Garry Winogrand MIT Q&A with Winogrand Photographs

this is a winter 2008 podcast from the University of California Riverside California Museum of Photography UCR CMP podcast series is produced by UCR CMP and is sponsored by the Gluck Fellows Program the Riverside Arts Council and inland arts comm this podcast is part of a series of podcasts derived from audio recordings found in UCR CMPs collections recordings will include conversations between prominent photographers as well as interviews conducted by former curators of the museum since 1973 UC RCMP has distinguished itself as one of the United States premiere museums of photography and related optical technologies today the museum's permanent collections encompass nearly 750,000 photographs stereo graphs books periodicals cameras and viewing devices UC RCMP holds the world's largest collection of stereo graphi the Keystone mask collection of over 250,000 glass plate negatives and 100,000 stereo graphic prints and related memorabilia this podcast features an audio recording of photographer Gary wina grant speaking at MIT in 1974 this artists talk consisted of a slideshow presentation followed by a question-and-answer discussion session the audio recording is introduced by Jonathan green this is a recording of Gary wina gran speaking at MIT in 1974 gary is introduced by Todd Papa George we're all here and on behalf of the University of Massachusetts I'd like to reminder that those of you who don't know that tomorrow night Walker Evans is speaking in Boston at the Arlington Street branch at that school I think that means incident upon but wine in there right now I'm electric part of the night and Gary are is the beauty part and I'm going to read something that I've written which as I reread it now seems of a little too serious in terms of the people who are here but it's the only thing I've written photography has always suffered from a facile and generally uninformed criticism a critical opinion and those of you seen a recent issue of Newsweek magazine would have to agree the wonder is that in spite of this a few photographers in each generation have work to discover and employ the fact and the beauty of photography itself which is to say a photography without captions without metaphysics a photography without apology this process of discovery that I think you characterizes an active past in tracking intelligence or of intelligence tracking past the point is that both of these qualities share and what is produced and that they happen some photographers with prior entities long enough to find and practice the discipline photography demand I think the governor grant is one of these photographers and then an open eye considering the force and accuracy of his photographs and the description they contain of our present moment but have to know that even by Shakespeare's antique books printed axiom they give the very age and body of the time form impression this is to suggest that I don't not only do these photographs attempt to describe the world in a way that a classic tradition but partly it described it but also that they are serious and accomplished if they appear to be casual it is because they were mentor the mastery resides in just such an appearance the width humor and strangeness that they hold her in some on analyzable way the expression of a man and Gary winning Graham but that his pictures are clear enough and precise enough to surprise or possibly instruct us is the measure of how well a photographer named Gary monogram as practices work and with that I missed you Gary Whitta Graham I don't have a lecture so well I'll let you know any time anybody I'm gonna be here and anybody time anybody has anything on their minds there's the question or whatever uh and we'll see what happens afterwards though why I draw a picture take a picture um generally I mean you could answer the question you generally I probably take everything you just to see what's only was like very good why are you in a particular things I'm the vaguest idea what that's like that you gotta lay down on a couch cam around religiously am i sitting now I generally had a cattle with you so I don't have a living up to you what happens when solar happy be happier okay oh I'm not invisible oh look I do a deal and I'd say that just never happens that anybody object just about nothing more than a few users will go like you began to talk about those games some photographers play on the fact that they are quite visible and I said that there's a camera between the photographer and photograph or subject object I don't know if I want to look at that but the fact that the photographer does have a common sense and is photographing and how the subject reacts to that is an interesting subject and donor and that's something that really shows up there what's the question what what you are what are your thoughts on those games this game you're welcome to get you talking - always looking at me I got many ordinary - yeah depend on which under the present specific instances what's happening how it looks you know these are very alike look at ya it just depends on each each thing is no specific problem oh excuse me in swing a the rabbit out of here to Cambridge a couple years ago there was a was a wondrous moratorium days and there was a thing darling the Commons of Boston during day knows all kinds of action up here I got gas I'm sure I'm going on but I was waiting to count over flashing some kid Greg either you can round up calling the flashes ever the wires graduate I just said like or I'll kill you you probably figured I wasn't kidding when you gonna publish all this before you can remember blintz last time I hear you save you a would be on a book is that why you haven't got any thinking last you said to be sighs oh I'm painting I really not a book is it all just here to do a book that my people are working on I'm out of it Cheryl coffee what who's gonna public gallery how do you feel doesn't well you know with you some of them are more interesting the dogs