Toronto Mayoral Debate 2023 | TVO Today Live

♪ (Upbeat, inspiring music) ♪ ♪ (♪♪♪) >> Steve: GOOD EVENING, EVERYBODY, AND WELCOME TO THE TVO TODAY LIVE/TORONTO REGION BOARD OF TRADE MAYORAL DEBATE FOR THE CITY OF TORONTO. I'M STEVE PAIKIN. WE'RE AT THE ISABEL BADER THEATRE AT VICTORIA UNIVERSITY ON THE DOWNTOWN CAMPUS OF THE UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO. WE HAVE CHECKED THE MOST RECENT POLLS FROM FOUR DIFFERENT POLLING FIRMS AND THE TOP POLLING CANDIDATES HAVE BEEN INVITED TO JOIN US HERE ON STAGE TONIGHT. WE DREW LOTS FOR WHICH CANDIDATE WOULD BE AT WHICH PODIUM, AND HERE THEY ARE. SO LET ME INTRODUCE TO YOU, FORMER TRINITY-SPADINA MP AND FORMER CITY COUNCILLOR OLIVIA CHOW. FORMER DAVENPORT CITY COUNCILLOR ANA BAILÃO. THE CURRENT TORONTO-ST. PAUL'S CITY COUNCILLOR JOSH MATLOW. FORMER MPP FOR SCARBOROUGH-GUILDWOOD MITZIE HUNTER. FORMER POLICE CHIEF MARK SAUNDERS. THE CURRENT BEACHES-EAST YORK CITY COUNCILLOR BRAD BRADFORD. AND THIS WILL BE THE ONE MOMENT IN OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT WHERE WE WILL ALLOW THE AUDIENCE TO SHOW THEIR APPRECIATION FOR THE CANDIDATES. [Cheers and Applause] OKAY, EVERYBODY, DOWN TO BUSINESS, DOWN TO BUSINESS. DOWN TO BUSINESS HERE. BECAUSE AS YOU ALL KNOW, THESE CANDIDATES ARE VYING FOR ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT JOBS IN OUR COMMUNITY RIGHT NOW. GENERAL MANAGER OF THE TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS -- [LAUGHTER] SO IT'S VERY -- OH, NO, WAIT A SEC. MAYBE I HAVE THE WRONG SCRIPT HERE. NO. MAYOR OF TORONTO. THE CANDIDATES KNOW THE RULES THEY HAVE AGREED TO ABIDE BY THEM SO LET US BEGIN. RIGHT NOW, CAN CAN I DATES, THE CITY OF TORONTO IS DEALING WITH A DEFICIT SHORTFALL, A BUDGET SHORTFALL OF $1 BILLION, ROUGHLY. IF YOU'RE ELECTED MAYOR, HOW WOULD YOU DEAL WITH THAT? ONE-MINUTE RESPONSES TO START US OFF. OLIVIA CHOW, THE MICROPHONE IS YOURS. >> Olivia Chow: THE OLD APPROACH ISN'T WORKING. IT'S MADE TTC MORE EXPENSIVE BUT LESS RELIABLE AND NOT THAT SAFE. AND NOT A SINGLE SHOVEL HAS GONE IN THE GROUND TO BUILD AFFORDABLE HOUSING. WE NEED A DIFFERENT APPROACH. I WAS ON THE BUDGET COMMITTEE FOR 10 YEARS AND I ALWAYS START WITH PEOPLE'S NEEDS. WHAT THEY NEED TO MAKE THEIR LIFE BETTER. AND WHAT BUSINESS NEEDS TO MAKE THEM MORE PRODUCTIVE. WE NEED OTHER LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT TO COME TO THE TABLE AND I KNOW HOW TO DO THAT AS A FORMER MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT. I WILL FIGHT FOR TORONTO, FOR A BETTER DEAL. I PROPOSE MODEST INCREASES TO PROPERTY TAX TO BUILD 25,000 UNITS OF HOUSING. AND I'M ALSO LOOKING AT OTHER REVENUE SOURCES FROM VACANT HOMES AND THOSE BUYING SUPER LUXURY HOMES. BECAUSE THOSE FOLKS CAN PAY A BIT MORE TO HELP US OUT. >> Steve: THANK YOU OLIVIA CHOW. ANA BAILÃO, PLEASE. >> Ana Bailão: THE CITY OF TORONTO IS FACING A SIGNIFICANT BUDGET DEFICIT. I HEARD JANET SAY IT, 1.6 BILLION. WE'RE ALSO SUFFERING FROM 46 BILLION PRESSURE OPERATING AND CAPITAL OVER THE NEXT TEN YEARS. WE CANNOT SOLVE THIS WITH PROPERTY TAX INCREASES OR CUTS. IT CANNOT BE DONE. I KNOW THAT PETER WALL PACE -- WALLACE, OUR FORMER CITY MANAGER WAS SPEAKING AT THE TORONTO BOARD OF TRADE JUST A FEW DAYS AGO AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID. WE HAVE OVER $1 BILLION NOW THAT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF OTHER ORDERS OF GOVERNMENT THAT WE ARE DELIVERING. WE NEED A NEW DEAL FOR THE CITY OF TORONTO. IT STARTS WITH THE PROVINCE UP LOADING THE GARDINER AND THE DVP. THEY NEED TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY OVER THESE HIGHWAYS THAT ARE THEIRS AND OVER 50% OF THE PEOPLE RIDING ON THEM ARE NOT FROM TORONTO. WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE USE THAT MONEY TO FIX OUR SERVICES AND TO FIX OUR BUDGET. HAVE I A TRACK RECORD OF DELIVERING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS LIKE I DID ON HOUSING FOR THE CITY OF TORONTO. >> Steve: THANK YOU THAT'S YOUR MINUTE. JOSH MATLOW, YOU'RE NEXT. >> Josh Matlow: I'M ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED THAT WE CAN HAVE A CITY THAT WORKS THAT'S AFFORDABLE, SAFE AND MORE LIVEABLE. BUT TO EXPECT THAT EVEN THOUGH WE KNOW WE NEED TO NEGOTIATE A NEW DEAL FOR TORONTO, BOTH GOVERNANCE AND FINANCIAL. WE CANNOT JUST WAIT FOR DOUG FORD TO COME AND BAIL US OUT AND SAVE US. THERE'S NO EVIDENCE THAT HE IS GOING TO DO THAT. WE NEED TO GET OUR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER. WE NEED TO FINALLY BE HONEST ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE NEED NEW REVENUE. WE NEED TO RAISE PROPERTY TAXES AND PUT IT TOWARD SERVICES THAT ARE DECLINING. WE NEED TO IMPROVE OUR INFRASTRUCTURE. WE NEED A CORPORATE COMMERCIAL PARKING LOT LEVY. WE NEED TO DO WHAT WE CAN WITHIN THE EXISTING CITY OF TORONTO ACT TO TAKING AS ON A CITY THAT NEEDS OUR SUPPORT. RESIDENTS WHO NEED OUR HELP. THE MOST VULNERABLE WHO NEED OUR HELP AS WELL. BUT TO SIMPLY JUST SUGGEST THAT DOUG FORD IS GOING TO COME AND SAVE THE DAY IS DISHONEST, DISINGENUOUS AND NOT REAL. I WILL BE MOVING FORWARD WITH AN EVIDENCE-BASED PLAN TO SUPPORT OUR CITY. >> Steve: THANK YOU JOSH MATLOW. MITZIE HUNTER, YOU'RE UP NEXT. >> Mitzie Hunter: THANK YOU, STEVE AND GOOD EVENING, EVERYONE. IT'S REALLY GREAT TO BE HERE AND HAVING SERVED ON THE BOARD OF TVO FOR SIX YEARS, I REALLY APPRECIATE THE WORK THAT YOU DO AND CERTAINLY JAN DE SILVA BEING THE VOICE OF BUSINESS IN OUR CITY AND IN THE REGION. TORONTO IS DEFINITELY AT A TURNING POINT. AND WE HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS CITY DOES NOT SLIDE BACKWARDS. AND THAT'S SO IMPORTANT. YOU KNOW, I GREW UP IN A HOME WHERE MY PARENTS, MY FATHER, HE WAS A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER. I ACTUALLY WAS A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER AT ONE POINT IN MY LIFE IN MY CAREER. I THEN BECAME THE CHIEF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER FOR TORONTO HOUSING. CEO OF CIVIC ACTION. AND ASSOCIATE FINANCE MINISTER. BUILDING A PENSION PLAN FOR THE PROVINCE. I UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY. AND MAKING SURE THAT THE BOOKS ARE BALANCED. AND THAT'S WHY I'VE ISSUED A VERY COMPREHENSIVE PLATFORM THAT IS GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT TORONTO GROWS AS A CITY, A THRIVING CITY BUT ALSO PAYS ATTENTION TO BALANCE OUR BOOKS AS WELL. >> Steve: MARK SAUNDERS, YOU ARE UP NEXT. >> Mark Saunders: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME HERE AT TVO AND WHAT A GREAT CITY IT IS. I LOVE THIS CITY SO MUCH. GIVING ME THE OPPORTUNITY, FIRST GENERATION CANADIAN TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO RUN FOR MAYOR. YOU KNOW, CONTROLLING $65 BILLION IS A CRITICAL RESPONSIBILITY. AND WHAT THE RESIDENTS ARE DESERVE SOMETHING TO MAKE SURE THAT THE DELIVERY OF SERVICE IS RIGHT THERE. AND THE QUESTION, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT VALUE FOR DOLLARS HAS NEVER BEEN ASKED. SO MAKING SURE WE MEASURE OUTCOMES IS KEY AND CRITICAL AND THAT IS NOT HAPPENING. BEING THE LEADER COMES FROM EXPERIENCE. HAVING RESPONSIBILITY OF A BILLION DOLLAR BUDGET FOR FIVE YEARS, 7,400 PEOPLE UNDERNEATH MY LEADERSHIP I HAVE THE EXPERIENCE KNOWING WHAT TO DO, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE A 0% INCREASE ON THE BUDGET. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT BUDGET, IF WE'RE GOING TO ASK MISS CHOW ABOUT FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY I WILL TELL YOU RIGHT NOW GRAB YOUR POPCORN BECAUSE YOU WILL NEVER HEAR ABOUT HOW MUCH OF AN INCREASE ON TAXES BUT I WILL HELP YOU OUT. IN 1997 WHEN SHE WAS COUNCILLOR SHE SAID HUGE TAX INCREASES OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. >> Steve: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. TO BE CONTINUED. BRAD BRADFORD, YOUR ONE MINUTE, PLEASE. >> Brad Bradford: THANKS VERY MUCH, STEVE. AND, YOU KNOW, JAN DE SILVA OUTLINED IT BRILLIANTLY OFF THE TOP: TORONTO IS FACING A MASSIVE FISCAL CHALLENGE. $1 BILLION IN THE BUDGET THIS YEAR AND A BILLION DOLLAR GAP NEXT YEAR. WE NEED REAL LEADERSHIP AND WE HAVE TO BE HONEST ABOUT THE CHALLENGES FACING LOCAL GOVERNMENT. AND AS YOUR MAYOR, I WILL GET OUR FISCAL FINANCES IN ORDER. WORKING WITH COUNCIL AND A MANDATE FROM THE PEOPLE OF TORONTO, I WILL SET POWERS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY DELIVERING VALUE FOR MONEY. THERE ARE MANY EXAMPLES WHERE THE CITY ENDS UPHOLDING THE BAG FOR THE PROVINCE AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. WE DO A LOT OF HEAVY LIFTING. WE NEED TO GET DOLLARS FOR THOSE SERVICES THAT WE'RE DELIVERING. BUT THE CITY ALSO NEEDS TO GET ITS FISCAL HOUSE IN ORDER AS WELL. TO START, WE CAN SAVE TORONTO TAXPAYERS AT LEAST $200 MILLION A YEAR BY MOVING FORWARD WITH OPEN TENDERING. OPEN TENDERING FOR OUR BIGGEST CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS IN THE CITY ALLOWING MORE WORKERS TO BID ON THOSE PROJECTS GET THOSE JOBS DONE FASTER AND SAVE $200 MILLION FOR TAXPAYERS. >> Steve: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND NOW THE RULES PROVIDE FOR NINE MINUTES AS THE CLOCK INDICATES, A SORT OF OPEN DEBATE AMONG YOU. ANA BAILÃO, YOU GET THE FIRST OPPORTUNITY. OPEN TENDERING, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT IDEA? >> Ana Bailão: I THINK WE SHOULD NOT HAVE THE SAVINGS THAT DOESN'T EXIST. STAFF REPORT WAS VERY CLEAR ON SAYING WHAT SAVINGS WERE ALLOWED. BUT THESE SAVINGS ON THE BACK OF WORKERS -- AND LET ME TELL YOU, FROM A DAUGHTER OF A CONSTRUCTION WORKER THAT ALMOST DIED ON THE CONSTRUCTION SITE, I KNOW THE IMPACT OF HEALTH AND SAFETY. I KNOW THE IMPACT OF WHAT ACTUALLY A UNION MEANS FOR A FAMILY IN A TOUGH SITUATION. AND WHAT THAT COULD COST IF WE DIDN'T HAVE THAT SUPPORT. AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S GOING TO COST US A LOT MORE. I KNOW FIRSTHAND FROM LIVEDDED EXPERIENCE AND I WILL ALWAYS STAND WITH WORKERS. >> Brad Bradford: THIS IS A FALLACY. >> Ana Bailão: IT'S NOT A FALLACY. I CAN TELL YOU IT'S NOT A FALLACY. I SHOW YOU THE REPORT FROM MY DAD'S ACCIDENT. >> Brad Bradford: WE ACTUALLY NEED TO TREAT ALL WORKERS EQUALLY. THERE ARE MANY MEN AND WOMEN WHO WORK VERY HARD IN THE CONSTRUCTION AND TRADES BUILDING PROJECTS ALL ACROSS THIS PROVINCE. THE CITY OF TORONTO IS THE ONLY CITY IN ONTARIO THAT RUNS A CLOSED SHOP. AND WHAT WE HAVE. >> Ana Bailão: AND YOU VOTED FOR IT. >> Brad Bradford: WHAT WE HAVE SEEN SINCE OPEN TENDERING IS EVERY OTHER MUNICIPALITY IN ONTARIO. >> Ana Bailão: AND YOU VOTED FOR IT. >> Brad Bradford: DOUBLE DIGITS, HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF SAVING IN THE CITY OF HAMILTON THEY SAVED 21%. SO IF WE WERE TO DO THAT HERE IN TORONTO THAT'S $200 MILLION THAT COULD BE SAVED. AND I WOULD JUST SAY WITH THE FINANCIAL CHALLENGES IN FRONT OF US, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CREATE MORE JOBS FOR PEOPLE, MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR WORKERS, BUILD THE INFRASTRUCTURE FASTER AND SAVE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON AN ANNUAL BASIS FOR TAXPAYERS. >> Steve: MARK SAUNDERS? >> Mark Saunders: HERE WE ARE ENTERING THE FORM OF POLITICAL TALK. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GETTING LISTENING TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE GREAT SCHEMES AND IDEAS WHILE SITTING IN OFFICE THEY DID NOTHING. THEY SHOULD NOT BE TALKING ABOUT WHAT THEY WILL DO. THEY SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT WHAT THEY DID DO AND THEY PUTS IN THE SITUATION. Mr. BRADFORD IS FLIP FLOPPING. HE ALREADY VOTED CLOSED NOW BECAUSE IT'S MAYORAL RACE HE SAYS OPEN. YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE LEADERSHIP TO PRIORITIZE THE NEEDS AND WANTS PRIORITIZED BY THE CITIZENS' NEEDS. I CAN TELL YOU RIGHT NOW AFFORDABILITY IS NUMBER ONE. BUILDING HOMES IS NUMBER TWO. AND NOT TAXING LIKE MISS CHOW WANTS TO DO. YOU WILL NEVER HEAR THE PERCENTAGE OF INCREASE. MY PROPOSAL IS NOT TO GO ABOVE THE RATE OF INFLATION BUT SHE WILL NOT ANSWER THAT QUESTION. >> Steve: LET ME GIVE BRAD BRADFORD 20 SECONDS TO RESPOND TO THAT THEN MITZIE HUNTER, JOSH, THEN Ms. CHOW. >> Mark Saunders: I WOULD SAY IT'S. >> Brad Bradford: WHEN THIS CITY WAS THIS CRISIS THIS GUY WALKED AWAY. YOU CAN'T BE THE LEADER OF TORONTO IF YOU ARE ACQUITTER THAT IS A DISQUALIFIER. >> Steve: STAND BY I HAVE TO GIVE THE FORMER CHIEF A CHANCE TO RESPOND TO THAT. >> Mark Saunders: WHAT Mr. BRADFORD IS NOT UNDERSTANDING IS THAT 60 YEARS OF AN UPHILL JOURNEY AS AN IMMIGRANT. 38 YEARS OF SERVICE. SAVING LIVES AND DOING WHAT WAS NECESSARY. THAT IS LEADERSHIP. I WENT THROUGH A FULL CONTRACT. MET MY NEEDS, SIGNED ANOTHER. >> Steve: STAND BY. >> Mark Saunders: I SAID VERY PUBLICLY FAMILY FIRST. I HAVE VALUES AND WHEN IT COMES TO FAMILY THEY WILL ALWAYS BE FIRST WHICH IS WHY I HAVE MY WIFE'S HE KIDNEY RIGHT HERE. BUT LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING IT'S NICE TO HEAR THE SUGGESTION WHEN HE WAS IN THE SEAT HE TOOK THE HOUSING PLATFORM ON NOW IT STINKS. HE PUT HIS HAND UP AND RAN INTO THAT SEAT. >> Brad Bradford: THAT'S NOT TRUE. >> Mark Saunders: WHICH Mr. BRADFORD DO WE HAVE TODAY? I'M NOT SURE WHICH ONE YOU ARE. >> Steve: 20 SECONDS. >> Brad Bradford: THIS IS FUNNY. I'VE BEEN THE CHAIR OF PLANNING AND HOUSING FOR THE PAST FIVE MONTHS AND WE'VE DONE MORE IN FIVE MONTHS THAN HAS TAKEN PLACE IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS. LEGALIZING MULTIPLEX, BRINGING MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR MORE PEOPLE TO LIVE IN MORE NEIGHBOURHOODS. THIS ULTIMATELY GOING TO BE A CONVERSATION ABOUT AFFORDABILITY IN THE CITY. WE NEED MORE HOUSING OPTIONS FOR PEOPLE. WE NEED IT DONE FASTER. >> Steve: WE WILL TALK MORE ABOUT THIS IN A SECOND. >> Brad Bradford: THAT'S WHY PRACTICAL SOLUTIONS -- >> Steve: MITZIE HUNTER, THE FLOOR IS YOURS. >> Mitzie Hunter: THANK YOU. THE JOB THAT WE'RE RUNNING FOR IS AS MAYOR OF THE CITY. WHAT I WANT TO DO IS LEAD THE REVIVAL OF TORONTO AS A CITY THAT WORKS FOR EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE. SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING, HAVE I A ARE PLAN TO BUILD 22,000 UNITS OF AFFORDABLE, BELOW AVERAGE RENT UNITS FOR FAMILIES, TWO AND THREE BEDROOM UNITS. HAVE I A PLAN WITH TTC MAKING SURE THAT WE ACTUALLY REVERSE THE DEATH SPIRAL OF LOWERING SERVICE AND RAISING FARES. I WANT TO REVERSE THAT. I WANT TO PRIORITIZE THE CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS THAT WE NEED TO BUILD OUT OUR TRANSIT SYSTEM. FROM DOWNSVIEW ALL THE WAY TO SCARBOROUGH. TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE CAN GET AROUND OUR CITY AND THAT WE CAN BUILD UP OUR CITY FOR ALL OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE COMING HERE WHO WILL WANT TO COME HERE AND LIVE IN OUR CITY. I WANT TO MAKE SURE SERVICES ARE PAID FOR. WE WANT TO GET RID OF THE POT HOLES AND UNBLOCK THE CONGESTION AND CLEAR THE SNOW WHEN IT'S NEEDED. AND FINALLY THAT WE HAVE A VIBRANT AND BEAUTIFUL CITY. TO DO THAT WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE A BUDGET THAT IS TRANSPARENT AND THAT'S WHAT I PRESENTED. MAKING SURE THAT THERE'S REASONABLE PROPERTY TAXES, 6% WHICH IS JUST 0.5% ABOVE WHAT THE CITY HAS ALREADY APPROVED FOR THIS YEAR. AND FOR THOSE WHO ARE $80,000 A YEAR AND BELOW IN TERMS OF INCOME, FAMILY INCOME, IT'S 3%. BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THERE IS AFFORDABILITY ISSUES ACROSS THIS CITY. SO WE NEED A PLAN AND -- >> Steve: THE ORIGINAL QUESTION WAS OPEN TENDER AND OLIVIA CHOW I WANT TO GIVE YOU A CHANCE TO SPEAK TO THAT. ARE YOU FOR OR AGAINST THAT? >> Olivia Chow: I'M AGAINST IT. BUT I'M THINKING OF PEOPLE THAT DON'T EVEN HAVE THAT KIND OF OPPORTUNITY. I KNOW OF A PERSON WHO JUST GRADUATED FROM UNIVERSITY. AND SHE PAYS DAHLIA PAYS $1,600 FOR A BASEMENT ROOM. AND SHARED WITH TWO OTHER PEOPLE. HER RENT IS $1,600. BY THE END OF THE MONTH, THERE'S NOTHING LEFT. AND SHE SAYS SHE CAN'T EVEN AFFORD FRESH FRUIT AND VEGETABLES. AND ALSO CANNED SOUP ITSELF, SHE CAN'T AFFORD. AND THAT IS SERIOUS PROBLEM. WHAT WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT MONEY IS WHAT THE CITY -- WHAT THE PEOPLE NEED. PEOPLE NEED HOUSING. PEOPLE NEED BETTER TRANSIT. PEOPLE -- BUSINESS NEEDS TALENTS TO COME AND STAY HERE, BECAUSE SHE'S THINKING MAYBE SHE'S AMERICAN-CANADIAN, ALSO. SHE MIGHT GO BACK TO THE STATES BUT DOESN'T WANT TO DO THAT. WE NEED TO KEEP OUR PEOPLE HERE AND HOUSING AFFORDABILITY, BETTER TRANSIT, IS WHAT WE NEED. >> Steve: OKAY, A REMINDER THE ORIGINAL QUESTION IS ABOUT THE $1 BILLION SHORTFALL HERE SO JOSH MATLOW, COME ON IN YOU HAVEN'T SPOKEN YET. >> Josh Matlow: I CERTAINLY WOULD NOT GO WITH BRAD BRADFORD'S SUGGESTION THAT WE NEED TO START THROWING OUR OWN WORKERS UNDER THE BUS. THAT'S NOT HOW LEADERS OPERATE. WE LIVE IN IN AN UNAFFORDABLE CITY FOR FAR TOO MANY PEOPLE. WE NEED TO LIFT PEOPLE UP. WE NEED PUBLIC -- OUR PUBLIC BUILT TORONTO PLAN THAT I'VE ANNOUNCED START TO ACTUALLY MOVE ON A PROJECT THAT WOULD SEE AFFORDABLE, DEEPLY AFFORDABLE HOUSING WITH RENT CONTROL BUILT ON OUR PROPERTIES. HOUSING NOW IS AFAILURE. THERE'S NOT A SINGLE SHOVEL IN THE GROUND AFTER SIX YEARS. HAVE I AN ACTUAL PLAN TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT. WE NEED RENTAL PATHWAYS TO HOUSING. WE NEED SUBSTANTIVE, REAL WAYS TO HELP PEOPLE. SO WHEN I HEAR THE SORT OF RHETORIC AROUND THE EASY WINS, LIKE HEY EVERYONE IS GOING TO WIN IF WE DO SMART TRACK OR SOMETHING, IT'S NOT REAL AND WE'VE GOT TO STOP THAT. THAT'S WHY WE'RE IN TROUBLE NOW. >> Steve: WE'VE GOT A MINUTE LEFT IN THE ROUND. 