Voron 2.4 Vs V-Core 3 Full Comparison Tested

this right here is a vehicle 3 by wrap rig a premium core xy fdm 3d printer kit and this one right here is the voron design v2.4 which is also a premium core xy fdm 3d printer that you build yourself they cost about the same they use the same control board the same hotend same build volume and pretty similar components but they are still surprisingly different today i'm going to compare the voron 2.4 and rat reek v core 3 as deeply as possible providing as much insight as i can on things like sourcing building printing and upgrading as well as some tips tricks and recommendations and of course comparing the print quality if you get to the end and still have questions fill in the q a form in the description and i'll answer those in a special q a live stream specifically on this topic if you want to discuss with other users or just be ready for that live stream subscribe down below and join the vector3d discord also linked in that description [Music] this video is sponsored by filamento the filament has a high percentage of recycled content 100 in the case of this rabs100 every filament's full is 100 recyclable cardboard meaning less plastic waste and with ecology they are planting trees and funding climate crisis solutions offsetting one kilogram of co2 for every one kilogram of plastic salt change your environmental impact today with filamentif via the link in the video description every print shown in today's video was printed using filamented filament [Music] while the 2.4 and v core 3 are both referred to as 3d printers which they are they're also more than that as they have a number of different configuration options either from the original design like the manufacturer or just modifications making them kind of more like an ecosystem than just a printer this makes direct comparison nylon impossible because like what components do you choose do you go with like some community decision the lowest price ones the highest spec do you include mods well there just isn't really a simple answer so what i'm going to do is provide you details on my printers so you know what i'm printing with but i'll be also trying to compare these two entire ecosystems i'm also going to drop in special mentions for mods or upgrades that solve or improve performance after all you'll be building this printer so you might as well build it the best it can be well at least according to my opinion to give you an overview of what these two printer ecosystems look like on screen now is a table of all the important specifications that i think you need to know about these two printers where there are options i've highlighted in bold the one that i'm using if nothing's bold then everything applies i have modified both of my printers at this point so neither of them are the standard design anymore the v core 3 is fitted with all abs parts each of which has some minor modifications that i've done myself to improve printability and assembly the fads are replaced with better quality ones that should last longer i fitted a dragon high flow the pre-production one and octopus control board running clipper with a raspberry pi 4. i should note that these are available without mods some of them like the last ones after the dragon hotend it's just not on the original machine that i was given so i've added those in to make them to the spec that i think is better my v 2.4 is modified with a hot pcb board for xy end stops extruder and zedon stops i've also modified some of the cable management and drag chains added led lights and use these kind of hinges with screw pins this does still use octopus dragon high flow and raspberry pi 4 with clipper so that's the same for both printers literally identical [Music] the first time you looked into voron you probably noticed the tiny aesthetic and fast print videos and started googling for kits don't worry you're not the only one that did that however you probably found out quite quickly that things weren't quite right as you couldn't find the voron shop there's a pretty good reason for that there isn't one if you want a voron you typically need to follow the standard sourcing guide or region specific ones to buy all of the parts yourself things are changing though as unofficial kits are starting to appear and specialist shops have like partial kits of the things that they specialize in full kits obviously have the advantage of making sourcing incredibly simple but one downside for example is that if you want one component slightly different you can't exclude it from the kit you have to buy the one you want on top of everything that's already in the kit which was a big downside for me as i wanted quite a few changes out of what the kit offered what i did was buy partial kits from these specialist sellers for example pouch the kind of belt supplier can supply all the belts pulleys shafts and idlers in a single kit labelled as a four on 2.4 kit this reduces the number of orders you have to track your risk of buying the wrong spec it allows you to choose your supplier if there's multiple options available and can potentially net you a small discount because it's all in one kit so maybe saving on shipping at least at the time of filming that is exactly what i recommend you do the only other thing you need is the printed parts all in abs ah don't worry though if you don't have a printer that can reliably print abs or even abs plus then you can use the print it forward service piff or printer forward is set up by vora it's a more of a community driven effort though in their own words by maintaining rigorous defined standards for part providers as well as having an initial vetting process foreign design can ensure people receive high quality functional parts basically you tell them the printer you're getting and the colors you want and they'll do all the printing there can be a pretty long queue for these parts but the prices have been good and the quality that i received was actually really fantastic so what about rat rig you just buy a kit and it'll come in eight weeks right well it's not quite that simple ever since the launch of the vcore 3 rat rig have had trouble keeping up with demand the reason for this keeps changing but it does continue to be true 12 weeks plus for shipping and delivery does not seem to be uncommon also the kit isn't quite complete one of the key components in the assembly of the electronics is the panel which your ssr control board power supply etc all that stuff will mount to and it's just not included while there are drawings available on the github you're left to find your own supplier i use dibond aluminium composite for mine which is quite easy to mark and cut with a jigsaw and you can often get off cuts from places like ebay or just local general suppliers it's often used for signage so you might want to check companies that do that kind of stuff the printed parts from rat rig are all petg which is five for an open machine but if you opt for their enclosure which is a separate kit then you'll probably want abs or abs plus unfortunately there isn't any service to get these so asking the community 3d printing bureau or doing it yourself are basically your options you could fully build in petg first print an aes abs plus on that and then rebuild but that's pretty costly and time consuming to do comparing the two printers the quality of printed ford is definitely better than the standard rat rig parts print it forward use more perimeters and infill for added strength abs is used