are the ones I'm interested in am interested in the moment you know it's a funny process I mean when I've got constant gun contacts I enlarged in terms of what I'm interested in seeing bigger and then I find out when I have what they're worth trends I make mostly work prints I wear I mean I do it I've done me I don't make finished prints for me most of these slides amazing work friends but well I've got read friends then I can find out what I'm interested in as we're talking about all right you do like the ones I'm interested in I'm interested in that's all I can say you know we're talking about they're talking about that business of I I said something about games you know when you're shooting in terms of people seeing you whatever hello their attention look there's all kinds of games you can play I took what I'm shooting I try to take advantage feeling a generally innocent about out of camera operates I can a Lima camera people if I give my lip I can give me my attention over there I don't think I'm taking that picture it's fascinating there's a lot of things you do you know if you do it about you work out methods I'm sure anybody would this is something included that you'll take more than one exploit I squirt a thing as much as I can you know there's nothing like this not only works you don't find out who you learn from you know you do learn from somebody's work somebody has to be about Robert Frank I think I learned a great deal from his work it's not a question of trying to make Robert Frank's pictures but it's it's sort of like can completely key to dealing with your own headaches what you'll learn from self someone you were given off by are just two minutes versus a Walker Evans up and then they're out of time I mean it very immediately what talk about thinking remember frames sometimes a given thing do you find yourself experimenting things but you know you make things a lot more the batteries decide there's reasons why that's do things like that butter yeah when you have a situation that's in flux you don't think things are happening here on the basic the real problem is to try it in a sense they try to shower as well as you can you can only know so much of what you're getting why are you shielding I'm told about me yeah what you use the word interesting about describing how you feel about your pictures that's a little big I'd like to I mean I know what the next thing I would say what I mean by that is what I if there's something I'm a hole in the floor let's say if I can learn a paragraph something about the tire me that's what makes it interesting don't ask me what that is besides where it's different from lightning it's not a question of why we mean those things different but really it's not a question and then it is difficulty being intercession occurring the word be a penalty how do you twist a little particle what do you mean when I make a finished player as long as it takes I mean it could be to me piece of paper you know it doesn't take long you should sell he anybody wants mine I don't sell a lot of things not as long as possible well no I just Intel I don't know about other photographer I know Brisson dodging anything it doesn't make any difference as far as myself goes all I want is an open print any competent printer in print for me there's not as many game of interpretation is look the only decision is to make it try to keep it as open as possible yeah if I could afford it I enjoy printing but I I'm always behind I shoot a lot and if I could afford it I'd have somebody Binnington me it's only you know I think it's only collectives and they could deal out of the photographer getting his hands into tray or whatever they want to sign 20-game to has very little a lot of things yeah if you might be starting with films of the Balmer combination no I mean I you know I can send me certain eye strain with a replenish her and I use the ayahs that are triaxis excellent though I have learned by dr. 276 somewhat I don't fool around much below that yeah maybe 99% good I mean there's a lot of prizes in the bring the blessing you know working off a sitting there a surprise functions in a lot of ways you can from about taking pictures of this room at any given time I try to make an exposure where's my half of my attention is normal over really you know part of my attention is there I don't know what you'll do when I'll find out when I see the print know when I can make the I think I can make the decision let's say where the edges are but its own you know at any point of shooting I can know what's going on here anyway those women but I find out you know if the way you move my photograph it's all saying I thought it went where I am that's what it amounts to aren't you here I go was anonymous and easy favorite what I am this body look I I'm a New Yorker when I'm not in the New York Times I'm always in another city you know I just saw some pictures of where there was a picture with you know what is it is some seagulls in some fish tails one if I was a mother point not an actor what do you do at the banks again well what you sure yeah you know everybody's alright I dropped it you've got to deal with a specific situation you know your sort some slightly I said it was the mega Polynesian avoid centennial for I only saw our price like I can count 20 sliders and varied but got the babe then it seemed I deal with a specific situation that's the only way I could answer yeah if you're a few of the photographs if you make the next biggest about perfect if you can do a dishonest and entered the calendar in one I don't know I guess I are all the closes well if you understand it's better this way you know can't come a derelict the photograph is its own reality it has moderation once you're on really what's the fun living says it has no relation to almost photographic I wanted this this is suddenly for at least 20 years up like that least anymore until next time or if you can't Hey once again you know that was that Saturday you know the same it's the same really the same