What if Sweden Won the Great Northern War?

there once was a dream no not a dream of Rome a dream to turn the Baltic Sea into a Baltic Lake to sail from one end to the other and still remain in Sweden today there are the same five or so jokes about Sweden that Americans have one of which is Sweden's Fame neutrality but there was a time that Sweden was not only not neutral it was the dominant military power in Europe it didn't have the largest army but it did have the best and that Army carved up enough land to create the Swedish Empire it didn't last as long as the other Empires only about a century or so but it sure did leave an impression the story of Sweden's fall is directly tied to Russia's rise Sweden was directly in the way of Peter the Great in the city he wished to build the first step the Russians made to become a European power was to take down another the Great Northern war was a slog that Sweden won at first but after two decades of fighting and a few key battles it ended in the defeat of Sweden the death of their King in a trench and the loss of all this land Sweden for lack of better words never played with the big boys again setting out two world wars before inventing Ikea and then you know being Sweden but what if in an alternate timeline Sweden won the Great Northern war and kept that Empire say they remained a major player in European politics well first I just want to get this out of the way what even was the Great Northern war and how could Sweden have won it at the turn of the 18th century Sweden was at the top of the world a whole gustus Adolphus and some Victorious Wars will do that they had it pretty good for far too long and their neighbors wanted some payback enter Peter the Great Peter wished to bring Russia closer to the rest of Europe and the only way to do that was to have a Western Port and the land that he wanted called ingria was currently controlled by Sweden so a coalition was formed in in 1700 Russia Denmark Norway and polish Lithuania all simultaneously declared war on Sweden a war on a 16 year old Charles XII it was a surprisingly even fight you see Charles XII lived for war he didn't drink he didn't even have sex all Charles wanted to do was conquer he let his men personally on the battlefield just like good old gustis the Swedish military was often outnumbered but it was battle-hardened and it outsmarted and out fought their way out of any situation to sum up this 21-year conflict Sweden or really Charles won over and over again until he overplayed his hand led a failed invasion of Russia and then barely escaped with his life fleeing to the Ottoman Empire after this brief Refuge he overstayed his welcome gone arazzle dazzle with his hosts was kicked back to Scandinavia where he would get headshot in a trench in Norway like a dead corpse the buzzards pick Sweden clean apart and they lost anything that wasn't Sweden or Finland proper Sweden would lose Finland later Russia won Sweden lost Poland Lithuania continued to exist until it didn't so how could Sweden have won this war well for one it's pretty insane that they did so well to begin with Charles and his commanders went up against three opponents and for a while beat them all back even going on the offensive at times with the power of hindsight we know that Sweden should have stopped when they were ahead Peter even sent Charles a peace agreement promising to end the conflict as long as Russia could maintain a fort on the Baltic Sea that was the only thing Peter wanted out of this Charles wanting total Victory rejected it and we all know how that turned out perhaps Charles in an alternate timeline does agree to it Sweden Remains The prominent power in the Baltic while Russia is still able to build up what become Saint Petersburg the other scenario and the more drastic one is that Charles absolutely obliterates Peter the Great in the Russian army after the battle of narva and our timeline early in the war Russia miscalculated a bit and Sweden pressed against them sooner than they expected the Battle of narva was a general route in a complete disaster for Russia they were in no position afterwards to fight and Charles in response to this focused on pulling Lithuania instead he had a personal Grudge he needed to settle and it really did come back to bite him had Charles pressed his army might have taken out Peter's fighting capabilities maybe even Peter himself either capturing or killing him on the battlefield the Great Northern war may have ended up being a quick Russian blunder discrediting a czar that in our timeline became a national hero that birthed the Russian Empire so say Sweden actually wins the war what do they get out of it well for one they're able to survive but depending on how badly they beat the Russians they could move further east and take all of corellia I think mainly they would use this Victory to solidify the gains they made in the previous Century the aristocrats of Lithuania would be persuaded to be pro-swedish and not go back to being pro-polish perhaps Poland is even a puppet of the Swedish government and seeds most of their Baltic territory there are a few regions that Sweden could still expand to but even if they maintain the territory that they have this still Alters the dynamic of Eastern Europe the question now though is how long will Sweden actually hold it there's one problem that Sweden will always have to deal with one that really plagued them at the height of their empire they barely have a population Sweden's Empire was thanks to two main things one they were good at War Two their neighbors were currently bad at War for some reason or another their neighbors had been a time of turmoil and Sweden exploited it all bad times though eventually come to an end and their neighbors fought back for example if Sweden did win they'd still be in the same position they were in the beginning they're strong and their enemies aren't but that's a situation that's always going to change