Visions and Images: Garry Winogrand, 1981

[Music] hello i'm barbara lee diamond Steen welcome to visions and images American photographers on photography today we'll be talking to Gary Whitta grande Gary Whitta grande is one of the most important photographers at work in America today his sophisticated snapshot aesthetic if you will pictures celebrate marry events and transform them with precise timing and framing in two astute visual commentaries on modern life it's especially nice to welcome you here Gary at the new school you started out of course supporting yourself by commercial work advertising photography and such things a magazine work industrial work you know hired gun boys why'd you decide to give that all up I don't know you know it was I enjoyed it until I did until I stopped in a way and I had a good time I mean I could travel in all kinds of you know get around though I can't really explain why I just didn't want to do it anymore it was just several years ago was 1969 when I got out of it and then you turn to teaching as well as your own well it was strange because the phone rang and teaching job showed up well that was interesting to try and not always in my own work I was always working you know doing well like the animals and a lot of populations was done while it was doing commercial work at the same time you know well you decided to photograph the effect of the media on events and you studied I guess ritual public events that were planned very often for the benefit of those that were recording them of course what did you find about that period and what were you trying to tell us in your photographs I don't think anything happens with the press in other words one way or the other I think it's all done for it you know you're so it's thought really would Martin Luther King and Birmingham you did the bus thing and you know I don't think anything in that cat that followed would have happened if the press didn't pay attention to what's up to that thing you know I'm just I just saw this farce from whyever but photographing one of its resident pictures frankly you know I went to events and it would have been very easy to illustrate that idea about the relationship would oppress to the thing you know but I some of them from what my and I should deal with the thing itself which is the event pretty much function like the media itself you know but you were the media then oh well I was one of them yeah absolutely about an hour maybe a little slider sometimes half so well people in the press were at times useful to me also in those events are there any of them in your opinion that are ever called together just for fun or for the sheer relief of the participants are they always done for the benefit of promoting an idea a cause a person or a product finally these big openings that meet in the museum's and stuff and people gonna have a good time but if the thing has another purpose in a way you know what's the larger purpose well there's always that in case of museums got there with money you know collect you know because people donate and stuff like that and the certain kind of I believe said interest has to be demonstrated you know before people just like they want what's coming to the shelves it seems that there's a commission see what's that culture yeah sure absolutely I think so that's not that's not evil about term street photography and your name have been synonymous for quite some time but the streets of course are not the only place where you've worked over the last 25 years or so working zoos and aquariums metropolitan museum of art openings rodeos in Texas there must be some common thread that runs through all of your work what would you describe that today no we're gonna get into that I guess I think that those kind of distinction of Street for that I think it's so stupid I can't believe street photographer like you know what are they they were they you have their whole list of titles I think if you're gonna do that yeah would you prefer to describe your self-timer I know I'm still a still photographer that's it if you don't like the reference and I can understand why of street photographer how do you respond to that now tiresome phrase snapshot aesthetically I was coming people who use the term like they're referring to photographs where they believe that they're loosely organized whatever I call it whatever terms you like or casually made but now the fact is that varies that snapshot to every they're talking about there's another family picture which is one of the most precisely pictures didn't even know the meaning of the time they they're using it's an extremely precisely made photograph everybody's 15 feet away and they smile and then you and the Sun is over the shoulder it's that's when the picture is taken it's always one of the most carefully made for girls that ever happen they just dumb misunderstand the this idea so what is really important is the photograph is how you organize complex situations or material to make a picture in the end of the picture to write no matter how I do anything you know it make maybe the language would be how the fact of putting four edges around to collect a collection of information of facts transforms them no photograph is not what was photographed is something else does it really not matter what kind of equipment to use oh I know what I like to use myself but when I look like this but when I look at the photograph it doesn't I don't know it's the photograph questions a mine or