throughout and the printers are really well dialed in for high quality damage to parts during assembly was much more common with rat rig than it was with the voronoi bits if you want to self-source your own rat rake you can definitely do that but it's not really set up for that quite like the voron is meaning some parts are basically still best purchased from wrap rig the idlers for example are custom made as are some of the metal plates which kind of are used at the interfaces the simple plates can be diy but please don't underestimate the challenge in making them well aliexpress shops are starting to appear though so you may want to keep your eyes peeled if you source idlers that use more generic geometry you may want to consider the self-sourced xy printed parts mod by eight complex and that'll be linked below overall you might save a little cash if you self-source but honestly if you want to keep the risk low and quality high buying a single kit seems to be still the best choice if you're interested in exactly what components to buy watch the end of the video for now i have some tips for self-sourcing parts number one voron and rat rig unofficial discord both have sourcing guides for like multiple regions so pay attention to these and also ask questions about anything you're not quite sure about you don't want to be buying the wrong bits secondly buy the most difficult to source parts first trust me there's nothing worse than having everything you need like borrowing this one piece that's out of stock and the price is going up and all this kind of stuff just by the most difficult bits first thirdly buy more screws than you need and please don't buy them from aliexpress the reason being hardness and tolerance of screws is important and often overlooked by the aliexpress suppliers so find somewhere local that supplies decent quality and go for bright zinc plated as these are the best choice in my opinion number four if printing your own parts check you can get appropriate sizing and tolerancing before printing the whole batch in the wrong size with holes that are too small and number five get some decent tools what you could probably assemble with an all-in-one tool you've got out of a christmas cracker you'll have a more enjoyable time if you don't there's no need to spend loads on vera tools something middle of the road will still make for a really good experience speaking of assembly both the voron and rap rig took a similar time to build for me on live streams about 30 to 35 hours but i'd expect maybe 20 to 30 when building it yourself at home diving into the rat rate first they use an online dazzuki manual and it's pretty good it has everything you need laid out step by step and short parts lists as you go which is really nice being online it also allows for small updates at any time the weakest part of the manual is the frame assembly assembling the frame square is critical to fast quiet motion and low wear on the linear rails but the rig process assembles the most critical components last by which time they just go where they can go and in my opinion it should be updated so that the most critical parts of the frame where the xy rails mount is built first and the rest of the frame just fits to it i don't really care if my electronics area is a little bit wonky as long as the rails are perfectly square the other limited part of the manual is the wiring there just isn't really much more than a single diagram to help you i do have this all covered in my live streams though so you can follow along there if you need a little bit more help like the wrap rig the frame assembly on the voron is also challenging to get it square but the use of blind joints does help this a little bit the issue here is that when tightening the screws there is a tendency for the frame to kind of twist or rotate so it's definitely still not perfect continuing with the boron the assembly manual is well not so good policy assembly just weren't very clear and some steps had a lot going on making it quite difficult to follow some sections are also quite fiddly to do they're just not that easy the good thing is having had a quick scan through the trident manual the detail level in the assembly steps seems to be much clearer so this looks optimistic for the future one good example of the v 2.4 design is the tensioner latch on the zed motors this little latch just presses flush with the frame as you assemble the motor and perfectly tensions the belts it's really simple and effective and really just pretty good one strange admission from both manuals was some detailed instructions on lubrication for an explicitly state two separate lubricants in the bomb but those i couldn't find or didn't see or i just missed where to use them or how to use them or how to apply them compare this to the caribou printer which i made last year which came with lubricant special tools plus assembly steps on how to use them lubricants are an important part of printer longevity and so i'd like to see this reflected on the assembly manuals for both printers rounding off the assembly segment i often found that the rat wig screw holes were a little bit too tight to insert the screw and then also a bit too tight on the head to tighten them properly which was a bit annoying with the voron the hole sizes were much more appropriate and despite the much higher complexity everything fitted just fine the issues with the rat wig were definitely in part due to the printed parts i was provided from those early batches but there are also some ambitious tolerances in the cad design i have my own set of very slightly modified parts that fix this on my github page so that's it for the sourcing and assembly let's move on now to the setup and configuration getting things kicked off with the firmware the voron 2.4 design calls for a raspberry pi to run clipper and two skr 1.4 control boards to give the necessary seven stepper drivers needed to control all the motors independently meanwhile in the rat rate camp the default configuration utilizes a duet 3 mini 5 plus and mini 2 plus expansion running reprap firmware and no raspberry pi however i'm not using either of these configurations for the rat rake right here what the duet 3 and mini 5 plus is a good control board the rat reconfiguration is not perfect and the community has been focused on other options so it's just overall a little bit less mature moving to the bigger tech octopus and raspberry pi 4 gave me an opportunity to try out vcore os which is called write os by the time this video is released this is essentially a pre-configured raspberry pi image with just a few clipper things to configure in the setup mikhail schmidt the author and maintainer of the ratawest project should be applauded for their efforts put into this it makes clipper and vcor3 very approachable the ongoing development efforts into rs is honestly fantastic and i look forward to trying it i'm still running the vcore os on the voron side contrary to popular belief two is in fact not better than one swapping out two control boards for a single one makes things a bit easier to set up and configure and at the very least is easier easier to understand and less daunting firmware setup is a little bit more involved on the road but not too difficult really all of the steps required on the clipper and boron website are both very clear and pretty easy to follow typically getting started with a new control board would be a little bit more involved but fortunately big tree tech have provided a