I WONDER ABOUT GOD. DOES GOD EXIST? IF SO, WHAT IS GOD LIKE? HERE'S A WAY THAT
MAY MAKE PROGRESS. HOW WOULD GOD RELATE TO TIME? BECAUSE, IF GOD EXISTS, THE
CONCEPT OF GOD CANNOT CONTRADICT THE CONCEPT OF TIME. DOES GOD - IF THERE IS
A GOD - EXIST IN TIME, EXPERIENCING TIME'S FLOW? OR DID GOD CREATE TIME AND
SOMEHOW EXISTS OUTSIDE OF TIME? I RECALL HOW PHYSICIST, PAUL
DAVIES - NOT A THEIST - FRAMED THE PROBLEM FOR ME. IT GOES BACK TO
AUGUSTINE, YOU KNOW? WHAT WAS GOD DOING
BEFORE HE MADE THE UNIVERSE? AND THE QUIP WAS, WELL, BUSY
MAKING HELL FOR THE LIKES OF YOU WHO WOULD ASK SUCH A QUESTION. BUT A MORE CONSIDERED ANSWER
IS THAT THE WORLD WAS MADE WITH TIME AND NOT IN TIME, AND
THAT WAS AUGUSTINE'S ANSWER. IN OTHER WORDS, HE TOOK
GOD RIGHT OUTSIDE OF TIME, SO WE DIDN'T HAVE THIS NOTION OF
A BEING WHO WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ALL GOOD AND ALL
PERFECT, WHO NEVERTHELESS, AT SOME PARTICULAR MOMENT, MADE
UP HIS MIND TO HAVE A UNIVERSE, AND SNAP - THERE
WAS THE UNIVERSE. AND SO, BY TAKING
GOD OUTSIDE OF TIME, THOSE PROBLEMS WERE SOLVED,
ONLY TO BE REPLACED BY ANOTHER, NAMELY THAT, IF GOD IS
A TRULY TIMELESS BEING, THEN WHAT MEANING COULD ONE
ATTACH TO THINGS LIKE PRAYER AND GOD APPEARING IN HISTORICAL
SEQUENCE WITH THE - YOU KNOW - THE CREATION, AND THE
FALL AND THE INCARNATION, THE RESURRECTION, AND SO ON -
ALL THE STUFF THAT PEOPLE WANT IN RELIGION? SO IS GOD - IF THERE
IS A GOD - ETERNAL, ALTOGETHER OUTSIDE OF TIME? THE QUESTION, HOWEVER
ODD, PROVIDES INSIGHT, ASSESSING GOD'S EXISTENCE
AND DISCERNING GOD'S ESSENCE. THAT'S WHY I WONDER -
WHAT IS GOD'S ETERNITY? I'M ROBERT LAWRENCE KUHN,
AND CLOSER TO TRUTH IS MY JOURNEY TO FIND OUT. IF A SUPREME BEING
EXISTS - IF AN ALL POWERFUL, ALL KNOWING GOD
CREATED THE UNIVERSE, THEN HOW SUCH A GOD
RELATES TO TIME MUST MAKE SENSE. THEOLOGIANS DEBATE WHETHER GOD
IS TEMPORAL OR ATEMPORAL - IN TIME, FEELING ITS FLOW
AS WE ARE AND WE DO, OR TIMELESS, ETERNAL,
INDEPENDENT OF TIME, AS WE CAN HARDLY IMAGINE. GOD IN TIME - THAT
I CAN ALMOST GRASP. GOD NOT IN TIME - GOD ETERNAL
- THAT I CANNOT AT ALL GRASP. BUT TO TRY TO CONSIDER
GOD, OR TO TRY TO KNOW GOD, I MUST TRY TO
APPREHEND GOD'S ETERNITY. THAT'S WHY I BEGIN WITH A
PHILOSOPHER KNOWN FOR HER VIGOROUS DEFENSE OF GOD'S
ETERNITY - A PAST PRESIDENT OF THE SOCIETY OF
CHRISTIAN PHILOSOPHERS, ELEANOR STUMP. ELEANOR, TO UNDERSTAND
WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT, I CAN'T IMAGINE ANYTHING MORE
POWERFUL THAN UNDERSTANDING THE CONCEPT OF ETERNITY, WHAT GOD'S
ETERNITY COULD POSSIBLY BE. THE IDEA OF GOD'S ETERNITY IS
THE IDEA OF A DURATION BIGGER THAN THAT OF TIME. YOUR SENSE OF ENDURINGNESS
AND TIME IS ILLUSORY, BECAUSE WHAT'S
