starting and saving your country it says we're live we're live can anybody hear us can anybody hear Matt's we are live there we go hallelujah oh um hello everybody it is April 14th 2000 uh that's meeting and we are all here to commemorate the 107 that anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic it is Kent why don't you let us know the exact time it is right now East Coast time oh I'm not even on the East Coast right now so I'm in New York time zones so that's 1034 p.m. right now which equates to 11:36 p.m. April 14th nineteen year old I'm Zelda data Clara in the 10:30 for excellence yeah so we're gonna we're gonna forego the introduction here and we're going to jump right into the collision it is it's way too close to that time to talk about anything else hopefully in the downside after the collision we'll be able to introduce who is here discuss a little bit of some of the background information as well as your time difference looking forward to going into that a little bit okay so 11:36 I'm assuming it's probably 1137 by now in tight to the up time let's just set the scene 11:37 p.m. April 14 1912 just before midnight it is freezing cold out it is very very cold by the way Kyle I wanted to let you know when you can see your screen yeah okay we will address that after the collision as well second dog first officer William Murdoch is on watch on the bridge by his side is sixth officer James Moody with quartermaster Robert Hitchens at the helm Frederick fleet and Reginald layer in the crow's nest as I said it is freezing cold out it is approximately 30 32 degrees Fahrenheit out rounds euro degrees Celsius there's a what there's a moon why is there a moon because for change to the settings for the society okay there is the moon out yes we're following an alternative history timeline here that's a surprise that we've been looking forward to announcing about the game at full all surprise their history timeline no I'm obviously joking here by the way I want to let you know there's apparently a really really really bad echo and it's on Kyle's and boy Jays animations sells us the moon is inaccurate yes that's a society writer too okay did we get closer to the moon so right now it's 11:30 9:00 p.m. ships time and this is about the point where they spotting the iceberg they were sounding a warning and first officer Murdoch on the bridge was deciding how to take evasive action and just now we've gone 1140 now Ken so yeah since I want to talk to you as the official historian we have here on the stream let me introduce you real quick and then I will then I'll ask you the question here on the stream here we have obviously myself Tom Linsky we have Matthew Winkler we have Caio Hudak and we also have Jay Kent Layton co-author of many renowned historical books including on a sea of glass which I have right here by my side which is essentially one of the Bible's that you can refer to for Titanic history so Kent we've been exploring a theory a lot lately that Murdoch spotted the iceberg before fleets the evidence for this being that Murdoch would have had a better vantage point from the bridge he was lower and therefore he would have seen a better silhouette against the Stars as opposed to fleet who was higher up and would have been looking down on the iceberg and down on the water in addition to that he testified that when he was on the phone with sixth officer moody the ship was already turning this could also account for the calm response that was famously given by sixth officer moody who simply says thank you asking what have you seen an iceberg right ahead he says thank you to me that sounds very much like thank you we already know we are already handling it Kent what are you as actually it's a really good bit of input they're typically history books say it was 37 seconds from the sighting until the collision but that really is an assumption that was based on some turning circles made with the Olympic late in Iran and it seems very likely that this this working theory that Murdoch probably saw the Berg at or perhaps even before the same time as the lookouts is probably correct like you say being lowered down he had a better vantage point more the stars might have been removed from the horizon by the shape of the bird and it took him some time to decide what to do because if you start turning a ship that big and you don't know exactly which way you should be going you can actually make the situation worse so he would have taken a little bit of time and he probably would have used the Pelorus that was on the starboard bridge wing to try and figure out whether the gap was closing or opening so whether the ship was already gonna clear it or if he had to make an evasive turn which way he had to go clearly fleet and lead did not know this as he was doing this and of course he didn't survive and even did Moody and Hitchens was in the wheelhouse and so he might not have been able to see what was going on outside so it's a working theory but it does make a lot of sense yeah it's definitely a working theory there's a lot that's the only discussed on it but I I have adopted it I believe it is definitely true it makes the most sense I also think it's pretty neat that I always loved when we could find not necessarily us I'm not taking credit for it here not as a team but I always love it when historians find something new that's actually new and real and interesting and not just some sensational eyes thing it's like oh I found something new but we've either known this already or you made it up but this is a genuine this is a genuine new theory it might not even be that new but I am I find it quite exciting we've talked about it in in some of our older videos but in terms of the overall history of Titanic Studies 107 years now this is this is pretty new so uh before we get overwhelmed and I know we're gonna get overwhelmed being an anniversary we got some super chats to read hoop strikes again I love this project John Mitchell really happy that I made it to the stream on time keep it up you guys