US gymnast Rachel Haines opens up about abuser Larry Nassar

Rachel thanks for having us over today and for allowing us to come into your home why didn't were you when you first jumped on a gymnastics mat well it was with the assistance of my mother it was actually in a mother and Me class and I was just 2 years old when I first went out into the gym with her and do you remember what the feeling was like it 2 years of age or so it's I see pictures of it but then I remember the feelings of almost like this fear but adrenalin rush even at 2 years old of flipping around rolling around feeling my feet above my head it was this like scary but so exciting and I was at 2 years old a little even addicted to that feeling so this love for gymnastics developed really and straightaway in your life and you were always pretty driven and competitive yeah even as a young girl yeah where did that drive and competitiveness come from it's always been inside me where I feel like I need to be the best and I don't know if the sport shaped me that way where I am still that way now but it was it's always just been whatever I'm doing I have to do my peak at I have to reach my full potential you were 11 when you went to your first national competition yes what was the feeling like when you were driving there I know was a bit of a drive away but what were you nervous were you anxious how are you feeling going to this big thing that you wouldn't built up to for so long you know my very first year I was just excited I felt like I had earned this opportunity and I was just thrilled to be there I was a little scared because at that moment I was getting migraines - at the same time and so I was struggling with the stress and worry of am I gonna get a migraine at this and I remember getting when they in the car ride and so that excitement kind of turned to this worry and fear of migraines but I wasn't scared of the competition I was just excited that I had earned to be there but the migraine that you were worried about him the carrot you did end up getting a migraine at the competition I mean these weren't just headaches they were pretty severe weren't they yeah yeah they would bring me to the point of we had this regiment that we had to follow it was if I got the headaches I would have to sleep for three hours I would end up throwing up a few times and I would have to take my magic medication and then then they would go away the next day it was just I mean they just knocked you right out it was I'd go blind in one eye and we started on beam and I remember putting my knee started you see what's ahead with this yeah I remember putting my hands on the beam for a warm-up and that's when the spots started and you have exactly 30 minutes once the spots start before the headache comes on and so I I went completely blind in my eye and by that time it was time to compete so I was like okay and I remember saluting the judge and that's when the headache started and that's when the blindness started to really take over and I got through the beam routine it wasn't pretty whatsoever I think I ended up getting like an eight nine which is horrible but had to leave the arena at that point because I was starting to throw up because of the pain so you had to bow out halfway through it but then that drive that you have and that one to succeed and prove yourself caused you to go back the following year and then what happened I treated that whole meet like I earned being there and then I was trying to redeem myself from not being able to finish the previous year and I ended up I ended up winning you won that one Wow I'm at this stage what are you thinking in your head in terms of your career I had ambitions to keep doing gymnastics through college and I've been to a few college gymnastics meets my cousin did college gymnastics and so I was just like I think I think that's where I'm supposed to be and that became my absolute ultimate goal and this was that you get a scholarship to go to gymnastics college and yes the drive you had again was making you get up and drive for two hours every morning to this gym which is one of the best in the country yes and then train and then a two hour drive back home again every day I got Sundays off six days a week yeah four hours in the car for your love of the sport yes at the gym there was a man called Larry Nasser mm-hmm did you know of the name Larry Nasser before you were going to the gym hi everybody knew Larry's name I mean if you if you watch the Olympics as a gymnast which we all did when we were little we'd sit in the linen living room with our leotards on and watch the Olympics I watched the famous Kerri Strug do her vault and if you don't know that name she's the she's the USA gymnast who won America gold vaulting on a broken ankle and she finished her second vaults landing on one foot and Larry's the one who carried her off the mat and so from that moment that doctor was just on this pedestal for me he was he was the Olympic doctor he saw the best he carried Olympians off maths and so I knew that name pretty well so you must have been incomplete all going in to meet this famous doctor mm-hmm everybody was what was he like when you first met him oh he was so friendly he's this he was very good at manipulating manipulating you to believe he was this kind-hearted genuine person and when you first meet him he laughs with you he he jokes about things that you're stressed about to kind of lighten up the mood he makes it seem easy to talk to him he made it seem that he was a friend from the beginning he was good at putting on this act yes mm-hmm and at the time you you really admired him and oh yeah you thought the world of him did you yes yes exactly and was he well-liked within the gym by