PRESENT IS NOW, AND NOW, IN TIME, IS AN INSTANT. WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF YOU COULD
TAKE NOW AND STRETCH IT OUT INDEFINITELY WITHOUT HAVING IT
FALL APART IMMEDIATELY IN THE PAST AND FUTURE? WHAT WOULD THAT BE? AN INFINITELY EXISTING PRESENT
IS A BIGGER - METAPHYSICALLY BIGGER - MODE OF EXISTENCE. THE IDEA OF GOD'S ETERNITY
IS THAT GOD IS OUTSIDE TIME, NOT AS A FROZEN, IMMOVABLE
INSTANT THAT CAN DO LESS THAN YOU CAN DO, BUT AS SOMETHING
METAPHYSICALLY MUCH BIGGER THAN YOU, WHOSE PRESENCE ENCOMPASSING
ALL OF YOUR WORLD - ALL OF TIME. NOW, HOW DOES IT ENCOMPASS IT? WELL, LIKE THIS, SEE. WHEN YOU'RE AT THIS 'NOW' AND WE
CONNECT TO GOD IN HIS ETERNITY, WHAT WE ARE CONNECTING
TO, SIMULTANEOUS WITH US IS EVERYTHING IN ETERNITY, BECAUSE
THAT'S WHAT THERE IS IN ETERNITY - ALL NOW. WHEN GOD IN HIS
ETERNITY CONNECTS TO US, RELATES TO US IN TIME,
FROM HIS POINT OF VIEW, EACH MOMENT OF
TIME, AS IT'S PRESENT, IS SIMULTANEOUS
WITH THE ONE NOW, WHICH IS HIS MODE OF DURATION. THESE ARE TWO EQUALLY
REAL MODES OF DURATION. TIME IS NOT ILLUSORY. TIME AS ETERNITY IS NOT ILLUSORY
- THEY DON'T REDUCE TO ANY THIRD THING. CAN GOD FOREKNOW THE FUTURE? NO. ABSOLUTELY NOT. THERE IS NO FUTURE
FROM HIS POINT OF VIEW. THIS, WHICH IS TRULY
AND REALLY A FUTURE, WITH RESPECT TO
US, IS NOW FOR HIM. AS EACH INSTANT OF
TIME IS PRESENT, REALLY ABSOLUTELY PRESENT,
IT'S SIMULTANEOUS WITH HIS WHOLE LIFE. IN THE REAL MODE OF
DURATION, WHICH IS TIME, ONLY ONE INSTANT IS NOW. BUT WHEN GOD, IN
HIS BIGGER 'HERE' , RELATES TO TIME, THEN
ALL OF IT IS NOW FOR HIM. THAT'S THE BASIC IDEA. TO ELEANOR, OUR SENSE OF TIME
FLOWING AND GOD'S ETERNAL NOW ARE TWO EQUALLY REAL
MODES OF EXISTENCE. NICE, IF IT WORKS. IF GOD IS, WELL, GOD, THEN I
SUPPOSE A DUAL MODE OF TIME CAN EXIST. BUT DO THE CONTRADICTING
CONCEPTS OF TIME DEFY PHYSICS? I RECALL HOW PAUL DAVIES USES
EINSTEIN'S RELATIVITY TO GIVE CREDENCE TO THE IDEA THAT GOD -
IF THERE IS A GOD - IS ETERNAL. EINSTEIN SHOWED US THAT TIME IS
NOT SOME SORT OF ARENA - SPACE AND TIME ARE NOT JUST THERE, THE
GREAT ARENA IN WHICH THE DRAMA OF NATURE IS ACTED OUT. THEY ARE PART OF THE CAST. THAT IS, SPACE AND
TIME ARE PART OF PHYSICS, JUST AS MUCH AS
MATTER AND FORCE. AND THAT, IF YOU BELIEVE THE
UNIVERSE CAME INTO EXISTENCE WITH A BIG BANG, THEN SPACE
AND TIME COULD HAVE COME INTO EXISTENCE WITH THE
BIG BANG AS WELL. JUST AS AUGUSTINE SAID, THAT
THE WORLD WAS MADE WITH TIME, AND NOT IN TIME. SO PHYSICS TELLS US THAT TIME IS
PART OF THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE, AND IF YOU WANT TO HAVE A GOD
WHO IS SOMEHOW RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS PHYSICAL UNIVERSE, AND
THIS GOD HAS TO BE OUTSIDE TIME. SO IT SUPPORTS THE