buddy Fox didn't say anything he just gave something and when fallow mentions that there's another channel talking about a theory that Keele failed first I don't think we should go into that that's that's a holding I think that's about yeah that's a bridge too far yeah yeah yeah Timmy says heck and darn we'd struck a burr or your pal Angie didn't say anything just gave a dollar and so has LJN 369 allen sally kane hope i'm pronouncing that right says we're cutting it close but glad everything up is up and running now me too Alan me too we had a few issues earlier and then we had technical difficulties now but you guys you guys have been such a great audience you've been following us for years you know that's the tradition with these live streams and then of course Jay a Bristol fan favourite local hero on these streams has given $100 good evening Tom glad to make it to another stream how could there have been so much uncertainty as to whether the Titanic broken - I understand that no one could see in the dark but wouldn't they have heard the metal of the ship tearing apart Austin bounce house rentals been waiting for this alright we got some more coming in I don't want to monopolize time but I think the approach to this stream and we're going to be doing is gonna be a slightly different approach from the previous years I always want to try to do something unique instead of going through the events minutely as we've done in the past I think we should take broad strokes here talk about the big picture of what's going on and have a back of course like roundtable discussion about what are your thoughts on this what could have been happening especially since we've got Ken's here and I've bounced a lot of things with Kent back and forth over coming up with the sinking timeline and the storyline of the game so it's invaluable to have you here and I think we should definitely take advantage of that and I know the 1200 people listening would certainly agree with that yes it's an honor it's an honor and a privilege to be here I really appreciate the invitation Thank You Kent Kyle but they can drink pile in the chat he tried to evade the echoes now I'm hearing that there's a lot of that goes and apparently all right Kyle I'm sorry I think you're gonna have to stay silent on this one you'll be the you'll be the man behind the scenes will be our story when I just want to say I actually actually can't a musical about the there's something that I couldn't possibly show for anybody sticking around something new okay all right um yeah I'm gonna have to keep the talking to a minimum the chat exploded into echo comments okay so everything's okay hopefully when the rest of us um alright so anyway um with dress j a bristol x' comments and you know what i think we should take that when we start discussing the break-up there's so much to talk about when it comes to the break-up so the tight app has hit the iceberg it's it's past the iceberg it is it is now about seven minutes after the collision let's talk about the engines let's talk about the the fact that often gets overlooked about how the ship stopped the engines were stopped during the collision and then they were restarted at half a head chance do you want to take a lead on this yeah this is an interesting thing that's caused a lot of confusion over the years especially since so many of the individuals that were directly involved in it like Murdoch Captain Smith you know they didn't survive the event so they weren't able to give us their direct recollections of you know what they did immediately after the collision we're kind of piecing things together around the fringes one of the things we know of course is that the ship's engines were running at very high steam pressure all of Sunday evening in fact for a little while that night they were actually about I think it was 10 or 15 pounds over their rated capacity so when the ship stopped the engines were stopped for the evasive maneuver the ship still had a little bit of momentum Murdoch obviously ordered the hard a-port order to try to fishtail the stern away from the iceberg this set the Titanic's bow kind of northwesterly direction as she drifted to a stop but then something happened at about eleven forty three ships time about three minutes after the collision where this Tom said they re engaged the engines at half ahead a number of people mentioned either seeing the order on the engine order Telegraph or hearing the engines restart and they ran for about three minutes best best estimate based on what was happening the very various Pete's pieces so from about eleven forty three to eleven forty six the ship was moving forward very slowly some of they they suspect that maybe they were trying to put a little distance between the ship and the Berg so that they didn't just into each other as far as I'm concerned that's probably about as good a guess as we could probably make at this point there may be some other explanations but we do know that at about eleven forty six the engines were wrong off there's time for good and that was about the same time that Bruce Ismay apparently arrived on the bridge and it was at that point after Smith told him about the cola vision and that he when Ismay asked you know is it serious Ismay was told by the captain I think it is okay so just for curiosity's sake in those three minutes about how far do you think the ship coasted I wouldn't be coasting but you know what I mean yeah well she still had a little momentum left over after the evasive maneuver I actually haven't looked at the data on how far she would have seen but not far you're not talking you know a long distance here just a little bit yeah that's fine that's that's the other action I expected you to know how off-the-cuff that's a good yeah all right did you is there speculation as to why the best speculation that I've heard and I'm not up on what everyone out there says but the what really really does it for me is that they were trying to put a little distance from the Berg whether they were afraid they were