Venture Capitalist Vani Kola On What She Looks For In StartUps, Her Journey and The Indian Market

building a business is nothing to do make making money or having that private jet or whatever they're all byproducts your fulfillment is coming from the pride of the business you built right it may be nothing more than I went to i k these people are from I Cano they stayed in the same dorm and uh somebody I know knows them maybe that's the only reason you are Angel Investing those networks don't happen for women that was a first time entrepreneur in Once Upon a Time and I remember being know very just uh scared of V but today you know when someone you know Green you know was doing it for first time this first six into that comes and and pitches to you the wrong thing in the pitches you know they talk to me about the next five or seven year plan which you know they can't know really India Alpha you know the economy growing nearly 10x over next 25 years anyone who picks a problem and just stays with it for a long period of time is bound to do well [Music] [Music] wani welcome yeah really looking forward to this conversation I think I've had the privilege of working with you for last 16 years but that Dynamic was always you as a board member asking me questions so finally I get the opportunity to send the record St and ask you questions so you always had the answers but I don't know if I have the answers okay out today I'm pretty sure you do I think uh in fact you know in preparation I mean I know your background but I still you know going through the work you've done and over four decades I think you know three very different you know hats you know as a professional uh then doing your own startups in Silicon Valley and I remember in my beer days reading about your exploit in some ways know you were among some of the early Indian entrepreneurs who started coming late 1990s early 2000 and you know so it's big inspiration great to eventually get an opport to work with you and then last almost two decades you know coming back to India and uh you know doing Kari I want to start there you know after 20 plus years in US it couldn't have been easy to move back to India like what was a was that always a plan that you come back someday it was more of something you know opportunistic at that time like what made you come to India when the ecosystem was very very early in fact you were among the very few people who can help build an ecosystem in India so you know my destiny life has never been by plan right and sometimes we and this is for young people and there are a lot of them that we work with as Founders but also in our office in the uh investment roles uh and overall in general I see a lot of anxiety among young people about the future right and I have the Vantage I turned 60 this year so I have the Vantage of looking back and I think the best things that have happened to me have happened unplanned m and in some ways letting life unfold I think there's a beauty to it um and because you don't know everything you don't have all the data to plan it's no different than your company or anything else and life is even more complicated if you can't plan quarterly numbers exactly how to plan life exactly right so I had no plan of coming back I've always loved my indianness uh and my childhood like I think most middle class childhoods in India was rich in love relationships uh joy and all those things and we never really thought we lacked anything and so the context of your mind matters a lot right and I always felt rich not financially my family was not but I never felt a lack right so that matters um so I think coming back to India was happen stance uh was uh just a spontaneous decision MH it could not have been planned because it was a intersection of so many things unplanned for the first time in my entire working career I was free uh with my time I had sold my my company had exited my company rather and then uh I had the financial stability and uh uh didn't know what what I wanted to do next right I was in my uh I was I had just turned 40 and uh it was a time for a lot of reflection I also don't like to be in a comfort zone I think you stagnate and you get complient and then you start getting unhappy with yourself and when you are unhappy with yourself of course you make everybody else also unhappy because you look at the world uh with a little bit of uh tainted glasses and jaded you know so I'm okay to fail um uh what is failure after all right uh and so and you need to do that to be outside your comfort zone not worry about Optics right so even if you say comfort you comfortable being outside your comfort zone but in 20056 you know today you know India's stock is you know all high everybody wants to be in India you see anything you know beyond you know your love for India I saw a lot of things uh mesh it's a small things that Cascade in your head so I left India in 1985 right so I spent I came back end of 2005 and spent one month in India which I had not done in 20 years right of course I visited every year but it would be at most a week right then that time I spent on my own which also I had not done wandering up and down India I went to rural India I went to Urban India just traveling uh I spent a whole day in a guram mall which was a fascinating thing because there were no malls when we grew up right and this was 2005 even guro didn't have so many malls right and just talk to random people the one good thing in India's people will talk to you they'll tell you their whole life story right uh and uh uh just the confidence of people their own view of their life and the consumer aspect spiration right uh uh was interesting and I remember I went to a Reliance Fresh store to pick up something Reliance fresh at that time was putting these stores and as I was standing in the line a funny incident happened the cashier tried to push me ahead in the line and there was a guy standing in front of me who uh probably was uh a blue color uh person you know and I wasn't even looking to cut the line but uh we all grew up with the Saji Wala trying to treat you as the favorite or whatever and he just said U no I mean uh I'm in the line right so and that was great for me to say India from a equitability and that confidence uh is also the lines of blurring right to say my uh rupee is the same as your rupe right and that's a big societal shift that also was important then I remember just taking a taxi and this Taxi Driver talking to me saying next week he was going on a vacation so I started asking him where are you going on a vacation right he said I'm going to Bangkok I mean these were all Revelations to me and uh um and then he said to me you know