Typology and Covenant Membership in Hebrews

[Music] welcome to christ the center your weekly conversation of reformed theology this is episode number 693 my name is camden busey i'm delighted to be back discussing reformed theology and covenant theology more in particular here on today's episode i'm here in gray's lake illinois but i do have a friend with me all the way from amarillo texas we have jeremy boothby who serves as pastor of christ covenant opc there in amarillo welcome back jeremy it's so good to see you yeah good to see you too glad to be back i realized that in many ways uh i'm your doppelganger we both have red beards shaved heads very we're both very white we have lack challenging places for our hair in other places where it flourishes so amen yeah well if you can have you know the beard i'll take it my four-year-old thinks i just shaved the top part of my head so i just let him believe that until he's disabused of that misinformation but um we had jeremy on the program quite a while well not too long ago it's july 17 2020 i looked into the archives and we had a just a really i thought excellent episode jeremy really brought it in a helpful and clear way in which we were speaking about covenant theology in hebrews that was episode 655 and so not quite a year a year ago but uh generally speaking it was and uh got a lot of attention on that episode there were a lot of downloads and got a lot of feedback through twitter and particularly through email so we're hoping to pick back up on that subject today and to discuss more about covenant theology and a redemptive historical understanding particularly of hebrews but this of course overlaps with and interacts with what is often called 1689 federalism and various forms of covenantal theology covenant theology that are espoused by particular baptists our brothers and sisters in the faith uh who in many regards have uh great we have great affinity with on a whole host of issues but yet on covenant theology there are some some key and important differences we'll try to flush some of those out today as we look into these matters covering uh hermenetics covering covenant theology and a system of doctrine that that we espouse so a couple things to mention online or updates just would encourage people to visit christ the center online at reformedforum.org if you haven't done so recently and there you'll find that we have a whole host of things available on the website for free so in addition to the podcast such as crisis center we have proclaiming christ we have theology simply profound we also have now reformed media review which is uh has been putting out weekly episodes for a couple months and along with that we have reformed academy which is an entire section of our website where you can register for free online on-demand courses take them in your own time and we've got some cohorts that are live online discussion groups that are that are gearing up particularly on lane tipton's course on van till's trinitarian theology so we have five courses available through reformed academy we have i last i looked the faculty has 89 courses mapped out so it's a long-term project to develop materials on a whole range of theological topics as well as a whole host of difficulty levels to put those out in service of the church so check it all out on reformedforum.org and if you've got any questions you can send us a note at mail at reformedforum.org so jeremy i'm really excited to talk today i always love speaking about covenant theology there's a course on reformed academy about that and um picking back up on our conversation from about a year ago uh did you get any feedback or or how should we say have things progressed or developed uh how can we pick back up talking about hebrews and the covenant theology they're in yeah there was there was some feedback and a lot of it centers around our our understanding of typology and especially the typology that the author of hebrews gives to us and you you actually mentioned in that previous episode that we we recorded together uh that we might come back and do a part two on that hermeneutic or on that typology and so i'm glad that you you mentioned that because if you understand the the the typology that the author of hebrews is giving to us you really begin to understand our view of typology you begin to understand our understanding of covenant theology you begin to see our view of the nature of the old covenant the nature of the new covenant and how they those covenants what their relationship is between between them and so i think this is really quite foundational to how we understand and work out our covenant theology and boss boss really digs in here and gives us something that i haven't seen anyone else draw out of the book of hebrews and we call it boss's triangle we like triangles apparently you mentioned in that previous episode clowney's triangle yeah and there's some some relationship between them but but they are distinct and it's two different ways of doing typology they're not uh antagonistic with one another they're not inconsistent with one another but just a different perspective of typology and clowney's triangle is probably the more popular one i'd like i hope we can help boss's triangle to be more popular because i again i just think it's absolutely foundational to our typology and you know what clowney does is is give us more of the typology that that paul and peter give to us in scripture and so certainly a scriptural way of doing typology and i think that that's so helpful to us he'll wha what paul does for example in colossians 2 or peter in first peter 3 they they talk about the shadow or something that is the type in the old testament and it's a shadow and it's a shadowing forward of what you find as the body or the substance in the new covenant which is christ and all that he accomplishes and of course that that is we want to employ that that typology well what vas gives us here from the book of hebrews is distinct from that and i think he really begins to develop it from hebrews chapter 10 verse 1. and so so again this will be distinct from from paul and peter's way of doing uh typology vos will say instead of the shadow being the old covenant type and sh and it shadows forward boss is going to say that the author of hebrews informs us that the shadowing is not a shadowing forward but a shadowing down and that it's the heavenly reality is she being shadowed down in the old covenant and so he begins in hebrews 10 1. i might just read that verse for us please no it says for since the law in the law there he's referencing the ceremonial law almost every time in the book when he speaks of the law he's talking about the ceremonial law of the mosaic or old covenant almost every time but certainly here and the rest of chapter 10 certainly will will for since the law the ceremonial law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities it can never be the it can never by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year make perfect those who draw near and so there's there's a couple things going on here in this verse that vos points out number one that you have these good things which are the heavenly reality that will that will become more clear as we move along but the the good things are being shadowed down in the old covenant and then in the new covenant the true form of those things come down of those good things or the true form of the heavenly reality comes down and so someone might ask okay or they might question this and say well okay is vos just kind of pulling this out of nowhere what how do you know this is distinct from paul and peter as a shadowing forward where do we get the shadowing down and he he develops it from other passages throughout throughout the book one of those places for example is in hebrews chapter 9 verse 24 and i'll read that one for us as well it says for christ has entered not into holy places made with hands what's that that's the earthly tabernacle it's the holy places made with hands which the author says which are copies of the true things but into heaven itself now to appear in the presence of god on our behalf and what's important to note there in that passage is that word copies he says that the earthly tabernacle which is the holy places made with hands that that they are the copies and that