Sweden's neighbors could always just recover and then the process repeats Sweden gained its Empire through a series of 17th century battles which involve small armies and good commanders but how long can they maintain that with a population of 2 million Sweden's Army has never even just been all swedes it had a large percentage of fins there just aren't enough swedes to go around so an Empire of them isn't going to be a Grand Empire like France or Russia it'd just be a United collection of northern European nobility pledging loyalty to a very small Swedish Crown the Swedish would have to rely on the constant support of the livonian Lithuanian Danish and potentially polish nobility to maintain order that's a lot of things to juggle and its cracks in the armor that their neighbors would love to exploit being outnumbered would constantly be on the minds of the swedes it would dominate their foreign policy how could they mitigate this issue not live in a place where the sun only Rises for a few hours a day for one just kidding but not really this issue is pretty crippling to them there could never be a Swedish Colonial Empire they might have a few colonies here or there but that's pushing it they couldn't rule over Eastern Europe with an iron fist like Russia because there just aren't enough swedes to send into Eastern Europe their best bet would be to solidify Sweden as the head of a Scandinavian Union and then hope that with time and wealth this maintains good alliances solidifies their control this is just to maintain their hold on the north where there are barely any people I'm sorry Sabaton fans I'm sorry Charles the 12th enjoyers the Swedish Empire on the grand European stage just never could have realistically competed with the rest of the Mainland at least into the 19th and 20th centuries even with a continuous string of Genius Warrior Kings how far can the swedes really get if a single German Kingdom has 10 times the population of their entire Empire if Russia lost the Great Northern war it'd be a major blow to them temporarily but only because they don't get a head start on building Saint Petersburg and if Peter the Great was killed or lost legitimacy then that's an even bigger deal but because of Russia's population this is really just a temporary setback Russia in some form or another is going to get that Western Port so the reality here is that if Sweden remained an Empire they wouldn't be like the Russians or the British or the Germans they'd be like the Italians ever since the Napoleonic Wars Sweden has been neutral they just sat out two world wars they were in no state to take on anybody and the public generally had no strong feelings about getting involved can this neutrality in some ways be attributed to Sweden's smaller territory and presence oh absolutely a hundred percent once Sweden lost any remaining territory in the mainland they didn't even bother anymore with the rest of Europe so in this alternate timeline if they're able to maintain this territory they're very much in play against multiple foes in such a timeline if Sweden actually held on to this land it would be through a series of constant Wars with Russia up into the 20th century this area might be one of the most contested places in Europe there would be a natural rivalry between Sweden and Russia that just continues into the Modern Age Sweden would still be a second-rate power compared to the big boys but they might be just enough of an annoyance to constantly impede on Russian expansion if Russia can just never use their number advantage against a far more fortified Swedish border granted this is still incredibly unrealistic I don't really think Sweden can hold out for a few centuries against Russia but what if there was say a compromise Charles wouldn't be around forever perhaps there could be some territory Exchange in the future where Russia gets that Western Port in exchange for Sweden getting the rest of corellia or having Russia back off could the swedes decide to make such a deal and allow the Russians to potentially build a Navy in the Baltic or would they know that because of their population this land couldn't be defended forever anyway these are the alternate policies the Swedish monarching government would need to think about because for the most part Russia was going to get this land whether Sweden wanted them to or not it's just whether the swedes would get something out of it in return maybe they would be able to hold the Russians back if that was the case the Swedish Navy would be the uncontested power in the Baltic and depending on how much they unify lined with Denmark Norway they might even be the second largest Fleet in Europe does this new Navy create a potential rival for Britain especially one that is only a North Sea away maybe Sweden and Russia occasionally competing over an increasingly weaker pull in Lithuania perhaps when the split does inevitably come it's a four-way split and not between three frankly as much of a stereotype as it is that Sweden is neutral this is a relatively new thing like yeah they became neutral after the Napoleonic Wars but this also was a time of unprecedented peace throughout Europe for the most part speaking of which the second schvelzvig war was a part of Germany's Wars of unification what a stronger Sweden feel more comfortable sending in troops to beat back the prussians I'd like to imagine so they promised that they would do that in our timeline and then just didn't it so maybe if they were in a greater position with a larger population they'd feel more comfortable going after German unification so if Sweden fought against the this important aspect of German unification then what would their relation be with the German Empire in World War One what if Sweden was actually involved now this is under the assumption that the last two centuries of alternate politicking had not changed the mindset of the Swedish monarchs which you never know but considering the