conflict file for the octopus this configuration wasn't perfect but spending some time running through the detailed setup instructions does get this all pretty much ironed out overall i'm definitely a big fan of how quickly rap os gets you up and running but since i'm running identical control boards and firmware on both printers there's really no reason i can't end up with the same feature sets on both machines so it's kind of just a matter of configuring them i'll provide my configuration files for both printers via a link in the description but i do warn you against using these directly on your printer it's best as a reference if you want to double check how i've done something the other thing to set up before printing is of course your slicer i've said this for a while and i'll continue to stress this point again and again print profiles are the most important part of a quality 3d print it really doesn't matter how good your printer could be if you use a terrible slicer profile the prints will just be bad it's that simple when doing my original review for the v-core 3 there were no official print profiles available but there are now which is great the voron has slicer profiles available too so after the firmware is all kind of sorted and configured it's pretty easy to get both printers running comparing the rat rook to the voron profiles that i have i'd say the voron one is better optimized they are quite similar but with a few little differences the voron profile has some smart manipulation of line width by having much thicker lines like 0.6 on a 0.4 nozzle you can reduce the number of lines needed to complete infill of a certain percentage which saves time the speeds are quite a bit different between the two profiles though on average the rat rate uses higher speeds by about 20 or 30 percent but this didn't always translate to faster prints due to the other differences in the settings like the one i just mentioned overall it does seem that the volume profile has been a little bit better tuned to achieve both good quality by having low perimeter speeds while also achieving faster printing with the clever line width manipulation but you know what you could just run the voron profile on the rat rig and as always you'll achieve better results than me just by taking the time to tune your profile for the filaments that you use and of course the specific hardware that you're using we'll take a look at the print quality later on for now let's look at how each of these printers are to use on a day-to-day basis [Music] noise levels seem to have become a bit of a polarizing issue as some users neglect it completely in favor of maximum performance especially in that speedboat race however i'm on a small flat where my printers are never far away so i prefer to keep the noise levels sensible if possible as i mentioned in the original vcore 3 review premium printers like these tend to use linear rails rather than the low-cost v-slot wheels found on many ender 3 style printers this is inherently more noisy so be sure to keep your expectations tempered when buying either of these machines there are a couple of ways to keep noise to a minimum with linear rails though alignment and lubrication while the vcore 3 frame is under library strong and sturdy it's hard to get square as i mentioned before and once assembled you can't really make any adjustments to it without taking the entire printer to pieces with the voron along with the frame being easier to get square in the first place the gantry which holds the xy rails is much easier to adjust right at the end of the assembly allowing you to get the rails all really nicely aligned for the lowest lowest possible noise for lubrication it's not too difficult on either printer but you will need a syringe and a flat tipped needle to get the lubricant into the end of the carriages placing it directly on the rails like it kind of does work but most of just get wiped off so direct application inside the carriage is definitely the better and it can be done on both printers entirely every carriage without having to do any disassembly so that's pretty good the biggest culprit for noise on many 3d printers is the fans the ones included with the vehicle 3 were low quality noisy and didn't last very long so i replaced those pretty quickly with the 5 volt noctua you can perhaps see and a 12 volt 501.5 sun on these high quality fans have already outlasted the original ones and are also significantly quieter i'd recommend both of these to anyone the voron sourcing guide suggests gds time fans which i didn't go for because i had some generic ones already available and also winston fans which are the poor quality ones that i had on my vehicle 3. the ones i have are surviving at the moment but i wouldn't necessarily expect these to last that long i personally think it's high time that 3d printing had some purpose-made specialist fans i think that would be just fantastic another source for noise although a little bit less common is the belt idlers the vehicle 3 uses a bespoke idler but these have had issues since the start i'm still running the original set at the moment they are worn but i do have their improved v2 design which i'll be installing pretty soon on the voron side i've had no noise or wear razors on the pouch idlers yet the last significant factor for noise is an enclosure the enclosure on my v 2.4 reduces noise levels noise levels by around six decibels which is pretty significant difference it also affects different frequencies in different ways so changes the overall tone of the noise which for me kind of really helps i'll get an enclosure on my vehicle 3 eventually and that will be mainly for the enclosure temperatures but the noise reduction will be a nice side benefit another impact on the day-to-day functionality is of course having sensors to monitor things despite being two of the most expensive hobby slash prosumer 3d printers both of these have some glaring emissions neither has any filament runout sensor fan rpn sense power loss detection or jam detection included none of these features need to be particularly expensive to implement so if you need these you could do it yourself it just seems a little bit strange to me that given how small and expensive these machines are with other features the lack of these things that have been around a while is just a bit peculiar regarding weight and portability neither of these are built to be moved the 2.4 and vehicle 3 weigh 12.9 and 16.6 kilos respectively well the more rigid outer frame of the v core 3 makes it a little bit easier to hold on to both really need two people to move them especially if you're going more than a couple of meters my top tip would be don't bother moving it just control it from a distance using a raspberry pi speaking of as both of these machines utilize clipper which runs on a raspberry pi it's good practice to shut down clipper before removing the power to prevent sd card corruption i've been told off by viewers on multiple occasions for pulling power without safely shutting down first i've continued to do this even though i said i'd stop mainly because it's just a fiddle to have to log into the web interface just so i can turn off the printer what i'd really like is a physical switch on the front of either printer both printers which safely turns off all the high power components and maybe just leaves the raspberry pi running something much more similar to how a desktop computer works for example i've searched the vora mods page and