anybody else's you know how it was I mean if it's interesting I'm the only time I've ever dealt with that kind of thing is what I'm teaching and there's there's reasons then to discuss it you know till you talk about people who are interested in hell but when I look at photographs I couldn't care less how is it what do you look for a little photograph I mean what's going on you know what's what's happening in a sense photographically why is it it's interesting they try to understand why let's talk about one of your projects and I'm thinking about the animals they're like in so much of your work Jack juxtapositions and gestures that usually go and notice for most of us are very significant in these photographs and you find them worthy of recording how did you come to do a project here you were a city boy spending so much time in zoos and so enamored of animals well or is it animals that interest you so much for zoos are always in the cities around the back no no at least that know I was really when I was raising the organize a kid is literally I was like this is a wonder did you live close to the zoo well I was within walking distance of the Bronx Zoo and then when my first virtual know young nice thing to the zoo because I think they're always interesting managers no I don't make pictures you know actually of them mostly with the animals came it was a came back came about a funny way because they made a few shots if you saw the it was contact sheets do mostly the kids and maybe a few shots of just playing you know my play and at some point I realized something was going on in some of those pictures and something like then I just yeah then I went to work at that specifically Hansel you know at some point I realized something it made sense as a book you know that's so that's what happened I've often wondered how a photographer who takes tens of thousands and by now may even be hundreds if the house into photographs how one keeps any track and it worked any archive of the material how do you know what you have that's all I can say I just it's correct very clumsy you know at times it sometimes just impossible to find a negative or whatever look no I just bet I just ready I'm only one man operation and so things get messed up so there really isn't a an accurate I don't have a filing system where it's very much but don't you think that's important to your work well I'm sure it is but I get it okay it's hopeless you know I've given up I mean it's it's always just you go through a certain kind of drudgery every time you that I when I've got certain things grouped by now but it's there's a drudgery and finally and there's always stuff missing you sold your very first works to the Museum of Modern Art how is it that Edward Steichen came to know your work that's up what happened he was I had an agent when he was doing a family a man and one day I come to the office and I think Wayne Miller had been hit with who assisted him with a family a man was up there pulled out a bunch of pictures see that so I had a message take these pictures cost I can make an appointment and take these pictures up to him as I met him when did they buy any yeah that what song in terms of that don't you a buy this is about 1960 but you do remember how much they paid for them not ten bucks each I mean it was nobody's sold prints then I didn't I didn't mean anything you know in terms of living it was a joke how do you explain this the current rise of interest in photography oh I'm sure someone that has to do with taxes that shelter things there's all kinds of reasons people those people like photography because people have them troubled worrying about what's gonna happen the dollar they want to get anything that seems hard you know I mean I don't know and they just I think but I think it's not the taxes that young people who reject people who are so interested in photography don't buy pictures and they I really think I I don't really have any faith in anybody enjoying photographs particularly really you know in a large sense a large enough sense to matter I think it's all about kind of the woods with finances on one side and then there's another kind of there are people who are socially ambitious and I was taking your photograph before and my well-intended whimsical way i tilted the camera in an attempt to make my own winter grand from what I understand that's not the way one does it what is the meaning of the horizontal tilted frame that you often use and is it tilted no you use one agile you use a vertical edge as the as the point of reference instead of legit although or there's a photograph that's not exerting in there I have a picture of a beggar and there's a there's an arm coming in to the frame from the side and the arm is parallel that horizontal edge that holds that makes it work let's get some games you know but uh keeps it interesting to do to play there is another photograph that has an arm coming in from that edge and an almost Sistine Chapel fashion that a arm and then that hand is feeding the trunk of an elephant I'll be the cover of that book of the animals this yes it is the cover for yeah yeah that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about now you know I carry an arm around I wouldn't be caught dead then several years ago a student did ask you a question that has been widely repeated and the question went something like what is it in a picture that makes it interesting instead of dead and you replied with a telling statement about what