TOP 5 Lists of NOVA 2023 Reviewed! - Middle Earth Strategy Battle Game | MESBG

[Music] welcome to into the west of Middle Earth SVG podcast my name is Charles with me today are Richard Ian and a special guest Brian is also from the Pacific Northwest and he is uh actually down from down in Seattle our rival City to Vancouver and today we're going to be talking about Nova open Brian recently attended and it actually did really well you can see his uh trophy in the back there we're actually going to talk about the event but specifically focusing on the top five lists before we get started I just want to thank our patrons for supporting us if you want to see our videos early and see some exclusive content please check it out along with all of our perks the link is in the description so Nova open for those that who don't know is the largest event in North America and it happens once a year at about around the beginning of September in Washington DC Richard Yin and I we all three of us have gone before but we didn't get a chance to go this year so you know we're we're all just excited to talk about it and Brian share some of his first hand experience Brian maybe you can uh tell us a little bit about your uh gaming experience I know we've played with you in local tournaments quite a bit but I believe this might be your first International or International for us but like a big national tournament for you I'd argue Clash is right up there in scale and competition outside of clash yeah this is the first time I ever had to fly bringing my models so yeah this was kind of my first big non-drivable distance tournament but yeah Clash was pretty great last year for to Prime for this so and and how was the TSA experience yeah actually it was great uh I was told that I was always gonna get checked but I never got checked so everything went rather smoothly yeah I guess they always look at those little like carrying cases so weird because it looks like a little like handgun case well yeah you know you have metal models right yeah yeah I never got stopped or frisked or anything so just kind of rolled about my day and I'm sure before you went down this year you've heard us all talk about Nova open year after year or so did it live up to the hype a tough first question permission to be candid uh I it was uh in scale and in board and in everything yeah I I would say yes ish i for some reason I was expecting I guess an articon of the Americas and it wasn't quite that but yeah I guess it did yeah it lived up to expectations I exceeded mine but yeah great time though uh nine out of ten would go again if I didn't have to fly across the country I would give it a 10 out of 10. so we're gonna go over the top five lists and uh we'll start with number five and in fifth place was Samir and Samir brought an assault on the flooring and legendary Legion um just a recap I didn't mention in the beginning and this is a 650 Point tournament and it is six games so all six scenario pools were played at the veto system was in effect so in samir's list we have musger who since the FAQ has to be the leader and in his warband there are nine orc warriors with spear three or trackers and one bat swarm and then we had Drew zag leading four giant spiders five Goblin Warriors five Goblin Prowlers one bat swarm and then we had a goblin Shaman with five Goblin Warriors one Goblin warrior with spear and then another five Goblin Prowlers and then we had an orc captain on War leading six orc warriors with spear and three or trackers so this is a total of 52 models what do you guys think well just going by the player so we we kind of know Samir a bit from the Philly group and he's a very solid player actually at Nova last year that Charles and I attended he actually took assault on La Florian too but that was obviously pre-nerf and I think he finished pretty similar too he was like six or seven I guess maybe I am wrong because you know after the recent FAQ I said that AOL is no longer any good but it seems like you know if the same player at the same like annual event has found similar success you know there must be some Merit to this list still I said it was still good oh yeah I think it's still very strong I think it's just yeah it's just a little easier to counter now but I mean like he is still a very solid player like you said and do you know how many assault on lothorian lists there were in the event this year I wanted to add that I actually played almost an exact clone of this list on game four on table two not the same player I had to double check because it looked almost identical in terms of model count two bat swarms Captain Shaman Drew zag musker so I want to say there was at least two I think there might have been a third but there was two that was always floating at the top including this player the thing that stood out to me right away and it was painfully stood out to me when we played because again I played on the exact copy of this list was the captain versus North Shaman I'm curious what you guys think the way AOL plays um especially in a Beto tournament I don't think you need the March I think an arc Shaman would have done a lot more with the re-roll magic it's a third transfix and critically you get