Top prosecutor reveals how long a Trump PRISON SENTENCE could be

[Music] now we've got the host of justice matters on youtube 30-year former federal prosecutor glenn kirschner glenn thank you so much for coming on great to be with you brian so i i bet you you wish you never never made yourself the guy who i'd call every time there's a legal issue in trump world because uh it's it's it's cost you now it's heating up i'll tell you all right so let's let's get started with the newest bit of news and i'm gonna do my best not to not to have our interviews immediately become obsolete which is something that we've encountered a lot of times in the past with the way that things move so quickly but the doj revealed that there were 43 empty folders with classified banners on them at mar-a-lago uh glenn do you think they came that way like what are the implications of finding empty classified document folders yeah i can't imagine trump said here's what i want you all to pack up at the white house i'm going to need you to take those 43 empty folders that used to contain classified information i'm going to need you to take those 28 empty folders that say on them return to staff secretary slash military aid i'm going to need you to deliver all of those to my office proper in case anybody wonders if it was my office i've named it 45 office and brian that's just some of the empty classified documents folders that were found at mar-a-lago there were also several found in a storage facility across multiple boxes nobody nobody packages up empty classified documents folders to move them to their new digs this is about as i went from bad to worse to extraordinarily dangerous for our national security i guess at this point all we can do is surmise where those documents went i mean what what seems like the most likely explanation i know that we're treading on like treading on shaky ground because because i guess the only person who can really say is trump and or investigators who've looked into this but what's the most likely explanation as to why there are empty classified documents so the ground under our feet might have become a little firmer in the last 60 minutes or so because the reporting just broke that a russian oligarch by the name of victor veskelberg has right now as we speak the fbi and the department of homeland security are searching his new york and florida properties and they are carrying they are seen carrying boxes out of those properties do we know whether that's related to this morning's revelation that donald trump had empty classified documents folders we don't might be pure coincidence but i think we have to wait and see you know i hate to speculate but it seems to me that donald trump very likely exploited those documents in some way for his own benefit whether that was financial whether it was for blackmail whether it was to leverage future business deals he might have in other countries i think we're going to begin to learn more about that but i've talked to some national security folk who were able to answer questions that i had liked if you have an empty folder with a classified banner on it might you be able to tell what that folder used to contain and i was told yes we do have ways to figure that out and brian i had a ts sci clearance when i was an army prosecutor handling an espionage case out of desert storm and can i tell you that scared the bejesus out of me i didn't want to say or do or touch something i shouldn't i was super careful but you know this is as potentially dangerous and damaging as it gets to our nation just as a quick aside what's the punishment for any other person other than donald trump if they were found to have uh had been in possession of documents like these uh prison a prompt arrest a prompt indictment a prompt prosecution probably a guilty plea which is how most of these cases involving mishandling of government classified materials you know play out people typically will plead guilty and the government will debrief them out the wazoo to make sure we know everything that might result in damage to our national security but we can use the concrete example of a department of just excuse me a department of defense executive assistant named asia janae lavarello who was serving in hawaii with the federal government mishandled a secret document and also failed to tr failed to transmit some handwritten notes she had taken that she was authorized to take at a meeting at which classified information was discussed she failed to transport her notes in a secure diplomatic pouch this year she was put in prison for three years donald trump has a tea time tomorrow after doing a million times more by way of criminal conduct and potential damage to our national security than miss lavarello did but still he's the most persecuted person in history so he is actually the most investigated and least prosecuted person in the history of our nation so there are two statutes at play here there's the presidential records act which really has no enforcement mechanism and then there's the espionage act which has some pretty major penalties that go along with it can you speak about the differences here and how those things apply in this situation yeah so the presidential records act as you say has no teeth there are lots of laws on the books that are basically guidelines for how federal government employees and officers should operate actually for example the hatch act has no teeth you can you can you know receive a slap on the wrist if you violate the hatch act that is if you engage in political activity as a government employee because that's prohibited you may even get you know a a letter of condemnation in your permanent file but it doesn't really have any teeth to it but the espionage act provisions sure do and under 18 usc 793 it sure seems like donald trump has mishandled national defense information the reason i say it seems like he has violated that statute is because that's one of the statutes cited in the search warrant for which the judge found there was probable cause to believe that statute had been violated and that there was evidence of that crime on the property of mar-a-lago now what is trump facing here like give me the spectrum of punishments that we could see and you know from from best in his case to to worst and also what you think is most likely four openers donald trump is facing 20 years in prison and here's why one of the three federal statutes listed in the search warrant is obstructing an official investigation or an official proceeding and that one is a lay down winner for the government i don't say that lightly or cavalierly because there's no such thing as a bullet proof case prosecutors can lose any case or a jury can hang in any case that we choose to prosecute but donald trump was subpoenaed to turn over the additional materials he had at mar-a-lago and he flat out refused and then we had to get it federal prosecutors had to get a search warrant they went in there and they found a veritable mountain of documents that were responsive to the subpoena that is a fairly easy obstruction case to prove that carries with it 20 years in prison potentially that's the maximum punishment so for openers that's a relatively easy charge to prove on the facts as we know them what happens to trump's attorney who signed that sworn statement attesting that all those classified documents that were held at mar-a-lago had already been returned like does she get disbarred or could she actually face legal punishment herself the answer is yes both of those things are in play you know first of all let me back up i've talked to a lot of my friends who um operate kind of at the upper echelons of the white-collar defense practice in dc most of them are former prosecutors that i served with many years ago and i said look i've never been a defense attorney never wanted to be a defense attorney but my understanding is that defense attorneys never certify that their criminal clients have turned over all of the evidence of crime that they had you're representing a bank robber as a defense attorney it's not really in your job description to certify to