We Have Questions 🤔 - SHOGUN - Episode 10 Reaction and Discussion : A Dream of a Dream

it was lady Maria lady Maria oh it was Maro it was Maro that was that was what he called her she asked the church to spare your life before y ma let me tell you OG triple OG the one what's going on it's your boy s with Intel and you already see Rai is in the building what's going on Champion hello Governor Hey listen it is midnight here and it is late but you L it was not going to stop us from watching Shogun cuz this is the season finale of sh it might be series finale oh yes I don't think they I don't think they're doing anymore yeah that is absolutely true this is the series finale this is it the end all the the the done dun so make sure you stay to the very end because you know me and RI we going to chop it up have a bit of a back and forth a review if you will over things we've enjoyed about this episode and series as a whole uh and also things that we scratching their heads about so without any further Ado let's get started man let me tell you something about last episode boy episodes nine and eight it's just been Banger after Banger after it's just I don't even know what to do with myself so you know I'm pretty excited about this episode y if out of pocket and I don't care was a person mhm nah not me couldn't be me oh I can't believe it not like this girl not like this let me tell you something about love if you don't love me enough to be my second you don't love me you don't hey that right there is so deep that's a whole different level why is it CH are we in the future used it to fight off a whole Army ofje assassins black is that black th huh is it the future or is he just dreaming uh yes that is him that's him what it really given to you by a Savage yeah he's clutching on that cross now regardless how he felt previously dang so what oh yeah that's after the uh the cannon went off he gonna be sick when he see her Ma's all over the place you your loyal servant she was a real one man she was a real one if I could pour out a little Li for I would oh somebody else son oh no that's not a son and this coward you disappoint me yabu I thought you was thought you was buil to sterer stuff that part you just aemp I don't care how cool you walk across how did he already have that oh it probably came in by pigeon oh man you got the people against you now a man you canot scramble these eggs dishonorable attack what and see she knows right it wouldn't surpris me if it was LE cha that did it though either because it because it it forces kind of everybody to look at Theo a little bit see I don't know man I think Le CH might she pulls his whole car so easily oh some divine intervention war is inevitable there right there show every about God don't like intervention yep living your shame and he know he's shameful he knows it yeah man do to say whatever he no longer wants it no just happen [Applause] I'm in a shell shock yeah what is going on with him you think he's shell shock from the blast or you think he's just so tormented that he's just jacked up in his head I think he's tormented they go I'm going get Bandits huh why am I receiving this permission from Lord K where is AB he is preparing the gal in oaka Bay I have come to bring you to him the lady OA has pledged her son's support toranaga will be dead in weeks then you don't know y [Laughter] toaga you will leave oaka alive why you'll have to forgive me if I'm having some trouble accepting anything on your word right you think he's doing this from Mao BR why yeah because I can't imagine and who made the arrangement cuz tanaga don't have the juice to make the arrangement well I mean cath have him in hand and he is the biggest threat to all of the Catholics so why would they let why are they let him go back to Osama it was lady Maria lady Maria oh it was Maro it was Maro that was that was what he called her she asked the church to spare her life before y ma let me tell you OG triple OG the one I have kept my word to her y Good Wife she a real one man yeah well I guess when she came there she already knew what was going down so just didn't go down the way she thought it was going to go down but she knew it was going down well she loved him in her own weird different kind of way yeah oh yeah that's hitting you to the Bone right oh that's tough gave that man that cooking you let a real one go oh boy yeah yeah but you know when you got one like that in your heart and in your mind oh he G to get back here and talk so reckless to to n he going to forget Eng you trying to run pull yourself together man oh that's the black ship isn't it no no that's the Rasmus that's blacko ship yeah that is the aosmi isn't it oh only about to do a hostile takeover huh that dude is he gone in the head anyways he know what he did dang taga boy is cleaning house right now were those all of the Englishmen was that his old no that's like Japanese though H people the people who helped them those are good death that's crazy really you dang he looked at him disapprovingly Maro be dropping a hot 16 yes she did she [Music] made where you gonna go talk Ras he's stuck right now I mean obviously he's not because we see the we saw the future of him you know at home dying as an old man but I don't know if that picture though I think that was just his cussion I think that was just him tripping like yeah you and your feelings right now you gave it to him remember the last time he resisted and was like nah like stop looking for the sabator to convert to the religion of of the