30 TO YOU FIRST AND 30 TO BRAD BRADFORD. >> Ana Bailão: I JUST WANT TO GO BACK TO FISCAL SUSTAINABILITY. THAT IS THE QUESTION TO HAVE A GREAT CITY AND THE ANSWER IS WHO'S GOING TO BE THE BEST CANDIDATE TO NEGOTIATE THE BEST DEAL? WHO HAS THE EXPERIENCE AT CITY HALL OF WORKING THERE, WHO HAS THE RELATIONSHIPS AT COUNCIL, WHO HAS A TRACK RECORD OF DELIVERING WITH THE PROVINCIAL AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. THAT IS THE QUESTION THAT WE NEED TO ANSWER. WE NEED TO ANSWER, IS IT SOMEBODY WHO HAS BEEN AN AN IN OFFICIAL OPPOSITION OR Dr. NO WHO SAYS NO TO EVERYTHING? OR IS GOING TO BE SOMEBODY THAT IS GOING TO STAND UP AND BRING PRAGMATIC OPTIONS. >> Steve: BRAD BRADFORD. >> Brad Bradford: THE REAL QUESTION IS WHY WOULDN'T PEOPLE SUPPORT OPEN TENDER? WHY WOULDN'T YOU SUPPORT A MORE COMPETITIVE PROCESS TO BRING MORE GOOD JOBS. [Overlapping Discourse] WITH OUR FAIR WAGE PROCESS. >> Ana Bailão: YOU HAVE TO ENSURE LABOUR RIGHTS. >> Brad Bradford: WE ARE, WE'RE BRINGING $200 MILLION OF SAVINGS EVERY YEAR. IT'S ABOUT AFFORDABILITY. [Overlapping Discourse] . >> Mitzie Hunter: IT'S A NEGOTIATED AGREEMENT. >> Steve: YOU WILL HAVE LOTS OF TIME TO GET INTO THESE. >> Josh Matlow: THERE IS A REASON WE WON'T SUPPORT THAT AND IT'S A GOOD ONE. >> Steve: HOMELESSNESS, HIGH RENTINGS, LOTS TO DISCUSS TONIGHT UNDER THE HEADING OF SHELTER. ANA BAILÃO YOU GET THE FIRST OF THE ONE-MINUTE RESPONSES TO TALK ABOUT SOME IDEAS YOU HAVE AS IT RELATES TO SHELTER. YOU'RE ON. >> Ana Bailão: I LEAVE IN A HOUSING-FIRST APPROACH AND EVERYBODY HAVE THE DIGNITY OF HOUSING. BUT RIGHT NOW WE NEED TO DO THREE THINGS TO DEAL WITH OUR SHELTER SITUATION. WE NEED TO PREVENT PEOPLE FROM FALLING INTO HOMELESSNESS. THAT'S WHY MY PLAN WILL TRIPLE THE AMOUNT OF FUNDS IN THE RENT BANK. THAT'S WHY I WILL CREATE AN ANTI-DISPLACEMENT UNIT TO HELP RENTERS FIGHT RENO-VICTION. THAT'S WHY MY PLAN HAS MONEY TO HELP SHELTERS WITH SOME OF THE ISSUES WE'RE DEALING WITH AS WELL. STAFFING AS WELL. IT HAS $5 MILLION FOR VICTIMS OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND I WANT TO WORK WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO DEAL A A NEW STREAM TO HELP REFUGEES THAT OCCUPY ONE THIRD OF THE PEOPLE IN OUR SHELTERS, AS WELL. AND ULTIMATELY, THE REAL SOLUTION WE NEED TO BUILD SUPPORTIVE HOUSING. AND THAT IS WHY I WILL BE DOUBLING THE AMOUNT OF MODULAR SUPPORTIVE HOUSING WHICH IS A KIND OF CONSTRUCTION THAT CAN BE DONE A LOT QUICKER. I'VE DONE DID IN IN -- DONE IT IN MY COMMUNITY. 44 APARTMENTS THAT WE BUILT IN SIX MONTHS. >> Steve: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, JOSH MATLOW, A MINUTE TO YOU, PLEASE. >> Josh Matlow: HOUSING SHELTER HAS TO BE HOLISTIC AND HAVE I A PLAN THAT ADDRESSES THE RIGHT FOR EVERYONE IN OUR CITY TO HAVE A ROOF OVER THEIR HEAD. WHETHER THEY'RE AN OLDER ADULT AND WANT TO AGE IN PLACE. THEY MIGHT BE HOUSE RICH BUT POOR BECAUSE THEIR PENSION ISN'T KEEPING UP WITH INFLATION AND THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO SEPARATE THE UNITS IN THEIR HOUSE TO BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY HAVE THEIR KIDS LIVE IN ONE AND SOMEBODY ELSE TO BE ABLE TO SUPPLEMENT THEIR INCOME. TO HAVE EVERYONE BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO LIVE IN THE NEIGHBOURHOOD. TO YOUNG PEOPLE WHO WANT A HOME IN THIS CITY AND THEY CAN'T EVEN AFFORD TO LIVE IN THE NEIGHBOURHOOD THAT THEY WERE RAISED IN. TO PEOPLE WHO ARE IN OUR PARKS AND IN OUR STREETS AND YOU HEARD FROM THE LAST ADMINISTRATION AND OTHERS THAT IT WAS FINE TO VIOLENT AAND INHUMANELY REMOVE THEM TO PUT THEM INTO SAFE INDOOR SPACES WHEN THEY WERE TELLING US IF WE REALLY LISTEN TO THEM THAT THEY DIDN'T FEEL SAFE IN THOSE SHELTERS. WE NEED TO INCREASE CAPACITY. WE NEED BETTER ENVIRONMENTS IN OUR SHELTERS THAT HAVE INTEGRITY AND RESPECT. >> Steve: THAT'S YOUR TIME. MITZIE HUNTER, YOU'RE UP NEXT. >> Mitzie Hunter: YOU KNOW, I GREW UP NEAR KENNEDY AND 401. AND THERE'S A HOTEL THERE. I VISITED RECENTLY AND INSIDE IT HAS BECOME A TEMPORARY SHELTER, 450 PEOPLE LIVE THERE. THE MAJORITY ARE ELDERLY. AND THAT'S THE REALITY. IS THAT WE ARE HOUSING PEOPLE TEMPORARILY IN HOTELS AT GREAT COST. IT'S OVER $300 MILLION TO THE CITY BUDGET. WHAT I WANT TO DO IN MY PLAN WHICH HAS BEEN PRESENTED, IT'S FULLY COSTED IS TO PROVIDE TRANSITIONAL HOUSING SO THAT PEOPLE CAN MOVE INTO SUPPORTIVE HOUSING WITH MENTAL HEALTH AND WRAP AROUND SUPPORTS. OUR SHELTER SYSTEM IS OVERFLOWING. PEOPLE ARE LIVING IN PARKS, ON TRANSIT AND ROUGH ON THE STREETS. AND SO I WANT TO ADD 400 SHELTER BEDS SO WE CAN EASE THAT TRANSITION INTO PERMANENT HOUSING. MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORTS IS ALSO ESSENTIAL FOR -- THANK YOU. MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORTS ARE ALSO ESSENTIAL. SO PEOPLE GET THE WRAP AROUND CARE AND SUPPORT THAT THEY NEED. WE HAVE A RISE IN ADDICTIONS AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE, PARTICULARLY SINCE THE PANDEMIC SO WE HAVE TO DO THIS. BAY STREET NEEDS TO SUPPORT THESE PROGRAMS. >> Steve: I GAVE YOU FIVE EXTRA SECONDS BECAUSE THE POST-ITS FELL ON THE FLOOR BUT WE'RE ALL EVEN NOW. MARK SAUNDERS, NOW TO YOU. >> Mark Saunders: THE ROOT CAUSE OF THIS IS SUPPLY. FRONT AND CENTRE, SUPPLY. AND CITY GOVERNMENT HAS LET US DOWN. WHEN WE FOLLOW HISTORY AND WE KNOW THAT THE AVERAGE PURPOSE-BUILT RENTAL, 90% OF PURPOSE-BUILT RENTALS ARE OVER 40 YEARS OLD, EVERYBODY KNEW THIS. YET NOBODY ADDRESSED IT. WE HAVE TO BUILD AND WE HAVE TO BUILD NOW. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT A PLAN AND LOOK AT THE PROCESS WHICH NO ONE HERE IS GOING TO ADAPT TO BECAUSE THEY LET IT HAPPEN. THE PROCESS DOES NOT INVITE BUILDERS TO COME IN. THE PROCESS RIGHT NOW ON AVERAGE IS 3 TO 5 YEARS. MY PLAN INVOLVES MAKING APPROVALS GO THROUGH WITHIN A YEAR, HAVING A NAVIGATOR FOLLOW IT TO ENSURE, MEASURING CITY HALL AND MEASURING BUILDERS TO MAKE SURE THERE'S PROPER ACCOUNTABILITY AND MAKING SURE AT THE END OF THE DAY WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BUILD. WHEN WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE SAYING THAT THEY'RE GOING TO CREATE THEIR OWN PLAN AN OUT SMART, THEY'RE WRONG. GOVERNMENT'S RESPONSIBILITY IS TO CREATE THE ENVIRONMENT AND IT'S UP TO THE BUILDERS TO HAVE THE ENVIRONMENT TO BUILD IF THAT DOESN'T WORK WE'RE IN THIS FOR A LONG TIME. >> Steve: THANK YOU MARK SAUNDERS. BRAD BRADFORD TO YOU. >> Brad Bradford: JUST A FEW SHORT YEARS AGO THE CITY OF TORONTO HAD 6,000 SHOULDER BEDS. NOW WE HAVE 9,000. THEY'RE ALWAYS 99% FULL. MOST MUNICIPALITIES IN THE GTHA HAVEN'T BUILT SHELTER BEDS AND EVERYONE COMES TO TORONTO T IS A FACT THAT ON A TYPICAL NIGHT 30% OF OUR SHELTERS ARE OCCUPIED BY REFUGEES. AND THEY NEED A PLACE TO LIVE. BUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS THE ONUS TO STEP UP AND HELP WITH SOME SUPPORT. A LOT OF THE TIME I FEEL THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS TAKEN US OUT FOR DINNER AND WALKED OUT ON THE BILL AND THAT'S NOT SUSTAINABLE. THE ULTIMATE SOLUTION IS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GIVE PEOPLE THE DIGNITY OF A ROOF OVER THEIR HEAD AND BUILD HOUSING AND THAT'S WHY IN MY COMMUNITY I BUILT 59 UNITS, NEW HOMES FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH WRAP AROUND SUPPORTS. THERE WAS A LONG PROCESS WITH THE COMMUNITY, LOTS OF TOUGH CONVERSATIONS, BUT I MET A WOMAN WHO HAD PREVIOUSLY BEEN HOMELESS. AND SHE REALLY CHANGED THE TIDE OF THAT CONVERSATION BECAUSE SHE INDICATED JUST HOW POWERFUL THAT WAS TO GET HER LIFE BACK ON TRACK. >> Steve: THANK YOU, BRAD. >> Brad Bradford: CAN'T KEEP BUILDING SHELTERS -- >> Steve: OLIVIA CHOW YOU GET THE LAST OF THE MINUTE-LONG ADDRESSES BEFORE WE GO TO THE OPEN FORM. >> Olivia Chow: WELL, DHALIA WHICH I WAS TALKING TO YOU ABOUT EARLIER, IF SHE LOSES HER JOB SHE'S IN SERIOUS TROUBLE. THE CITY OF TORONTO CAN PROVIDE A BIT OF FINANCIAL AND SOCIAL SUPPORT SO SHE DOESN'T GET EVICTED. IF -- HOPEFULLY NOT -- SHE GETS EVICTED, SHE BECOMES HOMELESS, THEN THERE IS A RESPITE CENTRE FOR HER. 24/7. THERE WILL BE A PLACE FOR HER TO TAKE A SHOWER, HAVE A MEAL. FIND ANOTHER JOB. BE ABLE TO GIVE HER THE SERVICE SHE NEEDS. AND MAYBE A SHELTER SHE NEEDS. BUT SOME OF YOU WILL KNOW THAT SHELTERS ARE ALL FULL. THERE'S 200 FOLKS-PLUS TONIGHT THAT CAN'T GET INTO A SHELTER. THAT'S WHY, IMMEDIATELY, WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS HAVE THESE RENT SUPPLEMENTS TO TAKE PEOPLE OUT FROM THE SHELTERS INTO BUILDINGS AND APARTMENTS, PAY A LITTLE BIT MORE SO THAT THEY CAN ACTUALLY AFFORD IT. AND HAVE WRAP AROUND SERVICES THAT'S WHAT WE NEED. >> Steve: OPEN FORUM NOW FOR NINE MINUTES AND JOSH MATLOW, YOU GET THE FIRST CHANCE. WHAT'S THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IN GETTING MORE HOUSING BUILT IN THE CITY RIGHT NOW? >> Josh Matlow: THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS THAT THE CITY ANNOUNCES PLANS LIKE HOUSING NOW THAT'S BASED ON FALSE ASSUMPTIONS. THE ASSUMPTION WAS THAT WE COULD BUILD ON OUR OWN PROPERTIES, PARKING LOTS AND UNDER UTILIZED BUILDINGS. BUT THAT THE PRIVATE DEVELOPMENT INDUSTRY WOULD PUT UP THE RISK. PUT UP THE EQUITY AND THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN. THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD. BUT UNLIKE ANY OTHER CANDIDATE I'M ACTUALLY MOVING FORWARD WITH A REAL COSTED -- MORE THAN COSTED, ACTUALLY DELIVERABLE PLAN BECAUSE I'M MAKING CHOICES. AS WE SAID EARLIER, WE HAVE A BIG SHORTFALL THIS YEAR. WE HAVE A SIGNIFICANT BUDGET PRESSURE OVER THE NEXT TEN YEARS. SO INSTEAD OF WHEN WE TAKE DOWN A SMALL SECTION OF THE GARDINER, THAT'S COMING DOWN BY THE WAY BECAUSE IT'S UNSAFE. THE DECISION IS, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO AFTERWARD? I'M GOING TO PUT ON THE GROUND RATHER THAN ELEVATE IT LIKE THOUGH DID IN THE 1950s SO THAT I CAN SAVE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND PUT IT TOWARD HOUSING WHICH IS THE REAL PRIORITY FOR TORONTO. >> Steve: LET'S GET BRAD BRADFORD IN AND OLIVIA CHOW. >> Brad Bradford: A A LOT TO FOLLOW UP ON THERE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FICTITIOUS SAVINGS FIVE YEARS DOWN THE ROAD AFTER A LENGTHY ENVIRONMENTAL PROCESS THAT PROJECT WILL BE MORE COSTLY FIVE YEARS FROM NOW THAN TAKING AN ELEVATED EXPRESSWAY AND SLAM IT THROUGH THE MIDDLE AFTER NEIGHBOURHOOD THAT IS NOT THE RIGHT THING TO DO. THE CONGESTION PROBLEM IN THE CITY IS OUT OF CONTROL: WE NEED TO GET ON WITH INFRASTRUCTURE. AND NOT SPEND TIME WITH SEVEN-YEAR-OLD PLANS. I SAW THAT WAS AN URBAN PLANNER WORKING IN THE CHIEF PLANNER'S OFFICE, THE CHALLENGES WITH THE BUREAUCRACY MUCH THE FOLKS AT THE BOARD OF TRADE KNOW THIS WE HAVE THE UNENVIABLE STATISTICS OF HAVING THE SLOWEST APPROVALS IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY. IT TAKES NEARLY THREE-YEARS TO GET AN APPLICATION THROUGH A ZONING BYLAW AMENDMENT AND THAT IS JUST TOO SLOW WHEN WE HAVE THE CHALLENGES WE'RE FACING AROUND AFFORDABILITY. SO I WILL SPEED UP THAT PROCESS TO DELIVER MORE HOUSING FASTER TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE CAN AFFORD TO LIVE IN THE CITY. >> Steve: OLIVIA CHOW THEN MITZIE HUNTER. >> Olivia Chow: ALL THE FOLKS HERE HAVE BEEN IN CHARGE. THEY'VE BEEN ON THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE, DEPUTY MAYOR, THEY'VE BEEN IN CHARGE AND, YES, WE HAVE A HUGE, LONG PLANNING PROCESS. AND THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. YOU HAVE TO HAVE DEBT LINES TO SAY EITHER YES OR NO, LET'S BE TRANSPARENT, MAKE IT DIGITAL AND SHOW WHICH APPLICATIONS WHAT MAP AND HOW LONG IT'S BEEN. WHEN YOU HAVE THINGS THAT ARE TRANSPARENT IT BECOMES ACCOUNTABLE. BUT BACK TO THE HOUSING QUESTION, WE NEED TO BUILD UNDER MY PLAN, WE WILL BUILD 25,000 UNITS OF HOUSING. INSTEAD, RIGHT NOW, WHAT THE CITY OF TORONTO IS DOING IS GETTING THE PRIVATE DEVELOPER AND HAVING THEM APPROVE ONE BY ONE BY ONE TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT GETTING THE FEDERAL OFFER OF FUNDING. WHAT WE CAN DO IF THE CITY IS DEVELOPER IS PATCH ON 25,000 AND SAY TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WE WILL TAKE THAT $82 BILLION THAT YOU OFFERED ON THE TABLE FOR YOUR NATIONAL HOUSING PLAN AND WE WILL ACCEPT THAT MONEY AND BUILD IT SO MUCH FASTER THAT WAY. >> Steve: FORGIVE ME I DID SAY THAT THAT BEFORE. BUT ANA BAILÃO, PLEASE. >> Ana Bailão: THIS IS WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO ELECT SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE DOING. FIRST OF ALL I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE MARK SAUNDERS UNDERSTAND THAT SUPPLY IS VERY IMPORTANT. BUT SUPPLY WILL NEVER BUILD SUPPORTIVE HOUSING IN THIS CITY. LET'S BE CLEAR ABOUT THAT. WE NEED TO BUILD SUPPLY. IT HAS AN IMPACT ON AFFORDABILITY. BUT IT WILL NOT BUILD THE SUPPORTIVE HOUSING THAT WE DO. THE SAME THING THAT YOU CAN'T TAX YOUR WAY OUT-OF-HOUSING. YOU CANNOT TAX YOUR WAY OUT-OF-HOUSING. YOU NEED THE PRIVATE SECTOR. YOU NEED THE NON-PROFIT SECTOR. YOU NEED THE THREE ORDERS OF GOVERNMENT. THAT'S HOW YOU'RE HE GOING TO BE BUILDING THE SUPPLY, I AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND THE SUPPORTIVE HOUSING LIKE I HAVE DONE IN SO MANY INSTANCES IN SUPPORTIVE HOUSING AND IN AFFORDABLE HOUSING AS WELL. >> Steve: OKAY, MITZIE HUNTER THEN MARK SAUNDERS. >> Mitzie Hunter: SO, YOU KNOW, THE HOUSING CRISIS THAT WE'RE IN IS BEING PLAYED OUT ON OUR STREETS. WE SEE IT. IT'S VERY VISIBLE WITH SO MANY HOMELESS PEOPLE. 