NOTION OF A TIMELESS BEING. I AM EVER SUSPICIOUS OF USING
SCIENCE TO PROVE GOD OR ANYTHING ABOUT GOD. I WILL ADMIT, HOWEVER, A
THIN CHANCE OF THE REVERSE. IF THERE EXISTS AN ETERNAL
GOD, AND IF THAT GOD CREATED THE UNIVERSE USING
GENERAL RELATIVITY, THEN GENERAL RELATIVITY
CAN REFLECT THE NATURE OF ITS CREATOR. BUT GOD'S ETERNITY
SEEMS SO ALIEN - NO BEFORE, NO AFTER - HOW TO
GET PERSPECTIVE? I PURSUE THIS WITH A PHILOSOPHER
OF RELIGION WHOSE SPECIALITY IS GOD'S RELATIONSHIP
TO TIME, GREG GANSEL. A TRADITIONAL VIEW, THROUGHOUT
THE HISTORY OF THEOLOGY AND PHILOSOPHY HAS BEEN
THAT GOD IS ETERNAL, MEANING THAT GOD IS
NOT IN TIME AT ALL, AND THERE ARE TWO
ELEMENTS TO THIS. ONE IS THAT GOD IS NOT
LOCATED AT ANY TIME. SO LITERALLY SPEAKING, GOD
DOESN'T KNOW THINGS AT A TIME, OR DO THINGS AT A TIME. THE SECOND ELEMENT IS THAT
GOD DOES NOT EXPERIENCE TEMPORAL SUCCESSION. OKAY, NOW WE HAVE TO
FIGURE OUT IF THIS MAKES SENSE, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, IT SOUNDS
LIKE GOD IS PRETTY HANDICAPPED, IF GOD DOESN'T KNOW WHAT TIME
IT IS AND CAN'T FIGURE OUT WHAT KIND OF SEQUENCE OF EVENTS. BUT AUGUSTINE THOUGHT THAT GOD
WAS ETERNAL OR ATEMPORAL IN THIS WAY BECAUSE IT WAS A
DIVINE PERFECTION. THE FULLNESS OF GOD'S BEING
COULD NOT BE CONTAINED MOMENT TO MOMENT. IN OTHER WORDS, IF GOD MOVES
FROM THE PAST TO THE PRESENT TO THE FUTURE, IS ALWAYS IN THE
PRESENT - THE PAST IS SOMETHING GOD LOSES, SO
THAT'S NOT A PERFECTION. EXACTLY. THE FUTURE IS
SOMETHING GOD DOESN'T HAVE. SO THAT'S - IF YOU
DON'T HAVE THE FUTURE, AND YOU LOSE THE PAST,
LIKE, YOU'RE IMPERFECT. YOU HAVE TO HAVE IT ALL. THIS IS WHAT
AUGUSTINE FELT, AND BOETHEUS, AND THEY WERE COMING
OUT OF A TRADITION, COMING FROM PLATO, WHERE
THE MOST REAL THINGS WERE NOT SUCCEPTABLE TO TIME. NOW, DOES IT MAKE SENSE? DOES IT MAKE SENSE THAT
ANYTHING IS ETERNAL THIS WAY? ONE WAY TO GET AFTER THAT IS TO
THINK ABOUT THE NATURE OF THINGS LIKE NUMBERS, OR WHAT
PHILOSOPHERS CALL ABSTRACT OBJECTS - THINGS
LIKE PROPERTIES, THINGS THAT ARE NOT
IN SPACE AND TIME. SO IT DOESN'T MAKE
SENSE TO ASK THE QUESTION, HOW OLD IS THE NUMBER 3? SO IT MAKES SENSE TO ME THAT
ABSTRACT OBJECTS CAN BE ETERNAL IN THIS SENSE. YEAH, OF COURSE, THERE'S HUGE
DIFFERENCES BETWEEN WHAT WE THINK AN ABSTRACT OBJECT IS
AND WHAT WE IMAGINE GOD TO BE, BECAUSE AN
ABSTRACT OBJECT, FOR ONE, HAS NO CAUSAL
CONNECTION TO ANYTHING, AND THE GOD THAT YOU WANT TO
HAVE HAS A CAUSAL RELATIONSHIP TO EVERYTHING. AND, GOD IS NOT ONLY A CONCRETE
OBJECT - IN OTHER WORDS, STANDING IN CAUSAL RELATIONS,
BUT IS A PERSON OF SOME KIND, IN THE TRADITIONAL THEOLOGY,
AND I WOULD ASCRIBE TO THAT. SO, CAN THERE BE A NON-TEMPORAL
PERSON - AND THAT GETS MORE DIFFICULT. BOETHEUS USES THE
