Unlocking Spiritual Illumination: The Hidden Wisdom Of The Rosicrucians | Dr. Robert Gilbert

as human consciousness evolves the form that spiritual Traditions take will evolve with it the evolution of human consciousness we went from a early state where human beings were effortlessly Clairvoyant over time this ancient form of Clairvoyance began to die out we're in a sleeping Trans State all the time and that's one reason why there's so much destructive activity in the world so the goal is to be conscious all the time through the self-remembering process there are certain things we have to be very cautious of doesn't matter if if you're a musician or you're an artist or you're an architect or whatever there's always the ego inflation challenge that will come in but on the spiritual path it's particularly deadly this is very much a time of being able to break the old patterns and regain some of our old skills at a higher level we really do have the opportunity Now to create a new golden age if you choose the skillful way rather than the unskillful way you can get there more quickly you can suffer less and you can help other people to suffer less it's never too late to wake up and start now wherever you are on the [Music] path hey everyone welcome back to the no they self podcast I am so looking forward to this podcast one of my favorite things is when I get to do a two three plus hour Deep dive into some sort of philosophy or new area of life and understanding that I've recently found very fascinating and revealing and Awakening from my own personal p today we're going to be diving um in deep today with somebody who's a leading scholar in Rosa crism gnosticism sacred geometry um the process of self-awakening and so much more so Dr Robert Gilbert thanks for being here wonderful thank you so much for having me yeah the Roser crucian saying in the beginning was the memory yes is where I want to start today what does that mean that's a great place to start so there are many different maxims or uh sayings in the rosac crucian tradition that provide some of the core principles and when you unpack them they really are related to certain types of practices or stages of an alchemical Journey so when the rosac crucians say that in the beginning was the memory what they mean is that in every Incarnation we have to take what's known as the draft of forgetfulness the draft of forgetfulness is where we incarnate and we don't have a clear memory of our previous lifetimes now this can be overcome through certain types of structuring of the subtle bodies that we can do over time and they will create literal structures in the subtle bodies that allow us to remember more about past incarnations but definitely in the beginning we have this draft of forgetfulness where we forget who am I why am I here and what is the purpose for the current Lifetime and and so the in the beginning was the memory is simply the indication that at the beginning of every Incarnation we have to go through this reclaiming of our memory and once again knowing who we are and why we're here in this particular lifetime it's somewhat like the ancient myth of Anana where she dives into the underworld and gets all of her things stripped away from her at seven different levels until she's naked and hung up on a meat hook in the Underworld then has to take herself off that and then Ascend back up and regain everything at a higher octave as she comes back to her full power and so this is something very significant for every spiritual Seeker that particular process of remembering who am I and why am I here I'm really looking forward to unraveling that a little bit more for people that are new to ro to the word rosicrucian to uh mystical Christianity rud Steiner uh can you lay a little bit of the framework and you know Foundation of what that is and where a lot of what we're going to be exploring today is kind of originating from great yes so I'll just say upfront that my perspective on this may be a bit different than that you'll find from other people that teach things regarded to the uh rosar crucian tradition but the first thing I want to bring out about it is that from my perspective the rosac crucian tradition is simply the latest appearance of a particular particular perennial tradition that's been around for thousands of years and it has some very clear Roots connected to ancient Egypt into the Jewish and Greek cabala into what became the Holy Grail tradition in Europe around the 9th century and then really broke the surface in its current form as the rosac crucian spiritual tradition in around the uh early 1600s in central Cal Europe and so as human consciousness evolves the form that spiritual Traditions take will evolve with it and so the way that someone may be trained or educated in the rosac crucian tradition is something that makes sense for our current culture that we grow up in because if we were trained in the way that we were thousands of years ago in Egypt that wouldn't necessarily make sense for people the cultural context was very different even the structure of our Consciousness was very different then and so the rosar crucian tradition again is the evolution of this deep spiritual science from that time through multiple cultural ages and Consciousness States and when it broke the surface with the publication of some important documents uh in Central Europe in the early 1600s it was really informing the public that there was a type of we Western spiritual initiation lineage of which there were people who were highly Advanced and developed in it the so-called rosac crucian Masters and there was a kind of invisible rosac crucian College which U was the joining together of these initiates and so as the information about the existence of Rosicrucianism developed one thing we need to be very clear about is that in the beginning it was not any type of external physical organization that you could join and become a member of or that was a physical location what it was is a number of initiates who had incarnated and had regained their knowledge in the beginning was the memory of who they are why they're here and had for many lifetimes been a part of this particular lineage as again it evolved into this new state into this new tradition and so one very useful way of understanding this and this is something that uh I found put into very clear form by one of my teachers Dr Samuel seagon at the Clair Vision School of Australia uh when I lived and worked at that school in the 1990s he said you have to be very clear that every spiritual tradition is a particular group of non-physical Spiritual Beings who are the ones that stand behind that tradition and whatever the purpose of that tradition is along with a certain set of human initiates that incarnate at a particular moment in time then they go out of incarnation they come back at another time and so the rosac crucian tradition is the same it's a particular group of Spiritual Beings working with human initiates to bring forward what we might say is the Hermetic tradition uh into a current form that people who are educated in the European North American sort of way can really understand and apply in their own lives so there is as we move into the rosac crucian tradition the understanding that every tradition being a group of spiritual and human beings working together for a common cause they often will focus on particular purposes or strengths that is really the reason why you have this tradition versus that tradition one idea behind this is that originally there was something known to the rosac crucians as the original nosis or the original mikelic knowledge so connected to the highest of the archangels Archangel Mikael understood in the rosac crucian tradition to not be a metaphor but a very real living spiritual being that we can contact and have a connection with that in that original nosis there was all of the spiritual knowledge related to humanity and Humanity's evolution in a complete form then many ages ago on the earth that knowledge broke up and in a sense poetically it could be said to have fallen from the Heavens to different parts of the earth so the hamalian tradition got a particular part of it the Chinese tradition got a part of it the Greek tradition got a part of it South American tradition Etc different parts of the World received parts of that nosis and so they became guardians of particular aspects of spiritual knowledge and spiritual practices with the understanding that the spiritual practices will structure the subtle bodies of the people who do those practices in a way that helps to attain the goals of whatever that tradition is and it is also very possible I want to be clear that for every human being we may incarnate into more than one Tradition at different times so many people that I've encountered who have a very strong connection to the rosac crucian tradition do have lifetimes where they incarnated and were initiated in Chinese dosm or in the hamalian systems Casmir shavis all types of things like this so it's not completely just one thing but we do tend to have a primary link to traditions and to the Spiritual Beings of that tradition so for the rosar crucians understanding it in that larger context the rosac crucians really specialize in attaining the most clear concise true understanding of non-physical realities and the sources of all physical existence in the spiritual world and really creating a new spiritual science I would say that's one of the the real cores of the rosar crucian tradition but even then we have to be very careful about overly simplifying or rigidifying what's a very Dynamic spiritual reality because even in Rosicrucianism there are branches that are related to the three functional centers of the human being so we have what in the Chinese DS tradition might be referred to as the three Elixir fields in the body the three dantean the upper danten uh which is related to our Consciousness and is referred to as the thinking pole in the rosac crucian tradition the middle Donan the middle Elixir field which contains the heart and the lungs and is connected to our feeling uh in the sense of the emotional body and then we have the lower dantean the lower abdominal forces related to Life Energy and our will forces and the actions we take in the world so if you look at something like the work of Rudolph Steiner arguably the most advanced rosac crucian ever to make himself known to the public and to have created a body of knowledge and work that got disseminated to the public because there're over 350 volumes of Rudolph Steiner's work most of them are collected lectures some of them are books that he wrote but Steiner was essentially in the branch of Rosicrucianism related to the what the Chinese would call the Ard Donan or the thinking pole it's all about having a clear understanding of spiritual science then for the feeling aspect related to the heart and the lungs there's another Branch uh of Rosicrucianism that is related to things that we associate today with the Holy Grail tradition not in the sense of a lot of the modern materialistic work on the Holy Grail which tries to focus on physical Bloodlines that was not the original intent of the Holy Grail tradition what it was is to become a vessel a rail to receive the solar logos the powers of the sun into us and this does have relationships to pre-christian times with the ability to bring the forces of the sun into us and a larger Alchemy related to Sun and Moon Alchemy in the body which you find in many Traditions around the world this is like for the Chinese it be the the Primeval Yang and the Primeval Yin coming together but sun and moon Alchemy so this middle aspect here has to do with the development of the heart as a spiritual organ of perception and also a development of human morality not in a some type of rigid or dogmatic sense but in the sense of understanding our core connection to every other living being and how that naturally leads to an ethical way of life to benefit others through our actions it can also lead to extremely high forms of spiritual in initiation and some very high initiates are connected to it then the lower abdominal forces with the will forces the ability to take action to transform the Earth gives rise to things like biodynamic Agriculture and literally transforming the Earth itself through our willpower and working with it so that's just a little introduction then to the rosac crucian tradition how it fits into the world system of traditions and some of the aspects incredible so we live in a society right now that is in many ways very overly identified with the rational mind and Einstein has that quote I believe that our the intuitive mind is a sacred gift the rational mind is a faithful servant we have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift yes and you're speaking to how we are very much so especially with the roshik crusan understanding but also Al ties back to many of these different lineages and ancient wisdom Traditions that we are constantly walking living in a sea of nonvisible forces and we have uh shut down our perception and our intuitive capacities to pay attention to these more subtle Realms within us and around us and so I would just love for you to share a little bit more about um you know as we start to go on this process and I want to go into the structuring of the subtle body and the 12 pedal Lotus and all of these things um but just speak to how we very much so become disconnected from these more subtle Realms so the understanding and the rosar crucian tradition and you find aspects of this in other Traditions as well is that in the evolution of human consciousness we went from a early state where human beings were effortlessly Clairvoyant and this had to do with the activation of particular energy centers in the body uh certainly the third eye center is very important animportant there but there are other where we think of as chakras today that are related to the process of Clairvoyance in different ways and other energy centers that are not as well known to the public such as the middle brow Center and the upper brow Center which is around the hairline which is what's known as the Unicorn Center to the Filipino um spiritual healers so again knowledge distributed in different places but we had a type of innate clairvoyance where everyone could immediately perceive non-physical beings so you study the oldest spiritual text and everyone is just perceiving these Spiritual Beings all the time now this was something that allowed human beings to be guided by Spiritual Beings and forces but human beings had not fully developed the ability of what we think of today as logical linear thinking that becomes completely independent and is linked to every human being becoming a independent actor in the world rather there's more of a group Consciousness so in the ancient world one of the worst punishments you could have would be to be thrown out from your tribe or later from your city state or something of that kind that was the worst punishment imaginable today people would love just to be punished by being thrown out of their city or their state or whatever it might be that would seem like a very little punishment to us but for them to be separated from their group was a terrible experience it just the State of Consciousness at the time and so over time human consciousness developed so that we became more involved with the brain thinking The Logical linear thinking taking this larger energy field around the head and its connection to the Calum of energy above our head and the multiple energy centers above the head again not well understood to today but particularly in the hamalian tradition and in especially things like nepes Tonka paintings you'll see very clear depictions of the centers above the head their sacred geometric form and non-physical beings connecting to them usually through things like blue- skinned women writing on clouds or something and they're connecting to these centers so this ancient form of Clairvoyance began to die out as human beings developed the ability to think with the brain in an individual independent way and we develop the capacity to have logical linear what we think of today uh more materialistic scientific thought and that gave us a certain type of control over the physical world that we didn't have before but it cut us off not only from perceiving non-physical beings but even being able to work dynamically with the pure energy and life forces in our own body and in in the world around us some very advanced modern initiates like um sanus a tesas from Cyprus a modern Greek Christian hermetic Master he described the way that in his old Egyptian Incarnation he could do incredible things with nature forces you know part the waters and create storms and all kinds of things was just natural at that time because of the connection to the the life forces the what we might refer to from the rosac crucian tradition as the aetheric forces of dynamic Life Energy which we would call Prana in India or Chi and China Etc uh he said that back in those days incredible things could be done with the nature forces can