photography is all about and you said you didn't know what something would look like in a photograph until it has been photographed there are things I've learned that because I'm interested in those things but in the end you know what I'm saying there I mean I said something earlier tonight I said the photograph isn't what was fun about that something else don't know about transformation I mean well what is it about a photograph that makes it alive or dead there's got to do with the contention between content and form and variably is what's it which is what's responsible for its energies its tensions it's it's being interesting or not only know they're not photographs that function just to give you information I mean I never saw this I never saw a pyramid I've seen photographs I know what a pyramid or a sphinx looks like you know there's pictures that do that it's a different kind of interest that satisfies but most photographs are of life you know whether it's a what goes on in the world and that's boring generally why his wife is banal you know now listen let's say an artist deals with banality I don't care what the discipline is how do you find the mystery in the banal well that's what's interesting I mean there is a transformation you say like just putting four edges around but you got a chance to there is it changes it has a Museum of Modern Art been very influential in your own career in what way well the very fact that you have been exhibited there and celebrated by that leading curator I don't know I mean it doesn't have anything what I do he probably has made some difference in my sales I wouldn't be surprised you know that per gesture again yeah there's other people how much time do you spend in your darkroom do you develop your own okay I got my own when I I work in sports I mean I pile it up you know and how far behind are you you can't it in years then until there's two ways on behind I mean I mean honey development film and then in terms of the printing way but you know it's not easily measurable I'm a joke yeah yeah I mean I just want and it's it's I've never I've never felt overwhelmed I mean I don't get started are there any of your photographs that you would describe as being key in the development and evolution of your work it's of course it's course like photographs it's it was done at the Fort Worth Livestock Show on Rodeo and the first time I shot it was I was commissioned by the Fort Worth Art Museum for a show it wasn't short of you know you issue one year in the show was next year when the rodeo was in town that was a big group show I was you know I was the photographer they had a TV got you know video tape guy and subscribe - red brooms Rauschenberg Terry Allen there's a whole bunch of guys you know and I think I hung so I forget 60 or so pictures in the show and that at the opening somebody would ask me if I was gonna make a book out of it you see and that I knew I wouldn't I mean if I was gonna make a book I want to shoot more you know you do a book you wanted to be a crackerjack of a book and I saw what anyway he gave me the idea so two years later I know the next year I went and did some more shooting and in the following year I did some more shooting and that was it so you know I'd probably shot a total of 14 days something that maybe give it take the image of the Cowboys hero is somewhat deflated was that your intent no I don't know I'm taking pictures well what did you say my intention is to make interesting photographs that's it in the end but I got to do I don't make it up it's not never sighs the world I've ever made that's what that's what was there to deal with well there is a question of selection what one photographs one doesn't if only by reflex well I think you take a look at the book it's basically as I'd say largely it's a gallery of portraits there was another record that you made of one of your interests at least at the time and I'm referring to that book on women what are the circumstances of that collection cuz I made I mean I salute I salute I'm sure it's funny I I always compulsively photographs of women and I still though I didn't I could probably have probably made very well there was some of women a beautiful thing that was interesting about doing that was the difficulty for me of dealing with the pictures I you know where let's say the woman is attractive oh is it a good is it an interesting picture or the woman I've never got and I had a lot of headaches with that you know which was interesting I don't I don't think I always got it straight no I don't know it's I think it's an interesting book I don't think this is good as the other books I've done well throughout your work there did say that there is a her voice and indeed an active one do you agree with that analysis do you understand that I mean only in the sense only in the sense that I generally deal with something happening and there so let's say what's out there is a narrative you say and I think the picture is often enough play with that idea I think we're enough the picture plays with one of the with the question of what actually is happening I was like that by the way puns function you know you have described of course contemporary America and so much of the work that you've done do you find any recurring themes or any iconography that either engages your attention or our attention should be called to fix it I don't know I don't know what made you move to Los Angeles what worries them so that it may not even be a permanent