>> NARRATOR: "THE AGENDA" WITH STEVE PAIKIN IS MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH GENEROUS PHILANTHROPIC CONTRIBUTIONS FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU. THANK YOU FOR SUPPORTING TVO'S JOURNALISM. >> STEVE: TONIGHT ON "THE AGENDA"... >> SPEAKER: I THINK THAT'S THE KEY THING WITH ENTREPRENEURS THEY ARE WORKING ON THE WORLD TO DO IT AND THE CHALLENGES REVOLVE AROUND SUSTAINABILITY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ALL OF THESE TECHNOLOGIES WE ARE CREATING ARE GOING TO SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS. >> STEVE: THEN LATER ON "THE AGENDA"... >> SPEAKER: MY PHILOSOPHY WHEN IT COMES TO GARDENING IS TO KEEP THINGS SIMPLE AND TO GIVE PEOPLE THOSE SUCCESSES THAT THEY CAN SEE RIGHT AWAY. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> STEVE: RECENT DATA SUGGESTS ENTREPRENEURSHIP IS IN DECLIN ACROSS CANADA. OUR PEOPLE CHOOSING TO MOVE AWAY FROM A SELF-EMPLOYED LIFESTYLE? AND WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES OF LOWER LEVELS OF SMALL BUSINESS OWNERSHIP ACROSS ONTARIO? LET'S DISCUSS THAT WITH JEFF COULL, HE'S EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE NORTHWESTERN ONTARIO INNOVATION CENTRE, NANCY WILSON, FOUNDER AND CEO OF THE CANADIAN WOMEN'S CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, NADIA LADAK, PROGRAM MARKETING OFFICER AT STARTUP CANADA AND CO-FOUNDER OF MARLOW, A MENSTRUAL PRODUCT COMPANY, AND JOEL BLIT, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF WATERLOO, AND A SENIOR FELLOW AT CIGI, THE CENTRE FOR INTERNATIONAL GOVERNANCE INNOVATION. IT'S GOOD TO SEE ALL OF YOU HERE AT TVO TONIGHT, EXTRA PROPS TO HIM WHO CAME FROM THUNDER BAY. THANK YOU FOR COMING JEFF. WE ARE SHELDON LET'S START WITH THIS, WITH THIS GRAPHIC OFF THE TOP LAST OCTOBER THE BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT BANK OF ONTARIO SAID AMONG OTHER THINGS CANADA HAS 100,000 FEWER ENTREPRENEURS TODAY THAN 20 YEARS AGO. IF YOU DO THE STATS ONLY 1.3 OF A THOUSAND CANADIANS START A BUSINESS IN THE YEAR 2022. THAT'S DOWN FROM THREE IN 1000 CANADIANS IN THE YEAR 2000. AND A THIRD OF NEW BUSINESSES CLOSE IN THE FIRST 5 YEARS. SOME DISQUIETING NUMBERS THERE. >> JEFF: I'M HAPPY THAT THERE ARE SOME NUMBERS THAT CAN BACK UP WHAT WE'VE BEEN FEELING ANECDOTALLY, ESPECIALLY IN NORTHWESTERN ONTARIO WITH THUNDER BAY AND WE SEE THAT JUST BASED OFF THE NUMBER OF ENTREPRENEURS COMING THROUGH OUR DOORS. AND THOSE NUMBERS ARE GREAT STARTING POINT BECAUSE IT'S A COMPLEX ISSUE. THERE'S A LOT OF NUANCE ESPECIALLY FOR SERVING ALL THESE COMMUNITIES SO EXCITING TO GET INTO IT. >> STEVE: WE WILL PICK IT ARE A PART. >> NANCY: THE BDC STUDY AND THE STATS THEY GIVE ARE ONLY TELLING HALF THE STORY. THERE STATS ARE BASED ON A NARROW DEFINITION OF ENTREPRENEURSHIP WHICH IS SELF-EMPLOYED PEOPLE WITH PAID EMPLOYEES SO EMPLOYERS ONLY. IF YOU LOOK AT SELF-EMPLOYED PEOPLE WITHOUT PAID EMPLOYEES OR SOLAR PRINTERS, THAT NUMBER IS ACTUALLY INCREASING OVER THE SAME PERIOD IT'S REALLY A QUESTION ON HOW WE ARE GETTING FOLKS FROM START UP TO FURTHER DOWN THE LINE IN THEIR BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT. >> STEVE: JOEL ALLOWING THAT IS THAT SOMETHING WE OUGHT TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT. >> JOEL: WE SHOULD DEFINITELY BE CONCERNED I THINK THAT'S A GOOD DISTINCTION, THERE ARE OTHER DISTINCTIONS WE CAN MAKE AS WELL, HOW MANY OF THESE ARE TECH STARTUPS AND HOW MANY HAVE IP? THERE'S LOTS OF DIFFERENT MEASURES THAT WE CAN LOOK AT BUT IT'S AN INTERESTING DATA, CERTAINLY WE ARE INTERESTED IN ENTREPRENEURIAL VENTURES THAT HIRE PEOPLE AND SO I THINK IT'S INTERESTING FOR SURE. >> STEVE: HOW DOES THE STUDY APPEAR TO YOU? >> NADIA: I THINK IT'S DEFINITELY A BIG ISSUE WE NEED TO ENCOURAGE MORE AND MORE PEOPLE GO INTO ENTREPRENEURSHIP BUT I THINK IT'S THE INTRAPRENEUR IS THAT WE ALREADY HAVE. ONE OF THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES IS A LACK OF ACCESS TO FUNDING AND ESPECIALLY AT THAT EARLIEST STAGE WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TRACTION, NEEDLE HAVE A LOT OF PROOF OF CONCEPT, HE CAN'T QUALIFY FOR THE FUNDING FROM TRADITIONAL BANKS OR FIRMS AND TO SUPPORT PEOPLE AT THEIR EARLIEST IN THEIR JOURNEY BECAUSE ONE OF THE STATS WAS THAT ONE THIRD OF THE BUSINESSES WILL FAIL IN THE FIRST 5 YEARS BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THOSE RESOURCES TO GO TO THAT GROSSED STAGE. >> STEVE: JEFF, IF A COUNTRY GENERALLY SPEAKING IS BECOMING LESS ENTREPRENEURIAL PLAY THAT OUT DOWN THE ROAD. WHAT DOES THAT LOOK 10 OR 20 YEARS FROM NOW? >> JEFF: IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS IN OUR ECONOMY NOW, 98 PERCENT OF OUR BUSINESSES ARE CONSIDERED SMALL BUSINESS, THAT'S UNDER 100 EMPLOYEES AND THEY ARE EMPLOYING CLOSE TO HALF OF OUR PRIVATE SECTOR WORKFORCE. AND THEY GENERATE OVER ONE THIRD OF OUR GDP, JUST OVER A THIRD AND SO ANY TYPE OF RISK HITTING THOSE COMMUNITIES, THOSE DRIVERS OF THOSE NUMBERS IS COULD POTENTIALLY HAVE A PROFOUND EFFECT. WE LOOK AT ONE SCENARIO WHERE WE SAY WE SHIFT THOSE NUMBERS A LITTLE BIT SO THAT SOME OF OUR GDP IS NO LONGER GENERATED BY THOSE SMALL BUSINESSES BECAUSE THEY NO LONGER EXIST, THAT'S GOING TO SHIFT TO OUR MEDIUM AND LARGE ENTERPRISES, THAT INCREASES OUR DEPENDENCY ON IT THOSE ORGANIZATIONS SO WE MIGHT LOSE 10,000 SMALL BUSINESSES THAT GDP IS NOW GENERATED BY A HANDFUL, THREE TO 5 LARGER BUSINESSES. IF ONE OF THOSE BUSINESSES EXITS OUR ECONOMY FOR WHATEVER REASON, IT COULD FAIL, OFFSHORE TO RELOCATE THE HEADQUARTERS, WE DON'T HAVE THAT DIVERSITY IN OUR ECONOMY, THAT RESILIENCY THAT WE WOULD'VE HAD IF WE'VE BEEN RELYING ON THOSE SMALL BUSINESSES TO GENERATE THOSE NUMBERS. >> STEVE: JOEL THIS IS PROBLEMATIC AND THE QUESTION OBVIOUSLY IS WISE IS IT HAPPENING? >> JOEL: IT'S HAPPENING FOR LOTS OF REASONS. LET ME FIRST SAY IT'S ABSOLUTELY PROBLEMATIC. AS LISTENING TO OUR FINANCIAL MINISTER, SHE WAS RIGHT AND SAID YOUNG PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AROUND HAVING THE OPPORTUNITIES OUR PARENTS DID AND HAVE TO ASK THE QUESTION, WHY? IT'S FUNDAMENTALLY BECAUSE OF THE PAST 5 DECADES OR SO WE'VE HAD A INNOVATION GAP, EQUITY GAP, AND THE WAY TO ADDRESS THAT IS BY HAVING CANADIANS DO BETTER WORK OR EFFICIENT WORK, CREATE BETTER PRODUCTS AND SERVICES OF HIGHER VALUE AND OF COURSE OUR BUSINESSES CAN DO IT BUT SO CAN OUR ENTREPRENEURS. THEY WILL BE A KEY FACTOR HERE AND WHAT REALLY WORRIES ME TOO ADD ON TOP OF THIS IS, WE ARE AT A