WORD 'DURATION', THAT THERE'S A
DURATION IN GOD'S ETERNITY, BUT IT'S NOT A
TEMPORAL DURATION. AND OF COURSE,
PEOPLE HAVE ARGUED, RECENT PHILOSOPHERS, DOES THE
CONCEPT OF ATEMPORAL IN DURATION MAKE SENSE? IT SOUND
INCOHERENT IN ONE SENSE. BECAUSE WE THINK ABOUT
DURATION IN TERMS OF TIME. BUT THEY'RE THINKING THAT
ETERNITY IS A FULLNESS RATHER THAN A POINT. WHEN WE SAY THAT
GOD IS EVERYWHERE, WE SORT OF UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT WHEN WE SAY GOD IS
IN NO PLACE IN TIME, THAT SEEMS A LITTLE HARDER, EVEN
THOUGHT WE KNOW SPACE AND TIME ARE RELATED. THAT'S RIGHT. IT'S NOT THAT GOD
IS LOCATED IN SPACE, BUT THAT GOD HAS
ABSOLUTE DIRECT ACCESS, IN TERMS OF HIS
DIRECT KNOWLEDGE, AND HIS DIRECT ACTION ABILITY,
AT EVERY POINT IN SPACE. IT'S NOT THAT GOD
IS LOCATED IN TIME, BUT THAT GOD HAS ACCESS -
IMMEDIATE KNOWLEDGE ACCESS - AS WELL AS THE ABILITY TO
ACT AT ANY POINT IN TIME. SO, THE PEOPLE WHO ARGUE THAT
GOD IS OUTSIDE TIME REALLY WANT TO PRESS A STRONG
ANALOGY WITH STRESS. THE PEOPLE WHO ARGUE THAT GOD
IS EVERLASTING - HE NEVER BEGAN, NEVER ENDED, BUT STILL
EXPERIENCES TIME IN SUCCESSION, WANT TO MINIMIZE THAT ANALOGY. THEY WANT TO SAY THERE ARE
IMPORTANT DIFFERENCES BETWEEN TIME AND SPACE THAT ARE
RELEVANT TO THIS QUESTION. AND WHERE DO YOU COME OUT? I DEFENDED IN MY DISSERTATION
THAT GOD IS OUTSIDE TIME, AND AS I THINK OF THAT, I STILL
THINK IT'S A STRONG POSITION. BUT THERE'S ALSO A
PERSONAL ELEMENT. WHEN I THINK ABOUT RELATING
TO GOD - WHEN I PRAY - I DON'T PICTURE GOD AS
BEING OUTSIDE TIME. THERE ARE STRONG
ARGUMENTS ON BOTH SIDES, BUT WE'LL HAVE TO SEE. SO, THERE ARE TWO
ASPECTS OF GOD'S ETERNITY. GOD IS NEVER
LOCATED AT ANY TIME, AND GOD DOES NOT
EXPERIENCE TEMPORAL SUCCESSION. CHILLINGLY
BIZARRE, BUT PROGRESS? NOT PROGRESS IN THE SENSE OF
ASSESSING THE REALITY OF SUCH A GOD, BUT PERHAPS, PROGRESS IN
SEEING IN THE DARK A GLIMPSE OF A SHADOW OF WHAT SUCH
A GOD MIGHT BE LIKE. BUT WHEN NO SOLUTIONS TO THE
PROBLEMS OF GOD AND TIME REALLY WORK, COULD THERE BE SOMETHING
WRONG WITH THE CONCEPT OF GOD? I VISIT CHRISTIAN
PHILOSOPHER WILLIAM LAYNE CRAIG, WHO OFFERS A DIFFERENT SOLUTION. BEST TO START WITH THE KINDS
OF QUESTIONS ABOUT GOD IN TIME. DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO TALK
ABOUT A TIMELESS PERSON, AND IF SO, HOW SHOULD WE
CONCEIVE THE LIFE OF GOD? ANOTHER QUESTION WOULD BE,
WHETHER OR NOT GOD IS ABLE TO BE ACTIVE IN THE WORLD, OR IS HE SO
REMOVED FROM IT THAT HE DOESN'T REALLY GET INVOLVED
IN OUR TEMPORAL LIVES, IF HE'S TIMELESS. ANOTHER QUESTION WOULD BE
WHETHER OR NOT TIME WOULD AFFECT GOD'S LIFE. DOES GOD HAVE ALL THE LIFE THAT
HE HAS IN A TIMELESS MOMENT, OR IS GOD'S LIFE DISTRIBUTED