location oh no I don't think so I'll come back to New York when you feel that you have at least for the time photographed as extensively as you'd like to what are you taking pick what are you taking pictures I said I'm all over the place really literally yeah and I think I'll start focusing in more on the entertainment business but I have been doing something that already there's all kinds of monkey business but I'm all over the place literally when you say the entertainment business do you mean movies things that relate to movies yeah movie it was essentially just interested me a long time I was in Texas for five years the same thing I wanted a photograph there and they only can do what has lived it I mean and likewise so I'm living in Los Angeles for a couple of years I've been a gypsy for quite a while it'll come to an end where are you headed next well I'm gonna come back to New York I'm a New Yorker no it might matter fact the more I'm in places like tank-like Texas and California the more I know I'm gonna York I have no confusions we've talked about the influence of people like Walker Evans and Cartier song those are Robert Frisch and Robert Frank my attitude to a lot of things is there's different than evidence I think can you be specific and how would you contrast your work to theirs I have a different say I have a different kind of respect for the things in the world than he does that's I'd say it that way I have a different kind of seriousness about but which might be misunderstood I think I'm being making being funny or whatever it's like the things he deals with the things you look at you see that he photographs to describe a certain kind of exquisite taste and I say the things I've made this describe a lack of that you only he was he was like a very good shopper I'm saying funny I'm funny and how would you contrast your unless I'm less interested and I did I think the problem is there it's almost like I think he would really in that sense he I was think about him and I J cuz the other things that were photographs were often beautiful and that's a hell of a problem the photograph something that's beautiful to start with see that the photograph should be more interesting warm or more beautiful than what was photographed you know and I deal with much more mundane I think the objects at least I don't think I feel it at all I mean I don't keep away from the other thing but I'd say I don't avoid you know garbage good advice would you give in general to a young photographer what should they be doing well there should be the problem is the primary problem is to learn to be wrong but your own toughest critic you have to pay attention to intelligent work and work at the same time music I mean you got to bounce what you do Worf better work that's it's a matter of working do you photographs every day just about yeah yeah but you don't develop every day hello no way John Szarkowski called you the central photographer of your generation it's very high praise but also an enormous burden no gonna tell you know what is it gonna do with working I'm I hope so when I'm photographing I mean I'll have I don't have that kind of nonsense running around in my head then photographing it doesn't get no that isn't it's irrelevant in the end you know no doesn't mean a thing it's not gonna make me do better work or worse work as I can see it no you ever expect your life to unfold the way it has but is ridiculous I had no idea you know did you have in mind mm-hmm survive that's all like that's what I have in mind right now I mean that's luring to this yes that's a unexpected I mean yeah I'm a survivor and what are you going to do next you have any exhibitions or books or nothing just shooting you know this is a there's a lot of work organizing something whether it was a show you have enormous curiosity that propels you from one project to the other yes all over caliber think of it as projects it's all I'm almost photographing I don't really think about its project or is there anything that was ever particularly difficult for you no I was reloading when things are happening you know can you get it done fast enough you obviously have since you are the fastest camera face it doesn't it's irrelevant they're not important to your work the fact that you can organize complex material and snack compose and snap it so quickly yeah but it's not difficult that's not there's nothing difficult about it but it would be difficult it was if I was carrying something heavy or something I carry like this and it's there's nothing difficult take it that way no you know you know if you know what I mean it's just it's not difficult when operating a shovel and getting tired you know no it's not I can't talk about that way you said before you sometimes think of yourself as a mechanic do you also think of yourself as an artist I probably am I don't think about it either but yeah I mean if I have to think yeah I guess so but uh yeah this and how would you like us to think of you and your work I have no ideas no ideas at all when the subject yeah yes it's all about let me work that's all yeah that's what he gets down to thank you Gary Winnie grin for being part of today's program i'm barbara lee diamond Steen four visions and images American photographers on photography [Music]

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Views: 83,719

Keywords: interview, visual, arts, photography, photographer

Id: wem927v_kpo

Length: 30min 16sec (1816 seconds)

Published: Mon Dec 08 2008