gonna drift into it or I'm not exactly sure maybe they wanted to test maneuvering capability it's tough to say just because you know we're dealing with everything kind of secondhand clearly within just five or six minutes things got to a point where it was obvious that something was pretty seriously wrong and at that point you don't want to keep driving the ship forward you don't know what damage has been done underwater and so at that point that's when they rung the engines off and that was the last time they they were in use we know that in the case of the Britannic the sister ship of the Titanic the forward momentum of the ship and the fact that they kept the engines on aided in the rapidity of the sinking and they kind of accelerate her demise the Titanic at a very different damage the windows were not some windows were open but obviously being such a cold night most of them were not I think the in the forward momentum the forward motion of the ship in those three minutes would have an existence but not necessarily overly significance exactly what do you think you you agree yeah and that's something that's kind of been blown out of proportion yeah especially for people who like to blame the ship's officers or the captain or I've even seen some blame go on to Bruce Ismay yeah basically claiming the Ismay was on the bridge screaming that we've got a you know get back on track to New York no matter what the damage is and that really doesn't fit with the the evidence that we have in hand you know it was only about three minutes and it was you know immediately after the collision some people have thought that it was she steamed for a longer period but that really doesn't fit with the overall timeline that we were able to piece together so like you say it it might have been a small factor I mean if you're pushing forward you might have a slight buildup of what's called hydrostatic pressure against the damage it might have forced the water into the hole a little faster just for those couple of minutes but you're not talking any significant contributing factor to the sinking all right I definitely agree oh and by the way I can't feel free to disagree with anything I say I'd rather be corrected on the air if I say something then have well especially then have a bunch of people comment later when the video gets archived there was like a slip of the tongue I had like three years ago in one of these things I saw I'm sorry I know the difference but I sometimes get just the names Frederick Barrett and Frederick fleet mixed up ah and I said Frederick fleet when I met Barrett and I corrected myself in stream 30 seconds later and I'm still getting comments correcting it please feel free to correct me or Matt or Kyle or anything that we say you were the expert here we're the ones making a video game yeah but what I appreciate about what you guys are doing is that you know you're following the evidence you're looking for the facts and you're not just kind of saying oh well it was a ship that sank a long time ago we want to make a video game out of it for me you know I've been watching you guys work for years and I really appreciate that you're always up on the latest research you're always willing to do whatever is necessary to make things as accurate as possible so you know all you know if something comes up like that I appreciate the invitation all along I'll try to keep it as as a friendly as possible you want to embarrass anybody no that's fine all right I like discussion here all right so yeah all right we're now about about 24 so minutes after the collision yep it's 1157 their time right now our animation shows the Titanic still coasting to a halt this of course is debatable this could be an incorrect but at this point the officers and is they are inspecting the inspecting the damage in the sinking and Kent this is another subject that you and I have spoken about so much going back and forth um remember not to share any private information about is in the game but yeah you and I have discussed so much about which officers went where what were their findings who they talked to who they encountered along their routes and so in this time who was inspecting and what is going on I remember there's a report that said in the first 10 minutes this much water was in this compartment this much water and this many feet of water in the next compartment any summary you can give us here this this is real but what really fascinates me is how fast time passes it's one thing to Monday Morning Quarterback things and say you know it's an absurd to think that it would have taken them an hour to get the first lifeboats into the water and you hear that a lot however we've been talking I mean just conversation in a very relaxed well as relaxed as you can be when you've got everyone live and and they're following you kind of a relaxed roundtable conversation here and it's already 11:58 ship's time you know so already 18 minutes have passed since the collision and what's been happening is thomas andrews appeared on deck very very shortly after the collision it seems that he was probably unprompted that he came out of his cabin or wherever he was he was seen forward on the promenade deck but then by just a short time later he was seen passing down below decks and captain smith was seen at about 1152 heading toward the engine room at 11:55 in the dining saloon Stewart James Johnston saw Thomas Andrew just come back up to D deck from below go forward through the saloon and then back down toward the mailroom so at this point Andrews and Captain Smith are all heavily engaged in trying to assess the damage and it seems that they had started aft which kind of makes sense for a collision scenario because the stern of the ship would swing I maybe they thought the damage was back there first and they wanted to talk to chief engineer Bell see what he had you know what had turned up down there see if there was damage back there but now they're coming up and they're moving back through the saloon and taking this shortcut to go