>>> IT IS 4:00 IN NEW YORK. I'M ALICE YEAH MEN MENDEZ IN FOR NICOLLE WALLACE. COURT FILINGS BETWEEN SPOUSE JACK SMITH AND DONALD TRUMP IN THE CAL CASE INVOLVING TRUMP'S EFFORTS TO OVERTHROW THE 2020 ELECTION. THOUGH THE DISPUTE IS TECHNICALLY OVER THE HANDLING OF EVIDENCE, IT'S BECOME A PROXY WAR OF THE EX-PRESIDENT'S MOB BOSS TACTICS. IT'S A LITTLE COMPLICATED, BUT INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT. HERE IS WHERE THINGS STAND RIGHT NOW. FEDERAL JUDGE CHUTKAN WAS ORDERED A HEARING OVER THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT'S REQUEST FOR A PROTECTIVE ORDER. THE RULES GOVERNING THE PROCESS BETWEEN PROSECUTORS AND THE DEFENSE TEAM. "THE WASHINGTON POST" NOTES SUCH ORDERS CAN BE TECHNICAL BUT ARE ROUTINELY APPROVED BY JUDGES TO PROTECT WITNESSES AND GOVERNMENT INVESTIGATIVE METHODS AND PRIORITIES BY LIMITING EVIDENCE BY THE DEFENSE TO PEOPLE AUTHORIZED BY THE COURT. IN ITS ARGUMENT FOR A PROTECTIVE ORDER, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT MADE A NOD TO THE FACT THAT THE DEFENDANT HAS -- PROSECUTORS EXPLAINED THEY WANTED TO IMMEDIATELY TURN OVER EVIDENCE TO SPEED DEFENSE TRIAL PREPARATIONS BUT WERE CONCERNED IN PART OVER TRUMP'S HISTORY OF POSTING ON SOCIAL MEDIA ASSOCIATED WITH CASES AGAINST HIM. TRUMP'S DEFENSE TEAM COMPLAINED THE GOVERNMENT'S PROPOSED LIMITS WERE OVERBROAD AND WOULD LIMIT THE FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS OF PRESIDENT BIDEN'S MAIN POLITICAL OPPONENT. HERE IS TEAM TRUMP PROPOSED. MR. LAURO APPROACHED HIM SPEAKING FREELY ABOUT THE NON-SENSITIVE GOVERNMENT MATERIALS AND NARROW THE SCOPE OF THE GOVERNMENT'S ORDER TO SHIELD ONLY GENUINELY SENSITIVE MATERIAL. THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS HAVING NONE OF IT. IN A FILING LATE LAST NOT, PROSECUTORS SAY, QUOTE, THE DEFENDANT INSTEAD PROPOSED AN ORDER DESIGNED TO ALLOW HIM TO TRY THIS CASE IN THE MEDIA RATHER THAN IN THE COURTROOM. PROSECUTORS ALSO POINTED OUT THAT TRUMP'S ATTORNEY, JOHN LAURO APPEARED ON FIVE, YES, FIVE SUNDAY SHOWS TO DISCUSS THE CASE, ADDING THE DEFENDANT SEEKS TO USE THE DISCOVERY MATERIAL TO LITIGATE THIS CASE IN THE MEDIA, BUT THAT IS CONTRARY TO THE PURPOSE OF CRIMINAL DISCOVERY WHICH IS TO AFFORD DEFENDANTS THE ABILITY TO PREPARE FOR AND MOUNT A DEFENSE IN COURT, NOT TO WAGE A MEDIA CAMPAIGN. THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AND TRUMP'S ATTORNEYS WILL NOW SQUARE OFF IN COURT TO DECIDE THE MATTER, EVEN AS THE DEFENDANT HIMSELF SHOWS NO SIGNS OF BEING WILLING TO OBEY ANY OF THE RULES OF THE ROAD REGARDING EVIDENCE AND WITNESSES. JUST MOMENTS AGO AT A RALLY IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, TRUMP INSISTED HE WILL CONTINUE TALKING ABOUT THE CASE SAYING, QUOTE, THEY ARE NOT TAKING AWAY MY FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT. LET TALK ABOUT THAT WITH NATIONAL INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER FOR "THE WASHINGTON POST," CAROL LETITY. ALSO JOINING US, FORMER FBI COUNTERINTELLIGENCE AGENT PETER STRZOK AND FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL AND FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY HARRY LITMAN IS HERE WITH US. CARA, ON ONE HAND YOU'VE GOT A DEFENDANT WHO IS AN EX-PRESIDENT ON HIS THIRD RUN FOR THE WHITE HOUSE. HE HAS A WELL-KNOWN HISTORY OF ATTACKING WITNESSES, JUDGES, PROSECUTORS. HE JUST SAID HE WILL NOT STOP TALKING ABOUT THIS CASE. ON THE OTHER HAND YOU HAVE A JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WHO WANTS TO ZEALOUSLY PROTECT THEIR EVIDENCE AND A WHOLE SLEW OF WITNESSES. HOW DOES