Portuguese so I took the name muraj and moved here well at least you're not Catholic but I am wow I don't even want you Brea in the same air I do I want you sip in my a no I don't give you permission to die M let's see how far you would go you have learned my friend M now finally now you're Hamot now you're one of us yeah he was going to you understand yeah yeah but you know but that's the thing too you have to be taken to the line you have to be willing to cross the line up until that point I don't believe you anything you said are words death P that's crazy you get ready to commit your own death you got to write you a hot 16 yeah man wow oh Lord he like you're just a Savage my P say the real isue I ever wrote I wish for you to get a herir unit on the top to cover that fix that hole in your natural you trained him he like even now you just can't take one compliment [Laughter] yeah but you were stupid oh so he was on the [Music] wow fore fore fore that's a study it yeah yeah lady [Music] which also means I knew that you will betray me J yes the big picture ban you've been defeated he will be the unlawful one even yeah you played your part yeah fore [Laughter] for yeah foree for unless I win anything is possible yeah that was a bar oh here's the question h remember they said there was three hearts every Japanese person has yeah is time my friend that time tell a dead man in the future so gangster you know what this is I better won hack away like I did when I was a child I know how to do this now mhm yeah oh quick [Music] decisive goodbye clean with honor man yeah man with honor wow get that blood off her Sully my Blade with the likes of your blood you was killed by real oh he did that so sweet it's the only time we've actually seen him do violence here tell me I've always been of the mind that are soul committed to the Deep every time I see a shot of a robo like that I always think of a the God yedo so oh that's his that's her uh husband and baby's Ash mhm remember she was supposed to bury him but she kept him to feel close to him but now that she's leaving their life behind and going to the convent to become a nun it's time also to put them to rest to let that go any the way anytime she comes to that lake or whatever she'll be close close to them m h raise the ROP I know you're tired but Tides come up some so we'll try again there you go okay sh [ __ ] try to pull that boat I don't know what they trying to do they trying to pull that boat in you need a whole village that is a game of tug of war we need more water I told they can rest oh that bonaro yeah we haven't seen him in a minute you was with her when she oh wow what a gesture yes this is wonderful Ra's the ropes nor like you miserable sniveling the [Laughter] string he said don't don't tra translate [Applause] [Applause] [Music] that he's like uh I will let him play his games till I burn it again [Music] mhm it's definitely it's not his fate to leave Japan yeah it's a testament to the to the engine's uh determination though give him that yeah bontar g drink from the flask yeah something to share saki [Music] right oh that's not s that's just good old water those little bamboo shoots are so cool [Music] [Music] so much is said in a head [Music] nod black people must have got that cuz you Ain even got we can have whole conversations with a head man [Music] if you're watching this on YouTube You're Going to see a cut down version of our reaction because we're only allowed to show you a limited amount of picture and picture but if you want to watch the whole thing with us uncut uninterrupted head over to our patreon page at patreon.com sentel become a member of this channel you'll get access to the full uncut reaction but you will need your own Netflix HBO Max or Disney Plus subscription so you can open up each episode in an adjacent window to our reaction we'll give you a little time with a small reference video at the bottom of the screen to help you sync up the footage and it'll be like you're watching it with your favorite Pals from the internet okay that was interesting for an ending all right so that was uh the season finale series finale of Shogun um off the top of my head I'll say it did not go the way that I thought um a part of me did expect there to be some type of like a combat toron Nago sending his troops in to initiate you know the final the final push in order for him to to I guess uh free the country from from the tyrannical ideas of of isido that didn't really happen it stayed a calculated battle um there is something to be said about him being so ahead of the game so smart that he could get what he want without drawing a sword there is something to that now I don't know if it met my expectations because I wanted to I wanted to see heads roll but there is a beauty to it um I'm curious I'm very curious as to what you think about this ending I think it is one of the best endings ever okay okay say more because I stay true to form I think me okay like your self would have preferred would have loved to have seen a war drawn out but the whole purpose of everything toaga was to avoid a war and the loss of life there is no point in losing a life and anyone dying that did not have to die so the fact that he fought a war without fighting a war his p a Bruce lero honest I have I have mastered the art of fighting without knowing how to fight like uh the people don't realize how or even understand to the full depth of how pivotal how important lady Maro was it was more than just about exposing ishido it was more than