can't find anything quite like this at the moment but i think would be possible so it's so maybe just something i'll look into if it does keep bugging me let's take a look at some stuff about reliability starting with end stops and bed leveling [Music] both the vehicle 3 and 2.4 have quirky bed loving techniques or should i say axis tramming techniques the rat rig bed is mounted to a three-point kinematic coupling and three independent z-axis lead screws a bed probe is used to detect the average plane of the bed and adjust the whole thing accordingly in addition to this the probe is also used to create a mesh of the bed to compensate for any warping or bending of the aluminium cast plate the vault on the other hand has four independent belt driven z-axes that uses an inductive probe on the extruder carriage to detect the bed and make the adjustments the stock firmware however has no implementation methods for creating a bed mesh but the foamer is capable so it's quite easy to add the only annoying part for me with the belted zed is that when changing filament after a long print the idle timeout has often finished and therefore the motors have turned off completely this means that when purging filament by hand the downward force is enough to turn the motors and then the qgl which is the probing sequence then fails on the next print because of that i've increased the idle timeout length to try and deal with this but the motors and heaters all use the same timer and i really don't want the heaters to stay on for like two hours just in case something goes wrong the importance of the v-core 3's kinematic coupling should not be understated when you heat materials they expand so when you heat your bed that also expands if it's rigidly mounted to anything that doesn't heat and expand at the same rate it will cause distortion kinematic couplings are a special type of mounting that allow for this expansion without distortion which will improve the reliability and consistency of your first layers the vaughan however rigidly mounts the bed to the front the manual instructs variable screw tightness to deal with thermal expansion but i'm not convinced that's a great solution with everything calibrated i found i can get reliable prints actually every time as long as i'm using the same material and waiting long periods to ensure thermal stability before printing again it's not great but it does work this brings me on to the homing and probing mechanisms as i've just kind of brushed over them so far the rat rig uses standard xy end stops and then a bl touch for everything on the zed the vaughan uses standard xy end stops a nozzle touch zn stop and an intactive probe for the qgl gantry leveling and mess compensation if you set it up the rat rig system works really well and with clipper you can set the bl touch into a kind of permanently deployed state where you can probe repeatedly without it having to retract and deploy again and again for a reasonably fast bed mesh that works really well the vaughn on the other hand has been more problematic for two reasons because the zn stop is separate from the bed thermal expansion is not accounted for in the zn stop distance if you always print at the same temperatures that's fine you'll get very consistent results but changing to pla requires quite a significant z offset for me this is likely also impacted by the z end stop using nozzle contact if there's any filament left on the nozzle the z-end stop will trigger sooner than it should so for best results just make sure you wait 10 or 15 minutes of preheat to make sure everything's soft and in the right position and expanded and stable and all that kind of stuff and then it works okay using the probe accuracy command built into clipper i was able to get a picture of how reliable the bltouch and intuctive probes are these tests were done firstly at room temperature and then repeated at printing temperatures of 240c nozzle and 100c on the bed just to see how the reactant change with temperature in the cold test the vcore 3 definitely provides better results with less than half the range and half the standard deviation compared to all however when we include the hot results the story is quite different despite expecting the 2.4 results to be the worst due to the temperature sensitive inductive probe this standard deviation is actually slightly lower as is the range conversely the v core 3 has vastly increased range by three times and standard deviation by over four times four on definitely wins this one despite my expectations being the reverse there is a highly recommended voron probe mod that i'll look into soon called the clicky probe this is a mechanical end stop probe that magnetically attaches to the carriage just for probing and then it's kind of deposited onto a carrier if you're having trouble with bed probing this is maybe something worth taking a look at of course one component of a good first layer is the print surface the print surface on the v-core 3 at least for my version is a rough single-sided powder-coated pei from prima creator like a brand or similar to 3d primer i was a little critical of this surface in my original review but i've since started to like it a little bit more as it's been pretty reliable and durable it also hasn't needed significant cleaning yet and it's still holding parts pretty well the surface on my 2.4 is a very different beast though this is the fingerprint rs print service from philiphart whom sponsored the series the addition properties are extremely strong and sensitive to distance get the nozzle too close and your prints will be more stuck than you can ever imagine it's also very sensitive to finger oils and cannot be cleaned with the ipa acetone or other harsh chemicals the surface is very durable though and i've not had to clean it yet other than the initial spa visit when it was new during the testing process the prima created build plate was easier to deal with as i was constantly changing filaments and temperatures and this plate was more accommodating of those differences however when i'm just printing the same material same prints in a row again and again and again i do kind of generally prefer the filler print sustaining the performance of your 3d printer though demands maintenance and how easy it is to do can have an impact on how often a mere human would bother to do it [Music] the first part of doing maintenance is getting the parts you need assuming you need to replace something for the vault this would be fairly straightforward especially if you fully sell sourced as you could basically just go back to the same shop you bought the original component from and buy the same thing again the problem is that over time there's absolutely no guarantee that any seller will continue selling the same or even similar parts it's almost entirely reliant on the popularity of the printer and profitability of the parts as to whether you'll be able to find spares when you need them my personal hope is that the design continues to develop alongside part availability in order to support those that are already bought into owning of aurora fortunately the open source nature and strong community engagement should probably help this longevity for the v core 3 if you bought directly from rat rogue definitely go back to them for spares they have a large selection of parts including the custom metal plates controllers hot ends and fans but i actually can't find anywhere to buy the idlers of course you have the normal issues with businesses