I work very hard I deserve a holiday I was thinking my father when did he aspire to take a holiday he would never think of going to Bangkok if we took a holiday it was on LTC which uh if you are a child of any government employee you will know what I mean and it would be to some place where you have a relative or a friend whose house you can stay right so it was almost Unthinkable you'll stay in a hotel and indulge yourself right I saw to me such big societal shifts I said how is this going to be served it requires uh new brands technology at its Forefront because that's the only way access and afford ability can reach Mass without technology you can't uh do that right so I saw a perfect recipe so this was not just a uh passion project of course passion is important uh because otherwise you're not motivated to do anything but to me at least the 85 India I left the 2005 India I saw was a confident aspirational Nation that uh was uh ready for uh ready and demanding experiences right when I first met you yeah um to me it was not Unthinkable that someday we will solve the problems of actually building a large internet business that's based on lifestyle right because these were all the back points to why I got excited with your vision of uh mintra of course there were many cood delivery those are all problems to solve but did I fundamentally believe in the opportunity uh the first time I met you believed in the opportunity in fact I believed even before I met you because I didn't know you but I used minra as a customer and uh the customer service that you had created even as a young mintra was so good I said you know Indian consumers want customer service but they don't get it right the conventional retail has never really served the customer it's like you you exist um uh it's not that you customer is King has never been the Mantra right uh when could you return things before the Ecommerce Advent return you never could return anything right so the consumer was never right so that people would pay for that uh uh relationship of consumer leverage was not uh such a distant idea uh for me right so I was very excited for the new India excellent I'm glad you know you could see early signs and enough conviction to move back you know Lock Stock and Barrel you know your kids were very small at the time you know and imagine it being easy but also you know just like you move back you know some of the other people like sub Ashish Gupta so we are also comes the Indian you know entreprene ecosystem benefited from these folks who spend one or two decades in us being part on the either as an entrepreneur or a professional or a VC and so the whole ecosystem also benefited from that thought process you know personally for me also having worked in us for 10 years for bunch of startups I kind of knew the startup DNA so that was you know would have been very difficult to imagine all of that from scratch right sitting in yeah I think um you know for the decision to move back was easy the question was are there entrepreneurs you can fund because the notion of capital for Equity though today is so common place in 2006 was a alien concept you know and I had entrepreneurs ask what is the catch right because this concept we had debt right but we didn't really had risk Capital what do I have to collateralized do you need a personal collateral no you don't right so this whole risk Capital Equity mindset also was not that uh entrenched but having been beneficiary of that as an entrepreneur myself then uh I think we had uh an opportunity to create this early model um for India and if a startup ecosystem has to grow um you need certain ingredients of course you need the entrepreneurs because they are the uh Source right they are the glue that holds it together but you need risk capital and you need people who uh are patient and are not I mean of course you need returns but for the sake of returns don't do uh wrong things in the development of the company out of anxiety not wrong things from a compliance but wrong things from operational uh and strategic involvement right you have to give a little bit of free reign to the founder uh not on governance but on operations and strategy right and you have to be a little patient and all of that grounding whether it was sh Ashish me sudhir and a handful of people had already gone through personal experience of that right so and so before you know you started karing Bay Area you built two startup both had a phenomenal outcome uh but in those companies you know you were backing yourself in some ways like you know and then shifting gear I mean changing country very different ecosystem and also changing the modelers ofai where you are not going to execute anymore you're Bing other people to execute how was that transition for you like you know both in terms I'm sure there are a lot of benefits having buil company on your own relatability but also not being able to drive things on your own and letting somebody in know especially you know earli entrepreneurs they're all you know and somebody very naive also don't know like what will work what will not work so how was that whole transition for you in first few years um you know Mukesh we are all typas so people have a misn noral that type means you micromanage type means that you can't let go of control and uh you have to do it all right I think to me type just means that you demand a lot out of yourself that's really what a type is more than its relationship with others right to me after 10 years and the way I always thought about it is 40 quarters of being a CEO yeah delivering quarterly results um I was done with it it didn't hold uh that uh interest for me I could perhaps do it a third time better or worse uh we don't know path not taken and what the destiny would have been but it really just didn't interest me that much um I'll tell you two quick stories one I told how life uh goes not by your plan but if anybody had asked me in my early 20s uh uh I think I saw myself as a intellectual maybe a Prof Professor maybe you know uh teaching uh all those had some charm to me but I didn't go down that route so to sort of not be the one in the center was for me by Nature all right right the type was really about expectations of myself not that I have to own everything so not being operationally involved was okay because I was entrepreneurial in a different way I was building my own firm right so that has its own set of challenges people think a VC job is very glamorous it isn't glamorous also in addition I know I don't think at all I don't think anything about my job is glamorous but uh uh but it was entrepreneurial in its own way and it was fulfilling for me but I didn't