same mentality that existed in our timeline still prevails in this alternate one fearing the Russians I wouldn't be too shocked if a more bold Sweden entered the war on the German side we may see an extended Eastern front with a combined German and Swedish assault from corellia maybe this longer line breaks the Russian war effort even quicker than in our history if Sweden had lost the Baltic Coast in an earlier War maybe this is motivation enough to get involved could this lead to Naval Warfare between the Swedish and British navies maybe even an invasion of Norway really depends on the size of the Scandinavian modern Empire it could be enough to to tip the scales in the Central Powers favor early on but this is all depending on Alternate troop numbers and what the state of the Swedish Empire even is in by the 20th century it might be in a rough shape enough to lead to a complete counter-reaction by the population if the war goes badly one major reason Sweden was still neutral was because there was a split population was more for the Allies while the conservative government was more for the Central Powers had they actually joined the war Sweden's grain Imports would be cut creating a food crisis that could lead to the government being ousted who's to say what the ram vacations may be for Sweden if they enter the war and face a crisis that takes them out early on or even worse makes them face the same fate as the rest of the Central Powers it's possible that after centuries the Swedish Empire isn't seen so fondly by the non-swedes that actually live there but this is also under the idea that greater assimilation doesn't happen at all so that's the thing what could things look like in this alternate Sweden Sweden held on to Finland since the Middle Ages while other regions like Scandia weren't even in Swedish possession until a few centuries ago before then their lived Danes but gradual assimilation led to this region becoming fully Swedish the difference between the Scandinavian languages isn't as drastic as it is with the other language families it's very possible that if there had been a successful Grand unifier of all the Scandinavian people that this Union would be eventually seen as natural just something that happened what it means to be Swedish might be entirely different in this alternate timeline your country almost seems like the amalgamation of two or three different countries as it spends centuries assimilating and evolving alongside Norwegians and Danes I'm not saying those languages are ethnic differences entirely disappear it's just that the national identity of it all isn't as distinct after centuries of unification though resentment and calls for Independence probably still exist just like they do in any Nation with multiple different groups cough UK cough what I might imagine is that Sweden would have held these lands since the 17th century so the cultural and economic ties throughout the Baltic evolve around the concept of the Empire something that lasts for so long it might develop into a national identity of its own where Sweden even ends and begins as up to debate now I know for any non-swedes this concept is absolutely terrifying but that is just the strange reality this might lead to a Sweden that is never neutral and is a frequent player past the Napoleonic Wars potentially even an enemy of Britain and Russia one that might be so powerful it would be despised by the people of the Baltic today like the Russian Empire or the USSR okay probably not as as bad as the USSR but still wouldn't be liked if the Swedish Empire had survived it wouldn't have done dominated Russia or taken over Central Europe but it could have carved up a small Niche for itself in northern Europe controlling a place where barely anybody lives no matter the alternate timeline you just can't have a large population in the Frozen North sorry Charles today what we would call Sweden might be synonymous with Scandinavia itself and nobody would even know what a fin is oh hey Cody nordvpn wait what nordvpn is the sponsor of today's video wait that's how you're gonna start the sponsor no lead-in no witty banter hi you know Jimmy it's been a long month for me my AC went out things are just kind of difficult right now oh I'm so sorry to hear that I I shouldn't have been so rude thanks Jimmy I appreciate it sometimes people have off days I'm human I'm sometimes unreliable but you know what isn't nordvpn nor VPN the sponsor of today's video nordvpn is a virtual private Network that can hide your IP address and keep you safe when browsing the web pick from thousands of servers all around the world with their Ultra fast connection you can choose from anywhere without weight that comes in handy when watching streaming sites from other regions Japanese Netflix when you aren't on streaming sites make sure you're safe from any potential malware with nordvpn's cybersec it's safe to use as your data will never be compromised with nordvpn right now every purchase of a two-year plan will receive a huge discount plus four bonus months for free just click on the link in the description and go to nordvpn.com althist it's risk free with nordvpn's money back guarantee man I'm sorry about that Jimmy I think I just had to get that out of my system it's fine Cody I just wish you used me more in videos you know and not at the end of just these sponsor bets norvpn.com althist I'm sorry I had to I had to say it okay please continue Jimmy [Music] thank you [Music]

Channel: AlternateHistoryHub

Views: 1,122,569

Keywords: Swedish Empire, Sweden, Sweden alternate history, alternate history, alternate history hub, alternatehistoryhub, alternatehistoryhub sweden, swedish empire, great northern war, What if Sweden Won the Great Northern War?, northern war, charles, alternate history swedish empire, great northern war alternate history, history, swedish history

Id: vqyMScaqeO8

Length: 18min 11sec (1091 seconds)

Published: Sat May 20 2023