still be done by certain initiates but today because of the condensation of our energy field and moving into this type of logical linear thought a lot of that connection to and control over our own energy centers and body has been greatly reduced and for the vast majority of humanity they have no consciousness of it only people going into certain Traditions to study and learn practices begin to reclaim those abilities and also to work with the dynamic energetic forces around us in a way that in the ancient world the initiates did fairly automatically so one way this is described in the rosar crucian tradition is that this process of moving into the brain is what became mirrored in the mythology of the labyrinth and the miniture in The Labyrinth we're entering into the Labyrinth of the brain and into this logical linear thought I believe this is also connected to why you find for example the Jewish tradition had this prohibition against graven images and against visual representations because the old form of Consciousness was extremely visual it was based on a type of Clairvoyant pictoral representation of non-physical beings and the true perception of non-physical beings of course is never as you know a blue woman floating on a cloud in the East or of a young blond muscular man wearing a suit of armor and a cape in Europe those are things that as we become more materialized it's the form we put it into it's we cast on it in its primeval form it's much more the reality of these beings which is more in terms of moving light color energy sound tone for non-physical beings that's more their true nature than anything that's like a physical person in front of you they could take that form or represent themselves in that form or we could clothe them in our own mind with that form as a way to understand them but again these images became more materialized over time and the majority of humanity lost lost the capacity to directly perceive non-physical worlds and even their own life energy so part of what's Happening Now is that we've become so materialistic and our logical linear thinking has become so Advanced that the natural movement now in The evolutionary process we could see it in a sense as a type of descent from a higher state of perceiving non-physical planes non physical worlds beings and then descending downward into the material plane so now very material beings people associate themselves very much with the current Incarnation and whatever their qualities are in that particular Incarnation and that's reached this point where now it's starting to pull up again now this is understood in the rosar crucian tradition as a particular cycle of time and that they refer to in the Eastern terms of the end of Cali Yuga now according to some Eastern Traditions we're not at the end of caluga yet it's a tremendously long period of time but in other Eastern traditions and in the rosar crucian tradition there's an aspect of caluga that's considered to have ended in 1899 so that's what you find for example in the Babaji lineage from the halalas where that teaching went to Shri yasar who in his book the holy science gives the date 1899 for the end of caluga period so this opening up from the Dark Age to this new age of light is accompanied with many many challenges when you make these Transitions and we're still very much very deep in materialism this process is just beginning but it is leading to things that you can see mirrored in the world around us today such as until a little over 100 years ago there really weren't forums for free independent Spiritual Development and sharing amongst people until the theosophical society developed in America in the late 1800s there really wasn't an organization that had branches all over the world that allowed you just to share spiritually with other people from the perspective of many Traditions rather than just being a part of one tradition in the past you most people would join one tradition for their entire lifetime and they would go very deep in that tradition and be initiated in it but they wouldn't necessarily have the knowledge of many different Traditions when people did acquire knowledge of many different Traditions they were often known to history and seen as remarkable people so only around this time of the end of the Cali Yuga as seen by the rosicrucians and certain lineages uh do we really have this growth of what people think of today as the modern metaphysical movement or the modern New Age movement so this is something that we have seen in the last 100 years people choosing an independent path of Spiritual Development rather than some times joining one particular group and learning only from one teacher from one perspective people are learning really in the Hermetic way of from many different perspectives many different teachers and finding their own path that way and so a natural part of this is what the rosac crucians refer to as developing the new aetheric Clairvoyance the new aetheric Clairvoyance is that as we begin to develop once again Clairvoyant faculties that are not just fantasy or own mental projections but something real then one of the first things we become aware of are the etheric life forces in the human body and so we become aware of the energy centers the energy flows being able to work with this part of the process of losing the old Clairvoyance is that in ancient times the human etheric body was much further outside of the physical body than it is today it began to contract into the physical body and particularly around the head it began to contract into the brain that allowed us to use the brain much more effectively as a logical linear scientific instrument but where we're coming to now is that having contracted so far there's beginning to be expansions of the energy field and people naturally seeking out different systems whether it's yoga or Chinese internal Alchemy or any other system around the world that we can start becoming conscious of and working with the energy in the body and the energy flows in a highly productive way and again we can Now understand that if this growth of independent spiritual initiation and spiritual seeking and of more and more people going to yoga and other types of practices to understand the relationship between the physical and the energetic body and open up the energetic body now this is also connected to the tremendous what sometimes referred to today is the Psychedelic Renaissance because one of the effect of psychedelic substances used in the ancient world now coming back today is that when you take them you have the capacity to start getting certain forms of Clairvoyance by taking sufficient dosages of some of these plant medicines now many of these are in a sense a poison and so as with all toxicology the dose makes the poison and if you did too much of it it could have certain effects that may not be beneficial but at a certain level one reason why it gives you this perception of not physical world activates these brain circuits is that it's having the effect of expanding the energy body outside of the physical body so people often find if they like did a lot of LSD they're starting to perceive all kinds of non-physical things and trying to make sense of it the issue is if they haven't properly purified or structured their subtle body before they do it they're expanding a structure that may not be completely balanced or properly structured and so there's a certain amount of fantasmagorico perception that happens with the expansion because the energy centers weren't essentially cleared and activated beforehand so that this expansion expanded them in a completely balanced way but nonetheless this process is ongoing with the Psychedelic Renaissance with these types of what's considered to be hallucinogenic but in its true form is actually Clairvoyance inducing it will become hallucinogenic if the energy centers aren't properly purified and activated first because then you're simply expanding a structure that's off balance but again this is expanding the energy body outside of the physical body and that's also why after someone does that experience they have this tremendous opening and all these powerful experiences that they often feel very tired a couple of days afterwards because then there's like a shock retraction of the etheric body back into the physical body so all these are aspects of people becoming aware of the energy body and the things we're seeing in society today related to it I think that provides a lot of incredible context for the expanded awareness that a lot of people are experiencing right now on their own spiritual paths and yet if you like you spoke to if there's not the proper integration and structuring of the subtle body you're potentially opening up yourself to forces that will keep you really out of balance and so there can be great danger with it and I you know I've heard you share many times also how we live in a time now where we have access to so much information and wisdom and uh wisdom traditions and like so much knowledge which is an Incredible Gift and at the same time we can take it for granted and uh what used to in many Traditions take years decades or lifetimes to be able to get access to certain information we can just see on you know on our phone you know which is which is great right but then also like if we're not doing that work of integration to actually be able to embody that change then it becomes something that can almost be detrimental right this is the the thing that I often refer to about the blessing and the curse we have today that in our previous lifetimes uh particularly for the last many thousand years we've had the the challenge that it was very hard to acquire deep initiatory knowledge you'd have to join one group and go over many many years years of deepening what they taught you to like reach the deeper Mysteries today many of these things that were very very hidden until extremely recently uh you can find in a book that you can buy for $20 um but they were like massive spiritual Secrets before but the problem is that the trivialization of modern culture and the trivialization of particularly spiritual science has led to a lot of fragments of information sometimes true but but unconnected to the larger context that it came from or sometimes slightly warped and twisted uh this is something where the real challenge today is the challenge of discernment and of the ability to reunite the fragments back into a coherent whole and that's really been something that I've really devoted most of my life to is finding those often very amazing fragments from all types of different traditions and bodies of knowledge and find the way to put them back into a clear coherent hole in a concise format where people can access it fairly quickly and having to spend years trying to find the pieces and put it together and also in a format where you don't have to join any organization you don't have to give your power away to anybody else you're finding the pieces of the knowledge and practices that you need to craft your own particular path forward so that's something that I've really dedicated the vesa Institute to so again the challenge there is to be able to discern between what's true what's not true what's partly true uh but has to be corrected and in every case put it into the larger context of the complete system so that's very much what we're dealing with today many people know a lot of fragments but whether it's coming together into a coherent system that's actually going to structure their subtle bodies for real growth that Will Survive The Passage through the gate of death and into the next Incarnation is the thing we have to be very careful about now yeah it's so easy to take spiritual knowledge to inflate the ego versus actually uh honoring it with reverence working with it in your own spiritual life in practice embodying it and allow the life that you live to be the example for um you knowing what you know right because you don't know until it's in the body anyways yes I want to dive a little bit deeper into one of those understandings which is the structuring of the subtle body because as we live these lives in this physical form we can get very disconnected very distracted into accumulating things in the physical into materialism and we lose sight of one of the greatest possibilities and gifts and potential in this life to uh truly cultivate something that will carry with us after this physical form Fades away and um and so I just want you to speak into how important the structuring of the subtle body is what that is and the importance of of really cultivating that because it's what we take with us as we leave yes thank you so we have the understanding in multiple Traditions that there are different planes of existence so these are often referred to as the spiritual planes or sometimes as the planes of nature there are slightly different systems in different parts of the world uh the most common system we find in the west today is the one popularized by the theosophical society starting in the late 1800s so you have the physical plane uh where we have the physical materialization of concrete physical matter above that you have the aetheric Life Energy chii Prana and this is the dynamic life force that actually creates the pattern for everything that will physically crystallize so it has a sacred geometric type of structure to it and sometimes referred to by the Ros cusions as the etheric formative forces that are going to literally form the shape and the function of everything that physically crystallizes is this something for example sorry to sidebar but just like simatics for example will reveal the sacred geometric structures on a 2d plane exactly so when you put those particular sound frequencies into the paste or the powder or the water you can then immediately see that by changing the sound frequencies you're changing the geometric structure structure of the substance and that's very much the way that this works it's really a revelation of aetheric formative forces structuring physical matter then above the aetheric life plane and any one of these levels you could talk about for hours because they're all full of of their own uh intense Powers uh the next level above that is sometimes that's referred to as the astral in the western world and when they use the term the astral sometimes it means the next level as the body which this how it appears within the human being as the emotional body but then it is from a higher source or the astral plane the first true spiritual plane that we encounter and sometimes the term astral is used to indicate both the emotional and the mental planes it just depends on the group using it so we have then our emotional function our mental function which comes from higher plane levels at that point we're going going from the vibration density pressure tingling hot and cold types of sensations of the etheric body to perceiving light and color and as we move to the emotional and the mental levels we then move to the causal level causal level has sacred geometric blueprints of how everything will take form at the later levels it's the type of essence uh that will create everything in the world uh and the causal level also is where the actions that incarnate beings take will then create patterns blueprints for cause and effect for what these beings will encounter in the sense of karma then level above that is the spiritual plane and above that is the Divine plane so to really understand those planes we need to know that the Divine plane has no separation the Divine plane everything is one that's the core highest teaching of every tradition is connecting back to the one where there's no separation between beings at all now this is something that we can perceive through the process of individuation because as we go below the Divine plane things begin to separate individuate start by splitting into Yin and yangang polarities and then they go into multiplicity and then form everything on the lower planes but we will sometimes perceive for example that you may in your Clairvoyant meditative work perceive a large spiritual being that appears to be one being and then you'll see multiple beings coming out of that being and they had combined into one great being because that is the capacity at a non-physical level for beings to unite back into the one but also to separate back into individual Spiritual Beings and so that's related to what's happening at the Divine plane when the way this tends to work for human beings is we experience that merging during types of tantric practices with an intimate partner where we're embracing the partner and the energy bodies merge to the point that we can't tell where we end and they begin and so the two become one we connect back to the Divine plane that opens up these highest yoga tantras and very high realization States often in dual cultivation with a partner so as we move from the unified State everything is one at the Divine plane the next level down the spiritual plane is where all of these different powers States functions of the Divine that are inherent within the one then