THIS PLAY OUT? >> I CAN'T PREDICT EXACTLY, ALICIA, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. I WILL TELL YOU HOW ROUTINE IT IS FOR A PROTECTIVE ORDER IN THIS COURTHOUSE AND MANY OTHERS LIKE IT. IT IS A STANDARD PROCEDURE THAT YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DO WHAT JOHN LAURO WAS DOING, TALKING PUBLICLY ABOUT THE THEORY OF THEIR CASE, DISCUSSING SOME OF THE DETAILS, THE WITNESSES TRYING TO RIP APART THE GOVERNMENT'S POSITION. THAT IS USUALLY FROWNED UPON SEVERELY TO THE POINT THAT JUDGES TRY TO STEP IN AND STOP THAT. IN THIS CASE, A PROTECTIVE ORDER SEEMS TO MAKE SOME SENSE GIVEN THAT DONALD TRUMP RECENTLY SAID IN A VERY THREATENING POST, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE COMING FOR ME, I'M COMING FOR YOU. TRY TO PUT THOSE WORDS IN THE MOUTH OF A DEFENDANT WHO IS CHARGED WITH ANOTHER KIND OF VIOLENT CONSPIRACY -- FORGIVE ME -- A KIND OF VIOLENT CONSPIRACY. PRETEND IT'S A GANGLAND DRUG LEADER. PRETEND IT'S A PERSON WHO OWNS A MULTIMILLION DOLLAR CORPORATION AND IS CHARGED WITH STOKING VIOLENCE IN SOME OTHER SETTING. IMAGINE EITHER OF THOSE DEFENDANTS SAYING, IF YOU COME FOR ME, I'M COMING FOR YOU. THAT IS SORT OF DEFINITIONAL THREATENING A WITNESS. I WANT TO JUST GIVE YOU GUYS, EVERYBODY LISTENING AT HOME WHAT TYPICALLY HAPPENS WHEN A JUDGE FEELS THAT A DEFENDANT IS THREATENING WITNESSES OR POTENTIAL WITNESSES. I SAT IN A GANG CASE, A PRETTY FAMOUS ONE CALLED MURDER INCORPORATED. IT INVOLVED THE SALE OF CRACK COCAINE AND OTHER INTERESTING DRUGS IN D.C. IN THE 1990s. WHEN THE JUDGE LEARNED THAT ONE OF THE MAIN SUSPECTS ON TRIAL, ONE OF THE MAIN DEFENDANTS ON TRIAL WAS THREATENING WITNESSES THROUGH VARIOUS INTERMEDIARIES, GIVING PICTURES OF BLOOD SPATTERED PEOPLE TO WITNESSES, HE THREATENED TO DUCT TAPE THE MOUTH OF THAT DEFENDANT THROUGH THE ENTIRETY OF THE TRIAL. HE ALSO INSTALLED ESSENTIALLY DEVICES THROUGHOUT THE COURTHOUSE FOR BULLETPROOF GLASS THROUGHOUT THE COURTROOM SO THERE WOULD BE NO WAY THE DEFENDANTS COULD TALK TO THEIR WITNESSES OR THEIR FAMILIES. IMAGINE DUCT TAPE ON THE MOUTH OF A DEFENDANT WHILE HE SITS THROUGH TRIAL. THAT HAPPENED IN THE SAME COURTHOUSE WHERE JUDGE CHUTKAN NOW SITS AND HAS TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT THIS PROTECTIVE ORDER KEEPS FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP FROM EXERCISING HIS FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT. >> I WONDER WHAT YOU THINK, IS JUDGE CHUTKAN GOING TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THE FACT NOT ONLY DO YOU HAVE THAT THREAT FROM TRUMP ON TRUTH SOCIAL BUT JUST TODAY YOU HAVE HIM SAYING HE'S GOING TO SAY WHATEVER HE WANTS ABOUT THE CASE. >> MY BEST GUESS IS YES, EXACTLY FOR THE REASONS CAROL SAID. IT'S COMPLETELY ROUTINE TO HAVE THIS KIND OF ORDER. WE GO TO HUGE MEASURES IN THE COUNTRY TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN TRIALS OCCUR, THEY OCCUR IN WAYS THAT ARE FAIR TO DEFENDANTS, AMONG OTHER THINGS, BUT ALSO WITH JURIES WHO HEAR THE EVIDENCE ONLY IN A SPECIFIC KIND OF WAY, WITNESSES WHO DO THEIR DUTY WITHOUT HAVING TO FEAR FOR THEIR LIMBS AND LIVES, AND THERE'S NO REASON -- THIS IS THE MAIN POINT THAT THE DOJ FINALLY CAME OUT WITH IN THEIR LAST FILING, THERE'S NO REASON TRUMP NEEDS THIS. THERE'S NO FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT HERE. HE'S BEING AFFORDED ALL THIS INFORMATION TO PREPARE HIS CASE, NOT TO TRY TO CASE IN THE MEDIA WHICH IS CLEARLY WHAT HE WANTS TO DO, AND, OF COURSE, IN A SELECTIVE WAY THAT WILL DO EXACTLY WHAT HE SHOULDN'T, POLLUTE OR PREJUDICE PEOPLE AND POTENTIALLY