Top 12 Sagas of DragonBall (FULL VIDEO) | DBcember 2021

[Music] dragon ball dragon ball dragon ball rocks dragon ball z and dbgt super and heroes and movies galore tv specials and so much more dragon ball dragon ball dragon ball rocks dragon ball fans to dragon ball stands raiding debating we're making a list soon they'll all be pissed what the hey cut the music cut the music lenny where's our third person huh i thought you were in charge of picking them uh no this is not a scotocracy yeah i'm gonna need a third person because i can't take your terrible portmanteaus all by myself kieran help hey is it that time of the year again yep it's db sember but it's not just any december it's the last december yeah after seven years of dragon ball related countdowns we feel like this yearly celebration has run its course and we feel there's no better way to wrap up this tradition than by giving our top 12 dragon ball sagas oh [ __ ] yes so that obviously means the list will include dragon ball z gt and super right three of those yeah wow i can't believe super didn't make the list oh okay no yeah i get it well uh you guys have fun with that because i'm gonna go visit my family in florida for the holidays merry christmas [ __ ] kieran out he chose gt over us he chose florida over us well that's fine we've got other options right hey grant what are you doing oh hey lanny hey kaiser i was just finishing up my 100 run of the new tales game well stop with that anime [ __ ] because we need to talk about anime [ __ ] it's december time but cure decided to dragon ball gtfo so we call upon your aid once more hmm hey lanny yay remember when you jokingly blamed episode 60 being delayed on me yeah and how i was told [ __ ] you grant by the fan base for nearly a year yeah yeah yeah and unlike you nerds i've had my fill of anime [ __ ] with all those my hero reviews good luck with the countdown though oh [ __ ] no grant no kieran and that means the only one left is sorry can't do it [ __ ] why i'm too busy ever since i became a youtuber my schedule's been packed also trying to record those scripts as a nightmare yeah they can be impenetrable walls of convoluted text they're nuanced and descriptive you write like anime sounds but yeah sorry guys uh i can't help this year but if you want i can be in the intro video well i guess it could just be the two of us nick we need a third person so we don't get stuck in a drag mire and that's uh a quagmire but specifically related to dragon ball discussion kaiser that's just it's totally not funny dude wait a second totally not funny totally not i've got it a better understanding of comedy nope a third person for this year's december a special guest star oh oh yeah i can see it but will he do it well there's only one way to find out hey totally not mark oh hey um uh hi guys uh why are you shouting because you're all the way across the pond don't mark we need you to be our third for this year's db sember it's the finale and we're going over our top 12 dragon ball sagas wow that's kind of perfect i actually only recently reread the first several arcs of dragon ball from peel off to piccolo jr and reviewed them over on my channel totally not mark and besides being the perfect setup for a plug they've got me primed and ready for this sweet good to have you on board bro but before we start the final countdown we'll have to lay down some ground rules one a saga in this regard means a collection of smaller arcs that tell a larger story i.e dynamic arc ginyuak and fraser arc will be combined into the namek saga same with the android arc and the cell arc making the android saga and the half a dozen mini arcs that ultimately make of the buu saga two there are countless factors that are considered while reviewing an overall story including but not limited to its pacing narrative structure its themes and consistency in using those themes its effective use of drama and so on we'll try our best to provide an effective breakdown on how these sagas work and don't work in our opinion and three we won't be including heroes the super manga or any of the movies or specials so expect only the original dragon ball dragon ball z dragon ball gt and the super anime uh about gt oh you didn't alright folks now that we have the rules out of the way deck your halls and grab some balls because it's time to get this countdown started kieran's gotta be pissed yeah funny that 12. you know maybe last year should have been the last db december is it too late to back out now we had this discussion it went up to a vote now i know this is going to be a point of controversy when it comes to the available sagas in the dragon ball cannon one of them had to make the bottom of this list there was a long exhausting dare i say bloody conversation about whether or not it should be a saga from gt or goku black i suggested the shadow dragon saga from gt for being such a brilliant concept if done poorly with what is debatably the best ending in all of dragon ball and i was leaning a little more towards the baby saga for being the only saga in gt that didn't make me want to pull an eternal sunshine of the spotless mind to forget the agony but i can't lie gt not making this list is a bittersweet victory emphasis on the bitter the ending of the goku black saga is a mind-bogglingly depressing gallingly nihilistic finale to an otherwise rollercoaster of a story while there are many many hiccups leading into the last two episodes it really felt like they were pulling out all the stops to give us a satisfactory bombastic finish only for them to follow up that amazing climax with rocks drop everyone dies on the entire universe proving their actions were essentially all for naught dooming an entire timeline to a permanent state of null and the light at the end of the tunnel for trunks and my is immensely awkward essentially having to live alongside their alternate versions of themselves in another timeline and of course the saga has a ton of other issues goku for getting both the senzu and the talisman for the mufaba them having to return to the future not twice but three whole times trunks learning the mafaba via piccolo's youtube tutorial video it's a flawed frustrating saga that admittedly dropped the ball in a big way and not just once so why kaiser why because damn it when it first started airing it shocked the fandom when it was revealed that our main antagonist was going to be an evil version of goku folks thought it was going to be the biggest shark jump of the franchise but the first episode of the saga proper is one of the most effective and gripping in all of dragon ball scots got a point about that first episode the darker apocalyptic tone matched up with some amazing art direction and stellar animation supported by some of the best music in super at that point makes black's introduction something special in terms of setting up an intimidating villain this saga is hard to beat and the following episode sets up a huge arc long mystery and it was exceptionally cool to see them try and tie in old characters and concepts like the second time machine cell used the mababa and the concept of gods in the kaioshin and while i feel they mishandled the dissented to madness on behalf of zamasu that character was a fresh new archetype for the series with a twisted moral complexity that was missing from previous villains it is also shocking that goku black as a character is largely effective you'd think evil goku would be boring and cliche but it's undeniable that the performance from moscow nozawa actually enhances this character with her soft cold calculated speech honestly by the virtue of being sub only for so long super introduced nozawa to a huge amount of dub only fans who'd undervalued her performance for years and the art direction makes a point to emphasize black's twisted nature all the way down to his black and red ghee those toothy grins narrowed eyes and pompous poses give him a real presence that elevates him from a bad concept unwell to a sincerely memorable villain with a lot of gravity too bad the story decides to fuse him into a more boring version of both of them though merge zamasu does have some brilliant moments visually his character effectively loses everything that made him interesting complex and intimidating turning him into just another pompous villain for goku and the gang to put down but guys many of the fights in this saga are awesome some of the best saga got in dragon ball up until that point happened in this saga and this is seen all the way up until the climax where trunks whips out his plot sword and vertically bisex merged zamasu there was so much hype i remember cheering with friends while watching it and then what kaiser you know what lanny we all do are we also going to ignore how it introduces a second omni king because one wasn't enough and also the weird love triangle stuff with my trunks and trunks listen i know it's got its low points but its highs are astronomical for every moment where we groaned inside there was another we cheered and lost our collective [ __ ] over it's a mixed bag no doubt about it but i truly think it earns its spot at number 12 by introducing a complex antagonist tackling some dark existential themes making goku black an incredibly effective villain and providing some of the best action dragon ball has seen up until that point fair enough still think the shadow dragons were way cooler the trunks and my stuff was a little weird though right a little eleven and speaking of my uh guys what's with all the people holding pitchforks and burning torches oh that's just the og dragon ball fans furious that pilaf made it this low on the countdown this cannot be a surprise okay kaiser go ahead be that fan i assure you i don't understand the connotation the peel off saga or hunt for the dragon ball saga is a [ __ ] gem and it's the closest thing dragon ball has to a flawless arc on this entire list hot off toriyama's highly successful run of dr slump this is where it all began with a story full of comedy perverted antics mystical adventure and more comedy featuring a classic colorful cast of characters each chapter and episode is packed with charm and laughter with each new character that we meet and bigger hurdle that goku overcomes we're further enchanted and engrossed into this world until the wild climax that ties everything together with the funniest ending in the franchise there's really a charm in its simplicity isn't there spanning only 23 chapters of the manga and 13 episodes of the anime this is a comparably light read all things considered but it delivers heaps of jokes fanservice and a delightfully straightforward story the ending with the reveal of goku's backstory involving grandpa go on is still an emotional gut punch obviously while this saga is near the bottom it's certainly not because it does anything more wrong than the sagas above it in fact i'd be inclined to agree this sag is generally harmless but in that simplicity it also doesn't quite reach the same highs as the other sagas aspire to that just isn't what toriyama was pursuing he wanted something more in the vein of dr slump meets journey to the west and by god he nailed it but the lack of ambition in the story also keeps it lower on this list shout out to the beeloff gang for somehow managing to maintain a presence in the series all the way to super even if the road there was full of questionable methods and even more questionable ships it's also worth noting that the length of this saga doesn't do it many favors it's one of the shortest on this list without any prior setup meaning that a lot of its time is spent establishing characters concepts locations etc but that's also arguably to its benefit keeping it short briskly paced with plenty of jokes per minute peel off is low on our list but this is the place where it all started where