word there copies in in the greek is the word anti tupa which is where we get our english word anti-type and so he's saying that the earthly tabernacle the old covenant tabernacle is the antitype again that's not what paul or peter would do they would say no that's the type in the old covenant and the antitypes going to come in the new covenant but the author of hebrews is saying no the earthly tabernacle is the antitype it's the copy the antitype of the true thing or of the heavenly reality itself notice christ didn't enter into the earthly tabernacle the shadow the copy the anti-type he entered into heaven the heaven itself the the heavenly tabernacle the true form of that heavenly reality and so that's the anti-time now vos will then point out he'll go back one one more chapter into chapter eight and he'll show us how the heavenly reality is the time he makes a special point in noting that behind an anti-type is always a type there's always a type lying behind the antitype after which it's fashioned after and so uh back in chapter 8 verse 5 we read they that is the levitical priests they serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things there it is copy and shadow of the heavenly things and here's his reason reasoning for that four when moses was about to erect the tent or the tabernacle he was instructed by god saying see that you make everything according to the pattern that was shown you on the mountain and that word there for pattern in greek is tupon where we get our english word type so now the pattern that was shown moses on the mountain that is the type well what is that well when when moses was upon the mountain we might especially think of exodus 24. also exodus 19 but but especially there in exodus 24 the lord descends upon the mountain in smoke and fire and cloud and moses ascends the mountain and enters into the cloud and that at the summit of the mountain is a projection of the heavens the highest heavens the upper register it's being projected down onto earth moses enters that and that is the pattern that is the type after which he is to construct the anti-type or the anti-tide which is the earthly tabernacle and so you see that that's that that's that's very different than what paul and peter are giving to us yeah it's it's probably helpful at this point to remind people who may not be entirely up to speed with some of these things particularly on the upper and lower register but i i would submit to our listeners if you'd like to learn more about this take a look at lane tipton's course foundations of covenant theology that we have available through reformed academy and we have a book a companion book that is complete it's just we're waiting on the cover design and send it over to the printer and whatnot so that that's coming out very soon but the basic notion is that in the beginning god created the heavens and the earth now we tend to think if we don't think critically and that that heaven is just the place where god lives and has always lived but we have to understand that heaven itself is a created place and there is the highest heavens but then there's also the heavens of the sky and outer space and everything we can see so often the bible will speak of the visible heavens but also the invisible heavens and then we think of the earth so we have this kind of really two-layered structure but in a sense almost three if we think about the what's beyond you know the ground but in general in this two-layered structure of the of all the visible creation and then the invisible creation uh we have this this true form that exists in the invisible heavens the highest heavens this is really what isaiah the prophet saw in isaiah chapter six when god opened his eyes he was transported and saw a vision of god's throne room but god created that place it's not as if that's the eternal place that that place began to exist in genesis 1 1 and then god filled it with his glory so now what we see is this beautiful relationship between the invisible heavens and then the visible heavens and the visible earth and how that works out in covenant history and that's that's really uh to catch everyone up what we're talking about what we see in eden for example is not a reality uh sequestered from everything else it's not a a place or a reality that's a one of a kind on its own but it is a replica a projection an earthly version a microcosm of what is true in the highest heavens and so to see identic imagery built into the tabernacle in the temple in a sense it's it is edenic imagery but it's even perhaps more correct to say both eden and the tabernacle and temple had invisible heavenly imagery and this all fits in also with vos's notion of of uh the johannine use of the word true when we talk about the true temple he's not talking in terms of true as opposed to false but as in terms of consummate or ultimate it's the the end point as we see john speaking about that which is true he's talking about the fullness that has come in in and through christ it's not as if anything that had been revealed before christ's incarnation and death and resurrection was wrong but now we have the truth jesus says i am the way the truth and the life and anyone who comes to the father must come through me so that's just setting the the stage here i didn't want to derail us but i want i also don't want to lose people along the way so jeremy you know take it from there but this is such an encouraging thing and and this is the you know the real bedrock and the the basic categories that we need to understand in order to understand what the bible is teaching us about covenants and how god is revealing himself from beginning all the way to to the end in revelation right yes and what you were saying with reference to the true things not true over against false but true uh meaning the ultimate things the the that is what boss is calling the heavenly reality that's that's the true things and so in in his triangle which i think you'll make available for the listeners to look at is point a is at the top of the triangle and that is the heavenly reality and then he'll draw a line down from point a down to point b and b is the shadowing down of that heavenly reality just as the earthly tabernacle was the shadowing down of the the true heavens itself and it's it's being shadowed down in the old covenant which he calls the anti-tide and the heavenly reality as he said was the type according to uh hebrews 8 5. but he also draws another line down from point a again at the top of the triangle down to point c and point c is the true form according to hebrews 10 1 the true form of the heavenly reality coming down itself in the new covenant and then of course he'll also you know finish off the the lines of the triangle and he'll draw one from point b to point c and that's the line really of redemptive history from b to c and that that b to c is really paul and peter's way of doing typology it's it's b and what boss will say is b prefigures point c in other words the old covenant shadow prefigures the true form of it in the new covenant and interestingly enough the author of hebrews will himself employ that same type of typology in the book itself and he'll do what we just described with boss's triangle he'll use that form of typology but he'll also use paul and peter's way of typology and he brings them act both together with the person or the figure of melchizedek and if you notice in in hebrews chapter 6 verse 20 the author of hebrews or i could even back up to verse 19 he says we have this as a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul a hope that enters into the inner place behind the curtain where jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf there's the true form right there there's the heavenly reality itself coming down in true form in the new covenant and then he goes on to say speaking of jesus having become a high priest forever after the order of melchizedek well there's typology as we're used to it that's that's paul and peter's way of doing typology it's saying jesus comes after the order of melchizedek melchizedek is the old covenant type we could say and jesus comes after that order mm-hmm okay pre-figures jesus right then the author of hebrews will reverse that in chapter 7 verse three and he'll use that other way of typology we just were mentioning