back down toward the the forward male hold and so it it just shocks me now it's midnight ships time and it's already 15th of April and 20 minutes are already gone and it this is just moving around a big shake-up climbing up stairs going down stairs move being asked three or four hundred feet along a certain deck you know talking to people comparing notes it all of this investigation is gonna take time yeah yeah we have some very interesting super chats coming in I want to just address a couple of them I appreciate Yoshi your channel is nothing but class thank you and thank you Yoshi you are who I play as in Mario Kart so thank you very much that's an honor some excellent questions specifically about some of the later events in the sinking question about Matt but he doesn't have to answer that I say let's see oh man where did it go where to go I saw it I saw a very good question I really really wanted to address it it was relevant to where we are in the timeline I can't find it in like two seconds I'm gonna have to move on okay the subject and no no I don't oh yeah duh there it is okay Saturn's quarry again it is asking about the time zone changes that's what I was gonna go into and we already plan to discuss that Kent you may have an article you end and other historians wrote an article about the time zone changes and you have you've come up with the differences here and I I think you're actually quite a good authority on the time zone changes but there's so many different ones going around lately translating New York time East Coast time into Titanic time the very odd thing about Titanic's time zone is it was not necessarily in a governmental type time zone where they sense a like a large region is all synced up but as the Titanic is moving forward it's actually ticking through the minutes yeah yeah you're this is this is how they did things back then I'll try to give it in about three or four minutes and if you come up on something and you want to interrupt me Tom go right ahead um but really let me just try and do it succinctly here as everybody pretty much knows that there was five hours time difference between time and say London England and time in say New York City the earth was broken up into 24 time zones during the 19th century I don't have the year in front of me but this arena has its own go on now that's an interesting one I'm not sure how they factored into the Titanic disaster but they'll have to check into that they're kept their calendar began on the night the Titanic sank oh god that that one is new to me you got me on that one April 15th 1912 Kim Jong Il was born sorry what are the kids so anyways we have the earth broken up into 24 time zones and their London and New York or five hours apart so the real question is in 1912 on the Titanic how did they adjust those clocks as they moved across the ocean you had to add those five hours and somehow nowadays when we fly we get something called jet lag because yeah the jet dumps you off and you're in the new time zone and it's very uncomfortable on the body clock back then what they went by is something called solar noon so they were looking to find when the Sun was at its zenith at their location at at noon time and if they were they were remarkable navigators the skills they had to develop what they would do is they would and anticipate based on the weather the engine speed the speed of the ship the currents they would anticipate where the ship was going to be at noon solar time local time the next day and they would do this calculation around it would be done before dinner time because they would post the amount of their clock change in the in the companion ways shortly after dinner and they would say for example on this night we're going to be putting the clocks back by 47 minutes on this individual night that was the plan set back this was carried out the set back was supposed to be carried out at around midnight the evidence that we turned up said it would be broken into two small adjustments into two different watches one just before midnight ships time and one just after midnight so 23 minutes and 24 minutes totaling 47 minutes and what you can actually do if you're good enough and I personally not good enough I work I have worked with some team members who are good enough to do this and I can follow the logic it's incredible to to watch is you can actually see that time equate to a position they expected to be on Monday so they would change it by however much they needed so that the Sun was at its zenith at noon ships time and so they were never in a specific time zone uh today a like I believe on the ships like the Queen Mary - when they're going across the Atlantic I believe the standard practices won out our changes as they go through the time zones that's that's what's been told to me but on Titanic they didn't do it that way so throughout the day on Sunday right up to the collision they were running two hours and two minutes ahead of New York time and of course in 1912 they didn't have daylight saving time or British summer time depending on which side of the Atlantic you're on that's something that was implemented during World War one and so we're on daylight saving time here in the u.s. today which put us an hour ahead of where we would have been so you have to take that two hour and two minute time difference and you have to cut that by one hour so 11:40 p.m. ships time in 1912 equates from 9 yeah yeah B 1912 listeners right now carry on yeah that that's a good number so they were running 2 hours and 2 minutes ahead that so the collision time would have equated a 938 p.m. New York time nowadays now that we're in our head that's 10:30 8 p.m. eastern standard time here in 2019 so that's why that's why we're doing a stream at the time they were doing it because we're trying to line it up with where things would have been in 1912 and the planned clock setback was not carried out because it would have been done just before midnight and the Titanic hit at 11:40 ships time so throughout the disaster the time