the concept of dragon balls were introduced where bulma met goku went shot him in the [ __ ] head where a transforming pig stole child wives and yamcha tried to mug them in the desert where a goblin boy accompanied by an adult woman and a talking dog tried to conquer the world only to be thwarted by a 12 year old hick where goku would make a fateful lunch date with a silly lovesick girl who would one day become his wife where we first saw the kamehameha which kids would make a pastime mimicking in their backyards for decades to come where the magic began almost 30 years ago that still miraculously continues to this day sure it's unambitious but it's also heartfelt endearing inspired this saga may not reflect what the series as a whole has to offer but it's a perfectly paced simple enchanting story about a little monkey boy taking off a teenage girl's panties before she flashes a lecherous man old enough to be her grandfather and that's a story we can all relate to real glad goku learned to tell the difference between boys and girls before he was old enough for that to become a much more serious issue now i'm imagining adult goku giving the old pat pat to vegeta when he first showed up or beerus you know he stared at wheeze long enough to consider it 10. y'all ever think credibility is overrated as our people don't tune in to us for our credibility they tune in to us for our honesty and honestly i'm surprised that this made it above pilaf considering that this saga may have some of the lowest lows in all of dragon ball super i mean nothing can compete with the resurrection f saga it's astounding that the series managed to recover from what should have been for all intents and purposes a mortal wound if i may the universe survival saga often referred to as the termite of power saga honestly contains a couple of my favorite moments from dragon ball in it from the very beginning we're treated to one of the best opening themes dragon ball has to offer following up the worst opening theme song in dragon ball don't shift plus to me which honestly got me back into the gym it's such a banger and then there's the exhibition and recruitment arcs which are included in this entry almost everyone's recruitment came with a moment from them to not only show off their skills but also a character moment with goku aided by a couple of honestly amazing fights and don't even get me started on frieza while the fandom's initial response to the replacement of boo was rightfully exasperated and annoyed frieza subbing in may have been one of the best choices they could have made both for the tournament and for the character one of frieza's most important attributes is his sadism he's not just ruthless he takes pleasure in the act of torturing and killing his opponents and though we get to see a little bit of that in the resurrection f arc there's something about the way he's depicted here that sells his demented attitude so much more his stunning transformation into golden frieza his dismantling of the universe 4 assassins and the subsequent match afterwards are all amazing and perfectly set up the dynamic between frieza and universe 7 for the tournament of power i remember the backlash over boo being benched the base went ballistic but now well we can't imagine the top without frieza i also want to add when goku is shadow sparring on uranai baba's ring he's actually recreating his fight move for move against his grandpa back during the red ribbon army saga which as far as easter eggs go is pretty [ __ ] phenomenal and then the actual tournament is full of hype moments while it takes a fine bit for the fights to really warm up the first time we see goku tap into ultra instinct will forever stick in the minds of every dragon ball fan especially when that music hits just you also have huge heartfelt callbacks and tributes to dragon ball throughout one of the best finishing moves in the franchise against kefla and one of the biggest climactic battles in all of anime with frieza 17 and goku vs jiren the tournament of power is one giant love letter to all of dragon ball it spends so much of its time reminding us of everything that came before it all the while bombarding us with a cavalcade of battles new characters and conflicts being supported by an army of both veteran animators and fantastic newbies all giving it their 100 to deliver a standout climactic finish to a heavily flawed series y'all really going to make me do it huh i have to be the heel but watching this season week to week was a trial and not in the oh my god i can't wait to see what happens next week the suspense is killing me kind of way but more the what the hell was that that's how they took out 10 shinhan what do you mean it's only been 10 minutes in the tournament it's been like five episodes that's how they took out piccolo jesus the color pilot on these backgrounds is ugly as sin this boring pile of roided up area 51 paraphernalia is our main antagonist sort of way it was a slog for longtime fans like myself and while a narratively relevant callback or reference can help elevate a scene i have to put my foot down over them breaking out vegeta's sacrifice against dabu only for it's not actually cost him his life the entire point of that moment was that he was using all of his energy and giving his life in order to win without that element it's literally just the same technique piccolo used against goku in the 23rd tenkaichi budokai no emotional weight no sacrifice just a cheap insipid ploy on the behalf of the riders that left me more pissed than pumped let's not forget the use of catchy catching the hardest most durable material in the universe as the material for the ring only for it to immediately break and shatter like any other material effectively making it pointless and actually underselling the character's abilities and don't even get us started on the pacing we should have known 48 minutes was a ludicrous number but to have approximately 34 episodes take place in one location over less than an hour it's like they looked at frieza's five minutes and said hold my heat app and this wouldn't be such a chore either if the environments felt varied or visually pleasing to look at but like i said before the tournament of power's staged in environment is often intensely ugly to the point where the change in color to the sky was initially welcomed until you realize that the color actually got worse and like mark said before some of the eliminations in that tournament were downright disappointing tension han's whole [ __ ] sacrifice is made all that much worse by his two appearances in the recruitment arc being absolute character assassination and and piccolo is taken out by a character that he should literally be the best equipped for and beyond that while i love the universe 6 saiyans their ascent in terms of power is so steep and unearned that it really makes you question why the hell goku took as long as he did in a story about the struggle to grow and improve watching these three effortlessly unlock huge once character defining transformations feels like a spin to face the story and its themes thus far and there are plenty of controversial writing choices throughout between blue evolution the time dilation regarding goku's stamina recovery a questionable amount of focus on ribrianne one of the worst roshi scenes of all time the no flying roll being defied weekly and if you're not a fan of the omni king well good news there's two of them now and they will not shut the [ __ ] up and while those good animation days were much more common in this saga the bad animation days made already lackluster fights that much worse coupled with a mixed bag of new characters that range from legitimately compelling to downright forgettable to please god stop showing up i sometimes would find myself rooting for other universes to lose members faster just to get off this crazy carnival ride as fast as possible and then there's kill slash broly don't get me started and what about jiren what about jiren which i can only imagine is exactly what the writer said okay okay i hear what you're saying i value your input i've processed your opinions and i mean i agree none of what you guys said is wrong but i posit this though it may be true that there are issues all throughout this saga isn't it amazing that they all still managed to accomplish so many show-stopping moments throughout we never even talked about just how much of a boss android 17 gets to be the emotional highlight of master roshi nearly giving his life the descent of top into godhood or all the crazy variety of fighting styles hell kaiser you mad man you even argued for android 18 versus ribrianne to be in the top fights list well duh that climax is fire and mark i know the themes of trust that played heavily into the finale were a huge part of that saga for you it is definitely the highlight of the story little as there was the tournament of power may be the farthest you could get from a perfect saga but its introduction of ultra instinct themes of trust spectacular battles insanely good music and some of the best climaxes in the franchise absolutely earned it a high spot in my personal top five well hey i'm here to review not yuck people's yums so i'm glad it means so much to you man and i could totally understand your argument and i yours i'll look at you acting all civil for the people at home nah if you really want to set them off start a conversation about nozawa's goku you mean about how she's a phenomenal actress who earned the role and you all need to back the [ __ ] nine hey lanny did you know that a more proper spelling of boo would be with two o's really because the whole bibity bobbidy boo reference yep but they went with the japanese romaji spelling because they probably didn't want to risk disney giving them a hard time they probably also wanted to make boo more easily searchable online and also not sound like a ghost from super mario brothers now that we've got our dragon facts out of the way the buu saga is weird frustrating a bit of a mess it's a saga chock full of memorable moments but equally chock full of dubious decisions and disheartening disappointments the final saga of the original manga is the longest in terms of chapters second longest in terms of overall pages and maybe the most vexing on the list i've talked at length about the shortcomings of the buu saga in my video majin buu the mishandled mess in that video i mentioned that a community poll ranked this saga as the worst of dragon ball z and though that doesn't have anything to do with how we ranked this saga here the consensus is telling people generally recognize the issues with boo it has trouble getting started it's overly long so much of it does not progress the plot its main antagonist is memorable but inconsistent and it mishandles some major characters it takes the story approximately 40 of its overall length just to establish its key players and major conflict and throughout that conflict the story introduces fusion super saiyan 3 and ultimate gohan but instead of serving the narrative there flourishes that bloat it slowing the actual progress of the story down and that's not to speak of what it does to gohan's role in the narrative at the end of the cell games we see the torch passed from goku to gohan in one of the most thrilling climaxes in all of dragon ball and goku makes the choice to leave the role of earth's protector to him and arguably the role of the main character it's a huge moment and while some might argue that the journey there was flawed the outcome was decisive but once boo rears his pink ass head toriyama seemingly reneges on this decision and let me make this abundantly clear this isn't about us wanting gohan to specifically remain a fighter and to slavishly dedicate himself to training in combat like his father did honestly i