just about freeing the hostages she touched her friend's heart OA Nakata has held a grudge for years years and years and she said uh Maro was her heart and then Mao was taken away from her and I guess what she didn't understand and she blamed all of that on uh toranaga which he may have known I mean I'm sure that he did know what her what maro's father was going to do oh yeah yeah he knew but that don't mean he planned it as a matter of fact he saved that man's life when he was going to go through and do it and it wouldn't have had any meeting at all I don't know it's just uh the whole thing with um and again because this is um history oh excuse me because this is history it does somewhat um mirror history MH um there was an actual battle however unbeknownst to the you know the Lord ashido um uh the Lord of shidos I want to say his younger brother turned on him so much like not flying with the banner of the the young Tao right and not having support that this was lawful um it did happen um that everyone turned on him and that it was so that it was unlawful and he was left out there and instead of taga being out there being a sole Army against four armies the Five Armies that he could not fight um asido was essentially left out there with okay um yeah uh also uh who black Thor was based on um William Adams okay he never did leave uh Japan okay um he did uh remember um he was given a Thom okay um and he stayed uh in his thief and I want to say there are some artifacts and maybe even a statue or something okay of him um because he remained loyal and in service for the rest of his life he was a vassel forever right [Music] huh I don't know just uh I I think that as a western culture we want to see the blood and you know it it made our little hearts just filled with delight to see a a battle that toranaga you know standing over ashido and his stabbing stabbing him in the heart or you know taking his head off in battle right but the beauty of this is that that is exactly everything that he sought to avoid okay all right let me let let let me step in for a second feel mine um I'm going to play Devil's Advocate I'm G to play Devil's because I already know I've got a really good idea of what the social space with social media what the Twitter verse is going to say you said something that's very important in Western belief that we believe that you know you got to get your pound of Flesh you got to get your get back you know Cersei has to get her revenge kind of thing as we talked about uh in in in Game of Thrones and even though there is Beauty in this ending there is a sense of not feeling satisfied you you you you said something about Cersei and you wanted her to get her you wanted that Revenge because maybe it is a western culture and I know we're going to be getting those those RS I can feel it because because a part of me does feel that as well I certainly understand what you're saying and I agree that that is an important way to go about it that Toran Naga did win in the end by being nonviolent but there's some things are left like left unresolved um unresolved with the plight of the Catholic church and their position within the within the country unresolve with bonaro and his relationship with Maro we had a you know a knowing nod and you know we kind of kept it moving you know unresolve with Omi and what his next step is going to be and what that means to to toranaga uh is he did he satisfy like his bit of Revenge that he had a little bit towards his uncle is he going to achieve what he wants to be there's a there's unresolve with with Blackthorne and the shadiness of his flashbacks or maybe he was having a moment of of of uncertainty due to the trauma of seeing marico's death um this is a medium where you have to show and not tell and is and I certainly appreciate the the the hot bars and the hot 16 that they drop you you know with some of the poems and all of that and and Tor Naga telling us what's going to happen within a month but this is a visual medium you have to show it you just you just you just have to especially with something is epic and as large as this I do think tor's plan is brilliant I do but I don't know if that is going to translate to the masses regarding the season finale I certainly enjoyed the season finale and for many of the reasons that what you've said but I would be dishonest if I said I wasn't disappointed uh and seeing some of those questions something being resolved because this is a series finale not a season finale there's not going to be anything else attached to this um fortunately for those that are reading the book you know I'm sure maybe it ties up I haven't finished the book the books are crazy big like in case you haven't seen in case you don't know like just one book this is part one and this is part two like there is a lot a whole lot of information that's gone into this series um so for the book readers I'm sure there may be a bit more satisfaction and a little bit more understanding as to the events that have occurred but that was a lot of information to wrap up in one episode and then expect us to be like oh I get it completely without their without a scratching her heads it does feel like this episode should have been two episodes maybe I feel like there needs to be something else to kind of like be explained um but of course you know I'm being Devil's Advocate but there's a lot of Truth in that in that advocacy as well I am very curious as to what everybody in the chat thinks I wouldn't give this episode a 10 personally for me