VERY IMPORTANT MOMENT IN TIME WHERE AI IS ABOUT TO TRANSFORM OVER THE NEXT DECADE OUR ECONOMY AND SOCIETY AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE TECHNOLOGY OVER THE INTERNET WE HAD THESE GREAT COMPANIES LIKE AMAZON AROUND THE INTERNET. WE HAVE FACEBOOK, WE INVENTED A SOCIAL NETWORKS. THE SAME THING WILL HAPPENED AROUND AI. IT'S THE ONLY WAY THAT WE CAN HAVE SOME OF THESE FUTURE AMAZONS IS BUYING HAVE --BY HAVING LOTS OF ENTREPRENEURS, THIS IS MORE WORRYING NOW THAN EVER BEFORE. >> STEVE: JOEL SAYS THIS IS FROM A PROBLEM GOING BACK 5 DECADES BY HAVE TO PRESUME THAT COVID WAS A PARTICULAR SHOT IN THE RIBS TO THIS WHOLE ISSUE. IS THAT A FACT. >> NANCY: ABSOLUTELY, AND TO ME, THE IDEA OF CREATING MORE AMAZONS, MORE FACEBOOK'S ... THAT TO ME IS NOT NECESSARILY WHAT WE WANT. THERE'S ALL SORTS OF CONCERNS ABOUT FACEBOOK AND AMAZON. YOU KNOW, HAVING EVERYTHING, ALL OUR EGGS IN ONE BASKET I AGREE THAT AI IS THE NEW THING. BUT I THINK THAT THERE ARE SYSTEMIC ISSUES THAT ARE IN PLACE THAT PREVENT CERTAIN DEMOGRAPHICS FROM REALIZING THEIR VALUE. >> STEVE: LIKE WHAT? >> NANCY: LIKE ALL OUR SOCIAL SAFETY NET RIGHT NOW IN TERMS OF INCOME SUPPORT, MATERNITY LEAVE, ALL THESE OTHER THINGS ARE TIED TO TRADITIONAL EMPLOYMENT. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE WORKFORCE. AND WHEN THE GOVERNMENT CALLS FOR MORE WOMEN TO BECOME ENTREPRENEURS FOR EXAMPLE,, THERE IS NO POLICY SUPPORT, THERE'S NO INFRASTRUCTURE FOR THOSE WOMEN WHO BECOME ENTREPRENEURS AND THEN FALL INTO THE ONE THIRD THAT FAIL. SO THERE NEEDS TO BE I THINK FROM THE GOVERNMENT, IN ORDER TO BOOST ENTREPRENEURSHIP, THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME KIND OF POLICY INFRASTRUCTURE TO ACTUALLY SUPPORT THAT. >> STEVE: WE HAVE AN HONEST EXAMPLE HERE. YOU STARTED A BUSINESS. HOW YOU DO IT? >> NADIA: WE WERE TAKING A COURSE IN NORTHWESTERN IN THE BUSINESS SCHOOL AND I REMEMBER PROFESSORS TOLD US BY FINDING A PROBLEM YOU ARE PASSIONATE ABOUT SOLVING AND THAT'S THE KEY THING, THEY ARE WORKING ON THE ROPES TO DO IT AND THE CHALLENGES WE ARE FACING AROUND SUSTAINABILITY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ALL THESE TYPES OF TECHNOLOGIES THAT WE ARE CREATING ARE GOING TO SOLVE THE WORLDS PROBLEMS SO I THINK IN ADDITION TO THE ECONOMIC GROWTH AND OTHER POINTS WE TALK ABOUT, IT'S BEING ABLE TO SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS AND BRING SOME OF THESE TECHNOLOGIES TO MARKET. >> STEVE: SO YOU ARE LIVING THE MARKET OF AN ENTREPRENEUR AND NOW. YOU ARE A SMALL BUSINESS PERSON, ENTREPRENEUR, YOU DO NOT HAVE THE SECURITY OF SAY SOMEBODY WHO WORKS FOR THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO IN AN OFFICE JOB IN QUEENS PARK RIGHT? WHAT'S YOUR LIFE LIKE? >> NADIA: IT'S DEFINITELY HARD, A LOT OF CHALLENGES PEOPLE SAY YOU FACE THE HIGH TIDE AND LOWEST LOADS. SOMETIMES IN THE SAME DAY YOU'RE TRYING TO DO THINGS LIKE THIS WHERE YOU TALK ABOUT YOUR BUSINESS BUT ALSO TRACK TO MANAGE YOUR EMPLOYEES, INVENTORY, CASH FLOW. THERE'S LOTS OF ENTREPRENEURS ABOUT 70 PERCENT ACCORDING TO THE STUDY STRUGGLE WITH MENTAL HEALTH, WITH THESE TYPE OF CHALLENGES WHERE THEY NAVIGATE UPS AND DOWNS OF ENTREPRENEURSHIP SO STEFAN LAY HARD BUT YOU KNOW IT MAKES AN IMPACT ESPECIALLY IN MY SPACE WORKING ON MENSTRUAL HEALTH, TACKLING TAXI PERCENT OF THE POPULATION I WAKE UP EVERY DAY AND SOLVING THESE PROBLEMS AND MAKING AN IMPACT FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE. >> STEVE: WHERE DID YOU GO TO HIGH SCHOOL? AT DID YOU AT ANY POINT WHILE YOU ARE A STUDENT THINK TO YOURSELF OF COURSE I'M GOING TO BE AN ENTREPRENEUR? >> NADIA: DEFINITELY NOT IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT'S HOT ENOUGH AND HIGH SCHOOL I CAME TO A IMMIGRANT HOUSEHOLD AND THAT WASN'T A POTENTIAL CAREER PATH ALL MY PARENTS WANTED WAS ME TO GET THAT STABLE CORPORATE JOB AND I CAME HOME ONE DAY AND SAID I WILL QUIT THAT AND WORK ON THIS TAMPON BUSINESS THAT HAS NO FUNDING YET, NOTHING AVAILABLE BY THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO TEACH STUDENTS THAT IT CAN BE A CAREER PATH IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT ENCOURAGING STUDENTS TO BE ENTREPRENEURS BUT ENCOURAGING TO HIM THEM, --EMBRACING THE MINDSET WHERE IT'S OKAY TO FAIL AND OKAY TO HAVE LEARNING OPPORTUNITIES WHERE YOU CAN LEARN ABOUT TYPES OF AREAS A BUSINESS LIKE MARKETING, FINANCE, TO HAVE RESILIENCY WHETHER OR NOT THEY BECOME AN ENTREPRENEUR THEY HAVE PROBLEM SOLVING SKILLS INTO THE WORKFORCE AND THEY TRY TO SOLVE PROBLEMS NOT JUST ENCOURAGING MORE PEOPLE TO BECOME ENTREPRENEURS BUT EMBRACING THE SKILL SETS. >> STEVE: NOT YET YOU KNOW YOUR BIG PROBLEM? LACK OF ENERGY. IT'S THE WAY YOU APPROACH THE WORLD. I'M KIDDING. YOU JUST HEARD HER TALK ABOUT HIGH SCHOOL NOT YOU ARE IN THE POST SECONDARY SCHOOL, BY THAT TIME PEOPLE HAVE A SENSE OF WHAT THEY WANT TO BE. BUT WHAT ABOUT HER POINT ABOUT HIGH SCHOOL? DO WE PUT ENOUGH FOCUS THERE ON LETTING PEOPLE KNOW THAT ENTREPRENEURSHIP IS AN OPTION GOING FORWARD? >> JOEL: I THINK DEFINITELY THOUGHT AND THAT'S SUPER INSPIRING. I WAS SMILING AND SAYING THAT'S WHAT WE NEED WE NEED MORE NADIA AND OTHER COUNTRY. I THINK WE DO NEED TO START IN HIGH SCHOOL, WE NEED TO START PUTTING THAT THOUGHTS IN PEOPLE'S HEADS RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING THAT THIS IS A POSSIBILITY, WHAT IT COULD LOOK LIKE. THESE ARE THE OPPORTUNITIES AROUND IT. AND I KNOW YOU ASKED ME ABOUT HIGH SCHOOL I CAN TELL YOU ABOUT UNIVERSITY LEVEL. SO OUR APPROACH REALLY IS THAT IT SORT OF A PYRAMID AND SO IF WE WANT TO GET AS MANY ENTREPRENEURS COMING OUT OF WATERLOO AS POSSIBLE, THEN WE NEED TO REACH OUT TO AS MANY STUDENTS AS POSSIBLE SO WE ARE REACHING OUT TO MORE THAN 1000 STUDENTS EVERY YEAR. INVOLVING THEM IN SOME DEGREE TRYING TO GET THEM THINKING INTO PARTNERSHIP. HAD WE PICK THOSE PEOPLE? THEN YOU GO TO THE NEXT STEP OF THE PYRAMID AND GET THEM THINKING ABOUT OKAY WHAT ARE THE BIG PROBLEMS IN THE WORLD? AND HOW DO YOU TRY AND SOLVE THOSE? BUT THINK ABOUT PROBLEMS AND GET THEM ENGAGED AND THEN YOU CAN THINK OKAY, HOW DO WE SOLVE THOSE PROBLEMS, SUPPORT THEM THROUGH IT, GIVE THEM THE BUSINESS ACUMEN, MENTORSHIP AND THEN FUNDING ET CETERA. THESE NUMBERS HE MENTIONED EARLIER, WE HAVE AN INCREASE IN ENTREPRENEURSHIP OVERALL. WE DOUBLED FROM 2022 TO 2023 MORE THAN DOUBLED THE NUMBER OF STUDENT TEAMS, I THINK SOME 500 OR OVER 500 AND IT QUINTUPLED SINCE THE PANDEMIC. >> STEVE: HERE'S THE THING THOUGH YOU TALK ABOUT A PYRAMID