the orc courage which is half your army now yeah I agree I think the workshop in plays into this list better um I mean the captain on a Warg is still like he's kind of like a pseudo hitter right you combine him with the bat storm he can still do some damage to like smaller Heroes but I do think in general yeah you probably want the work Shaman first and then at higher points maybe you throw in the captain yeah I think I think that was more the idea it was less than March but I think the mounted hitter because you know I played AOL at 800 points and I think Brian played a similar list and we both had the wild work Chief and um it was nice having a 10-inch move thread so maybe that's kind of like a like a cheap substitute for that yeah but you can't enrage it right so it doesn't really hit as hard but yeah it's 650 and then also I thought it was interesting there's no Marauders but probably just points wise to too much I think but very strong list still still slaps hard it's the worst thing I wanted to see as an ingmar player I find this list kind of interesting with the amount of trackers I guess he's still kind of taking advantage of the plus one to Moon even though he doesn't have the 18 inch range another benefit is that they're cheaper than Orcs um so in a lot of ways because you need to bring Orcs anyway like you get some bows and they're cheap and it kind of allows you to pump up your Goblin like with Spears and Bows a lot more or more Prowlers I thought it was interesting at first too then I started playing around with some lists myself I'm like oh yeah there's actually this is actually not bad when you have to take the same amount of Works anyway I find it interesting that there are no models with shields it might make like a list really vulnerable because the highest fence he has is defense for in his army well yeah and sometimes you don't want to kill stuff right like sometimes you just need some Shields or like send two to double shield against the big hero right um yeah yeah so he probably answers your question why uh he didn't go with any Marauders because he probably needed all the bodies he can get because he doesn't have any shields in the list I mean 52 at 650 is pretty disgusting yeah it's a lot of models and a lot of shooting is it 16 bows plus 10 throwing weapons yeah yeah yeah I still a lot of pew pew and like yeah he doesn't have the like max range but he only like he still has 10 shots that are shooting at 18 with a plus one to wound yeah and with Beto you get to eliminate some very unfavorable 24-inch deployment so you can get you can you can maximize your output it still looks just as scary as it used to be honestly it's just a little more vulnerable to counter fire now what do you guys think about the uh was it musger having to be that like it doesn't feel like it's actually that bad of a Nerf I think it's minor I personally probably prefer druzek and you know one time ashraq and I I kind of like those um ashrax is a spicy one but I I think Drew zag is probably a slightly better leader I don't think it matters that much but yeah it's it's a minor nerve I mean the biggest difference is musger doesn't have cave dweller right so your enemy gets bonus to wound him with shooting right yeah yeah and you still got like he's what he's two attacks at fight four right so I mean he's not great in combat but at least he could fight a troop and be okay like it's not very like they're gonna win in wound him yeah it's more so that like musger is the one that you kind of want to be fighting to restore his will or as Drew zaggy or just chilling in the back yeah that's good though makes makes the list a little more interesting you got choices to make yeah the other version of this list that was the same I think finished like ninth um so in the top ten so two two aols in the top ten or is it three in the top ten might have been another one okay okay I'll I'll admit it I might have gone a little overboard with this list anyways let's move on to list four this one is from Ted Cantu and it is a green Alliance of Minister and fiefdoms so go over minister so warband one we have her in the tall on horse leading 10 Warriors Ministry Earth with Shield one night administered with Shield warband two Gondor Avenger bolt thrower and then warbath three is from the fiefdoms it is Prince emrill on Armored horse with Lance leading five minute arms one X-Men of osternock one klansman of lamadin two black reveal archers two black movie archers with spear and the final warband is four along the fat on horse leading five minute arms two black root Veil archers and one black root Veil Archer with spear so that's a total of 36 models well the biggest thing that stands out for me is the Avenger bull thrower it's it's sort of a more of like a fun profile here locally in our in our meta here and I think generally a lot of players would prefer the trebuchet so kind of interesting pick here but otherwise this seems like a pretty solid delicious to me yeah I didn't get to play it but it looks great I mean her and emmerhill for long on horse it's pretty hard for you know Minister that's pretty good healthy model count I mean yeah it's it's gonna pull you in with the shooting the troops