need to control the founder or be involved in their work right and if you are a leader who has built companies you already learn that your role is to hire great leaders right and Empower them if you're the best engineer in your company or you're the best marketeer and you're the best of everything or you think like that then you are probably not building the right leadership firm right so the control part was very easy and natural but the uh uh aspect of uh empowering others I had uh attended a talk by C Eastwood and somebody asked him this question and he said you know of course I've been a successful actor but the I realize that I have so much more joy in being a director who is creating the stories that puts the actors in other actors in the spotlight so I have a reflected Halo right so when you succeeded at minra there is a deep Pride for me also right and what you built with cult brand right of course you've done all of the work and heavy lifting but having participated in seeing that from the front row right uh so to speak there is also a joy and a learning and hopefully some small impact or difference we made in that Journey so I think this notion that if you are a operating person you can't let go you have to know yourself well but I don't think it's that hard at least for me it was a very natural um sequence of doing something else new and different got it and your on companies as well probably hiring senior leaders and empowering and delegating and so in some way so that uh template continues I think just you know since you mentioned know MRA and c I think I've been very fortunate to with you sub sudhir all of us worked together for last 16 years just probably very unique I don't think there that many partnership I hope it continues I think it's been incredibly helpful I've gone through my own Journey but I think through that Evolution I think I able to count on lot of support guidance you know different inputs from different you know investment board members so I think it was a great you know symbiotic not was is great symbiotic relationship I think I think a lot of Founders um and it's a whole different conversation than the one we are having right now but uh don't think deeply about what do you need in that relationship and a lot of times and we have never had adversarial relationship we may have difference of opinions when I say we I mean as as a whole board and investor group and the management team including you right I've never had a adversarial relationship over many years right and I I I think Founders don't think enough about how that alters uh your life the Deep trust right uh to work for work together for a common outcome and for a common good that can be very empowering and I get very sad when I see ideas that really had a lot of Merit and Founders who are very talented and somewhere this relationship uh aspect uh goes sideways uh and uh uh reason and maturity goes out the window and emotion takes over but I think one of the reasons we have been together able to build mintra to the PowerHouse thats and cult to the PowerHouse that itties is because there was a deep uh uh trust uh and involvement uh collect itively and you know it it works wonderfully especially when things don't go well I mean as recently as the you know pandemic 20 now starting to forget the years 2020 21 21 22 so difficult yeah but I mean but we never had internal problems I think board was fully behind the company there was a huge empowerment and also full transparency from our point of company there's really nothing to hide or not share with the board and that you know that but I think were unique there uh Mukesh from the very beginning you brought a very deep transparency but also responsibility nobody asked you but you said look I'm not taking a salary because of this and this situation in the company uh the board never asked and would have never asked because that's not a fair ask but setting that example as a leader and then even in the very that and some can say that's very easy for you to do today maybe because you have a different Financial stability but I I think even early in mra's Journey when uh you know there was an aggressive operating plan and we w't quite to the plan I think you uh proactively not only keeping the uh board informed but saying look I take responsibility as a leader for not meeting the plan I that may have been natural for you from your personality but I think it is unique and um some of those seemingly small things make a very very big difference to building that trusted relationship but more importantly setting that overall culture and example for the company thanks I'm glad you remember all those I think you go through lots of ups and downs and I think ultimately navigating those um challenging near-death experience I think which company doesn't go through right including which VC firm doesn't go through you know sometime but how does one navigate I guess that's when some way end up ends up building your own character but also the firm's character a lot of people around you see that and I mean I've been a huge proponent of you know just obsessing about the culture when is building the organization which creates you know so minra and I've been out of fit for now eight plus years but a lot of people still tell me like there something about m is still the same and that can only happen during your foundational years so glad you know we were able to do what we did together I'm going to ask you a lot about you know VC and startup but I want first change they want to and go to a topic of common interest you know which is health and fitness uh I think ever since I've known you always very active I think there was a time you were trkking you know all these crazy places I think my notes says you know clim Mount claro at some point which is 6,000 M you know which is pretty serious height I think I'll never be more than 12,000 ft which is what 4,000 M and you know you've been an avid cult user I think you've uh stress tested most of the cult offerings you know yes especially in White Field and uh you know of late I think you've been going very deep into yoga meditation this whole you know Journey for your start and how did evolve over a period of time and I think we both have certain things in um uh common one is uh of course the whole self-care aspect and not feeling guilty about that and I think that's s sometimes a mindset of our upbringing that if you take time for yourself somehow uh that's selfish and I uh debunk that you know suddenly you are now in control yeah of whatever may happen outside but you know how you react is going to so the trigger to just send that mad email that you should have