closing and no longer providing support but fingers crossed this is not on the horizon and again the open source and strong community involvement will definitely help we'll talk more about that later though assuming you have the parts how easy is it to actually replace things and do maintenance on these printers the voron's detachable hot end area can make replacement of any components there or dealing with a jam top end relatively easy you also have the heart pcb mod which i highly recommend by the way the hot end assembly on the v core 3 ever is designed to be very easy to upgrade to be completely different hot end as well so it's pretty well equipped with this kind of operation too replacing fans on both printers is quite easy definitely easier on the vcore 3 due to the kind of more open extruder design replacing idlers is quite a drop on both printers as they require cutting the belts short after the like initial assembly and only the vcor3 has enough adjustment in the tensioning mechanisms to make reattachment feasible without going absolutely stuck crazy if you do need to replace these expect this to take quite a while and you may need new belts next let's take a look at some of the peak performance characteristics of both of these printers the most common questions i get asked about the vehicle 3 and 2.4 is things like which one can print fastest and which has better acceleration which is the highest maximum speed but honestly i think that's kind of the wrong question as you've likely seen from the speedboat race speed and acceleration are inversely proportional to quality yes you can print a benchy in 10 minutes or less but let's be honest it's not the print that you'd sell to a customer or show to your other half to justify your purchase the highest straight line speed you can achieve on both printers is kind of the same because they both use the same hot end and it's nearly always your ability to push plastic that limits your ability to go faster this is somewhere around 25 cubic millimeters millimeters per second which at 0.2 millimeter layer height and 0.4 millimeter line width is somewhere around 350 millimeters per second but let's be honest nobody just prints straight lines at least i hope not when it comes to acceleration both the 2.4 and v core 3 use the input shaper from clipper during the tuning process an input shaper type and maximum recommended acceleration are suggested these maximum suggested accelerations are what i'm going to be comparing as both machines are core xy we can almost guarantee that the maximum acceleration on x will be higher than on y also since mass is a significant component in maximum acceleration the larger format machines like the vehicle 3 goes up to 500 with heavier gantries will always have lower peak acceleration lastly since clipper only uses one acceleration value for x and y we must always focus on the lowest of the two values so these are my results despite how technical this test method is i'm not sure it's really the best determination for peak acceleration as it's more about input shaping and you can definitely go past what's recommended but it seems reasonable to assume that a more rigid machine would allow for higher suggested acceleration values hence this being my method i think the main contributors to these differences are the nine millimeter wide belts used on the vehicle iii the slightly lighter weight of ever due to a little bit less plastic and the 30 30 extrusion used in the main frame creating a really rigid structure that said the addition of panels to the exterior of a printer can have a massive impact on its rigidity if integrated in a structural way so it may be worth me retesting when i have enclosures for both printers next let's take a look at temperatures heat up times and things like that since they have a similar hot end heat up time and max temperatures are theoretically the same in practice i found this also to be true with equal times from room temperature to 240 celsius to be around 2 minutes and 23 seconds for the same size bet however rat rigs specify 600 watts rather than the 450 watts found on the voron comparing bed heating times the v core 3 got up to 100 celsius in 2 minutes 57 just under 3 minutes while the 450 watt voron took much longer around 8 minutes and 1 second very similar beds but very different heater power make a huge difference both printers are ok to 110 celsius though for starting a print i normally leave the enclosure on my 2.4 for about 15 to 20 minutes to heat up to temperature before i start printing when it's abs for the v core 3 though just being well it's open so i just get on with it it just prints when it's up to temperature with all this talk of high temperatures though it picks my anxiety just a little bit so let's calm things down with a chat about safety starting with firmware i'm testing for mintep max temp and thermal runaway protection these tests are really easy to do and i recommend you do them on every printer you own just in case they're disabled or not implemented correctly it literally takes two minutes as expected since both printers run the same firmware the results were basically identical both printers passed all three tests detecting the problem providing an error message and putting the printer into an error state one observation i did make was that although most fans were set to 100 neither printer enabled the part cooling fan at all when hitting any of these errors for some reason the fan section for the printed part fan has shut down speed at zero by default while all others are set to one this explains the behavior which i saw but something i'd really like to see changed on the clipper firmware to fix this in the printer.cfg file identify the fan section and make sure it has the line shutdown speed 1 this will then ensure that the part found will go to 100 when the firmware enters an error state rattos had this implemented in less than an hour after i mentioned it to mikael so that's already sorted just make sure you update in terms of electrical safety in wiring the voron takes a big big leap forward over the vehicle 3 and every other printer i can think of that i've looked at with pre-made harnesses available as a mod using high quality heliform wiring full implementation of drag chains for all three axis and appropriate wire gauge and connectors used at every single point it could definitely do with some improvements with a wire management in the lower compartment and there should definitely be zip ties at the ends of both or well all of the drag chains but other than that it's still really very good the v core 3 is let down a bit here there are no drag chains at all no provided solution for strain relief and the wire management in the electronics compartment does exist it's better than the voron but still quite lackluster while drag chains are not essential some robust design for strain relief using spring steel straps or 2.85 millimeter nylon filament i would consider a minimum for the z-axis there is some basic strain relief at the bed but the cables are left loose between the carriage and the pass-through so fatigue over time would definitely not be a surprise and well i do accept that the z-axis moves far less than x and y but it's still possible as i've mentioned previously there's very little in terms of instructions when it comes to wiring the vehicle 3. the standard design has no enclosure for the electronic compartment at all so there'd be nothing covering the main circuitry in this area it honestly