difference to New York was 2 hours and 2 minutes and she was 2 hours and 58 minutes behind Greenwich Mean Time or nowadays one hour and two minutes ahead of New York and three hours and 58 minutes behind Greenwich Mean Time so I mean it's so complicated and yet they they knew this so well it was like they could do it in their sleep and they really were remarkable navigators overall is that huh yes it does it does thank you very much thinking can you think of any questions that um might make it clearer for the viewers I really don't I can't it's it's one of those things where the the navigators just know what they're doing why don't you point them towards your article yes what we did our team it were kind of like the so I kind of jokingly call us like the Mod Squad we kind of go in and we find something where there's some controversy and we try to get our group together and all of us has some different viewpoints and perspectives and and things that we specialize in and we try to figure it out so what we did is we took a lot of disparate information that was kind of spread out over dozens of books and articles in print and online and we tried to bring it together in one place and we released it last year I think it was in August it was called time and again Titanic's final hours and we were able to go through a lot of the reasons why the inquiries all three inquiries arrived at different estimates of the time difference between Titanic's time in New York time and they were all wrong so it they didn't agree with each other one was an hour and 33 minutes another was an hour and 39 minutes and the third one was an hour and fifty minutes and it's remarkable when you start peeling back the layers of the onion you kind of can see where they went wrong where the mistakes were made and really knowing the position of the wreck today that really helps us to be able to know for sure exactly where the where the time was and we have that they were planning on doing we have that definitive position thank you for the explanation Kent I would not call that door what we say it covered it and it was good and in my mind it's definitive so give me a time check where are we in Titanic time all right now it's 12:10 a.m. so all right now Annie Robinson the stewardess is seeing water on edik by the mail room mm-hmm and she sees Captain Smith and Thomas Andrews coming back from the mail route mail room and right now she's hearing Andrews say to Smith well three have gone already and apparently Andrews was referencing three flooded cargo holds and at this point Smith yield off and more headed back up toward the bridge pause Kent's three flooded cargo holds specifically and not just three flooded compartments that's uh here are three cargo holds I find that help I'll let you explain because I just find that a bit odd yeah because the the exact words that she recalled Andrews saying were well three have gone already captain logically speaking what compartments would he have been speaking about we know that on the forepeak tank I had been punctured because it was noted that that was flooding but that the storeroom above it above the tank was dry so would Andrews have been talking about the peak tank probably not did he even know that the peak tank was flooded at that point I'm not sure but one thing he did know was that the three compartments that he had access to were flooded very likely that was the three cargo holds it's what makes sense it says it's a logical interpretation of his words quote we can't be dogmatic about it I see what you're saying you're saying when he says three have gone already he does mean three compartments which happened to be the three cargo holds it was no likely it was not a statement of three of the cargo holds have gone already exactly right okay yeah I wanted to clarify because I'm not good debate that if if it was that yeah all right what is the approximate time that we know Titanic was declared sinking by Thomas Andrews it would must be right before the first distress calls go out and the order to evacuate begins exactly and you know it's it's tough to pin down the times but when you put the puzzle pieces around the edges you kind of can work backwards and you kind of come up with a pretty reasonable conclusion on the time we know that at 12:22 a.m. on Titanic's ship time which would be let's see we're at 12 13 were in about nine minutes from now Thomas Andrews was observed because he was well-known among the passengers and crew he was seen rushing up the forward grand staircase he was literally taking steps three at a time we're told the first-class passenger and a Warren she saw him on D deck heading up and she actually said that she thought that he had a look of terror on his face so where was he going this is a really good question well Williams sloper saw Andrews continuing up the stairs a couple of decks above that and he thought the Andrews looked worried so clearly Andrews had discovered by 12:00 about 12:22 a.m. that the situation was unsalvageable and he had to get the captain smith very quickly Smith knew the situation was serious when they had broken up at 12:10 but apparently Smith didn't know it was done it was a done deal so we know that that was at about 12:20 2 a.m. he was spotted going up the stairs we could probably say that by 1225 a.m. ship's time Andrews and Captain Smith had probably met up and we're discussing the fact that it was game over so we still have a few minutes to that point yeah so it's uh 12:15 right now so we have about 10 minutes before they would have met up and that would have been but she's gone at this point the postal workers are still pulling letters and parcels up the stairs correct yeah it would seem that way yep let's address some of these super chats there's a couple interesting ones about damage control J a Bristol says he's heard a theory that mattresses could be dropped over the side to be sucked up against the whole of the ship's hull i-i've heard that I've heard that in one of the James Cameron documentaries actually that that's