never sent to begin with all of those uh you know are untrained impulses and uh we see untrained impulses in children and we trying to train them and it's cute as a child but as a adult child if somebody does that we kind of Judge it right but we behave that way many times that we don't self- recognize right you behave out of impulse so that was the trigger for me to say I need this deeper journey of self-awareness to live life intentionally on my terms right right so your meditation Journey started before your fitness journey my meditation Journey started my before my fitness journey and then like I said I realized how unfit I was and I also said this is a long life is a long marathon and so uh you know I have to get fit um for to have the energy for my children for me to work work at the pace that I work uh and all of that so I always feel you I I'm a very go and structure oriented person that's just my either trained personality or born personality I no longer know the difference between the two but it is what it is I'm very structured in my thinking of taking a problem breaking it down and so forth so I saw a marathon coming up and I said I'm going to run a marathon and until then I had not run 1 kilom also right how how many months before the marathon was did I think it was about 8 months okay and 8 Months 8 to 9 months is actually sufficient time even if you have never run to systematically plan and my thought process was if you set a goal out there then you develop the uh discipline and the process and the thing is these things uh percolate deeply into all aspect of your life right the discipline to focus the discipline to set big goals and work on them systematically uh there may be a day or two that you're frustrated but you don't give up don't quit right that don't quit attitude I think has helped me more than anything else in life not just in running a marathon but in uh everything so you're trained for that marathon on finish so actually we trained but we did not do the San Jose full Marathon did a half marathon first yeah then few months later did the mother of all marathons which is a Greek marathon and Greek Marathon starts from the city of Marathon uh from the tombs of marathon and ends in the Athens Stadium which is the origination of the concept of marathon so if you go back to uh history on uh what happened there which is always fascinated me um uh the guarding of the Gateway of Europe uh was that in moment right um so we ran that Marathon the lesson there though is you see a 2d map and you say oh yeah 70° incline that's okay but when you actually running the 70° incline so it was quite hilly from what we trained so idea to full marathon with less than a year less than a year I mean the marathon for those who don't know is about almost 42 kilm I have never done more than half marathon you know that also with lot of effort so it's quite commendable but I think this also one mind you there's this um quote I really like which says how you do one thing is how you do everything yeah in some ways you know you applied you were running your startup you had the structured thought process and able to strategize tactic and not quitting and showing up every day you know which TR into good performance at you know being able to run a marathon within one year and probably many other things including this just briefly talk about this you know kjaro clim you know that sounds very exotic as well as very strenuous so I think in some social studies class maybe in Class 7 or Class 8 I don't remember uh when we were you know reading GE geography this Wonder of something that's very close to Equator and in Africa and having a glacier cap somehow fascinated me and of course I'd not even stepped outside of Hyderabad till I went to us right I never traveled on a plane or whatever till I was 21 so the notion of going to Africa to climb something was very far-fetched but there are some notion oh this would be cool to go to this mountain which has so many zones because you start out with a you know uh it goes through every zone right uh and you end up at the glacier but you go through a rainforest Zone you go through a sub Sahara zone so there is all you know desert and then you go through uh tropical zon so this is a unique Mountain um from geography and like I said it's so close to the equator right so it always fascinated me and uh packing for this is hard training for it is hard just because you have to pack for different zones the clothes you wear and all of that hot one day in 3 days you get into really cold uh and so all of that right so again it was the same thing we did a one year of training uh figure out your gear because marathon is one thing but this requires different gear planning mhm all of that and you know and uh it was the same drill uh set a goal uh plan condition yourself and attempt it with meditation okay let's let's has come back to you know the early stage so Kari most of your focus have been you know mostly I think early stage investment you was to stay with the company for a long Peri of time and look you know and a lot of first time entrepreneurs you come and Pitch to you and as a you I was a first time entrepreneur in was going time and I remember being know very just uh scared of VCS you know it was quite a task you know walking into a VC off I think some they used to be more formal also at the time compared to they there now but today you know when someone you know Green you know who is doing it for first time this first six month into that comes and you pites to you what do you look for you know what are the few things in first meeting that possibly stand out for you which encourages to invest more time in that person or that in idea so I also in my life have pitched to a lot of VCS right and uh have many experiences um some wonderful many not some humorous um and you know because you meet many kind of people in life but one thing uh I realized early on in my life is I have to be myself and the biggest journey of life is first knowing who you are and then Having the courage to just be authentic you for example not because of any any reason it's just a choice I'm a tea Toler I don't smoke I'm a vegetarian right and then automatically the world today especially the young people people think you have no fun in life and that's you really a very boring life I don't know I I'm happy with my life that's really all it is at the end of the day right but living your authentic life and not being apologetic to it I think those these are all again things that permeate through your life right so to me one of the things intentionally when I was building kalari was how and what can we do to make Founders feel