separate out and they become personified in specific Spiritual Beings now this is something that even a lot of people in metaphysical circles today only have an intellectual understanding of the way that the powers of the Divine first form into conscious Spiritual Beings of a very great stature is fundamental to all the ancient traditions of the world if you're going to understand something like Shiva and Shakti that's one of the initial separations from the Divine godhead into masculine feminine pays in an embodied form as a real spiritual being not an abstraction and of course it is the same thing as in the Chinese tradition with the yin and yangong polarities but again it always starts as something that is personified in conscious Spiritual Beings of a very high level and then it moves down to the lower Plains to manifest everything until we get the manifestation of the microcosmic beings like human beings on the physical plane but we have within us the fractal of all the seven planes inside of us that's connected to certain energy centers and certain structures of the subtle body so that's the first thing we have to understand that the human being as ancient text say is the microcosm of the macrocosm and in some texts they say that we're the crown of creation and the reason for that is that we are becoming conscious beings and that we have all the different planes inside of us as our subtle bodies so all the subtle bodies of the human being are nothing other than detachments from the substance of these higher planes that we we' individualized into our own subtle bodies in this lifetime so that's the prerequisite for understanding the structuring of the subtle bodies once we've been given that gift of these subtle bodies from the higher plain substances then everything we do with our mind our Consciousness our thinking everything we do with our life of feeling everything that we do with our life of action and will with these three centers are all causes set in MO motion they all have a vibrational quality they all will activate in the fractal structure of the energy points chakras meridians of the human energy body all of which are reflections of higher things they will start to activate certain parts of our energetic structure and it will sedate other aspects of it it will start to link up certain functional centers in the energy body with other functional centers then creating two-dimensional shapes or three-dimensional forms and essentially creating a sacred geometric patterning inside the subtle body and so the structuring of the subtle body is really one of the most important Concepts that we can have it is really that pearl of great price of what we go through in every Incarnation that is what we take with us we don't take all the material stuff with us but you will take how you structure the subtle bodies so if we act simply on a beastial level of the reactive mind and we don't try to attain any type of higher state of consciousness or understanding or loving kindness action to other people then what these what the Tibetans would call unskillful states that we're constantly generating with our detrimental thoughts and emotions and will impulses and actions in the world not only has an effect at the causal plane level of how it affects our Karma but it also will activate parts of our energy structure that will be off Balan and will be somewhat toxic and uh Works to sedate the more beneficial potential that we hold within the energy body if on the other hand we're working toward loving kindness and a higher enlightened Consciousness constantly being expanded forward things of this kind then we're activating the energy centers and linking them together into functional sets that again have a sacred geometric template to them and that will be what we take through the gate of death so this is absolutely vital knowledge for everyone that everything that you do every thought that you generate every emotion you generate every action you take is a cause set in motion and is structuring your subtle body through repetition you're entraining your subtle body to rep particular form now one of the ways that psychedelic Renaissance the psychedelics can be used is they can be work for used for deconstruction purposes they take us temporarily out of the emerging in our own hypnotic trance of these lower States and we say oh why am I acting like that I don't have to have a life like that I could be something different and we can start consciously moving it forward this doesn't always happen but certainly the potential within the EXP experience and happens for many people uh so that's some of the core of structuring of the subtle bodies then within initiatory practices you have particular methods to activate specific energy centers or particular linkages between energy centers sometimes within particular geometric structures so that's why for example in my guia TV series I talked about the pattern of what is called in the Jewish cabala the Tree of Life life and in dascal Lo's work from Greece is referred to as the symbol of life from its earlier Egyptian roots and I refer to as the gold pattern for the geometry of Life design and this has 10 centers that are linked together into this type of tree pattern that in the ancient world particularly in Egypt Jewish and Greek cabala and hidden aspects of later European Traditions is understanding that this is not not just a cosmological map this is actually something that appears in a fractal form in every human energy field and by activating this pattern in the human energy body it's a very powerful core pattern to move forward other Traditions may work on activating other patterns or centers in the energy body and that becomes a huge body of knowledge and possibility for human development but that's I would say is some of the core things I would offer about what is the structuring of the subtle bodies this is something that I think we all experienced but maybe haven't put into words the way that you just did because whether it's a pattern which was a behavioral compensation from childhood or whatever it might be of over sexualizing in your brain or gousy we've often met individuals who later in life after Decades of entraining their energetic body to be that way and like be calloused in that way where we've met you know older spiritual men for example um that are kind of unconsciously like have leaky Sexual Energy um or like the Myriad of different ways in which our subtle body kind of informs our psychology right because like we're co-creators with the subtle body in ways that we kind of create it but then also it creates us and so I just want to speak into a little bit more of how we can because it's easy to get like stressed out of you know everything that I'm doing every thought that I have every feeling that I have is in a very direct way creating my reality but it's also very liberating once you realize is um to protect the accumulations of Impressions from the outside in to be mindful of the thoughts that you are thinking um and to uproot those those paradigms that we hold so deeply that are the and become The Offspring to so much of of those thoughts and uh and so it's just a really powerful thing to to double down on for our audience here because if we're looking to structure the subtle body in a way that is beneficial to us and the world around us um then it's just really important to harness the power of our int of Our intention and attention and um and yeah and and structure it intentionally yes so this is going to be then a discussion about the Primal significance of self-observation mindfulness what gerief called self-remembering yeah uh does this go now into the six six petal Lotus as well we'll get to that in a moment absolutely first I want to touch on what you were mentioning about like the Leaky Sexual Energy that you will find um and I do think it's that's a universal phenomenon for both men and women at particular stages and there's certain things we have to be very cautious of uh that I don't think has been clearly delineated in modern spiritual circles so one aspect of this is that all three danten must be fully activated and fully Unified that means that there must be full activation of the sexual forces and they have to be integrated into the healthy emotion the Healthy Mind a healthy United State because the sexual energy is understood in the Chinese tradition is the Jing it is the core densified Life Energy and once you pass through puberty it gets expressed through the sexual forces so that has to be brought to its highest level of intensity in order to nourish the entire human energy body but also has to be integrated with all these other aspects or it can become something toxic yeah perturbed so there's an aspect of this that number one there were the problems in the European tradition of the overly sex negative uh Christian tradition particularly within Catholicism that led to the suppression of healthy sexual feeling and expression in a way that it then will become toxic if you have to hide it right then or it's like something that is described as being somehow satanic then the reason for all of the black magic circles and the black mass and all these things that developed within the Catholic Church among the priesthood is because they didn't have a healthy sexual Outlet it's going to take a detrimental form yeah how much shame you're going to create when you think you're going to burn in hell for return for having such a natural biological process happen because someone coming from like a South Sea Island that was not sexually repressed would never think to like hold a black mass where they're doing all these incredibly crazy things but that's because they got mentally programmed that oh if you're going to claim your Sexual Energy now it's satanic and now it's linked to all these other things but a healthy person would never make those associations so that was some of the problems that came into the Western tradition is that the sex negative aspect led to something absolutely fundamental becoming pathological and toxic another aspect and this also occurs with the Eastern tradition is something that is uh known as premature purification and that's not well known in spiritual circles today premature purification you will find in many Traditions also in the east in which a person begins to go on a very powerful dedic ated spiritual path but they're doing what's known as purification in place that means they haven't fully lived through their full sexual nature and sexual experiences which include sexual exploration and all types of experiences they haven't really lived through that yet and by purifying in place they're in a sense suppressing that and what might be at an early adolescent stage of sexual development stays there and gets covered up with all these layers of higher Spiritual Development but then when they get taken out of their spiritual asham context and this happened with quite a few Eastern Masters that came to the US in the 60s and 70s they had developed like certain llamas and different things also oh absolutely I mean this is true for Tibetans Indians many Eastern Traditions once they began to come to the US and many of the US disciples had somewhat naive expectations of them the thing is that there was the expectation that if this person has real citas real Powers then somehow they're a perfect human being that's not the case at all you can have all kinds of Cs and still have all types of un completed processes in your own energy body so you had these Masters that often had real abilities and higher States Of Consciousness but when they went from their asham environments in the halalas to being surrounded by newb young women or men in in uh a western context then there became all types of improper sexual manipulation of students and that's simply because they were faced with temptations that the purification in place brought out the parts of themselves that weren't allowed to develop to a higher extent so actually one of the things I think is a a great benefit of the modern Western independent spiritual path that we're seeing today is a often not clearly defined understanding but somewhat in the background that we do need to have that prodigal son or daughter stage of experiencing and experimenting with the Sexual Energy because it's the core life force until it becomes fully integrated and that even people that are highly advanced in all kinds of ways you'll if you actually get to know them you'll find that there's all kinds of of weird sexual stuff they're still working out partly because you can experiment with it today and in many of our past incarnations that was very suppressed and very difficult to work with so that's something I think people need to be aware of upfront is the challenge of premature purification of purification in place I very rarely hear any discussion of it uh and the understanding that just because someone has certain Advanced spiritual abilities it doesn't mean they've worked through all these core issues because the Sexual Energy then gets very tied into the emotional energy has to do with all types of issues of self-worth and of the desire nature and all these types of things and then it's going to be connected to the thought forms that we have around our sexuality other people's sexuality and again once people begin to get certain level of uh spiritual knowledge spiritual ability some sits as I've spoken of in other places there's one of the first challenges on the path is the path the challenge of the falling prey to a premature ego inflation and thinking you're more advanced than you are then starting your own little Guru group and then maybe it was fairly clean in the beginning then as you get more power more people give their power to you then all of those unaddressed things come out sexual manipul it's one of those things that you see so often that at this point any person involved in spiritual work just needs to be have a mature attitude toward it that this is just because someone spiritually advanced in certain ways doesn't mean that they've completed all these other developmental processes and that's very true emotionally and it's very true sexually even if their thought forms are fantastic these two centers require a lot of of work and we have the opportunity today to explore with them in ways that were very difficult to do in many previous incarnations so I just wanted to mention that as something very important that's one reason why I never present myself as like I never say I'm an initiate I never say that I'm a spiritual Master that's all a bunch of ego nonsense I'm just someone that has studied on the path and I'm offering what I think may be of use to other people I still have all kinds of crazy stuff that I'm still working through and I don't want to be inauthentic and ever claiming anything else and the people I'm most comfortable with who teach spiritually and do things of that kind are people that also acknowledge that and don't pretend to have a total purified nature now there may be spiritual teachers in the world that have attained that but that's a minority and particularly in the west many people that we work with we're all working on our own stuff okay so that's one aspect of it now the next aspect of really developing on the path is what you were touching on before is the importance in really every tradition whether you look at the ancient temples of initiation that had know thyself over the entrance way or the concepts of mindfulness in eastern Traditions the concept of self-observation in more modern Western and Eastern European Traditions also gief's concept of self-remembering is absolutely essential they're are really the same thing and that is to be able to observe yourself with complete neutrality as if you're observing a person outside of you to see what is the actual content of your thoughts your feelings and your actions now this takes slightly different forms and other Traditions it would be for example for the Buddhist it would be observing your thought your speech and your actions but these things are very closely connected and so of course these are reflections of the three primary centers what do we actually generate there that's creating the structures of the subtle bodies and so to observe these centers is the first aspect of the work so we're observing the thoughts that we generate uh the feelings that we have the actions that we're taking and getting to the point where we observe the will impulses that precede the action not just the physical action itself because we can stop performing detrimental actions in the world if we can start catching the will impulse before it manifests in the action so in day-to-day life this looks like just paying attention before like the the impulse to say something that might be hurtful to somebody or to reach in the cookie jar or whatever the case might be to observe the impulse uh before you act on the sensory like to to actually do it absolutely and so through the observation stage the first stage is one in which we don't try to change the content now usually when things are observed they're on their best