frustrates me quite a bit that even a few months after this print is released things like details of electrical installation are still not included and strain relief systems have not been fully implemented what's more it seems their design efforts at the moment are fully concentrated on the upcoming v minion and new vcast versions instead of sorting issues on existing designs one thing that both printers do correctly thankfully is specifying the correct type of 240 volt switch a dual pole type which cuts the live and neutral wires when in the off position they both also implement a thermal fuse for the bed which i'm tremendously glad about something on the rat rig that i prefer over the voron is the placement of the electronics compartment like so i personally feel that having it at the back of the printer is much better than the underside with the 2.4 i have to flip the entire printer on its side or even the back whereas the vcor3 i can just rotate it and it's there lastly air treatment the vcor3 that i have has clearly no enclosure so there's no filter or air treatment at all the voron 2.4 design has an air filter with a carbonyl foam material that should fill to the air i'm not convinced that it works that well and i don't have any means to actually test this unfortunately so it's hard to be certain but i'm not sure even the fan is powerful enough to provide the needed pressure so yeah i've had lots of recommendations to try the nevermoor filter though which is a recirculating type so if you're looking to use a filter then you may want to give that one a go overall the vora is definitely the safer printer mainly due to improved documentation and maturity of modification kits as well as implementation of drag chains speaking of mods though what are the options for upgrading these machines and how easy are they to get hold of starting with the voron then there is an organized repository where you can find community designed modifications for each different voron design the 0.1 trident and 2.4 and many shops have these bespoke design parts for those mods for sale so you can integrate them into your billet materials as you first build the printer some examples of mods that are recommended are on screen now the clicky probe is a micro switch probe with magnetic attachment the nevermore filter is a recirculating air filter 270 degree hinges allow the doors to be opened more and the abbn is an afterburner replacement that claims to improve airflow for the cold end and part cooling each of these mods are fairly easy to acquire parts for they're all pretty well documented and have lots of community users that you can ask for help moving on to the rat rake the v core 3 mods are all held in a thread on a discord channel and many are also in a vehicle 3 community on thingiverse the vehicle 3 has not been out as long as the 2.4 so the mods are definitely a little bit less mature and the slightly less organized test up has resulted in some replication as people can't find what they're after so they design their own or they just go without there are definitely some fantastic options available though including the eight complex xy modifications that i talked about earlier allowing for standard size ideally lots of adxl mounts and cable organizers and other stuff like that overall the mod selection is definitely strong for both printers with lots of upgrade options including ways to overcome missing features like filament sensors which i mentioned earlier at the time of writing the voron takes the crown hit due to its organization and maturity but i do look forward to the v core 3 having something similar in the future hopefully fingers crossed in an environment of tinkering diy and modifications though having a community for help support and inspiration makes an enormous difference to not only your success with the product but also your enjoyment of it from my experience the root of the voron and ratri communities has been discord the wrapwork discord is actually unofficial and the facebook group is actually bigger as well but i've had much better results talking in discord than on facebook i had my concerns when getting involved in building a vaughan because i heard that the community can be a little bit unpleasant to deal with at times but unfortunately this has not really been the case for me i spent most of my time in the brexited channel for uk users and found them really very helpful with sources suggestions sharing info answering questions and all kinds of stuff they're just really helpful the rat rate unofficial discord though is another step up in that community feeling they're very helpful welcoming thankful and just generally good to chat with i'd highly recommend joining if you're thinking of building any rat rate printer or other product it would be a miss for me to mention though that there is a new discord specifically for the vector 3d community so if you want to chat about all sorts of 3d printing the workbench for on rat rig and other video topics you can join that by the link below well as i've said both communities are strong and good is this really enough to support the printers when spending this much on a 3d printer both the voron and vcor3 are well over a thousand dollars you will have some expectations for long-term support typically from the company that supplied it to you well that doesn't really work the same way now while both of these printers are open source the method by which the engineering hours turned into cabinet science was different the voron design team is a group of volunteers while rat rake is a commercial business at this point these differences may not seem important but if you consider how long you want your printer to last and what could happen to these two entities it starts to be a little bit of a different conversation on one hand the volunteering aspect of war on design means that they don't necessarily rely on the typical business financial metrics to make their projects worthwhile after all they don't even sell the printers they design on the other hand volunteering time is limited interest can change and life is just a vast array of responsibilities and they can all get in the way of projects we're highly passionate about with rat rake they're incentivized to make a profit grow the business develop their new products and then rinse and repeat but of course a business can still fail i'm not suggesting war and design are about to disband or the rat rings going to fold imminently my point is that they're fundamentally different in the way they function and operate and maybe it's worth investing in whichever you feel most comfortable with ultimately i don't have any answers for you here but i think it'll be interesting to look back on in five years and see where both of these places are at so putting doomsday to the side though what is the support well voron support is the discord channel which means it's purely information based and there isn't any guarantee that you get the right information from the right person it's basically public chat so anyone that sees the message can provide an answer although obviously you know who to get the right answer from as they're kind of listed in the side on the discord of course this can be a good thing as you can potentially get answers to weird questions at any time of day but it also means that you risk being given the wrong information hopefully it goes without saying at this point but there is no warranty no spares if you need new parts you have to go and buy