a bit more relaxed I have no interest in putting founders us into extra pressure in pitching to us right so how we designed our front office or how we designed our environment or how people are greeted uh uh you know how they're escorted those are things again I think intentionally at kalari we put a lot of focus into and uh I don't know what your experience as a Founder was but I have lot of Founders who say you know we felt very comfortable in the office and I still remember those I think tiys on that yeah reception area that was a wait time you know that was a thing to snack on yeah so you just lot of little things like this because I sat in many VC offices how do you start founder on the time or if you are running late how do you apologize to them that their time too matters even if they have come to you for funding and just ingraining these courtesies into the firm that we don't exist if entrepreneurs don't exist right a job entrepreneur is my customer so but I have to treat them like a customer right uh so and um but when first time entrepreneurs or any entrepreneurs come uh the first thing for me because I'm a product Centric person which is why I like to do seed ciesa right and we have kept our fund size to a certain size so we can continue to focus on this I'm not that interested in getting involved in companies once they reach a certain size because the need they have from us is slightly different right is understanding the product Vision so I tend to do well with Founders who have Relentless focus on what is the product what is the product purpose what is the product experience and the clarity of that and how much Clarity and insights they have matters did I learn anything from their Insight matters the wrong thing in the pitches you know they talk to me about the next five or seven year plan which you know they can't know really and they probably hired some uh I don't know Banker or a kid who just finished their MBA to put it together they have no context of that plan so why bother I always if it gets out of hand stop them and say can you talk to me about your product right I want to understand the product you know from your vision right the more there is a insight and Clarity uh the market matters but not all founders know how to estimate a market and I'm not looking for that skill that will happen over time right what is there and I'm not looking for their Excel skills either right we can hire a cf4 to do that uh because you're not going to learn anything uh about your own business that way but I think the key is do you have a unique value proposition that you bring to solve this problem yeah right and that if I find in a Founder I get very excited got it no and irrespective of the whether found is just fresh out of college or 10 years of experience like the primary thing you're looking for is unique insight about the problem and also the product approach you know is has a Clarity and the kind of commitment to build a product that consumers will love and what is interesting is whether they're fresh out of college or you would think somebody has 20 years of experience or whatever and they would be better at doing this I don't think so I think there are certain kind of thinkers uh that uh uh get into problem s uh very deeply and are very passionate about a problem and the approach to solve it right and that's what at least I uh connect to uh very well and in fact even in the board meetings it's very hard for me to focus on aop this that and all that until I understand what are your assumptions that are driving right you know how are you envisioning the bigger purpose and picture of your uh business because aop and all that is a derivative out of it if that is not clear then everything is just numbers you don't know how you're going to even achieve those numbers or why you know if you achieve those numbers why that's going to build a valuable business right absolutely I think that makes so much sense to me I just want to repeat that you know it's a just you Obsession about building something that somebody's going to love if you achieve that chance lot more people will also like it and aop and business plan will build itself I think it applies to both um early stage but in a existing company and now I'm thinking of you know what we are doing curefit even building a new thing again starting with a number top down Market size 1010 billion what is that's not going to do anything unless someone you know that new product so I think it's a worth repeating again you know in the early stage of any new initiative it has to be about product and the earning that customer love because what you're building is so unique and I think there are great examples of Founders who have not been product Founders and they have successed eded but that's much smaller number most companies succeed if there is a product founder who has a strong vision of the product and a strong connect and relationship to the customer experience um uh and if those two are very hard to hire all the other functions branding uh Finance all of those can be hired so there are only very very few Founders that I know who don't have the product and yet have succeeded and somewhere they may have still been closet Founders or closet product people right so I look for product Centric Founders call it clear you were talking about health right I see that you have an aura I do too and then we have the watch so in some ways what's your relationship with uh gadgets and health yeah I think for two for one here one is I feel you know I think you use the word you know selfcare I don't think I can function with without investment my health for me sleep Fitness and do some extent meditation is just integral for like everything else probably put my kids ahead of you know that but in all the work stuff you know come later and I see my efficiency mood everything keeps falling if I am away from that so one is that I think just you know very deep conviction I just it's like a fuel you know which allows me to function gadgets you know cure fit you know we've been learning a lot about Health Fitness and I have a you know bit of Science Background little you know that geeky side to me just learning about all these numbers and today I think we live in such interesting times where the entire human body is getting digitized we know so much more I until recently people knew way more about their car and their house than about their own body yes but these gadgets are enabling that right so I can of enjoy learning I have the CGM thing also on yeah so I think I don't look at this data anymore that much but I think it's great I think I'm very excited about you know what's to come in