behavior so our worst thoughts feelings actions or when we're not observing ourselves or we think we're not being observed by others once we start observing it people often make the mistake when they start self-observation of like oh I'm observing my thoughts so I have only the most beautiful loving kind thoughts Etc but that's not really what they're actually generating during the day so you have to do it in the midst of lived activity in the midst of being with other people and the challenges that we encounter that trigger emotional reactions those kind of things and so we observe it without trying to change it and then we begin to see how detrimental or as the Tibetans would say unskillful many of the thoughts feelings and actions we're generating actually are it also leads to what gerief I think quite brilliantly referred to as the terror of the situation that that has many different aspects but one part of it is man my thoughts feelings actions are really something I wouldn't want other people to clearly see because it's not very Advanced at all so that's the first stage You're simply observing it like it actually is no sugar coating then we start working with the direction of it so this then as I describe in my online course and essential teachings and practices of spiritual science one of those essential teachings and practices is the one about being able to generate a clear mind State that's receptive meditation where we can hold the Mind clear and then we can perceive non-physical realities or even our own internal content without sugar coating or Illusions over it so there's the receptive meditation there's the active meditation that's where we take action to craft a thought form and to create on a higher level so the receptive and the active work together we're doing the re receptive when we're observing the internal content you have to have a clear mind State mind is like the clear surface of water or a clear sky is the way it's often described and then we go into the active where now I'm going to generate the beneficial thought forums that I know would be my true potential the generation of the beneficial emotions that's my true potential generation of the actual will impulses and actions that's my true potential and so there's a those two aspects of meditation come in and often in many Traditions today there's only the teaching of receptive or active but rarely both and we have to have both so you'll find with things like Zen vapas Transcendental Meditation very powerful fantastic systems primarily receptive but many Western system systems primarily active and some of them they never teach people to attain a clear mind State before they start generating more things so now you're generating more content on top of monkey mind chatter and it it destroys the power of the coherent thought form so the like a very powerful combination would be like a basana or shunia something that kind of helps you realize the clear sky of your being and then a gratitude or loving kindness meta meditation where it's you're directing with your will kindness and and well-being for those around you essentially absolutely and this would then lead to that act of meditation where you're crafting the specific types of thoughts specific types of emotions the specific actions in the world and that is really the active part of it now when we understand that this is absolutely essential I've mentioned number of times but I think it's worth repeating here uh something that I I often like to bring up as an example of this type of waking up and self-observation process again it comes from the work related to the Russian esotericist gief one of his students was PD Al spiny who wrote a fantastic book called in search of the miraculous and in that book Al spiny talks about the way that he's learned from gerief the importance of what he calls self-remembering which is to observe yourself throughout the day because when you're not observing yourself you're actually unconscious you're actually in a trance State and so he describes the way that he wakes up in the morning he manages to attain self-remembering he's observing himself all the time he's going to work in the morning and he looks in a shop window and he sees something and the next time he becomes conscious again is it's late that night and he's taking his clothes off after the day of a full day at work and everything else but he had been unconscious the entire time he fell unconscious looking in the shop window he didn't wake up again until that evening he had gone to work he' done a full day's work he'd gone out to dinner with friends he' done all these other things but he had been unconscious the whole time just operating in this Trans State this is one aspect of the terror of the situation when you wake up and you realize we're in a sleeping Trans State all the time most of humanity is and that's one reason why there's so much destructive activity in the world is that people in trans states are programmed to do certain things that are often destructive and so that is the experience that many of us have on the path is we will have that terar of the situation of good God I just fell into a trans state that person spoke to me in that voice that subconsciously reminded me of this trauma State and I just went out and I I spoke and I acted detrimentally and then I did all these other ridiculous things and now I'm just becoming conscious again so the goal is to be conscious all the time through the self-remembering process now we can also connect that to what is considered the most essential practice in the rosac crucian tradition which is sometimes called the six basic exercises I prefer to call them the six essential exercises and sometimes when they're dealt with only the receptive aspect is described and I think that under the rubric of the six essential exercises both the receptive and active aspects must be practiced so I go into detail about all six of the exercises in my Essential teachings and practices of spiritual science course because that's where I try to lay down some of these fundamentals everything else has to be built on this beginning so the six basic or essential exercises in Rosicrucianism are six because they are half of the lotus Petals of the 12 petal Lotus of the heart so it's understood in the Indian tradition that the chakras have a certain number of lotus petals yeah there's very deep knowledge in the halalas of what these energy centers are and if you look at the original Sanskrit names of them and Sanskrit descriptions they'll talk about the Divine forces that are microcosmically present in us through these chakras that give us these Divine abilities even like anahata which is referring to that energy center yeah like in early Sanskrit teachings my understanding is that the actual vibration of the word when it was said actually correlates and resonates to the geometric pattern yes of that that it's fantastic that in the ancient sacred languages like Sanskrit Hebrew some aspects of ancient Egyptian these languages are the expression of the vibrational power of the thing into the scale of sound and so that's where you get the Haka sounds of power in ancient Egypt that's where you get the mystery of the cabalistic word there's something very similar in the Indian tradition where these are the seed syllables these are the sounds they carry a power and the original true name names of things are the combinations of the seed syllables that are the vibrational manifestation of the power of the thing that's being described and that's a tremendous thing so fascinating I was really just having a conversation recently with a with a new friend about the yeah one of the lineages in Sanskrit there's many different um ways in which the alphabet is constructed but one has 64 letters which also encodes with 64 of the DNA you know in many different 64 it's just so interesting and how the six Indian Six Original Indian schools of philosophy Vidant being just one of them like would correlate as you were saying the hymns or whatever would actually be the correlation and that the vibration in saying it is more so the teaching than the intellectual I guess digesting of the of the words um it's just it's so fascinating all the like delineating all these different wisdom traditions and how they would disseminate this wisdom yes absolutely and you find that these types of universal Mysteries are so core you find it in multiple Traditions like the mystery of the primordial word and the the sounds of power is very very significant because again with then when you said the name of something you actually were manifesting the power of it through the sound so with the six so back yeah six excises uh we have the six Lotus Petals of the heart one lotus petal is being developed by each of the six different exercises in the six essential exercises the other six Lotus petals are considered in the rosar crucian tradition to have been developed in previous lifetimes in previous stages of evolution so six of them are already somewhat active the other six need to be brought up through our own activity to their full activity the first one of the exercises is the observation and direction of our thinking content upper dantan content the second is the observation and then direction of our feeling content the middle dantean and then the third is the observation and direction of our will forces and our actions in the world and our Dynamic life forces the lower danten then the fourth one has to do with a type of unbreakable positivity toward all of our life activities toward everything that comes to us through through our life uh which is easier said than done to to keep a positive view on it because even the most terrible destructive things are often a part of developing the pearl of great price they are the initiation trials and often people that have a lot that they need to overcome um are simply on the accelerated path of Spiritual Development uh even though they have a lot of challenges and it's very painful to always look for the The Beneficial the positive in things that has a real effect on the holy energy body then the fifth one is having a kind of like they talk about Zen mind beginner's mind it's a type of openness an openness to seeing everything differently than how we normally see it no matter how advanced we get that we have the openness to new experiences new people completely new ways of life and really seeing and experiencing things completely differently so a radical openness at all times because you'll often find even though somebody's very spiritually developed they kind of get into their little you know it may be a fairly healthy rut but it's still kind of a rut and we we need to keep that dynamism of like The Beginner's mind I find like especially when it's most difficult are usually our most intimate relationships like family at Thanksgiving dinner like the times where it's really difficult to stay open and carry that openness are actually our greatest opportunities to cultivate that capacity for staying open you know like when it's hard to is actually when it's that real opportunity is to develop that absolutely yeah that's very much the case we have so many embedded transstates related to interactions with family particularly because so much of that happened when we were very young before we developed conscious mind and so that stuff goes really deep so that's five of them then the sixth is a harmonization of all of these together into one thing so the idea is that in the Ros crucian tradition um Rudolph Steiner mentioned that no matter what other exercises you do any detrimental effects that could come from any other detrimental activities that you engage in detrimental thoughts feelings actions uh detrimental effects of other types of spiritual practices they will be balanced by doing these six so particularly for people today who are experimenting with things from a lot of different traditions this really creates a core Foundation because again we're observing and directing benefici everything that's happening on all these levels the other aspect of it is that why are we focusing then on developing the Heart Center first because we have to understand that in many ancient Traditions they're using the method of bottom up Activation so that's like Kundalini systems you activate the base of the spine first then you go upward but we have to understand that historically many of those types of particularly Eastern Traditions would be in an setting and you would often be separated from people of the opposite sex or any type of sexual Temptation because if you open up the base of the spine energies first you're taking them up Shuma you're taking them up to the crown and then of course in more advanced work like you find in nepes Tradition Casmir shavis you're starting to go up and you're working with even higher centers but it's within a context that you're opening up these very powerful vital life energies and it was was understood at the time well that could just go into wild levels of sexual activity if you're opening up that powerful forces and so that's why you know in some of the older Traditions they would say they would give people meditations like seeing the uh in your meditation on it the body of a person you might have sexual desire for as being full of excrement and all kinds of horrible nasty things you wouldn't be attracted to and these are ways to try to manage it in a practical form now of course it has its benefits this is a a real path that works if it's done properly the problem we have today of course with the bottom up systems other than what I just mentioned is that you have to have the subtle energy channels open otherwise you get what's called diverted risings and that leads to Kundalini sickness like what groupy Krishna talks about in his book on Kundalini and a lot of people got it in the 60s and 70s now just as a quick side note to that uh for the bottom up method when many people began to develop because they hadn't opened up the subtle energy channels enough before they opened up Kundalini in 60s and 70s in the US that was based on certain Eastern approaches that normally would have prerequisites before you did the higher level work so one thing that happened then is the early 1980s the hidden material from the Chinese DST yoga became available for the first time to the public very hidden before and so at that time they told people well what you're really working with then is the spinal Channel and then the front channel of the body governing vessel and conception vessel in Chinese medicine so the problem that is that you're getting diverted risings it's not going straight up to the Crown Center it's getting stuck in these other channels and what you need to do also is to make sure the energy doesn't get stuck in the head because the head cannot store vital energy safely vital energy is stored in the lower abdomen What's called the lower danten in the uh Dallas Trad I condition and so they taught people how to connect the circuit simply by touching the tip of the tongue to the roof of the mouth the governing vessel coming up the spine this is also what's behind the Egyptian form of the staff in Egyptian initiation the first part of the staff is coming up the spine into the Jade pillow round the back of the head going up to the Crown Center then to the front where part of it can come out of the upper brow Center as the Urus but then it continues down to the upper pallet if it stays there you can build up too much energy in the head and you'll start getting Kundalini sickness if you touch the tip of the tongue to the roof of the mouth the tongue is the electrical conductor that links the governing vessel to the conception vessel and then the energy will run down from the head down the tongue move down the conception vessel where it can either circulate in What's called the microcosmic orbit or it can be stored through Vortex movements in the lower abdominal Reg region in the lower donen so that's just a quick sidelight for people related to the bottom up method of activation then the top down method really became popularized with Christian initiation where you see the pictures of the Christ uh in the baptism in the Jordan by John and you see the line of Light Above his head that column of spirit that's so important in all traditions for advanced initiation and you see uh the dove of the Holy Spirit descending down into his Crown Center so that's an indication of the top down method and so you would actually activate the Consciousness first and then from the conscious activation you then move down to all the other chakras and centers so that bottom up top down but what people don't often realiz is there is a center out method and that's the rosac crucian method is Center out so that's why we're doing the six basic exercises first and activating the heart chakra first with the six basic exercises because it's understood in the rosac crucian tradition that we can activate any of the chakras we can activate any acupuncture point in the body any meridians every one of these holds uh a nectar inside of them even all the acupuncture points have