"Unprecedented in the History of American Republicanism": Historian on Trump Verdict & GOP Extremism

this news is funded by viewers like you please support our work at democracynow.org this is democracy Now democracynow.org The War and Peace report I'm Amy Goodman former president Donald Trump will be sentenced July 11th four days before the Republican National Convention in Milwaukee after a New York jury found him guilty Thursday on all 34 counts of falsifying business records to cover up payments made to Stormy Daniels in order to protect his 2016 presidential campaign Trump's vow to appeal also faces three more criminal cases for more we're joined by Professor Manisha Sinha historian of us politics slavery abolition Legacy of Civil War and reconstruction professor at the University of Connecticut and author of several books including the rise and fall of the second American Republic reconstruction 1860 to 1920 Professor you last joined us on the day after the January 6th Insurrection welcome back back to democracy Now first respond to this historic moment in US history not just us Politics the first former president to become a felon thank you for having me Amy yes it is extremely unprecedented because we have never had a case in United States history when a former president has been not only impeached twice but also is now a convicted valad of course there have been instances of corruption amongst presidents and vice presidents but mostly uh they have resigned before they could be con convicted uh and they have been pardoned uh what's unusual about Trump's case is that uh the extent of the criminality the various cases against him and now this uh unanimous jury decision convicting him uh for falsifying business records but also most importantly for trying to corrupt the 2016 um elections uh all this is unprecedented in the history of American republicanism as so much that concerns Trump uh he wears this as a badge of honor um he seems unrepentant uh even in the face of um all these convictions so yes uh I think we are in fact at a Crossroads in the history of American republicanism uh and a man like Trump uh could very much upend this over 200e historical experiment in representative government so it's not clear what will happen July 11th except that he will be sentenced uh by judge Maran he could sentence him to up to four years in prison it's highly unlikely he would do that he could sentence him to house arrest he could be out on um uh probation uh but if you can talk about this political significance of right before the Republican convention what this means you have a president now a presidential candidate um who uh has represents a lot of Firsts in US history the first former president to be indicted criminally tried convicted impeached twice talk about his legacy and what this means as the Republican front runner yes I think one of the most dangerous things about Trump is that he's not a one-man show he is the presumptive nominee of a political party in a two-party system that in itself poses an immense danger I think to American democracy um he's also now a convicted felon as you mentioned uh it's a Class E felony he may not go to prison but he's in the same category as those people who do carjackings or those who are accused of aggravated domestic assault now this is a category of criminality that he is a part of and I cannot help but think that any right-thinking American citizen um even a moderate Republican would have to think about that um I don't think that this uh conviction uh as many have argued um will actually increase his support uh those uh minority uh that supported him will always support him uh because the have been so many acts of criminality and wrongdoing uh uh that has preceded this um I do think though that this will make an enormous difference uh to um moderates Independents uh will make them think twice do they want to actually vote for a felon uh especially a party that pretends to stand for Law and Order so we spoke to you the day after the January 6 Insurrection in 2021 Professor Sinha in fact you were among the historians including one of the biggest briefs in Trump versus Colorado uh your work was also quoted can you talk about this case in the context of your new book which focuses on the Reconstruction Era and when the 14th amendment was ratified and explain it all yes you know I as a historian really do feel that our present is shaped by the past uh we are not exactly repeating history but we live with those legacies uh and in my book when I look at this period reconstruction that immediately followed the Civil War I talk a lot about how ex-confederates insurrectionists um got away with literally with murder right uh they launch a program of domestic terrorism they have committed treason against the government of the United States uh and very soon uh because of an amnesty law they're back in power they may have lost the war but they win the peace and that represents what I call a nater in American democracy I don't think many American citizens may be even aware that we have lost our democracy for decades certainly in the South where it was open season on freed people and you had a regime of racial Terror segregation um and disfranchisement for black men and later on black women um and I don't think we can today go down a path where we similarly have a completely emasculated democracy um we live with the legacies of that period as I mentioned to you