love the idea of him just being a family man and doing the same man's stuff on the weekends it's cute it's fun and it fits the character but so much time is spent building up gohan as the main character even going several chapters without goku at all in the seiamen arc only for him to be firmly pushed back into the supporting role the moment goku arrives back on the scene and the amount of time dedicated to his unearned power-up is even more insulting as gohan proceeds to lose regardless completing his transition and though there's a lot to talk about with majin vegeta and how much of a fan favorite he's become we had barely gotten any time with vegeta as a quote-unquote good guy before he was back to murdering innocent people which makes the betrayal feel just a little bit rushed and hollow and despite his rematch with goku having some emotionally effective moments the actual quality of the fight is a bit of a letdown but there's something worth bringing up here more than maybe anywhere else on this list the difference between the quality of the writing and how the series actually made you feel while these moments happened because while its issues regarding the writing are widely debated there's no denying that the buu saga delivered some of the most memorable scenes creative decisions and unique techniques in the franchise which have stuck with fans years after the manga finished fusion never decisively wins a single fight in all of dragon ball with the exception of the movies vegito does manage to save his friends and family but his existence still genuinely feels more like shueisha wanted new merch and toriyama was trying to keep things fresh but dammit who doesn't love vegito or gogeta hell goten and trunks aren't even characters all on their own and go tanks is probably the worst example of fusion not accomplishing anything of value but he is a [ __ ] gas and vegeta is brutal almost surgical deconstruction of boo is one of the best beatdowns in a series of huh hey guys does this have to be the last one or and despite super saiyan 3 ultimately feeling unearned and visually polarizing its design is undoubtedly iconic and that transformation is unforgettable super saiyan 3 is a staple of the franchise now and gohan's ultimate design at his brief moment to shine are still beloved regardless of him handing back the mantle to goku and though i'm not a huge personal fan of the saiyan man arc myself that brief stint where we get to see gohan living his life as a superhero and getting to know and fall for videl are precious to a sizable amount of the fan base and though boo's lack of consistent form makes him hard to establish a firm lasting connection throughout the plot his amorphous nature also provides a wide variety of fascinating unique personalities all of which manage to leave a lasting impact in different ways from fat boo's deadly innocence to super boo's unhinged malice to kid buu's chaotic insanity what he lacks in depth he makes up in variety and mr satan's relationship with buu is surprisingly the emotional core of the entire saga advancing both of their characters in significant ways that end up paying off big in the climax and man despite the major vegeta versus goku fight not quite being the sequel their saiyan saga clash deserved the development vegeta's descent provides him is a lot of fun to follow even with its narrative issues between it being an intriguing character study and a tragic backslide for this listless ex-murderer we find a lot to glom onto here and the climax the final explosion is iconic and one of the most emotionally devastating moments in all of dragon ball it's the culmination of vegeta's countless sins and could never be replicated in dragon ball again i said and watching vegeta finally admit goku is number one satan pull out a massive w to save the entire universe and goku and the gang collectively stop buu with a spectacular spirit bomb it might be a messy ending but it's still satisfying and it's important to note that these quirks in the writing were never new to dragon ball the buu saga may just be the worst defender of the original manga toriyama's always flown by the seat of his pants sometimes they just accidentally slide off which if you think about it is incredibly toriyama we've been hard on this song in the past perhaps unfairly so and we hope that our criticism here isn't a meaningless echo we just want to communicate our issues with it the best we can while also singing its deserved praises foo isn't bad it's just complicated what about the ending oh right that's a thing kind of easy to forget it's literally the ending of the original manga isn't it well with both gt and super existing while we can all agree that the team effort culminating in the genki dama against kidbu is a remarkable finale up there with the best of them goku leaving with ub is disarmingly abrupt even though it is hinted at beforehand and some folks found it unsatisfying as a proper ending to such a long story true but there's an argument to be made that it's also in line with the nature of the series goku sees potential in this boy so much like roshi did with him and so he takes him under his wing and even bestows him with kintawoon toriyama likely didn't want to give a definitive ending because his story was all about adventure and how the adventure never ends man one could say that gt's ending is unearned in over indulgence but they both have their fans although if we're already comparing i'd argue that the end of the manga gives us a better version of pawn than gt ever did dammit we gotta end this one on a high note crap um what about the um hmm that scene where boo is squeezing toothpaste onto his toothbrush but it looks like poop eight [Music] all right i'm psyched classic dragon ball has some of my favorite arcs in all of the franchise i could really use some positivity after those bottom four agreed and luckily we're through the worst of it from here on out there should be way less negativity i think this is the worst arc of the original manga ireland's not even a real country i'm sorry i know i know this list is a celebration of dragon ball but if you watched my review of the king piccolo saga over on my channel totally not mark shameless but hustle respect hustle i talk at length about how this arc is so rife with plot contrivances and [ __ ] so blatant and galling they put almost every other arc from the original manga to shame truth is i know what you're talking about the king piccolo saga in a lot of ways is a prototype for the rest of the series introducing an overwhelming force of evil goku will have to struggle with the death of his allies and brutal combat overcoming his own failures and weaknesses in order to grow strong enough to win the day rinse and repeat but in being the first to follow this simple yet brilliantly reliable structure it has some wrinkles that would be ironed out in sagas to come but you know what let's compliment sandwich this sumbitch king piccolo is a boss and i mean that in every sense of the word too until he gathers the dragon balls he spends his time ordering around his musically inspired minions to do his bidding conducting an orchestra of death for the world's greatest martial artists but when he finally has to step out onto the battlefield he towers over the rest of the cast especially goku and unlike the red ribbon army there's a real sense of menace and danger especially as the ark itself starts with the death of krillin though fans of dragon ball would become accustomed to the death of heroes and sagas to come the shock of such a loss capping off the 22nd tenkaichi burokai was a master stroke on behalf of toriyama this one act of violence sends goku on a rampage unlike any we'd seen before almost getting him killed it's chilling and even a little scary to see our sweet little monkey boy so distraught and thirsty for blood it was a perfect way to challenge goku as a character instead of merely as a fighter and despite all his rage he's no match for king piccolo who brutalizes him leaving him for dead before he kills choutsu and roshi makes his wish on the dragon balls and then blows up shenron it's brutal it's devastating and it ratchets up the despair way more than any other arc before it and afterwards he just walks straight into the king of the world's home says this is my house [ __ ] and then proceeds to set every prisoner on the planet free and starts a goddamn purge it's insane and it really sets the stage for the climax to come but the big issue with king piccolo is that as far as villains go he's sort of textbook for all the grief and guff we give the villain lineup of gt king piccolo's entire character is literally evil demon hell bent on world domination but if the biggest problems with this arc wards boilerplate villain i'd be singing an entirely different tune the real trouble starts with toriyama's haphazard storytelling in this section king piccolo's introduction is rushed poorly explained and boring having been released off-screen in a piece of throw-away dialogue by the pilof gang and as you said he almost kills goku but somehow his hard restarts after king piccolo has left with no proper explanation after which yajirobe carries goku up corinne tower a feat so unprecedented that it feels more like a joke and finally the water the super god water or ultra divine water in the dub is maybe the biggest cop-out in all of dragon ball we would go on to see multiple characters hidden potential be brought out in a myriad of ways after this arc but here it's a huge detriment to the story as it acts as a shortcut for goku to almost immediately spring back against king piccolo after a devastating loss and yeah the water putting him through body wrecking pain that could potentially kill him isn't nothing but it's not nearly narratively satisfying it wouldn't be quite as insulting either if they hadn't introduced the super god water and ark after the super holy water or sacred water in the dub which was in and of itself a faker of this exact plot device toriyama subverted the trope only to play it seriously the next chance he got yeah the chose seisui and the cho shinsui you can't make this [ __ ] up but like we said before when this arc premiered in the manga the huge shift in tone combined with an increase in stakes was massive and would influence dragon ball for years to come these moments of struggle loss and building despair rocket us towards an incredible final battle with goku showing up at the last minute to save the day a staple in dragon ball from that point forward and truly the fight is both effectively simple with its structure yet incredibly satisfying with its execution goku puts king piccolo on the back foot forcing him to leverage tin shinhan's life in order to crumble goku's resolve disabling limb after a limb until the poor boy only has one arm left but that proves enough and we're treated to one of the most iconic takedowns in dragon ball and impressively toriyama makes sure to take king piccolo's defeat as an opportunity to set up for the next arc spitting up an egg and sending it off into the distance entrusting his unborn clone son reincarnation with his ambitions and his revenge it definitely helps to make this saga and the next to feel like a set and leaves the viewer hyped for what's to come next side note did y'all know that toriyama essentially introduced yajirobe so mayumitanaka voice actress for krillin and luffy in one piece would have a character to play in the anime while krillin was dead goku even points out that they sound similar in the manga and the japanese audio and on that side note i love yajirobe in this arc from his introduction to his gags he feels right at home in the series and it's nice to see that he doesn't overstay his welcome honestly i think you're both totally valid and on point with your reading of