WHICH OF COURSE HAS A BIG BASS AT THE BOTTOM BUT ULTIMATELY THERE'S LOTS OF FAILURE ON THE WAY TO THE POINT BY THE TIME YOU GET TO THE TOP, IT'S A SMALL NUMBER. DON'T YOU REALLY WANT TO CREATE A SQUARE AS OPPOSED TO RECKON --RECTANGLE? >> JOEL: INDEED IT'S HARD TO CREATE THAT SQUARE. PART OF THAT IS LOTS OF FAILURE AND PULLING OUT AND THAT'S WE HAVE TO MAKE A BASE AS WIDE. >> STEVE: AS POSSIBLE TELL US JEFF WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW AS A YOUNG ENTREPRENEUR TO HAVE SUCCESS LATER IN LIFE? >> JEFF: GREAT QUESTION. I THINK AS JOEL WAS MENTIONING, ONE OF THE BIG LESSONS IS THAT FAILURE IS NOT A BAD THING. IT'S QUITTING THAT IS THE BAD THING SO YOU ARE GOING TO LEARN THE MOST FROM YOUR FAILURES OR THE THINGS THAT DON'T GO WELL OR AS WELL AS YOU THOUGHT THEY WOULD BE WHEN YOU ARE LOOKING TO ROSE COLOURED GLASSES THINKING YOU'D CHANGE THE WORLD ON DAY ONE. THAT WOULD BE MY NUMBER ONE MESSAGE TO PEOPLE THAT WHEN YOU COME THROUGH OUR DOORS IS EVEN IF IDEA NUMBER ONE DOESN'T WORK, BEING AN ENTREPRENEUR, IT'S A MINDSET IT'S LIKE. >> STEVE: A LIFESTYLE AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOT FAILING OR NOT TRYING HARD ENOUGH. >> JEFF: WHEN YOU FAIL TRY TO FIND OUT WHAT I LEARNED FROM THIS, HOW CAN I PICK FOR, WHAT DO I NEED TO TWEAK SO THAT WAY THE NEXT BUSINESS I LOOK TO GET STARTED IN, I HAVE A MUCH HIGHER LIKELIHOOD OF SUCCESS. >> STEVE: LET CIRCLE BACK TO SOMETHING YOUSE SAID A SECOND AGO, IT'S ENDED LIKE YOU ARE SAYING WOMEN HAVE UNIQUE PROBLEMS DISTINCTIVE FROM EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE MARKETPLACE IN TERMS OF TRYING TO MAKE THIS A LIFE THAT WORKS. BUILD ON THAT IF HE WOULD WHAT YOU MEAN? >> NANCY: 80 PERCENT OF WOMEN IDENTIFY ENTREPRENEURS FALL INTO THE CATEGORY OF SELF-EMPLOYED WITHOUT EMPLOYEES. AND A BIG REASON FOR THAT IS THE ISSUE OF ACCESS TO CAPITAL. THERE ARE MAJOR PROBLEMS WITH ACCESSING FINANCING FROM LENDERS, FROM THE VC AND ANGEL MARKET, IN ORDER TO --PRIMARILY CAPITALIZE. I'M SURE YOU CAN SPEAK TO THAT. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TWO TO 4 PERCENT OF THE ENTIRE VC INVESTMENT DOLLARS GO. TO WOMEN TWO TO 4 PERCENT. SO IT'S NOT YOU KNOW GETTING THERE, IT'S DRAMATIC. >> STEVE: LET ME JUMP IN ON THAT. IS THE MARKETPLACE SEXIST? WHAT'S THE STORY THERE? >> NANCY: THERE'S A BUNCH OF THINGS HAPPENING, THERE ARE CERTAINLY SYSTEMIC SECTIONS IN POLICY THAT'S BUILT INTO THAT CAN BE IMPROVED. I HAVE CERTAINLY LOTS OF IDEAS ABOUT THAT, THAT'S MY JOB TO INTERACT WITH THE GOVERNMENT, ADVOCATE ON BEHALF OF OUR MEMBERS. HOWEVER THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER THINGS. THERE'S GENDER NORMS THAT IMPACT HOW PEOPLE EVALUATE ENTREPRENEURS, AND THERE IS RESEARCH ABOUT UNCONSCIOUS BIAS. SO A PIECE OF RESEARCH FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE VENTURE CAPITALISTS MALE AND FEMALE VENTURE CAPITALISTS TEND TO ASK, WOMEN AND MEN FOUNDERS DIFFERENT KINDS OF QUESTIONS AND THAT IS SHOWN TO IMPACT THE LIKELIHOOD OF ACTUALLY GIVING THEM FUNDING AND HOW MUCH FUNDING THEY GET. >> STEVE: I DON'T WANT TO TAKE ANYTHING AWAY FROM YOU FROM THAT ARGUMENT THAT YOU ARE MAKING HOWEVER IT MY HUNCH IS HE'S GOING TO MAKE THE SAME KIND OF ARGUMENT IN SAYING THAT IT'S EASIER TO BE A WOMAN IN TORONTO TRYING TO MAKE A LIFE HERE FOR YOUR SELF IN THIS AREA TRY AND DO IT IN THUNDER BAY. MI ONTO SOMETHING HERE IS IT EVEN HARDER IN RURAL AND NORTHERN ONTARIO? >> JEFF: SURE BEING LOCATED IN A REMOTE AREA OR SMALLER CITY OUTSIDE OF SOUTHERN ONTARIO PRESENTS ITS OWN UNIQUE CHALLENGES FOR SURE. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE MAY NOT CONSIDER IS ANY TYPE OF PROGRAMMING OR SUPPORTS THAT VARIOUS LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT MIGHT OFFER, IF THEY OFFER CENTRALIZED OUT OF TORONTO OR OTTAWA TYPICALLY THOSE TWO CENTRES, LOTS OF PEOPLE IN THE NORTH DON'T HAVE HIGH-SPEED INTERNET. SO HOW DO YOU EXPECT THEM TO CONNECT TO A RESOURCE TO LEARN ABOUT THE PROGRAM TO ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT THE APPLICATION OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT WHEN THEY CAN'T DO A VIDEO CALL? >> STEVE: CAN'T EVEN GET TO FIRST BASE HERE. >> JEFF: EXACTLY. AND THE CULTURE AND MOST NORTHERN COMMUNITIES AS WELL, IT'S ALL ABOUT FACE-TO-FACE CONVERSATIONS. IT'S ABOUT BEING WHERE THE ENTREPRENEUR IS, MEETING THEM ON THEIR LEVEL USING THEIR LANGUAGE WITH A PROGRAM THAT IS DESIGNED FOR THEM. AND THAT'S SORT OF UNIVERSAL AS YOU ACCESS TO DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES, I DON'T THINK I'M SAYING ANYTHING TOO SHOCKING BUT IN THE CONTEXT OF THE NORTH THEY WANT TO MEET WITH SOMEONE WHO LIVES IN THE NORTH, WHO UNDERSTANDS THE WAY THINGS OPERATE IN THE NORTH, THE SCALE OF THE BUSINESSES IN THE NORTH THAT USES LANGUAGE FROM THE NORTH. THE GREAT EXAMPLE IS YOU HEAR PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT FOUNDER SUCCESS OR VENTURE SUCCESS. THERE'S NOT AN ENTREPRENEUR EVER OUT OF NORTHWESTERN ONTARIO THAT HAS DESCRIBED HIMSELF AS A FOUNDER OR BUSINESS AS A VENTURE, SO WHEN SOMEBODY COMES AND APPROACHES THEM AND SAYS I'M FROM THIS PERSON'S SUCCESS TEAM THAT DOESN'T APPLY TO ME. I'M NOT A FOUNDER. THEY ARE RELUCTANT TO EVEN USE THE WORD ENTREPRENEUR TO INSIDE --A SIGN THAT LABEL. BUT THEY CALL THEMSELVES A FOUNDER. THOSE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE ARE DELIVERING PROGRAMMING THAT IS DESIGNED FOR THEM USING LANGUAGE FOR THEM BY PEOPLE IN OF THE REGION IN ORDER TO HAVE THEM SUBSCRIBE AND APPLY AND TAKE ADVANTAGE. >> STEVE: WHERE ARE YOU FROM ORIGINALLY? >> JEFF: THUNDER BAY. I LEFT FOR A WHILE BUT I WENT BACK. IT SPEAKS VOLUMES. I WAS DOWN IN TORONTO FOR ABOUT A DECADE. AND I DECIDED THAT THAT LIFESTYLE WASN'T FOR ME. SO I WENT BACK TO THUNDER BAY ABOUT 6 YEARS AGO, I DID MY OWN ENTREPRENEURIAL THING, IT DIDN'T WORK OUT, I'M ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHERE IT DIDN'T WORK OUT FOR WHEN I FOUND MY NICHE NOW SUPPORTING OTHER PEOPLE. >> STEVE: GOOD FOR YOU. TELL ME ABOUT YOUR REAL-LIFE EXAMPLE HERE HERE SO I WENT TO TOLLE --CONTINUE TO MIND THIS. HOW MUCH MONEY DID YOU DETERMINE YOU NEEDED TO GET YOUR? BUSINESS STARTED A. >> NADIA: LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE BUT TAMPONS AND MENSTRUAL PRODUCTS HAVE TO DO A LOT OF R&D, GO THROUGH HEALTH CANADA APPROVAL SO I NEEDED A LOT OF MONEY UPFRONT TO START THAT THEN HAVE TO. >> STEVE: HOW MUCH? >> JOEL: $1 MILLION HOW. >> STEVE: OLD WERE YOU WHEN YOU STARTED THIS. >> JOEL: IT WAS DIFFICULT WITH 22 PERCENT OF VENTURE CAPITAL GOING TO ENTRE BURNERS AND PEOPLE OF COLOUR THAT OUR WOMEN ARE .4 PERCENT. IT'S EVEN WORSE. I FOUND CANADA HAS BEEN VERY RISK-AVERSE WHEN IT COMES TO RAISING CAPITAL, IT'S VERY VERY HARD AT THE EARLY STAGE ENTREPRENEUR TO RAISE MONEY IN CANADA SO I WENT TO THE US AND RAISED A LOT OF INVESTMENT FROM US INVESTORS WHO ARE MORE WILLING TO TAKE BIG RISKS TO FUND VENTURE WITHOUT THAT TRACTION. >> STEVE: HOW DOES A 22-YEAR-OLD KNOW WHERE TO GO OR WHO TO TALK TO IN THE US TO EVEN GET STARTED? >> JOEL: THERE'S LOTS OF SUPPORT NETWORKS, PLACES LIKE THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, START UP CANADA, ACCELERATOR PROGRAMS THROUGH UNIVERSITIES DEFINITELY HELP, WE'VE GOT INNOVATORS, NEXT 36, ALL THESE ACCELERATORS AND TO SUPPORT NETWORKS ARE KEY BECAUSE THEY TAUGHT US HOW TO CONNECT US TO MENTORS, AND THERE'S LOTS OF PITCH COMPETITIONS, AND THAT WAS OUR ENTRY POINT IN THAT ECOSYSTEM AND WE GOT CONNECTED TO DIFFERENT PLAYERS IN THE ENTREPRENEUR. >> STEVE: I HEAR THAT THERE BE DRAGONS IN YOUR PAST AS WELL. >> JOEL: THAT'S TRUE I DID WAS ON DEN AS WELL. IT WAS EXCITING AND THE EXPOSURE YOU GOT FROM GOING ON THE SHOW CONNECTING WITH OTHER PEOPLE AND MORE PEOPLE LEARNING ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT'S HARD RUNNING A SMALL BUSINESS COMPETING WITH SOME OF THE BIG COMPETITORS ESPECIALLY IN OUR SPACE GOING A GLANCE LARGE COMPANIES, THAT HAVE SUPPORTS OF THE NETWORK AND ECOSYSTEM, TO PROPEL THESE BUSINESSES FORWARD. WE STILL HAVE THAT MILLION DOLLARS, WE ARE STILL USING IT, WE HAVE A SECOND ROUND OF FUNDING SO BEING ABLE TO GROW IT BECOMES EASIER AND EASIER TO RAISE MONEY BUT DEFINITELY THAT EARLY STAGE WHERE WE HAD AN EARLY PRODUCT, BARELY ANY PROOF OF CONCEPT IT WAS A DIFFICULT TIME. >> STEVE: THAT'S A HELLUVA STORY. >> JOEL: I AGREE I WANT TO HEAR MORE ABOUT THE STORY. >> STEVE: BUT THIS SOUNDS A WHILE ... IT SOUNDS TOO UNIQUE IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. WE NEED MORE OF THIS HAPPENING RIGHT, HOW DO WE MAKE SURE MORE OF THIS HAPPENS? >> JOEL: AGAIN, I THINK IT'S LETTING 1000 FLOWERS BLOOM. IF YOU WANT TO ENCOURAGE AS MUCH OF IT AS POSSIBLE, THE PYRAMID I WAS TALKING ABOUT, BUT LET ME GO TO A POINT THAT NOT YET MENTIONED, IT'S HARD TO GET TO THAT EARLY STAGE INVESTMENT AND I THINK I'VE SEEN THAT IN WATERLOO. I'M A PROFESSOR I HAVE MY OPINIONS. >> STEVE: IT'S LIKE THAT JOEL. >> JOEL: JUST IN THAT ECOSYSTEM, IT'S HARD TO SEPARATE BUT WATERLOO IS GREAT, THE UNIVERSITY HAS REALIZED AND REALIZED THERE IS A GAP AND INVENTORS ARE STARTING TO GROW,. >> STEVE: HOW MUCH WILL BE IN THE FUND? >> JOEL: I DON'T KNOW IN THE EXACT NUMBER. BUT IT'S PRETTY SIGNIFICANT. I THINK THAT THE UNIVERSITY ENDOWMENT IS INVESTING IN IT AND THERE'S LOTS OF EXTERNAL INVESTORS. >> STEVE: GOVERNMENT OBVIOUSLY HAS A ROLE TO PLAY HAS NANCY MENTIONED AS WELL. GOVERNMENTS DO BRING FORWARD PROGRAMS THEY ARE TRYING TO DO VARIOUS THINGS. ARE THEY DOING ENOUGH? >> JOEL: I MEAN, THEY CAN ALWAYS DO MORE. LOOK, AGAIN WE ARE AT A SPECIFIC MOMENT IN TIME WHERE WITH AI, EVERYTHING IS ABOUT TO CHANGE. I THINK THE ENTREPRENEURS WILL BE DRIVING THAT REINVENTION OF SO MANY MYSTERIES AND WE NEED TO DOUBLE DOWN. WE SOLVED $82.4 BILLION INVESTMENT IN THE AI, I THINK WHAT WE SEE HERE IS A LOT MORE INVESTMENT IN BRINGING UP LITERACY AROUND AI AND INVESTING IN ENTREPRENEURSHIP AND TECHNOLOGY AND THAT SORT OF THING. ABSOLUTELY AT THIS POINT IN TIME. >> STEVE: WOULD YOU GET? GOVERNMENT. >> JEFF: GRANTS WE. >> NANCY: DID BUT I THINK THE BIG THING IS LACK OF AWARENESS, THERE OF COURSE ENTREPRENEURS THAT DON'T KNOW HOW TO NAVIGATE THROUGH GOVERNMENT FUNDING SO ALSO WITH STARTUP CANADA ONE OF THE PROGRAMS WE HAVE IS A START UP GOVERNMENT WHERE WE BRING ENTREPRENEURS AND HOST ROUNDTABLES WITH GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS SO THEY CAN WALK THROUGH THE TYPES OF FUNDING ARE AVAILABLE, WE TRIED TO GIVE A VOICE TO GOVERNMENT, BUT HAVING MORE PROGRAMS LIKE THAT WHERE WE CAN INTERACT WITH GOVERNMENT LEADERS, OR PEOPLE IN THE TRENCHES WHO ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO SHARE WHAT'S HAPPENING ON THE GROUND. I THINK MORE PROGRAMS LIKE THAT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL. >> STEVE: ANOTHER ONE CALLED START UP, YOU INVOLVED WITHOUT? >> JEFF: SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES ARE INVOLVED WITH IT, NOT DIRECTLY IN IT BUT THE STARTUP USES THE PROGRAM THAT'S THERE IN THEORY I WILL SAY IT'S IN THERE TO ATTRACT ENTREPRENEURS THAT CAN ARE WILLING AND ABLE TO CREATE BUSINESSES THAT CAN COMPETE ON A GLOBAL SCALE. AND I USE THAT TERM DOUBLE SCALE TAKEN DIRECTLY FROM THE IRC SEAT WEBSITE WHO ADMINISTER THE PROGRAM. UNFORTUNATELY, THAT PROGRAM LEADTIME FOR APPROVAL IS 37 MONTHS RIGHT NOW. IT'S OVER THREE YEARS. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU KNOW MANY ENTREPRENEURS BUT THEY ARE NOT THAT PATIENT. WHEN THEY ARE READY TO GO THEY WANT TO LAUNCH THEIR BUSINESS RIGHT AWAY AND ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE SOMEONE WHO HAS THE MINDSET OF I'M GOING TO GROW A GLOBAL COMPANY, THEY ARE NOT WAITING AROUND THREE YEARS TO LAND IN WHATEVER COUNTRY THEY WANT TO BE IN TO START THEIR BUSINESS. THEY ARE READY TO GO, THEY WILL FIND AN EASIER PATH SOMEWHERE ELSE TO GO TO START THAT GLOBAL COMPETITIVE BUSINESS. SO THIS IS PURELY MY OPINION, THOSE LEADTIMES NEED TO--COME BY COME DOWN BY 20 YEARS --20 PERCENT THAT ANSWER IS MONEY. AND I KNOW THERE IS... THERE HAS BEEN AN INCREASE RESOURCES AND THINGS LIKE THAT GIVEN TO THE PEOPLE ADMINISTERING THESE PROGRAMS, BUT THE LEAD TIME HASN'T BUDGED. SO IS IT MORE RESOURCES? IS IT TOO MUCH RED TAPE OR BUREAUCRACY IN THE APPROVAL PROCESS BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE ADMINISTERING IT? WE SEE IT THEY ARE DOING THE FINAL APPROVAL MAYBE THERE'S OPPORTUNITIES IN THERE. IT'S NOT LIKE WE ARE NOT DEEPLY INVOLVED IN THAT PROGRAM. >> NANCY: I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF ROOM FOR CHANGES IN PROGRAM DESIGN. I THINK THE WAY THE GOVERNMENT DESIGNS OF THEIR PROGRAMS FOR IS A BIT BACKWARDS. >> STEVE: HANG ON THERE, I GOT IT HERE SOMEWHERE, THEY DID HAVE A PROGRAM DIRECTLY SPECIFICALLY WOMEN ENTREPRENEURSHIP STRATEGY FOR 2018 TO 2025. OKAY, SO THAT SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD FIND FAVOUR WITH. >> NANCY: THAT'S GREAT BUT THE WOMEN'S ENTREPRENEURSHIP STRATEGY HAS DONE A LOT OF GREAT THINGS. I THINK THEY THEIR