OVER TIME THE OURS IS? DOES GOD HAVE A
FUTURE, SO TO SPEAK? WELL, AND THAT WOULD MEAN
THAT, IF GOD HAD A PAST, THERE ARE THINGS TO GOD
THAT NO LONGER ARE REAL. YES, THAT'S RIGHT. TO BE IN TIME IS TO HAVE A
TEMPORAL LOCATION AND A TEMPORAL EXTENSION. AND TO BE TIMELESS IS SIMPLY
TO HAVE NO TEMPORAL LOCATION OR EXTENSION. SO THESE ARE CONTRADICTORIES. THEY CANNOT BOTH BE TRUE. SO YOU'VE GOT TO CHOOSE BETWEEN
TIMELESSNESS OR TEMPORALITY. I AM PERSUADED THAT THE
TIMELESSNESS OR TEMPORALITY OF GOD WILL STAND OR FALL ON WHICH
VIEW YOU ADOPT OF THE NATURE OF TIME ITSELF. AND PHILOSOPHERS HAVE
DISTINGUISHED TWO VERY DIFFERENT VIEWS OF TIME. ONE IS A DYNAMIC VIEW OF
TIME THAT SAYS THAT PAST, PRESENT AND
FUTURE ARE OBJECTIVE, AND THAT THE PAST IS GONE,
THE FUTURE IS MERELY POTENTIAL, ONLY THE PRESENT IS REAL. THE OTHER VIEW OF TIME SAYS THAT
ALL MOMENTS AND EVENTS IN TIME ARE EQUALLY REAL, AND TEMPORAL
BECOMING IS JUST AN ILLUSION OF HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS. NOW, THOSE ARE VERY
DIFFERENT VIEWS OF TIME, AND I THINK THAT, HOW YOU
CONCEIVE OF TIME WILL RADICALLY AND FUNDAMENTALLY DETERMINE HOW
YOU VIEW GOD'S ETERNITY AND HIS RELATIONSHIP TO TIME. IF YOU WANT TO HAVE A
TIMELESS VIEW OF GOD, THEN I THINK YOU NEED TO GO WITH
THIS TENSELESS VIEW THAT SEES TIME AS JUST A PART OF A
FOUR-DIMENSIONAL BLOCK, AND GOD EXISTS
OUTSIDE THE BLOCK, AND HE SUSTAINS
THE BLOCK IN BEING. AND, CAN SEE OR INTERACT
WITH ANY POINT IN THIS BLOCK? EXACTLY. AND ANY POINT IN THIS BLOCK
HAS A TIME COMPONENT TO IT. THAT'S RIGHT. DOES THAT MEAN, THOUGH, IN
GOD'S OWN INTERNAL MENTAL LIFE, IF WE CAN SAY THAT, THAT
THERE ARE NO SEQUENCE OF EVENTS? THAT WOULD IMPLY THAT. A TIMELESS GOD WOULD BE A
GOD WHO EXPERIENCES NO PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE,
NO EARLIER AND LATER. HE WOULD KNOW OF
THINGS IN THE BLOCK, THAT THEY ARE EARLIER
AND LATER THAN EACH OTHER. BUT FOR GOD, THE WHOLE BLOCK
WOULD JUST BE THERE IN A SINGLE, TIMELESS MOMENT, AS IT WERE. I THINK THAT THIS VIEW IS JUST
FILLED WITH PHILOSOPHICAL AND THEOLOGICAL PROBLEMS
THAT RENDER IT IMPLAUSIBLE. ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS ASKS:
WHY DID GOD WAIT SO LONG TO CREATE THE UNIVERSE? THIS IS A QUESTION THAT
LIEBNITZ PRESSED AGAINST NEWTON AND HIS
FOLLOWERS, LIKE SAMUEL CLARK, AND I THINK THAT IT IS A SOUND
ARGUMENT AGAINST THINKING THAT GOD HAS ENDURED THROUGH AN
INFINITE SEQUENCE OF TEMPORAL MOMENTS PRIOR TO THE
MOMENT OF CREATION. AND SO, THAT IMPLIES THAT
TIME MUST HAVE HAD A BEGINNING, AND THAT IN SOME MYSTERIOUS WAY,
GOD EXISTED NOT BEFORE TIME - THAT WOULD BE A
SELF-CONTRADICTION, BUT HE EXISTED IN
SOME WAY BEYOND TIME. AND SO, GOD IS
TIMELESS WITHOUT CREATION, AND HE IS TEMPORAL SINCE