through vos's triangle and in chapter seven verse three it's speaking of melchizedek and it says he is without father or mother or genealogy having neither beginning of days nor end of life but resembling the son of god he continues a priest forever now it's melchizedek resembling the son of god right because god is the he's the eternal son he is the heavenly reality and now we see melchizedek's being fashioned after him he's the type after which melchizedek the antitype is being fashioned and so he uses both forms of that but it's all over the place and boss will go through other places as well throughout the book of hebrews to show this this other way of doing typology yeah and and just to reiterate what you've already mentioned is these aren't in competition with one another and for to speak of of a more familiar mode of typology in terms of pre-figuration and the the type being an old testament type and then a new testament anti-type being the fulfillment there's nothing wrong with that that is thoroughly biblical encouraged that that is an inspired in the bible we have inspired sermons using this mode of typology yet it's not the only or mode or even a comprehensive understanding of everything uh obviously you can't say everything in one in one sentence or even in one sermon illustration and so to see the author of hebrews integrating this fuller conception is certainly compelling a lot of people uh you know perhaps unbelieving folks have read hebrews to be utterly dependent on like platonic forms and whatnot you know how how do we have here something that's utterly different and predicated upon divine authorship of scripture how are we to understand this back and forth notion of uh in you know in the thought of the author of hebrews and as opposed to him innovating something right well what the author of hebrews is doing is drawing back uh to what you were referring to earlier i think between the upper and lower registers and in showing that even you know with the lower register it's fashioned after that upper register and so he he's wanting to recognize that there is a realized eschatology that is is going to be shadowed in the old covenant and so he's just he's looking at typology from a different perspective and trying to show us that that this eschatology that is there from the beginning is going to be shadowing down in other words coming into time beforehand and then it will uh come fully in the new covenant and that really kind of brings us into to meredith kline yeah uh who's who's so helpful on this uh klein klein has an intrusionary paradigm that he speaks of or an intrusionary scheme if you if those who want to read about it you can look it up in the structure of biblical authority but he's really doing the same thing that vos is doing he just gives gives a different terminology and so this is maybe another another way of looking at it you see what vasco calls the heavenly reality klein calls realized eschatology and uh in the old testament realized eschatology he says intrudes into time embodied by earthly types and so he says something like the pattern of things earthly he's talking about earthly types the pattern of things earthly embody realized eschatology and what he's really trying to show there is that the eschatology that is going to come with christ in the new covenant that is intruding into time and space beforehand in the old covenant and so he talks about it in like shells like the earthly type is like a shell and it's it points forward to christ of course but it's more than just something that points forward there is embodied in that shell the substance of realized eschatology and so what he wants to say is that the grace of christ what he would accomplish and all of the benefits are present that's what realized eschatology is that substance is present in those earthly types to be conferred to the people by faith and so when when an old testament saint comes to that type let's say the sacrifice the sacrificial system when they come to the sacrifice and they look at that sacrifice as a type as a symbol that points them to messiah in his future work and they they come to that by faith recognizing that then that earthly type is able to it becomes a means to confer the grace of jesus christ to them beforehand even before christ has come to accomplish it that's in essence what i think klein is trying to to get us in that intrusionary scheme i absolutely love uh thinking through through this and thinking about intrusion because it's a helpful way to consider some very difficult portions of scripture especially when we get to um you know the holy war aspects of the old testament trying to understand how how is israel supposed to go and kill all of the canaanites for example how does that make any sense well you need to recline on that uh and and read his biblical defense and then see if that comports with scripture which i think it does but in in essence think of a final judgment being projected and uh like being played out in a microcosm in an anticipatory form so it's a it's a window into what final judgment is which is a complete separation of sheep and goats in its utter and final judgment against those outside the covenant and protection and and salvation ultimately for those inside the covenants is drawing the lines there's no gray area in final judgment and that's what we see in the theocracy but that's not the end-all and be-all it's it's merely a copy and a pre-rehearsal in the sense or at least a pre-enactment of what is to come in uh in the end but to speak about this this uh realized eschatology or intrusion in terms of grace as you mentioned uh two very important portions of the westminster confession of faith which are very succinct uh summaries of this idea and if you're looking for biblical proof text this would be a place to go our westminster confession of faith seven five and eight six for uh listeners who may want to follow up on this but if you think about things let me break this down simply how are people saved whether before or after uh the death and resurrection of christ they're saved by jesus they're saved by messiah everyone who is saved of their sins is saved in and through jesus without exception there are no other means of salvation jesus is the way the truth and the life and he is the only name given under heaven by which men may be saved not just new testament but old testament as well so if we can agree on that point which i hope all christians could agree upon but maybe they don't um that is where we start then the question is well how are they saved well they're saved by grace through faith now we get break this down in terms of covenant history and we have people who are looking forward to the work of christ his life his obedient life his death his resurrection and people looking back upon that finished work the completed life his death is resurrection and of course his continual intercession so just to wrap this up we see that in the old covenant people are not saved by a different grace or by a different savior but they receive that grace through different means we often speak in the reformed tradition of the means of grace and and presently we have the means of grace the word sacrament and prayer sacrament we have two in the in the present we have uh you know the lord's supper and baptism but they had a different means of grace as described in 7 5 and 86 of the westminster confession of faith and this this changes everything for people if you start to understand this helps you understand baptism it helps you understand circumcision that the grace that is given is not different between old and new covenant but the form in which it's given is so we have in the old covenant people looking forward to the coming of christ but they're offering sacrifices what the confession calls their their their being uh they're receiving this grace and god is revealing the same grace to them through promises types and sacrifices rather than through the modes and forms that we have now in the new covenant but we shouldn't drive a wedge between the two to say that god has different modes of salvation or different ways or paths paths of salvation or even to go so far as classic dispensationalism and say that god had a plan and his people rejected him and now he's gone to plan b it's a unified plan an organism