the material we just happen to differ in how much certain aspects of the story affect our individual enjoyment i do have a question for the both of you though do you guys consider the meeting with kami and popo to be part of this arc or the next actually one of my favorite dragon ball youtubers mysterio fusion made a fantastic argument that belongs in this saga specifically because krillin dies at the beginning so it only makes sense that krillin's revival would finish it effectively bookending it this introduction comes with some fascinating lore and a great fulfilling training arc for goku that does manage to take away some of the sting of the super god water and though it definitely feels a tad convenient what with kami being able to create a new set of dragon balls to undo the slew of deaths that gave the story its weight this meeting with kami feels like a natural next step for goku in his journey and for the story as a whole i can't help but point out the hilarity that someone can ask remember that time goku met god and you can just respond which one it's also a little funny that battle of gods makes such a big deal out of godhood considering toriyama keeps whipping out a new deity every time the last one gets dunked on by goku it's like infinite regress only with gods well you know what they say it's turtle hermits all the way down seven you're really not just gonna use world martial arts tournament huh nope i've decided i've been too easy on you dub only watchers besides you already know how to say tenkaichi budokai even if you have been saying it the wrong way around could be worse he could have used number one under heaven martial arts gathering guys are being pretentious faithful pretentious aside the 22nd world martial arts tournament is technically the third tournament in the series after the 21st and fortune teller babas respectively toriyama had his work cut out for him to make this one stand out and he does so in an interesting way while goku maintains his role as the main character the story doesn't so much center around his development but rather around kame senin with this being the last fight we'd see the old turtle hermit take part in in the original manga anten shinhan student of an opposing school and a troubled struggling soul i love when toriyama explores the internal struggles of his characters between his sublime expression work his pension for building drama and dragon ball's fascinating world full of possibilities it's a shame we don't see as much moral complexity in the rest of his work as we do here because tin shinhan's journey through this arc is something special it also provides a fantastic avenue for roshi to finally pass the torch to his beloved students and emphasizes the strengths of his teachings by using ten chinhun and the crane school as a comparison much like with the previous tournament the qualifying rounds are a pretty light affair it serves to establish our character roster and gives us a peek at the advancements our established cast made in the time skip after the previous arc it also gives us a peek into the characters of ten shinhan and chaotsu who manipulate the numbers of the drawing process so the matches can play out how they see fit and then our three-eyed antagonist lets us all know just how vicious he can be dragon ball is known for some brutal moments but there's something so unsettling about ten shinhan breaking yamcha's leg largely because it's so unnecessary he didn't have to go that far yamcha had already all but lost the match but this wasn't about beating yamcha it was about sending a message the ten chin on is not to be taken lightly and he has every intent on proving his superiority even if it means ruining kamesenan's pupils it's hard to believe that after this devastating match we jump immediately into a gag match with roshi versus a reverse werewolf it admittedly feels a bit like filler but the punchline is pretty fantastic and it provides some levity leading into chiaotzu vs krillin which actually rides the line of being a gag match itself while the tricks and techniques chaos uses to put krillin on the ropes are both quirky and dangerous the climax of it is an honest laugh there aren't many matches like this in dragon ball and i think there's a lot to appreciate in terms of creativity on every level there's also a pom point but it's the next and last three matches that matter most starting off with roshi versus ten shinhan whereas in the last tournament roshi's primary goal was to keep goku humble and hungry here he's looking to change the heart of a talented young man traveling down a dark path he breaks out all the stops and even when ten shinhan threatens the lives of him and the audience with a surprise kamehameha he still pushes through he wants to drive home that the turtle school won't be so easily demolished before leaping off the stage knowing that it's not his place to defeat ten shinhan but before that fateful match can happen we finally get goku vs krillin sort of surprising that it took so long before we finally got a real fight between these two and damn is it fantastic highlighting all of toriyama's strengths and in the japanese version of the anime it's accompanied by mesase tenkaichi one of my favorite insert songs in the series even though we all know that goku was never going to lose this match it's still exciting satisfying and even touching to see these two rivals finally go toe to toe these are two friends having fun going all out putting all their hard work to the test and while their match is happening roshi confronts tin shinhan one last time he makes the point that ten just isn't the kind of killer he longs to be that deep down there is an ember of goodness burning bright enough to make him doubt the ambition of his master and his own misguided aspirations this moment marks the turning point for his character who was sworn to end goku for what he did to tao pai pai using mercenary tau to fuel the crane school's fervor is a fantastic pull on toriyama's part it ties goku directly into the conflict instead of it merely being a matter of opposing schools it's personal for tien who's idolized the assassin when they step into the ring he doesn't give goku an inch we actually talked in depth about this fight in our top 12 fights where it ranked number nine in the entire series it's a doozy and over the course of the match ten shinhan is forced to not only confront goku but his friend his master and himself it blindsided a lot of people when goku ultimately lost this match after his loss at the 21st tenkaichi budokai it seemed like a sure bet that goku would firmly grasp the w this time however goku is the first to touch outside the ring and tan chinhan goes home the victor and honestly this subversion is superb because the real victory here was pulling tenchinhon away from the dark side and it's the perfect setup for the 23rd tenkai jupiter kai where goku's third try would ultimately be the charm spoilers for dragon ball i don't know you guys always made it a running joke so i just wanted to do one funny enough it seems like we haven't had much bad to say about this ark so why is it so far down on the list i think it comes down to scale this is the shortest arc in all of dragon ball by chapters and the entirety of it plays out as a tournament meaning there's little variation in environment and the scope of the story is limited which isn't necessarily bad this arc is a very personal affair with amazing fights and effective melodrama but many of dragon ball's best sagas have higher stakes and a grinder scale which also aren't inherently positive qualities either mind you personally i'm a fan of shorter more focused stories with no wasted motions the buu saga and tournament of power are great examples of bloat with pacing issues of plenty but it's hard to ignore how toriyama would go on to write further compelling epic narratives with pathos and prophecy and more variation and complexity even in other tournaments yeah like the universe 6 tournament no no he obviously meant the other world tournament actually he probably means the 28th tenkaichi budokai wait the toy son tournament of champions that thing had a name that was its name six just in time for christmas this entry comes tied with a ribbon it's the most colorful saga in all of dragon ball and it's conquering our hearts but the 21st tenkaichi budokai before this toriyama would slowly put more emphasis on action and drama in the story luckily we'd first get what i consider one of the absolute best sagas of dragon ball this is actually my number 4 pick and honestly in my top 5 the margins are slim the red ribbon army as an antagonistic force is a very different animal from most of dragon ball though several other sagas would have fewer but incredibly powerful antagonists many of them inhuman this is a whole army of what are mostly just normal soldiers with differing levels of skill all in service of a napoleonic leader now of course this is toriyama so our quote normal human enemies unquote can still paralyze people with their minds or throw and ride pillars like their speedrunning breath of the wild the saga also clocks in at 59 chapters more than the last two before it combined which means it has plenty of opportunity to explore multiple locations encounter many different allies and enemies and build the story into an epic climax though uh epic isn't exactly the word i'd use because while toriyama gives us an amazingly fun and fresh story that never sits still for a moment the payoff is more on the emotional level in the fortune teller baba arc rather than a cathartic level via the red ribbon army not to say that there isn't plenty of fantastic action to go around between goku's perilous assaults on muscle tower the deadly pursuit of general blue and two incredible fights with taopaipai you'll never find yourself bored but in the case of commander red and staff officer black the actual climactic battle with the titular red ribbon isn't much to write home about even if the events leading into it are some of my favorite moments in dragon ball i'm sorry but the reveal commander red's ambitions being a product of his insecurities only for black to shoot him dead in response how is this not in our top three beyond the action there's also so many fantastic character elements throughout to call the red ribbon army a colorful cast would be well incredibly corny but also correct from suave to silly menacing to murderous ruthless to useless it's just so much fun to watch goku work his way through that rainbow and even make some friends along the way including everyone's favorite frankenstein's monster inspired row bro ater i'm actually surprised he's never mentioned in the android arc especially considering that android 16 is essentially 8 or 2.0 eight times it's also worth noting that this may be one of the funniest sagas in the entire franchise murasaki's the best and i will never get over the scene with the niohibo i'll be on my deathbed and my death rattle will be me giggling like an idiot also the dr slum crossover is hilarious adorable and an all-around treat ignoring what the anime does to general blue's character but we'd be remiss not to talk more in depth about mercenary tau as anyone who's seen our villains list will know we have a particular soft spot for this fashion forward assassin and no it's not a hole in our heads made by his tongue that introduction may be one of the most memorable in dragon ball he literally tongues a man to death and ladies he's single afterward he murders bora in cold blood curb stomps goku and peaces out with his balls like the world's deadliest veterinarian and this sets up for goku climbing kaden's tower and provides him with a new goal besides stopping the red ribbon army revive borah upa's father as we mentioned in the king piccolo review the