grind and then the three Heroes of plus Wonder Woman just Smash down all the troops right though I'm assuming this is for all Combat City whenever they close into into into fighting it's handy that um Prince Emery Hall has the Gondor keyword because then the Heron can protect him and use his rule on him right yeah and then His Banner effect is affecting all of the fiefdom stuff and even though he doesn't have an actual Banner in the list he can just veto out those scenarios with the interviews so yeah this is it's interesting combo I mean the bull thrower's still pretty cheap like if you run it like with nothing it's only 50 points so I mean it's that or maybe like another small hero but when it gets to be uh yeah in mail stream it deploys but in all the other scenarios it's uh you know it's a secret little drop that you can put down if you don't want to like if you kind of want to hide the rest of your Force too so you could just say hey I got this shooting Lane that objective over there I'm just gonna put it looking right at it it's not bad I think maybe Maelstrom is probably the the one that this list might have the most trouble with because I think you the best one for this list is probably command the battlefield but if you don't get that one it is heirlooms or hold ground you might have a bit of an issue because I I have played um Siege weapons in the past and yeah it's definitely tricky in Maelstrom and then you don't have a March which we've already discussed is kind of okay in veto but this Army just I feel like bits better when it's either castling up or you know once in combat it's fighting in like a really like I guess like a shield wall kind of thing but that's a club review because that is the only scenario that this player lost I'm looking at his BCP he's the only one that he got a major loss everything else major wins and then a minor win uh to finish fourth so yeah perfect for the Maelstrom 36 is pretty good at 650. I keep thinking these are like 800 pointless it's just it's where my mind goes but yeah those that those numbers are pretty good considering everybody's like they're either D6 or they're fight four yeah I agree about the uh Maelstrom being a weakness because uh even in Heron's warband there there aren't any Spears there so I think this list was built to um fight together like a deathball sort of formation like maybe if the they replaced the Gondor Avenger both are over with uh madro that could be super well-rounded but yeah yeah yeah you get three models with both door though yeah Mandrell is just a single but yeah yeah it gives you if you work March and then also in Maelstrom he's he's great uh I can see the appeal that both were though because if your strategy is to draw the enemy in it prevents you having to take like maximum bows of Rangers because that would bring a lot more defense for into your army you're more likely to break and so I understand if you want to keep the Firepower this this is another way to go so uh it's it's really uh it's really really an interesting list and I'm not too surprised it did well and then in third place we have Brian's list why don't I let you go break down your list and um just let everyone know what's what's in the army yeah so I went in just wanting to take something that I felt really comfortable with that I knew really well and that's why I selected angmar I kind of been in a pseudo break from the game for most of the summer I think the one Vancouver tournament that I attended up there it's kind of like that in one other game or the only dice I've thrown in like six months so I wanted to take something I felt really comfortable with and angmar's my baby so especially if I'm Gonna Fly halfway across the continent I want to take something I know really well and so I took anymore which Kings was my leader 3 14 3 which is very comfortable with how I like to play The Witch King I typically like to play conservative early spellcaster heavy support you know he's my leader VPS and then I'll kind of go in and clean up some combats at the end when I need to Crown of course uh horse six works with Shield five works with spear a banner with a shield and spear which by the way shows how great of a player I am I play down the spear the whole tournament I forgot that I paid the point for it um I thought it was just a shield though look at me playing playing 6 49 the whole tournament that was that warband then I had gulabar I can tell you very clearly I think at the tournament had written gulabar off due to the FAQ um I had people walk walk up to me and go oh a gulabar I think there was one another angmar at the tournament that also had gulovar but I don't think people were expecting to see it with the with the shooting here um or the Nerf to it in terms of the in the west but I knew with veto and the abilities of the list that I think it could be very effective still and his War band was three Orcs of Shield three or four works with bow Specter and the two Borg riders with Throne Spears and these are these are my F-16 Tom Cruise fighter jets because they don't got any Shields because I'm too lazy to model the shields on so they're just throwing Spears they're outdated technology they were painted in like 2014 