an unfolding of god's plan from beginning to end but yet we find it taking different shapes or different forms being revealed in different ways in what we call covenantal administrations so jeremy i think that's just tremendous to to emphasize that point of that uh that grace being the same from beginning to end either before or after messiah and then starting to understand what that means for us in our in our present covenant times yes and so here's a distinction between what you just said what we hold to and what you just drew out of westminster confession seven five and eight six the distinction between that and what say our 1689 federalist brothers believe so they would agree that with us that no one is saved apart from faith in christ the grace of christ and apart from therefore the covenant of grace what they do differently is they say that the mosaic covenant or the old covenant or any of the covenants of promise in the old testament that none of those are administrations of the covenant of grace and so the covenant of grace is kind of offering because there's uh promises of it and there are types that prefigure it and those things will build them up by faith in the coming christ but none of those are tied to those specific old testament covenants whereas we say no those old testament covenants are administrations of the covenant of grace they're temporary and they are imperfect but nevertheless administrations of the covenant of grace and so you know the 1689 second london baptist confession of faith they take 7-5 out largely because it's talking about the covenant being differently administered in the time of the law or in the mosaic covenant and in the time of the gospel which is referring to the new covenant and but they do have eight six we both have eight six which is interesting to me and i can't i cannot wrap my head around it and i can't figure it out and i need help from my from uh the federal others i've i've read many many uh 1689 federalists in many of their works and i can't i don't see anyone directly talking about 8-6 and what it means to them i might read that because 8-6 is saying why we believe it is an administration exactly the covenant of grace i mean yeah eight is talking about the mediation of christ but uh seven five and eight six could almost be just combined into one little unit they happen there's a reason they're in their separate places but they're so similar that it it is peculiar that you would retain one without the other so go ahead and read it please yeah to us seven five and eight six are saying the same things but yeah let me read it 86 says although the work of redemption was not actually wrought by christ till after his incarnation yet the virtue efficacy and benefits thereof were communicated unto the elect in all ages successively from the beginning of the world in and by those promises types and sacrifices wherein he that is christ was revealed and signified to be the seed of the woman which should bruise the serpent's head and the lamb slain from the beginning of the world being yesterday and today the same and forever now the interesting the interesting thing about eight six and why we both have that in our covenant in our confessions is uh when looking at that word communicated the virtue efficacy and benefits thereof were communicated unto the elect in and by those promises types and sacrifices those promises types and sacrifices we understand are aspects of the old covenant and so it is then through that covenant that the virtue efficacy and benefits of christ are communicated and that word communicated is not like a conversation it's a verbal conversation that's not what no they're means of grace that's exactly what it means they're means of grace exactly it means confer or communicate like we often use uh in the doctrine of god communicable and incommunicable attributes we're talking about something that can be communicated or conferred like a disease can be communicated to someone else or spread to someone else we mean it in that sense and that's the way the divine cemented and i can't quite figure out the way the 1689 guys mean it because if they mean it the same way we do then they would have to say that it's the old covenant then is an administration of grace it's administering or conferring grace through that covenant but i i don't i need help so please write in and tell us what what you mean by that um in the in the second london baptist confession but if i could bring uh what we're just now stating back to what we were saying bring it back to this triangle boss's triangle to kind of flush out a little bit of of what we're we're saying let's go back to hebrews 10 1 where it says the law again the ceremonial law the law is has but a shadow of the good things to come or that were at that time still yet to come instead of the true form of these realities well that focus in on that word the phrase they're good things the good things which we've called the heavenly reality well the author himself in the chapter before spells out what those good things are in chapter 9 verse 11 he says but when christ appeared as high priest of the same phrase good things that have come then through the greater and more perfect sense not made with hands that is not of this creation so on and so forth so you see there his high priesthood and his high priestly session is the good things it is the heavenly reality in its true form and and that is the good things now that have come but that those very good things were shadowed down in the old covenant and so you know i hear i've heard at times baptist criticized the presbyterians so hard by saying well you brothers are just trying to parallel the old covenant with the new covenant like one for one correspondence and it's like apples for apples comparison and i would respond to that in in two ways i would say number one well that's not completely accurate because we do recognize a difference between promise and fulfillment of course uh there that we do find there to be discontinuity but secondarily and more importantly how to respond it's not that we're trying so hard to parallel these two covenants scripture itself is trying to parallel these two covenants that's what what the author of hebrews was just showing us i mean he's comparing it and so we're not we're not trying to pull this out of thin air we're recognizing what's the hermeneutic that scripture has given to us and we're trying to consistently apply that and use that hermeneutical method as we go on to further interpret scripture so i might make one one more point along those terms and this becomes a real uh sticking point for me and can can kind of get me worked up a little bit we'll try to keep it from taking over the rest of this episode but but if we if we look at what what we've just drawn out with uh the the parallel that we just described and the the shadowing down of the heavenly reality in the old covenant and in the new covenant the true form of it coming out what what the ramifications of that are that what we have in the old covenant can't simply be a covenant of works simplicitor that's an impossibility so there are aspects of that that are true and there is a works principle in the old covenant right just the logical of christ and the covenant of works that he would fulfill sure that's true enough but it's more than that i mean the the heavenly reality is far more than he just fulfilling the covenant of works it's also the fulfillment of the covenant of grace there's gracious aspects that that follow his fulfilling the covenant of works and those things are being shadowed down in the old covenant as well and so it's really not quite a robust enough covenant theology to suggest that the mosaic covenant is simply a covenant of works i don't know what do you think about that camden oh well i agree entirely i i would point people to oppalmer robertson at least on this point if you're struggling with the unity of the covenant of grace his book christ of the covenants is particularly strong at that point early on in the book so i'm very thankful for that i mean obviously in any book of covenant theology they're going to be shades and differences there isn't necessarily just one you know unified secondary or tertiary resource that everyone points to but his book is tremendously strong on looking at