the other people too or did they were they fearful of him or he was so good at being the person he needed to be so he kind of took the shape of the man you needed him to be whether that was a listener an empathetic person and you just needed to vent to somebody whether that was a therapist or a counselor that you needed to talk to your issues with whether that was a father figure you needed he became that for you and so everybody in the gym loved Larry everybody in the gym trusted Larry with everything and he was he officially trained the team was that right he was the official trainer for our team but then on the side he volunteered to do this kind of extra work where he would offer physical treatment to some of the gymnast so his whole his whole position was volunteer he was a doctor at MSU he had his own clinic he was for the MSU gymnastics team and then he volunteered his time with our team and would come in every Monday night and stay from 8:00 p.m. to midnight even later to treat all of us for free for absolutely no charge how did it come to be Rachael that you were first treated by Larry no sir so I tore my hamstring right around 12 13 and I went to go see our team doctor which was Larry and in the very first meeting with us it was the back room of his gym of our gym it was in this equipment room he said okay I'm gonna do an internal manipulation on you in the very first meeting so this wasn't in his clinic this was in a small room in the gym that was normally used for storing equipment exactly I mean when he brought you in for his as what he called treatment you're on your own are you with your parents sir we were with the many other gymnasts that needed to see him at night you'd all be in the room and but he didn't do at any stage sit down and talk to your parents and say this is what I'm going to do with your daughter this is what I think she needs no curtain no door no consent and you were 13 at the time yes 13 and when he said he was going to do this what did he call it internal manipulation internal manipulation you I presume had no idea what that meant oh no and he he explained it but he explained almost it wasn't asking for consent it was almost a warning he said the muscles around your hamstring are really tight and they're causing you more pain than you should be dealing with and the only way that I can fix that pain and lessen the pain that you're in is by massaging those muscles but I can't get to them from the outside so I have to do the internal manipulation and at 13 years old I was like well I'm in a lot of pain I don't want to feel pain anymore and he's a doctor so sounds good I mean I didn't ever say yes it wasn't a consent thing it was more I'm telling you what I'm about to do and again you were thinking what he's the famous Larry Nasser the doctor and whatever he suggested it must be medically and scientifically sound whereas in reality there was no justification for what he was doing in medicine or science or anything and even more so there was no lubrication no gloves nothing I know you've trusted him because he was a doctor Bush was your mind in any way thinking something's not right here this shouldn't be happening my body reacted you know yeah I think when you're in an uncomfortable situation you start to like it that's the sweat the clammy hands and I was feeling that I remember my back would kind of cold sweat when this was happening and but my my head had to kind of convince myself it's okay like it's a he's a doctor and and women are always always told they won't remember your body they do this for a living and that kind of comforts us but I don't have that comfort anymore because he does he did remember because he did it with so many women you know when you left there what were you thinking after your first treatment I just remember thinking okay like the first treatment I was like okay that's done I don't have to do that again and then when I came back and it became a consistent thing I was like oh I can't wait to tell my injury is healed so I don't have to do this anymore how long did it go on for well I tore my hamstring and that last is it's like a six to eight-month recovery and then shortly after that I fractured my back so my for six to eight months would you see him regularly three times a week three times a week and the same internal manipulation every time and then you had a separate injury then yeah it wasn't your hamstring anymore what was it then the second time then I fractured my back yeah and the treatments continued even though separate injury separate part of the body and same treatment yeah and that was the first big red flag and that's kind of when I opened up to the other gymnast who had broken their back and I said are you getting this the same treatment and maybe like yep yep it's the same same muscles I'm like when you talk to the other girls about it and and you know when you could talk in confidence among your friends was there ever a stage when you said to them or they said to you I'm not sure if this is right or do you think he should be doing this we would always think that we were uncomfortable but we would quickly brush it away with it's Larry like he's making us feel better he's the reason that we're able to Train right now it was just so quickly brushed under the rug and again Larry is the guy who in his clinic I've heard you say before had the framed photographs all over the walls of the Olympian gymnast signed and yeah personal personal notes on all of the picture frames of these Olympic dancers swimmers divers gymnasts just absolutely flooded his walls and as a little gymnast myself with big goals and ambitions to be like those women it was intimidating but it was also kind of like comforting knowing I'm seeing