THE MOMENT OF CREATION. SO, THE DECISION TO
CREATE, ON GOD'S PART, IS A DECISION TO ENTER INTO
TIME IN ORDER TO RELATE TO HIS CREATURES. ONCE THAT DECISION WAS
MADE, IT'S IRREVOCABLE. I THINK THAT'S RIGHT. I THINK THAT'S RIGHT. BILL CHAMPIONS THE
NOVEL IDEA THAT, PRIOR TO CREATION, GOD
WAS TIMELESS OR ETERNAL, AND AFTER CREATION
GOD BECAME TEMPORAL, OR IN TIME. BUT GOD THEN BECAME TRAPPED,
NEVER ABLE TO REVERT TO GOD'S TIMELESS, ETERNAL STATE? FOR GOD, THAT FEELS AWKWARD. SOMETHING'S AMISS. THE PHILOSOPHICAL TRADITION OF
EXPLORING GOD AND TIME IS ROOTED IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. I MEET FATHER ROB SPITZER,
A JESUIT PHILOSOPHER WHO KNOWS PHYSICS. ...A NON-CONTEMPORANEOUS
CONTINUUM. SO IF WE VIEW SPACE AS A
CONTEMPORANEOUS CONTINUUM, WHERE ALL THE PARTS IN THE
CONTINUUM EXIST AS IT WERE AT THE SAME TIME, SIMULTANEOUSLY,
TIME WOULD BE - ALL THE PARTS OF THE CONTINUUM ARE
NOT AT THE SAME TIME. THEY ARE LITERALLY
SEPARATED, DIVISIBLE INTO EARLIER AND LATER. YOU DO REALLY NEED SUCH A
CONTINUUM IN ORDER TO HAVE CHANGE IN OUR UNIVERSE. IF YOU LOOK AT THAT
FOR JUST A MOMENT, YOU KNOW, AND YOU
JUST SAY, WELL, DOES GOD HAVE TO BE
SUBJECT, IN HIMSELF, TO A NON-CONTEMPORANEOUS
UNITY OR MANIFOLD? I DO NOT THING THAT GOD
DOES, BECAUSE I THINK A HIGHER DIMENSIONAL REALITY CAN
EXIST INDEPENDENTLY OF THAT, WHICH GETS, OF
COURSE, TO THE QUESTION, YOU KNOW - IF GOD COULD BE,
AS AUGUSTINE DESCRIBES HIM, AN ETERNAL NOW, AS IT WERE,
THEN HOW DOES HE RELATE TO HUMAN BEINGS, AND SPECIFICALLY
WITH RESPECT TO HUMAN FREEDOM? THE FIRST THING IS, IS,
WELL, DOES GOD KNOW THE FUTURE? CAN GOD ACTUALLY KNOW TIME
WITHOUT BEING TEMPORALIZED? AND THE ANSWER, I THINK, IS YES. YOU CAN THINK OF ANY NUMBER
OF THINGS WHERE YOUR THOUGHT DOESN'T CONDITION YOUR
THINKING OR THE THINKER HIMSELF. BUT, DOES GOD HAVE A SEQUENCE OF
EVENTS IN GOD'S OWN PLANNING OF THINGS, RELATING TO WHAT WE DO? ONLY IN THE RELATIONSHIP
OF HIS THOUGHT OF CREATION. WITH RESPECT TO
WHAT HE IS IN HIMSELF, NOT NECESSARILY. AND THAT'S NOT A
CONTRADICTION, TO SAY GOD, IN GOD'S OWN SELF,
HAS AN ETERNAL NOW. AND, GOD CAN LITERALLY RELATE
TO TEMPORAL CREATURES IN THEIR TEMPORALITY. BECAUSE, A NON-CONTEMPORANEOUS
CONTINUUM IS ACTUALLY A LOWER REALITY THAN AN
ETERNAL NOW, AS IT WERE. NOW, WHEN TIME IS
CONFIGURED IN HIGHER DIMENSIONS, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE
IN VIEWED LINEARLY. SO, DO I THINK THAT GOD
CAN UNDERSTAND TIME IN A HIGHER DIMENSION? YEP. DO I THINK HE CAN UNDERSTAND
IT IN A KIND OF LINEAR SEQUENTIAL ORDER? YES. AND EACH TIME, THOSE
ARE DIFFERENT THOUGHTS, BUT THOSE THOUGHTS DON'T IN TURN
DETERMINE HIM OR CONFIGURE HIM TO THE STRICTURES