the prosecutors by the way my client gave back all the money he stole from the bank that's not the way the practice of law is supposed to play out so christina bob is in potential deep legal jeopardy not only professional jeopardy because she will be referred to her state bar wherever she's licensed for an investigation to see whether she should be sanctioned or disbarred but she is in legal peril because she certified something that is provably false it's not something she should have certified in the first instance but and she also now has a conflict right anytime an attorney is representing a client and that attorney's conduct is potentially criminal in furtherance of that representation the attorney has a has a split loyalty now because you have to zealously represent your client but you also have to keep yourself out of hot water and those two goals may conflict with one another so very soon i expect to see her withdraw from her representation of donald trump doesn't it kind of not make sense to put yourself and your profession on the line in service of or on behalf of someone like donald trump who's known to lie i mean like just from a judgment standpoint wouldn't it be smart of her to have you know maybe maybe not predicated her this entire thing on trusting what donald trump says yeah um but let's you know let's recognize that she is now one of a long line of attorneys that donald trump has touched and they have died right every attorney donald trump i think mike we're looking like sydney connie you've got john eastman you've got jeffrey clark a little bit of an outlier he was a department of justice high official who joined donald trump's conspiracy to overturn the results of the election now it looks like christina bob will join that club and perhaps evan corcoran the other lawyer who according to christina bob is the one who really conducted the search of mar-a-lago for additional classified materials and then told me he didn't find any so you already have two of donald trump's lawyers doing a little bit of finger pointing you had mentioned uh an opening of 20 years is it possible that that trump could still run for president from prison is there any punishment here that would preclude him from being able to hold federal office no uh the the restrictions on somebody running for the presidency are few and far between is it practical that he could run for office from prison no but i don't think there is a legal prohibition of course that's something that the supreme court has never taken up because you know go figure we've never had a presidential candidate behind bars during the campaign so but no i think practically speaking that's a non-starter but that's just in this case because there are other cases like the one being investigated uh regarding january 6 that would have those barriers to him holding federal office in the future correct exactly because there are some statutes on the books for example a seditious conspiracy i believe that say if you are convicted of that crime treason is another one of those crimes if you are convicted then the statutory punishment that the judge could impose includes banning someone from future federal uh office so in theory um that is one way to stop not only donald trump from running for office but any other of the insurrectionists in congress if they are convicted of any of those charges they could also be banned from holding federal office now this idea from republicans that we need a special master that's the the talking point of the day my take on it is look the doj already had a filter team in place they've already separated out documents that don't pertain to this no one really gives a about about documents that weren't classified anyway my idea is that bringing in a special master would just be a way for them to slow walk this whole thing so they have more time to obfuscate the facts do you have a read on this on this whole special special master situation i do it's all kind of uncharted territory but here's my read first of all judge ailene cannon who is the judge that somehow got appointed to hear donald trump's demand to have a special master appointed she's a federalist society member since 2005 when she was in her mid-20s it's not what i was doing in my mid-20s it was you know finding out where i could get the cheapest beer and pizza yeah judge cannon has been a federalist society member since 2005. i think it's worth noting that not only was she nominated by donald trump but she was confirmed by mitch mcconnell's senate after donald trump lost the 2020 presidential election that tells us something it's it's a data point and donald trump made the demand that she appoint a special master and here's something i've never seen in my 30 years as a prosecutor brian the judge before she even asked the prosecutors at the department of justice to state their opinion to file their brief to argue their case she said i tentatively am inclined to grant donald trump's request for a second master that's not the way litigation is supposed to work you hear from both parties and then you make your announcement whether tentative or final she didn't do that now she's kind of found herself in a tough spot because the department of justice filed a motion that legally and factually knocks out of the box every legal argument donald trump's defense team made as to why she should appoint a special master here's what i suspect she's going to do i make this prediction at my own peril she's going to try to save face by say well i'll appoint a special master only to review those few potential attorney-client privileged documents that the prosecutors have already set aside and segregated as part of their uh privilege review process and the special master can look at those but not you know the lion's share of the documents which were the classified materials that trump stole and was illegally concealing at mar-a-lago that gives her an opportunity to save face but here's the thing we saw in the government's reply to donald trump's motion that they have already reviewed all the documents and they're already following up on all of the investigative leads and the national security leads to assess the damage that may have been done to our our national security so look the horse is out of the barn and galloping around in the evidentiary field and it really doesn't make sense to close the barn door now by appointing a special master okay so let's finish off with this republicans are claiming that everything was already declassified um i've done videos on this myself basically explaining that while trump can initiate declassification procedures it can't just be done by fiat like especially with materials related to human sources and nuclear secrets but besides that can you speak on why if this is really trump's defense his lawyers didn't argue that in court they didn't argue it in court because it's untrue donald trump you know donald trump can post anything he wants on his little media platform um he can say anything he wants on fox entertainment but if he had in fact declassified anything that would have been prominently featured in the litigation in court it wasn't it's untrue and then the other um the other reason that this is a red herring is because the three crimes that the judge said there was probable cause to believe were committed and there was evidence of those crimes located on the property at mar-a-lago on august 8th the day they went into search none of those three crimes require classification so the whole thing is a donald trump production it's a sideshow it's irrelevant yeah what's new uh glenn thank you so much for your time i really appreciate it and uh and for anybody listening and watching if you want to hear or see more from glenn check out justice matters on youtube i appreciate you taking the time thanks brian [Music]

Channel: Brian Tyler Cohen

Views: 3,320,432

Keywords: Brian Tyler Cohen, Trump, Republicans, Democrats, brian cohen, glenn kirschner, trump indicted, trump convicted, fbi search, mar-a-lago classified, january 6 trump

Id: 0LQPlnpkKkg

Length: 17min 29sec (1049 seconds)

Published: Mon Sep 05 2022