sacred holy water is a fake out the actual effort to retrieve it was the real training conveying the moral there are no shortcuts to strength which the franchise would frequently and aggressively undermine as time went on here though it's an incredibly simple yet effective way for goku to make the necessary strides in order to win his critical rematch against tao the saga is also where we're introduced to the sen tsu magical beings that return you to full health these would become a staple of the series and luckily toriyama would do his best to use them as a way to keep the plot moving rather than waste resolve conflict because an instant undo button on major even mortal wounds could very easily have robbed the series of tension as opposed to the dragon balls which never mind goku would then assault the red ribbon base and win the day dismantling the army and ending their siege whereas some folks consider this to be the end of this saga some of us believe that it actually ends with the fortune teller babar where goku would find the final dragon ball necessary to wish back borah but also meet his grandfather one last time i love this finale while the lead up to goku meeting his grandfather again is mostly your average entertaining dragon ball comedy complete with some choice manga panels this reunion means a lot for goku and the audience we see pure joy love and nostalgia and it adds all that much more narrative way to goku using the dragon balls to wish back upa's father dragon ball doesn't have too many heartfelt moments like this but when they hit they demolish also the pilaf gang shows back up it's really funny but they don't add much other than to give goku another outfit and make american audiences super uncomfortable also a playable character in budokai tenkaichi iii the red ribbon army arc may not appeal to all dragon ball fans but for many this saga is the whole package action adventure comedy with a sincere emotional finale over 100 chapters in the making a hallmark for the franchise also husky oh haskey five here we are again with the top five for the last time oh are you getting emotional kaiser i can't help it we've been doing these for more years than there are dragon balls well if you choose you up any the top five starts off with a classic dragon ball arc you're right mark that does cheer me up the 21st tenkaichi budokai is the second arc of the series and the first tournament of the franchise hot off the mystical adventure of the pilaf saga goku decides to hunt down the old man who sexually harassed the 16 year old girl to train under him like his grandpa did before upon reaching kamehaus goku would proceed to meet his lifelong friend and temporary rival krillin and the two would begin training with one another this arc is also another one on the shorter side but it hits every story beat exceptionally well from the fun character-rich training segments with krillin and goku to the early matches full of comedy and creativity to the climactic showdown between master and pupil this arc is packed full of hearts and it would lay a lot of groundwork for the series moving forward the early chapters with goku and krillin are truly iconic their struggle with the turtle hermit's unconventional training methods combined with their conflicting personalities coupled with roshi's legends nature and lynch's sneezing gimmick all make for an amazingly fun read and the focus on goku's purity definitely sets him apart from other shonen protagonists of the time his love for martial arts in battle stem from his passion for self-improvement and that fire never dies and that hunger for personal improvement and also literally any food within a 10-foot radius is the major point of conflict in this story there is no traditional antagonist but rather goku's drive as a fighter and the possibility of that ambition being lost should he come out on top which is why roshi dons a silly wig and loses his glasses in order to keep goku from becoming number one under the heavens goku and krillin's aspirations for improving themselves are insanely infectious you want to root for them watch them continue to improve and break every record set before them so when roshi steps up to keep them in line there's a great conflict at play you want to see them come out on top but you also know that roshi has a point that if they get a taste for victory too soon it's possible their motivation may take a hit that they'll become complacent so despite how much the audience comes to love these two goofballs and wants to see them succeed you also want to see them fail it's something incredibly deep of course but for a story aimed at kids it more than does the job of providing an engaging conflict and interesting moral one that explores the characters of goku roshi and the concept of martial arts and self-improvement as a whole but screw the morals screw the story those aren't what people watch dragon ball for how were the fights considering this is still early on in dragon ball it's impressive just how much toriyama brings to the table here in terms of creativity and variety krillin vs bacterian is pure gross out humor opening the tournament up with one of the best meta jokes of the franchise with krillin's nose i won't lie watching all of z before og dragon ball made this joke hit even harder over a decade of watching them never address it only for it to happen here against the perfect opponent it's priceless after that our good lad yamcha begins his long illustrious career of jobbing in his fight with jackie chun it's pointedly funny that yamcha also recognizes that it's roshi at least establishing him as the smartest guy in the room even if he's not the strongest after this we get a match that could have only taken place in the 80s with nom vs ranfan followed up by goku vs giron a fun clever fight that does come with some cheap saves on goku's part but the real standout besides the climax is roshi versus krillin which besides including some fantastic action also has some of the most memorable gags from any of the tournaments goku vs namu is much more action-oriented showcasing some brutal blows and amazing tenacity from both fighters it also has a feel-good resolution with roshi providing namu all he needs to save his poor village but then finally it's the match we've all been waiting for goku vs jackie chun and it's a doozy the kamehameha junken drunken fist crazy fist the sleepy boy technique the thundershock surprise and even a giant monkey there's no end to how wild and crazy this fight gets with more twists and turns than we could possibly spend time talking about here and through it all the emotional core remains roshi's dedication to preserving goku's passion for the martial arts and though the final blow almost ends with a double ko jackie stands triumphant marking goku's first loss at the tenkai chibudokai but also his first true step towards greatness this is such an important moment for goku giving him both a taste of defeat and a taste of what lies ahead of him there's always a bigger fish and if we know anything about goku he's never met a fish he couldn't catch later arcs would present greater stakes including the very universe but sometimes there's no better emotional leverage than the heart and soul of a character you love watching roshi and goku battle isn't so satisfying because of the actual choreography and animation which are quite good for the time mind you but instead because of their investment and the meaning behind the fight traditional tournament arcs are always tricky while they're fantastic at setting up individual battles building an organic narrative can be a struggle luckily toriyama caught on quickly on how to balance action comedy and story in his tournaments giving us some of the best in anime and it all started here you know i'm wanting to bet that toriyama had no idea the kind of conversations he was going to start between fans with roshi blowing up the moon considering how utterly obsessed many of them would become with power levels and feats yeah don't get me started on this phantom's feet fetish i don't like that four you do know that this is the fourth time seth has been in fourth place on december right number four in our top 24 villains number four in our top 12 fights number four in our top 12 transformations now this we swear this is a coincidence also really funny we assume the placement of cell is going to be a controversial one polarizing even hell for me it's my number one pick this talk is full of amazing battles unforgettable drama and a climax that puts not only other arcs but other whole anime to shame for me it's not in my top five not that i dislike it it just has some fundamental issues that keep it from being my favorite i had it as my number four so frankly this is perfect this saga begins with the return of frieza no not that one or that one as a perfect way to start off a saga literally all about androids and cyborgs our frosty fiend arrives on earth complete with cybernetic replacements and a big horny daddy but before he can wreak havoc a young man equipped with a sword and super saiyan shows up to bisect him and sends his papa to hell in kind also what is it with trunks cutting people in half what a way to introduce a character frieza was far and away the biggest bad the series had ever seen so to see him job this thoroughly and in such an incredibly awesome manner its hype is all hell number nine on our most iconic moments in dragon ball check it out and afterwards we get to meet goku again and learn that this stranger is actually vegeta and bulma's son from the future and that the apocalypse by way of skynet is coming and atop all that goku dies of a heart virus before he can help try to stop it it's a pretty insane beginning to the saga and this sets up for mysteries conflicts death and some of the series most harrowing moments we'd meet android cyborgs jinzo ningen and see our little crybaby gohan grow into his own as the conflicts of his father's past come back to haunt them all in terms of our main antagonists the androids and cell are undeniably iconic their designs and personalities are full of toriyama's charm and aesthetic the android's devil may care attitudes are a stark contrast to cell's single-minded devotion to his perfection but their menace is felt all the same especially when these terror teens wreck the entire dragon team although i'd absolutely love to see the timeline where toriyama's editors didn't make him change androids 19 and 20 from being the main villains where would he have even gone if that were the case would android 20 be able to transform as well would we still have gotten cell speaking of timelines toriyama definitely seemed to have taken some inspiration from the terminator franchise this saga plays a lot with time travel adding a neat layer of complexity and mystery to the plot trunks coming back to the past sends a ripple effect that creates new problems and even paves the way for cell's perfection unfortunately toriyama does occasionally find himself struggling a bit with the trickiness of time travel yeah and the story isn't helped by the insane amount of editorial interference or maybe it was helped who's to say but the constant rewrites and redesigns definitely made this journey feel a lot rockier and haphazard in several places don't get me started on the absurdity of dr ghetto making android 17 and 18 the power source necessary for cell's perfection or goku's absolute [ __ ] explanation of why they don't just find dr ghetto and stop him from making the androids if i were bulma i'd have gone rogue and had shenron teleport jero into the sun but even with those narrative hiccups there are just so many moments here that have stuck with me and many other fans over the years the android's first fight against our heroes leading to vegeta's iconic arm break kami and