they look hideous uh they're my beasts they're my I love those guys those two little work work Riders did so much work and then finally uh Mr Barry White himself with forks with Shield forks with spear just really simple very clean a lot of people like to put shields on their Spears for angmar but again I'm a lazy hobbyist I painted this Army this is my first fully painted army and it is what it is so didn't bother adding them and 36 models which I think was very healthy for angmar with the with the 200 Point hero in it just the one Specter yeah I'm a one inspector guy I know a lot of people like to do too but I'm a one Specter guy interesting yeah to tear me apart but usually see two or three interesting three I think it's too much two I think is probably the right number but I knew the way I planned the list was at 15 points I'd have to drop two more Orcs And I just didn't want to go down to 34. I hadn't play tested this exactly at six people I played anymore so much that I I feel really in tune where where the Army's gonna break if I was at 34 I knew I was going to break more often I'm then 36 just just kind of gut feeling and uh yeah I never broke the whole tournament so I think I think I played it right considering the outcome but yeah feel free to dive in third part I feel like that says something there though like that you didn't break the entire tournament because like 36 is good numbers but they're mostly D4 D5 models so that's that's pretty crazy it's not that many dead guys to bring which is yeah that's that's pretty wild is it possible to learn this power I don't think there's much to tear apart here and Brian will probably ask you to talk about it this a bit later your experience but you know the fact that you were pretty much you know about to win this tournament and you were like some little technicality away from doing so I think this list is definitely like you know as optimized as it could get and um I think what you talked about with the FAQ Nerf like I personally don't think it's that big of a deal I think we talked about it on that FAQ episode too yeah I think whoever is complaining about it I think it's valid it does change a little bit how you need to play but if you're an experienced egg Mar player I don't think you'll honestly affect you too much yeah I mean I think it's concerned is evil shooting right but yeah it is a sizable Nerf but I if you ever if you wrote you know gulabar off I think that was a mistake so we hardly ever played 650 points here locally so I actually wouldn't exactly be able to give my thoughts on like how I would have written it but I think if I was to take angmar to um to this event I think these would be the heroes I would take I might try to drop some some things to get my numbers up a little higher it's impressive that you were able to not break all weekend with 36 total 36 is good but like like Ian said for a fight three defense five I mean you can yeah broken a lot of people are like oh you didn't want a captain for March and I'm like oh no I would love it but um these are the heroes I think you and I agree you need like to build a tournament winning angler Army you need these three Heroes and I could veto stuff that would screw me over in March right so yeah if you wanted to put in March then you've got to take out one of the heroes or have really low numbers which exactly and I just couldn't do that yeah yeah so yeah well done I I think the running theme that I see is like when it's veto and it's like lower points like March like suddenly drops in importance by crazy ML and I think I mean personally we've heard some feedback where people have told us like how they think we overrate March but I think it's more probably just our local scene where we play 800 points and a lot of just peer random scenarios so it's like you you could very much easily get the ones that you absolutely need March I think it really comes down to how your tournaments are formatted yeah yeah agreed then uh in second place we have a list from Evan Iverson and he took the pits of dogolder legendary Legion so in the first war band we have Azog on work leading three Hunter Works Two Gun about Orcs with Shield five Orcs with spear and shield one gun about fork with spear shield and banner and one fell org in the second war band we have a hunter or Captain leading three Hunter Orcs Two Gun a bad Orcs of Shield five good about Orcs with spear and shield and one foul work and the third warband is another Hunter World captain and this is the exact same warband and then a final war band of throwing the broken thoughts yeah it blew my mind that he didn't have a war horn and just a spoiler alert there was at least six to seven of pizza dolglador at this tournament may represent almost 10 percent of the armies that I can math my head but a significant amount in the armies including I played Pittsburgh on top table for game five and then this Army in game six so it was crushing with Vito but I was shocked that Evan did not have a warhorn because if asog's not charging you can't win unless you're playing completely to the objective but yeah do you guys think that there's an increase of this Legion due to Something in the FAQ or or maybe just coincidence