coming future as a ecosystem I think in 2024 we are dealing with all the excess money that got raised in 2021 right you know the valuation were you know stratospheric and pretty much so much easy money was available do you also think over somewhere this larger Indian ecosystem has little bit paid the price for too much Capital coming in too early or compared to size opportunity um you know mukes I look at life from very simple views okay uh I don't know who has paying the price or not paying the price but ultimately uh there is a causal nature and uh excesses get corrected and and that's inevitable yeah and in that process there will always be winners and losers right certain principles even if there was an excess if you have that Keen focus of long-term thinking of your business you're less likely to pay the price I want to ask and there you know this the entreprene ecosystem you know question so Indian you know wec entreprene ecosystem roughly about you know 20 year old around the time and you move back and you spend you know 20 years in Silicon Valley what are what are big differences in those Silicon Valley ecosystem versus Indian startup ecosystem because you have the vantage point of you know deeply admiss both and you I think you continue to be engaged with the silic value ecosystem as well do you see any major difference between the two there are three or four major differences one of course is is depth of Market size which sometimes gets forgotten okay so the kind of money and valuation that goes into uh Silicon Valley or us also has a implied size of a market and the rapidness with which that market can be accessed India you know business story is operationally far more uh intense right it's like our traffic uh if you have to travel uh 40 km in uh uh us it's not a big commute uh in India every day if you have to commute 40 km in Bangalore you're going to end up with lots of issues uh stress uh apart from uh physical issues with that level of travel right so it's like that speed the speed of business in US is a different speed than ours it's not a good or a bad thing you just have to tune to this what happens many times is we think we can go at that speed you cannot your car cannot drive at that speed because the road doesn't allow same with your business right you can only drive a ship to the power of the engine right so that's a big thing where somehow it's law of physics and it gets and hence law of business and it gets forgotten again and again yeah it will take a lot longer to build businesses in India for many reasons which uh is a different uh topic and you have to gear for that and build at that pace right I think probably one more difference is you know there are no likes of Google Facebook Microsoft who can acquire companies in US majority of exit happen through acquisition to these companies which are you know very happy and willing to pay cash but there are two aspects to it they're willing to pay cash for deep IP companies first of all we don't have de IP companies secondly they themselves have a certain market cap which doesn't have right so you know what they're willing to pay is all very relative right so we don't have a 3 trillion company that's our entire GDP not that company valuation GDP is related but it's a metaphor right so you know uh at Nvidia where do we have a trillion dollar hardware company right we don't have any companies worth a trillion dollars right so I think this notion of Google is not there to acquire so I think Capital efficiency and the speed of building a business is a concept that every founder has to educate themselves which is very different from value to here it doesn't mean we can't build valuable businesses here and still make money and all of that right so that's one big difference the second is you know uh Eastern culture is a very deeply Community culture and Western culture is a very individualistic culture now startup Founders by Nature somewhere have to be a bit warped to be somewhat individualistic culture right you have to somewhere uh be a little bit of a Meg megalomaniac I believe in my conviction others don't believe I don't care you know uh I march to my own drum beat a little bit of that is needed right or a lot of that is needed but we tend to get influenced more broadly right uh that uh may or may not play up to take deep risks yeah I also think our aspirations mhm see you unless you want to win a gold it is you're not going to end up in Olympics accidentally and get a gold medal right it's years of training so what is your focus if you want to make junior leagues you'll make that you'll never become an Olympic Athlete right it's a different training process so are you aiming to build that large business right many times there is a we have as a culture funny relationship with money building a business is nothing to do with making money or having that private jet or whatever they are all byproducts your fulfillment is coming from the pride of the business you built right we have to more and more uh instill that and create role models that you want to Aspire to be like right and some of that is happening but it has taken more of 20 years to get there right right right some Founders had great opportunity they sell early right and why and we have to just think about these uh uh Concepts and uh ideas of balancing risk with outcomes so these are some foundational differences that I see uh which but in The Last 5 Years I'm seeing a big shift in the entrepreneurial mindset mhm and you know with that shift coming in entrepreneur mindset you know other big shift is you know right now India is on the world's radar and I think the hype is getting to a fever pitch yeah mostly for the right reasons you like all the numbers are there largest you know growing economy in the world demographic dividend stable government paas of Reform sexting and so on and so looking just from that backdrop you know compared to like when you and I move back to India how should today's investor and today's entrepreneur think about you know the the size of opportunity and how to play it in India see in the Venture industry if you can an alpha return is like 10x return right if I have a fund that returns 10x which very few funds do globally right that's like a big Alpha return so India at 100 uh you know whether it's a 30 trillion economy or as some assume it has a potential to be a 40 trillion economy is a India Alpha yeah right at a country level that is a generational opportunity that happens maybe 300 400 years if you have read rise and fall of Nations uh you see that civilizations go through that big burst and then sometimes then they uh because you can't keep up that pace right