STARTING POINT WAS WITH A PROBLEM RIGHT OFF THE BAT THAT THE STATED GOAL OF THE WOMEN'S ENTREPRENEURSHIP STRATEGY WAS TO DOUBLE THE NUMBER OF WOMEN ENTREPRENEURS FROM 2018 TO 2025. THAT IS NOT GOING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM. WOMEN ENTREPRENEURS HAVE ISSUES IN GROWING THEIR BUSINESSES. THEY ARE CHRONICALLY UNDERCAPITALIZED BEAT AS I SAID, THEY HAVE THESE OTHER POLICY ISSUES THAT ARE BARRIERS TO THER SUCCESS. DOUBLING THE NUMBER OF THEM IS REALLY JUST CREATING MORE STRUGGLING BUSINESSES, TRYING TO GET ACCESS TO THE SAME CAPITAL. >> STEVE: I'VE HEARD WOMEN AT THE PAST SAY HOW MY SUPPOSED TO GO OUT AND DO THE THINGS I NEED TO DO IN ORDER TO GROW WHITE BUSINESS, BE ENTREPRENEURIAL FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN CHILDCARE IS STILL AN ISSUE IN MY LIFE. OKAY WE'VE THEORETICALLY GOT 10-DOLLAR A DAY CHILDCARE NOW. >> NANCY: THEORETICALLY ABSOLUTELY. I'M NOT TRYING TO RACE AGAINST OTHER CHALLENGES AND BARRIERS AND TO SAY, WOMEN ARE THE MOST HARD DONE BY. I'M TRENT TO SAY THERE ARE CHALLENGES AND BARRIERS THAT ARE UNIQUE TO WOMEN IDENTIFIED ENTREPRENEURS, RURAL AND NORTHERN ENTREPRENEURS, RACIALIZED, BLACK, INDIGENOUS ENTREPRENEURS. THOSE UNIQUE CHALLENGES NEED TO BE ADDRESSED. SYSTEMIC CHALLENGES AND BARRIERS NEED SYSTEMIC SOLUTIONS. IN ORDER FOR THEM TO BE OVERCOME. >> STEVE: OKAY CAN I TELL YOU A LITTLE JOKE HERE? THIS IS A DEAD JOKE FORGIVE ME BUT I THINK I'M OLDER THAN EVERYONE HERE, THIS WAS A WHILE AGO, THERE USED TO BE A JOKE THAT YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU START A SMALL BUSINESS IN CANADA? YOU START A LARGE ONE AND WAIT A LITTLE WHILE. YOU LAUGH. THAT WAS A GENUINE LAUGH. JEFF TAKE THIS ON, WHITE SHOULD PEOPLE THINK ABOUT STARTING THEIR OWN BUSINESS WHEN BASICALLY WE'VE HEARD AROUND THIS TABLE TONIGHT THAT IT'S REALLY HARD AND THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF FAILURE AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT MIGHT ALL BE FOR NOT. >> JEFF: WHEN YOU FRAME IT UP THAT WAY... IT DOESN'T SOUND OF THAT ROSY. BUT HONESTLY IT GOES BACK TO WHAT I WAS SAYING EARLIER ABOUT BEING AN ENTREPRENEUR IS A MINDSET AND A LIFESTYLE. THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE JUST DRIVEN TO DO THAT. UNFORTUNATELY, WE ARE PUTTING IN A LOT OF BARRIERS THAT MIGHT REDUCE THEIR CHANCES OF SUCCESS. SO WHEN WE HAVE A LOT OF COLLEGE OR UNIVERSITY GRADUATES THAT COME TO OUR DOOR AND THINGS LIKE THAT THEY ARE THINKING ABOUT STARTING A BUSINESS BUT THEY GET PULLED AWAY AND THIS IS NOT TO DISPARAGE ANYONE BUT THEY CAN GO WORK AT WALMART OR MAKE CLOSE TO 6 FIGURES AS A MANAGER NOWADAYS STRAIGHT OUT OF COLLEGE OR UNIVERSITY, THAT'S PRETTY DARN ENTICING. GIVEN THAT STRONG LABOUR MARKET WE HAVE NOW WITH MORE UNEMPLOYMENT SO SOMETIMES MAKING THAT ARGUMENT IS REALLY DIFFICULT. BUT I THINK IF YOU HAVE SOMEBODY THERE LIKE IN YOUR STARTUP SUPPORT AND THINGS LIKE THAT, I THINK HELPING THEM NAVIGATE THAT PATHWAY THAT THEY CAN TAKE TO BE SUCCESSFUL AND TO SHOW THEM THAT THIS IS GREAT CAN MAKE 6 FIGURES YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO BUILD SOMETHING SPECIAL AND HERE'S THE PATHWAY YOU CAN TAKE TO DO THAT. IF YOU HAVE THAT SORT OF ENABLEMENT FOR SOME OF OUR YOUNGER ENTREPRENEURS, I THINK THAT'S A REAL PATHWAY TO SUCCESS. >> STEVE: YOU REMEMBER THE KIDS HE WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL WITH? HOW MANY WOULD YOU SAY WOULD WENT INTO ENTREPRENEURSHIP. >> NADIA: I THINK I'M PRETTY MUCH THE ONLY ONE. >> STEVE: ARE YOU MAKING MONEY YET? >> NADIA: WE DIDN'T PAY OURSELVES FOR THE FIRST YEAR BUT NOW WE CAN. I THINK BEYOND THE FINANCIAL OPPORTUNITY JUST IMPACT, WHAT OTHER PERSON ON THEIR CAREER CAN WAKE UP AND KNOW THEY ARE MAKING A DIFFERENCE FOR SO MANY PEOPLE THE TYPE OF REVIEWS WE GET BECAUSE OF PEOPLE WHO ARE USING OUR PRODUCT AND ESTATE WE ARE CHANGING THEIR LIFE IT'S MORE COMFORTABLE I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD BE ABLE TO DO THAT AT SUCH A YOUNG AGE AND BEING ABLE TO MEET OTHER PEOPLE IN THE SYSTEM IT'S SO INSPIRING. I MET THE FOUNDER OF STARBUCKS AND COOL PEOPLE AND CHANGING THE WORLD. I THINK THAT'S THE BIGGEST PART, GROWING YOUR NETWORK AND MAKING AN IMPACT FOR SO MANY PEOPLE. >> STEVE: THE GUY FROM STARBUCKS YOU MET HIM? >> NADIA: THROUGH OUR ACCELERATOR PROGRAM THEY ALWAYS BROUGHT IN COOL GUEST SPEAKERS AND ENTREPRENEURS AND I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE NICEST PARTS, SIT WHAT YOU WANT TO GIVE BACK AND GET ADVICE AND GROW THE NEXT-GENERATION OF ENTREPRENEURS. >> STEVE: TELL ME WHAT TO MIND MY OWN BUSINESS IF THIS ISN'T MY OWN BUSINESS, WHAT ARE YOUR REVENUES TODAY. >> NADIA: WE ARE MAKING REVENUE FIGURES, WE HAVE BEEN GROWING SO FAR. >> STEVE: 10 YEARS FROM NOW READY WANT TO BE. >> NADIA: WE WANT TO BE A GLOBAL RANT, WE HAVE 8 SLATE OF PRODUCTS, AND FOR THOSE WHO CAN'T HAVE ACCESS. >> STEVE: I HAVE NO DOUBT SHE'S GOING TO DO IT. I HAVE NO DOUBT. >> NADIA: BOTH CANADA AND US. GLOBAL. >> STEVE: MR. DIRECTOR CAN I HAVE A WIDE SHOT HERE SO I CAN THANK ALL OF YOU FOR COMING FROM NEAR AND FAR TO JOIN US AT OUR TABLE AT TVO TONIGHT. MANY THANKS. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> JEYAN: JUST NORTH OF TORONTO LIES THE REMAINS OF A GREAT SHIPPING CANAL THAT WAS NEVER COMPLETED. CONTRIBUTOR WARREN SCHLOTE BRINGS US THIS STORY FROM THE RUINS OF THE NEWMARKET GHOST CANAL. THIS MAY HAVE BEEN THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL WATERWAY IN THE 20th CENTURY, THIS IS IN ONTARIO OUR STORY BEGINS WITH A POLITICAL SCHEME I WAIT TO BRING JOBS IN THE AREA BUT IN THE END IT WOULD BE POLITICS THAT WOULD SINK THIS VERY PROJECT. WELCOME TO NEWMARKET GHOST CANAL. THESE CONCRETE WALLS WOULD HAVE BEEN THE FIRST WALK ONTO THE HOLLAND RIVER DIVISION THE IDEA CAME FROM A FEDERAL POLITICIAN SIR WILLIAM LOCKE. HE REPRESENTED THE RIDING OF NORTH YORK. HE THOUGHT THAT BARGES COULD USE THE HOLLAND RIVER AND SERVICE INDUSTRIES THAT WOULD HELP BRING TO NEWMARKET. A QUICK ASIDE AN IMPORTANT FIRST NATION ROUTE HAS BEEN HERE SINCE THAI MEMORIAL. I THINK IT'S WORTH NOTING THAT AT THIS TIME CANALS WERE ALREADY BECOMING OBSOLETE. AND THIS IS MAINLY BECAUSE OF THE GROWTH OF RAILWAYS. ACCORDING TO JAMES T ANGUS, HE BELIEVED THAT A PUBLIC CANAL SYSTEM WOULD CREATE COMPETITION FOR ROYAL FREIGHT AND KEEP SHIPPING COSTS LOW. IN SEPTEMBER OF 1904 HE WENT ALL IN ON HIS CANAL PLAN. THAT TIMING SEEMED A RIGHT TO TURN THE HOLLAND RIVER INTO A CANAL. THE WATERWAY INCREASED ITS SHIPPING