them yourself rat rig on the other hand is a bit more conventional i'm not aware of any organized ticketing system for the support yet but it seems to be mostly handled through emails and the facebook groups if parts break or wear out like the idlers they also seem to be sending out new parts as replacements which is promising as with a lot of things with rat rogue at the moment though they do seem to be a little overwhelmed so response times can be a little slow but i've had people confirm that they had very fast responses so who knows neither system is perfect but they do seem to be doing a reasonable job of meeting the expectations of the customers even though war on owners are sort of not customers in the traditional sense support can come in a variety of different ways though like making cad models available with both the 2.4 and vcore 3 being open source i think it's important to see how open they really are as it's not uncommon for open source to be treated quite poorly with nothing more than some early version step files that never get updated and even have errors in them for the vehicle 3 the typical access route to important files is via github this is where you can find all the sdls for the 3d printed files and dxfs for cutting enclosure panels the bed etc i wouldn't call this really open source though so is there any more well yeah a lot actually it's quite easy to miss but on the main github page there is a hyperlink to cad in onshape which is literally all the 3d models in one i gave a lot of praise for this in the original review and don't get me wrong it's good but still not quite open source in my opinion for true source i need to see the cad sketches and features that make up each 3d model there are plenty of companies that claim to be fully open source that are less open source than rat rig so they're doing a good job but not quite a hundred percent there in my opinion foreon is basically the same github is used for the main distribution of stl files and controlling versions and a fusion 360 model is made available to download but it's just dumb solids there's no actual like proper feature tree with sketches and features this method of doing things where you only get dumb solids is definitely sufficient for like 95 of the things you'll need but i'd like to see the source files really okay you've waited long enough now let's take a look at the print quality starting with bridging and overhangs for bridge testing i've used my directional bridge test in rpla performance is measured based on the thickness of the bridge if the filament touches the print surface it's a fail for that direction both printers are equipped with fans that blow along the x-axis and this seems to result in similar dimensional performance however the v 2.4 dropped a strand on the y plus resulting in a fail the v core 3 wins this one by a bit now my directional overhang test again in rpla overhangs of 55 to 5 degrees are tested where 90 degrees would be a vertical wall performance is measured based on the steepness at which quality starts to degrade the smaller the angle the better the good news is that both printers were able to successfully print 45 degree overhangs in all directions which is about what we typically expect vaughn was definitely more even across the board while the vehicle 3 had slightly larger variants disappointingly when trying to put these tests into practice printing the eastman darth vader bust the voron failed completely with the overhang curling so much and disturbing the hot end that i decided to stop the print the vehicle 3 was definitely doing better but due to a missed place mouse click when waking the computer from sleep i left a massive blob of filament on it and also decided to stop that print overall nothing exceptional here but not too bad either unless you're printing a lot of pla with ambitious overhangs the cooling performance is definitely something that could be improved smooth round surfaces are one of the places where inconsistencies start to show up that you may not have noticed with more intricate parts so i've tested the gear anderson cat in rpla for organic curves and this main bucket part of the drippy bucket in robs 100 for less organic curves looking at the bucket first well they're both basically perfect no wobble no inconsistent layers no weird extrusion blobs no warping either it's just around pretty good looking at the cat both printers have basically no blemishes in the outer surface layers are aligned and extrusion seems consistent i mean this print is basically identical from both machines and it's actually incredible how good these look looking at the supports i wasn't able to remove the support on the gear around as a cat with my hands alone because the print settings i've used extrudes a line all the way around the perimeter of the support material which makes it like extra rigid and more reliable but also a little bit harder to remove the supports themselves though are both printed well no disturbances no gaps no zed waddle wobble or poor extrusion i don't use supports a lot but these both look pretty much perfect to me as long as you have a tool to remove them or just turn off the extra strong promoter setting so i think this is another draw for examining retractions i've got two objects my directional string test in rpla and part of the nevermoor filter the recirculating filter we talked about earlier in our abs 100 starting with my test piece the voron one is near perfect there is some very light stringing on locations between the smaller towers but those towers are really well formed i've broken one of them handling them as they're less than one millimeter across the rat rig one is okay there's no dense stringing just wispy bits but it's present between like basically all of the towers in all directions weirdly the retraction on my vehicle three profile is one millimeter while only 0.65 on the wall so i would have expected less stringing but that doesn't appear to be the case i could speculate on reasons for this but it's definitely different looking at a more real world test the never more filter component and also changing the material to abs the differences are no longer visible looking really close it seems the vertical parts of the mesh are slightly less well-formed on the vcor3 compared to the world but this is a real nitpick though they're both darn good and probably indistinguishable to most people looking at them from a reasonable distance for examining some finer details i've got this print in place clip and a wobbly leg alien thing both printed in rpla starting with the clip this one didn't go well really for the vcore 3. unfortunately everything got a bit stuck together on the vcor3 so when trying to rotate the joints use a clip remove supports etc it snapped at both pivots on both clips so yeah not great from looking closely it looks like the first layer above the support material is just not very good and also the pins seem to have gotten stuck in the hole so a bit unfortunate there the vault on the other hand printed this piece just fine the supports came away easily and with a quick snap the clip was able to be used and with a reasonable amount of force too where is it i've lost it well done maybe on this wobbly legged alien thing this is one that both printers struggled with really um they both did an excellent job with all the like small retractions and first layer with all the two like leg components uh but they really struggled with joining the kind of skirt around the main