OF THE THOUGHT. SO, ROBERT BELIEVES
THAT GOD CAN INDEED EXIST, AS IT WERE, IN
TIME AND BEYOND TIME, AT ALL TIMES AND AT NO TIME. WELL, HOW TO HANDLE THE
APPARENT CONTRADICTION? THE KEY MECHANISM, ROBERT
SAYS, IS SOME KIND OF HIGHER DIMENSIONALITY. I AM AT ONCE STIMULATED AND
DISTURBED - STIMULATED IN THAT THE HORIZON OF GOD IS STRETCHED,
DISTURBED IN THAT THE REALITY OF GOD IS STRAINED. CAN AN ALL POWERFUL GOD BE
HARMONIZED WITH THE RELENTLESS FLOW OF TIME? I SPEAK WITH THE
AUTHOR OF TIME IN ETERNITY, A MINISTER WITH A
DOCTORATE IN PHYSICS, ROBERT JOHN RUSSEL. BOB, HOW DO YOU HAVE SUCH
DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT POSITIONS AMONG PEOPLE WHO CLAIM
TO BELIEVE THE SAME THING ABOUT GOD? A LOT OF THEOLOGIANS TRY
TO INTEGRATE THOSE TWO, TO SAY THAT GOD IS BOTH IN
TIME AND YET TRANSCENDS TIME. AND THEY DO THAT BY A
RELATION OF TIME IN A TRINITY, WHERE THE TRINITY IS THE
RICH FULLNESS OF TIME. REALLY, THE TWO VIEWS - YOU HAVE
TWO SOURCES - ONE THEOLOGICAL, ONE SCIENTIFIC. THE THEOLOGICAL ONE IS CREATING
AN AUGUSTINIAN SENSE OF GOD TRANSCENDING TIME IN
ORDER TO BE ITS CREATOR, BUT THEN APPARENTLY NOT
BEING IN TIME AT ALL. OR, A MORE BIBLICAL SENSE
OF WHICH GOD IS AN ACTOR IN HISTORY. GOD IS THERE TO ANSWER. GOD LEADS THE
JEWS TO THE EXODUS. AND THE QUESTION IS, HOW
WOULD ONE BRING THOSE TOGETHER, THEOLOGICALLY? SO THERE'S A THEOLOGICAL,
PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTION. ON THE SCIENTIFIC SIDE,
THERE'S SPECIAL RELATIVITY - EINSTEIN'S 1905 THEORY. AND THAT CAUSES THE
DEBATE TO BE SIMILAR, ABOUT SCIENCE AND
PHILOSOPHY SCIENCE. SO SOME FOLKS WOULD
REALLY SAY, LOOK, RELATIVITY SAYS
THERE'S A BLOCK UNIVERSE, THERE'S NO PHYSICAL
MEANING TO THE NOW, THE PRESENT. AND EINSTEIN
HIMSELF AGREED WITH THAT. BUT OTHERS WILL SAY, NO,
THAT THERE'S GOT TO BE A WAY, THAT OUR HUMAN
EXPERIENCE OF TIME, WHICH IS JUST
KIND OF IRREDUCIBLE, IT'S JUST GIVEN, HAS TO IN
SOME WAYS HAVE A PHYSICAL BASIS, OR IT CAN'T BE
UNDERCUT BY PHYSICS. IT MAY NOT BE
REDUCIBLE BY PHYSICS, BUT IF PHYSICS AND PSYCHOLOGY
ARE SO SEPARATE THAT I REALLY AM A FLOWING TIME
CREATURE, BUT PHYSICALLY, I'M NOT, THAT MAKES NO
SENSE, SCIENTIFICALLY. SO WHAT WE FIND IS, ON
BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE, FROM A THEOLOGICAL,
PHILOSOPHICAL POINT OF VIEW, AND FROM A SCIENTIFIC AND
PHILOSOPHY OF SCIENCE POINT OF VIEW, YOU HAVE BOTH
VIEWS REPRESENTED. EXACTLY. AND THAT'S WHY IT MAKES
THIS, THE YELLOWSTONE SCIENCE CONVERSATION SO INTERESTING,
BECAUSE YOU CAN MIX AND MATCH. I MEAN, YOU'VE GOT ARGUMENTS
THAT SEEM TO BE COMING FROM SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY,
BUT THERE ARE ACTUALLY SOME THEOLOGICAL COMMITMENTS. SO SOME FOLKS WILL