PRICES MEANTIME COME THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT --THE HOLLAND RIVER IT WOULD BECOME MISSION OF THAT ROUTE. >> SPEAKER: I'M RICHARD MCLEOD AND MOST PEOPLE KNOW ME AROUND HERE IS THE HISTORY HOUND. IT CAUSED SHIPPING THROUGH RAIL WAS EXCESSIVE. WE HAD A NUMBER OF MALES AND A NUMBER OF INDUSTRIES WHICH WERE DEPENDENT UPON THEIR ABILITY TO BRING IN SUPPLIES. WE WERE SITTING NEXT TO A NATURAL WATERWAY WHICH EXTENDED ALL THE WAY UP TO LAKE SIMCOE. IT WAS ONLY LOGICAL WE WOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT. >> WARREN: ON A POLITICAL LEVEL OF TROUBLE, PUT --WITH THE LAST ELECTION COMING UP IN THE NEXT TWO MONTHS. THE LIBERALS WOULD END UP WINNING THAT ELECTION PARTLY ON THE STRENGTH OF THE CANAL. LOCKE HIRED AN ENGINEER TO SEE IF THE IDEA WOULD WORK. THE REPORT CAME BACK WITH A DEFINITE MAYBE. THERE WAS JUST ONE THING THAT WASN'T YET CERTAIN. WITH THE CANAL HAVE ENOUGH WATER TO KEEP A DURING THE SUMMER? WATER SHORTAGES WEREN'T ON WORD OF WITH OTHER PROJECTS IN THE AREA THE WATERWAY FACED SHORTAGES AND THEY'RE STILL A NETWORK OF RESERVOIRS MEANT TO KEEP THE LEVELS CONSISTENT TO THIS DAY. HOWEVER, THIS CANAL OPPONENTS MADE IT THERE RALLYING CRY. LIBERALS WERE TRYING TO BUILD A CANAL THAT DIDN'T HAVE ANY WATER. IN FOLLOWING YEARS THE MOTORS STARTED LIKING THE CONCERT WAS MORE AND MORE. NEW LOCKE KNEW THAT BUILDING THE CANAL COULD HELP THE LIBERALS HOLD ONTO THEIR SEAT. HE RECENTLY STEPPED DOWN AS MP BUT STAYED ACTIVE BEHIND THE SCENES. SOON LOCKE AND HIS --GOT THE CANAL STARTED BUT POLITICS WOULD COME BACK AGAINST THE PROJECT. REMEMBER HOW HE HATED RAILWAYS? IT SEEMS HE WAS FAIRLY OPEN ABOUT THAT DISLIKE. HE WOULD SOMETIMES GO AS FAR AS INTERFERING WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF RAILWAYS AND CANALS. EVENTUALLY THE LEADERSHIP OF THAT DEPARTMENT CHANGED AND TO RAIL MEN STARTED OVERSEEING THE CANAL PROJECT. YES, THOSE TWO RAILWAY MEND REMEMBERED HOW LOCKWOOD SCHEME AGAINST THEIR RAILWAYS AND SO THEY DECIDED TO GET EVEN BY CHANGING THE ENGINEER'S PLAN WAS FOR THE NEWMARKET CANAL. THEY THOUGHT THEY COULD MAKE IT SO RIDICULOUS THAT IT WOULD NEVER BE APPROVED. SOON IT WAS MASSIVELY OVERENGINEERED AND TO THE COST ESTIMATES HAD ALMOST TRIPLED. BUT THE LIBERALS APPROVED THE ABSURD NEW PLANS ANYWAYS. ALES WORTH, HIS REPLACEMENT ALSO SAW THE CANAL AS KEY TO HIS REELECTION. BY 1908 WITH ANOTHER ELECTION COMING CONSTRUCTION WAS WELL UNDERWAY. ALES WORTH PUT OUT A CONTRACT TO BUILD THESE LOCKS ON THAT RIVER, IT WENT TO A LIBERAL SUPPORTER. COME 1909, THE THIRD BLOCK WAS DUG OUT BUT AS CONSTRUCTION MOVED FASTER MORE QUESTIONS CAME UP ABOUT THAT PROJECT. THE CANAL BECAME THE BUT OF MANY JOKES MOSTLY ABOUT ITS WATER SUPPLY AND CONSERVATIVE LEADING NEWSPAPERS TORE INTO THE IDEA. THE WATER SUPPLY QUESTION HAD BEEN ONE OF THE EASIEST TARGETS AGAINST THE NEWMARKET CANAL. EVEN TODAY, MANY HISTORICAL ACCOUNTS FOCUS ON THIS RECORDED LACK OF WATER SOME OF IT CALLED IT LOCKE'S MADNESS, A PLOY BY OTHERWISE A SUCCESSFUL AND WELL-LIKED POLITICIAN. BUT JUST HOW BAD WAS THIS SO-CALLED LACK OF WATER? AUTHOR ETHEL WROTE THEY STUDIED THAT RIVER PREVIOUSLY AND DECADES EARLIER THEY ENDORSED THE IDEA OF A CANAL. NOW, MCLEOD IS CHALLENGING THOSE POPULAR TELLINGS OF THIS STORY. >> SPEAKER: SIR WILLIAM KNEW LOCKE IS A GUY AND HE DESERVES TO DECIDE TO ATTACK THAT PROJECT AND SORT OF UNDERMINE ALL THIS POPULARITY HE HAD GAINED. ONE THING THAT WAS WAS NOT ENOUGH WATER. THE CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT WENT TO THE --SAID THERE WAS NO RIVERS FEEDING IT, THEY RESPONDED BY SAYING IT'S ON A APPROXIMATELY 20-MILE LONG STRING OF ARTESIAN WELLS AND THAT IS NOT A PROBLEM. ONCE THEY DECOMMISSIONED IT, THE CANAL REPEATEDLY FILLED ITSELF BACK UP TO THE ARTESIAN WELLS BACK UP TO 12 FEET HENCE WE ARE STANDING IN AN AREA THAT USED TO BE 12 FEET DEEP FILLED WITH WATER AND THE TOWN FOUND IT NECESSARY TO FILL IN AND IN FACT, WHERE I AM STANDING, THERE'S STILL WATER UNDERNEATH IT. THERE'S A CONCRETE BASE THAT IS SITTING ATOP OF THE WATER. SO THERE MAY HAVE BEEN ENOUGH WATER BUT DID THE PROJECT STILL MAKE SENSE? THE CANAL HEYDAY WAS OVER AND EVEN THE TREND SET WATERWAY WOULD NEVER CARRY WHAT WAS MEANT TO HANDLE. BY 1909 COSTS WERE BALLOONING BUT AT THE END OF THE YEAR THAT CREWS HAVE FINISHED A LOT OF WORK. WHERE I'M STANDING WAS ONCE THE MIDDLE OF A LARGE TURNING BASIN A PLACE FOR THE BARGES TO TURN AROUND AND THEN HEAD BACK TO LAKE SIMCOE. ALL OF THE CONCRETE WALLS FOR THE BASIN WAS COMPLETED. BY THE NEXT SEPTEMBER --LOCKE ONE WAS FAR BEHIND. BUT POLITICS STILL REMAINED A FACTOR. OPPOSITION FOR THE CANAL CONTINUED TO GROW. LOCKE AND HIS SUPPORTERS HIGH THE COST FOR ABOUT WATERWAY EXPENSES WHEN THE OPPOSITION POLITICIANS FOUND OUT, THEY WERE LIVID. THEY ASKED THE RAILWAYS AND CANALS MINISTER HOW MUCH TRAFFIC IT WOULD CARRY. HE COULDN'T GIVE AN ESTIMATE. ALES WORTH SAID THAT REPORT SHOWED THE CANAL WOULD WORK BUT JUST THE SAME HE PROTECTED HIMSELF SAYING THAT REPORTS WERE FROM BEFORE HIS TIME. IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS POLITICAL BATTLE THERE WAS A CASUALTY. THE ORIGINAL ENGINEER. POLITICIANS HAD RUINED HIS REPUTATION THROUGH THIS PROJECT DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY WERE THE ONES WHO HAD CHANGED HIS PLAN AND LEAD TO SOME OF THE COST OVERRUNS. HE TOOK THE FALL FOR A LOT OF THE ISSUES IN THE CANAL AND LATER ON HAD --FOR SOMEONE LESS QUALIFIED BY THE ENGINEER HAD HAD ENOUGH. HE WROTE A TELL-ALL LETTER EXPLAINING HOW POLITICIANS HAD PUSHED FOR COST ESTIMATES, HOW RAILWAY AND WORKERS HAD CHANGED HIS ORIGINAL PLANS, HOW HE WOULD NEVER LET POLITICS GET IN THE WAY OF HIS PROFESSIONAL INTEGRITY AND SO ON. BUT WHAT AFFECTED THAT LETTER HAVE? WELL, NOT MUCH. SHORTLY THEREAFTER THERE WAS AN ELECTION, THE LAURIER LIBERALS LOST TO THE POIRIER CONSERVATIVES. AND IN THE BUSINESS IT WAS TO SCRAP THAT. AT THE TIME IT WAS 85 PERCENT COMPLETE BUT IT HAD TOO MUCH POLITICAL BAGGAGE EVER OPEN FOR BUSINESS. >> SPEAKER: ALL THE EVIDENCE POINTS TO THE FACT THAT EVEN IF THIS HAD BEEN A WONDERFUL PROJECT THAT THEY FULLY BELIEVED IN THEY WOULD HAVE CANCELLED IT AND IN FACT, SPEAKING IN PARLIAMENT THEY SAID I DON'T CARE HOW VIABLE IT IS, NOTHING WILL PROCEED UNDER MY LEADERSHIP. >> WARREN: AS FOR THE ENGINEER HE GOT A SMALL APOLOGY FROM ONE OF THE POLITICIANS WHO HAD WRONGLY ATTACKED HIS ENGINEERING SKILLS. BUT THAT WAS IT. THERE WOULD NEVER BE AN INQUIRY INTO WHAT HAPPENED AT THE NEWMARKET --NEWMARKET CANAL. >> SPEAKER: 5 YEARS AGO I WAS CONTACTED BY THE UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO AND THEY SAID HAD A GROUP OF 15 GRADUATE STUDENTS THAT WANTED TO EXAMINE WHETHER THIS PROJECT WAS DOABLE. THE REPORT INDICATED THAT NOT ONLY WAS IT FEASIBLE, BUT IT PROBABLY WAS MORE PREFERABLE TO THE TREND CANAL. THAT WAS A NO-BRAINER. >> WARREN: WHAT CAN WE LEARN FROM THE STORY? POLITICS GETTING IN THE WAY OF PROJECTS IS STILL SOMETHING WE SEE TODAY EVEN POPULAR PROJECT CAN FAIL IF THEY GET SEEN AS POLITICALLY MOTIVATED AS I WALK ALONG THESE CONCRETE WALLS, I THINK ABOUT PRIDE. SUPPORTERS PUSHED HARD FOR THIS PROJECT DESPITE THE FACT THAT CANALS HAVE ALREADY BECOME OBSOLETE. AND THE GOVERNMENT SCRAPPED A NEARLY FINISHED TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM AT LEAST PARTLY BECAUSE IT DIDN'T LIKE THE PERSON WHO STARTED IT. ALES WORTH SAID THAT THESE STRUCTURES WOULD LAST A LIME LONG TIME, STANDING AS MONUMENTS TO THE GOVERNMENT'S FALLING. WELL, HE WAS ALL RIGHT. THEY STAND TODAY AS PART OF CANADA'S LIVING HISTORY. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> JEYAN: LEARNING JOB SKILLS AND GROWING NUTRITIOUS FOOD: TONIGHT WE'LL HEAR ABOUT YOUNG URBAN FARMERS AND HOW THE HYDROPONIC KOSHER LEAFY GREENS PROGRAM AT THE REENA FOUNDATION IS EXPANDING INTO THE COMMUNITY. >> FRED: YOU'RE NOT. >> SPEAKER: A REAL GARDENER UNTIL YOU'VE KILLED LOTS OF PLANTS. IF WE CAN TREAT IT AS A LEARNING EXPERIENCE, APPROACH WITH A BIT OF CURIOSITY, WHY DID THIS HAPPEN. >> SPEAKER: IT'S NOT JUST PLANTS IT'S ABOUT EMPLOYMENT, IT'S ABOUT WELL-BEING, IT'S ABOUT SKILLS DEVELOPMENT. >> CHRISTOPHER: HI, MY NAME IS CHRIS AND I A GENERAL MANAGER OF FARMERS. WE STARTED OFF EXCLUSIVELY BUILDING RAISED BEDS IN PEOPLE'S BACKYARDS. HAS SINCE ROANE AND EXPANDED INTO CONTAINER GARDENS AND SCHOOLS AND BUSINESSES. >> FRED: HELLO, MY NAME IS FRED WINEGUST I MAY SPECIALIST HERE AT REENA. IT'S AN ORGANIZATION THAT PROVIDES HOUSING, SUPPORT AND SERVICES TO INDIVIDUALS WITH VARIOUS ABILITIES. SO IN 2020 WE HAD LOCKED DOWN A NUMBER OF OUR GROUP HOMES WHICH MEANT NOBODY COULD GO OUT TO SHOP SO WHY DON'T WE START THINKING ABOUT GROWING AT OUR OWN LOCATIONS AND START TO GROW FOOD ? I SAID CHRIS YOU HAVE TO HELP ME OUT HERE, WE ARE GOING TO DO SOMETHING INTERESTING. CHRIS HELPED US GET RUNNING IN UNDER A MONTH. THE FOLLOWING YEAR WE BROUGHT EVERYTHING TOGETHER AT OUR MEGA- FARM AND WE MOVED FROM A SMALL EXPERIENCE TO A MUCH LARGER GROWING EXPANSION BY GROWING TOGETHER. >> CHRISTOPHER: WHILE PHILOSOPHY WHEN IT COMES TO GARDENING IS TO KEEP THINGS SIMPLE AND TO KEEP THOSE ACCESSES THAT THEY CAN SEE RIGHT AWAY. THE CONSCIOUS IS AN IRRIGATED CONTAINER, IT'S A FALSE BOTTOM BUILT INTO CANADIAN --THAT APPROXIMATELY 60 METRE SOIL CAPACITY. THE RESERVOIR ALLOWS THE PLANTS TO GROW UP TO A WEEK BETWEEN WATERING AND ALLOWS THE PLANTS TO GROW REALLY BIG AND HEALTHY WHEN IT COMES TO WATERING IT SIMPLY FEELS THAT RESERVOIR AND ONCE WATER COMES OUT OF THE OVERFLOW HOLE THAT IS YOUR CUE TO STOP. >> FRED: HAVING A VISUAL CUE FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIFFERENT ABILITIES WITH THE PERFECT WAY OF SAYING YOU WILL NEVER OVERWATER, YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT TWO DOING TOO MUCH AND IT'S PERFECT IT REALLY SHOWS THEM THAT THEY CAN'T RUIN IT. AND WHEN THEY START TO SEE THE PLANTS GROWING, AND BEING SUCCESSFUL, THE CONFIDENCE LEVEL WENT UP. GOING INTO THIS YEAR WE HAD OVER 850 OF THESE CONTAINERS DEPLOYED WITHIN REENA. AND ANOTHER 400 DEPLOYED OUT INTO OUR NEIGHBOURHOOD PARTNERS SO WE HAD TO TEACH PEOPLE STAKING. AND THAT WAS WHEN YOUR PLANS GROW TALLER CUCUMBERS GROW TALL THEN YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT TO GIVE THEM SPACE TO GROW VERTICALLY. OTHERWISE THEY CAN BECOME ENTANGLED WITH EACH OTHER AND YOU ARE PLAYING A LOT OF HIDE AND GO SEEK TO FIND THE CUCUMBERS. >> CHRISTOPHER: ONE OF MY FAVOURITE PARTS IS SEEING THE JOY AND HAPPINESS THAT COMES FROM GROWING, HARVESTING, AND EATING SOMETHING THAT YOU HANDS ON HAD INVOLVED IN FROM DAY ONE. FOR MANY PEOPLE IT COMES FROM PLANTING THE SEED TO PULLING OUT THE RADISH OR PICKING THE PEAS ARE PICKING THE TOMATO AND EATING IT FRESH FROM THE GARDEN, STILL WARM IN THE SUN. >> FRED: IF YOU ORDER A STEAK YOU HAVE BEEN COMMANDED BY GOD TO MAINTAIN CERTAIN ROLES OF WHAT'S CALLED FRESH FRUIT OF BEING KOSHER. A TOMATO IS A TOMATO AND CUCUMBER IS CUCUMBER. ABOVE I BROUGHT CHRIS OVER WHEN WE HAD CHEF --TO OUR LOCATIONS WHERE WE WERE GROWING LEAFY GREENS AND THAT WAS OUR FIRST HARVEST. WE WERE CUTTING AND SAID WE WOULD TAKE THEM BACK TO BERNARD AND THE SECOND OF THAT LEAFY GREENS ARRIVED AT THE DOOR AT THE KOSHER SUPERVISOR SAID STOP, IT'S NOT COMING IN. WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT'S NOT COMING IN ? WE JUST GREW IT, IT'S GREAT. BUT NO I'M SORRY WE CANNOT ACCEPT LEAFY GREENS THAT WERE GROWN ORGANICALLY. WHY ? THEY SAID IT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE AN ISSUE WITH BUGS AND IF YOU ARE OUTDOOR IN DIRT HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS WHOLE EXAMINATION PROCESS AND IT SEEMS THAT IT'S EVEN WORSE WHEN WE DEAL WITH ORGANIC SO WE COULDN'T SELL WHAT WE HAD GROWN. YOU COULD STILL EAT IT, IT JUST MEANS IT WAS PART OF THE SEAL SO WE LOOKED AT THAT AND SAID THIS ISN'T A PROBLEM, THIS IS A CHALLENGE. WE STARTED EXACTLY ONE YEAR AGO, THE CONTAINER ITSELF LANDED ON MARCH 16 OF 2023. WE DID A CUSTOM CONSTRUCTION IN WINNIPEG FOR IT. AND AS PART OF THAT, WE WORKED FOR THE FOUNDATION TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CONTAINER ITSELF WAS WHEELCHAIR ACCESSIBLE SO BECAUSE SOME OF OUR INDIVIDUALS WHETHER THEY USE WALKERS OR WHEELCHAIRS WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE DIDN'T EXCLUDE ANYONE FROM PARTICIPATION AND NOW WHAT WE GROW IN OUR CONTAINER AFTER IT GOES THROUGH AND IT'S TESTED BY THE RABBIS TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE BUG FREE CAN NOW BE PUT INTO THE COMMUNITY EITHER SOLD AT SOBEYS ARE GOING DIRECTLY TO RESTAURANTS. WE FOUND IN OUR SECOND YEAR IT WAS HOW DESIRABLE OUR EGGPLANTS WERE. >> CHRISTOPHER: I THINK IT GOES BACK TO THE FRESHNESS. KNOWING WITHIN 24 HOURS OR A FEW HOURS. >> FRED: THE SHORTEST WE HAVE I WOULD REMEMBER FROM THE TIME OF THE TEST RESULT TO THE TIME IT WAS ACTUALLY ON THE TABLE, THESE PLANTS WERE ALIVE 5 EARLIER AND THEN THEY WERE IN THE SOLIDS OF THESE RESTAURANTS. WE PARTNERED WITH SOMEBODY WHO WAS ALREADY IN THE MARKET FOR 6 