the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution which is a Reconstruction Era amendment is a sleeping giant it does prevent someone who has participated in or aided and eded an Insurrection from ever running for federal office uh someone who has sworn an oath to uphold the US Constitution and the only way that person can do that is to be pardoned by uh Congress by a 2third vote now it was very disappointing to me that the Supreme Court in the Trump versus Colorado case decided including the liberal judges that Trump in fact is not liable under section three of the 14th Amendment uh in fact he is it's a very clear disqualification now Congress could take away the disqualification for him um the idea that this would create a patchwork system where different states would then uh take Biden off the ballot actually does not work because Biden has not LED an Insurrection against the government of the United States or proven false to his oath of office um this would be actually a national disqualification even though the case stemm from Colorado so our Supreme Court did not have the I think the moral courage or judicial uh courage to do this uh they thought only expediently about the political Fallout from their decision instead uh 12 ordinary American citizens defended our democracy um and this is exactly what Abraham Lincoln said on the eve of the Civil War that the fate of our democracy actually lies in the hands not of the Rich and Powerful but in the hands of ordinary American citizens and if you looked at the juras a lot of them didn't seem to me particularly anti-trump in fact I thought maybe there's going to be hung jury even though the prosecution had an airtight case um so for this decision to come down sort of renews my faith in democracy that if Ordinary People ordinary citizens get the chance to really deliberate on trumps many crimes and misdemeanors uh then perhaps we will get a right decision I wanted to end by asking you about a related story in the Supreme Court of course president Trump appointed three of the the nine Supreme Court Justices and I wanted to ask you about this latest controversy around Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito uh who told Congress he will not refuse recuse himself from cases involving Donald Trump in the January 6 Capital Insurrection after photos emerged um of two flags associated with election deniers flying in front of alito's homes in Virginia and New Jersey uh he said his wife did it one of those upside down American flag so there are many who are demanding that he uh recuse himself from these cases he says no your response Professor Sinha yes you know the Supreme Court in US history has not distinguished itself as a defender of democracy think of Dread Scott think of py versus Ferguson the Warren Court during the Civil Rights era emerges as an exception we've had partisan judges before but we have not had corrupt uh judges we have not had judges sympathetic to Insurrection against the government of the United States whether it was Alito or his wife whether it is Thomas or his wife these two judges are clearly involved in uh planned Insurrection against the government of the United States or at least are displaying their sympathy for it very openly by flying an upside down American flag which is a sign of disrespect um and the appeal to the heaven flag um the idea of Simply you know appeal to Heaven's flag is that pine tree flag exactly uh the passing the buck on to his wife seems really ironic for somebody like Alito who has taken away a women's fundamental right to decide for themselves how and what they do with their bodies he has taken away reproductive freedom from majority of women and now he tells us that he bowed to the decision of his wife uh to display flags that were sympathetic to the January 6 insurrectionist you mentioned that you had interviewed me immediately the day after and even though I'm a historian who has studied American history and knows that there have been instances of grave danger to democracy in US history I was shocked and you could see the shock in my face to have a Justice at the Supreme Court who is supposed to uphold the highest laws of the country uh be uh active participant in this sort of behavior is just astounding and the shamelessness of it is similarly astounding that he would uh after being uh sort of outed uh by uh the press that he would refuse to recuse himself frankly I think both Thomas and Alito are completely compromised besides being very corrupt um they should uh either resign or at the very least recuse themselves and I think it's about time for the Democrats to take a more aggressive position on this uh at this point we are not talking about uh some slight uh convention that has been upturned this is a real threat to American Rights and Freedom uh and we need to uh you know Biden likes to compare himself to FDR well then think about packing the court think about judicial reform we need to act against this we cannot just let Alito decide for himself because he's clearly incapable of making the right decision manici inhan we want to thank you for being with us historian of us politics slavery abolition the legacy of the Civil War and reconstruction professor at the University of Connecticut democracy Now is funded by viewers like you please give today at democracynow.org SLG

Channel: Democracy Now!

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Length: 12min 55sec (775 seconds)

Published: Fri May 31 2024