ARGUE THAT GOD IS IN TIME, AND THEY MAY BE SAYING IT
BECAUSE THEY REALLY BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE TO
OBSERVE HUMAN FREEDOM, OR GOD, EFFICACY OF PRAYER,
OR THE HISTORY OF SALVATION, WHICH IS GOD ACTING IN HISTORY. BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE SAYING
BECAUSE THEY WANT TO GIVE A FLOWING VIEW OF PHYSICS,
AND THEY ARGUE AGAINST THE BLOCK UNIVERSE. SOME WILL DO IT
MORE METAPHYSICALLY. FOR EXAMPLE, PROCESS THEOLOGY
GIVES YOU A METAPHYSICAL SYSTEM IN WHICH THE WORLD IS
BECOMING, THIS DYNAMIC, THE PHRASE IS, NOTHING
BECOMES, BECOMING IS, YOU ONTOLOGIZE BECOMING. THERE'S ONLY THE MOMENT IN
WHICH THINGS BECOME ACTUAL AND CONCREST AND THEY
DIE, THEY PERISH, AND THE NEXT MOMENT
IS BORN OUT OF THEM. AND THAT GIVES YOU A PLATFORM
FOR A VERY PROFOUND VIEW OF GOD'S EXPERIENCE OF TIME. YET, EVEN IN
PROCESS METAPHYSICS, THERE'S ALSO AN ASPECT OF
GOD'S NATURE WHICH IS TIMELESS, BECAUSE ALL OF THE
PAST IS PRESENT TO GOD, AND GOD ETERNALLY PROVIDES
THE BEST POSSIBLE FUTURE TO THE PRESENT. SO PROCESS ACTUALLY DOES
COMBINE THESE TWO VIEWS OF GOD. TRINITARIAN THEOLOGIANS DO IT
BY TALKING ABOUT THE ETERNITY IN TIME, AND SAYING, ETERNITY IS
RICHER THAN EITHER TIMELESSNESS - THE AUGUSTINIAN VIEW -
OR ENDLESSLY FLOWING TIME, THAT THOSE ARE BOTH SORT
OF PIECES OF ETERNITY. IF GOD IS THE
SOURCE OF CREATION, GOD IS ALSO THE SOURCE OF TIME,
THE SOURCE CAN'T BE LESS THAN WHAT IT CREATES, RIGHT? GOD CAN'T BE LESS THAN A PERSON. GOD IS MORE THAN PERSONAL. GOD IS A GROUNDED BEING. GOD CAN'T BE LESS THAN TEMPORAL. GOD'S GOT TO BE THE
SOURCE OF TEMPORALITY, AND THEREFORE, YOU MIGHT
SAY, INFINITELY TEMPORAL. SO THIS ALLOWS YOU TO SAY, WELL,
THE RELATION BETWEEN GOD AND THE WORLD - WHICH IS TIME AND A
TRINITY - TAKES INTO ACCOUNT OUR FLOWING VIEW OF TIME,
BECAUSE GOD'S THE SOURCE OF IT, BUT ALSO ALLOWS GOD TO TRANSCEND
THAT AND TO EXPERIENCE ANOTHER WORLD, THE FUTURE. IS GOD TEMPORAL OR TIMELESS? IN TIME OR ETERNAL? BOTH OPTIONS ARE PROBLEMATIC. IF GOD IS ETERNAL, NOT
IN TIME, THE PROBLEM IS, HOW COULD GOD INTERACT TRULY
WITH THE WORLD AND WITH US, SUCH AS IN HISTORY,
AND THROUGH PRAYER? IF GOD IS TEMPORAL, IN TIME, THE
PROBLEM IS THAT GOD'S LIFE SEEMS LIMITED, WITH A
FLEETING PRESENCE, A VERY SHORT NOW, GOD HAVING
LOST THE PAST AND NOT HAVING THE FUTURE. ATHEISTS CLAIM THAT SUCH
INTERNAL CONTRADICTIONS ARE ANOTHER DEMONSTRATION
THAT GOD DOES NOT EXIST. THEISTS CONTEND THAT GOD EXISTS
ON A PLANE SO FAR SUPERIOR THAT OUR DIFFICULTIES IN
COMPREHENSION ARE NO SURPRISE. MY SENSE IS THAT,
IF THERE IS A GOD, THEN YES, SUCH A GOD WOULD BE
NOT IN TIME AND BE IN TIME - BOTH AT THE SAME TIME. YET SOMEHOW,
AVOIDING A CONTRADICTION, GETTING CLOSER TO TRUTH.