a potential theory I always found it to be silly but I wanted to let you guys know that there are instances of that actually happening from what I understand it's always on smaller ships with the damage being so far below the surface of the Titanic and quite honestly them not knowing exactly where it is and the length of the damage in reality which they were not fully aware of at the time I felt I don't think that would have been viable I think that's something that maybe might have crossed their minds if they were on a smaller ship but on the Titanic that would have been absolutely impossible I tend to agree with that assessment personally they had what were called collision mats and they would you know in in the case of a small collision they would put them over the side and the water coming into the hull would take the collision mats and really pulled him in again tight against the hull and then they would try to fasten them and make them stay in position to try and stop that flooding but as you say I mean you're talking about a line of damage all the way from the forepeak tank all the way through boiler room number six and poking just past the ball came to boiler number five that is an incredible amount of damage and if we're talking after the forward final that's a significant length of the ship exactly so the the bulkhead dividing six and five was really under the middle of the number one funnel where it came out of the roof of the officers quarters so it was it was just past that point you know the middle of number one funnel yeah that's an incredible amount of damage and now you can't see where the damage is on the inside of the ship because all of these spaces are flooding so were you gonna try to send men out onto the deck in the dark with a few collision mats to try to guess at you know where this this damage is that would have taken a lot longer there then try to get everything else going this time is absolutely valuable at this point they do this we like to look back you were saying a lot of people scoff at the fact that it took them an hour to get the first lifeboat away but they knew how critical time was they would not have wasted their time doing anything like this because they knew if it's going down we got to get these boats away so even though there was that our that our was not necessarily wasted at least I'll liberally no not at all in fact we found solid evidence that they were preparing the lifeboats just getting things ready before they knew the ship was doomed just in case they needed them and of course in the end this proved to be a huge boon to the evacuation effort so they worked but he certainly weren't wasting time idea that they were just kind of standing around on the deck and chatting for an hour you know it's just it keeps getting recycled because I think a lot of people like to try to place blame and try to they tried a Monday Morning Quarterback at they say oh you know I would have I would have done things differently yeah but it doesn't it doesn't hold up when you really play it out in real time I mean right now it's already 12 19 a.m. what was that 12 19 it it's already 12 19 a.m. right so I mean this time is to slip on so quickly yeah because there's already there's still things I want to discuss before we reach the Declaration of sinking and we're already almost there john-boy asks he asks about how things are progressing with the game animations voice acting and that's something I want to talk about during this stream whenever we get the opportunity to talk about the actual game I was away from the sinking and mentioned that because this is when we have the most people to did so anyway the animations of people I cannot go into it I know I said that every time that is that is my standard statement but got some cool stuff I'm actually messaging someone right now we got we got something going on and I am looking forward to down the road having a nice video showcasing that and if all goes well if all of our ducks are in a row it will be both impressive visually as well as logistical e what else do we got going on here there's a lot of people commenting about how much they enjoy this stuff I know I I don't I can't tackle everything but I just wanted to say thank you thank you it when I see someone say that we hit over 2,200 and watching the live stream yeah 20 231 we now have more people listening than we're on board the Titanic that's incredible absolutely incredible okay here's something here's something Yoshi I'm gonna tackle what you just said you just asked how much longer would she have lasted if the bulkhead was not damaged by the coal fire normally I have a strict no coal fire discussion policy this week I can't why don't we open that can of worms if we can shove a package within four minutes go ahead Kent yeah this is like you say this is kind of a hot-button topic that a lot of people have heard around the last year or so we've known about the coal fires since 1912 there was a lot of testimony about it in the the enquiries and it was basically decided that it really didn't play much of a factor in things and so they really didn't dig too deeply in the inquiries to get all the details which is kind of frustrating for us today because sometimes when you're reading the testimony you know just when things are getting juicy it's like okay you know lord mercy or one of the other questioners would be like all right you know I'm done here this really didn't seem to have much bearing on things we kind of got a move on here but in the last couple of years this is really heated up no pun intended and the the implication that I've seen out there in the last year - is that Titanic was basically all about ablaze I mean there are animations out there with huge flames and yeah you would you would think it pulled the Normandy almost yeah yeah I mean this is what if you watch the news this is what you would say and the implication has also been out there that you know Captain Smith and the White Star Line officials were you know saying there's no way