question sheer Saturday I'm far away at the SMU Texas game I got 15 wells of film I don't do that every day again you gotta talk about a specific day rahama the Profi apples came about another 15 there is some funny business it's a composite and I wound up but I'm wake up you know my Peter and attract a woman I'll try to have a picture on it it's the same way really it's funny it's got a little compulsion my antique like your clarifier compulsion now you just want windup with [ __ ] I'm gonna at least me why not what a bit more huh that's all there is what is why it's why Jake pages know if you on it you don't have to tell privacy's hey would you rather just show the pictures and then after what film you use multiple camera then go oh I'm so you're getting cheap what I assume you can pay well I know when you're asking these questions I get the impression that you they are answering as if they didn't the questions weren't too important to you I think I'm doing everything but I'm trying to my best understand the question and answer the question as clearly as possible okay it's no problem to me are you Bob to matter of interest to get really ok beyond the I mean I could very well read something right something they didn't recommend that would be it yeah I may help compensate for that and for that said that generally prints self referral information to transfer now as because of the fact level for example the reality was the employer is very fortunate enough sit among other things we know it's well the best very important see and I have a sense looking at your work that's important mizzle contradiction must photograph as normal relationships Weston photograph what does the information have solar feel hover in the air has to be rational just simply that it doesn't necessarily you know it doesn't necessarily have to mimic the contract the light contrast etcetera in what was photographed but it does have to be rational in itself it has to be rational and complete here you know anything on the phone features done what what it has your finger or there isn't yeah there is a seeming paradox functioning there is a seeming paradox functioning because while it is the illusion of a literal description of wireless phones with you know you can't know anymore it's not there is the illusion of a literal description of our let's say let's complete it about anyway let me let me finish them it's the illusion of a literal description of how the camera saw that's what you get while it is that from it you can now very little it it has no narrative ability you don't know what happened look from the photograph you know how exactly you don't know what happened you know has something tell a piece of targets based look to a camera but it has to be rationally it has to compel you to suspend your disbelief because it's a lie it's reduced it's black and white it's two-dimensional so why is there such a thing this proof it's a lie your photograph fascinated with slides and the earth offer examples taught in the family man are for that I think of a girl being held up at each which a little careless entities Europe water or preachy session that that Cecil's gotten away from instant receiving more fascinated with you rely reality or whatever by itself without any preconceptions I'm just curious F at what point you're automatically very moment at night like my point I don't know if you're the picture your toilet I remember what you're saying about it makes that is that is so really that's not the point though I don't know at what point I think I can't understand anything about what actually was going on why thought about why photographs were interesting I don't really know when I started giving it any thought you don't really have to you know if you don't have to understand anything about in these times to make photographs but I don't know when you know I try to try to be articulate about what why photographs are interesting why anything happens it's a venting interest in the room yeah you can take photographs do you find yourself staying in one place around you both what's up absolutely it's a fact it happens let's say if I have to make a point with somebody to meet I almost always make appointments to meet outdoors with a contingency of it's raining merely because I want to be barbed if anybody is late and a member so I'm hanging around a place I can photograph I mean I've once a million different ways do not mind exhausting I say we people rarely really I mean I really don't have an imagination you know comes out of that I really don't so I can't work that way as a rule look at this wall okay and and in terms of what he's what he's discussing maybe I think that this is a baffle that if somebody was sitting there I'll wait with somebody sitting there that's going to be interesting I don't know I don't I don't think I don't function that way I think that's what you're talking about I don't function really well I'll see something interesting he act method and you think a target you way around and I would certainly I want to try shot if I see fella if there was a chance at a time and when I'm sure what do you think Eva he's doing some very good work he's a very good photographer and he seems to be getting better in that I would here's a car to do with the black and white they're doing impact say what are to be shot has come yeah I don't do much room for the health yeah nice one very precious from our body much ambition that's what if that's what that is I think that's the way to question certain - you know - you are what do you do with it you putting on we're different what's your question I very nice but I'm only trying to learn about photography that's all that's all well if you take you from people like Matt fine I just let me do it people like them and I wasn't doing what I can learn he did you hear what I said I use a key question I have nothing to say you know it was pictures certainly the my make any sense you will I'm trying to learn about photography to think itself has an intimate you