a different divine power and nectar and on a greater scale so do the chakras and so when we activate them we go into them we can taste feel participate in that nectar but the thing is there always has to be some type of larger pattern or coordination for the activations otherwise it can just be all types of scattered fragments so the rosac crucians understand that by doing the six basic exercises first we're activating the heart to become the organizing center for the entire body of energy which is of incredibly signic ific impact for people's Spiritual Development so that whatever else they're doing to activate things in their energy body which again we're doing all the time through our thoughts our feelings our actions is all getting harmonized and coordinated with this type of Vortex center of the chakra of the heart being fully active and then organizing and coordinating everything throughout the body of energy and again the beginning of it is those mindfulness Consciousness practices that then linked to our earlier topic so now we see how that's now developing into a specific system in one particular tradition in this case the rosac crucian that understands these other things contextually for why are we doing this I think that's uh I mean you dive much deeper in your courses which I think are incredible like you're such a powerful synthesizer of so many of these understandings highly recommend this process of cultivating the illuminated will I would love for you to share a little bit because tied in here right as we walk through our life to uh and we go on the process of self-actualization clearing out a lot of the stuff become more healthy clear we have the power to and capacity for this illuminated will to arise within our life and so uh what is that for people that don't understand or are familiar with that so again I think we can understand it in context as part of the three primary centers with the Consciousness uh and the Heart forces of the emotional life and then the dynamic life forces of the body and how that manifests behind every action that we take so if we understand these three centers from another perspective the rosac crucian Rudolph Steiner working with other rosac crucian created what's known as anthroposophic medicine anthroposophic medicine is rosar crucian form of medicine it actually has hospitals and things in Germany and there are practitioners around the world they're all accredited medical doctors before they do the anthroposophic uh medicine training and they'll then as far as functional centers of the body refer to the Head Center as the nerve sense Center they'll refer to the middle dantean the Heart Center as the rhythmic Center because there's a rhythm that's maintained in the human body That's essential for life in both the respiration rate of the lungs and the puls of the heart and then in the lower abdomen they call it the metabolic limb system because that's everything to do with our metabolism our Dynamic life force and vitality and how it gets expressed through our actions through the movement of the limbs so when we see it from that perspective we can also add in another perspective there's a particular meditation that I do in some courses uh to activate the three centers with their core function and so we refer then to the function of the head Center the conscious Center as the function of light because Consciousness is light when light gets turned inside out and we experience light internally we experience Consciousness when Consciousness gets turned inside out to be expressed externally it becomes light light and Consciousness are the exact same thing so this is the center of light then for the forces of The Middle dantan those are the forces of love so we have light love and love is the force that allows us to unite our Essence with another person it's that force of pulling us magnetically toward another person to be able to have two become one and return back to the one the Divine State it can only be done through the heart forces force of love then the lower abdominal forces are life they are the life forces they are what anim the physical body and make us alive and are behind every action we take in the world which also generates Karma so we have light love and life as the three centers so when we talk about the illuminated will we're talking about those forces that are connected to the lower abdomen the metabolic limb forces the ability to take action in our life the ability to take action in the world to transform the world around us and so illuminated with is really bringing together all of these centers where we have the clear Consciousness the clear understanding of the upper dantean the loving kindness connection to all that lives from the love heart center and then the ability to take action through the limbs and other actions in the world through the lower Donan so illuminated will has to be illuminated with light and with love so it really is a coding for activating all three centers together and then it being expressed sign me up sounds great so illuminated will then as we were talking about the six essential exercises there's an aspect of this again that it's not just the observation of the actual actions we take in the world but it's also becoming aware of that moment before the action is taken to where we have that impulse that will lead to an action and that requires a deeper level of self-observation because we can stop ourselves from taking detrimental actions from speaking in an angry destructive way to another person or even thinking destructive thoughts and generating destructive emotions there's like a first impulse that comes in anybody that observes their reactive mind will become aware of that impulse and how it flares up like there's an actual energetic activation in the lower abdomen that happens it's a flaring of energy when a person becomes angry activated in some way triggered by external things so it's the observation of that trigger State before action is taken and so again whenever anything is observed it tends to get on its best behavior and we'll have a moment uh a gap there between that initial impulse and acting on it and doing something so illuminated will requires that ability to observe that initial impulse to the action and run it through the powers of the three centers to only make it an action if it's something that is connected to our highest ideal and what we really want to accomplish in the world and not a reactive mind simple reactive state to something that we should deal with differently so I want to get your quick opinion because I mean I could literally talk to you for eight hours and and I feel like I'm going to there's still a lot I want to dive into this conversation but for those like that of course want to cultivate the capacity for illuminated will to the actions they take in the world to be in coherence with the light and love of their body uh but it's very they find it very difficult to pay attention to the sensation before the impulse um to even observe it before it happens it's very much so automatic and especially that people when people feel uh like they're very held on to by their addictive Tendencies uh like the grip is so strong it really hard it's really hard to even get to what we're speaking to I feel like often times and so um is there anything that you would would mention for those that feel like the grip on an addictive impulse for alcohol for sex for weed for um even a thought pattern like it is just so ingrained mhm there's there's a lot of things I'll just mention a few of them briefly so of course there's a Master System developed in Buddhism for these types of things which again goes back to the mindfulness so when they work with addiction they will often say in the beginning don't even try to stop the addiction just be completely mindful of everything that you're thinking feeling Etc at the moment that you're doing it and just completely observe how does it actually make you feel what's the actual impact on you when you're fully conscious because an addictive impulse is one that's a Trans State and if you can be fully conscious at that moment you can do what in neural linguistic programming is called a pattern interrupt and you can interrupt the trance so that's one thing again there's much more detail on it in all the great Buddhist uh Traditions but the the core of it is simply to be very mindful you don't not do it but actually what does that alcohol actually taste like what does it actually feel like how does actually affect your Consciousness are you becoming more aware enlightened loving or are you becoming something else through the effect of this on your Consciousness can you even stay conscious after you've drunk alcohol or is it pulling you automatically out of that into nothing but transstates so the observation and the actual experience of it fully is like a major part of it now there's also the aspect of it that as we have today in neural linguistic programming as a clarification of a lot of the subconscious programming of the human being there's the aspect of it where it all comes down to pain and pleasure if we subconsciously associate pleasure with the activity we will always do it no matter what the conscious mind says no matter what we're told from external sources is the right thing to do if we associate pleasure with it we will continue to do it or to seek to do it and if you haven't worked through changing your Association of it from pleasure to pain then even if you stop doing it it's like the people who are working against addictions and they say oh I struggle every day i' love to have a drink and and so they're like suffering inside because oh I want it I yearn for it so bad but I can't have it and there's like a lot of internal conflict they're not a super conductor spiritually it's like massive internal conflict all the time so the way to get out of that is simply to change the association now that may be easier said than done but the core of it is that this is the truth of it and that's why neurolinguistic programming has been very successful for so many people for different things quick side note I do think that neurolinguistic programming has taken many wrong turns and a lot of neural linguistic programming today like courses that are offer Etc is basically how to use it for like marketing things to people that they don't need or how to use it to make manipulate other people subconsciously by knowing their inner code and triggering them to certain actions so I think a lot of it has become very toxic uh but that doesn't change the fact that the actual observations in neural linguistic programming are very very helpful the problem is that it became this type of you know how do you hypnotize another person to doing your will type of thing rather than what it should be which rather than how you induce trans stat in other people to get them do what you want them to do it should be how to train people to observe for themselves their trans States and how to get out of them and how to observe when another person's trying to put them in a Trans State through their speech their Cadence their tonality all these methods that are used in hypnotic induction and that are very well mapped in neur linguistic programming if it was used for the light it would be training every member of the public for how it works so they can no longer be manipulated by it and it teach them how to get out of trans States and into another state that's what its potential is so I just want to make that clear when I'm talking about NLP a lot of the way that it's being done today I don't think is healthy but nonetheless the knowledge itself is something significant so if you can change your Association so people that do therapy connected to NLP a person's trying to stop smoking or stop eating and they're obese or whatever it is it has to do with the fact that they have the subconscious Trans State where they associate pleasure with the activity and instead they have to be taken through a process where now they associate tremendous pain with the activity like for people who are heroin addicts and can't get off heroin they associate tremendous pleasure with it but what about all the people that aren't on heroin they don't do it because they associate pain with it they associate the pain of shooting up they associate the pain of what it does to your life they associate the pain of what it would do to all the aspects of their social connections so it's all a matter of where the attention is focused so if we can change the focus of attention along with mindfulness to what something actually is and how it actually affects us and we can for the things that are detrimental associate pain with them there's no inner struggle you're a superconductor and you have no attraction to that addictive thing whatsoever if the things that we should be doing that we don't I need to eat healthy I need to exercise need to heal my relationship with this person whatever that is if we associate pleasure with it we will do it so it all comes down to pain pleasure Association and again we have these modern systems that will help us understand exactly how the trans state is formed and how the trans state is disintegrated I would then mention that this is also part of the Psychedelic Renaissance I was just meeting yesterday with some lovely people in Santa Monica uh who have a medical practice uh that is exploring the use of psychotropics with stopping addictive processes and overcoming trauma Etc and of course there's a lot of that happening now this is a real growth field it's really in its infancy as as how it's becoming medicalized or systematized within medical practice but it's so well understood now that some of these substances if you take them uh they will be the pattern interrupt to where you can change that state and you can break the addictive pattern and this goes all the way back to the 50s people doing LSD and they stop being alcoholics after one trip so that's because it's changing our Focus it's changing our perception it's also activating the energy body in a particular way all of which are interrelated yeah like John Hopkins recent studies or uh fairly recent studies of psilocybin in conjunction with therapy being extremely much more effective than any SSRI or like the futility Pharmaceuticals yes so those are just a few things I would bring up for the breaking of addiction that's powerful you know young has that quote that is pleasure is tension reduction and a lot of it is like H it's it's just it's so Illuminating to see how all of it really is programming within us and how we perceive what is going to bring us pain versus pleasure so I think even alone the awareness of that Insight um starts to open the door into you actually reprogramming that through the various different Buddhist NLP or whatever marad of different um yeah uh methods to to be able to rewrite that that code so I want to Now open up who the beings of araman Lucifer these luciferic and armonic impulses within us the qualities that come from these beings um and for people that aren't familiar with them in their traditional understanding of of what and who they are yes um and then we'll kind of find the middle way as we as we tend to do here but uh yeah I'm excited to dive into this because it's been a big I think point of Illumination of my own path the past few months so excited to I've been yes so we mentioned before everything comes from the one everything comes from the Divine plane then all the things that will manifest on the lower planes first manifest as Spiritual Beings that hold particular impulses particular functions in an individualized form and so again that's why you find in all the ancient Traditions they have all these gods and goddesses that have different powers now over time that became materialized and somewhat caricatured but nonetheless the core idea was there so as we're looking at the idea of the proper path of our spiritual Evolution on Earth there's going to be those forces that are part of the absolute correct pathway directly in our evolutionary trajectory of getting to our spiritual destination now all of these things that we're talking about here are these core spiritual principles that form everything in our world starting with Divine to the spiritual plane then to the Realms of Karma and coration with the causal plane then everything below it they're all thought forms in the mind of God so that's one of the the terms that I find absolutely essential on the spiritual path is at the highest level the thought forms in the mind of God are of all the differentiated systems that will create the alchemical chamber that we're incarnating into as human beings for the structuring process and the alchemical retort and so those thought forms in the mind of God will manifest as beings on the spiritual plane now that as thought forms in the mind of God always has a sacred geometric form to it and that's why when you see these geometric forms and different Traditions they are themselves packed thought forms there's very deep things behind what you just see as a simple shape so for example if you look at