the language from old to new and looking at the unity of the of the covenant of of grace even back into its old covenant old testament administrations certainly there's a lot going on but absolutely we see that the the old covenant has to be a much greater reality what god is doing through moses is not merely just giving them some opportunity for works righteousness to re retain their position in the land indefinitely and we we can even know this in many ways just on the way paul thinks and and expresses himself in galatians two through four especially in three and uh romans maybe starting in i mean almost the whole book but especially i'm thinking of portions of two four five and uh then eight one through four seven and eight but basically the law was was never meant to function in its own right but it also isn't just floating out there on its own the law was given but had a very specific purpose but it was to lead people unto christ and then it did its job leading them up to the point of them receiving their promised eternal inheritance as mature sons and i'm using that specifically not to the exclusion of women but as as heirs and that promised eternal inheritance is as paul says very clearly in galatians the holy spirit and the holy spirit is poured out at pentecost in acts chapter 2 and we see we see there very clear indication of this promise being for you and for your children and everyone who's far off there's an emphasis on continuity and the the covenant people of god being carried through so it's not as if everything before it is now scrapped and tossed but it's everything that has come before has served its purpose and now in covenant history we have a fulfillment but it's not to the exclusion of or the um now it's it's not as opposed to saying that those older forms were wrong or bad they they were good they were given by the lord but then now they have led the people to the point where they needed to be much is it much the same way that a tutor or your pedagogue uh you know will raise you up and train you and help you through maturity to the point where you now can receive your inheritance and be someone who stands on their own two feet with their own responsibility we have now people as the author of hebrews says now who are ready for for meat for solid food not for the milk but milk isn't bad but milk is given to babies to children and once they become strong they don't they no longer live on milk alone they they're they're mature and they eat and they they eat full solid food the problem with these hebrews in the that uh the author of hebrews is addressing is they want to go back to the old immature forms but again it's not because those forms were bad or that that they were ever wrong for following after god's word in the old covenant but now those things have served their purpose and they've all graduated they're supposed to have graduated the people of god the son of god exodus 4 is now in a different stage he's supposed to be in a mature stage worshiping and serving the lord in the age of the spirit not according to the promises types and sacrifices of the old covenant right and i think that that um you know our baptist brothers and even some in presbyterian circles who want to think of the mosaic covenant as substantially being a covenant of works i think i think they struggle there a lot a lot of times in paul because they'll they'll look at certain passages and paul and the way he speaks of the law and they they think well you know they might look at everything we're saying in the book of hebrews and say yeah well but look at these few passages of paul we have to take the clearer passages uh to speak to the not so clear and i don't know if peter would recommend that to use paul as the more clear at least in certain places because he is more difficult in some places and i think those are some of those uh more difficult passages but one one one uh guy who really a professor who helped me in reading some of his work really helped me out on this was cornelius venema and he has a couple articles or essays out there that was very helpful especially as as our baptist friends and certain presbyterians would say well look at look at how paul uses leviticus 18 5 for example through in both galatians and romans and you know venomous points out i think really he's drawing out drawing it out of calvin really but that paul's appeal to leviticus 18 5 as as leviticus 85 representing the law so to speak that his appeal to leviticus 18 5 comes as a result of his polemic against the legalistic judaizers who thought that that you know the law was a source of life and a means for self-justification before god and so paul replies by speaking to them of the law in its narrow sense what calvin does called the new delex the naked or bare law and so so paul is speaking of that law in in the the naked law which is to refer to the law apart from its role in the broader administration of the covenant of grace it's never to be uh he's speaking of it narrowly there because they've turned it into that right but he's he's not trying to say that that's its only function in in the where it's since in the history of of redemption and so uh paul is not using those passages to say that the old covenant is simply a covenant of work simplicity he's just saying what can the naked law the bear law do but condemn somebody right that's his whole point um yeah that's how that's how the the law can be both life and death depending on how you approach it meaning if you are regenerate and you have the holy spirit and you approach the law and you seek to do that which the lord commands in the law it's a way of life it's a path of life read read pretty much any psalm and you can you can uh understand that that that the law is good and we should love it and it's the pathway of life but if you approach the law outside of christ if you approach it apart from the holy spirit and you approach it in your own strength seeking either to merit your own salvation or somehow redeem yourself from the sins that you've committed in the past or even from your original sin you will die it the law does not have the power to save has the power to condemn us has the power to convict us of our sin as the power to point us and drive us to christ but it can't redeem you it was never meant for that but it doesn't mean that the law was bad so i find that a lot of times when pulse as you mentioned talking about the law he's especially in galatians he's often interacting with the pharisaical and judaizer i should say misconception and appropriation misappropriation of the law and um you know do we wish maybe we had some clearer language on that that word namaste it would be nice because it gets used in a wide variety but it just reminds us we have to read in context and paul's not anti-law but he's also not a works righteousness guy either yeah and and also with respect to that law uh it was meant for two things vos brings this out in the reform dogmatics is that uh the the ceremonies of the let's just say the ceremonial law or the types with regard to the ceremonial law they really come from two points of view that the lord intended them with two points of view number one as them as demands of god to the people and secondly as god's proclamation of grace to his people and boss goes on to point out that the pharisees the you know the scribes the lawyers uh really the jews at that time leading up to christ had had overlooked that second point they had overlooked the ceremony law or the law itself as god's proclamation of grace to his people and they began more and more to use it simply as his demands on them in a way of obtaining a life and what we don't want to do today is go back and think of the old covenant the same way then that the the pharisees and the in the jews of that day had looked at it as just a means of obtaining life or as a as just a covenant simply a covenant of works but that i think that brings us back to what meredith klein was trying to suggest with a realized eschatology being present at that time apply all of what we were just saying about meredith klein and you begin to realize that there's a real sacramental nature yes to those sacrifices and to the ceremonial law and to all the types of the old testament and that might might kind of okay we can i can put my hobby horse down