10% OF THEM ARE YOUTH. AND WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THAT. MY 2,000 SUPPORTIVE HOUSING UNITS ARE NOT NECESSARILY PURPOSE-BUILT UNITS WE'LL JUST ACQUIRE THOSE UNITS. WE CAN PROVIDE THE WRAP AROUND CARE AND SUPPORT WITHIN EXISTING STRUCTURES BECAUSE WE HAVE TO DO IT QUICKLY. I ALSO WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT I DO HAVE A PLAN FOR BUILDING MORE PUBLICLY OWNED RENTAL HOUSING UNITS. AS WELL AS DEEPLY AFFORDABLE HOME EQUITY UNITS SO THAT PEOPLE CAN PURCHASE A HOUSE AND LIVE IN THE CITY BECAUSE WE NEED A SPECTRUM OF HOUSING. WE DON'T HAVE TO DO THINGS THE SAME OLD, SAME OLD. WE CAN DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY. THE CITY CAN BE THE BUILDER. THE CITY CAN BE THE OWNER AND WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE HAVE ACCESS TO THOSE UNITS. WE ALSO DO NEED TO HAVE MORE SUPPLY. SO IN MY PLAN, ALONG 1,200 KILOMETRES OF MAJOR STREETS WE CAN BUILD EIGHT STORIES. SO THAT WE ADD MORE DENSITY. AND WE HAVE TO CREATE REAL NEIGHBOURHOODS. SO I WANT TO ADD RETAIL TORONTO PUBLIC HEALTH SATELLITE OFFICES. TORONTO PUBLIC LIBRARY BRANCHES WITHIN THESE HOUSING UNITS SO WE CREATE THAT NEIGHBOURHOOD FOR PEOPLE TO RAISE THEIR FAMILY AND TO LIVE IN THE CITY. BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT YOU NEED FOR YOUR BUSINESSES. >> Steve: LET'S GIVE MARK SAUNDERS A CHANCE. >> Mark Saunders: GREAT. WHEN I SPEAK ABOUT BUILDING AND BUILDING FAST AND I SPEAK TO THE PROCESS IT'S BECAUSE INDEPENDENT REVIEWS ARE SHOW THAT GO TORONTO IS GOING LAST YET WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT OUR NEWCOMERS ARE COMING IN AT A HIGH RATE. WE'LL HAVE 500,000 MORE BY THE YEAR 2030,-31. Ms. BAILAO SAID SHE BUILT HOUSES AT A RATE OF 1.8% MEANING IT WOULD TAKE 46% TO MEET THE GOAL OF 40,000 AFFORDABLE HOUSES IN A 10-YEAR TIME LINE. THAT'S NOT GOOD. YOU NEED NEW LEADERSHIP IN THE RIGHT POSITION AND TALKING ABOUT BUILDING T. I'M TALKING ABOUT MULTIINCOME. WE HAVE IT WORKING IT REGENT PARK WHERE WE HAVE RENT GEARED TOWARD INCOME. WHERE WE HAVE MARKET VALUE AND WE ALSO HAVE SUPPORTIVE WRAP AROUND WITH NON-PROFIT, NOT FOR PROFIT ENTITIES LOOKING OUT FOR THE MANAGEMENT. WE'VE SHOWN IT CAN WORK BUT WE HAVE TO HAVE THE ABILITY OF CREATING THE PROCESS WHICH DOES NOT HAPPEN RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THE PEOPLE HERE CAUSED THIS BOTTLENECKS RIGHT FROM THE START. >> Steve: OKAY. YOU DID MENTION ANA BAILÃO SO I HAVE TO GIVE HER A CHANCE TO RESPOND TO YOU. GO AHEAD IF YOU WANT TO GO BACK AT THAT. >> Ana Bailão: I WILL. WE HAD GOVERNMENTS STEPPING AWAY FROM HOUSING FOR DECADES. WE HAD TO BRING THE CITY BACK INTO THE HOUSING BUSINESS. AND THAT'S WHAT I DID. I'M PROUD OF THAT. WE BROUGHT A BUDGET THAT WAS $96 MILLION TO $4 BILLION. WE STOPPED SELLING LAND AND ACTUALLY USING LAND TO CREATE AFFORDABLE HOUSING. WE STOPPED THE SALE OF UNITS AT TORONTO COMMUNITY HOUSING AND HAD A FULLY FUNDED $2.6 BILLION THAT IS NOW DIGNIFIED HOMES FOR PEOPLE IN THE CITY OF TORONTO. DO WE NEED TO DO MORE? ABSOLUTELY. THAT'S WHY I'M HERE. THAT'S WHY I'M HERE TO BRING MY EXPERIENCE BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THESE PLANS, THE MATH THAT THERE IS ON THERE, IT DOESN'T WORK. ANYBODY OUT THERE KNOWS IT. $260 IN CONSTRUCTION COSTS IS NOT REAL. NOBODY CAN DO THAT. >> Steve: BRAD BRADFORD AND MITZIE HUNTER. >> Brad Bradford: OLIVIA CHOW WANTS TO ADD MORE BUREAUCRACY TO BUILD MORE HOUSING WE DON'T NEED TO BUILD MORE BUREAUCRACY WE NEED TO BUILD MORE HOUSING FASTER. THE ONLY THING THAT MORE BUREAUCRATIC INSTITUTIONS WILL DO IS ADD MORE TIME, MORE MONEY AND IT WILL FAIL TO DELIVER THE UNIT. WE HAVE SEEN ALL OF THE CHALLENGES WITH THE PROGRAMS THAT GOVERNMENT HAS STOOD UP. BUT NOBODY'S ASKING THE QUESTIONS: WHY ARE THEY NOT WORK? WE'RE ALWAYS SUPPOSED TO BE A MID-RISE CITY ON OUR AVENUES BUT WHEN TORONTONIANS ARE OUT THERE LOOKING AROUND YOU HAVEN'T SEEN A LOT OF MID-RISE BUILDINGS CONSTRUCTED ON OUR AVENUES. IT'S BECAUSE THE PROCESS DOESN'T WORK. IT'S BECAUSE WE MAKE IT AS HARD TO BUILD A SIX-STOREY BUILDING AS WE DO A 60-STOREY BUILDING SO WE NEED TO WORK WITH THE NOT FOR PROFIT SECTOR TO GET BUILDERS TO UNDERSTAND WHY THESE THINGS HAVEN'T BEEN BUILT CHANGE THE PROCESS AND FOCUS ON OUTCOMES. THE OUTCOMES SHOULD BE ON HOUSING. >> Steve: YOU DID TAKE A POKE AT HER SO I WILL GIVE OLIVIA CHOW A CHANCE TO RESPOND. >> Olivia Chow: DEFINITELY. I USED TO REPRESENT A DOWNTOWN RIDING WARD. LOOK AT THE KIND OF BUILDING THAT'S BEEN HAPPENING IN THE CORE OF THE CITY. IN THESE LAST 10 YEARS, Mr. BRADFORD AND OTHERS HAVE BEEN IN CHARGE, THE PROCESS TIME NOW HAS EXTENDED TO ALMOST THREE YEARS. THEY'RE MORE POLICY ADVISORS IN THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT THAN PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY DO THE PLANNING APPLICATION APPROVAL PROCESS. AND THAT HAS TO CHANGE. >> Steve: LET ME GIVE 30 SECOND- >> Olivia Chow: I'M NOT SAYING WE NEED TO HIRE MORE PEOPLE WE NEED TO GIVE PEOPLE DEBT LINES SO THAT THE PROCESS IS MUCH FASTER. >> Steve: LET ME GIVE MITZIE HUNTER THE LAST WORD. >> Mitzie Hunter: WHAT WE DON'T NEED IS MORE OF THE SAME. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT. >> Chief LaForme: BOYLE. NOT ONE UNIT OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING HAS BEEN PRODUCED UNDER YOUR PLAN. THE PLAN THAT I HAVE IS THE PLAN FOR THE CITY AND THE OWNER OF THOSE UNITS: IT IT IT IS BUILDING MORE PEOPLE. YOU DID TAKE A POKE AT THAT THAT AND I WANT TO GIVE LETTER A CHANCE TO RESPOND. >> Ana Bailão: WHEN YOU HAVE 3,000 UNITS IN THE CITY OF TORONTO UNDER CONSTRUCTION RIGHT NOW. >> Mitzie Hunter: NO ONE'S LIVING IN THEM. >> Ana Bailão: 3,000 UNDER CONSTRUCTION. AND 15,000 THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED. >> Steve: THAT'S THE LAST WORD IN THIS SECTION LET'S MOVE ON NOW BECAUSE PUBLIC SAFETY HAS BEEN A VERY BIG ISSUE LATELY I DON'T HAVE TO TELL ANYONE HERE. JOSH MATLOW YOU GET THE FIRST WORD ON THIS. WHAT/DES DO YOU HAVE TO MAKE TORONTO A SAFER CITY? >> Josh Matlow: I BELIEVE THAT THE POLICE ARE GOOD AT WHAT THE POLICE DO BUT THEY SHOULD MOST OFTEN BE THE LAST RESORT WHEN IT COMES TO ADDRESSING THE ISSUES THAT WE'RE EXPERIENCING IN THE TTC, FOR EXAMPLE. I'VE BEEN REMINDING MY COLLEAGUES FOR A LONG TIME THAT WHILE WE EXPERIENCE VIOLENCE IN THE TTC, IT DOESN'T BEGIN IN THE TTC. IT BEGINS IN OUR NEIGHBOURHOODS, IN OUR COMMUNITIES. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE EXPERIENCING POVERTY, LACK OF ACCESS TO HOUSING. TRAUMA, MENTAL HEALTH, AND THERE SHOULD BE TRAINED STAFF WHO ARE WORKING WITH US AS A RAPID RESPONSE TEAM TO WORK WITH TRANSIT CONTROL, TO IDENTIFY INDIVIDUALS WITH THE POTENTIAL OF VIOLENCE. AND DEESCALATE THEM. AND PREVENT TRAGEDY FROM HAPPENING. THE POLICE WERE CALLED AS THE LAST RESORT. I ALSO BELIEVE THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS THE ROOT CAUSES OF YOUTH VIOLENCE IN OUR COMMUNITIES. THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO INVEST IN OUR KIDS. >> Steve: TIME'S UP, MITZIE HUNTER, A MINUTE TO YOU. >> Mitzie Hunter: YOU KNOW, IN THE LAST YEAR AND A BIT I'VE BEEN TO TWO SCHOOLS IN SCARBOROUGH. WHERE TWO TEENAGERS WERE SHOT AND KILLED. AND, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE KIND OF SITUATION THAT WE'RE FACING IN OUR CITIES. ADDRESSING VIOLENCE IN OUR COMMUNITY IS A COMPLEX CHALLENGE. YES, IT INVOLVES POLICING. BUT IT ALSO INVOLVES THE SOCIAL DETERMINANTS OF HEALTH. HOUSING, EMPLOYMENT, EDUCATION. AND THE CITY DOES HAVE A ROLE IN TERMS OF INVESTING IN THOSE ROOT CAUSES. AND THAT'S WHY I HAVE A PLAN TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE SAFETY ON THE TTC, FOR SURE. THAT'S THE ONLY WAY WE'RE GOING TO GET READERSHIP UP. I ALSO WANT TO INVEST IN OUR NEIGHBOURHOODS AND OUR COMMUNITIES. PUBLIC LIBRARIES. WITH YOUTH HUBS SO THAT YOUNG PEOPLE BEFORE- AND AFTER-SCHOOL HAVE A PLACE TO GO AS WELL AS HOURS ON SUNDAYS. I WANT TO INVEST IN THE THINGS THAT WILL GROW OUR COMMUNITIES AND MAKE SURE THAT TORONTO IS A SAFE PLACE. >> Steve: THANK YOU, MARK SAUNDERS, YOU'RE UP. >> Mark Saunders: YOU KNOW, I LOVE THE CITY BECAUSE I USED TO TAKE GREAT JOY IN COMING BACK FROM OTHER CITIES SAYING TORONTO IS A SAFE CITY, TORONTO IS A CLEAN CITY. I'M RUNNING BECAUSE WE'VE NORMALIZED CRIME AND DISORDER. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE LEADERS RUNNING IN THE DEBATE I FIND THAT A LITTLE IRONIC BECAUSE IT WAS Ms. BAILAO AND Mr. MATLOW WHO RAISED THEIR HANDS TO SAY REMOVE THE GUNS FROM THE TORONTO POLICE. REMOVE THE GUNS AND Mr. BRADFORD PUT HIS HAND UP, TOO. SO I CAN'T TAKE THEM SERIOUSLY WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT COMMUNITY SAFETY. MY PLAN IN TAKING THE TTC AND MAKING IT SAFE IS THE BEST PLAN AND THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO EXECUTE QUICK IT'S ONE THAT POLICE COULD TAKE OVER USING SPECIAL CONSTABLES MAKING SURE THEY'RE VISIBLE HAVING AN ASSIST BUTTON INSTEAD OF A HELP BUTTON THAT WILL HELP PEOPLE IN NEED. 99% OF THE PEOPLE CAUSING ADDITION RUNNINGS -- DISRUPTIONS ARE PEOPLE WHO NEED HELP. AND I WILL MAKE SURE IT'S DONE PROPERLY AND APOPE RATTILY IT WILL MAKE OUR CITY SAFE, AGAIN. >> Steve: AND THAT'S TIME THERE. BRAD BRADFORD? >> Brad Bradford: I WILL JUST SAY I CAN'T TAKE MARK SAUNDERS SERIOUSLY WHEN 86% OF FRONT LINE POLICE OFFICERS VOTED NON-CONFIDENCE IN HIS TRACK RECORD AS POLICE CHIEF AS A FAILED POLICE CHIEF. I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE ANSWER. I THINK WHEN WE LOOK AT ALL THE METRICS DURING HIS TIME AS CHIEF THE NUMBERS WERE MOVING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION. LOOK, THE REALITY IS PEOPLE DON'T FEEL SAFE ON THE TTC RIGHT NOW. YOU SEE IT ON THE PLATFORM EVERY DAY. THEIR BACKS ARE JAMMED AGAINST THE WALLS AND THAT'S BECAUSE THERE'S NOT A ZERO PER CENT CHANCE THEY COULD END UP ON THE TRACKS. I HAVE COME OUT WITH MY SAFE TTC NOW PLAN THAT WILL INSTALL PLATFORM-EDGE DOORS AT OUR BUSIEST STATIONS. SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN TALKED ABOUT HERE AT THE CITY FOR A DECADE ANDREW LESLIE BEEN MOVED FORWARD. LY BOOST THE SECURITY PRESENCE WITH SPECIAL CONSTABLES IN OUR STATIONS AND ON THE NETWORK. WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT FOLKS HAVE ACCESS TO MENTAL HEALTH AND CRISIS RESPONSE TEAMS WHEN AND WHERE THEY NEED IT ON THE SYSTEM AND, OF COURSE, CELLULAR SERVICE SO ^ THAT IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO YOUR CARRIER IS YOU HAVE CONNECTIVITY. >> Steve: THANK YOU BRAD BRADFORD. OLIVIA CHOW, YOU'RE UP. >> Olivia Chow: IF YOU LISTEN TO THE MANY WHOS WHO HAVE -- IF YOU LISTEN TO THE MUMS WHO HAVE LOST THEIR LOVED ONES OR FAMILY MEMBERS THEY TALK ABOUT THEIR KIDS NEED HOPE. THEIR KIDS NEED AFTER SCHOOL PROGRAMS, EMPLOYMENT, MENTORSHIP. THAT'S WHAT THEY SAY. THE OTHER THING THEY WILL SAY IS THAT IN TTC, SOME OF THE FOLKS -- OR ON THE STREETS, THEY NEED MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORT. NOT THE POLICE. THEY NEED PEOPLE THAT KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH FOLKS THAT HAVE TROUBLES IN THEIR MINDS. SO IT'S LIKE SOCIAL WORKERS, PSYCHIATRISTS, THOSE KIND OF PEOPLE THAT CAN, IN FACT, CALL 911, DON'T CALL 911, CALL 211. BECAUSE THOSE CALLS WILL THEN BE DIVERTED TO 0 TORONTO COMMUNITY CRISIS RESPONSE. BECAUSE I'M UPPING THEIR BUDGET SO THAT THEY CAN RESPOND TO THESE CALLS 24/7 ALL ACROSS THE CITY, WHICH IS NOT WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW. THAT WOULD THEN FREE UP THE POLICE TO DO THE SAFETY WORK THEY DO. >> Steve: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ANA BAILÃO, THE LAST OF THE MINUTE RESPONSES, PLEASE. >> Ana Bailão: STEVE, I HAVE NEVER VOTED TO DEFUND THE POLICE. BUT UNLIKE Mr. SAUNDERS, I BELIEVE WE ALSO DON'T NEED POLICE OFFICERS WITH MACHINE GUNS IN OUR SUBWAYS. I BELIEVE IN A WELL FUNDED AND WELL TRAINED POLICE FORCE THAT IS AVAILABLE TO DEAL WITH CRIME THAT IS AVAILABLE TO EXPAND OUR NEIGHBOURHOOD PROGRAMS AND IMPROVE OUR 911 RESPONSE TIME. BUT ALSO THAT WE INVEST IN PROGRAMS LIKE OUR TORONTO COMMUNITY RESPONSE UNIT TO RESPOND TO SOMEONE WHEN THEY'RE IN A MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS. YOU KNOW, MENTAL HEALTH IS NOT A CRIME. SO WE NEED TO HAVE THE APPROPRIATE RESPONSES FOR THAT SO THAT ACTUALLY THE POLICE CAN CONCENTRATE ON THEIR WORK. I WILL ALSO HAVE MOBILE MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS UNITS BECAUSE WHAT WE'VE BEEN SEEING ON OUR SUBWAYS IS A SYMPTOM OF WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE CITY AS WELL. WE NEED TO HAVE BOTH THESE SOLUTIONS. IT'S NOT AN EITHER/OR. WE NEED TO INVEST IN OUR POLICE TO MAKE SURE THAT'S FUNDED BUT ALSO IN THE SERVICES. >> Steve: THANK YOU ANA BAILÃO. THIS OPEN FORUM WILL BE A BIT COMPLICATED BECAUSE MITZIE HUNTER YOU GET THE FIRST OPPORTUNITY TO RESPOND BUT A NUMBER OF YOU HAVE POKED A NUMBER OF OTHERS OF YOU AND WE HAVE TO DO A LITTLE FACT CHECKING BEFORE WE GO TOO FAR. SO MITZIE HUNTER YOU GET IT STARTED THEN WE'LL DO SOME FACT CHECKING UP HERE. >> Mitzie Hunter: WE CAN'T AFFORD TO NORMALIZE CRIME IMBALANCE IN OUR CITY. THIS IS NOT THE CITY THAT WE WANT. WE HAVE TO MAKE INVESTMENTS AND WE CAN'T CUT OUR WAY TO THOSE OPPORTUNITIES. WE HAVE TO HAVE INVESTMENTS IN PROGRAMS FOR YOUNG PEOPLE, FOR OUR COMMUNITY BROADLY IN TERMS OF REDUCTIONS OF PROPERTY -- POVERTY. AND MAKING SURE THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES TO CALLING THE POLICE. IN MY COMMUNITY SAFETY PLAN I WILL PAIR SOCIAL WORKERS WITH THE TRANSIT OFFICERS SO THAT WHEN PEOPLE NEED TRANSIT SUPPORT IT'S RIGHT THERE. THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO FAR. IT'S RIGHT ADJACENT TO THE INTERVENTION THAT THE OFFICERS WILL PROVIDE. I HAVE LONG CHAMPIONED ENDING GUN VIOLENCE BY MAKING IT A PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUE. I HAVE SEEN SOME REAL POSITIVE EFFORTS THAT THE BRAVE PROGRAM HAS DELIVERED AT SUNNYBROOK HOSPITAL. AND SO LET'S BRING THESE INITIATIVES TO SCALE LIKE THE MOBILE CRISIS RESPONSE UNIT THAT IS INTERVENING FOR WELLNESS CALLS VERSUS HAVING THE POLICE THERE. IT IS NOT AN EITHER/OR. WE NEED TO MAKE THOSE INVESTMENTS AND CUTTING OUR WAY WILL NOT GET US THERE. >> Steve: I UNDERSTAND SOME ALLEGATIONS HAVE BEEN MADE UP HERE AND WE HAVE TO FACT CHECK THESE. JOSH MATLOW, FIRST, THE FORMER CHIEF SAID YOU VOTED TO REMOVE THE GUNS FROM POLICE COULD YOU COMMENT ON THAT? >> Josh Matlow: FIRST OF ALL, IT IS AMAZING TO HEAR SUCH WONDERFUL PROGRESSIVE RHETORIC FROM SOME OF MY PEERS HERE WHO ARE ANNOUNCING THE VERY THINGS THAT I HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR FOR YEARS AS A CITY COUNCILLOR. AND MANY OF THEM VOTED AGAINST. I DIDN'T GO ALONG TO GET ALONG JUST TO GET APPOINTMENTS. LIKE THE REALITY IS. >> Ana Bailão: DID YOU GET ANYTHING DONE? YOU DIDN'T GET ANYTHING DONE. A. >> Josh Matlow: THAT'S RIGHT AND I IMAGINE NICK KARAGIS WILL GIVE YOU A HAND TO GET IT DONE ANA, IF YOU WOULD, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, THE WAY THAT MARK SAUNDERS -- I MEAN HE TAKES THIS DOUG FORD APPROACH WHICH IS FEARMONGERRING AND, YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T WANT POLICE TO WALK AROUND AS ANA BY THE WAY CORRECTLY SAID WITH MILITARY GRADE WEAPONS. I THINK THAT'S REASONABLE IN CANADA. BUT ULTIMATELY, THIS SORT OF DOUG FORD APPROACH DOES NOT WORK. THIS BULLYING APPROACH TO SCARE YOU, TO THINK THAT THE ONLY WAY TO KEEP PEOPLE SAFE IS TO REACT, TO AROSE. THERE THERE IS A REASON WHY WE HAVE RISING VIOLENCE. AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO ARREST OUR WAY OUT OF THIS BUT ADDRESS THE REASON WHY IT IS THERE HAD IN THE FIRST PLACE. >> Steve: BRAD BRADFORD THE ALLEGATION WAS MADE AGAINST YOU THAT YOU VOTED TO REMOVE GUNS YES OR NO? >> Brad Bradford: NO, AS JOSH MATLOW AND THAT THAT HAVE INDICATED IT WAS A CONVERSATION ABOUT THE TYPE OF EQUIPMENT. AND THE EQUIPMENT BUDGET SOARED UNDER CHIEF SAUNDERS. THAT IS TRUE. WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THAT WE NEED REFORM. RIGHT? WE NEED REFORM. AND I THINK WE CAN ALL BE ADULTS AND RECOGNIZE THAT WHAT WE WERE DOING WAS NOT WORKING. AND CHIEF SAUNDERS ACTUALLY SAID AFTER HE QUIT THE POSITION, 40% OF THE CALLS THAT WE ASK OUR FRONT LINE POLICE OFFICERS TO RESPOND TO SHOULD BE RESPONDED TO BY OTHER PEOPLE. AND SO THAT VOTE FOR DEFUND WAS REALLY A REFLECTION THAT WE DO NEED REFORM AND I THINK CHIEF SAUNDERS AGREED. WHEN I TALK TO FRONT LINE OFFICERS THEY TELL ME THEY'RE NOT TRAINED TO BE MARRIAGE COUNSELORS OR MENTAL HEALTH RESPONDERS. THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO INVEST IN POLICE. BECAUSE WE HAVE 700 FEWER OFFICERS THAN WE HAD IN 2003. AND YET THE CITY HAS GROWN BY A MILLION PEOPLE OVER 20 YEARS. BUT WE ALSO NEED TO INVEST IN MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORTS. >> Steve: LET ME GET MARK SAUNDERS' TEAM. YOU MADE A COMMENT ABOUT MARK SAUNDERS THAT 86% OF FRONT LINE OFFICERS VOTED NO CONFIDENCE IN HIM I WANT TO GIVE THE FORMER CHIEF A CHANCE TO RESPOND TO THAT. >> Mark Saunders: IT'S FUNNY BEING SCHOOLED BY POLICE BY ANYBODY ON THIS PODIUM. BUT, YOU KNOW, I'VE GOT FLIP FLOP BRAD HERE. IT'S WONDERFUL. TALKING TO ME ABOUT DOWNSIZING WHEN I DIDN'T. WHAT I HAD TO DO WAS DEAL WITH THE CITY AGENCY WHICH IS THE TORONTO POLICE SERVICE WHICH THEY FUNDED. AND THEY GAVE ME TWO YEARS UP TO ZERO BUDGET THAT I HAD TO MANAGE SO THERE'S A START. WITHOUT ANY REDUCTION ON ANYTHING. BUT SECONDLY I'M USING SPECIAL CONSTABLES. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS DISCUSSION ON DOZENS OF MACHINE GUNS IS COMING FROM. >> Brad Bradford: YOU BROUGHT IT UP. [LAUGHTER] >> Mark Saunders: WHAT I BROUGHT UP WAS THAT -AND MATLOW VOTED TO BAN OFFICERS FROM CARRYING GUNS AND THAT ALL THE GUNS WOULD BE DESTROYED WITHIN A YEAR JUNE 2020. THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. BUT SHE'S TALKING ABOUT ME CARRYING MACHINE GUNS ON SUBWAYS. I DON'T KNOW WHERE THIS MAGIC IS COMING FROM. BLESS HER ON THAT. BUT LISTEN, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT LEADERSHIP, WHICH IS WHAT I DID, I WILL ALWAYS FIGHT FOR THE BEST INTERESTS OF EVERY CITIZEN IN THIS CITY. AND SO WHEN I GOT THAT APPROVAL IT'S BECAUSE I WAS FIGHTING. I WAS FIGHTING TO MAKE SURE THAT THROWS OFFICERS WOULD WEAR BODY CAMS. I WAS FIGHTING TO MAKE SURE THAT A 37-YEAR-OLD SHIFT SCHEDULE WHICH CHANGED TO TODAY'S TIMES TO GIVE BETTER DELIVERY OF SERVICE. IT'S TALKING ABOUT USING SPECIAL CONSTABLES TOWARD THE FRONT LINE TO ADD THE SAME VALUE NOT DIMINISH THE QUALITY OF POLICING. THAT'S CALLED LEADERSHIP. BUT AS SOON AS THEY GOT CHALLENGED, THEY PUT THEIR HANDS UP TO TAKE GUNS AWAY. THAT IS NOT LEADERSHIP. LEADERSHIP IS LEANING IN WHEN YOU HAVE TO WHEN YOU FIGHT FOR WHAT'S RIGHT, MAKE SURE -- >> Steve: THANK YOU WE HAVEN'T HEARD FROM OLIVIA CHOW IN THIS ROUND YET SO GO AHEAD. >> Olivia Chow: YEAH, SAFETY ALSO MEANS WHEN YOU CALL 911 YOU GET A RESPONSE AND NOT GETTING PUT ON HOLD. I HAVE THAT EXPERIENCE WHEN MY DAD HAD PNEUMONIA. HE WAS IN A NURSING HOME AND I WAS PUT ON HOLD. I WAS DESPERATE. I WAS SCARED. BECAUSE MY DAD WASN'T BREATHING WELL. AND BEING PUT ON HOLD, I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG, MAYBE A MINUTE, TWO MINUTES. I DON'T KNOW, IT FELT LIKE AN ETERNITY. 911 CALLS GREW IN TERMS OF WAIT TIMES UNDER Mr. SAUNDERS. AND WHAT WE CAN DO IS IF WE DIVERT THOSE MENTAL HEALTH CALLS AWAY FROM 911s THEN WE COULD HAVE 911 IT REALLY SPEEDING IT UP SO THAT WHEN WE CALL, WHEN WE'RE DESPERATE, WE GET IMMEDIATE SERVICE. THAT IS WHAT WE NEED TO DO. >> Steve: ANA BAILÃO THEN BRAD BRADFORD. >> Ana Bailão: I'M JUST GOING TO SAY THAT THERE WERE A FEW MORE THINGS THAT GREW UNDER Mr. SAUNDERS HOMICIDES BY 23%. AUTO THEFTLY 80% AND HOMICIDE BY SHOOTING WENT UP BY 48% UNDER HIS LEADERSHIP AS WELL. >> Steve: DO YOU BLAME HIM FOR THAT? >> Ana Bailão: IT WAS UNDER HIS LEADERSHIP HE IS THE ONE THAT WILL HAVE TO ANSWER FOR THAT. AS A LEADER YOU ANSWER FOR THAT. I ANSWERED FOR THE ACCUSATIONS THAT I HAD NO HOUSING BUILDING. I TOLD YOU HOW MUCH HOUSING WAS ACTUALLY AFFORDABLE HOUSING WAS ACTUALLY BEING BUILT SO SOMEBODY HAS TO ANSWER FOR THOSE QUESTIONS AS WELL. AND SOMEBODY -- AND THE OTHER CANDIDATES SHOULD TALK ABOUT WHO'S GOING TO DEFUND OR NOT DEFUND THE POLICE. THERE ARE PLANS OUT THERE TO THAT ARE GOING TO DEFUND THE POLICE. >> Steve: BRAD BRADFORD, PLEASE. >> Brad Bradford: YEAH, I MEAN, THE NUMBERS UNDER MARK SAUNDERS' LEADERSHIP WHEN IT CAME TO CRIME IN THE COMMUNITY WERE NOT GOOD. THEY ALL MOVED IN THE WRONG DIRECTION. WE'RE STILL RECOVERING FROM THAT. BUT OLIVIA MADE A GOOD POINT ABOUT 911 RESPONSE TIMES. THAT'S WHY THIS THIS BUDGET THAT I SUPPORTED WE VOTED TO INCREASE $48 MILLION TO TORONTO POLICE TO HIRE FRONT LINE OFFICERS TO KEEP OUR COMMUNITY SAFE BUT ALSO HAVE THE RESOURCES SO THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY HIT OUR SERVICE STANDARDS WHEN IT COMES TO 911 RESPONSE TIMES. HI A FRIEND IN PARK VIEW HILLS WHOSE FATHER PASSED. HE CALLED 911 AND HE WAS PUT ON HOLD AND THERE WAS A SIX, SEVEN-MINUTE WAIT. THAT'S -- IT WAS A COMPLICATED SITUATION. BUT YOU CAN IMAGINE HOW CHALLENGING THAT IS WHEN YOUR FATHER IS IN PAIN AND YOU'RE MAKING THE CALL AND NOBODY'S PICKING UP. THAT'S UNACCEPTABLE. >> Steve: YOU HAVE HEARD THE ALLEGATIONS MADE THAT CRIME WENT UP ON YOUR WATCH I WANT TO GIVE YOU A CHANCE TO RESPOND. >> Mark Saunders: FIRST OFF I WILL PUT MY RECORD UP AGAINST ANY FORMER CHIEF OR ANYONE ON THE PODIUM HERE TODAY. NUMBER TWO I'M GLAD THEY BROUGHT IT UP, THE POLICE SERVICE IS A CITY AGENCY. THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT ALL OF THE GAPS AND LACK OF RESOURCING BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T BUDGET IT. THAT'S WHAT THE PROBLEM IS. LEADERSHIP IS NOT ABOUT LISTENING TO THE LOUDEST VOICE IN THE ROOM WHICH IS WHAT THEY DO FREQUENTLY. THAT'S WHY I'M RUNNING. I HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE AND SKILLS AND KNOW HOW TO MAKE INFORMED DECISIONS AND LISTEN TO THE RIGHT VOICES. THE COLLECTIVE VOICES. TO TO MAKE OUR CITY SAFE. >> Steve: MITZIE HUNTER, WE'RE ALMOST OUT OF TIME. >> Ana Bailão: UNDER YOUR WATCH AS FORMER CHIEF CRIME HAS GONE UP: >> Mitzie Hunter: THAT'S THE RESULT. AS A FORMER EDUCATION MINISTER IF KIDS AREN'T LEARNING IN OUR SCHOOLS HAVE I TO ACCOUNT FOR THAT. >> Steve: AN THAT'S OUR TIME, IN THIS ROUND: THE NEXT QUESTION IS ABOUT CONGESTION. THIS CITY HAS NEVER BEEN HARDER TO GET AROUND. WHAT WOULD YOU DO -- I WOULD LIKE TO-DO KNOW Y'ALL INTEND TO DO ABOUT CONJEN JEST COMMON IN THE CITY RIGHT NOW AND MITZIE HUNTER YOU GET THE FIRST CRACK AT THIS. >> Mitzie Hunter: THIS IS DEFINITELY A QUESTION THAT I EMBRACE AS SOMEONE FROM SCARBOROUGH I KNOW THE CHALLENGE IT IS WHEN WE DON'T HAVE GOOD ACCESS TO PUBLIC TRANSIT. YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS GRADUATING HIGH SCHOOL TO GO TO UNIVERSITY, I GOT TWO ACCEPTANCES, YORK UNIVERSITY AND UTSC. AND MY MOM SIMPLY SAID UTSC IS ONE BUS RIDE UP THE ROAD AND THAT'S HOW I CHOSE MY UNIVERSITY. AND SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CHOICES THAT YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE AS THEY'RE GROWING UP OF UP IN OUR CITY AND FRANKLY PEOPLE WANT WHEN THEY'RE CHOOSING WHERE THEY WORK AND LIVE THAT THEY HAVE GOOD ACCESS TO PUBLIC TRANSIT. AND I HAVE A CONSTRUCTION PRIORITY THAT'S EMBEDDED IN MY PLAN TO BUILD THE NORTH YORK SCARBOROUGH SUBWAY EXTENSION FROM DOWNSVIEW TO SCARBOROUGH. MAKING SURE THAT WE CONNECT THAT LINE ALONG THE NORTHERN PART OF OUR CITY. MAKING SURE WE CONNECT THE WATER FRONT EAST LRT AS WELL. WE HAVE 9,000 STUDENTS THAT GO TO THE GEORGE BROWN WATER FRONT CAMPUS. >> Steve: WE'LL HAVE A CHANCE TO HAVE MORE IN THE OPEN FORUM. MARK SAUNDERS, A MINUTE ON CONGESTION FROM YOU. >> Mark Saunders: WHEN WE HAVE CONGESTION WE HAVE BAD BUSINESS. WE HAVE TO GET IT RIGHT IN ORDER TO MAKE OUR CITY VIABLE AND WANT BUSINESSES TO COME INTO OUR CITY. SO MY PLAN IS A SIMILARLE ONE. WE'RE GOING TO INCREASE THE FINES OF PEOPLE STOPPED ESPECIALLY DURING RUSHHOUR AND DEPLOY TRAFFIC WARDENS INTO THOSE AREAS WHERE THOSE CHOKE POINTS ARE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE TRAFFIC MOVING. AND ALSO MAKE SURE THAT THE GRIDLOCK, WHEN PEOPLE ARE BLOCKING THOSE INTERSECTIONS AT RETRO LIEDS, MAKING SURE THAT WE HAVE PROPER RESOURCES THERE. DELIVERY TRUCKS AND CREATING ZONES OR PARKING SPACES OUTSIDE AND OFF THE MAIN STREETS IS IMPORTANT. AND ALSO MAKING SURE THAT WE DON'T GIVE PERMITS TO THOSE BUSINESSES AND THOSE BUILDERS TO TAKE UP THE LANE. YOU KNOW, LONDON, NEW YORK, YOU DON'T SEE THESE TYPES OF THINGS. IN TORONTO, WE DO. WE HAVE TO CREATE THE PROPER CULTURE. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE BIKE LANES WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT'S DONE PROPERLY. YOU CAN'T TAKE THE TWO BUSIEST STREETS IN THE COUNTRY MAKE THEM SINGLE LANES AND QUESTION WHY -- >> Steve: THANK YOU MORE TO COME. BRAD BRADFORD, PLEASE. >> Brad Bradford: THE BOARD OF TRADE WILL KNOW THIS WE HAVE ONE OF THE SLOWEST RETURN TO OFFICE RATES IN NORTH AMERICA. THE ONLY THING YOU CAN POINT TO IN CORRELATION IS JUST HOW HARD IT IS TO GET AROUND IN THIS CITY. WHETHER YOU'RE TAKING TRANSIT OR ARE UNFORTUNATELY STUCK IN A CAR IN TRAFFIC IT'S NEVER BEEN MORE CHALLENGING. AND, YOU KNOW, AS MAYOR, I WILL APPOINT A CONGESTION RELIEF COMMISSIONER. SOMEBODY WHOSE ENTIRE JOB IS TO COORDINATE ALL THE MAJOR INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS. TAKE THE ADVANTAGE OF LAKESHORE RIGHT NOW. WHEN YOU'RE DOWN ON LAKESHORE SITTING IN TRAFFIC YOU HAVE THE CITY WITH LAKESHORE BOULEVARD. YOU HAVE THE PROVINCE DOING THE ONTARIO LINE AND YOU HAVE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOING THE FLOOD PROTECTION OF THE DON RIVER. AND YOU ASK YOURSELF WHO IS IN CHARGE? WHO'S COORDINATING THIS? THE ANSWER IS NOBODY. THESE ARE COMMON SENSE SOLUTIONS. MAKE SURE THAT SOMEBODY OWNS THAT PROBLEM AND IS IN CHARGE OF DELIVERING THE SOLUTIONS. THAT IS A PRACTICAL SOLUTION TO GET PEOPLE MOVING. I WILL HAVE MORE TO SAY. >> Steve: THANK YOU BRAD BRADFORD. OLIVIA CHOW, ON CONGESTION. >> Olivia Chow: YOU CAN FEEL THE LEVEL OF FRUSTRATION AND FEELING STRESSED OUT AS YOU'RE STUCK IN TRAFFIC. WHETHER IN A CAR OR ON A BUS. YOU CAN JUST LIKE AHHHH. AND IT COSTS OUR CITY $6 BILLION IN LOST PRODUCTIVITY. SO IT'S NOT JUST MENTAL HEALTH, IT'S ACTUAL DOLLARS. SO LET'S TACKLE CONGESTION BY THESE FOUR WAYS: BRING PEOPLE BACK TO TRANSIT, MAKE IT FASTER, RELIABLE AND SAFER. BUILD MORE MIXED USE NEIGHBOURHOODS SO PEOPLE CAN WORK AND LIVE CLOSE BY SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO COMMUTE TOO FAR. YOU HAVE BETTER CO-ORDINATION OF CONSTRUCTION. YES, IT'S VERY, VERY, VERY DISTURBING WHEN YOU SEE PYLONS AND SOMETHING HAPPENING ON THAT LANE THAT'S BEEN BLOCKED OFF OTHER THAN SOME PARKED CONSTRUCTION CARS THERE. AND LASTLY, LET'S BUILD CYCLING INFRASTRUCTURE. MAKE THE STREETS SAFER TO RIDE AND WALK, WHICH IS PART OF THE AIM OF MISSION ZERO. >> Steve: THAT'S OUR TIME. FORMER DAVENPORT CITY COUNCILLOR ANA BAILÃO. >> Ana Bailão: CONGESTION IS COSTING OUR FAMILIES TIME AND EACH OTHER. IT'S COSTING BUSINESS PRODUCTIVITY AND IT'S WHY WE NEED TO DEAL WITH IT URGENTLY. FIRST THING WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE FEEL SAFE TO COME BACK TO THE TTC. THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO BRING STAFF BACK, EYES, AND EARS, RESTORE SERVICES HAVE MORE CAMERAS, HAVE WI-FI. MAKE SURE THE TTC WE HAVE TODAY IS SAFE AND PEOPLE RETURN TO USE THE TTC. THEN WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DEAL WITH THE CONGESTION ON OUR STREETS, THE CONSTRUCTION THAT WE HAVE. WE EXTEND THE CONSTRUCTION HOURS SO THAT THAT CAN HAPPEN QUICKER AND GET THE CONSTRUCTION OUT OF THE WAY. AND THAT WE USE TECHNOLOGY AS WELL. WHY AREN'T OUR RED CAMERAS CONNECTED TO TICKETING? SO THAT WHEN SOMEBODY IS BLOCKING THE INTERSECTION, ACTUALLY GETS A TICKET. I WILL DO THAT. I WILL ALSO MAKE SURE THAT OUR VERY SUCCESSFUL RUSHHOUR TICKET AND TOWING GETS EXPANDED CITY-WIDE AND IT'S DONE ON A PERMANENT BASIS, AS WELL. IT'S A MIXTURE OF THINGS THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS. >> Steve: THANK YOU ANA BAILÃO, JOSH MATLOW, LAST WORD ON THIS? >> Josh Matlow: I DON'T ACCEPT THAT CONSTRUCTION SHOULD HAVE A GOD-GIVEN RIGHT TO TAKE OVER OUR LANES FOR TWO TO THREE YEARS AT A TIME. I I DON'T ACCEPT THAT IF SOME SELFISH IDIOT THINKS THAT THEIR COFFEE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN EVERYBODY BEHIND THEM THAT THEY SHOULDN'T BE FIND BECAUSE IF THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT US THEY MIGHT CARE ABOUT THEIR OWN POCKETBOOK. I DON'T ACCEPT THAT METROLINX SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO CREATE SUCH A MESS ON STREETS LIKE EGLINTON AND I'M REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THEY MIGHT DO ON THE ONTARIO LINE IF THEY'RE NOT HELD TO ACCOUNT. AND I'M GOING TO DO THAT AS MAYOR. THEY NEED MORE MORE OVERSIGHT. THEY NEED MORE TRANSPARENCY. THEY'VE TREATED NEIGHBOURHOODS AND SMALL BUSINESSES LIKE COLLATERAL DAMAGE AND THAT'S NOT ACCEPTABLE. I WILL BE BUILDING AND EXPANDING TRANSIT IN SCARBOROUGH AND ACROSS THE CITY IN A REALISTIC EVIDENCE-BASED WAY THAT'S FUNDED. I WILL BE REVERSING THE CUTS TO THE TTC BECAUSE ULTIMATELY IF WE HAVE A MULTIMODAL CITY WHERE YOU CAN WALK, BIKE, TAKE TRANSIT WHERE IT'S SAFE, RELIABLE AND AFFORDABLE THEN WE BECOME LESS OF THE TRAFFIC WE'RE FRUSTRATED WITH AND IN THE MIDST OF. >> Steve: THANK YOU JOSH MATLOW. MARK SAUNDERS YOU GET THE FIRST KICK AT THIS. WE HEARD AN IDEA FROM BRAD BRADFORD ABOUT A SO-CALLED CONGESTION TSAR. A NEW POSITION TO OVERSEE ALL THIS TO MAKE SOME PROGRESS WHAT DO YOU BY ABOUT THAT IDEA? >> Mark Saunders: THAT IS PART OF MY PLATFORM, TOO. TOO MANY TIMES THE SIDEWALK AND ROADS GET RIPPED UP AND PUT BACK IN THEN ANOTHER UTILITY COMES IN AND GOES BACK IN. MAKING SURE THERE'S NOW ACCOUNTABILITY TO BE SEAMLESS AND HAVING ALL OF THOSE UTILITIES. BUT I ALSO WANT TO SPEAK ABOUT THE FACT THAT TECHNOLOGY IS SOMETHING THAT IS IMPORTANT. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT GRIDLOCK. AND BUILDING FASTER. MAKING SURE THAT WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY OF DOUBLE SHIFTING OR CONTINUOUSLY WORKING AROUND THE CLOCK TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CLEAR UP THE TRAFFIC. WE CAN'T BE NUMBER ONE IN THE COUNTRY. IT AFFECTS BUSINESS. AND THE OTHER THING, WHEN IT'S POLITICALLY-LED AGENDAS, PUTTING BIKE LANES IN CERTAIN AREAS, COMPROMISING THE DEVELOPMENT AND CREATION OF SMALL BUSINESSES, IF OUR SMALL BUSINESSES FAIL, THEN OUR CITY FAILS. OUR ECONOMY FAILS. BIG BUSINESS WON'T COME IN WHEN THEY WATCH SMALL BUSINESSES FAIL. >> Steve: OLIVIA CHOW? >> Olivia Chow: Mr. SAUNDERS' WHOLE THING IS ABOUT PROTECTION AND SAFETY. WHAT ABOUT CYCLIST SAFETY? WE KNOW DEATH HAPPENS WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE GOOD INFRASTRUCTURE. AND MISSISSAUGA, WHEN HE WAS THE CHIEF TOOK OUT THE TRAFFIC COPS. AND GUESS WHAT? THE ROADS GOT A LOT WORSE IN TERMS OF CONGESTION. AND THE TICKETING, THE NUMBER OF COPS FELL TO AN ALL-TIME LOW OF 20 IN 2018 DURING THE TIME WHEN HE WAS THE CHIEF. AND HAS HAD DEATHLY CONSEQUENCES AND IT CAUSED EVEN MORE CONGESTION. >> Steve: LET ME GIVE HIM A CHANCE TO RESPOND TO THAT. >> Mark Saunders: MISS CHOW, WITH A DUE RESPECT I'M NOT AGAINST BIKE LANES BUT I'M AGAINST SOME INITIATIVES. WHEN I GO TO KINGSWAY BLOOR WEST THEY DID NOT WANT IT YET THEY'RE TRYING TO JAM IT TOWARD THERE. DOING IT RIGHT AND DOING IT SAFE IS ABSOLUTELY SOMETHING TO DO. EGLINTON WEST, IT WORKS WELL. ELSEWHERE, IT WORKS. SO THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY OF DOING IT. BUT THE HOW. YOU KNOW, MISS CHOW, GETTING BACK TO YOU, YOU AND THE SEAT IT'S ALL ABOUT TAXES. WE ALREADY KNOW THAT BUT YOU WON'T TALK ABOUT THAT BECAUSE WE ALREADY KNOW WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO GO. IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD LIVING RIGHT NOW I GUARANTEE YOU OLIVIA CHOW -- >> Olivia Chow: YOU TALK ABOUT RIPPING UP BIKE LANES COSTS A LOT OF MONEY IT'S WASTING MONEY MONEY IS ALREADY PUT TO BUILD THE BIKE LANE YOU WANT TO RIP IT UP THAT'S CALLED WASTING TAXPAYERS' DOLLARS. >> Steve: JOSH MATLOW GOT A LITTLE COURT CHANGED IN THE LAST SEGMENT SO I WILL GIVE HIM A LITTLE EXTRA TIME HERE TO TALK ABOUT HOW YOU WOULD -- I UNDERSTAND EVERYBODY'S VERY CONCERNED ABOUT COMMUTERS, ABOUT DRIVERS, ABOUT CYCLISTS AND SO ON, PEDESTRIANS, TORONTO REGION BOARD OF TRADE IS ONE OF OUR COSPONSORS HERE. THE MOVEMENT OF GOODS AND SERVICES, WE CAN'T DO IT IN THIS CITY RIGHT NOW. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? >> Josh Matlow: THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY, STEVE. BECAUSE THAT WAS THE POINT THAT I WAS MAKING A MOMENT AGO. YOU KNOW, WHEN WE'RE DRIVING, WHEN WE'RE DRIVING OUR CARS IN THE STREETS OF TORONTO, WHEN WE'RE TRYING TO MOVE GOODS AND SERVICES AROUND OR JUST TRYING TO GET TO SCHOOL OR WORK OR WHEREVER WE'RE TRYING TO GET TO AND WE'RE FRUSTRATED WITH THAT DRIVER IN FRONT OF US, WE'RE FRUSTRATED WITH THE TRAFFIC THAT WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF, IF WE'RE TO BE HONEST WITH OURSELVES WE'RE PART OF THAT TRAFFIC. WE'RE PART OF THE REASON THAT WE'RE ALL FRUSTRATED BUT IF YOU CREATE MORE OPPORTUNITIES AND MORE OPTIONS FOR PEOPLE TO GET AROUND THE CITY WHETHER IT BE BY FOOT, WHETHER IT BE BY BIKE. AND IF YOU INVEST IN THE WAY THAT THEY CUT THE TTC WAS SO WRONG. BECAUSE IT ACTUALLY DISENCOURAGED PEOPLE FROM USING THAT AS AN OPTION. I MEAN, IMAGINE IF THERE WAS A RESTAURANT THAT DECIDED TO GIVE YOU AWFUL SERVICE AND THEN UPPED THE MENU PRICES, YOU'D NEVER GO BACK. WE NEED TO DO THE OPPOSITE WITH THE TTC. WE NEED TO MAKE IT THE BETTER WAY. AND ULTIMATELY, IF WE REALLY WANT TO DEAL WITH CONGESTION, WE NEED TO HAVE PEOPLE HAVE OPTIONS TO NOT DRIVE AND USE DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET AROUND OUR CITY. >> Steve: BRAD BRADFORD, THEN ANA BAILÃO. >> Brad Bradford: THE QUESTION WAS, AND I THINK IT'S AN IMPORTANT ONE AND ONE THAT THE BOARD OF TRADE HAS IDENTIFIED, HOW ARE GOODS GOING TO MOVE? HOW ARE WE GOING TO DEAL WITH ALL THE TRUCKING AND LOGISTICS IN TORONTO? PEOPLE FORGET THAT THE TORONTO-ROCHESTER, QUEBEC CORRIDORS IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST SHIPPING CORRIDORS IN NORTH AMERICA. WE HAVE ACTIVE PORTS, AND MANUFACTURING FACILITYIES ACROSS THE SOUTHERN PORTION OF TORONTO AND THOSE GOODS HAVE TO MOVE. THERE ARE CANDIDATES ON THE STAGE -- OLIVIA CHOW AND JOSH MATLOW THAT WANT TO TEAR DOWN THE GARDINER, PART OF THAT CRITICAL LINK BUT YOU DON'T WANT TO REBUILD IT. >> Josh Matlow: THAT IS FACTUALLY INCORRECT. >> Brad Bradford: I WANT EVERYONE TO UNDERSTAND. [Overlapping Discourse] . >> Steve: HANG ON,. >> Brad Bradford: WHEN YOU REMOVE SERVICES THROUGHOUT THE CITY THIS WOULD ADD SIGNIFICANT DELAY TO A DECISION MADE IN 2015. YOU WOULD TAKE AN ELEVATED EXPRESSWAY, BUILD A RAMP DOWN A GRADE FOR 240 METRES AND THEN YOU WOULD RAMP IT BACK UP TO THE OTHER ELEVATED EXPRESSWAY. THAT'S LUDICROUS. IT WILL COST US HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS MORE. MORE YEARS OF TIME AND DELAY AND MORE TRAFFIC FOR EVERYBODY AND FURTHER CONGESTION WE NEED PRACTICAL SOLUTIONS TO GET TORONTONIANS MOVING. AND TEARING DOWN THE GARDINER ISN'T ONE OF THEM. [Overlapping Discourse] . >> Steve: YOU WILL GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TO THAT. ANA BAILÃO, MITZIE HUNTER, JOSH MATLOW, MARK SAUNDERS A. >> Ana Bailão: I'M GLAD THAT BRAD COVERED THE GARDINER ISSUE BECAUSE I KNOW THAT'S WHAT THE TORONTO BOARD OF TRADE WAS LOOKING FOR. WE HAVE POLITICAL WE NEED A CYCLING NETWORK. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT ME NEED A CYCLING NETWORK. THE SAME WAY WE MOVE OUR TTC AND OUR CARS. WE CAN'T HAVE BIKE LANES IN EVERY MAJOR ROAD. WE CAN'T. I KNOW THAT IN MY COMMUNITY, THERE WAS A PUSH TO HAVE A BIKE LANE ON DUFFERIN BECAUSE WE NEEDED A NORTH-SOUTH ROUTE. BUT THAT IS ALSO THE BUSIEST BUS ROUTE THAT WE HAVE AND WE HAD TO SAY NO. WE HAD TO PUT IT ON ONE OF THE SIDE AREAS. AND WE NEED PRAGMATIC AND COMMON SENSE SOLUTIONS AND WHAT WE HAVE IS CUT IT ALL EVERYWHERE, CUT IT NOWHERE AND RIP IT APART. THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE. WE NEED COMMON SENSE AND PRAGMATISM. >> Steve: STAND BY, EVERYBODY, MITZIE HUNTER YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. [Overlapping Discourse] . >> Mitzie Hunter: GETTING THE CITY MOVING IS -- THERE ARE MANY THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO DO TO ADDRESS CONGESTION. THE SERVICES, YOU KNOW, FILLING THE POT HOLES, MAKING SURE THAT THE SNOW IS CLEARED. SO THAT PEOPLE CAN GET AROUND AND MOVIESY IN OUR CITY, WE HAVE TO INVEST IN THAT. WE CAN'T DECLINE IN OUR SERVICES AND THEN EXPECT THAT THINGS WILL BE DIFFERENT. SO I DO HAVE A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT IS FULLY COSTED. THAT WILL ADDRESS THINGS LIKE THAT CONGESTION, MAKING SURE WE GET RID OF THE BOTTLE NECKS AND ALSO THAT WE DO INVEST IN PUBLIC TRANSIT SO PEOPLE CAN GET OUT OF THEIR CARS AND INTO PUBLIC TRANSIT. THAT, TOO, WILL RELIEVE THE CONGESTION. >> Steve: JOSH MATLOW YOU WANTED TO RESPOND TO BRAD BRADFORD. >> Josh Matlow: YES, I FIND THAT THESE KIND OF DEBATES ARE SO UNFAIR TO TORONTONIANS BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT FACTUAL OR REAL WHEN YOU HEAR STUFF LIKE THAT. THERE IS NO DEBATE ON WHETHER OR NOT THE EASTERN SECTION OF THE GARDINER -- AT LEAST PAST CHERRY IS GOING TO COME DOWN BECAUSE IT'S CRUMBLING IT'S UNSAFE. THERE IS NO ACTUAL DEBATE ON THAT. EVERYONE AGREES IT HAS TO. THE REAL QUESTION IS AND THE ONLY QUESTION IS WHAT DO WE DO WITH IT FROM THERE? DO WE PUT IT UP IN AN ELEVATED WAY LIKE THEY DID IN THE 1950s? THAT'S OLD PLANNING. THAT'S NOT THE WAY CITIES AROUND THE WORLD DO IT. WE WOULD STICK OUT LIKE A SORE THUMB INTERNATIONALLY IF WE DID THAT. THE BEST WAY FORWARD IS TO NOT ONLY BUILD IT ON THE GROUND BUT SAVE LITERALLY HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND PUT IT TOWARD, YES, OPENING LIBRARIES, OPENING SCHOOLS AFTER HOURS, INVESTING IN TRANSIT, INVESTING IN HOUSING. INVESTING IN THINGS THAT MATTER TO US AND THEN ULTIMATELY OPEN UP 5.4 ACRES OF LAND FOR NEW HOUSING. >> Steve: MARK SAUNDERS HAS THE FLOOR. [Overlapping Discourse] . >> Steve: MARK SAUNDERS, PLEASE. >> Mark Saunders: I WANT TO BE CLEAR. MY PLAN ABOUT BIKE LANES IS SIMPLE. IT CAN BE DONE IF YOU WORK WITH THE COMMUNITIES WHERE IT'S GOING TO HAVE AN EFFECT. MY PLAN IS TO TAKE OUT UNIVERSITY BECAUSE UNIVERSITY AVENUE SECONDS MATTER. YOU DON'T NEED TO ADD AN EXTRA LAYER OF TRAFFIC WHEN PEOPLE ARE COMING IN AND IT'S LIFE OR DEATH SITUATIONS AND THEY'RE MAKING SURE WE SUSPEND FURTHER DISCUSSIONS FORTUNATELY WE HAVE THE RIGHT PLAN. BUT SPEAKING OF Mr. BRADFORD AND HISTORY IDEAS OF WHAT TO DO. I HAVE NEVER HEARD HIM ADDRESS ANY ONE OF THEM AT CITY HALL BUT THE ONE I LIKE BEST IN IS APRIL 2020 WE WERE STILL HANDING VACCINATIONS OUT AND HE WANTED TO EXPLORE THE IDEA OF HEATED BIKE LANES HOW ABOUT SPENDING TAXPAYERS' MONEY ON THAT. >> Steve: I HAVE TO GIVE HIM A CHANCE TO RESPOND YOU GET THE LAST COMMENT IN THE STATEMENT. >> Brad Bradford: MARK'S RECORD ON CITY BUILDING IS ZERO. IT'S ACTUALLY WORSE THAN HIS RECORD ON BEING A FAILED POLICE CHIEF BECAUSE HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING. WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE SAFE INFRASTRUCTURE FOR EVERYBODY IN THIS CITY. WE NEED TO UNCLOG THE CONGESTION THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE TIED UP FOR HOURS IN GRIDLOCK, WE NEED TO MAKE THE TTC SAFER AND MORE RELIABLE. WE NEED TO CREATE WALKABLE COMMUNITIES SO PEOPLE HAVE OPTIONS TO GET AROUND THEIR NEIGHBOURHOOD IN A SAFE WAY. AND BUILD INFRASTRUCTURE. >> Steve: WE HAVE ONE SEGMENT LEFT AND THAT IS ON THE QUESTION OF DEMOCRACY. WANT TO TALK DEMOCRATIC ENGAGEMENT. I'M THRILLED THAT WE HAVE A FULL HALL HERE AT VICTORIA UNIVERSITY AT U. OF T. [APPLAUSE] YOU SHOULD GIVE YOURSELVES A HAND. I LOVE THE DEMOCRATIC ENGAGEMENT IN THIS ROOM. BUT THERE MAY NOT BE THAT MUCH OF IT OUTSIDE THIS ROOM AND THAT DOES TROUBLE ME. THERE IS EVERY POSSIBILITY THAT ONLY A QUARTER OF THE ELIGIBLE CITIZENS WILL VOTE IN THIS ELECTION. AND I WONDER IF WE COULD HAVE SOME IDEAS -- AND MARK SAUNDERS, YOU GET IS TO GO FIRST IN THIS ROUND. CAN WE HAVE SOME IDEAS ABOUT GETTING MORE PEOPLE ENGAGED IN LOCAL DEMOCRACY? A MINUTE TO YOU. >> Mark Saunders: YES, ABSOLUTELY. YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I'M RUNNING FOR MAYOR IS BECAUSE THERE IS A CLEAR DISCONNECT BETWEEN THE COMMUNITY THAT GOVERNMENT IS SERVING AND THE DISCUSSIONS HAD AT CITY HALL. TIME AFTER TIME I LISTEN TO THESE DISCUSSIONS AND THEY MAKE NO SENSE. WHEN I WAS A POLICE OFFICER, RUNNING THE STREETS TIME AFTER TIME, LOOKING AT THE SITUATIONS AND DEALING WITH THEM IN REAL-TIME AND THEN LISTENING TO THE POLICIES AND THE VICIOUS DECISIONS BEING MADE, THERE WAS AN ABSOLUTE DISCONNECT. SO THE FIRST RULE RULE OF GOOD GOVERNANCE IS HAVING VALUE. AND I'M NOT SEEING IT. IT'S ABOUT LEADERSHIP. IT'S ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT YOU PRIORITIZE WHAT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY TO CREATE THE ENVIRONMENT FOR A HEALTHY, PROSPEROUS CITY OF TORONTO. I DON'T SEE IT. ALL THE DECISIONS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE ARE COMPLETELY DISCONNECTED. SO FIRST AND FOREMOST, IN ORDER TO GENERATE INTEREST, PEOPLE HAVE TO BE INTERESTED. I WILL BE OUT IN THE COMMUNITIES AND SERVING THE COMMUNITIES. I HAVE PROJECT 224 WHERE I WILL DO 200 FLIGHTS OF STAIRS AND WALK A MINIMUM 24 MILES TALKING TO PEOPLE DOING A GUT CHECK TO MAKE SURE -- >> Steve: A MINUTE ON DEMOCRACY, LOCAL DEMOCRACY. >> Brad Bradford: WHEN I WORKED IN THE CHIEF PLANNER'S OFFICE I WOULD SIT IN THERE AND WE WOULD DO THE WORK EVERY DAY. BUT I WAS FRUSTRATED BY WHAT I SAW IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBER. ENDLESS DEBATE, DEFERRAL AND DELAY. I RAN FOR COUNCIL IN 2018. I WAS ELECTED. AND I SAW MORE OF THE SAME. POLITICIANS WHO CAN'T MAKE A DECISION. CONSTANTLY PUNTING THE ISSUES DOWN THE FIELD BECAUSE THE JOKE IS THE BEST WAY TO GET REELECTED IS TO DO NOTHING AT ALL. THAT'S FRUSTRATING. I HAVE BEEN THERE FOR FOUR YEARS. LONG ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON. BUT NOT SO LONG THAT I HAVE BEEN THE AUTHOR OF ALL THE PROBLEMS. WHY ARE PEOPLE NOT ENGAGED? THEY'RE NOT ENGAGED BECAUSE THEY DON'T FEEL LIKE ANYTHING EVER CHANGED. WE SPENT AN HOUR AND A HALF AT COUNCIL DEBATING WHETHER OR NOT TO RENAME SMART TRACK STATIONS SMART TRACKS. WE SPENT OVER AN HOUR ANALYSING COUNCILLOR MATLOW'S TWEETS ADMONISHING STAFF. WE SPENT THREE HOURS RE-LITIGATING THE GARDINER DEBATE BREXIT FROM 2015. >> Steve: THANK YOU, OLIVIA CHOW, THE FLOOR IS YOURS. >> Olivia Chow: I WILL OPEN UP CITY HALL TO PEOPLE BECAUSE WE ARE STRONGER TOGETHER. I WON'T OPERATE IN BACK ROOMS THAT NOW HAVE DOUG FORD'S LUXURY MEGA MACHINERY WRECKING OUR WATER FRONT OR THE DESTRUCTION OF THE SCIENCE CENTRE AS PROPOSED BY SOME OF THE CANDIDATES HERE. I SUPPORT RANKED BALLOTS AND ALSO OPEN UP THE BUDGET PROCESS SO LOCAL PEOPLE HAVE MORE SAY. I WILL NOT USE STRONG MAYOR'S POWER. IT'S ABOUT THE POWER OF IDEAS AND THE PROGRAMS. IT'S ABOUT A STRONG MAYOR THAT CAN BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER. THAT'S WHAT POWER IS ALL ABOUT. DOUG FORD SHOULD NOT GET A CHANCE AND WILL NOT GET A CHANCE TO CHOOSE OUR MAYOR, WE DO. AND DOUG FORD, LIKE THE STATUS QUO, IS NOT WORKING OUT VERY WELL. LATE CHANGE THAT RIGHT NOW. >> Steve: ANA BAILÃO, A MINUTE TO YOU. >> Ana Bailão: THANK YOU. WELL, I WILL NOT IMPOSE THE WILL OF -- MY WILL ON COUNCIL BECAUSE I HAVE ALWAYS WORKED WITH COUNCIL. THAT'S WHY I HAVE FIVE COUNCILLORS SUPPORTING ME TO BE THE NEXT MAYOR OF TORONTO BECAUSE I CAN GET THINGS DONE AND BRING COUNCIL TOGETHER. AND WE BRING -- YOU NEED TO ENGAGE PEOPLE AS WELL. ENGAGEMENT DOESN'T START AT ELECTION TIME. IT STARTS BEFORE THE ELECTION TIME. WITH THINGS LIKE PARTICIPATORY BUDGET WHERE PEOPLE ACTUALLY HAVE SOME SAY IN AN AMOUNT OF MONEY. WHEN I HAD THE LANEWAY HOUSING CONSULTATIONS WE ACTUALLY BROUGHT PEOPLE TO THOSE CONSULTATIONS. YOU KNOW WHY? BECAUSE THEY SAW THE IMPACT IT WAS GOING TO HAVE ON THEIR LIFE AND THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO COMMUNICATE BETTER IS THE IMPACT WE'RE HAVING ON THEIR LIFE AND THE IMPACT WE'RE HAVING ON THIS ELECTION. ARE WE GOING TO HAVE A MAYOR WHO WILL BE THE PREMIER'S PUPPET OR A MAYOR WHO WILL BE THE OFFICIAL OPPOSITION TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT OR ARE WE GOING TO HAVE SOMEBODY THAT, YES, IS GOING TO PRESENT A BUDGET TO THE COUNCIL AND STAND BY IT AND IS GOING TO HOLD STAFF ACCOUNTABLE BUT WILL WORK WITH COUNCIL TO GET THINGS DONE? >> Steve: JOSH MATLOW, TO YOU, PLEASE. >> Josh Matlow: I UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE DON'T VOTE WHEN THEY FEEL COMPLETELY DISMISSED. WHEN DOUG FORD SIMPLY GOES AHEAD AND PRIVATIZES OUR WATER FRONT AT ONTARIO PLACE, WHEN HE DOESN'T EVEN MEET WITH THE KIDS AND PARENTS WHO LIVE IN THORNCLIFFE PARK ABOUT THE IMPACT IT HAS ON THEIR EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES AND JOBS, WHEN HE WANTS TO MOVE THE SCIENCE CENTRE. WHEN HE DECIDES TO SELL OFF THE GREENBELT THAT HIS END FROMS AT HIS STAG AND DOE PARTIES THAT MARK SAUNDERS ATTENDS, THAT'S WHAT LETS PEOPLE BECOME MORE CYNICAL ABOUT POLITICS AND ABOUT DEMOCRACY ITSELF. NOW, I'M ACTUALLY UNLIKE THE OTHER CANDIDATES NOT AS CONCERNED ABOUT CHALLENGING MARK SAUNDERS' HISTORY AS POLICE CHIEF. I DON'T LIKE IT. BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S ACTUALLY THAT RELEVANT TODAY. WHAT I AM CONCERNED ABOUT IS THAT IF HE IS ELECTED MAYOR, HE WOULD USE THOSE ANTI DEMOCRATIC STRONG MAYOR POWERS THAT JUST DISMISS THE TENETS MUCH DEMOCRACY AND DO ANYTHING DOUG FORD TELLS HIM TO DO. >> Steve: THANK YOU, MITZIE HUNTER, A MINUTE TO YOU. >> Mitzie Hunter: SO THIS WEEKEND I MET AND 11-YEAR-OLD GIRL AND SHE ASKED ME HOW OLD DO YOU HAVE TO BE TO BE PART OF A CAMPAIGN? AND I SAID YOU CAN START NOW. AND SHE CAME UP WITH A SLOGAN FOR ME: A VOTE FOR MITZIE IS A VOTE FOR CHANGE AND WE RALLIED AROUND THAT. LOCAL DEMOCRACY IS ABOUT ENGAGEMENT AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I HAVE DONE AS THE MPP FOR SCARBOROUGH-GUILDWOODWOOD I HAVE PUT TOGETHER RANKED BALLOTS FOR LOCAL ELECTIONS WE NEED TO STRENGTHEN PEOPLE'S LOCAL VOICE NOT USE STRONG MAYOR POWERS LIKE MARK AND ANA AND OTHERS WANT TO DO BECAUSE THAT DIMINISHES THE VOICE OF COUNCILLORS. I WILL NOT USE THOSE POWERS INSTEAD I WILL WORK WITH COUNCIL ON THE PRIORITIES WE WANT TO ACHIEVE TOGETHER BECAUSE IF YOU BULLY YOUR WAY THROUGH TO DECISIONS WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ON IMPLEMENTATION? WHO IS GOING TO LISTEN? SO WE NEED MORE ENGAGEMENT SO THAT BEAM IN OUR COMMUNITIES KNOW THAT THEIR VOICE COUNTS AND THAT THEIR VOICE MATTERS. >> Steve: I AM CALLING DID YOU GO TO THE STAG AND DOE? >> Mark Saunders: I DID NOT GO. THE FACT YOU MADE THIS UP THREE TIMES SHOWS YOU THE QUALITY OF PERSON HERE RUNNING FOR MAYOR. >> Steve: THANK YOU WE HAVE FACT CHECK THAT HAD AND NOW WE'RE INTO THE FINAL SPEECHES. >> Mark Saunders: MY WIFE IS MY FIRST WITNESS BECAUSE I WAS WITH HER. >> Steve: EACH OF YOU HAVE THE CHANCE TO SEAL THE DEAL IN YOUR CLOSING STATEMENTS BRAD BRADFORD YOU HAVE NOT HAD THE CHANCE TO GO FIRST TONIGHT. WANT TO GO FIRST OR LAST? >> Brad Bradford: WE'LL BRING IT HOME. >> Steve: DOWN THE ROAD OLIVIA CHOW, YOU WANT TO GO FIRST? >> Olivia Chow: AFTER A LONG PANDEMIC WE NEED TO GET TORONTO MOVING AGAIN. AND THE OLD APPROACH IS JUST NOT WORKING. TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE FEELING STUCK. STUCK IN TRAFFIC, STUCK WAITING FOR BUS STOPS, WAITING FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING. STUCK EVEN WAITING FOR 911. OR THIS IS MORE, TRYING TO GET THE CUSTOMERS TO RETURN OR ATTRACT NEW TALENT TO COME TO YOUR BUSINESS. YOU'RE STUCK BECAUSE LIFE IS NOT AFFORDABLE. WITH ME AS YOUR MAYOR YOU WON'T BE STUCK ANYMORE. LET'S NURTURE ALL THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT ARE GROWING