I would probably give it a seven for me and and I come from somebody that doesn't believe in seven so you either have to pick six or eight so let me see if I had to pick so I couldn't pick seven it'd probably be closer to an eight it's not a six it's definitely not that but yeah so I'd say an eight I'd give it an eight out of out of 10 and that's more so um with the attachment of the amazing out of this world storytelling that episodes 1 through n gave me 98 are some of the best some of the best TV I've seen in quite some time I just wish I left feeling a heightened emotion in something other than just just resolve or just like okay well that happened it kind of feels like oh okay but I am curious please please come from my throats I I'm looking forward to you all attacking me and letting me know how wrong I am and I'm curious to see why I wrong I am looking forward to that oh anything else you you want to say real quick uh regarding what I've said or just the series or the episode as a whole um if I were to write this episode on it alone on its merits I would give it a nine okay not perfect and some of what you said has Merit I think the as a western culture we've gotten very used to that to see our protagonist always get his pound of Flesh we've gotten used to the Clint Eastwood the you know whatever um that that come up it's happens and that's why we get upset when Cersei doesn't get what we feel that she was justly do um but the whole point of this entire series was not that um Black Thorn did not ride in on you know he was not the hero of the series as most western um uh tellings do you know you got this Caucasian man in Japan and he will say them all he's going to be the most important vassel to uh tanaga and tanaga could have done any of it without him and that is not the case the most important was Lady Maro Crimson sky was done yushika is still trying to figure out the plan like oh we we going to you know least tell me y'all going to ride out you know and this and that like you know no bro the plan is already happened done catch [Laughter] up and that is the beauty of this and that is what we have a hard time reconciling and that's why uh episode 10 probably will not be satisfying to most people cuz you want to see some Bloodshed you want to see them the Christians try to come for Black Thorn and him fight him off or him die in the woods wanted to see toranaga and aido personally go at it but this wasn't about that at all you know and the thing is one of the reasons that we don't understand it is probably most of us are a lot closer to yushika than we' be willing to admit woo woo now there's a bar there's a bar most people are really only looking out for self and the whole concept of the Loyalty the honor the Integrity the sacrifice that each one of these characters took on and even being a vasel tanaga we have very little understanding of this world whatsoever um I had another point but I'm not going to make it only because only only because that will be reserved for binge worthy this week because it's not my point to make um is a small debate that Chuck and I had um and even in my understanding he shed a light on me well I will I'll say it like this you know Chuck spent some time living in Japan MH there one thing to understand the culture from the outside or think you understand but it's another thing to be immersed in the culture and see firsthand even in the 21st century to see firsthand after World War II most people don't have a real understanding unless you're a a history bus Germany surrendered Japan did not Japan was like no in 1945 bro we still Samurai uh didn't nobody say we not committing sepu we not no what did taga say he said yeah the the fight is pointless M unless I win unless I win they wern't giving up hence the reason we dropped two atomic bombs on them we need you to get our Point your fight is pointless we dropped those bombs three days apart those weren't back to back they weren't the same time before you even had chance to catch your breath from the first one here y'all go dropped another one just to make just to let you know the first one went the fluke we B that life and then still they still didn't formally formally surrender for 6 days after that one of the conditions of World War II was that we took away their military they were a little bit too dangerous their way of life they have been a military force for thousands of years they was about that life we took away their military of people who have been about that life for thousands of years M because we took away their military do you think they stopped being about that life absolutely not they just changed it the same way in America we never change slavery slavery exists to this day it's just called prison now and Samurai lifestyle still exists in Japan it's just in the corporations now what's that Japan owns over 60% of New York City owns New York City okay they are fighting a whole different war on a whole different front that we don't even begin to understand well there's a that kind of coincides to what I kind of wanted to say regarding T nag he say something that was very important and there was there was a question that was raised that has been raised in the comments as well uh and that is is Torin naga's intention really true that he doesn't want to become Shogun or is this a part of his plan to fame that he wants to become Shogun and then have this masterful ceremony of of cool things to unfold to allow him to get that he never answered that question but he did give a very