this doctor who sees all these women he's the best of the best did you ever talk to your parents about her children yeah not did they ever ask you how treatment today or what exactly happened oh they would always ask always ask I mean how you feeling does it is it helping but they wouldn't know what the treatment was you didn't tell them about the internal regulation because did you know maybe they wouldn't approve of this for a day I don't know I think we always avoid topics that make us uncomfortable so I didn't want to I didn't want to talk to me we just like that yeah it was icky it made me feel gross the doctors time to leave it's fine yeah as time progressed you were excelling in the world of gymnastics and then you suffered a pretty horrific injury what happened so it was a Saturday morning practice my back had been really really stiff and sore from the previous day's conditioning assignment and I remember warming up being just looking at it and thinking I can't do the numbers today so I'm just gonna Chuck my routine on the beam I'm not gonna warm it up on the line on the floor first and I remember hopping up starting the routine and for a back tuck that was my first skill in the routine you swing forward first to get your momentum and then you swing back and I remember standing there swinging forward and I feel my back shift it was like the the muscles around it were so tight that it literally twisted my spine and we're taught in gymnastics that once you go for a skill you continue it it's more dangerous to Bach or to not continue the skill once you've started and so I swung back from the back tuck to get my height and I remember feeling it snap again and it was just all out of place at this point I still had to land I was in the air and I remember being so short and low to the beam that like my hair grazed the beam and so the first thing to land was actually my hands my hands came down and then my feet came down I just kind of crumbled to the floor and I remember when my hips hit the floor it shifted one last time and what had happened I had fractured my spine in three places and then shift the disks forward calling it they call it spondylolisthesis and they pushed forward into my spinal cord and and cut the nerves off into my legs I remember pinpointing where it hurt I said my legs are tingling and they said okay we're gonna call our team team doctor and see what see what he thinks and we called Larry and Larry said come over come and see me too clinic clinic so you get to his clinic and he discourages you from going to a hospital you and your parents and he convinced you that the only way of making a comeback and having a chance at regionals is if you kept seeing him three times a week wait for internal manipulation right and so you and your parents agreed because we all trusted him I mean he was he had the pictures he had all of this this background and we trusted him and we thought open about it yeah and he would almost joke about my other eye so my parents took me to see other doctors they wanted multiple opinions and all the doctors said no like you you've got to quit and Larry even joked about it he would say they don't they don't understand the sport of gymnastics the sport intimidates them and he would brush it off and say they have to tell you all of the things that could happen if you continue gymnastics because of liability and he would like roll his eyes and joke about it and and it turns out they were all telling the truth he said how do you want to compete regionals this is all dependent on how strong you are how tough you are how much pain can you handle the focusing turned towards college as you mentioned it was your dream to get to a college a scholarship where you could progress and excel even more in gymnastics and you got that sophomore year of high school when I committed to the University of Minnesota and this was during the time when I was wearing this turtle shell of a back brace but Minnesota saw something in me that no colleges were even looking for they kind of paid attention to my personality instead of just my athletic ability and they saw my passion and drive in the sport and the characteristics that make a good competitive gymnast and they just invested in it but because of your injuries they were unsure about having you on the gymnastics team right but you sat down at the office with them and you pleaded with them what did you say so I got all the way there and in try and picture this I had moved in I've moved all the way from Michigan to Minnesota unpacked in my apartment enrolled in classes got my books ready to go I get to the doctor's office to get started in gymnastics and they say no you can't do gymnastics here and I remember thinking I picked you guys because you believed in me what's going on and and they said your back is it's too big of a risk how did you even get in here and I remember saying just call Larry call Eric talk to him he's the one who got me here he'll explain it they called him and they talked to him and he was like she's gonna be okay you know what every time she comes home she can see me and I'll make sure that she stays healthy if she comes and sees me and I'll send you all of the treatments that we do all of the rehab exercises she's gonna be okay and so finally they cleared me he sent across to your new University all the treatments that he had been giving you except one except he left out the internal manipulation and the doc raised a red flag with you why didn't he tell them about this treatment that he's been giving me for years it was a big red flag at the time I mean they sent he sent over a packet a packet of all of the exercises we had been doing and it wasn't included and I remember thinking this