I mean I I think it's always been a bit underrated in like lower points and I think maybe it's just we don't have as many around here one of our bigger tournaments this earlier this year you know TYC it was 500 points and I was on top table and my final game was also against a pits list so I think it definitely has potential at like you know 650 and under yeah this was definitely The Meta at I think 650 to 500 is where it excels and then the fact that you get to veto I think really made this thing pop and I think a lot of people went in with that expectation at this tournament Brian I would think that your list matches quite well against uh this list just just yeah uh but I ended up losing it on top table to this list I took a minor loss five to three but uh I think I only lost five Orcs I broke them uh but he had the objective and he got it to my side on the last turn for 5-3 loss uh precedes the prize but if you just looked at like what was on the table just crushed it from a numbers perspective I would I would love to play this I played it game five got a major win and then game six took a minor loss but both times I knew without a shadow of the doubt that I was going to break the Army then I would and I would not break because they would never be able to charge me one of the Legion special rules is everyone gains a resistance to Magic right so even though this type of list is vulnerable to Magic did you feel like that Special Rule made it tougher on you well I mean it certainly made some of my tricks tougher but when you're when they literally can't charge you um uh it it doesn't make a difference when you're putting like five works on one like um sure I'm I'm draining Resources by casting you know drain curriages and and paralyzes on Heroes but it's great because there's only one here you really have to worry about the hunter or captains aren't too bad because they're never going to charge anything the magic thing's annoying but if you just position your control zones well you just grind out the game that's kind of how I played both of them unfortunately I did not get the prize if you just looked at it from a model perspective I did very I think I did very well against these two lists it's kind of an interesting combo but it feels like like you know how you see people running the hunter org list with the three minor Heroes it kind of feels like that at 500 points but then you just you swap out one of the minor ones for asog and I feel like it plays kind of like fairly similar to that like you just you're relying on the fact that the hunt you're just putting out so many strength for attacks just the volume of attacks is is pretty high and then obviously the jump scare from asog is pretty powerful and then literal combats I wanted to ask you Brian is the rain the broken was that like a is that like a meme pick or is that like an actual like competitive thing is he broken yeah it's totally broken that was the first thing I said when I bought the new uh Army book I texted Pat in Portland and I was like man I can't believe how broken they made the rain but no um no it's totally a meme pick uh which is just a testament to how skilled Evan is this player that he that he got me with a uh with a meme and he got and he got second place because it never did anything it never pops off maybe like once a game you'll get it to go off but he's usually out of position and in a game like fogger born assassination you could totally just lose you but because I think it was veto you can kind of protect it but like yeah you'd rather just have a good work with shield and spear every time I think the warband drop though because he's he's separate right by him yeah he's by himself but that's that's pretty that's the only thing that's the only thing but I mean well I mean he's also like a fight four piece which I mean it's not a lot but when the rest of your army is fight three he was a contender for uh our Force hero of the game video and I think it was Ian who really tried hard to defend his potential I've played this list personally and no it's awful it's it just doesn't it's never gonna do what you dream it to do and I swear the only every time he's puffed off into Super thrain he was out of position he couldn't charge anything because he had like lost it and they just moved him five inches away the term before so he's just always out on his own but yeah Testament to Evan skill that he was able to do this with that pick I think I stood by three and when he was unbroken and damn it I'm gonna stand by him when he's broken really that's the hill you're gonna die on talk is cheap yeah [Laughter] I do have a golden Army too we'll go to our final list this was first place the tournament winning list from Kylie all the way from Australia and it may come as a surprise but it was host of the Dragon Emperor Mitchell Hammond to eat your heart out I've taken it to two termites I've taken the legion to two tournaments and have yet to Podium with it so we don't have a detailed warband breakdown so I'll just go over what is in the Army so we have the Dragon Emperor of Rune rutabi and Brewer gear and the Warriors in this list are nine black dragons with Pike and shield six black dragons with