HERE IN TORONTO. LET'S GET A BETTER DEAL FOR TORONTO. BUILD A STRONG, CARING AND SAFE CITY WHERE EVERYONE BELONGS. >> Steve: THANK YOU OLIVIA CHOW. FORMER DAVENPORT CITY COUNCILLOR ANA BAILÃO. >> Ana Bailão: THANK YOU. I LOVE THIS CITY AND I KNOW YOU DO, TOO. I WANT EVERY 15-YEAR-OLD IN THE CITY TO HAVE THE SAME FEELING OF OPPORTUNITY THAT I HAD WHEN I FIRST GOT HERE. THE OPPORTUNITY THAT GAVE MY PARENTS A CONSTRUCTION WORKER AND A SEAMSTRESS TO OWN A HOME FOR US THAT LET TO MY OPPORTUNITY TO BE A CITY COUNCILLOR AND DEPUTY MAYOR. I HAVE THE EXPERIENCE, THE TRACK RECORD AND A PLAN TO FIX SERVICES, BUILD HOMES, TO MAKE LIFE EASIER AND MORE AFFORDABLE FOR US. WE NEED A BETTER DEAL FOR THE CITY OF TORONTO. AND WE NEED A MAYOR THAT KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE DOING. I HAVE THE SUPPORT OF COUNCILLORS AND MPS AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO WORKING WITH THEM TO GET IT DONE. I'VE DONE IT BEFORE, GETTING BILLIONS ON HOUSING FOR THE CITY. I WILL DO IT AGAIN, AS MAYOR. IF YOU WANT TO LEARN MORE ABOUT MY PLAN YOU CAN GO TO THAT THAT.CA. AND ON JUNE 26th, I WANT YOUR SUPPORT TO BE THE NEXT MAYOR. >> Steve: JOSH MATLOW? >> Jeff: I APOLOGIZE TO MARK SAUNDERS IT WAS ACTUALLY THE PREMIER DAUGHTER'S WEDDING WITH DEVELOPER WHO IS BENEFITED FROM THE GREENBELT. >> Josh Matlow: MY NAME IS JOSH MATLOW AND I HOPE THAT I CAN EARN YOUR VOTE. I REALLY BELIEVE THAT A BETTER TORONTO IS POSSIBLE. I KNOW THAT WE CAN FOCUS ON SAFETY AND AFFORDABILITY. AND LIVEABLE IN A REAL WAY TO ADDRESS THE SERVICES THAT HAVE DECLINED FOR FAR TOO MANY YEARS. BUT I'M THE ONLY CANDIDATE WHO'S ACTUALLY COME FORWARD WITH A PLAN THAT'S REALISTIC. THAT'S PRAGMATIC. THAT'S COSTED AND THAT I CAN DEMONSTRATE TO YOU HOW I'M GOING TO PAY FOR IT. OLIVIA, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT IS $100 MILLION IN THE HOLE. AND THERE ARE OTHER CANDIDATES. >> Steve: JOSH, FORGIVE ME THAT'S TIME. MITZIE HUNTER, PLEASE, TO YOU. >> Mitzie Hunter: SO I COMMITTED TO THE VOTERS, BUT I WOULD PUT FORWARD A FULLY COSTED PLAN BEFORE VOTING BEGINS. AND TWO WEEKS FROM TODAY, ON JUNE THE 8th, THE EARLY VOTING BEGINS. I HAVE PUT FORWARD MY PLAN. IT'S AVAILABLE ON MY WEBSITE MYTHS IFORMAYOR.CA. IT'S FULLY COSTED, TRANSPARENT. BECAUSE I WANT THE VOTERS TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE GETTING WHEN THEY VOTE FOR ME AS THEIR MAYOR. I WILL ENSURE THAT THESE SIX PRIORITIES ARE DONE. I HAVE THE EXPERIENCE. AS A FORMER CABINET MINISTER OF SOME OF THE MOST COMPLEX PORTFOLIOS, I HAVE SAT ACROSS TOE TO TOE WITH DOUG FORD. AND I WILL BE TORONTO'S ADVOCATE WHEN IT COMES TO FAIR AND FULL FUNDING. WHETHER AT THE PROVINCIAL OR THE FEDERAL LEVEL. >> Steve: THAT'S TIME I'M AFRAID. MARK SAUNDERS TO YOU, PLEASE. >> Mark Saunders: THANKS, THANK YOU. THANKS, JOSH. LISTEN, IN 38 YEARS OF PUBLIC SERVICE SERVING THE CITY THAT I LOVE AND RAISING MY FAMILY I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR GIVING ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE HERE. I'M RUNNING FOR MAYOR BECAUSE I DO NOT LIKE THE STATUS QUO. I DO NOT LIKE HOW YOUR MONEY IS BEING SPENT AND WHETHER IT'S 1.8% INCREASE WHEN WE NEED TO BE BUILDING AND BUILDING FAST. WHEN WE NEED TO HAVE A LEADER THAT BUILDS ON CONSENSUS BUT IF NECESSARY MAKES A TOUGH DECISION. THAT'S WHY I'M RUNNING. ON JUNE 26th, IF YOU WANT A CITY THAT IS VIBRANT, A CITY THAT UNDERSTANDS OUR FUTURE WHERE NEWCOMERS ARE COPPING IN AND COMING IN FAST WE NEED TO GET THE CITY AT THE RIGHT RESET BUTTON AND WE NEED TO DO IT RIGHT NOW. THE NEXT FEW YEARS WILL BE CRITICAL. THE WRONG LEADERSHIP WILL PUT US LIKE ALL OF THE OTHER CITIES RIGHT NOW WE DESERVE BETTER. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE BOOK, EXPERIENCE LEADERSHIP GETTING THE JOB DONE. >> Steve: THANK YOU, MARK SAUNDERS. BRAD BRADFORD, TO YOU. >> Brad Bradford: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING OUT TONIGHT, EVERYONE, I REALLY APPRECIATE T MY NAME'S BRAD BRADFORD AND I WANT TO BE YOUR NEXT MAYOR OF THE CITY OF TORONTO. TONIGHT WE SAW A CONTRAST THAT COULDN'T BE MORE CLEAR. OTHER CANDIDATES PROMISED MASSIVE NEW SPENDING PROGRAMS WITH NO HONEST EXPLANATION ON HOW TO PAY FOR IT. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS. THEY'RE GOING TO SKY ROCKET YOUR TAXES WITH MONEY COMING OUT OF YOUR POCKETS. MOST TORONTONIANS CANNOT AFFORD OLIVIA CHOW'S 20% TAX HIKE DURING AN AFFORDABILITY CRISIS THAT IS SIMPLY UNFAIR FOR FAMILIES, NEW CANADIANS, AND SENIORS WHO ARE FIGHTING TO PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE. I WILL BE A STRONG MAYOR OF ACTION TO DELIVER MORE HOUSING, AFFORDABILITY AND UNLOCK THE GRIDLOCK THAT HAS GROUND THE SIT TOY A HALL. ON JUNE 26th VOTE FOR LESS TALK, MORE ACTION AND SOMEONE WHO WILL GET THE JOB DONE, BRAD BRADFORD. >> Steve: LADIES AND GENTLEMEN I FLOW YOU WANT TO JOIN ME IN THANKS THESE CANDIDATES WHO HAVE COME OUT TONIGHT. AND STICK AROUND FOR A SPECIAL THAT'S THE "THE AGENDA" COMING UP IN JUST A FEW MOMENTS, THANK YOU. [APPLAUSE] (♪♪♪) ♪ (Serene music) ♪ ♪ ♪ WOMAN: The very act of moving changed the course of my life even though I wasn't born there. YOUNG WOMAN: College is just a huge goal for a lot immigrant families. You want to go to college. I want to go to college. I have to be better than you. WOMAN 2: What makes China Town special is the strength and resilience of everybody here. We come here to protect our community! MAN: This is really a battle for the soul of China Town. ♪ One of the reasons why I love Los Angeles, it's got the world's biggest problems. ANNOUNCER: Mikael Colville-Andersen is back. That makes it dynamic, when you live in a city that's not perfect, and you still dream that it's gonna be better, right? Travelling the world to discover the secret of a livable metropolis. This is Los Angeles, this is ground zero for car-centric architecture. Personally, I've always had the impression that Berlin is a city that is greener than most. But like nowadays in Antwerp, this is called a park. How can you literally bring people back to the street? You have to get rid of the one-way streets. This is one of the cities in this series that makes me wonder if I'll even be able to find those golden nuggets of life-sized goodness that I cherish so much. The Life-Sized City, a TVO Original. Watch it online anytime. ANNOUNCER: Meet Ernie Dingo. Do you want me to fly it? No, thank you. I can! (Laughing) No. And let him take you on a unique journey across Australia. This would probably have to be one of my favourite places. Hang on, hang on, where you going? I'm going in there to feed the devils. With these fellows? Yeah. But it's not your regular travelogue. How do you fit it? A lot of people see you as a stranger, even in your own land. They love sharing stories, and bringing visitors into a place like this. Now you seen it, now you know it. Discover its remarkable people and their special connection to the land. I've never been this close to a cassowary. Nature is where we get our spirit from. It's a healing process. ♪ ANDREW SCOTT: Every year, spectacular seasons transform our planet. ♪ They're the driving force of all life on Earth-- ANNOUNCER: Join narrator Andrew Scott : ♪ ANNOUNCER: Explore more sides of a story. Consider it from a distinctly local point of view, with journalists who live in the region. Ontario Hubs. Discover more on TVO.org, and on The Agenda with Steve Paikin. ♪ (Bright, inspiring music) ♪ ♪ >> Steve: CONTINUING OUR COVERAGE HERE AT THE ISABEL PEDERSEN THEATRE AT VICTORIA UNIVERSITY ON THE DOWNTOWN CAMPUS OF THE UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO. I'M STEVE PAIKIN. WE HOPE YOU ENJOYED THE DEBATE. NOW WE'RE GOING TO GIVE YOU SOME POST DEBATE POST MORTEM. WITH US FOR THEIR REACTION TO THE TORONTO MAYORALTY DEBATE, LET'S WELCOME: JENNIFER KEESMAAT, FORMER CHIEF PLANNER FOR THE CITY OF TORONTO AND ONE-TIME MAYORAL CANDIDATE HERSELF, NOW PARTNER AT MARKEE DEVELOPMENTS; SABINE MATHESON, FOUNDER OF STRATEGYCORP'S MUNICIPAL PRACTICE GROUP; SABRINA MADDEAUX, POLITICAL COLUMNIST FOR THE NATIONAL POST; AND ALYSHAH HASHAM, CITY HALL REPORTER WITH THE TORONTO STAR. WE NORMALLY DON'T HAVE AN AUDIENCE IN THE STUDIO FOR "THE AGENDA." SINCE WE DO HERE, I'M TEMPTED TO ASK YOU TO GIVE THEM ALL A ROUND OF APPLAUSE TOO. OKAY, GOOD. [APPLAUSE] >> Steve: GOOD STUFF. OKAY. YOU'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS BEFORE SO NATURALLY I WANT TO START WITH YOU. YOU'VE BEEN ON A DEBATE STAGE. YOU KNOW WHAT THEY'VE BEEN THROUGH. HOW DID THEY DO? >> Jennifer: I ACTUALLY THINK THEY DID REALLY WELL. THE FIRST THING I'LL SAY IS THAT IT'S A LOT HARDER THAN IT LOOKS. IT'S REALLY TOUGH TO BE UP THERE AND I THINK ALL OF THEM DID EXTREMELY WELL. I THINK THERE'S SOME HIGHLIGHTS, DEFINITELY. THE TRICK IN A DEBATE IS GETTING PEOPLE OFF THEIR TALKING NOTES. I HEARD A LOT TONIGHT, THAT YOU CAN READ ON A WEBSITE, YOU'VE SEEN IT TWEETED BEFORE, YOU'VE HEARD IT IN A CONVERSATION BEFORE, AND THAT'S NOT REALLY THE INTERESTING PART. SO I THINK THE MOMENTS -- YOU KNOW, THE REPETITIVE BITS, MITZIE HUNTER WAS PRETTY REPETITIVE, SHE HAS COSTED THE BUDGET. THERE WERE THE REPETITIVE BITS AT OLIVIA CHOW ABOUT RAISING TAXES. IT'S NOT INFORMATIVE. IT DOESN'T ACTUALLY ENABLE PEOPLE TO WEIGH THE OPTIONS AND THE CHARACTER OF THESE DIFFERENT CANDIDATES. AND I THINK WHEN THEY REALLY GOT INTO THE MEAT OF IT, YOU STARTED TO SEE SOME OF THE PERSONALITIES ON STAGE, WHICH GIVES YOU A SENSE OF HOW THEY REALLY WORK TOGETHER, AS OPPOSED TO ACTUALLY JUST, YOU KNOW, HEARING HEARSAY ABOUT HOW THEY WORK TOGETHER OR THE TALKING NOTES THAT THEY HAVE. SO I WOULD SAY OVERALL, I THINK THERE'S SOME PRETTY GOOD TIDBITS FOR US TO EXTRACT FROM THAT DEBATE. I THINK WE HAVE SIX SUCCESSFUL CANDIDATES, WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAVE A GREAT TRACK RECORD OR NOT IS SOMETHING WE SHOULD LITIGATE IN THE NEXT HALF-HOUR. I'M COMPARING TO WHAT I SAW ON AMERICAN CONVERSATION AND THAT WAS A PRETTY DAMN GOOD CONVERSATION THAT JUST TOOK PLACE. YOU GET THEM TO DO30-SECOND COMR 60-SECOND COMMERCIALS BECAUSE ONE THING YOU PLAY IN A DEBATE IS RISK MITIGATION. YOUR KEY MESSAGES GET PUSHED OFF. WHAT'S REALLY FUN IS WHEN YOU ACTUALLY SEE THEM, A BIT OF SPARK, A BIT OF A SENSE OF HUMOUR BECAUSE YOU KNOW THE ROLE OF THE MAYOR, IT ISN'T LIKE THE ROLE OF THE PREMIER OR ANYBODY IN A WESTMINSTER SYSTEM. IT REALLY IS A HORSESHOE WITH, YOU KNOW, THE STRONG MAYOR POWERS NOTWITHSTANDING, IT'S A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER. AND SO I THINK IT'S RIGHT. THEY MANAGED TO DISAGREE WITHOUT BEING DISAGREEABLE TO A VERY LARGE MEASURE. YOU KNOW, A FEW SPARKS HERE AND THERE. I THOUGHT IT WAS PRETTY GOOD. IT WAS ALSO GOOD TO SEE A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY LOOKED LIKE WHAT YOU'D SEE ON A TTC SUBWAY CAR. DIVERSITY, YAY! AND IT SHOULDN'T BE TAKEN FOR GRANTED. I THINK IT WAS NICE. >> Steve: SABRINA? >> Sabrina: IT WAS NICE TO SEE THE PERSONALITIES AND THE BACK AND FORTH. WHEN VOTERS LOOK AT WHO TO ELECT, THEY LOOK AT TWO THINGS, YES, THERE'S THE POLICY AND THE PLATFORM AND DO YOU AGREE WITH THOSE. BEYOND THAT, IS THIS CANDIDATE LYING TO ME? WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO WHEN THERE ARE CHALLENGES OR UNEXPECTED CRISES? WHAT IS THEIR CHARACTER. AND HERE WE ACTUALLY GOT TO SEE A GLIMPSE OF THAT, I THINK PERHAPS REALLY FOR THE FIRST TIME, AND WE GOT TO SEE THE CANDIDATES BEYOND, AGAIN, WHAT'S JUST ON THEIR WEBSITES, AND I KNOW I WALKED AWAY FEELING LIKE I KNEW THEM BETTER AND WHO I WOULD TRUST MORE TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON SOME OF THESE CRITICAL ISSUES THAT WERE RAISED, AND I'M SURE A LOT OF VIEWERS FELT THE SAME. >> Steve: ALYSHA. >> Alyshah: I FEEL KIND OF LIKE ON A HOCKEY PANEL WATCHING WHAT HAPPENED. I'VE WATCHED FOUR OR FIVE DEBATES. YOU'RE HEARING THE SAME THING REPEATED OVER AND OVER AND SOME OF THE STORIES LOSE THEIR PASSION, YOU KNOW, FRIENDS IN BASEMENTS, ALL OF THOSE THINGS. BUT I THINK PEOPLE WHO AREN'T FOLLOWING IT VERY CLOSELY ARE NOT REALLY LOOKING FOR THE SORT OF STREAMS OF POLICY THINGS THAT MAYBE YOU ONLY UNDERSTAND IF YOU'RE LIKE FOLLOWING HOUSING VERY CLOSELY. THEY'RE LOOKING TO CONNECT TO PEOPLE. SABINE TALKED ABOUT TRUST. THEY'RE LOOKING TO SEE WHO REPRESENTS THEM. WE HEARD MOST POWERFUL THE PERSONAL STORIES OF THE CANDIDATES I THINK COME ACROSS REALLY WELL IN THESE DEBATES. WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO IMMIGRATED HERE, WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO GREW UP IN LOW INCOME FAMILIES, PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES THAT REPRESENT THE PEOPLE OF TORONTO IN A WAY THAT WE DON'T OFTEN SEE ON THESE STAGES, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S REALLY COMING ACROSS IN THESE KINDS OF DEBATES. >> Steve: SABRINA, I WANT TO FOLLOW UP ON SOMETHING YOU JUST SAID BECAUSE YOU SAID CHARACTER EMERGES WHEN YOU SEE A GOOD INTERCHANGE OF IDEAS LIKE THIS. BUILD ON THAT, IF YOU WOULD, A LITTLE BIT? WHAT CHARACTER EMERGED HERE THAT CONNECTED WITH YOU? >> Sabrina: TO SEE SOMEONE WHO HAS SOME FIGHT IN THEM, THAT PASSION, IF THEY REALLY CARE ABOUT THE ISSUE BEYOND THE TALKING POINTS. AND I THINK WHEN YOU SAW SOME OF THOSE BATTLES BETWEEN JOSH OR BRAD OR MARK, YOU REALLY SAW, EVEN IF YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH THEIR RESPECTIVE POLICIES, THAT THEY'RE REALLY IN IT, THEY BELIEVE IT, THEY'RE STANDING BEHIND -- THEY'RE STANDING BEHIND WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. WHEREAS I FELT WITH SOME OF THE OTHER PERSONAL ANECDOTES, LIKE OLIVIA SEEMED TO HAVE ONE FOR EVERYTHING. YOU KNOW, SHE IS GESTURING WILDLY. BUT THE CONVICTION FOR ME JUST WASN'T THERE. IT RANG HOLLOW. SHE SAYS SHE UNDERSTANDS PEOPLE, BUT DOES SHE REALLY WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT ENGAGEMENT WITH VOTERS? SHE'S BEEN IN POLITICS A LONG TIME. IF SHE WAS THAT GOOD AT ENGAGING PEOPLE, SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN ELECTED BY NOW. SO I THINK THAT IS WHAT I TOOK AWAY FROM IT. >> Steve: SABINE, AS A GUY WHO USED TO COACH THIS KIND OF STUFF, DO THOSE TYPE OF PERSONAL ANECDOTES WORK? DO YOU COACH YOUR CANDIDATES TO DO THAT? >> Sabine: IT'S NOT DO THEY WORK OR DON'T THEY WORK, IT'S CAN YOU TELL A STORY. THEY ALWAYS WORK REALLY WELL IF YOU CAN LIFT IT OFF THE PAGE. IF IT FEELS LIKE SOMETHING THAT CAME OUT OF A KEY MESSAGE BOOK, THE ANSWER IS, NO, IT DOESN'T WORK. I SAW A MOMENT OF CHARACTER THAT CAME THROUGH. ANA BAILÃO SMILED A COUPLE OF TIMES WHEN SHE WAS IN A GOOD SCRAP. YOU CAN IMAGINE HER BEING A PERSON YOU COULD HAVE AN ARGUMENT WITH AND NOT HATE HER AFTERWARDS. I THOUGHT THAT WAS KIND OF NICE. YOU MIGHT HAVE SOME JUDGMENTS ABOUT SOME OF THE OTHERS. BUT I THINK OVERALL, IT WAS A NICE DEBATE. AND WHAT A RELIEF AFTER, YOU KNOW, THE TURKEYS THAT YOU SEE COMING UP FROM CNN OR THAT KIND OF THING, RIGHT? IT WAS NICE. IT FELT GOOD. >> Steve: WHAT KIND OF CHARACTER EMERGED FOR YOU? >> Jennifer: WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT REALLY STOOD OUT, I'M NOT SURE IF THIS IS A CHARACTER -- A CHARACTER -- CHARACTERISTIC OR TRAIT, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT REALLY POPPED OUT TO ME THAT I CAN IDENTIFY WITH, BOTH HAVING A TRACK RECORD AND ALSO BEING ON A STAGE WHERE YOU HAVE THIS VERY AWKWARD DYNAMIC OF SOMETIMES KNOWING TOO MUCH. AND THERE WERE THREE PEOPLE ON THAT STAGE THAT REALLY KNOW A LOT, AND IN SOME WAYS THAT CAN BE A LIABILITY. >> Steve: WHO ARE THE THREE? >> Jennifer: THE THREE ARE ANA BAILÃO, JOSH MATLOW, AND BRAD BRADFORD. SO IT'S VERY EASY TO SAY THINGS THAT RESONATE, THAT SOUND LIKE THEY'RE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT PEOPLE WANT TO HEAR BUT, YOU KNOW, GETTING AFFORDABLE HOUSING BUILT IS INCREDIBLY CHALLENGING IN THIS CITY, AND YOU'VE GOT SOME PEOPLE ON