and then they sort of stabilize um and so forth we saw that before for Europe and then America China India's time Under the Sun so to speak so India has India at 100 has a alpha right if a country is having Alpha that comes from that as a dividend to uh you know the citizens at large it must if it doesn't then it'll create deep social problems the reform the government uh as it rightly should has to be about wealth distribution deeper into the um Society U 1% of the people can't hold 80% of the wealth that doesn't work in a social uh um uh uh graph right so and startups are great for that because they more democratic about uh division of wealth right um so and that's why also I like the startups from a economic value creation for a country right as a economic value engine even for the U country so I think there is a big Indian Alpha and we are very fortunate I think generationally fortunate to be in this moment uh I didn't know that when I was born 60 years ago that I'd be sitting in this moment of India's life right so so for startups and hence the um uh others involved in the ecosystem whether that's investors whether that's whatever the support infrastructure yeah I don't think there's a better time and for Founders also uh whether it's India to Global you and I were talking earlier about deep dech India kind of saying we can also be a leader in technology which we never really have been we may have been leader in applications but not on technology you we whether it's ISRO over years that has shown Capital efficiency we're talking about Capital efficiency look at what they've done right so creating a whole industry of space Tech and you have been deeply involved in that as a angel investor also and early mentor and you know so all of that if you and Manufacturing what is happening with India with that India's EV uh uh IP and so on so forth if you see uh there is a Industrial Development uh at a Grassroots level and also from the incumbents significant Capital going at the infrastructure level ports uh which you need uh in order to develop economy and so on so forth right so I think it's a very very exciting time yeah this a good mental model keep in mind I think what you're calling India Al for you know the economy growing nearly 10x over next 25 years which is which is not that long you know it's been nearly 20 years and see when I move back to India so under 20 years will happen and if you are able to see this Alpha happen anyone who picks a problem and just stays with it for a long period of time is bound to do well the only thing people who are just when we keep jumping one another and you very myopic and looking for Stellar returns 2 threee period is probably the only way or Quin you may lucky to get a quick win but just focus on winning quick or not is a matter of Destiny and letting the compounding happen I mean if the country is you know compound to 10x just that's just average if you do like dramatically better you could do 100x exactly and you should aim for that that's right you know if you aim for that uh and I think I believe several entrepreneurs will be able to achieve that right and I feel extremely privileged every time I sit with a founder because I learned something and one of the most important thing I have learned is to go into every meeting with a open mind not to think that I know everything I don't because the founder has invested tremendous time thinking about that problem I have not right so I think Founders will compound uh 100x whatever and if we are privileged to be with them that's a fun ride right and part of you know our Founders compounding 100x I have to ask you this why mean the whole VC and on are still count of heavily skewed you know just male dominated and very few and I hardly know you know women investors you know that mean you are obviously a very prominent one but not that many and same for entrepreneurs and you talk about it it probably worries you who needs to do what for this to change not changing fast enough so um my own story I remember talking to uh this invest who gave me my angel investment first and if I look back I was so ignorant okay and years later I talked to him and said why did you invest in me right at that point I was just happy to take the money somebody believing in you and you need that at that point right you don't have all the answers anybody can invest when you have all the answers but somebody has to connect the dots in certain way that maybe others are not connecting right um so he said you know when you were pitching because my area was very different I didn't understand what you were pitching right but you were very confident about the problem and your solution though I didn't understand it and then I felt in judging people that you will not quit you will do your very best okay now you can't ask anybody to do more than their best right that's all they can do and then he said um my daughter I was thinking about her and I said you know she has no Role Models right and I have a responsibility to create if I can to create role models for her so I thought I invest so much then why not right of course he was an angel investor not a fund and you know while that's not very comforting because he didn't say invested because I was brilliant and wowed him or whatever but fine right but the thing I took away is do you give people chances right do you try and uh if each of us did a little bit of that mukes it makes a difference you have to for the right reasons believe in a person and many times we are pattern recognizing certain things it may be nothing more than I went to I kpur these people are from I kpur they stayed in the same dorm and uh somebody I know knows them maybe that's the only reason you're Angel Investing right it's not that at a early stage there are many reasons to why you are convinced to invest right now those networks don't happen for women but if people like you I who have opportunity to invest if we kind of can break that mold I could not be here if someone didn't believe in me at some point right for whatever reasons they believed even if it was to say and it was very I thought Progressive and forward thinking and his own daughter by the way is now uh just uh uh uh a Doctor Who uh is phenomenally respected um uh you know 30 years later fast forward a young girl grown up right but if we all say we have to create future Role Models maybe you get to create only one yeah right but that one could have a ripple effect right so you know even the C xxo program I've started is for that reason to say if we can invest in five six women Founders a year not that you are not validating their business plan or whatever but all of our validation