the form of the Tree of Life the gold pattern that I talk about this core pattern of energy in the human body has a central Channel and has two side channels the human body is based on that we have the right and the left sides the yin and the Yang but before there was ever polarity there was the one there was that one Central channel so this occurs in the human energy body in the central channel that goes from the perenium to the crown now this is not Shuma Shuma is an interior channel of the spine also very important Channel but the the one in the absolute center of the human body is the central channel that you see on the the tree of life it certainly connects to and works with shishna but it's it's its own thing then we have the two side channels in the body that are polarized the EA and pingala are I guess that would be different that's no those are the forces within it they're not described that way in let's say the Egyptian Jewish Greek cabalistic uh but they do exist there so we have in this case we're talking about two straight side channels got it but within the two straight side channels is the potential for caducous movement of the polarized forces which is the Eden pingala and at that point they can begin to kaduceus and interconnect with the chakra system and whenever you get two opposite polarities connecting together now we're getting to vibrational science in vibrational science you get two opposite polarities together and this is also the core of Tantra in biological beings but it occurs with everything two opposite polarities combined together they will create a type of implosive cascade to Center that opens up uh a Gateway Beyond time and space and that's happening all the time with e pingala combinations and kusus and there's things about this not using the terms Idan pingla but using other terms and connection to Spiritual Beings in things like the Greek tradition for example but if you understand the core pattern you can find it how it's being expressed in different ways so we've got the two side channels in the body which can also caducus and then we've got the central Channel only that Central channel on the tree of life goes up to the very highest the crown ker and all the way down to the lowest the Earth malat so this is actually a pattern in the human energy body now if we see this then as a microcosm of the larger pattern we can also see this aspect where the two polarities can manifest in their most primordial form as a circle because the circle in the sphere Spar are really the first forms in sacred geometry they're like a evolutionary Cascade from thought forms in the mind of God you always start with an immaterial Center that immaterial Center like the Bindu Point has other names and other Traditions that immaterial Center is the connection point to the Divine plane it's in the center of everything not metaphorically but literally a lot of Egyptian biogeometry that I'm also very fortunate to teach through my teacher Ibraham kareim and Cairo Egypt uh is all about how do you activate that immaterial Center of any person place thing because there's a Divine plain energy that expands when you do so it's remarkable system so the beginning is always the immaterial center that connects us back to the Divine to the one then that moves outward just like the concept of the singularity in physics moving outward to form SpaceTime and that's what it does it forms SpaceTime and it forms then around it spiritual plane causal plane Etc so these planes then form in sheathes around it microcosmically that is present in every person place and thing on earth those planes also have this formation this gets into technical knowledge of uh Temple initiation and Temple Sciences until you get to the outer boundary with the physical plane so you always have that movement from the immaterial center out to the periphery and that's what you see for example with the hieroglyph for the sun in ancient Egypt it's a point in the center of a circle and then that becomes in later Traditions the point in the center of the circle for the rosac crucian and godhead they'll have a something under it saying that it's the form of the godhead Po in the center of the circle is the godhead the sun is the center of our solar system but also connected to the Divine plane and the godhead so it's a symbol for the Sun as in ancient Egypt it's also a symbol for gold so in alchemy po the center of circle is a symbol for gold that's because gold is the material crystallization of the energy field of the Sun not metaphorically but literally it has that vibrational Essence which is why it was so red in ancient times just like silver is the actual crystallization of the energy field of the moon so you then have the form of the circle of the sphere as the primordial movement so let's say you have one of those that is made of one polarity now if you're going to combine that with the opposite polarity the two circles or spheres will overlap creating the VES yeah so that's the whole idea behind the vesa Institute it's where the two opposite polarities male female Heaven and Earth inner and outer all these sorts of things then combine with each other and where they overlap and what's today is sometimes called a ven diagram it makes that almond shape where the two become one but then the outer sides of both circles where they're not overlapping then has the pure polarity information of the two but this is like the KY to Tantra the two are overlapping and they create that almond shaped enclosure and now you can connect back to the Divine to the godhead so if we understand that as a core pattern for how energy works as when we apply that same principle to human evolution then we have a central path that goes Heaven and Earth and and is like the direct path in our development which be like Christos or the Christ Channel kind of energy exactly when we see it in the concepts and terminology of the western tradition this would be the the energy of the Christ is held in that Central Channel and then as we move it from the Christ level to the Angelic level then in the west that Central channel is connected to Archangel Mikael considered to be the most advanced of the archangels in the western system so you have that as the central channel the only one that goes all the way up and all the way down in the tree of life microcosmically in the human body and then you have the two side channels and that manifests as what must occur if there's any freedom in a developmental system for freedom in a system that is conscious and can make Free Will choices you have to have the option to go off toward one polarity or the other polarity if you don't have that option there is no freedom and so our challenge as human beings is how to stay on that path toward our spiritual destination and not get too pulled off to one side or the other now just as the Christ Mikael Etc in the western system are the beings that are supporting us on that Journey on the middle pillar the middle path described by the Tibetans because the Tibetan system is all about the middle path take that middle path don't go too off to that extreme or the other extreme so there must be Spiritual Beings that embody going off the pathway to one side because this is really the pathway because we Are Spiritual Beings incarnated in a physical body it is the question of how do I act as a spiritual being in a physical body combining the necessities of spirit with the necessities of matter to get to the goal because that's a complex system we have to work with all of the demands of the phys physical body all the demands of the physical plane of embodiment with what the spiritual goal is and to keep all that coordinated is a real art in every human life so we have then if it goes off balance with the perfect balance of spirit and matter it can go off to the spirit side if it goes off to the spirit side it can lead to illusory forms of Spiritual Development it can go to the side of wanting constant ecstatic process to the point that the physical body cannot maintain it and so like example if you're a heroin addict you're running constant ecstatic process but the physical body just degenerates if you do that it can't take that can't handle the charge and so the impulse that's leading us to an unbalanced spirituality that ignores or doesn't properly esteem or understand the physical plane is what became known uh in terms of Lucifer meaning light error because there's a tremendous misunderstanding in some Modern spiritual religions and uh even spiritual Seekers that we have the darkness and the light and the light is good and the Darkness is bad but too bright a light can blind us as surely as complete darkness can and so there's a misunderstanding in working with Spiritual Beings that any being that appears in light is a good being not necessarily because these are beings of tremendous spiritual light the luciferic beings were at large and of course their leader would be Lucifer himself the problem of even discussing this I'm doing my best to go very pedantically step by step through it because otherwise if you start talking about oh Lucifer and araman and Satan there's so much conditioning there's so much conditioning there's so much caricaturing it becomes so trivialized and so ridiculous that we have to understand that our thought for about these things are highly corrupted and so it's very hard for me to talk about this in public things because people have all types of knee-jerk reactions to these things either they don't exist or they want to go some fundamentalist route toward it and we have to start from the beginning so that's what I did the best to start at the beginning with it so we then have the luciferic forces Which pull us toward getting away from everything we have to deal with in human physical life and just wanting to be totally spiritual and constant ecstatic process things of that kind so it manifest with everything of that nature and it also manifests as again illus forms of spirituality spiritual teachings that are not true because for the luciferic beings it's fun to influence uh human beings which are like little children from their perspective to like come up with these wild fantasies about what actually exists they're not really that concern with spiritual science like whatever wild fantasy you have about how things are that's fine so that's the luciferic side then the aramon side is the opposite temptation to give all the weight to the material side of the Incarnation and then their ultimate uh teaching just like the ultimate teaching of the luciferic is basically everything in the physical plane is a Maya it's an illusion it doesn't exist get off the cycle of Karma and reincarnation there's no purpose for being here um and part of that comes from compassion for them they have their own weird ways but it's there's a a term in Russian that means a kind of condescending pity and they kind of have that they're kind of like why put these young Spiritual Beings through this thing that looks terrible have a good time get out of there so on the other side we have the the aramon beings and they have the name aramon uh because that's how they were described in the Persian zor asrian religion many thousands of years ago that was the first religion to describe them clearly because that was at the stage of human development the time that that religion crystallized with its particular spiritual initiate zor Aster that formed it uh they were the first to like really perceive this action before they were so Clairvoyant they weren't perceiving what was in the matter side so much so the aramon forces are the ones that make us believe that everything everything spiritual is an illusion it doesn't exist at all only matter is real they are behind all types of materialism if they had their way we would believe that we're nothing but a accident of chemicals randomly coming together and through a force of some type of blind Evolution we're just an evolutionary accident and we don't exist before birth we don't exist after death there's nothing spiritual there's nothing but the darwinian survival of the fittest nature is read in tooth and Claw and you're actually serving evolution by victimizing other people because the strongest should get the the proceeds and the weak should be destroyed and consumed so that's the aromantic side of it pure materialism and so this became embodied within the Passion Play of the Life of Christ with the Christ being crucified on a cross between two thieves EES so there's one on one side and one on the other side just like the VES the two polarities and Christ in the center the two pillars on the tree of life and the one that goes all the way up and down is in the center with Christ literally being crucified on it Shuma and Binga yes exactly and so uh what you find in that is that the the thief that has the luciferic tendency is overshadowed by Lucifer says to the Thief uh you and I deserve to suffer but this man is blameless and uh he inclines his head toward the Christ you see this on all of the depictions of the the three crosses at golgatha that one of the thieves has his head inclined toward Christ the other is turned away from Christ the one that's head inclined toward Christ is the one with the luciferic impulse luciferic beings don't intend harm to the level that the aramon do and so he inclines his head toward the Christ and he says says take me with you into your father's Kingdom and Christ says you will be with me in my father's Kingdom tonight and the other thief rebukes and reviles the Christ and his head is turned away and that shows a certain something about the nature of these beings and the redeemed Lucifer is known as the paraclete or the Parian spirit and that's something that happens within our own nature where our more wild partying uh exuberant experience of of life sometimes not very grounded can be turned toward the central pillar and toward the the central path in a way that should be understood the the materialistic side is the other thing so we have then the idea that we have the middle pillar with the Christ Mikael we have the unbalanced spirituality with Lucifer and the unbalanced materiality with araman now of course this is is just a fundamental thought form about the whole thing and many Dynamic activities in spiritual reality are happening all the time and we are all influenced by Lucifer and araman all the time we would not have a physical body and a physical world to live in without the activity of the aramon beings they're the beings referred to in gnosticism as the demiurge the dark lord of this Earth they actually took the blueprint and crystalize it into physical matter that's part of their power they're all about materialism and they would be perf ly happy to manifest in human bodies that's they'd love to do that but because of certain things that are in place with the entire spiritual structure of human Incarnation on the Earth by and large they're prevented from doing that because that would be like getting a an old child molester playing in the sandbox with the children they're not allowed that that particular thing but they have to be present here they have to have that magnetic pull toward their materialism side just like Lucifer gives a magnetic pull to the other side or else there would be no free freedom in our development in Rosicrucianism all of the higher Angelic ranks the nine ranks above the human race who are conscious beings that went through their stages of becoming self-aware multiple Cycles ago and the ones that did it most recently are called the angels two cycles before us archangels three Cycles before arai all the way up to many many cycles before you get to cherubim and seraphim so these are the great ancient ones they talk about ignosticism these are ancient beings massive Consciousness States for these and so the human race also has a name because we are the group of Spiritual Beings that are currently undergoing our self-aware state to become independent beings and so our esoteric name in rosac christianism is spirits of love and freedom so we have to perfectly balance love and freedom in our lives the same way as as we balance spirit and matter in a sense the spirit is connected to the love and the materialism is connected to the freedom in the sense that as an independent being separate from the others love is the force of attraction to merge back to the one and that's very connected to spiritual activity uh but you're not independent then you're part of you're back to the one and then the independence come when you're separate from others which is materialism you're completely separate from others you don't care what happens to others if you become totally materialistic and it all becomes completely egocentric your own ego inflation and then you control and dominate and screw over other people so we have to balance love and freedom both have to be completely present in an alchemy that we're developing so Lucifer and araman have to be present with the spiritual and materialistic sites or we wouldn't have any freedom of choice many human beings will shade over to becoming more luciferic many