we're gonna cancel the maiden voyage on account of a little fire you know and then things got worse today and the implication is that it really caused a disaster the problem with that is Thomas Andrews knew about the fire he knew about the damage bulkhead he knew about that long before the collision and it didn't play into his calculations it didn't seem on what was happening with the ship the damage was already past the bulkhead in question so the the bunker the bulkhead it it the I'm just trying to find the right words to kind of us you know how do you do it in a form in a window here you well I'm trying for example one of the things that we discovered was the swimming pool was there's basically right on top of the bunker that was where the fire was and if the fire had been a so hot in that bunker especially on Sunday that it had you know seriously damaged the hull of the ship you know weakening it to the point where the bulkhead just collapsed under the weight of the water you would think that because heat rises you think that the the pool would have been a like a steaming cauldron and yet we know that the pool was in use right up through Sunday Sunday morning we know Gracie was in the pool he said it was heated to her fresh temperature he didn't say it was boiling hot so where was all that heat joint you know it that's clearly there wasn't enough heat to disrupt anything above in the pool third-class passengers weren't complaining about smoke you know their their quarters were in that general vicinity above where the fire was and really the the process of the the ship's bow being pulled down by the weight of the water in the front of the ship meant that the water was going to come over the tops of the bulkheads at some point ship was doomed and whether the way the water filled or room number five when when there was that rush of water that was reported it actually seems like the water had filled the bunker and that the bunker bulkhead or the door that that held the bunker but closed failed not the primary bulkhead itself right a door that was never meant to be watertight exactly so what effect did the fire have on the sinking little to none you know we can really sum it up that way we of course do you for a second calm because it's it's gone 12:26 ships time right so clearly right now Captain Smith now knows that the ship is is gone for I did I didn't want to interrupt your train of thought I just figured I'd pointed out at 12:27 for the first distress call is sent so that comes up in just a few seconds and actually it was transmitted with a position of 41 degrees 46 minutes north 50 degrees 24 minutes west kind of gives you an idea of how much they were rushing to get that distress position ready if they needed it the initial distress call was actually off by a factor of seven miles beyond where the 14 minutes west was so actually the the first one which was apparently done by Captain Smith put them 20 miles west of where they actually were and boxes distress position when it was corrected later on only put them 13 miles west of where they really were so they were really rushing trying to get this distressed position ready it kind of gives you an idea of how busy they were in those in those initial minutes after the collision yeah and that message is going out now by the way so you you said Smith and Boxhall are the ones who reported the position I know Smith reported the positions to bride and Phillips in the telegraph room and then I know Boxhall came in I also know Boxhall was was there on the bridge using the sextant trying to work out the position he was ordered to do so by Smith I think it was but that first report of their actual location that Smith gave them what do you think that was based on you think he worked that out himself do you think that was just the last-known position of a Titanic when they last did a reading or what what do you think it's it's funny that you asked that because we know that right about now at about 12:20 7 a.m. Boxall encountered captain Smith on the deck and this was at a point when Captain Smith Healy asks to the captain is a situation serious and Smith says it is he tells them the andrews has given the ship an hour to an hour and a half to live at that point and it's funny because Boxhall asked the captain you know what position did you send you know and Captain Smith and told him what he had based that position on which was the dead reckoning position and immediately the response to Boxhall gave to that it it almost seemed like he was a little bit nervous when he heard that because he was thinking and I got to try to remember whether it was ahead or behind the dead reckoning position I think it was ahead but don't quote me on that please listeners don't quote me on that it's it's in the book and I just didn't don't remember the word there at any rate box yet you know they're going to be all over it I know I know and well we got a good audience yeah they're good one way the other though box Hall seemed to know immediately when he heard that that it wasn't going to be quite what it needed to be right and so Captain Smith says okay go in and work it out yourself and that's what box Hall did and he came in at 12:35 ships times so that's it's 1229 now so only six minutes from now you can see how fast the time goes um you know he comes back to captain Smith and shows them the revised coordinates and that's when Smith tells them to take it to the Marconi room right so while all this action is going on with with the captain and figuring out the position and the Marconi message is going out we also have a lifeboats we have a lot of drama going on with loading up the boats getting them prepped and bringing them out we're trying to pull up a file right now actually the file you send me that has the lifeboat launches but of course I'm on a very very slow laptop what are you listen right now in what the current status of the evacuation and the lifeboats are so going backwards just a few minutes to 12:00 12:00 a.m. that's about the time the quartermaster