interesting perspective and uh not sorry Noto I'm sorry um oh my gosh oh sorry I forgot his name sorry uh yabu excuse me yabu had asked him he was like yo um is this is this your plan to to really become Shogun and and and T Naka in Tanaka's way said listen I don't try to control the wind he's no no no no no yo no Yu say how is it that you can get the wind to do your bidding that's what it was taga said I don't try to control the wind uh but I do study it it's like course I'm not trying to force my will onto these things I see what happens I see how nature works I see how people work there's a reason why he's a falconer and why he treats men like he treats Falcons uh he studies these things he studies nature he studies how things move and then he makes decisions based off of that study he didn't say he didn't want to become Shogun can you say he wanted to either but I believe if the wind blew in the right way and he had to make a decision in order to become Shogun for the for the greater good of whatever it is that's going on in torog's mind maybe it's for the greater good of Japan or the greater good of something else taga would entertain it so to come back to your story about saying like the Samurai and you never leaves or the law of conservation of energy energy can't be created or destroyed it just changes forms you know that mentality kind of still maintains they that the the samurai mentality may they may not be invoking their will to be samaris in the open they are studying paying attention to everything and putting themselves in a position to make the best decision with the information that's been given and that is what Tor Naga has been doing it's so funny because you see so many times in these movies and TV shows you see like Hannibal from the at I love it when a plan comes together he's got everything step by step by step by step by step T do is not really like that he is a few steps ahead but it's not this master plan that he's got like 35 steps ahead and he just knows move to move to move to move that's not how he works he's got a couple of cool ideas and he's like I'm going go this way and I'm going see how it pans out there's one thing you can say about Tor nag is that he's patient he's like I'm going to go in this direction I'm going to take a couple of steps and look around and see what works and see what works and that's what we're seeing which I think is a lot different from from the whole Kaiser Soul you see the map everything pulled out and K and and and verbal turns his foot and walks into the sunset that's not toranaga he's is a different kind of brilliant he's brilliant he's like a he's like a freestyler you know uh uh there's some there are some MC's that can write an amazing rap just just boom boom boom boom boom there's others that are just dope in the moment they're freestylist taga is like that he's a freestyler he's the best in the business he'll drop his bar see what else moves study the crowd see the look on the dude's face and just keep dropping hot ones and keep dropping hot ones until he wins it's probably one of the few times I've actually seen somebody win like that somebody that doesn't have everything just completely mapped out or somebody that's just 100% reactive or looks their way into things you know he studies everything all right that's my last final thought is there anything else you wanted to conclude before we wrap this bad boy up I disagree oh beautiful that's what I'm talking about hit me with it man say more much like a Grandmaster okay he is so many not just a few so many steps ahead however he is able because he has so studied his opponents and studied the conditions you know just like the wind Anything Can Happen the wind can change direction any moment um you cannot have a leld plan that is so rigid that an earthquake happens and takes out half of your army that part and now you be like well we just going to go forward with the plan the thing is in studying the wind now I have to Pivot but in pivoting you already had so many options so many openings that were available to you okay now you have to study and figure out which one is the best course of action um I I think in again in the Western World I think we're so used to seeing these [Music] um these huge masterminds who have everything laid out and everything goes absolutely the plan and I I think that's BS for the most part that if anything it is more like a toranaga um I think even you know our government works that way you know we we think that it works like Palpatine we think that it works like kaisra so and that all these things laid out and I already I already knew everything you were going to do and no you got to be a psychic that's Supernatural that's not that's not real but in being more like toranaga certain things swing your way certain people's actions always move a certain way I mean just think about yabu did what he did right mm but it wasn't that Toran Naga knew that yabu was going to do what he did Yu got snitched on somebody saw you letting them in and they sent a pigeon back one of the chicks that was in the cellar she heard you say you was just guilt stricken and asked for forgiveness she sent a letter to ow me those are not things that taga knew was going to happen he didn't know that but ah thank you for the added piece of information I got people everywhere you know that and that's more instead of like that's more like um back to Game of Thrones that's more like Littlefinger he had the kids Des spies everywhere because there's no nothing more