now and excuse us over but we can we can maybe kind of flush out some of this hermeneutic with those passages that we talked about on the last episode uh you know mainly from hebrews 9 and 10 to kind of to kind of close us out today you know if we go back to hebrews 9 and verses 18 through 22 which is alluding back to exodus 24 that's the ratification ceremony of the old covenant and of course there are sacrifices being made there and we recognize those sacrifices being the shadowing down of the heavenly reality the those the true form of it's going to be christ and the shedding of his own blood but let me read hebrews 9 beginning in verse 18 it says therefore not even the first covenant was inaugurated without blood for when every commandment of the law had been declared by moses to all the people he took the blood of calves and goats with water and scarlet wool and hyssop and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people saying this is the blood of the covenant that god commanded for you and in the same way he sprinkled the blood with the blood both the tent and all the vessels used in worship indeed under the law almost everything is purified with blood and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins so last time we discussed you know the order of the blood being sprinkled and how it was there is a discrepancy between hebrews 9 and exodus 24 you know exodus 24 doesn't talk about the sprinkling of the book um hebrews 9 doesn't mention the sprinkling of the altar there's no reason to to have any problem we can believe both both of them happened but we talked about last time the significance of the blood of the bull or the calf being sprinkled upon the altar first and then secondarily upon the people and that uh that's the old covenant shadow that's the shadowing down of the heavenly reality and that order is significant because what we find in the true form of that heavenly reality when it comes is christ first sprinkles his blood and that's represented by the blood being sprinkled on the altar uh the the people of israel had communion with god at the altar and so it's representing uh for for signifying the blood of the god of man christ himself taking on the son of god taking on flesh and shedding his blood and then secondarily it's uh representing the blood being sprinkled upon christ's blood being sprinkled upon his people and in that order being significant because the true form of that is just what was mentioned christ shedding his blood on the cross offering himself as the sacrifice to atone for sins and then that blood sprinkling his people we see that all you know in a number of places the sprinkling of his blood uh throughout the the new testament hebrews 10 speaks of the sprinkling of our hearts with a pure conscience and the washing of our bodies with water speaking of both the the visible sign of baptism but also what it symbolizes our hearts being sprinkled clean with a pure conscience or hebrews 12 talks about the sprinkling of christ's blood first peter 1 1 and 2 2 jesus christ and the sprinkling with his blood and so we recognize that's a that's a motive a proper mode of baptism we know our baptist brothers are immersion only but these are some of the texts and others from the old testament especially exodus 24 that speak of it as being a proper mode of baptism but that's what we have in the in the in the heavenly reality is christ himself uh sprinkling his own blood in in and upon us upon his people and that's being symbolized in baptism that's so important to understand is our when we're sprinkled with water and baptism that's what the symbol is it's symbolizing that christ's blood is washing us clean it's it's washing our sins away and that's that's so fundamental really in in understanding what it's symbolizing but but i want to continue with hebrews 9 for just a moment because that blood that was sprinkled was not just sprinkled upon the people it was also sprinkled upon the tent itself that is the tabernacle it was sprinkled upon the all the vessels used in worship and and it says under the law almost everything is purified with blood now it's this this is fundamental you have to understand that clearly there's no internal purification going on with the with the tent or with the vessels of worship that purification there is talking about moving from the realm of the common to the realm of the holy yeah that these things were made with just earthly things and they're just common things but by sprinkling them with the blood it was symbolizing that they were moving from the realm of the common to the realm of the holy to make them fit for use in worship yeah and that was being symbolized there of the people too at least one of the things symbolizing is that the people were being sprinkled with the blood showing that they're being made fit for worship they're being sanctified or purified as those who are fit for worship under this covenant that's that is it's not an internal it's not necessarily an internal renovative category of sanctification that we would find in the ordo salutus and that that's that's helpful to understand then what we were talking about last time with regard to that warning passage in the apostate who is profaning the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified we're not that passage is not saying they were saved they couldn't be saved or else they wouldn't be falling away when it's saying that they are profaning the blood by which they themselves were sanctified it's it's again it's not that internal sanctification but rather it is talking about they had been moved from the realm of the common to the realm of the holy they've been they've been they've entered into the covenant and that was that that occurred with their water baptism their baptism as an initiation right moved them into the covenant now they're really already in the covenant by virtue of their profession of faith or if it's an infant by virtue of their uh be being born to at least one believing parent and they're already in the covenant but we do recognize that that the blood or that the water the water baptism is an initiation right it's the sign of the covenant marking them as a member of the covenant and it's symbolizing the blood of christ washing them clean but it but it sets them apart as one who's moved from the common to the holy and so now they're in this covenant and now they're calling that blood which is special and was symbolized in their baptism they're not calling it common they're profaning it right it set them up as not as holy in the covenant just like first corinthians 7 paul says that the child of one believing parent is made holy saint sanctified it's the same word so too this person's been marked as holy in the covenant fit for worship and now they're profaning the blood of the covenant which was symbolized in their baptism so we're not moving in any kind of armenian direction here and in suggesting that this person can lose their salvation and nor are we saying that that by virtue of their baptism that now they are saved as if it's wrong by the by the work worked we're not suggesting any of these things by them we're just saying just as the pots and the vessels in the tent itself move from the realm of the common to the holy so the person water baptized which is symbolizing the blood of the covenant being sprinkled upon them have moved from the realm of the common to the holy and now they're profaning that and i think that was helpful uh for maybe our baptist brothers who don't quite understand what we mean by these these categories or maybe even what the author's meeting by the use of sanctification or purification that it's not always an internal purification right there's definitely covenantal terms uh hebrews 10 hebrews 6 and 10 were so critical for me in in solidifying a reformed understanding of baptism and that might seem very strange to people who are often trafficking in proof texts through acts or something like that all that stuff's helpful too but to understand the biblical covenantal theology you need to dig down deep and then you start to see the way the author of hebrews is speaking and then you start to see that in a whole host of other places as well but what was so significant for me was that passage in chapter 10 that does speak about somebody who profanes