THAT STAGE WHO HAVE BEEN IN THE TRENCHES, WHO HAVE ACTUALLY PASSED SOME REALLY SIGNIFICANT MILESTONES. AND THAT CAME THROUGH. IT'S DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE LIKE THAT TO THROW OUT A TRITE RESPONSE BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY KNOW HOW DIFFICULT IT IS TO REALLY GET WORK DONE AND, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE CHARACTER THINGS THAT I ACTUALLY DIDN'T APPRECIATE, I ACTUALLY THOUGHT THERE WERE SOME VERY DISMISSIVE THINGS THAT WERE SAID BY MARK SAUNDERS, FLIPPANT COMMENTS TO PEOPLE, "YOU DON'T GET ANYTHING DONE," AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS DISRESPECTFUL TO SOME OF THE PEOPLE ON THAT STAGE WHO HAVE WORKED INCREDIBLY HARD FOR THE CITY AND GOTTEN A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF WORK DONE. SO I'LL SAY THAT. AND WE SHOULD CORRECT THE RECORD HERE. OLIVIA CHOW HAS BEEN ELECTED MULTIPLE TIMES IN THE CITY AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, AND HAS A PRETTY PHENOMENAL TRACK RECORD AS WELL AS A PREVIOUS COUNCILLOR. WHETHER WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT BREAKFAST PROGRAMS FOR CHILDREN OR POLICIES RELATED TO AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND RENT PROTECTION, SHE ACTUALLY HAS A DEPTH OF A PORTFOLIO AS WELL, AND UNFORTUNATELY I DON'T THINK THAT NECESSARILY CAME OUT BECAUSE SHE FOCUSED A LOT ON ANECDOTES -- >> I WOULD SAY THEN WHERE IS THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND THE RENT PROTECTION? >> Jennifer: SHE HASN'T -- THERE ARE TWO THINGS AND MY GOAL HERE ISN'T -- BECAUSE I THINK YOU CAN SAY THAT TO EVERY SINGLE CANDIDATE ON THAT STAGE. YOU CAN DEFINITELY SAY THAT TO ANA, WHO WAS THE DEPUTY MAYOR OF HOUSING IN A PERIOD WHERE WE REALLY DIDN'T GET A LOT OF HOUSING BUILT, BUT I WOULD ARGUE THAT WE GOT A LOT OF THE COMPONENTS SET UP FOR THE NEXT MAYOR TO SUCCEED, AND I THINK MAYOR TORY WAS JUST ON THE CUSP OF BEING ABLE TO ROLL OVER SOME PRETTY SIGNIFICANT INITIATIVES THAT DID TAKE ABOUT SIX YEARS TO GET QUEUED UP FOR DELIVERY BECAUSE THESE THINGS AREN'T EASY. BUT YOU CAN SAY THAT -- YOU KNOW, BRADFORD HAS BEEN ON COUNCIL, JOSH MATLOW HAS BEEN ON COUNCIL AND HAS BEEN APPROVING APPLICATIONS. SO IF YOU'RE GOING TO LITIGATE PEOPLE'S RECORDS, YOU'VE KIND OF GOTTA LITIGATE THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE REALLY GOT A RECORD. AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, EACH ONE OF THEM HAS BEEN ON COUNCIL AND DIVING A LITTLE BIT DEEPER INTO WHAT THEY ACTUALLY DID. YOU KNOW, THAT'S ACTUALLY A WORTHWHILE THING TO DO, RATHER THAN JUST SCRATCHING THE SURFACE. BUT TO THE CHARACTER PIECE, WHAT REALLY CAME THROUGH TO ME IS THAT WHEN YOU HAVE REALLY BEEN IN THE TRENCHES DAY OUT, DAY OUT -- DAY IN, DAY OUT, YOU'VE READ 50-PAGE REPORTS ON THE DEFINITION OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND HOW IT'S INCONSISTENT WITH CMHC'S DEFINITION OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND HOW THAT SCREWS UP ALL THE FUNDING PROGRAMS, IT MAKES IT REALLY HARD TO SAY SOMETHING FLIPPANT ON STAGE. IT DOES MAKE IT REALLY HARD. AND I ACTUALLY SAW THAT COMING OUT IN SOME OF THE CANDIDATES THAT HAVE BEEN IN THE TRENCHES. THEY COULDN'T SAY THE FEEL-GOOD FLIPPANT THINGS IN THE SAME WAY BECAUSE IT'S HARD TO DO THAT BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY KNOW. I'LL WRAP THIS UP, BUT I THINK THAT ALSO CAME THROUGH -- GOOD GRIEF, CONSULT ON BIKE LANES. DOES ANYONE IN THIS ROOM HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MUCH CONSULTATION THERE WAS ON BIKE LANES? SO THAT'S A REALLY GOOD EXAMPLE OF HOW SAUNDERS HASN'T BEEN IN THE TRENCHES AND QUITE FRANKLY HAS NO IDEA HOW MUCH CONSULTATION -- WE DO YEARS AND YEARS OF CONSULTATION ON BIKE LANES BEFORE WE PILOT THEM. SO THAT WAS A COMMENT THAT JUST SHOWED A LACK OF TIME IN THE TRENCHES. >> Steve: SABINE. >> Sabine: YEAH. I THINK THE OTHER PROBLEM HERE IS -- I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY OF YOU HAD TO TELL YOUR CHILD THAT THERE IS NO EASTER BUNNY. LIKE, IT'S NOT FUN, RIGHT? IMAGINE IF YOU HAD TO GET ELECTED BY YOUR CHILD AFTER YOU TOLD THEM THAT THERE WAS NO EASTER BUNNY? AND I THINK THE PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE HERE IS THAT THERE ARE STILL A NUMBER OF EASTER BUNNIES THAT ARE HOPPING AROUND THE STAGE WITH REGARD TO THE FISCAL SITUATION OF THE CITY, AND I DON'T MEAN TO BE THE ONE TO TELL YOU IF YOU HAVEN'T BEEN READING THE REPORTS, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE THINGS IN MIRROR ARE CLOSER THAN THEY APPEAR. AND PETER WALLACE TOLD US IN 2018. >> Steve: THE CITY MANAGER. >> Sabine: WHO WAS THE OLD CITY MANAGER THAT THE FISCAL CRUNCH WAS COMING AND WE ALL SORT OF SAID, WELL, MAYBE IT WON'T. AND THERE WAS A REPORT PUBLISHED IN MARCH BY EY THAT BASICALLY PEGGED THE NUMBER AT $46 BILLION OVER 10 YEARS AS BEING OUR SHORTFALL. AND THE BIGGEST CHUNK OF THAT IS DEFERRED CAPITAL. SO THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS PETER WAS RIGHT A FEW YEARS AGO. WE'VE BEEN PUSHING OFF WHAT WE COULD PUSH OFF. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT A BILLION DOLLAR SHORTFALL OR BILLION AND A HALF SHORTFALL, THOSE ARE THE LEAST OF THE WORRIES BECAUSE THE THINGS IN THE MIRROR ARE CLOSER THAN THEY APPEAR AND THE FISCAL CRUNCH COMING IS QUITE ENORMOUS. YOU KNOW, YOU TALK ABOUT THEM, YOU KNOW, KNOWING -- HOW DO YOU COMMUNICATE WHAT YOU NEED TO COMMUNICATE HONESTLY IN AN ELECTION AND WIN? THAT IS A REAL PROBLEM THAT OUR DEMOCRACY FACES RIGHT NOW. WHOEVER WINS, WE NEED THEM TO BE VERY SUCCESSFUL BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO BE COMING INTO A VERY DIFFICULT TIME. AND I WISH -- LIKE, WHOEVER IT IS AND ALL OF THEM VERY WELL BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO NEED THEM TO PERFORM BETTER THAN WE'VE EVER HAD ANYBODY PERFORM BEFORE BECAUSE OF THE FISCAL IMBALANCE. IT BASICALLY MAKES ALL MUNICIPALITIES FUNDAMENTALLY UNSUSTAINABLE TO GREATER OR LESSER DEGREES, AND TORONTO IS IN THE WORST SITUATION BECAUSE IT HAS THE MOST COMPLICATED MIX AND MOST EXPENSIVE MIX OF SERVICES RELATIVE TO THE REVENUE TOOLS THAT IT HAS. AND REALLY WHAT YOU WERE SEEING WAS A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE TRYING TO DANCE AROUND THAT, WITHOUT REALLY TALKING ABOUT IT, BECAUSE IF YOU DID, YOU'D BE THE PERSON SAYING, "I HATE TO TELL YOU THIS, BUT WE'RE REALLY GOOD AT ENUMERATING ALL THE THINGS WE NEED," AND THE NEXT FEW YEARS IS GOING TO BE WHAT CAN WE TAKE AWAY. AND I HATE TO HAVE TO SAY THAT. BUT THAT'S THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER. YOU KNOW, IF THERE WAS A WEAK POINT IN THE DEBATE, I'M NOT GOING TO FAULT PEOPLE TRYING TO GET ELECTED FOR NOT TALKING LIKE THAT. I'M JUST SITTING THERE SAYING, THIS IS THE WAY IT IS. BUT THAT WAS THE WEAKNESS OF THE DEBATE. >> Steve: WELL, LET ME PICK UP ON THAT. ALYSHAH, DID YOU HEAR ENOUGH TRUTH TELLING TONIGHT? >> Alyshah: YOU ASKED ABOUT VOTER ENGAGEMENT AS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS, THEY KEPT SAYING THE MATH IS FICTIONAL, IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. LET ME TELL YOU, I'VE READ ALL THESE PLATFORMS AND I AM FRUSTRATED BY THE MATH NOT MAKING SENSE FOR ALL OF THEM, RIGHT? THEY'RE NOT HAVING AN HONEST CONVERSATION. THERE'S THIS SORT OF GAP BETWEEN AFFORDABILITY. NOBODY -- YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALL STRUGGLING WITH COST OF LIVING STUFF. EVERYTHING IS EXPENSIVE. WE ALSO HAVE THIS $1.5 BILLION HOLE. THERE'S A MORE DIRE REPORT THAT LOOKS AT -- LIKE, NUMBERS YOU CAN'T EVEN FATHOM IN YOUR HEAD ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF STUFF WE HAVE TO PAY FOR OVER THE NEXT 20 YEARS THAT WE HAVE -- LIKE, IF YOU LOOK AT THE LIST OF THINGS THAT AREN'T FUNDED YET, I WAS STUNNED TO LEARN ABOUT ALL THE THINGS THAT WE TALK ABOUT DOING THAT ACTUALLY HAVE NO FUNDING PLAN BEHIND THEM. SO IT IS VERY FRUSTRATING FOR I THINK A REGULAR PERSON WATCHING THESE DEBATES TO GO: OKAY, WE CAN'T AFFORD IT, BUT ALSO WE HAVE ALL THESE THINGS WE WANT TO DO AND NOBODY WANTS TO CUT ANYTHING AND WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT -- MARK SAUNDERS IS TALKING ABOUT FINDING EFFICIENCIES WHICH IS SOMETHING WE HAVE OFTEN TRIED TO DO AND FAILED BECAUSE EFFICIENCIES CAN'T BE FOUND IN CHILDREN'S BREAKFAST PROGRAMS OR AFTER-SCHOOL PROGRAMMING OR VIOLENCE PREVENTION PROGRAMS. SO NO ONE IS WILLING TO HAVE THE TOUGH CONVERSATION, PEOPLE TALK ABOUT DEFUNDING THE POLICE AS IF IT'S SOME SORT OF SHORTHAND, 20% TAX -- IT IS VERY FRUSTRATING TO SEE THOSE KINDS OF THINGS BEING TALKED ABOUT WITHOUT AN HONEST KIND OF ACCOUNTING ABOUT WHERE WE ARE. I JUST WANTED TO RAISE ONE MORE THING ABOUT ENGAGING WITH PEOPLE, AND THAT'S WITH OLIVIA CHOW, WHEN SHE TELLS THOSE ANECDOTES, I THINK PEOPLE CONNECT WITH THEM IN DIFFERENT WAYS, RIGHT? SO I CONNECT MAYBE WITH SOME OF THE THINGS SHE SAYS AND THE WAY THAT SHE SAYS THEM BECAUSE THOSE THINGS ARE FAMILIAR TO ME. AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S REALLY NICE HAVING SOMEBODY ON A DEBATE STAGE THAT REPRESENTS A COMMUNITY AND A TYPE OF PERSON WE DON'T OFTEN SEE IN THESE SPACES, AND HER WAY OF ENGAGING WITH PEOPLE DOES RESONATE WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE WE DON'T NECESSARILY HEAR FROM. A LOT OF THE PEOPLE ON THE STAGE ARE POLITICIANS, THEY ARE PRACTISED. SAUNDERS HAS DONE MANY PRESS CONFERENCES IN HIS TIME TOO. IT'S VERY EASY FOR THEM TO TALK LIKE POLITICIANS. BUT I THINK THERE IS SOMETHING ABOUT DIFFERENT PEOPLE RESONATE WITH DIFFERENT STORIES DIFFERENTLY. >> Steve: OKAY. LET'S FOCUS ON THAT FOR A SECOND. BECAUSE YOU'RE ALL QUITE RIGHT, YOU CAN GET ABSOLUTELY BAMBOOZLED BY THE "I'VE GOT A PLAN FOR THIS, AND I'VE GOT A PLAN FOR THIS, AND HERE'S MY COST --" OKAY. I THINK OFTEN, SABINE, YOU'D PROBABLY CONFIRM THIS, PEOPLE WATCH AND THEY WANT TO GET A VIBE. DO I TRUST THIS PERSON? DOES THIS PERSON CONNECT WITH ME? OLIVIA CHOW, SABRINA, HASN'T RUN FOR ANYTHING IN ALMOST 10 YEARS. DID SHE LOOK ON HER GAME TONIGHT OR DID SHE LOOK RUSTY, IN YOUR VIEW, OR SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN? >> Sabrina: IF MY VIEW, RUSTY. BUT FOR ME SHE NEVER WAS SOMEONE WHO CONNECTED WITH MYSELF AS A VOTER. AND OBVIOUSLY WHEN SHE RAN FOR MAYOR BEFORE AND SHE DID NOT GET ELECTED, SHE DIDN'T CONNECT WITH A LOT OF VOTERS THEN. YOU KNOW, I WAS LISTENING FOR STORIES ABOUT HOUSING AFFORDABILITY, AND SHE WAS SPEAKING TO MY DEMOGRAPHIC IN THAT I AM A RENTER, I'M A MILLENNIAL THAT'S BEEN LOCKED OUT OF AFFORDABLE HOME OWNERSHIP. AND WHEN SHE IS SPEAKING ABOUT THE REALITY OF THE PERSON SHE KNOWS WHO IS PAYING $1600 TO LIVE IN A BASEMENT WITH TWO OTHER ROOMMATES, AND THAT'S WHY, BECAUSE IF THIS PERSON LOSES A JOB, SHE IS GOING TO INVEST MORE IN THE SHELTER SYSTEM? WELL, NO. WE CAN'T JUST KEEP BUILDING SHELTER SPACES FOR PEOPLE. WHAT YOUNG PEOPLE DON'T WANT IS TO GO LIVE IN SHELTERS OR EVEN IN GOVERNMENT-OWNED HOUSING. LIKE, THE GOVERNMENT CAN'T PICK UP THE GARBAGE OFF THE STREET. WE WANT TO LIVE IN GOVERNMENT-OWNED APARTMENTS? THAT'S NOT IT. SO WITH HER I FIND THERE'S A CONFUSION BETWEEN AFFORDABLE HOUSING WHICH, YES, IS IMPORTANT. BUT ALSO HOUSING AFFORDABILITY, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE SEEING THE FRUSTRATION AROUND WITH MILLENNIALS AND YOUNG PROFESSIONALS WHO ARE DOWNWARDLY MOBILE AND LEAVING THE CITY IN FLOCKS. >> Steve: JENNIFER, LET ME GET YOUR TAKE ON THAT. DO THE PEOPLE -- WE HAVE A COUPLE OF PEOPLE WHO ARE ON COUNCIL. WE'VE GOT SOMEBODY IN THE FORM OF A POLICE CHIEF WHO USED TO DO A TON OF PRESS CONFERENCES, VERY ACCUSTOMED TO DEALING WITH MEDIA. ANA BAILÃO, FORMER DEPUTY MAYOR, AGAIN, A LOT OF EXPERIENCE DOING THIS THING. WHO HELPED THEMSELVES WITH THEIR PERFORMANCE THIS EVENING? >> Jennifer: WELL, IT'S INTERESTING. I THOUGHT S SABINE REENA'S ANSWER WAS -- SABRINA'S ANSWER WAS INTERESTING, SHE DOESN'T RESONATE WITH ME. AND THAT THERE WAS SO MUCH DIVERSITY ON THE STAGE IS THAT WE ARE A REALLY DIVERSE CITY WITH A DIVERSE SET OF EXPERIENCES AND INTERESTS. AND THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT THIS ELECTION IS THAT WHOEVER APPEALS TO THE MOST OF THOSE INTERESTS IS GOING TO WIN, AND IT MIGHT BE THAT OLIVIA CHOW, WITH HER LIVED EXPERIENCE AND HER STORIES AND ALSO HER VERY CLEAR POLITICAL POSITION -- SHE HAS A VERY CLEAR POLITICAL POSITION -- MIGHT APPEAL TO THE MOST NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THIS CITY -- >> Steve: YOU DON'T NEED MORE THAN HALF THE VOTES, YOU JUST NEED THE BIGGEST CHUNK. >> Jennifer: YOU JUST NEED THE BIGGEST CHUNK. WHAT THAT MEANS IS A LOT OF PEOPLE ON THIS STAGE CAN DO WELL AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ON THIS STAGE DID DO VERY WELL. I HAVE THIS THING IN MY BRAIN, I CAN'T HELP IT, BUT I REALLY WANT MY MAYOR TO BE MAYORAL, BECAUSE I KNOW HOW DIFFICULT THE ISSUES ARE -- >> Steve: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? >> Jennifer: WELL, IT MEANS THAT I WANT TO KNOW THAT THEY HAVE THE CAPACITY TO THINK CLEARLY, THAT THEY'RE PRINCIPLED, THAT I KNOW WHAT I'M GOING TO GET FROM THEM -- >> Steve: DID YOU SEE THAT TONIGHT? >> Jennifer: I'M NOT INTO THIS FLIP-FLOPPING, ONE WEEK I'M THIS, ONE WEEK I'M THAT, DEPENDING ON -- I WANT PEOPLE WITH PRINCIPLE. >> Steve: DID YOU SEE THAT? >> Jennifer: WELL, I THINK I SAW SOME OF THAT. I THINK OLIVIA IS REALLY CLEAR ABOUT WHERE SHE STANDS ON THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM. I THINK THAT -- I THINK ANA BAILÃO WAS VERY CLEAR. I THINK SHE SPOKE VERY WELL TO HER RECORD, WHICH I THINK IS EASY TO UNDERESTIMATE. SHE TALKED ABOUT SOME OF WHAT SHE HAS ACHIEVED, WHICH MIGHT NOT BE ENOUGH BUT IS A HELL OF A LOT MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE IN THE PAST 10 YEARS HAS ACHIEVED AND THERE IS MOMENTUM BEHIND THAT. LOOK, I THINK JOSH MATLOW WAS VERY CREDIBLE AND FROM A VIBE PERSPECTIVE, TO THAT POINT OF, YOU KNOW, THE CONVERSATION, I THINK PEOPLE -- I THINK PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THEY KNOW WHERE JOSH MATLOW WAS COMING FROM AND THEY HAVE A SENSE THAT THEY KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT FROM HIM AS A MAYOR. HE HAS BEEN VERY CONSISTENT IN HIS POLICY POSITIONS OVER THE COURSE OF THE PAST 10 YEARS. QUITE FRANKLY, OTHER THAN OLIVIA, WHO I THINK IS VERY CONSISTENT, HE'S BEEN MORE CONSISTENT THAN ANYONE ELSE ON THE STAGE FOR SURE. AND I DO THINK THAT THERE'S A FRUSTRATION IN THIS CITY WITH NOT GETTING WHAT YOU WERE PROMISED, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT WAS GREAT THAT SMARTTRACK WAS MENTIONED TONIGHT BECAUSE SMARTTRACK WAS THE PRODUCT OF A CAMPAIGN AND ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE HAVE THIS MAJOR CONGESTION PROBLEM IS BECAUSE WE SPENT A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY. WE SPENT 100% OF OUR RESOURCES IN OUR TRANSPORTATION PLANNING DEPARTMENT TRYING TO MAKE A BACK OF THE NAPKIN CAMPAIGN PROMISE WORK, AND THERE WAS NO AMOUNT OF MASSAGING THAT COULD TURN IT INTO SOMETHING REAL. AND IT MIGHT BE -- THIS IS MY THEORY THAT I'M GOING WITH RIGHT NOW -- IT MIGHT BE THAT THE TORONTO ELECTORATE IS ACTUALLY DONE WITH THAT KIND OF CAMPAIGNING AND IS LOOKING FOR SOMEONE WHO THEY CAN SAY, I KNOW WHO YOU ARE, I KNOW WHAT YOUR VALUES ARE, I KNOW WHAT YOUR CENTRE IS AND HOW YOU'RE GOING TO LEAD, AND I DON'T CARE IF YOU'RE NOT PROMISING ME A MILLION LITTLE GOODIES, BUT YOU'RE SOMEONE I BELIEVE I CAN TRUST TO LEAD THIS CITY NO MATTER WHAT MAY COME AND WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO COME. >> Steve: LET ME PICK UP ON THAT WITH YOU. A PRESENTATION QUESTION. THREE GUYS ON THE STAGE, TWO IN A SUIT AND TIE. JOSH MATLOW VERY DEFINITIVELY, NO JACKET. TRYING TO LOOK VERY CASUAL. YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT? >> Sabine: I'M NOT REALLY QUALIFIED TO COMMENT ON MALE CLOTHING. [LAUGHTER] >> Sabine: BUT I RECALL THAT -- LOOK, THERE'S A GREAT TRICK IN DEBATE TRAINING WHICH IS YOU TURN THE SOUND DOWN AND YOU LOOK AT NON-VERBAL COMMUNICATION. I THINK IT WAS COLUMBIA JOURNALISM SCHOOL OR SOMEONE SAID 70% OF POSITIVE IMPRESSION COME FROM THE NON-VERBALS. SO CERTAINLY JOSH MATLOW, SOME WOULD SAY, HE SOUNDS BEST WHEN YOU TURN THE SOUND DOWN, BUT HE SURE LOOKS GOOD, RIGHT? LIKE, HE'S GOT A GREAT -- I LOOKED AT HIM AND I WAS ADMIRING HIS BODY LANGUAGE. THAT WAS JUST A CHEAP JOKE ABOUT HOW HE SOUNDS BEST. I DON'T MEAN TO TAKE ANY SIDES ON ANYBODY TONIGHT. THE PROBLEM WITH SUITS IS THEY CAN LOOK KIND OF FORMAL AND IT'S NOT EXACTLY THE WAY YOU TALK TO A CITY THAT HAS SUCH DIVERSE NEEDS. JUST PICKING UP ON SOMETHING JENNIFER WAS SAYING A MINUTE AGO. I THINK THE REAL CHALLENGE WE HAVE AS A CITY IS, YOU KNOW, IT'S THE INCREASING POLARIZATION OF THE EXPERIENCE OF LIVING HERE. YOU KNOW, THEY GAVE A REALLY GOOD RUNNING LIST OF THE SORTS OF THINGS THAT WE SHOULD BE INVESTING IN, RIGHT? I ALMOST THINK THAT THERE WAS NOTHING -- ALMOST NOTHING THAT ANYBODY SAID THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO INVEST IN THAT I WOULDN'T LIKE TO INVEST INTO. AND IT'S REALLY EASY TO RUN THE LIST OF THINGS THAT WE NEED. BUT JUST -- TO COME BACK TO MY THEME OF BEING THE BUCKET OF COLD WATER ON THE FINANCE SIDE. IF WE WERE REALLY GETTING PEOPLE WHO WERE TELLING US WHAT WE NEEDED TO KNOW, WE WOULDN'T -- LIKE, IT'S GOING TO BE ABOUT HOW WE CONSTRAIN OUR SPENDING. BUT WE DO THAT EVERY YEAR. BUT IT COULD BE WORSE THAN EVER. IT'S GOING TO BE ABOUT ASSETS THAT WE HAVE TO SELL. NOBODY WANTS TO SELL THEM, BUT WE'RE LIKELY TO HAVE TO SELL THEM. IT'S GOING TO BE ABOUT RAISING TAXES. YES, IT'S GOING TO BE ABOUT RAISING TAXES. NOBODY WANTS TO RAISE TAXES -- >> Steve: THEY'RE ALL GOING TO RAISE TAXES. >> Sabine: THEY'RE GOING TO RAISE IT A HECK OF A LOT MORE THAN THEY THINK THEY ARE, RIGHT? YOU GO UP 6% THIS YEAR, YOU HAVEN'T EVEN COVERED OFF INFLATION AND PROPERTY TAXES AREN'T LIKE INCOME TAXES. THEY DON'T RISE WITH THE ECONOMY, RIGHT? SO WHEN WE HAD OUR BIG TAX INCREASE THIS YEAR, IT DIDN'T EVEN COVER OFF THE ACTUAL DEPRECIATION OF THE CITY SPENDING. AND I DIDN'T EVEN MENTION THEN GOING AFTER THE FEDS FOR THE THINGS THAT THEY OUGHT TO PAY FOR THAT THEY DON'T, THE THINGS THAT THE PROVINCE PROBABLY OUGHT TO PAY FOR THAT THEY DON'T, PLUS, YOU KNOW, COMING UP WITH A KIND OF A NEW FISCAL DEAL. BECAUSE THE TRUTH IS, WE HAVEN'T REALLY HAD A SERIOUS LOOK AT THE ALLOCATION OF SPENDING RESPONSIBILITY VERSUS REVENUE FOR A LONG TIME. AND LIKE THE LAST COMPREHENSIVE LOOK WAS 2007-2008, AND IT EXPIRED IN 2018, AND THOSE THINGS AREN'T MEANT TO LAST FOREVER AND, YOU KNOW, THE LAST TIME THEY WOULD HAVE LOOKED AT IT, THEY WOULD HAVE HAD NO IDEA WHAT THE TTC REALLY NEEDED ON THE CAPITAL SIDE. NOW IT'S NOT THAT WHEN THEY DID IT, IT WAS WRONG. THESE DEALS HAVE TO BE REDONE EVERY 5 YEARS, EVERY 10 YEARS, OR THEY'RE STALE. SO THAT'S WHAT WE REALLY NEED TO BE TALKING ABOUT AND, YOU KNOW, THE REALITY THAT EACH OF THESE PEOPLE IS GOING TO FACE IF THEY'RE ELECTED IS GOING TO BE HAVING TO ADDRESS A WHOLE SERIES OF FISCAL IMPACTS THAT NONE OF US WOULD ENJOY HAVING TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR. >> Steve: JENNIFER, QUICK FOLLOW-UP? >> Jennifer: WELL, JUST TO PICK UP ON THAT. I THINK IT'S WORTH ASKING THE QUESTION WHO ON THAT STAGE PORTENDED THAT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO RAISE TAXES? BECAUSE THEY WOULD FAIL THE GENUINE TEST. >> Steve: SAID THEY WOULD RAISE THEM TO INFLATION. >> Jennifer: THAT'S ACTUALLY STATUS QUO. THAT DOESN'T GET US OVER THE PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE. I DO ACTUALLY THINK THAT'S A GOOD LITMUS TEST ON THE -- YOU KNOW, THE AUTHENTICITY OF A LEADER AND THERE'S A FEW ON THAT STAGE. THEIR NAME SHOULD PROBABLY BE SAID, WHO ARE PRETENDING THAT TAXES ARE THE EVIL -- LIKE, THIS TO ME IS SUCH A 2014 POLITICAL STRATEGY. RUN THAT YOU WON'T RAISE TAXES! IT'S A DECADE LATER. THE CITY IS FALLING APART. STILL RUNNING ON NOT RAISING TAXES WHEN WE HAVE THE LOWEST TAXES IN THE GTA IN THE CITY OF TORONTO? I THINK THAT'S A REALLY GOOD TEST OF AUTHENTICITY. GO THROUGH EACH ONE OF THESE CANDIDATES. WHO IS PLAYING A REALLY CHEAP GAME AND NOT BEING GENUINE ABOUT HOW THEY'RE GOING TO APPROACH GOVERNING IN THE CITY, BECAUSE ANY ONE OF THEM THAT KNOWS ANYTHING KNOWS THEY'RE GOING TO BE OVERSEEING A VERY LARGE TAX INCREASE. >> Steve: LET ME TRY THIS. THERE SEEMED TO BE TWO KINDS OF CANDIDATES. THERE ARE THOSE WHO ARE PLEDGING TO BE ABLE TO GET ALONG WITH THE PREMIER OF THE PROVINCE, AND THERE ARE THOSE WHO ARE PLEDGING NOT TO. WHAT DOES THE CITY NEED RIGHT NOW, SABRINA, IN YOUR VIEW? >> Sabrina: THE CITY DOES NEED SOMEONE WHO CAN ULTIMATELY COOPERATE WITH THE PREMIER. THEY HAVE A VERY CLOSE RELATIONSHIP, THE MAYOR AND THE PREMIER, AND TORONTO IS THE ECONOMIC CENTRE OF THE PROVINCE. ULTIMATELY, YOU NEED SOMEONE WHO IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO NEGOTIATE, HAVE THAT BACK AND FORTH, STAND UP FOR THE CITY WHEN IT'S IMPORTANT, BUT ALSO BE ABLE TO COOPERATE. AND I WANT TO TOUCH ON WHAT WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT HERE. I DO THINK THERE'S A LACK OF REALITY IN HOW WE'RE DISCUSSING THE FISCAL ISSUES RIGHT NOW. WE HEARD A LOT OF CHRISTMAS WISH LISTS UP THERE. VERY EXPENSIVE CHRISTMAS WISH LISTS. AND NOT A LOT OF TALKING ABOUT WHEN THAT CREDIT CARD BILL COMES DUE A MONTH LATER. THERE'S A LOT OF NICE-TO-HAVES, BUT I WANT TO HEAR MORE WHAT ARE THE MUST-HAVES WHEN THE REALITY IS NOBODY IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO PAY FOR EVERYTHING THEY'RE PROMISING IN THEIR PLATFORM. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT VALUE FOR MONEY, PART OF THAT VALUE IS LOOKING AT THINGS THAT PERHAPS HAVE BEEN PAID FOR FOR A LONG TIME BUT AREN'T AS RELEVANT ANYMORE OR JUST AREN'T WORKING AND WE HAVEN'T HEARD ANY DISCUSSION AROUND THAT. >> Steve: I DO WANT TO GO BACK TO THIS ISSUE OF, SOME OF US IN THIS ROOM REMEMBER WHEN MEL LASTMAN WAS THE MAYOR OF THE MEGACITY, HE'D WANT SOMETHING AND RAISE HOLY HELL AND USUALLY GET IT. JOHN TORY HAD A DIFFERENT APPROACH. IT WAS TO GET ALONG WITH THE PREMIER AS MUCH AS HE COULD. YOU SAW THE DIFFERENT APPROACHES ON THE STAGE TONIGHT. WHAT STOOD OUT? >> Alyshah: YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO -- LIKE, EVERYONE WANTS TO DO BOTH, RIGHT? THEY WANT TO WORK WITH THE PREMIER. THEY ALSO WANT TO STAND UP FOR TORONTO. THIS IS A WEIRD ELECTION, OBVIOUSLY, FOR MANY REASONS. BUT IT'S A VERY CONTRADICTORY ONE IN SOME WAYS BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE VERY HAPPY TO ELECT JOHN TORY LAST YEAR. BARELY ANY TIME HAS GONE BY. POLLS SHOW THAT THEY WOULD ELECT HIM AGAIN NOW. >> THE LEADING CANDIDATE FOR MAYOR. >> Alyshah: BUT AT THE SAME TIME, EVERYONE ON THE STAGE IS TALKING ABOUT CHANGE AND SOMEHOW THEY'RE ALL TRYING TO BE OUTSIDERS OR ALL TRYING TO SAY, WE'RE GOING TO BE DIFFERENT, WHEN I THINK -- THERE'S A LOT OF CONTRADICTIONS ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE, WHAT THEY THINK PEOPLE WANT. BUT ALSO WHAT TORONTONIANS ACTUALLY WANT. DO THEY WANT SOMEONE WHO IS GOING TO STAND UP AND FIGHT FOR THE SCIENCE CENTRE OR AGAINST -- DO YOU WANT AN OPPOSITIONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH A PREMIER COULD COME IN AT ANY TIME, CUT BUDGETS IN HALF AT THE TIME OF AN ELECTION. HOW DO YOU NEGOTIATE WITH SOMEONE WHO HOLDS ALL THE POWER? ONE INTERESTING THING ABOUT THIS ELECTION AND THE NUMBER OF CANDIDATES IS THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION IS, WITH A MANDATE, WE CAN DO THAT. WITH A MANDATE WE WILL HAVE STRENGTH. WE WON'T NEED THE STRONG MAYOR POWERS. WE WILL HAVE THE VOICE OF TORONTONIANS BEHIND US. BUT I REALLY WONDER WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF WE HAVE A VOTE THAT SPLITS SUCH THAT 20% OF TORONTONIANS CHOOSE A MAYOR. ARE WE GOING TO BE ABLE TO COME TO THE PROVINCE WITH A MANDATE TO SAY, ACTUALLY, WE WANT TO DO WHATEVER IT IS THAT WE WANT TO DO AND THERE'S A LOT OF MONEY THAT WE NEED FROM THE PROVINCE. >> Steve: LET ME PICK UP ON THAT. STRONG MAYOR POWERS. WE HEARD SOME CANDIDATES PLEDGE NOT TO USE THOSE POWERS. WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE OTHERS WHO WOULD USE THOSE POWERS. SABINE, DO WE BELIEVE EITHER SIDE? >> Sabine: WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE'S ONE POWER THAT YOU HAVE TO USE BECAUSE THE MUNICIPAL ACT IS MANDATORY ABOUT PROPOSING THE BUDGET. THERE'S THE STUFF THEN THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE. WHAT I'VE BEEN ADVISING MAYORS I KNOW AND LOVE IS, FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE, TRY TO NOT USE THEM, AND IF YOU DO HAVE TO USE THEM, USE THEM TO ENFORCE COUNCIL'S BROADER POLICY WISHES, AS OPPOSED TO USING THEM JUST TO JAM THROUGH YOUR OWN THING AS IF YOU'RE A KIND OF PROVINCIAL OCCUPYING ARMY IN THE CITY YOU'RE OPERATING. AND THE REASON I THINK THAT IS BECAUSE IF YOU -- THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHEN COUNCIL AND THE BETTER OF ITS ANGELS SAYS, THIS IS OUR HOUSING POLICY. BUT WHEN IT COMES TO PUTTING STUFF IN MY WARD, DON'T YOU DARE. SO I THINK THAT WOULD BE AN OKAY TIME TO ENFORCE A COUNCIL-APPROVED STRATEGY WHEN THEY'RE TRYING TO WEASEL OUT OF IT WHEN IT COMES TO ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING THAT BY POLICY RIGHTS OUGHT TO HAPPEN. BUT IF IT'S ABOUT IMPOSING SOMETHING FROM THE PROVINCE THAT THE CITY REALLY DOESN'T WANT, I DON'T THINK THAT'S A GREAT SPACE TO BE IN BECAUSE I THINK IT UNDERMINES THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE MAYOR AND THE PEOPLE, BETWEEN THE MAYOR AND THE COUNCIL, AND THEN IT ALSO HAS THE POTENTIAL TO UNDERMINE BETWEEN THE MAYOR AND THE STAFF AS WELL. SO I DON'T LOVE THE POWERS. THE ONLY ASTERISK I WOULD PUT ON THAT IS, YOU KNOW, OUR FUNDAMENTAL COUNCIL SYSTEM WAS DESIGNED FOR A DIFFERENT TIME, A VERY DIFFERENT CITY, A MUCH -- YOU KNOW, OUR MUNICIPAL -- WE HAVE OUR OWN CITY OF TORONTO ACT, BUT REALLY IT'S MORE LIKE THE MUNICIPAL ACT THAN NOT. IT'S MEANT TO COVER EVERYTHING FROM A MUNICIPALITY OF 800 PEOPLE TO A COUPLE OF MILLION. YOU COULD ARGUE THAT WE'VE OUTGROWN OUR ABILITY TO RUN A COUNCIL-STYLE STRUCTURE BECAUSE WE HAVE WAY BIGGER CHOICES AND WAY MORE WIDE OPEN CHOICES THAN WE'VE EVER HAD BEFORE. AND SO I FIND I'M DEEPLY DIVIDED ON THE STRONG MAYOR STUFF BECAUSE I KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO FIX. I JUST DON'T LOVE IT IN PRACTICE. AND I CERTAINLY DON'T LIKE THE ONE-THIRD MAJORITY -- >> Steve: ONE-THIRD MINORITY. >> Sabine: MINORITY, YEAH. >> Steve: OVERRULING A TWO-THIRDS MAJORITY. >> Sabine: THAT WAS JUMPING THE SHARK. >> Steve: TINA IS TELLING ME WE JUST HAVE A FEW MINUTES LEFT. I REALLY DO NEED TO FIND OUT FROM ALL OF YOU WHETHER THIS DEBATE TONIGHT AND THE ONE LAST NIGHT ON CITY AND THERE WAS ONE FOR THE FOOD BANK BEFORE THAT. ALL THE POLLS SAY IT'S CHOW'S TO LOSE. HAS IT CHANGED THE DYNAMIC, ANY OF THESE DEBATES? >> Jennifer: I THINK IT'S NOT A LONG TIME, IT'S A MONTH. BUT THERE'S STILL A LOT OF RACE TO BE HAD. WE'RE STILL HAVING ANNOUNCEMENTS COMING OUT. THE PLATFORMS ARE NOT FULLY OUT YET. I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF DISCUSSION TO BE HAD. THERE'S NOT THAT MUCH DIFFERENCE IN SOME WAYS BETWEEN SOME OF THE POLICIES WE HEARD TONIGHT. SO WHAT YOU'RE REALLY LOOKING AT, WHO DO I TRUST TO GET THE JOB DONE? AND I THINK THERE'S STILL QUITE A BIT OF TIME FOR PEOPLE TO MAKE THAT DECISION. >> Steve: ALBERTA BREENA, DID THIS CHANGE THE DINE -- SABRINA, DID THIS CHANGE THE DYNAMIC? >> Sabrina: I THINK IN TERMS OF FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGING THE DYNAMIC, NO, THERE'S LIKE YOU SAID, SO MUCH RACE LEFT, AND WE HAVE OLIVIA WITH BY FAR THE HIGHEST NAME RECOGNITION WHICH IS LIKELY WHY SHE IS LEADING IN THE POLLS AND THAT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE IMMEDIATELY AFTER TONIGHT. WHAT THE OTHER CANDIDATES NEED TO DO IS COMPETE WITH THAT NAME RECOGNITION AND GET THEIR FACES AND BRANDS OUT THERE IN FRONT OF VOTERS IN WHAT'S A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME? >> Sabine: I WOULD SAY THIS LOOKED MORE LIKE SIX LEGITIMATE RELATIVELY EASY CANDIDACIES THAN A WAY OUT FRONTRUNNER. THAT MIGHT BE NAME REALITY BUT I'M NOT SURE IT'S THE QUALITY OF THE CANDIDATE REALITY. THAT MIGHT CHANGE THINGS. IT WILL COME DOWN TO HOW WELL THE CAMPAIGNS GO. >> Steve: JENNIFER? >> Jennifer: I THINK THAT THIS DID ENABLE PEOPLE GETTING TO KNOW THE CANDIDATES A LITTLE BETTER AND MOSTLY FOR THE UNSCRIPTED MOMENTS. I FOUND THE SCRIPTED MOMENTS BY EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM TOTALLY CRINGEWORTHY, MAYBE BECAUSE I'VE BEEN HEARING IT SO MUCH. JUST BE YOU. LET'S JUST HAVE A CONVERSATION HERE ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO. WE HAVE TRICKY STUFF TO SOLVE AS A CITY. JUST SHOW UP AND TELL US WHO YOU ARE GOING TO BE. BUT I THINK THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION REALLY GOES BACK TO, WELL, WHAT IS IT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR? EVERYONE IS SAYING THIS IS A CHANGE ELECTION. PEOPLE WANT CHANGE. I THINK THAT THERE IS A PRETTY DEEPLY HELD, SHARED CONSENSUS ABOUT WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO FIX AMONGST ALL SIX OF THE CANDIDATES. YOU DON'T HAVE SOMEONE PROPOSING SOMETHING KIND OF -- LIKE SOME WILD, CRAZY IDEAS OR BIG, BIG DIFFERENT VISION FROM THE VISION THAT WE SEE TODAY. SO I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF CONSISTENCY WHICH MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO BREAK OUT FROM THE PACK. BUT, IF PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT CHARACTER, IF THIS IS A CAMPAIGN THAT'S ABOUT, YOU KNOW WHAT? I'VE HAD IT WITH PRETTY PICTURES, I'VE HAD IT WITH FANCY WORDS, I WANT TO KNOW WHO YOU ARE, I WANT TO KNOW YOU'RE GOING TO WORK SUPER HARD. >> Steve: WHO IS THAT? >> Jennifer: WHO IS THE CANDIDATE WHO WILL DO THAT? >> Steve: WHO IS IT? [LAUGHTER] >> Jennifer: I THINK THERE'S A FEW OF THEM. >> Steve: A FEW, OKAY. >> Jennifer: I THINK OLIVIA CHOW, SHE IS A SUPER HARD WORKER, SHE IS INCREDIBLY PASSIONATE ABOUT THE CITY. >> Steve: SHE HAS RUN OUT OF FINGERS. >> Jennifer: THE REASON WHY SHE IS LEADING IS BIGGER THAN NAME RECOGNITION. IT WOULD HAVE DROPPED. I THINK IT WOULD HAVE DROPPED IN THE PAST SEVERAL WEEKS IF IT WAS JUST NAME RECOGNITION. >> Steve: YOU KNOW WHAT? WE GOTTA GO. I DO WANT TO THANK YOU FOUR FOR COMING HERE TONIGHT -- APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE. THAT'S GREAT. JENNIFER KEESMAAT, SABINE MATHESON, SABRINA MADDEAUX, AND ALYSHAH HASHAM. I HAVE TO DO SOME FAST IT YOUS. I WANT TO -- THANK YOUS. I WANT TO THANK MARK FORD, THE TECHNICAL WHIZ, OUR DIRECTOR THE GREAT SHELDON OSMOND.

Channel: The Agenda | TVO Today

Views: 15,318

Keywords: OnPoli, Agenda, Canada, current affairs, Nam Kiwanuka, News, Ontario, politics, Steve Paikin, The Agenda, TVO, OTT, Queen's Park

Id: EBOxyKx5dpc

Length: 119min 38sec (7178 seconds)

Published: Thu May 25 2023

Reddit Comments

[u/MarkG_108]

I thought the after panel discussion was interesting. It begins at 1:23:11 of the video. It features Jennifer Keesmaat, Sabine Matheson, Sabrina Maddeaux, and Alyshah Hasham, moderated by Steve Paikin.

[u/Born_Ruff]

Yewtube?

[u/MarkG_108]

For those wondering, "yewtube" is an Invidious instance. Invidious is an open source alternative front-end to YouTube. Using this helps enhance privacy and prevent the tracking which Google partakes in.

[u/henry_why416]

The debate was hilarious.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Yak_263]

Anthoney Furey should be included in these debates! he's beating mitzie and brad and honestly has more common sense in his policies than many of the candidates and doesn't take cheap jabs at others.