is the treatment that has gotten me through all of my injuries why would you not pass it along but a light bulb went off in me that was just like he's at a different level of Education he's at a different level of mastery of being an athletic doctor he understands the sport more than these doctors do these doctors represent five sports he's just gymnastics he knows he knows more than they do tell me about the day you picked up the phone and you call Larry and you told him because you were suffering so much from the pain physically and mentally that you just couldn't go on I was sitting in my apartment and it was I had taken the day off of classes because I just couldn't physically get there and at the at that point I was just like what am i doing like I am having to change my daily routine because I'm in so much pain or because my legs are so numb and I remember calling Larry and being like Larry I it's it's bad it's worse I don't know what to do what do I do in him just saying he was so cold in in almost heartless he was just like okay then I guess we're done and I remember being like wait what and him just saying we always said that it was based on how strong you are and if you can't do it anymore then I guess we're done how did it feel now that he had kind of hung up the phone on you my whole world just crashed onto me I remember feeling num and and it's not the same numb as like my legs it was I could feel my heartbeat in my chest and it was beating fast but I couldn't feel the body around it I could feel myself crying but I wasn't like breathing heavy like you do when you when you really cry I was having a very severe panic attack my face went numb my cheeks went numb I was breathing heavy but I couldn't feel it was that the last time you spoke to him yes mm-hmm it was when did you first hear that other girls had made allegations against him shortly after that shortly after that they news articles started apparent popping up on my social media and I remember just kind of really scrolling past him like oh that's just that's not right that's it's Larry you know and it's I was still for him at that point even after what he had done and the way he had talked to me I was still on his side and it wasn't until somebody came out with a detailed description of the abuse and why it was considered abuse that I was like if that's abuse then I was abused a victim I'm a victim too when you read that article when someone in detail talked about what he had done to them did it match right up with your story with your experiences I was identical absolutely identical the way he introduced it the way he warned you the the verbage was identical and then what was going through your head then when we're just having delay at my lay in my bed and look at the ceiling for a long long long time few hours went by and I just had to stare at the ceiling and kind of accept that I was a victim it's a process that's not easy but it was basically somebody telling me and proving me you are you can't deny it anymore and it's one thing to start to slowly realize that maybe what was done to me was actually abuse but then it's another thing to open up and to have the courage to tell someone to me because of what you mentioned a while ago the embarrassment and be right was it your parents he told first or no my parents were actually one of the last people I told it's it's it's so hard telling people who have gone out of the way and just the extra mile to protect you and support you and encourage you to have to tell him that that happened I mean I couldn't I couldn't do it for the longest time honestly until the trial I didn't officially tell them that I was one of the victims how did they react when they are supportive as ever I mean they always always have had my back and have been there when I needed them and they the first thing they asked was what do you need us to do what can we do to help you start healing and during the trial it was I needed to make a closing statement to Larry and I didn't think I could do it myself but I knew I had things to say there were so many emotions in my head that I just had to get out so they weren't just overflowing and spewing out of my ears at that point and so I remember calling them and telling them I'm officially coming out as a survivor and I want to make a closing statement and the biggest fear I had was looking at his hands because they were his tools for manipulation they were his his his abuser was in his hands and so I couldn't I couldn't look at him and so they said okay we'll do it for you so they what's her statement do you remember some of this off the top of your head so the first ones the first draft started out very angry if you've listened if you listen to any other trial my statement was exactly the same as all the other girls it was this hatred toward Larry it was this disgust of how he could possibly do this to us and all of the ways that he has you know hurt us and how this is gonna affect us moving forward but I didn't get a sense of healing from those statements I almost was retry Mathai zhing myself I was reattached me to this abuse and I wasn't getting the closure I needed from those statements and so my final draft I incorporated my faith into it because faith was what was getting me through these days these days were impossible to live and so I kept praying and I remember being wire and I remember thinking why aren't I incorporating prayer in my statement because it's what's it's what's getting me through and so my opening line was a Bible verse about forgiveness and how important it was and then my statement was about how I understood that Larry was a human in that all humans are sinners and since they're all equal and I remember thinking God expects