today has inherent biases that is called a pattern right we all recognizing certain patterns this college this community this sector you know there are many things and those patterns work against women largely but part of self-awareness is also to understand the implied biases in your pattern and try to break that and if more people did that and at least did some portion of their investing more mindfully into women uh Founders uh you know you will create that ripple effect so just saying you know action speaks louder than words and I think everyone has a choice at least those who genuinely sincerely care about it and in a position of for enabling a path for someone and I mean you are obviously an incredible role model but the more role model we see it will also Inspire other people to kind of follow in their footsteps and you know feel uh that you they can also also do it as somebody they can relate to yeah I hope you know lot more of that happens you one last question one for you this is for maybe targeting you know aspiring VCS now you have been seen a VC journey I think we see also I think by any stud of imagination not a easy profession uh what does a learning curve for a VC look like you know people who want to potentially be VCS what first of all how should they think whether this is for me or not and if they want to become a VC what does you know five or 10 year Journey for them look like to actually become a good investor and enabler for the founders they'll work with see um whatever you want to become call that VC call that I don't know athlete call that founder I think it's really important to first figure out why M and why do you want to be that and what are you willing to invest into it often times when I ask people why do you want to be a VC uh you know oh I want to make a difference to your founder how are you going to make a difference to the founder oh I'll help them with their strategy but why are you qualified to help them with their strategy you know and that's the last thing you can help a Founder with right imagine me trying to help you with your strategy at minra I me have a opinion but it cannot supersede your opinion because you are doing this 20 hours a day How will I know more than you about strategy now I may be able to help you in many other areas but strategy is actually the last of the things VC's ought to help with at least from my perspective so I think a VC is you have to commit at least 10 if not 15 years of your life if you want to validate yourself as a BC are you any good any bad because that's how long the company are going to take are you willing to put that much time into your career to do that if you're motivated to do that my motivation was I really still today feel uh I was extremely lucky to have an opportunity at the ground zero of a evolving ecosystem and be able to learn and participate as it grew along right and um I don't go into Mental Math of if I did X Maybe would have made more money if I did why who knows I don't know right but I am simply happy doing my job every day so if you a VC and you're going to look at your personal wealth equation or a Founder you know every year it's not going to work if you focus on you know certain areas you want to go deep into and build expertise much like the founder has to even a VC has to and you would develop a investment thesis you develop a Playbook and you're disciplined for 10 15 years you will win you will have losses but you will win but you got to give that 10 15 years and be disciplined right so it needs to be a very carefully considered Choice first of all being clear about why you are getting in the first place because it may not be for every for example I know I probably cannot be good VC because you know I just have want too much control I know in terms of driving things and just watching from a distance is it is difficult for me and hence you know I choose to do project where I'm more of a operator or maybe I give advice but knowing fully well that you know entrepreneur will make you know their own choice so I think understand reason the value ad and then going through a 10 to 15 year apprenticeship to really learn the tricks of the trade and go through many cycles and see your own portfolio power law experiencing that is probably going to vary but I think you know India's 10x Alpha has to happen I think entrepreneurs and wecs you know also have huge role to play because I don't think just traditional industry alone is going to create I think technology has to play bigger and bigger role and where that's where I think this wec entreprene ecosystem is going to play a very big role but one thing I just want to say uh thank you for taking the time I think there's so many different things we were able to speak about I'm pretty sure people who watch this you know will will take a lot of inspiration for things you have to share as well as apply some of these you know tools and Concepts in their lives a great conversation as you know that uh I have a lot of personal respect for you personal affection for you and I think as a firm we have made a lot of money uh being involved with you thank you for that right we couldn't continue to do fund after fund without Founders uh uh deeply committed one thing you always did was to say I need my shareholders to make money and that's not uh negotiable and you always stood up uh for yourself your team and your shareholders and uh I wish those were capsules we could feed everyone in the ecosystem but I'm uh grateful for that role model you created also early on in the ecosystem thank you and you're very kind and hope we continue to do that and I think we'll have lot of collaborator collaboration ahead of us in future as well thank you at spots we aim to bring to you stories of exponential impact we share in-depth analysis of what goes behind success stories if you find our conversations interesting you can join us by subscribing to our YouTube channel you can also listen to Sparks on Spotify Apple podcast or any other audio platform of your choice if you have any suggestions on who we should invite or what topics we need to cover just let us know in the comments we are always listening looking for ways to improve and keep getting better as we go [Music] along

Channel: SparX by Mukesh Bansal

Views: 109,864

Keywords: entrepreneurship, business, billionaire mindset, shark tank, podcast, entrepreneur kaise banein, bangalore, startups, business school, founders, how to start a business, raj shamani, wtfwithnikhilkamath, nykaa, venture capital jobs, vani kola success story, success story, venture capital meaning

Id: mvBpXBKEsVk

Length: 59min 55sec (3595 seconds)

Published: Mon Apr 08 2024