are changed it than all those people here admiring later and presumably we like your work why should that be strange Partners you don't do it for audience doing very wrong now is my product it is a byproduct it is so maybe you're doing it to be your own well you know you take pictures who you know what's going to happen to them some people take pictures for an audience and what photographs that people will live live how do you know that people said it okay that sounds like a big burden really to to do it from I got a hunch you better enjoy just go with it yeah I agree I think you've got a lot of headaches of you mark yeah do your suits of spit work you which is rather different in style and wrong and what work assuming that they do on occasion Tyrus how you criticize oh there's only you know there's only photography it doesn't matter what camera was done with well I don't even know heckles did you know how many student was trying to dissolve sentimental versus his photographs he's trying to express what trying to express the emotion is helping or convey a film with my computer you might disagree with our real feelings well she walked God this is my depression too thought about me think that there is a emotional concept or music Jesus no it's there but it's not that you're trying to impose on your tail on the other targets I'm sure and do try to do that we're going to try and impose a feeling of meaning want me to react in certain way you precise at that time approach to photography period its elevation you're discussing you know you're discussing advertising yet discussed thing maybe the use of photographic means one might I mean I could safely say don't let's say every photograph is a picture every picture isn't necessarily a photograph whether it's done with a camera or not ask a question right mean I think that says on with her life but what is a photograph when is that question let me save another way well let's say that still photography is the clumsiest way to exercise imagination to illustrate literary ideas anybody with a pencil beats you period can you in army or just want to take a very simple illustration of employed if you wanted a melted watch what do you how do you get it thought we can have one anybody was he doesn't you say it is the clumsiest way to exercise imagination stance amount to driving a nail in with a saw and when you can use a hammer yeah you still turned off but things like you know most Americans who like to move middle western or sometimes automatic life work is not discuss abolish this photograph billion you know what's just not discussable as photographs with a friend making you know I mean oh excuse me I can't help you stuff about it they're very dog don't find out don't find interesting photograph in his book any of his books they're boring on any terms on their own terms doesn't think you should miss the point there's a title that's what I mean on their own terms they're not plunge the tiger is much more interesting than doing that like yeah a photograph is an illusion of a literal descriptions the power hammer saw on a piece of time in space that's what a photograph is it's nothing else right when you say it means that is not what you say that the means to come by what you describe doesn't matter it's always the same just down the process is you know perception same and then you operate the machine to make a record that's what that's the way you take a picture I don't care what can we use of course you can put it on a tripod we both leave the table then the camera does it all Oh what if somebody came up with what you thought is the good photograph with you without matter to you that he stuff is camera our final s questions look program I don't really get how anything you know how you know the guy could have it in a pocket with a hole I don't know what you're saying though is very good photograph this is good photograph you see it I didn't say we were on a good program I just said what a frog laughs it's okay children imagination is a common as much pizza and a film is much more as I have much more possibilities of being creative let's use that word you know the image of funny business that whole business is funny even with a movie camera you know the problem you know you could set a stage you get things going you still got a problem with photographing you because once the thing is going it exists just like anything else the Browning are it's two different things really one city dress you got a photograph was where's imagination come in even then it's addressing the question I don't know what imagination is the N and how can you say you don't have it well as I understand I'd say if it's connotations when it's used actually no for me actually are something that could be parallel to imagination in it I will not if every [ __ ] I'll just look this on try to understand something about the process really is own point of mental ringing room view is conceivably a useful term yes is there such a good photograph as a farmer or yeah this your almost well what is always surest all photographs are people that makes one last night you can hear softer you have to stop and discuss the quality of the problem that's conceived off of the medium what the point the quality of the cover the degree of contention in the photograph doesn't you know there's only you're asleep without contention in the end there's got to be convinced you gotta come from someplace I mean the detective are you making other the an arbiter instance like the cover of her book but the point of contention in the kind of form is on the verge of overwhelming the content it does it a problem a problem is stated is severe one it what separates that photograph let's say from other photographs that's the point of contention there because it is only you know what selling boredom without contention it's gotta be there make any sense yeah what it's only making spares in the shadow area there should be information it shouldn't be dead a hole in the picture black in the highlights