the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified now there's really kind of two options you could go in that are not good options one is is um just or with hebrew six but one is to somehow pull away from the effectiveness of the efficacy of the atonement so you could go with a traditional kind of universal atonement view and that christ his blood atones for all people but somehow there needs to be some additional thing that activates it uh rather than a definite or a particular redemption view which you know is full full-blooded five-point calvinism you know that christ actually purchases the through his death the life he redeems his his people uh specifically so as spurgeon says we have in the atonement you know everyone limits it one way or the other you either limit it in its efficacy or its power or you limit it in its scope it's either a bridge that's very wide and everyone can get on it but it only goes halfway across a chasm or it's a narrow bridge that goes all the way over so the particular redemption says the the atonement is unlimited in its power and efficacy but it is limited to the elect and unlimited atonement the the other way around now you go to hebrews 6 and you have all these warning passages and these passages of apostasy and some people may want to read those as merely hypothetical warnings that this isn't a case that could actually happen but maybe it's a speech act or something but the author of hebrews is trying to warn the covenant people so that these things don't happen even though really they can't well when you start to dig down deep you see also covenantal language there that in hebrews 6 and hebrews 10 there is clearly in the mind of the author and and being revealed to us by the lord a category of person that is a covenant member yet unregenerate and for me that changed everything once you can understand that prior to the return of christ prior prior to final judgment so between you know we're talking new covenant era but before the end there is a category of person that can be a member of the covenant but yet unregenerate and we don't hope for that but but we got to understand that within the church there are real members of the church and real covenant members but yet do not know the lord how does how does the lord say at the end as people come to him and say lord lord he says depart from me i never knew you well a lot of people will say well those aren't really members of the new covenant or members of the covenant grace but hebrews 6 and hebrews 10 is talking about people that are at least in my interpretation and that's a great difference here and i'm not here to you know explain or defend all that down through exegesis at this precise moment i'll let you do that jeremy when i'm done talking but that is at least a very um distinct point that needs to be addressed when we're talking with our brothers and sisters who hold to a more 1689 federalist view the possibility of unregenerate members of the new covenant and and that's that's where all the conversations are eventually going to end up at one point or another yeah and so we're saying that the the blood of the covenant being spring that they're profaning that that's been applied to them symbolically speaking with respect to their baptism we're not saying the actual effects or the efficacy of christ's blood has atoned for their sins that's a good point just right but it is symbolized by that that is what's symbolized by baptism and baptism being an initiation right uh marking one as a member of the covenant well we could say people that you know children or just adults who were part of the exodus and came through the red sea they're baptized into moses right but are we saying every single one of them followed in the in the faithful footsteps of moses i mean the bible will often speak about this covenant community and inclusion within the community and then later on talk about either purifying the community or a separation you know to use a new testament language the separation of sheep and goats wheat and jeff it's not as if he's just you know pulling the wheat because it is nearby the church or the chaff away from the wheat because it's nearby it's part of it and and this there are goats in the church there are wolves in the church and i'm not just talking about you know attending a service i'm talking about members of the covenant community they're members of the covenant and we have that overlap otherwise it doesn't make any sense of what malachi 3 and 4 is talking about uh the purification uh ultimately to come of christ who's gonna come and purify his his body there has to be a mix now i mean but it's a it's um it's only a temporary thing until the lord comes and finishes his sanctification right yeah and you mentioned uh passing through the sea and uh that being a type of baptism also but apply the same concept to what we we just looked at in exodus 24. the blood was applied to them right well there's real sacramental nature right what is happening with that that that that type their the earthly type is the blood of the animal sacrifice sprinkling them to which they were to look at it in faith knowing that the coming messiah would would do that work and uh if so then there's a real efficacy of that that sacrament that type that is going on at that time it's the same thing we recognize today we don't we don't want to recognize that it's just a bare symbol but that it wasn't means of grace to the people at that time and the same thing's true with the new covenant with with our sacraments of the new covenant they're not bear symbols either and uh there is a a 1689 federalist brother who's doing some good work on on the lord's supper uh as not uh as a means of grace more than a memory he calls it and uh richard barcelo's is is his name and yeah he's tremendous we love richard he's very helpful on a lot of things right yeah it's really great and and we just want to broaden that not just to the lord's supper but to baptism as well and to all of the types and promises and sacrifices of the old covenant we want to to think of it in the same way so for baptism for example not a bear symbol but there's a real efficacy in which it is a means to confer grace to the recipient but we have to qualify that by just how our confession does in in chapter 28 6 that says the efficacy of baptism is not tied to that moment of time wherein it is administered yet notwithstanding by the right use of this ordinance the grace promised is not only offered but really exhibited and conferred by the holy ghost to such whether of age or infant as the grace belongeth unto according to the council of god's own will in his appointed time so same thing back then as the blood of the the animal was being sprinkled upon them not a bare symbol it was really a means of grace the efficacy of it may have not have been tied to that very moment because there may have been infants there who would be of the second generation right who that would become efficacious to them maybe right then but but for sure later on uh if and when they did come to true faith in the lord and so so it is with us today we we apply the sign to our infants and the efficacy of it may not be tied to that very moment but nevertheless it is a real means of grace to confer the grace of christ to them and the very things that it symbolizes amen can you speak to the issue once more of an over-realized and an under-realized eschatology you've spoken about realized eschatology and uh and this notion of intrusion but there is a great difference here between you know reformed baptists particular baptists and you know us you know more westminster theo theology types and i'm using that in terms of the westminster assembly how how are we to understand these and what are some biblical principles for knowing whether we have over-realized or under-realized rather than just realizing our eschatology sure well yeah in incline as we were talking about earlier talking about realized eschatology being embodied by earthly types in the old testament and then in the new testament or new covenant those earthly types fall away and what we have left is realized eschatology we would want to qualify that i think klein would too most certainly qualify that by saying that that realized eschatology which is what christ would accomplish in his redemption the