have shaded over to becoming more uh materialistic in AR you say many more like is there an imbalance currently armonic certainly in the west there's no question that araman is ruling the day and sometimes with people involved in the spiritual science work we refer to um araman Flagship is America America is aram's Flagship in the world we're sailing on araman Flagship living here there's a reason why we might have chosen to live here um it is really leading this whole particular type of movement then you find more luciferic Tendencies and some of like the Eastern Mountain kingdoms and things like that and I say that without any type of fundamentalist like condemnation of them these are incredible places when you you have places like Bhutan and such where they look at uh rather than the gross domestic product they're looking at whatever they call the gross human happiness scale or things like that I mean I appreciate very much what they have it's not putting them down to say that but you see the different Tendencies the East tends to be more luciferic the West tends to be more aramon is just a kind of tendency that happens with how that sacred geometry gets distributed in the world so all this then comes together with understanding what people learn in a completely corrupted way about Lucifer and Satan so people have been taught in the west today that Lucifer and Satan are the same being doesn't make the slightest bit of sense Lucifer is the lightbearer he's a tremendous being of Light how does that connect to a satanic being that lives in the Underworld as this type of corrupt Gnar type of being they're AB absolutely opposite forces so they're not the same being at all now in higher levels of even some of the more rigidified religions like in Catholicism the Jesuits will talk about oh yes Satan and Lucifer are two different beings but outside of of that the way that it tends to get disseminated people think they're one being and again that leads to a tremendous corruption you always have to understand the middle path is the way we're going on and we can fall off to either side without any type of sensationalistic understanding of the beings involved it's just a matter of fact just like there are certain bacteria that we can't let spread in our bodies but we don't freak out about the fact that bacteria exist so the the concept of Satan comes from the uh movement of the understanding of araman into later times so in Hebrew this being was referred to not as araman but as H Satan which means in Hebrew the adversary and then that got simplified to Satan in the western tradition and not coincidentally H set on is related to set in Egypt when the Jewish people came out of Egypt and the Exodus the knowledge they got from Moses is all from the Egyptian temples so araman becomes set becomes Hasan and now Satan today so that's my capsule summary of the nature of these beings and how it pertains to our own particular development and not having a sensationalistic view of it but understanding that these beings are influencing us all the time it's always a matter of trying to find our way on the middle path I often like to give this particular anecdote that many years ago I was watching the series Miami Vice and uh tubs and Crockett are talking to each other these two cops and uh one of them asks the other says you know as undercover cups we have to always deal with um the question of Are We crossing the line in what we do and the other one looks at him and says I don't even see the line until I'm over it yeah and I thought that was like the best summary of this type of thing that middle pillar line is something we often don't even see it until we're off of it and realize I've gone off to one side or the other it makes so much sense like how can Oneness have the experience of itself without The Duality without the separation to be able to to see itself in its all of its Glory yes um yes incredible so I find the understanding of both these luciferic and armonic impulses very contextualizing for our own human Journey on a microcosm level but then also societally on the macrocosm level these are both very important energy systems for us to be able to have the Free Will and to eventually actually know who we are without the separation it's not possible right now for every listener we we have our own imbalances one way or the other one very common one is this luciferic inflation which I've heard you speak too many times which I actually feel like I've kind of had my own cter and realization to my own personal Journey the past few weeks I think that with this being the know thyself podcast with so much of like spiritual work kind of being focused on the self self-development self- attainment um self-realization like a lot of focus on self I'm also very blessed to receive a lot of beautiful Reflections and compliments of like you're so mature you're so developed for your age you know being in the position where I'm discussing a lot of these topics like I I get that it's beautiful and I was examining especially the part of me that like really believes it you know like even subtly relishes and hearing that and convinces myself that like no I don't I don't need to receive it like that but thank you you know but the part of me that actually does kind of believe into that and feed into any superiority and uh it was actually kind of like a painful uh just uncovering of realizing how in many ways I was viewing my spirituality stopping within the confines of my own comfort and convenience um any ways in which like my own view of spirituality was kind of creating more separation and so I want to speak into this because you know this conversation kind of this Insight I would say kind of came out of a conversation with a friend Daniel schmachtenberger few like four or five days ago which I don't know if you're familiar with incredibly brilliant individual hopefully have him on one day um but I was just really paying attention to this part that like how it builds into that superiority and I've heard you speak to how the luciferic karma is armonic meaning we become these like spiritual materialists in many different ways right and so I want to just speak into your your uh feelings about this luciferic inflation this egoic inflation and kind of coming back into balance and realizing that yes it's important to go in this process of knowing who we are but it it exists within the context that we can't stop ourselves from seeing the suffering of the planet and um being of service in the heart of service so I know I opened up a lot there yes yes so I I think a helpful context for this is that you know the Earth plane is in some ways the School of Hard Knocks that we have to deal with a lot of challenges but it's through overcoming the challenges that we develop new abilities new understandings greater strengths sometimes I refer to it as spiritual weightlifting it's like if your physical body lifts increasingly heavier weights it'll get get stronger and stronger and if we are dealing with greater and greater challenges in our physical Incarnation then we can spiritually become stronger and stronger and so a lot of the things that we deal with in a particular Incarnation are related to this in spiritual Traditions they often refer to this as the initiation trials we have to go through now some of these are just things that are brought To Us by our personal Karma or World Karma that we are embedded in or there things that are set up by the tradition themselves that we have to overcome as a type of initiation trial to get to the destination what I want to talk about now though is some of the fundamental types of trials that we will encounter on the spiritual path as we move forward so I've already referenced for example the particular trial or temptation of purification in place which is to do very Advanced Spiritual Development on some levels but not having dealt with some of our own core stuff particularly as it relates to physical Incarnation love and emotion sexuality and then later on it comes something toxic uh but people are seeing you as very spiritual and very Advanced but nonetheless you say these things we're dealing with and of course one of the ways around that that spiritual trial is to never claim too much about our state of Spiritual Development and people come to us and say oh you're so fantastic and all on the one hand I think that we should allow ourselves to feel the kindness and warmth coming from the people expressing it to us because it is a type of a kindness to to express it to us and to make us conscious that we did have an impact on someone that helped them on their Journey that's very very helpful but again we can't take it in such a way as I'm more than or a more advanced or something of that kind that will always become toxic so it's just like sometimes we get into a state in our development where we want to be the ones doing nice things for other people all the time but if they offer do a nice thing for us some like oh no no I can't accept that we have to accept other people doing nice things for us the same way as we want to do nice things for other people because that's how everything flows so we need to accept their compliments and their kindness and reflect back to them what we see authentically with them them as well that we we appreciate but there is the side of this that in not doing the premature purification uh and not pretending that we're more advanced than we are that that directly relates to what you were describing with the luciferic inflation so if I'm giving a talk and I don't want to get into having to describe Lucifer and araman and those things I just refer to to it as ego inflation but it's always a Temptation on the path and this is true both in spiritual Evolution as well as in any other body of work in the world doesn't matter if you're a musician or you're an artist or you're an architect or whatever there's always the ego inflation challenge that will come in but on the spiritual path it's particularly deadly if you start thinking you know I'm I'm the Guru now type of thing first thing people need to realize is that the whole thing of coming forward as a spiritual teacher or a guru or in the sense of the rosac crusan tradition it's really just like a brother or sister on the path and I'm sharing with you what I found and hopefully it's useful but it's not positioning oneself at a at a high level or above others but there's always the the challenge when we are uh doing this work to think that we're more evolved than we are that our work is tremendously Advanced and we accept that appreciation and Kudos from other people in such a way that it works on their naive expectation that we described before that if you have some development in some area you're developed in all areas no you're not developed in any area other than the one that's being focused on on you may be a good speaker you may be a good architect whatever it is but that doesn't mean that you've worked through your emotional sexual whatever other stuff that keeps tripping people up so when we deal with these initiation trials it is absolutely one of the first trials that we will encounter of once you start to get a little bit of spiritual understanding get a little bit of some spiritual sitas these kinds of things that we then present ourselves at a higher level and this has all types of manifestations we have to be careful about so on the oneand one can choose to change one's name to reflect their true spiritual nature and their their goal their destination but we have to be very careful that in that name that we choose we're not choosing something that represents us as a master of a very high level when in fact we're still dealing with some real core human stuff in this lifetime that we're trying to get right so you know taking on certain titles changing of the name to certain things if we're not careful about it it can be a claim to Authority and when you make too many claims to Authority you leave people unfree you got to leave them free the whole thing in the rosar crucian tradition is that you know if you're born Joe lotnik you're just Joe lotnik and people can think that you're spiritually Advanced or not but you're not making any claims toward it so claims to Authority are one part of it a practical thing to be very very careful of uh I don't even make any claims like for myself that I like like I don't claim that I speak for the rosar crucian tradition or like I'm any great rosac crucian initiate I'm a person on the path and I found some things that other people reflect to me are useful uh but other than that I know all the parts of me that aren't developed yet and that I'm still doing all kinds of wacky stuff all the time so that I can develop on my own pathway forward so that that's a part of it another part of it is that if we start making those improper claims to Authority we're representing ourselves as more advanced than we are again taking advantage of people's naive expectations then this will not only hinder our own development it will change the Spiritual Beings that we're connecting with because Spiritual Beings never give their Authority or or their gifts to someone on a permanent basis it's often misrepresented it's absolutely a falsehood when in any spiritual thing they say oh this church or this tradition is the lineage holder of this thing and that's permanent no as soon as someone who is guiding that particular lineage or tradition becomes corrupt the beings will leave they're not going to stay when it becomes corrupt I think this is even true in some of the the Christian traditions that claim like oh we're The Heirs of blah blah blah well hey you lost those connections a thousand years ago through the terrible manipulations that you did in the world so any spiritual tradition any spiritual person can lose the spiritual connections that they had because behind our work is always the inspiration and the support of Spiritual Beings and based on our own levels of integrity and how clean our work is that's going to affect what being connect to us once we start getting more manipulative Etc and believing our own ego inflation we'll get different beings coming in and you can actually When You observe certain people who were very well-known spiritual teachers in the west uh their early work seemed really good look at them 15 years later and they're like a demon it's just like their stuff has become so corrupt their the whole energy in their field has become something very toxic so we have to be aware that it's all a system of resonance what we're connecting to spiritually including the Spiritual Beings that are behind everyone will change as soon as we change that vibration it's never given permanently so I think that's another very important consideration as we're evaluating ourselves on that path we have to always stop take stock see where we've made mistakes because we always will make mistakes it's not like well I'm always perfect and I never make mistake with this being conscious of it helps to not make the mistake but what it really helps with is noticing when you did make the mistake and starting to correct again I don't always see the line until I'm over it and then I got to come back to the middle way so these are considerations not just for people who are spiritual teachers or things of that kind but really for every human being one of the great gifts of the last couple of generations of human beings on the planet particularly in the west has been in a movement toward authenticity that it's okay to represent what parts of oneself are broken it's okay to represent what parts of oneself are still moving forward and not having to claim some artificial form of perfection so I think that's actually a very very healthy movement again it's always a middle path so you don't want to go off the other direction to where you just like constantly ketching about all the problems you have in your life and that type of thing that's not helping anybody but to be authentic about where we actually are and to try to keep it as as clean as possible and not over claim uh will not only make our work better but it will help to connect people to the beings they need to connect to because a lot of times when people connect to us through the things that we're teaching or talking about I try to get myself out of it as much as possible the whole thing about the rosac crucian tradition from the beginning was that we're not connecting through an external Authority you're not connecting through an external institution there's no organization you have to join there are many so-called rosar crusan organizations in the world often set up on the lines of masonic lodges where they have different grades and initiations I have nothing to do with any of that I want to make really clear when I talk about Rosicrucianism my style of that is the original Rosicrucianism where every person is connecting through the column of spirit above the head directly to the spiritual world and to the Spiritual Beings of their team they're not going through any human being or any external institution there may be other Spiritual Beings helping with it