piccolo reuniting and finally bringing an end to their conflict sells wicked and horrifying introduction in nikki town piccolo versus 17 tien's shin ki koho cell becoming perfect one of the coolest fights in the series with goku vs cell goku sacrifice and gohan's transformation oh as i said before one of the best climaxes in anime and those are just the bigger moments this saga is long and winding with plenty of mysteries and fascinating reveals and it feels like the entire cast gets to be directly involved it's admittedly a little frustrating that the main crux of the saga takes so long to get moving as we're introduced to antagonist after antagonist until we arrive at cell who himself still goes through several radical transformations that's truly a shame too because while perfect cell's design is definitely memorable and his personality is serviceable his first form is the most unique all around he's a movie monster stalking humans and devouring them for sustenance and it's a shame that we lose many of those features after he absorbs android 17. of course a big old insect man might not have played so well with audiences especially leading into the climax so we can at least understand that the decision to make him more traditionally attractive might very well have been the right one but regardless of cell's design he facilitates some amazing growth for several characters we see goku grow as a father and as a protector of the earth we see vegeta grow as he struggles with being an ex-villain who now has something to protect on earth and piccolo comes to terms with his past by fusing with kami and trunks learns that he's a giant [ __ ] up with the best of intentions but ultimately it's gohan that's put center stage and watching him come into his own still sends chills down my spine to this day not to continue being the wet blanket said the soggy duvet but some of the issues we see him struggling with here seem a little manufactured and while i'm certainly a fan of showing overtelling it would have been nice to have gotten some time with gohan to explore these particular struggles it's a problem that's worse in the manga where a lot of time spent with gohan and goku training is missing meaning that gohan's actual involvement with this arc is incredibly minimal to the point where his involvement in the cell games is a big surprise to everyone and i'd argue not a good surprise not to say that the moment where he transforms isn't absolutely epic or that his defeat of cell isn't absolutely the climax you've made it out to be but the build-up feels inadequate with more time in the saga spent on characters like vegeta trunks and piccolo rather than on the one who matters most in this finale but like we said with the buu saga sure you can put these stories under a microscope and deconstruct them to a fine point on a narrative level but damning damn it watching 16 plead his case with gohan only to be snuffed out leaving gohan to finally break through that last wall in one of the most gorgeously framed transformations in the series scored to perfection by unme no he and the anime it doesn't matter if the buildup was lacking the moment is a triumph the culmination of gohan's character over four years in the making and the father-son kamehameha will be etched into my brain until i die the last desperate beam struggle dwarfing any other in the series it's just so [ __ ] cool no other finish in dragon ball hits like this narrative issues be damned the finale of this arc cemented gohan as a fan favorite for a lot of people which as we mentioned would be a point of contention in later material but [ __ ] that here in this moment in this arc it's awesome in a lot of ways the android saga feels like a finale which is only bolstered by the fact that after this we get the longest time skip in the manga up until that point at seven years in all honesty i can see why people believe that this was where toriyama wanted to end it with an epilogue this would have been a bittersweet but genuinely fulfilling conclusion yeah but ending up the soul sucker i mean that's that'd be uh a terrible idea is uh is kaiser okay we regret nothing mark three the 23rd tenkaichi budokai is the final arc of og dragon balls anime a delineation not made in the manga there are plenty of reasons turn around for toei to separate the anime ranging from the change in overall direction of the story to toei wanting to market it as a new show with all the marketing advantages that would provide them and as we'd see this arc does in many ways provide a thrilling finale to this stage of goku's life hot off a three-year time skip we're quickly reintroduced to our lovable cast many of them sporting some fresh new designs and though a taller more adult krillin is definitely a surprise nothing quite beats seeing goku now fully grown and while for american audiences who started with z this would seem to be a return to form for japanese audiences this must have been wild over 165 chapters and three whole years of kid goku and now he's all growed up it's a pretty monumental even daring decision on the part of toriyama as it fundamentally affected goku's iconic design then again i'm a naruto fan so it's not like i haven't had the chance to experience something similar in real time by the way if you want to you can check out my naruto review series over on my channel totally not mark luckily his design still cuts that distinct silhouette and while he is aged up here we see him back in that classic ghee and more importantly his crucial innocent personality is intact though he is markedly more mature in many ways honestly this may be my favorite version of goku it's a perfect combination of playful and experienced after his training with god he seemingly achieved a sense of serenity a calm confidence that plays well into his cheerful nature and each solution he pulls out over the course of the tournament is just so satisfying because we've seen him grow into the fighter he is today though i'll never forget toriyama for getting rid of goku's tail for good in this arc but the bigger reveal of this saga is a full-grown piccolo jr while we got small adorable peaks at him in the ark prior here he's fully matured out for revenge for what goku did to his father the most noticeable change in his design is that he's significantly younger looking than king piccolo was thinner and more angular and sports a brand new now iconic outfit we also find over the course of the tournament that he's more complex than his father ever was speaking of the tournament this is in our opinion the best toriyama ever wrote though we don't begrudge his more gag-oriented matches from previous tournaments here it feels like there's very little fat each match contributes to the greater story and it all starts with the first match we're introduced to cyborg tower in the preliminaries where he conveniently removes chiltsu from the plot and while it's certainly a surprise to see him back and deadlier than ever his inclusion in the tournament is solely to provide 10 shinhan closure after the 20-second ten gaichi burokai which doesn't make this match bad far from it it's just maybe the weakest of the matches by virtue of but not contributing to the overall story of this arc but immediately after this we find goku vs name withheld i mean chichi honestly it's hard to say whether or not toriyama played the long game with this one or if he just so happened to make the perfect pull at the perfect time i'm not sure which would be more impressive honestly because having a character that we haven't seen for three years suddenly reappear organically and with a monumental twist of the plot either way you have to give this man kudos especially with the subtle hints we're given to let us know that it's her from her accent to her hair to the promise she mentions to goku and the reveal of goku mistaking marriage for food pique goku it's a fun monumental match that would forever change our protagonist's life and the very course of the series as a whole but screw romance because the next match is one of my favorites and it's arguably krillin's best fight in the franchise we know from the outset that krillin isn't going to win this match hell he knows it as such this fight isn't really about whether or not krillin can win but whether or not he can prove himself as a worthy opponent not just to piccolo but to the audience krillin's always played second fiddle to goku and despite his impressive outings before he's struggled a lot so we're essentially prepared here for a jobbing but this plays out as anything but with krillin managing to straight up shock piccolo with his strength tenacity and strategy though our brave bald boy takes the l he proves to piccolo that this fight won't be as easy as he thinks this acknowledgement on piccolo's part is also an important indicator that he is not the same character as his father he takes this revelation in stride and even shows a budding but grudging respect which all on its own makes him a more compelling character but no time to talk about that because next is yamcha versus shen oh yamcha you poor poor bastard first chance in the series of getting past the quarterfinals and toriyama throws you up against god and while yamcha whips out a brilliant new technique with an amazing direct hit proving he's still definitely an outstanding fighter he is still but a stepping stone for kami to get to piccolo but this reveal is also fascinating and a great wrinkle to the ark god refuses to stay passive here like he did with king piccolo and he's even hijacked a person's body just to hide who he is to get closer to junior before those two can meet in the ring we first need the biggest rematch in this series so far with tian shinhan vs goku now this is a fantastic fight but its main purpose here to give us an idea of just how far goku has come between king piccolo and now oh and also reintroduce the weighted clothing tien is outclassed here and when he busts out the multi-form technique goku just shows how wide their gap has become by instantly recognizing its weakness and defeating him effortlessly leading to god meeting his nephew in the ring and as it turns out god's no slouch he does everything he can to put down his evil half even including the mafaba technique which our piccolo learned how to reverse putting god in a bottle and swallowing him down keeping him safe in his tum-tum leaving only goku vs piccolo junior and this match well it's our number two fight in all of dragon ball it's our number two fight in all of dragon ball if you want to see a real breakdown of this fight as well as many others that we've probably talked about previously check out our db sember list from 2018. an interesting aspect about this fight is how many of its biggest beats would return in the next arc but to different effect goku and piccolo's beam struggle piccolo growing giant goku's legs being disabled which isn't to take away from either fight the parallels are mostly fascinating make no mistake this fight is very much its own beast it's a beautiful remarkable fight as creative as it is brutal and the win on goku's part is genuinely one of the most harrowing desperate victories in all of dragon ball but it's a victory all the same and this finally sees goku as the champion it's the journey he's been on since he began training with roshi and through it all his goal has been clear improve for the sake of self-improvement not money not glory not pride but just to be better and protect those around him i also love how goku just gives piccolo a senzu bean hoping that a bit of kindness and promise of a better fight would help him come around and how he tells kami no thanks god i don't want your job it's worth noting that this saga might have made our number two or even number one if it had been both grander and scale and had it relied