Shield three black dragon cataphracts including a wardrobe three easterling warriors with bows five acolytes with axes and one wardrake a total of 30 models I think probably the only slight surprise here is the war Drake I haven't really seen anyone like take that one competitively the model count is pretty is surprisingly low for this Legion I thought so and a dropping a drake for two easterling second Kelps but I guess it doesn't increase your break point so maybe that's why you could also drop the axes on the acolytes and try to fit one more I don't know strength four though that's nice because you don't care about the defense that's chop through I think it's also because of her hero choices she doesn't get any more free black dragons with the heroes that she's picked right I'm assuming all of them are sitting in the emperor's warband right so going the more Elites or archers and the other two warbands makes more sense to me I guess but these are the three Heroes you take though right every time yeah yeah it just makes it the most versatile list I think like you could swap Roar here for a dragon knight but I don't think that's as solid I think the extra well even just the enchant blades on the emperor on rutabi is big but then the the potential for the um the Tremors is also really great and the and the Fury especially as a Neymar player because I played I played a host to the emperor that did not have brogar and it it made a big difference so in this Legion the first like 300 or so points is pretty much always the same and so it doesn't leave a lot of room for variation at 650 but you know everything in this list looks looks good to me I mean if you think about it 30 models is not bad at all because like the way I look at it they're basically elves So you you're taking 30 elves at you know 650 that's super solid they basically move as fast as Kev so yeah like mildurian Exile elves and then you get another six if you need to hold the center objective whenever you want that you just add right after right um like on the last turn so not broken at all I mean that that doesn't take away obviously from Kylie because like she obviously won the arcticon Masters came to America and then won Nova so like she's gonna do well whatever the list but yes like this is a broken ass list yeah I think for an easterling list like this it still actually has like a reasonable amount of hitting power outside of the heroes like three cataphracts you know it adds knockdown where you need it but it can find combining a cataphract with an acolyte that has an ax that can Pierce or even the Wardrobe because that has strength four right like it actually can hit like in combat a bit more than you'd expect um at like a higher strength value it would have to hit harder because in this build you're not going for the overwhelming numbers so you you kind of need the hitting power because you're not able to grind as long as normal so that has been a review of the top five lists at the Nova open GT 2023 so just have a few questions now for Brian you talked a little bit at the beginning about your experience going overseas uh for the or going over to flying on on a plane for a tournament for the first time going in what did you think of this meta outside of uh what you're used to I will say it's hard to tell on a single trip and I also think the format with Vito really warps any analysis that I provide like I think there were lists that were taken to this you know decisions that were made with that veto allows that may not be a true reflection of kind of like the meta of a Nova or even just the East Coast United States but that being said I I did have some initial thoughts and correct me if I'm wrong anyone on the East Coast wants to come at me but Terror was just not a factor for a lot of lists I don't know if they've kind of lost playing against stingmar they've lost playing against Terror causing armies for the most part it kind of felt like maybe that just wasn't the case whereas you know out here oh boy there's Terror every single one of us at one point is helmed and angmar list but also deal with you know black numenorian spam Mordor half troll lists we bring tools um to deal with uh terrafront lines um and I can't at least maybe with the list I saw that didn't always feel the case over there yeah I think that Rings quite true from some of the East Coast players that I've talked to um they seem to really heavily rely on higher numbers than us and they really like the heavy numbers and I think their Theory is that if they get enough dice rolling even if it's low courage to get in they'll eventually charge in but I think you know us here on the West Coast we I don't know we keep things more simple and we just get something that gives fearless or we like to include that for a well-rounded Army Brian thanks for coming on to the podcast to talk to us about your experience at Nova and also you know join us in breaking down the top five lists and yeah thank you viewers for tuning in look forward to the next episode of into the West podcast foreign

Channel: Into the West

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Id: 2zorSivJgUg

Length: 33min 38sec (2018 seconds)

Published: Sun Sep 10 2023