us to forgive sinners and he fir expects us to forgive others and the only person who can be the ultimate judge of this is him and so I remember thinking okay I need to forgive you I need to move on and you said in your victim impact statement Larry I forgive you that was right out in front of the main course yeah yeah you do you forgive him I do I forget we think he did too and and when you saw the scale of the case I mean how many girls that come for over 100 yeah it's not my position to forgive him for what he did to others I control my forgiveness for what he did to me and that's what I forgive I forgive him for using me I don't forgive him for using anybody else because that's not my right to judge but I need to move on from what he did to me and so the first step in doing that is letting him know that I forgive him was that hurt it's almost as hard as accepting your victim is realizing I need to let this go for something like this for so much that was taken from you for the irreversible damage that was done to your physical health when you should have been in the hospital for what he took from your gymnastics career that you had to end then a few years ago I mean because of your faith you were able to forgive him right right I think it kind of gives you this strength that you don't even know you have is is turning to your faith and I remember just thinking in my head this is so much bigger than just me this is so I can't punish him a way that somebody else can a way that my God can and so I can't hold this above him because there's nothing I can do that compares to what my god can do when you saw him on TV or column says during the trial sitting in the courtroom what did you think looking at this man you once admired were involved it was honestly pitiful seeing him and I remember him barely make eye contact with the people that were coming forward and getting their closure with him he would look down his hands he would have this Giroux P look on his face and I remember just thinking this is sad this is sad the man I once idolized it looks pitiful and he was sentenced to 200 years 175 yeah about 205 years in prison yeah for other victims who might be watching this now not just a Larry but rape abuse victims around the world who maybe don't have the immense courage that you have what would you say to them first of all I think it's important to know that you're not alone victims out there need to know that their experience is unique to them but they are not alone fighting this battle they are not the only ones going through this feeling that there is a community of people ready and willing to support inspire and empower them to get to their level of healing - I think it's important to get your story out of your head because the first thing we do is blame ourselves the first thing we say is how'd this happen to me like what did I do to deserve this and it was the first question I asked - why me I'm this strong person people always told me I was one of the strongest people they knew how did I get used and victims need to stop doing that because it's never our fault there's never addressed too short or too skimpy for somebody to have a right to your body there's never an amount of alcohol that gives somebody a right to your body and there's never a level of power and authority that gives somebody a right to your body and it's never your fault and you need to know that and accept that moving forward that you don't deserve this but you deserve to heal let's fast forward to today yes you have undergone major spinal surgery how was your health at the moment I can feel my legs which is just great thing that was a new thing just a few years ago um the pain is a lot better I can go for walks with my dogs and I'll be able to walk down the aisle and it's with no pain and it's just you mentioned walk down the aisle it's on my mind it's on your mind you chose the ring ah yeah just behind me here if you don't say Jake is looking behind me on the camera watching over everything so life has really turned around for you good how are you feeling in yourself it takes a village it takes a village to get through the days it's to say that it's easy every single day and I'm perfect would also not be the truth it takes a lot of support and encouragement from amazing fiance's and family and everybody telling me it's gonna be okay and you're so much stronger than this how do you think it has changed you inside as a person everything you've gone through and I don't just mean the abuse but there were cover II that's still ongoing today it's a different type of strength that I have now it's not that I'm pushing through pain it's not that I have to be tough to continue going or to have people still have expectations for me it's I'm strong in who I am and who I've become and also who I have to be to get through the day I am strong because I can push past my fears and my paranoia is and I can live a normal life finally do you miss the gymnastic very very much very much it's once you're a gymnast you're always a gymnast it's always a part of you and what have you replaced it with coaching it where are you doing that I'm just a few blocks away and even prayer in Apple Valley is where I'm coaching now and I absolutely love it well Rachel your courage to talk about your story and to come forward and tell the world and your ability to forgive as well as so many other things about you are so admirable and I want to say thank you so much for your time thank you thank you I loved it

Channel: Colm Flynn

Views: 4,142

Rating: 4.8490567 out of 5

Keywords: larry, nassar, rachel, haines, gymnast, sexual, assault, scandal, national, courage

Id: mxuAA0XOMnw

Length: 28min 17sec (1697 seconds)

Published: Sat May 18 2019