on the tournament formula though it is arguably the best tournament in dragon ball it's also toriyama's third go at it and while it nails almost every single note it's a song we've heard before and it's one with built-in narrative limitations that keep us locked into a very narrowly focused story but in that same vein toriyama works wonders within these limitations and the story is one of the best paced and executed in dragon ball we got really granular in this review partially because we wanted to emphasize just how little time is wasted in every fight how incredible each encounter is and just how phenomenal toriyama nails this tournament the last two tenkaichi budokai were fantastic in their own rights but in many ways they were all leading up to this where goku could show the fruits of his labor beat the bad guy save the world get the girl and soar off into the sunset this genuinely feels like the end of an era hell the manga frames this finale is so monumental toriyama made sure to add a little roshi at the bottom of the page to inform us that don't worry there's still more dragon ball to come it's just so emotionally satisfying on every single level that if it really had ended here it would have felt right also makafuji adventure is the best dragon ball opening i will not be taking any questions thank you two you know some people might argue that going into space is jumping the shark could be worse toriyama could result in time travel or open up a multiverse what if they made an evil goku or if they kept revealing new gods to replace the old ones or started giving characters transformations instead of actual character growth so this saga is a wild ride y'all hot off the heels of the saiyan saga where the entire series was frankly flipped on its side half the cast is [ __ ] dead or in a hospital and with god pulling a nietzsche there are no dragon balls to bring him back so bulma krillin and gohan have to star trek dynamic piccolo's newly revealed home world and their only hope but when they arrive they'll find more than peaceful namekians they'll find a terror beyond hell the moment our intrepid earthlings arrive on namek everything that could go wrong essentially does followed not only by vegeta but a far more imposing threat in the sadistic frieza these opening chapters are a scramble for everyone involved and before you know it there are more moving parts than dragon ball had ever had to deal with before yet none of it feels difficult to keep track of and instead it just builds a sense of anxiety and excitement as characters change locations come into conflict steal dragon balls and either bluff their way out of confrontations or blast their way out of them one of the most unique aspects of this arc is how little goku factors into its first half while dragon ball would be no stranger to sidelining goku until he was absolutely necessary he'd be largely out of play for the first 36 chapters of this 88 chapter saga giving krillin gohan and vegeta a lot of focus early on this makes for a fascinating dynamic because without goku there several of these characters would have to play the world's most dangerous game of cat and mouse mixed with don't wake daddy and in this case daddy b frieza and frieza as a villain is one of the best toriyamas ever written if not the best and his introduction is top [ __ ] notch this interrogation and subsequent slaughter of the namekian village communicates everything you need to know about him he radiates sadism underlining his aggressively condescending politeness to great effect you come to positively despise this [ __ ] but you also can't look away when he's at his absolute worst like kristoff waltz inglorious bastards oh that's a bingo the subservience of dorian zarbon does a lot to communicate his strength as does the way that every character familiar with frieza speaks about him he is not a king to be served he is a god to be feared this arc also ties frieza directly to goku and the rest of the saiyan's history he wasn't only their absolute ruler he was the one who eliminated their planet leaving only a handful of them alive his genocide of goku and vegeta's race ties him directly to their fates and though this is most definitely a retcon on toriyama's part it does a lot to elevate the narrative of this conflict while also making it personal and though goku may not value his saiyan heritage he will inherit the responsibility of avenging all of that death and destruction that frieza rods frieza isn't the only villain of the arc that stands out though zarbon and dedoria proved to be formidable minions and the ginyu force helped shake the arc up in an amazing way their bombastic personalities are combined with radical violence all the while homaging super sentai of the time they all provide interesting techniques and spectacular battles and put our heroes on the brink of death more than once but above all else the minions provide conflict and development for one particular character vegeta to say that vegeta is the star of the first half of the ark is an understatement i honestly believe it's the best he'd ever been written in the entire original manga although krillin gohan and to a lesser extent bulma are our protagonists in this first half it's veggie who really gets to shine as he takes both an active and reactive role throughout thanks to frieza's inability to read power levels and his scouters being destroyed vegeta is able to sneak around and operate in the shadows all the while slaughtering the guilty and innocent alike in order to collect the dragon balls and though he's still undeniably a villain here his contrast and conflict with frieza make him seem almost like an anti-hero in comparison almost this was far from toriyama's first time pinning a previous arc's big bad up against its current but unlike with piccolo and tan shinhan vegeta is still rotten to the core meaning every action he takes against frieza is also against our heroes and when krillin and gohan are put in between the rock and a hard place of having to choose vegeta over frieza they have every reason to feel conflicted of course not long before goku arrives vegeta's part in the story essentially mimics piccolo's he must join forces with earth's heroes in order to stop frieza from attaining victory but where piccolo would make an heroic sacrifice vegeta would get everything he had coming to him that all you got but you have to give it to toriyama even though he'd shown vegeta to be an unrepentant murderer you still feel the slightest bit of sympathy as frieza brutally dismantles his proud confidence with a pervasively vicious glee speaking of piccolo toriyama cleverly brings him back to life in order to set up a brilliant gambit with him alive kami and popo are able to bring the earth dragon balls together in order to ultimately save the day we also get to see piccolo return to his homeworld discover a prototype of what would become fusion later down the road and help keep everyone alive long enough for goku to do the thing regarding goku he's well a bit of a tough topic much of the major conflict onnamic happens with him either on his way to the planet itself or out of commission in the healing tank he doesn't really feel like a vital part of the narrative for a majority of the saga once he arrives he provides us with some impressive examples of just how much he's grown and while we're absolutely thrilled to see him here to save the day he still feels a little out of place at first but as vegeta lay dying we see him bestow the burden of defeating frieza upon goku this elite shattered and fading must entrust this lower class warrior to finish what he could not and goku solemnly accepts he may not value his own saiyan heritage but he recognizes both vegeta as a warrior and frieza as a tyrant and with all the pain and suffering he's already caused his friends and family he's made it his personal mission to put frieza down after getting to know vegeta over the course of the last two sagas and knowing what this means to him this scene hits hard what follows next is the longest fight in the franchise both famously and infamously there's a desperation that slowly mounts as goku realizes just how utterly outmatched he truly is his strongest attack hits frieza head on and it does little but singe his hand so he's forced to use the spirit bomb and unlike the one on earth this sucker's massive and while it doesn't quite get the job done the site of such a huge version of the attack has stuck with audiences for years it's really freaking cool and it all leads up to one of the most spectacular moments in dragon ball hey guys look it's my jutsu impression goku turning super saiyan we've mentioned it in other countdowns but it bears repeating this changed dragon ball this scene of anger desperation and horror created something new dazzling and game-changing that would inspire countless other properties for decades to follow super saiyan sun goku is iconic from the build-up to the climax to goku's destruction of frieza we see a legend fulfilled it feels as if goku's whole life has led up to this one points following this transformation we get what feels like an exercise in catharsis as frieza is demoted and frieza's desperate gamble of blowing up the planet leading to a harrowing countdown to destruction makes for a fantastic set piece at the end though it's frieza's hubris that seals his defeat and we watch as goku is possibly lost along with the vanishing world but but yeah but the moment frieza enters the fray the pacing of the story slows to an absolute crawl and it's only made worse in the anime every joke every meme you've heard about dragon ball's bad pacing that's exemplified here goku's fight with frieza does have some impeccably well crafted shots though with stellar composition and there's still plenty of creativity throughout also while goku embracing his saiyan heritage is conceptually interesting he'd already established that he considered himself an earthling before anything else and his connection to this extinct race are tenuous at best so to see him say i am the super saiyan son goku rings the slightest bit hollow furthermore this arc introduces an issue that would plague dragon ball for years to come power creep power levels in dragon ball have always been a source of consternation while their introduction served the plot of the saiyan saga to help communicate the divide and strength between characters these numbers would balloon to proportions that would soon hurt the narrative far more than help it and some characters are used to questionable effect bulma does not need to be in this story at all toriyama wanted to call back to the classic hunt for the dragon balls by including krillin and gohan goku's son but this story ultimately ended up sidelining her in a really bad way funny enough i think this is one of the reasons a lot of og dub fans didn't like her they were introduced to her at her worst luckily the following sagas utilized her much more effectively and hey it's after she has a kid so it's kind of like the inverse of adele chichi and android 18. and frieza's use of transformations here is the worst iteration of this trope it's too convenient and thus makes prior conflicts feel less meaningful but the saga managed to make it this high on the list how because despite its shortcomings this arc manages to accomplish some amazing feats taking us to another world introducing us to one of the most marvelous villains in the franchise utilizing vegeta to perfection with a stellar exciting first half and giving us an amazing transformation that goku has put through hell to unlock in its second all facilitating one of the most climactic showdowns in anime history on a dying planet though it makes its fair share of mistakes along the way this arc attempts to do a lot and there's something to be said about