but it's not based on going through someone else so it's very important to me that everything that I teach people doesn't make them dependent on me and that I teach them how to connect directly up in their own columns not through me or somebody else or some organization or Institution tion now again there are some organizations institution in the world that's that do have spiritual integrity and if you choose to work in that and that helps you on the path that's absolutely fine I'm talking about my choice I want to be able to go through the prodigal Sun aspects that I need to go through and not claim that I'm not doing that I'm going to make mistakes and I'm going to explore all kinds of crazy stuff uh so don't connect through me you connect directly and that to me is the whole purpose of independent initiation on the rosac Cru and path and so the more I can get people to understand that as one of their options then I feel like I've I've been helpful on that but a lots of times when people connecting something I'm saying it's like that whole saying about when you see the finger pointing to Heaven don't focus on the finger focus on where they're pointing toward because sometimes when I'm talking about a topic this is true for other people teaching spiritual things there is an energy that comes through that's not me it's something of a higher level if I have any integrity that's coming through me at that time don't try to connect to that thing through me connect to it directly but learn through the energy present at that moment what the vibration of it is so you can resonate with and entrain to it and then connect to it directly of the column yeah ultimately I find like a lot of gratitude for when you do kind of steer too far from the line you become aware of it of course it's painful to see how much you're out of balance in a certain aspect or you know it's all relative some people are what maybe I or somebody might perceive as way out of balance is like relatively subtle comparatively exactly but ultimately grateful for that experience because then it it allows us to come back to breathe in that humility to come back into the balance you kind of spoke to a little bit earlier about like our spiritual goal in a way I I would just love for you to share like the path of and the purpose of these energies um weaving giving us different contrast of experience coming back into the finding the middle way and like where we're going to on an individual level before we start to close and talk about the collective I would love for you to share like what are we aiming towards what what is our Evolution path going to as an individual spiritual being in this physical body so again my perception is that when we take the draft of forgetfulness as we started out in the beginning talking about we take the path of forgetfulness and in the beginning was the memory we have to remember who am I now that includes things on what is considered to be the older Ros Cru and path of initiation where there's certain stages or steps and there's one that's called reading the name inscribed on the stone it's connected to remembering the past incarnations now this is very prone to Fantasy and so one of the rules that I follow that is also follow in roseu Tradition is I never talk publicly about any past incarnations because that could become a claim to Authority if there's a past Incarnation that's known to history and you say oh I'm The Reincarnation of so and so I've never seen that go well that that almost always becomes toxic so we don't talk about that publicly but it's something that we know for ourselves and just as something that people can be aware of if you're like because I meet a lot of people who claim to be the Incarnation of the exact same previous spiritual master I won't name any names but they like all say oh I'm The Reincarnation of so- and so I said well I've met 20 other reincarnations of that and I don't know maybe so but yeah like TH or Mary Magdalene or it's always somebody very important oh my God you hear so many of those it's so frequent uh and there's certain things I could have had as a spiritual experience connected to that Force but doesn't necessarily mean that they're The Reincarnation of that entity that becomes a technical topic yeah I could imagine how it's a very subtle discernment process of seeing what you're authentically connecting to versus what that Lucifer conflation is trying to convince you to build more superiority and all that absolutely so one thing that we'll find is that you actually have authentic memories of that thing it's not just look at what a fantastic spiritual initiate I am and what an amazing thing this is those lives were not easy if one was one of the Disciples of Christ you don't remember like how awesome everything was it was tough you didn't have enough to eat it was hot everything was massively uncomfortable you were in danger all the time you didn't know if you were going to get crucified it it's a it was a tough life and so you don't just remember like this type of ego inflation sensationalistic thing it's like the School of Hard Knocks that they didn't have an easy time that was tough stuff so if you're only remembering the good things and nothing about the difficulties of it then that's already an indication it's probably a fantasy projection but the reason we need to remember who am I which includes the past incarnations is the current Incarnation is always the latest bead on the chain with a particular trajectory now there's uh a term that relates to our ultimate spiritual destination it it's from the the Greek theological destination so we have a teologicas everybody's getting magnetically pulled toward what we're supposed to become because collectively every human being is part of the the human race the spirits of love and freedom we're all part of that it's a great thing to put on your business card by the way Dr Robert Gilder gber Spirit of love and freedom and so we all started as like that group and separated out but it's the same idea this is my favorite metaphor for it that all snowflakes are crystallized water so they're all water but they each have a unique geometry that will not be repeated so every human being is crystallized Spirit but we will each have a crystallization that is unique to us and if we fall out of the process of human evolution the gift of that crystallized form will never be made to the whole never be made to the universe so we have the potential and the opportunity and to some degree the obligation to manifest our teleological destination as quickly as possible you know that's what the Buddhists talk about you can take the School of Hard Knox and you'll get there eventually but there's a lot of unnecessary suffering but if you choose the skillful way rather than the unskillful way you can get their more quickly you can suffer less and you can help other people to suffer less cause less suffering to people through whatever crazy stuff you're doing so that teleological destination we need to be conscious of it we need to feel pulled toward it sometimes we don't know clearly why we're doing something but we can feel in our will forces that there's something I need to do now to get there that's uh something that if you haven't Advanced your cognitive capacities in the upper danten and the centers above the head enough when the spiritual impulses come toward you from higher beings they will have to go to the will impulses and you'll get a feeling like I need to go here I need to do this somebody says well why did you do it say I don't know I just knew I had to because it's you don't have enough structure here yet for it to be completely seen so we're pulled toward the theological destination and we need to become that unique being in the universe because everything we're doing right now is a spirit of love and freedom is that we're going to develop this whole field of citas and powers that then as an independent spiritual being we'll be able to choose our pathway in the world we'll be a free agent in the universe with our particular crystallization of these powers that to some degree is unique where we'll be able to help other beings and systems and all kinds of things we can barely dream of at the moment when we reach that stage so that's my view of why it's so important to be clear on who we are why we're here what we chose to do in this incarnation ation I will often tell people the disaster of the current moment is the majority of people are not fulfilling their karmic contract they're not doing what they chose to do themselves before they incarnated because Earthly Incarnation is too confusing and too difficult for them to stay on track it's very important they do what they came here to do in this Incarnation and there's always the side of working on yourself and moving toward your telogical destination and the part of what you're offering in service to the whole those two always have to go hand in hand as we move ahead so powerful outside of the fact that you called everybody listening a snowflake I think we're finding our own geometric pattern in the form of a snowflake but no it's like finding that unique individuation of how God is expressing itself through us is really beautiful and like that's a process of self- creation as much as it is I guess Discovery um and is something that we'll have to sidebar probably for the next time we talk because I'm excited to yeah it's a great top back um just in closing you have been able to study like a various different wisdom Traditions you know from rosicrucian to you know we talked about yoga philosophy and understanding of the kuga to the Mayan calendar all referring to the greater cycles that we're currently operating within right now and the seasons and cycles of Life what do you see as the consilience between all these different wisdom Traditions about what they say is happening right now within Humanity and the cycle we're on this is very much a time of being able to break the old patterns just like with the concept of and of caluga we're able to break some of the old patterns and regain some of our old skills at a higher level like the new Clairvoyance is different than the old Clairvoyance the new Clairvoyance is one that is actually alchemically combined with our logical linear thinking so it can be directed consciously to Targets in a way that before we were just kind of a passive receiver of all kinds of wild information from the spiritual world so it's a it's a new form of Clairvoyance and the same thing with our uh new vibrational Temple science that's generating it's going to have a new flavor a new capabilities and that's why you know along with the spiritual science we teach the vibrational science with Egyptian biogeometry things like that these are very important Egyptian biogeometry is dedicated to creating the new golden age and so the concept of the new golden age I think really comes into play here I'm not sure that it's inevitable that the golden age will fully form because there's enough Free Will involved with our whole development we can never become spirits of love and freedom without Free Will which means the opportunity to not accomplish the goal we need to take that seriously and we've seen it time and time again in human history in the last 100 years the World Wars things like this horrific events that came from the terror of the situation people who did not wake up who did not bother to do the practices to be self-aware and followed these destructive forces that killed millions of people and led to massive suffering this will keep repeating until people wake up I mean this is uh it reminds me one story with gerief where someone uh came to him and they were asking uh about uh well you think you can like uh see the future and like you have this Clairvoyant and you can do all these things well can you tell me what my future is and gie says yes absolutely your future will be exactly like your past until you wake up and I thought that was the best possible response uh so we really do have the opportunity Now to create a new golden age I mean if once we regain our memory of past incarnation this is an amazing Incarnation people can live just at a basic level of income people can live today in a way that Kings couldn't live a few thousand years ago good God our our situation is amazing the ability to travel the incredible release as part of the end of the caluga of previously very hidden information from so many Traditions again as we said before it's fragmented but we have the opportunity to work with it so one thing that I always do my best to encourage people to is you need to wake up and realize this is a limited time opportunity if I was going to make a T-shirt and wear it all the time it would be like life is a limited time opportunity this will be over soon it'll be over before you know it and if you haven't done the work taking advantage of the incredible opportunities we have right now for your own spiritual Evolution and then what you're doing in service to the world that is also connected to one of the other rosac crucian maxims which is that all of the powers the SAS that you gain on the spiritual path will be put toward the benefit of other beings to the service of other beings so even when we're working on ourselves we get closer to our theological destination we can be of more Service as we go forward but this is a time of tremendous opportunity but like the Chinese say with the the term crisis you know a crisis is a dangerous opportunity and that's what we have right now and it's not I don't believe predetermined it's all going to work out perfectly but that's part of the excitement of it because how good would a movie be that you're going to see that's a thriller if you knew in the beginning that everything would turn out fine at the end we don't know that and it's not going to turn out fine unless we all wake up and remember who am I why am I here and what is my task for this Incarnation so beautiful in closing is there anything else that you want to share that's on your heart in terms of people that are listening that want to make the most out of the potential that is the gift of life that has been given to us in the active pursuit of the golden age in the uh uncovering our of our own individuation just any other last thoughts um that you want to share before we close out it's really always a matter of starting the work now starting the methods the whole idea of the observation and direction of your thinking feeling and willing if you understand nothing but that and you absolutely do it you will advance very very quickly with just that but if you live an unobserved life and you don't have the mindfulness you're not going to get rid of all these detrimental things that are holding back your development and I can assure you that when you pass through the gate of death before you expect to and on the other side you look back you will regret not having taken advantage of the time right now you had so much that you could have done but you frittered the time away that's something that we need to take super seriously that it's never too late to wake up and start now Wherever You Are on the path thank you so much yeah this is just like my favorite thing most fun thing that I could be doing with my time is just like diving these down these deep rabbit holes and uh you're such an incredible scholar and uh synthesizer and an articulator and teacher of all these uh Concepts and um so just thank you so much for the work that you're doing I know it's been decades in decades years and years of uh synthesizing a lot of this information down and so um yeah as we close just any other ways people can connect connect with you the work that you're doing uh yeah well thank you um basically it's always a matter of connecting to our website ves.org which is vasen victor.org and that will have the listing of our online courses it will have the any upcoming Live Events I haven't done any live events for four years since the beginning of covid and this year I'm going to start doing Live Events again uh uh and also some of the other initiatives that we're a part of because things are moving very quickly now and getting this information out so we do encourage people to check out the website and sign up for the notices that we send out about the latest events and activities so thank you very much amazing thank you so much and for everybody tuning in please let us know what uniquely um was insightful for you and what you want to carry out in your life I'm just always fascinated by how these conversations become fractals in the world then uh become a ripple effect in how somebody changes you know their life path and how they choose to serve in the world so again Robert thank you so much for coming on thank you so much back in the future yeah and for everybody tuning in thanks for coming on this journey until next [Music] time

Channel: André Duqum

Views: 519,084

Keywords: know thyself, podcast, spirituality, personal growth, transformation, andre duqum, interviews, philosophy, meditation

Id: 6H5LuML6r8c

Length: 149min 46sec (8986 seconds)

Published: Tue Jan 30 2024