ENDANGER OR THREATEN OTHERS. SO MY BEST GUESS IS -- THERE'S KIND OF A FLAVOR OF, COME ON, CHILDREN, WHERE SHE'S CALLING THEM IN FOR FRIDAY. I THINK SHE WILL DO WHAT IS ROUTINE HERE AND SAY TALK ABOUT THE CASE ALL YOU WANT, BUT DO NOT USE THE DISCOVERY YOU'RE NOW BEING GIVEN TO PREPARE YOUR CASE, AND DON'T WAVE THAT AROUND IN THE PUBLIC SPHERE. YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO. THAT'S NOT WHAT IT'S FOR. >> PETE, I WANT TO PLAY SOMETHING TRUMP ATTORNEY JOHN LAURO SAID ON SUNDAY ABOUT A PROTECTIVE ORDER. TAKE A LISTEN. >> WHAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS TRYING TO DO IS PREVENT THE PRESS FROM LEARNING ABOUT EXCULPATORY AND HELPFUL INFORMATION, EVIDENCE THAT THE PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW ABOUT. THE POSITION OF THE PROSECUTOR IS NON-SENSITIVE, ORDINARY EVIDENCE SHOULDN'T BE DISCLOSED TO THE PRESS. THAT'S SHOCKING. NOT ONLY DO THEY WANT TO VIOLATE PRESIDENT TRUMP'S FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS, THEY WANT TO VIOLATE FREEDOM OF THE PRESS. >> PETER, IF IT SOUNDS FAMILIAR, IT'S BECAUSE IT PLAYS DIRECTLY INTO TRUMP'S OWN RHETORIC OF A WITCH HUNT. >> I THINK OBVIOUSLY THAT'S NONSENSE. IF THEY ARE SO EASY TO GET THIS EXCULPATORY INFORMATION 234 FRONT OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC, GREAT, LET'S GO TO TRIAL, GIVE THEM EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO LAY OUT THEIR DEFENSE AND EXPLAIN WHAT THEY WERE DOING. TWO BIG POINTS, AS CAROL AND HARRY INDICATED, THERE'S NOTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT THIS. HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF JANUARY 6th DEFENDANTS HAVE BEEN TRIED IN THE COURTHOUSE IN THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA WITH SIMILAR PROTECTIVE ORDERS WITHOUT ANY OBJECTION. IN FACT, THE GOVERNMENT PROPOSED A PROTECTIVE ORDER MODELED ON ONE BY A TRUMP-APPOINTED JUDGE. THE OTHER THING IS, NONE OF THIS IS HYPOTHETICAL. WE'VE SEEN CAESAR SIGH YACK START SENDING EXPLOSIVE DEVICES TO HIS ENEMIES. . WE'VE SEEN A GUNMAN WHO LISTENED TO TRUMP'S INFORMATION ATTACK AN FBI FIELD OFFICE IN THE MIDWEST. TIME AND TIME AGAIN WE'VE SEEN PEOPLE TAKING WHAT THEY THOUGHT WAS TRUMP PUBLISHING FORMER PRESIDENT OBAMA'S ADDRESS AND STALKING AND TRACKING THAT DOWN. THIS IS NOT A HYPOTHETICAL THREAT. THIS IS A THEORY BASED ON PAST EVENTS THAT HAVE ACTUALLY OCCURRED. IT ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT IMPACT TRUMP'S FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. >> SPEAKING TO JUST HOW REAL THIS IS, I WANT TO READ YOU A LITTLE FROM DONL'S FILING LAST NIGHT. QUOTE, THIS DISTRICT'S RULES PROHIBIT DEFENSE COUNSEL FROM DOING PRECISELY WHAT HE INTENDS TO DO WITH DISCOVERY IF ADMITTED, PUBLICIZING TESTIMONY OF WITNESSES. SUCH STATEMENTS RISK TAINTING THE JURY POOL WITH ADMISSIBLE EVIDENCE OR HARMING THE INTEGRITY OF THESE PROCEEDINGS. HARRY, HELP US UNDERSTAND THE FEARS OF TRUMP AFFECTING THE JURY POOL. >> SURE. YOU WANT JURORS WHO WILL LISTEN TO THE EVIDENCE AS IT'S PRESENTED IN THE VERY KIND OF PRECISE WAYS THAT WE'VE DETERMINED OVER CENTURIES ARE FAIR WHEN YOU GO TO TRIAL. YOU DON'T WANT THEM COMING IN. IN FACT, THEY WOULDN'T BE QUALIFIED TO COME IN WITH STRONG FEELINGS THAT THIS IS ALL A WITCH HUNT OR THESE PRE-EXISTING VIEWS OF THE CASE THAT TRUMP IS TRYING TO SELL, WHICH, BY THE WAY, ARE INACCURATE. IT'S IRONIC AS ALWAYS THAT HE TRIES TO WRAP HIMSELF IN THE CONSTITUTION. HE'S INDIFFERENT TO THE CONSTITUTION. THE QUESTION IS CAN HE ACTUALLY PREJUDICE THE ENTIRE JURY POOL AND THE COUNTRY IN THE