important than information information is power and that was what toranaga was good at he was good at Gathering all the information and then making the best plan possible from the information is gathered and being able to know the nature of the other people that he had around him or you know like you said he studied the wind he know what it was going to do yeah but he studied it and he was prepared if it blew West this what I'm going to do if it blows East this is what I'm going to do so just I just take a a different okay um different take on it so I I feel that I think I think we're we're almost talking about the same thing but I can certainly see the differences that that that that you're talking about I respect that that's that's dope um I respect it this how much I respect you changing my mind you're making me rethink the episode as a whole uh it is better than I expected it to be and you're a th% right regarding a westernized belief of Storytelling and how a leader is supposed to lead and as I'm sitting here and I'm saying it out loud and I'm talking about maybe maybe torog freestyling his way into doing things and being patient and you countering and stuff it it brings out a larger it brings out the bouquet of the story if that makes sense about if we were over here sniffing wines I can I can really smell the bouquet now and I do need to give it a lot more credit than than it has it's just the initial shock is what it is it's like dang that's not what I wanted this is different this tastes different I don't hate it and but us a little bit they they let they showed us in a vision of what would happen a month from now they they showed them lining up to go to war and they showed you know how that was going to play out for ashido you know um we still got to see uh uh you know Yabo's head roll from his body um but not 12 hacks not one oh it was clean too it and it was the only violence we really seen taga do please correct me in the chat if I'm wrong about that only one that I can remember I don't remember him being the person that does violence he's just the person that orchestrates things to happen and sometimes they become violent um all right hey this is a good place to kind of stick stick a pin in this man I cannot thank you all enough for taking this journey with us one through 10 of arguably one of the greatest series I'm sure this is probably going to be in a lot of people's top FES goated lists a lot of top 10 goated lists I'm curious if it even makes uh any of your lists this experience would not be what it is if it wasn't for my incredible co-host RI Rai you have such a great way of broadening my my ideas and my thoughts regarding the things that I'm seeing I feel so confident in some of the things that I say and then you'll say something in the way that you say it that makes me be like just pause think about it like this and and it just makes viewing that much more fun and I know I'm not the only person that thinks that please you know um give a give a thumbs up to to to Rai in the chat just for for the the the great things and the Great Value that that you bring to this experience man uh thank you man and I think you all would be doing yourselves an injustice if you didn't dig in a little deeper into this brilliant man's brain by going to his YouTube channel and checking it out because his deep Dives are really good you really get a chance to see him unfilter without me always interrupting his flow and you can really check them out thank you if you're a fan of this channel hit the subscription button and of course the thumbs up you know my whole spill but but for real for real h on over uh to rai's channel Rai tell the people how they get in contact with you man um uh before I do that I do want to say that I appreciate um our our banter back and forth um and in the same way you help me uh look at things in a way that I wouldn't necessarily look at them um if it is good to bounce things back and forth uh and I appreciate that immensely um this platform is excellent and I enjoy watching all this great content with you um I will have a my own uh I don't know if it's a deep dive but I will have my own analysis of this particular episode so if you look if you have not now that you're finished watching this particular video uh look in the at the pin comment um to uh watch my video um just so I can talk about this a little bit more um I'm sad that this series is over with but it has been an absolute Joy uh to watch um you can catch me on all social media my patreon my YouTube page at youtube.com noop from nille n u p e f r o m d a v i l l e because it's all about this and all about this right here oh gotta love it listen don't worry if you can catch all that there'll be a link in the description you can get to it quick and it's clickable as soon as you hit there get to his page see in all the Splender hit that subscription button uh hey I know the patreons are like yo you ain't give nothing for us but I am going to give something for y'all because we got so much more content coming I just wanted to make sure we thanked Everybody by giving them the full expanse and if you do want to hear a deeper conversation regarding these conversations that we were having headit on over to the patreon you won't be disappointed thank you so much and we'll catch you on the next project all right y'all take care peace

Channel: Syntell

Views: 21,440

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Id: dNwdp_ma7NQ

Length: 57min 36sec (3456 seconds)

Published: Tue Apr 23 2024