body to the rest of the body often pushing those little bits away from the printer in that process and just making a general mess although i did know xy calibration specifically on either machine i did want to try my 150 ml dimensional tests just to see what kind of results we get well not hugely scientific this test indicates that both printers are performing similarly in terms of out the box calibration being around 0.3 to 0.4 percent undersized on the outer dimensions the vaughan is closer to the goal so does win i guess but only just both could do with some calibration for all my test objects that you've seen here that i've designed myself they'll be for sale on my website soon with some guides on how to use them it seems like i've printed a lot of pla in the testing and that's true just for the dimensional stability and stuff but i have printed a lot of abs on both of these printers too and they both did that reasonably well although the modified rabs stuck a little bit too well on the voron that really does stick well both printers printed these handles which are kind of for the 2.4 really well you do get a little bit of curl on the vehicle 3 with these kind of slightly larger abs prints but it's not a lot if you do want to do abs a lot more on the vehicle 3 i probably recommend getting an enclosure just it's just going to be much easier for you for pla in general you've seen a lot of pla prints already and both printers do get some incredible results as long as there's no steep overhangs as neither printer was very good in terms of cooling pla can print pretty fast but for best results you need to cool it fast too so if you're printing smaller objects you just won't get the speed benefits that these printers can provide they just don't have the cooling capacity with an enclosure fitted it's worth keeping the doors open to print pla as you want all the cooling you can get with petg the v-core 3's retraction issue really shined in a bad way the deadpool bust which is just stringing all over the place but a bit of drying and tuning would probably deal with that i've heard reports that the early version of the dragon high flow hot end which is what i've got fitted on the vcor3 was a little bit dribbly so this may have impacted my retraction results on the v core 3. that said at least the vehicle 3 finished that print the voron failed again purely because of curling on the overhangs it just can't really do overhangs past 45 degrees i do need to try the abbn or the upcoming stealth burner which is direct from forum versus a mod to see if that improves things let's move on to my final verdict and buying suggestion [Music] so today we've looked at two titans of modern hobby 3d printing which one do you buy and what parts do you get for it on the electronic side i'm really happy with my choices of the 50 watt heater e3d thermistor dragon high flow hot end and big true tech octopus control board maybe even the high voltage octopus control board if you fancy i wouldn't recommend the raspberry pi 4 purely because of the price and it's a little bit overkill the pi zero w2 seems to be doing well with clipper so i'd go for that or the raspberry pi 3b as they're just cheaper options a nickel plated copper nozzle or even the bontec cht nozzle are going to be the best options for high flow depending on your material obviously switch to hardened steel or nozzle lux or something for your abrasive filaments for fans the noctua and sun on the vco3 are excellent so i definitely recommend lows i'll be looking for something high quality like this to put on my 2.4 when i can in terms of modifications the v core 3 definitely benefits from electrical management as well as like the strain relief so i've got modifications for those you can find them on the github for the 2.4 i would highly recommend the pcb mods from heart they've been absolutely fantastic as well as the heliflon linear harness i've used that's also worked very very well i'll be testing more mods in the future and we'll give you some other recommendations when you know when that comes around so in terms of deciding which printer to get there the incredibly strong frame of the vcor3 gives it the advantage on paper with the input shape of results suggesting its ability to deal with higher acceleration the instructions were pretty good but not perfect but the damage to the parts during the build and annoyingly over tight tolerances have really stuck with me not to mention my concerns with safety and deviation of design resources to new projects are both a big deal for me v cross though what a breath of fresh air for clipper and vcor3 a firmware that's been so difficult or just intimidating to get started with the print consistency with changing material all the time was really pretty good too so if you do a lot of various kind of things all over the shop then that'd be pretty good the voront has made a big splash over the last couple of years and rightly so the quad gradually levelling is functional it looks cool and it works pretty well the design aesthetic is fantastic the implementation of drag chains is definitely the best i've seen on any printer the resurgence of abs printing into a heated enclosure again something that ab that voron is pushing really well and it's absolutely doing great the prolific use of mods is good and bad thing in my opinion the initial design is good but the mods allow you to keep adding new features and that i really like the raw was quite annoying to assemble though viewers in my live streams could see that at times i lost some of the enjoyment because it just wasn't really clear what to do so what do i suggest well if you want to buy a kit in a single purchase get a rat rig but if you're happy to self-source and want that kind of challenge and to make your own component decisions then the voron's definitely open to you if you need a build volume over what the vaughan can provide obviously go for the rat rig if you're really worried about managing the mechanical assembly or firmware setup go for the rat rig ratos will really help you if you want to print abs all the time get a boron for pla neither have amazing calling but the beagle 3 is definitely better for petg just flip a coin if you'd rather keep rebuilding a printer than actually printing with it get a war and just continuously mod it it'll be a lot of fun if you can't afford either of these printers but still want to print abs i'd recommend taking a look at the voron v0 it is still quite expensive at around six to eight hundred dollars pounds money units depending on where you are but it's a neat little printer that will get you started with abs ultimately though if you want great print quality a community of interesting people an educational experience and a whole lot of fun along the way get either and to start enjoying 3d printing thanks again to filamento for sponsoring i'll see you in the next one [Music] you

Channel: Vector 3D

Views: 192,890

Keywords: 3D Printer, 3D Printing, voron, v-core 3, 2.4, v2.4, ratrig, rat rig, v core 3, vcore3, tested, 3d printer review, best 3d printer, 3d printer 2022, voron 2.4, corexy 3d printer kit, ratrig 3d printer, rat rig hardware, corexy 3d printer build, kinematic bed, voron design, voron design 2.4, ratrig v-core 3, vcore 3, voron 2.4 vs ratrig vcore 3, best 3d printer 2021, vector 3d, rat rig v-core 3, voron 3d printer, voron 2.4 build, voron vs ratrig, rat rig v-core 3 vs voron 2.4

Id: QnEb8VnWDcA

Length: 59min 23sec (3563 seconds)

Published: Wed Dec 15 2021