redemption he would accomplish but we want to recognize that that redemption it's one redemptive reality that comes in two phases or two phases of one redemptive reality and so it comes that coming in two phases is what we tend to call inaugurated eschatology that what he's come to accomplish uh in all of the heavenly reality or realized eschatology it has been inaugurated but not yet consummated and so we we recognize the overlap of the ages the new age and christ has already begun but the old age is still present and there's an overlap between the two and that's why going back to other themes we talked about in the previous episode that we did together on covenant theology that's why we recognize we're in the wilderness age right now of our redemptive journey right because we're walking through the wilderness and the new heavens and the new earth has not yet come just as it was for israel redemption they had had redemption from egypt but they hadn't yet come to the land of rest they had rest from their their slavery to egypt but not rest in the land or the realm of rest in the promised land of canaan and so too it is with us we are not yet in the new heavens new earth and so not all of the features of realized eschatology are completely realized just yet you mentioned being over realized you know we we that takes us back to jeremiah 31 you know that our our baptist brothers would want to say you know a lot of what you're saying sounds good but man that just doesn't fit with jeremiah 31. jeremiah 31 talks about everyone knowing the lord and so if everyone in the new covenant knows the lord well then we can't have people in the new covenant who are not saved who are not elect and it must be a regenerate only community and listen i don't have a different read of that i think if we exegeted out jeremiah 31 us and the baptist would agree it's just about when when is that fully realized when is it fully then will that be jeremiah 31 be fully uh consummated and realized and they're saying now and we're saying no not until we get to the new heavens new earth will that be fully realized and everyone will know the lord we live in an evangelical age in which the gospel is being proclaimed and not everyone knows the lord yet even even in the pews as i sit there under uh well i'm usually the one preaching the word but even if i ever to sit under it you know the person sitting next to me may not know the lord and they need to hear that gospel preached they may be full member they may be members in the church uh they they are part of the the visible church or the formal covenant but they're not a part of the invisible we're not a part of the vital covenant we might say and so we would say they're a little over realized to suggest that that's occurring now the age of the wilderness is an age in which uh people are coming to know the lord and it's also an age where where excommunication happens and people are put out of the church right uh who apostatize uh like hebrews 10 and hebrews 6 suggests and so it's it's a little over realized it's it's saying too much to to think of jeremiah 31 as being completely and totally realized already we're still waiting for aspects of it to be realized in the future uh coming age and we need to because even jeremiah speaks of they're not needing we in that age they're not needing to be any teachers and clearly we're still living in a in a an age and a covenantal era in which we still need instruction and guidance because we're also these wilderness wanderers on our way to our eternal rest so clearly there are other dimensions of that passage as well which indicate that we can't have a completely realized view of jeremiah 31 because it doesn't make sense out of a whole host of other things the church the covenant community is engaged in and is clearly commanded to be doing in other portions of scripture i i have to i have to point out everyone stops at jeremiah 31 31-34 that's not the whole promise of the new covenant it keeps going and i think about verse 38 what picks up in the promise is a land promise we're not there yet there it is so even even our baptist brothers would have to agree that aspect of the promise of the new covenant in jeremiah 31 starting in verse 38 which talks about the land the future land which is you know speaking typologically of the new heavens new earth that's that hasn't come yet so you can see at least with that that there are aspects of the promise of the new covenant in jeremiah 31 that have not been realized we're just suggesting there's more than that there's other things too right we haven't been realized amen yeah we need to recognize that church membership has real meaning and significance it's not just an a visible example of some internal reality obviously there's a difference between the visible and invisible church but being a member of the visible church has covenantal consequences now when the lord returns he'll separate the sheep and the goats and we'll all have the same view of jeremiah 31 and and that's that and we're not going to have any difference with our our uh reformed baptist brothers but in the present day and age there's a mixture and we want to retain the notion that the church and the roles of the church are you know r-o-l-l-s the church membership is is real it's meaningful and that not only those who profess faith ought to be you know considered members of the covenant community and members of the church but also their children for a whole host of other reasons and clearly what we see in galatians 3 29 but also places like romans 9 and all the way through chapter 11 but especially in 11 and also in john 15 which jesus talks about himself being the vine and and where the branches the olive tree of of romans 11 is the body of christ he's the root and natural branches as in jews covenantal members are part of that but if they don't believe in christ they're cut off and unnatural branches as in gentiles are grafted in and regardless of whether you're jew or gentile you could be cut off for unbelief but while there's still time while there's still time to repent of your sins and believe on christ prior to his coming and final judgment if we trust in christ will be grafted in that's a covenantal reality this isn't just some visible game or or illustration that the lord is using this is real covenant significance here at stake and all along the lines of you know the keys of the kingdom etc these are the topics for another discussion down the road but we ought to be very keen and zealous to protect the covenantal significance and consequences of church membership in the visible church and by extension what church discipline means particularly exclamation excommunication as a as a removal from that covenant community but praise be to god and he brings all these things to consummation and completion in and through christ that the holy spirit will work in the lives and in the hearts of all of his elect and none will be lost and that we all will arrive through the wilderness into the new heavens and the new earth our our eternal resting place will worship the lord face to face for all of eternity that will happen but that drama of redemption continues to be worked out in the present age so thanks so much jeremy for bringing this to our attention and doing such excellent work on developing these themes and we'll have to go for a round three sometime yeah i'm looking forward to it amen brother well uh blessings on you and we'll continue to pray for the lord's blessing on uh on your ministry and and uh all the entire church there christ covenant op and amarillo texas you can find them online you can you can no doubt listen to sermons and listen to what's going on with arf the uh association of or the what is it the uh amarillo reform fellowship i knew that everyone remembers arf but amarillo reform fellowship and uh we'll have more links to that in the episode description no doubt and visit us online at reformedforum.org for information on everything we're doing our courses subscribe to the newsletter uh and we'll uh we'll stay in touch and let you know what we're up to but i do want to thank everyone for listening and we hope you join us again next time on christ the center

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Length: 79min 19sec (4759 seconds)

Published: Thu Apr 08 2021