a story and a storyteller that tries something new and epic we can accept that it's got its flaws but we all remember being glued to our seats and our manga volumes thrilled at what was coming next it honestly can't be emphasized enough just how grandiose this part of the story feels and the gravitas that comes with it we do criticize the ballooning power levels but it still feels insane when frieza reveals where his base form sits and those transformations continue to ratchet up the fear and despair for our characters this saga is ambitious climactic and a total thrill ride and has stuck with fans for years after i'll also highly recommend that if you're looking to re-watch this arc try out kai especially if you're going to watch it in english it cuts down a lot of the pacing issues with the original anime while also making some fixes from the manga also christopher ayers as frieza is untouchable in english providing a performance that is a standout of the franchise love and laughter always man love and laughter always love and laughter always [Music] number one why does this feel so hard because you love dragon ball and you love talking about dragon ball yeah i just can't believe this is the last one the last entry of the last d december well then i guess we better give it our all huh right the saiyan saga is in our opinion the best representation of everything that dragon ball is in our opening arc we're introduced to a revelation that fundamentally changes the series with the reveal that our main character goku is actually part of an alien race this revelation would bring great violence despair but also growth as goku's unknown lineage suddenly catches up to him and his home and wreaks havoc in its wake we've talked about this in the past but raddus's reveal of goku's alien origin is such a monumental moment rightfully it eclipses the reveal that they're related which for goku obviously wouldn't really mean anything he's grown up on earth and his real family doesn't include raditz though raditz doesn't last long goku loses his life and finds himself making his way to another new master in the afterlife who would train him to face an even bigger looming threat goku and piccolo vs raditz is a great fight to start off this saga with though it might not rank high for many fans in terms of its overall quality watching these two rivals forced to struggle against a frightening new opponent is exciting and you can feel the desperation as they throw together a plan one that ultimately ends in goku's death that's right our main character has died in a series where death means nothing true but it's still a beautifully done if not immensely brutal moment and his death even manages to move the plot forward with the introduction of king kai goku has had many masters kamesenin karin popo and kami whis and among them for me king kai ranks pretty high just below roshi by virtue of him being so unconventional colorful and playing such a huge role in the material to come and his training conditions for goku are also a lot of fun and the mere concept of death being a pathway or in this case snakeway to self-improvement is a neat spiritually fascinating concept perfect for a story inspired by journey to the west during all that though piccolo takes gohan under his tutelage after seeing the boy explode with the power that dwarfs both him and his rival piccolo is hell-bent on molding goku's wimpy son into a fighter capable of protecting the earth and part of that process involves survival training aka leaving a four-year-old in the wilderness to fend for himself and what follows is actually exceptionally heartwarming as we see piccolo slowly come around on this poor vulnerable kid it's effective storytelling on toriyama's part and a level of emotional interaction and growth he rarely explores during all of this our gang heads up to kami's lookout to train and while the manga doesn't show us any of it the anime goes a long way to help expand on their development unfortunately no amount of training could prepare them for the saiyans who upon their first appearance decimate an entire city with a single casual attack it's an intense moment of destruction that dwarfs any we've seen before and effectively shows us just how strong these two enemies really are especially when you consider the one who delivers the attack is napa who answers to his diminutive domineering partner vegeta it's a fantastic introduction once our dragon team arrives on the battlefield they have very little time to reminisce before the fight gets underway and between the sci-fi men and napa the brutality here is a grisly sight though we're introduced to amazing new techniques and team-ups fighter after fighter is felt tragedy topping tragedy all culminating in piccolo the reincarnated demon king sacrificing his life for a child not even his own it's a powerful scene and it's the perfect climax for piccolo's growth up until this point luckily before gohan and krillin can meet the same fate goku arrives now equipped with the kaioken his swift defeat of napa is as sweet as candy after his onslaught but vegeta's betrayal is the real capper we see here that our final opponent isn't just powerful he's heartless and what comes next may be the greatest fight in all of dragon ball starting off with the most iconic face down in the franchise goku has to use every bit of his new training just to keep pace with vegeta leading up to an insane insane beam struggle and after vegeta loses he makes a fake moon to transform into the mighty osuru and that's where this fight gets even more insane piccolo's showing as a kaiju in the previous saga felt novel but here it's a force of terror and destruction fast enough to keep up with goku and strong enough to crush him it's only with the help of krillin gohan and yajirobe that they're able to put an end to this monkey madness this isn't just goku vs vegeta anymore it's every remaining earthling fighter versus vegeta every single one of them is a necessary player here which is pretty damn cool watching them all band together against this threat instead of the classic 1v1 showdown is a treat and something we always appreciate from dragon ball luckily for our heroes vegeta's got his sights set solely on gohan so krillin has the opportunity to take goku's unused spirit bomb to try and seal the deal and though he misses thanks yajirobe gowan's finally able to land a vital shot and rebounds the ball at the last moment finally finishing off vegeta or at least you'd think surprise [ __ ] because even that's not enough and the tiny terror bloodied and bruised continues his rampage before gohan does some totally contrived [ __ ] by growing back his tail becoming an osuru from vegeta's fake moon and then crushing the saiyan beneath him but it's super entertaining and dramatically ironic contrived [ __ ] and though krillin tries to rightfully end vegeta's life a selfish goku begs for his friend to spare this broken mass murder in hopes of one day being able to fight him again after this fight they're all barely holding on by a thread this battle has left them all utterly wasted it's an amazingly satisfying yet poignantly bittersweet victory hard fought with several casualties and the victors and tatters they're wrecked but they [ __ ] won and the anime goes the extra mile in the recovery of the fallen's bodies it's an intensely somber scene complete with an emotionally ruined bulma who can barely hold it together but in the darkness lies a glint of hope and a new goal set before them next stop namek it's the perfect ending to this saga providing us with a heartbreaking but ultimately hopeful denim all and leads us right into the next story this kind of connective tissue between arcs is exactly what we felt like was missing from the likes of dragon ball super one of the most interesting narrative through lines in this saga is goku's heritage his connection to the saiyan race doesn't affect him on an emotional level he rejects that outright but it's what brings this conflict to earth in the first place and is a huge point of contention for vegeta who sees himself as an elite well goku is lower class this dynamic works incredibly well because it not only further highlights goku as the underdog but also underscores his loyalty he's an earthling god damn it even if the franchise would slowly but surely associate his most endearing characteristics with his saiyan biology yes i'm salty about that the fight against the cybermen and napa are so full of amazing sacrifices and losses we've never seen death on this scale before and it turns the despair up to 11 as the strongest among them can barely scratch napa who's the second in command but it similarly gives our heroes a moment to show just how far they've come even if the fruits of their labor can't stack up against the saiyan brute it also offers us the perfect big damn hero moment for goku and sets up the premise for the next saga but the real highlight here is the non-stop brawl against vegeta while some other fights in dragon ball would feel bloated and overly long this fight actually feels perfectly paced there's never a dull moment as things escalate via the kaioken the uzaru the spirit bomb freaking yajirobe and his sword it's also wonderful to watch piccolo and gohan develop these two are the emotional core of most of this saga they both provide depth and growth as they influence one another gohan becoming a stronger more confident fighter while piccolo becomes a more empathetic caring person his death is maybe one of the most effective in the franchise and is done impeccably kudos to the anime for the scene i mean it's brilliant this saga in a lot of ways feels like the perfect version of this particular formula toriyama had begun with the king piccolo saga no other arc does it quite this well this consistently it checks every box this is dragon ball at its peak [Music] you all right buddy yeah yeah i'm good hey uh i just wanted to say thanks for bringing me on for this one you guys dragon ball has been close to my heart for a long time and honestly you guys helped to keep that love alive long into my adulthood i've always enjoyed hearing your takes whether it be here or in your abridged series and so i guess what i'm trying to say is it was honestly a blast to get to talk about what i love here with both of you mark my man i love your reviews you always have such a critical yet heartfelt perspective on everything you talk about and you've always managed to give me something to consider and reflect on i sincerely look up to you and your team thank you so much for joining us this year anytime scott dbcember has always been a way for us to show dragon ball our love outside of dbza a way we could take deep dives and explore what makes it tick and most of all what made us love it in the first place we hope more than anything whether you disagree with our placements here or any other year that you feel that love and maybe even found some of your own reflections on the franchise thank you to everyone at home for being a part of db sember these last eight years dragon ball literally changed our lives so getting to spend time nerding out about it with the people i care about with an audience who cares to hear it it's been so awesome you've all been awesome so please from us here at tfs all of us have a merry christmas a happy holidays and a happy new year and thank you one and all for joining us for our last the december

Channel: TeamFourStar

Views: 650,743

Keywords: Dragon ball, dragon ball z, teamfourstar, tfs, dragon ball sagas, top 12 dragon ball sagas, dbcember, dragon ball top 12, teamfourstar dbcember, teamfourstar dragon ball, teamfourstar dragon ball z, dragon ball saga, teamfourstar dbz, tfs dbz, top 12, top 12 dragon ball

Id: PbWEEBHE99g

Length: 92min 6sec (5526 seconds)

Published: Fri Dec 31 2021