they should be information simply chalk white you know I know listen the hotels are by the open frame why I said you know people consider themselves targeted to regret have black nothing anyway everybody's responsible for their own foolishness and there are misunderstandings know if you don't allow that I have nothing to like that it's not up to me to allow or disallow I don't have the shot when you are anything now same controller you have control again on the base of the way I understand is it's all let me just take a look in this room okay who's wearing anything black okay take a look at somebody's doing something like this white all right what what color is a black was it great is there a black invention yeah no sorry something like that when there's no light it's black 10 pictures then the Third Point which stuffing light becomes interesting because of its relationship to block around remember that means before the surface lasers no you have to have something specific to discuss a the giveaway suppose you've got an object in a dark room black me and that object is live there have any interest to you in surrounding would you be absolute Charlie yeah there is a sad eligibility so again in the end you have to program a specific picture because something because it does work and to me don't problem no problem there are talk about food being rational etc for every rational it has the compare yield is a study this belief does it but doesn't the prefer drift nor is it what you see is compelling enough this is we will suspend you disbelief about that black okay unless I have broken rule works who knows was impossible I mean you've seen plenty of ditches where there is black it works you know you remove it if it will return certainly the problem is yeah it happens what you don't see he has that compel a suspension of disbelief yeah cities don't work for you anymore this is one story where the materials are very limited leave it back and says my pocketbook considering what their interiors cost on top and I'm getting very limited yeah your work of Barcelona or he's parking third month no yes some some number of years back you are first of happily taking pictures and you know just for yourself and as limit of your cares now you're pretty well you know we're well-known photographer can you comment on like did that happen more or less despite your efforts or did you actively do a lot of hustling and you talk about last important but I haven't very muchly other words how do you can talk about how how your your photographs got no other than its balance you know I mean you don't keep in the closet right you do something what's your problem I'm gonna figure out what you know we're officially a prop right everybody would like to be would like to have get known you know I don't really I don't know how to do it but you have something and obviously it has those pictures first but once you got the pictures what you do it is you know I really don't want to write a biography here you know because that's what you're really asking I mean that it's not simply stated it's a [ __ ] the whole thing it's funny in the end really is yeah because politics exist in the end there are political people I mean like what I'm talking about me I could talk about somebody who's no I won't mention who was starting someplace where masters and I mean if this is the correct you know roughly that what I mean by politics and he throws a lot of nonsense and he just told told them give it to me and I'm because I'm not going to hang around and they just figured he that he might be doing something they wanted him to have a message from theirs that's political things work that wait what foolishness you know it's to gain at some point yes hello answer get back armed I just I mean I don't know but today I can see a lot of people are running around from do our streets are you single and reflex camera do you think what this is you know our trust to do a traditional services this is a party of three actors well you know you know what the follow you know you know an isometric as soon as I work where I teach gym generate calories she the one for headaches with our damage and she says he's got a composite now and then compulsions the far about particular things is that bad I think you can't thank God for compulsions in the end the moon you're from our young little while salute back there you're a while then for the Kim thing so much work you know serious work yes I died when I was in Canada fall into the black studio is anybody interesting not photographing or maybe a beer every gun in there unless I ask me average sorry [ __ ] you yeah that's happened I don't then I'm not looking to do it you know I use a funny answer in a way because it was interesting enough I may very well go ahead anyway and that has happened but generally the whole thing is all about time I hear anything before you you can't photograph where your boss control those employees I don't have a cabin if I splice what when something happens it just takes you completely away from where you want to be at the time and dealing with it with the image that you're trying to form here are on being well ever get mostly overtaken by him stuffing Mara Ainge point time that you want a photograph thing can't stay a minute are the only experience I've had that you know could relate to when your daughter man years a long time ago ID allow a lot of things are price rights actually and I stopped doing it because I you know I thought when I started listening when I should have been children that's all I mean that's the only if that's what you're talking about and I was dumb something not right I mean this was your response you know well maybe it wasn't but you just took a picture of it right up and

Channel: Book Flip

Views: 57,156

Rating: 4.9214144 out of 5

Keywords: Winogrand, Garry Winogrand, MOMA, Leica, Photographs, Photography, Social Landscape, Social Landscape Photography, 1974

Id: vUuwdPkLsT0

Length: 42min 31sec (2551 seconds)

Published: Wed Jan 29 2014