YEARS ON KOSHER LEAFY GREENS AND SAID, WE CAN HELP YOU EXPAND AT THE SAME TIME WE WOULD LIKE YOU TO PUBLICIZE THE FACT THAT YOU ARE HIRING AND TRAINING GREENA INDIVIDUALS TO DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. >> CHRISTOPHER: THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT APPROACHES. BACKYARD OR FRONT YARDS, A ROOFTOP, PATIO, DECK, MY APPROACH IS READY TO START WITH THE AND OF MIND WHAT IS THE GOAL, IS IT TO GROW AS MUCH IN A SMALL AMOUNT OF SPACE? IS IT LIKE IN FRED'S EXAMPLE TO ENGAGE THE COMMUNITY ? SOMETIMES THERE ARE SOLUTIONS WHERE EVERYTHING IS PROVIDED A CONTAINER, SOIL, PLANTS. FOR A FEW OF MY CUSTOMERS I HAVE SERVICE ASPECT AS WELL WHERE I MIGHT TEAM AND I WE HELP IN ALL ASPECTS FROM THE PLANTING TO HARVESTING. FOR MANY PEOPLE AS THEY BECOME MORE COMFORTABLE, IT'S VARIABLE TO TAKE ON MORE OF THAT WORK TO HAVE THAT HANDS-ON EXPERIENCE TO DO IT THEMSELVES. SO THE MARKET FOR URBAN FARMING, IT'S REALLY VARIABLE. WE HAVE SCHOOL, WE HAVE DIFFERENT REASONS FOR GROWING THEN HOTELS OR RESTAURANTS. THERE'S THIS WHOLE IDEA ALSO OF PRINT CROPS AND ETHNIC CROPS THAT MIGHT NOT BE READILY AVAILABLE AT THEIR SUPERMARKETS. ONE UNIQUE PLANT I GREW UP WITH A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO WAS A SEDIMENT PLANT. THE REALLY COOL THING ABOUT THAT IS THAT THAT LEAVES ALSO HAVE A CINNAMON FLAVOURED. THERE ARE THESE CHILLY HEADS THAT ARE THE HOTTEST PEPPERS EVER, I WANT THIS SPECIFIC GHOST PEPPER. I CAN GROW IT MYSELF AND I CAN CHALLENGE MYSELF TO EAT IT AND MAKE MY OWN SPECIAL HOSTEL SAUCE OUT OF IT. I'M ALSO LEARNING THINGS WITH THE RESTAURANTS THAT I HELPED TO BUILD A GARDEN FOR, ON THE ROOFTOP WITH SOME OF THESE CONTAINERS. ONE OF THE UNIQUE HERBS THAT THEY WERE REQUESTING WHICH WAS BRAND-NEW TO ME WAS A JAPANESE HERB AND I HOPE I GET THE PRONUNCIATION CORRECT, THE WAY I SAY IT IS OKA HIJIKI. HAVING THAT GARDEN, HAVING THOSE SAME CROPS, THOSE SAME VEGETABLES THAT YOU REMEMBER GROWING OR THAT YOUR PARENTS OR GRANDPARENTS WERE GROWING, A NEIGHBOUR I WAS TALKING TO, THEY HAD GREEK ALL OF TREES, HE HAD HIS FAKE TREES THAT HE WOULD LOVE AGREEING BRING INSIDE IN THE WINTER, TAKE OUTSIDE AND KEEP THEM GROWING YEAR AFTER YEAR. AS A WAY TO STAY CONNECTED TO THE SAME FOODS THAT THEY WERE EATING. I ALSO THINK ABOUT MY GRANDMOTHER WHEN MY FAMILY WOULD GO ON BUSINESS VISITS TO OTTAWA. THE WHOLE BACKYARD WAS ALL DIFFERENT CHINESE VEGETABLES. AND SEEING THOSE VEGETABLES GROWING IN THE SOUP AND THE MEALS WE EAT EVERY NIGHT WAS JUST SOMETHING THAT I TOOK A LITTLE BIT FOR GRANTED GROWING UP BUT I REALIZED IS SUCH A KEY PART OF BUILDING THOSE COURT MEMORIES AND CONNECTIONS TO OUR HERITAGE AND TO OUR CULTURE. AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT WHILE IT WAS UNIQUE TO ME, IT WAS ALSO NOT UNIQUE IN THAT SO MUCH OF CANADA AND OUR IMMIGRATION STORY HAS THESE SAME DIFFERENT THREADS IN THE SAME DIFFERENT STORIES JUST IN A SLIGHT DIFFERENT ITERATION AND I SEE THIS FOR EXAMPLE, LOOKING BACK AT THE HISTORY OF CABBAGE TOWN WHERE THEY WERE GROWING CABBAGES TO HELP SUPPORT AND SUSTAIN THEMSELVES. >> FRED: I COULD TALK ABOUT KENSINGTON MARKET, THAT'S WHERE MY FATHER CAME BACK AS A SURVIVOR OF HOLOCAUST CAME TO CANADA AND WAS LIVING DOWN THERE AND CHICKENS AND VEGETABLES. THAT IS WHAT KENSINGTON WAS ALL ABOUT. AND MANY DIFFERENT GENERATIONS OF MANY DIFFERENT WAYS OF THEM HAVE MOVED THROUGH THAT COMMUNITY. BUT THERE'S A LOT OF COMMONALITY OVER TIME AND IT ALL COMES BACK. >> CHRISTOPHER: TO BOOT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I SEE IS HAVING A GARDEN FORCES PEOPLE TO GET FRESH AIR, TO GET SUNSHINE, TO GET PHYSICAL ACTIVITY, TO MOVE AROUND AND TO HAVE THOSE INTERACTIONS BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT GENERATIONS, BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT CULTURES. NO MATTER YOUR LANGUAGE, NO MATTER YOUR CULTURAL BACKGROUNDS, FOOD IS SOMETHING THAT BRINGS PEOPLE TOGETHER. >> FRED: WHAT YOU DO FOR THE INDIVIDUALS WHO GREW IT? IT GIVES THEM NEW CONFIDENCE THEY DIDN'T HAVE BEFORE, IT GIVES THEM A LIFE SKILL. >> CHRISTOPHER: I WANT TO ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO GET STARTED AND GROW SOMETHING. IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW BIG OR SMALL. IT COULD BE SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS A JAR OF SPROUTS ON YOUR KITCHEN COUNTER, AS BIG AS THE MEGA FARMS PROJECT THAT FRED IS WORKING ON OR ANYTHING BETWEEN. GARDENING, NURTURING THOSE PLANTS, TAKING A SLOWER APPROACH FROM OUR INSTANT EDIFICATION LIFE,. >> FRED: I THINK THAT'S THE STORY FOR URBAN GARDENING. I THINK IT REALLY IS THE BRINGING OF COMMUNITIES TOGETHER. YOU MIGHT START HOMOGENOUS, YOU MIGHT START WITHIN YOUR COMMUNITY AND THEN SLOWLY START TO EXPAND SLOWLY. THEN BRINGING IN MANY DIFFERENT CULTURES AND MANY DIFFERENT AGES. AND THAT'S THE KEY. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> SPEAKER: HI, MY NAME IS WHY AND I'M IN SECOND GRADE. AND MY QUESTION IS, IF PLANTS COME FROM SEEDS WHERE DO THE SEEDS COME FROM? >> SPEAKER: HELLO, WHY MY NAME IS PETER COTA AND FROM --I STUDY ECOLOGY AND I WILL TELL YOU YOUR ANSWER. SEEDS COME FROM PLANTS AND PLANTS COME FROM THE SEEDS. SO WHAT HAPPENS IS, ON A PLANT, OF FLOWERS, LIKE ON THIS PEPPER PLANT, THEY PRODUCE POLLEN WHICH IS THIS DUST THAT CONTAINED DNA. THAT GETS MOVED BY A BEE OR WIND TO ANOTHER PLANT OR FLOWER, IT FERTILIZES AND IT DEVELOPS INTO A FRUIT LIKE THIS PEPPER. LIKE CRACKERS --LIKE CRACKERS OPEN THERE ARE THE SEEDS INSIDE. WHEN THEY THE SEEDS GERMINATE, THE SPROUT AND TURN INTO ANOTHER PEPPER PLANT. SO PLANTS HAVE FLOWERS TO MAKE SEEDS, AND WHEN THE SEEDS GROW UP THEY TURN INTO FLOWERS. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> STEVE: TOMORROW ON "THE AGENDA"... >> SPEAKER: WHEN WE KIND OF BUY INTO SELF-LIMITING BELIEFS, SOMEBODY ELSE'S STORY ABOUT WHAT MEN DO OR DON'T DO AND THOSE BELIEFS LIMIT US. THAT'S INHERENTLY PROBLEMATIC. >> STEVE: THAT'S TOMORROW ON "THE AGENDA". >> NARRATOR: "THE AGENDA" WITH STEVE PAIKIN IS MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH GENEROUS PHILANTHROPIC CONTRIBUTIONS FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU. THANK YOU FOR SUPPORTING TVO'S JOURNALISM. "THE AGENDA" IS ALWAYS ONLINE. TO CATCH UP ON CONVERSATIONS FROM THIS WEEK OR ANY WEEK VISIT OUR WEBSITE, TVO.ORG/THEAGENDA OR OUR YOUTUBE PAGE AT YOUTUBE.COM/THEAGENDA. IT'S ALL THERE FOR YOU WHENEVER WANT TO WATCH. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