Hitchens heard Captain Smith give the order to swing out the lifeboats and to distribute the life belts that was before he knew the ship was doomed you can see how proactive they were really being they knew the situation was serious they weren't gonna take any risks they said let's get these lifeboats ready so moving forward and this is a this is a huge operation this is all done by manpower they have mechanical assistance you know they that the boats are lashed to the deck they have these chains that the snubbing chains to hold them to the deck so they don't swing around in bad weather and rough seas they have to break the snubbing panes they have to get out the handles thinks they have to crank each one of these davits out so that the boats hanging over the sea and that's after the boats had to be uncovered I mean so you're looking at the 16th lifeboats on under davits 14 of which you know not counting the the two collapsibles you're looking at an enormous effort and when you add into that the kind of the crew kind of found out piecemeal what was going on because we can remember they didn't have a PA system at the time so you know people would show up on deck and an officer looking for a couple of hands would say hey you here help me do this and it was really that kind of system all up and down the length of the boat deck and so now you've got this very noisy situation playing out where you've got steam blowing off from the funnels even now the steam is blowing off it creates a thunderous racket so that you really can't talk to anyone Lightoller leaders said years later that you basically had to go up to a guy tap him on the shoulder gesture show him what you wanted him to do and then he would go do it then you had the noise of the cranks and noise of the the chains being broken and it was just it was a very odd not a very peaceful scene at this point on the deck and this is this was being relieved from the boilers which is a significant action that the crew and the very bottom of the ship have to do so we have all this on every layer of the ship there's an insane amount of effort going on by the Titanic's crew of around nine hundred people on the boat deck we have the officers we have the sailors we have the deckhands bringing out those lifeboats and getting them all set and of course Ella Grahams going out for distress in the the body of the ship we have the stewards the stewardesses going around to the different passengers knocking on the doors telling people to get your lifebelts on go to the to the rallying points I forget the official term for the rallying points during the evacuations but the first-class lounge yeah they were congregating on the forward grand staircases and in the lounge right and then in the very bottom of the ship the boiler rooms the engine rooms we have a QA ting masti and the whole purpose of that is the burning hot boilers with their massive amounts of pressure internally once the freezing cold icy water reaches it it has the potential to explode and in many ships at the time boilers did just go up because of something like this so the Titanic with 29 boilers on board these are essentially 29 massive bombs exactly that steam out as quickly as they can as you were describing it is deafening I mean we're at the point where yeah hand gestures or you have to go up and cup your hands over your mouth literally up someone's ears so it's it's deafening I'm looking forward to recreating that but that was one thing if I was one thing that I really enjoyed in the the James Cameron movie there was a cutscene when they showed all of this going on in the deck and I mean it was just absolutely deafening you know in the theaters I remember that first night when we saw it you know it was shocking how loud this scene was on the deck and it really did convey what it would have been like to be there that night and like like you say and looking forward to seeing how that works out in the final in the final game one quick note I really just want to I want to drill into everybody which is astonishing I cannot think of any time in history prior to the Titanic where something this big with so many people on a ship was evacuated like this let alone in the middle of the night by a semi an experienced crew on a ship that they're so confident in and there's 2,200 people on the Titanic there's 20 lifeboats there's 900 crew there's 1,300 passengers and ideally you'd be evacuating everyone into the lifeboats obviously no we know they couldn't but that's an ideal circumstances 2,200 people that you have to wake up and get into tiny lifeboats on the icy North Atlantic in the middle of the night this is done before it really is in a sense unprecedented you're right and you got to think about it from the perspective of the ship was basically asleep when when the collision happened it wasn't like a modern cruise ship where everybody is up partying at midnight I mean these people kind of they went to bed earlier many of them and they got up earlier in the mornings and many people are accustomed to doing today so at 11:30 the public rooms were kind of being shut down for the night and at that point what are you gonna do you go back to your cabin maybe you play a game of cards with someone in your cabin or you know the ship was quiet everybody was was going to bed for the night or in bed and asleep already and you have to go from that point to everyone's got to get in the lifeboats and you have to do it in a way that you're you're handling things so that you're not creating a panic because that was I it's clear that that was a great fear in the minds of many of the the crew and officers people who knew how bad things were gonna get they didn't want those lifeboats to get rushed I didn't want pandemonium to break out they needed to get those lifeboats away safely in a controlled manner and you can't do that if you have mass chaos so they had to instill urgency and yet at the same time they had to do it in a way where they weren't you know people were going to be throwing their arms over the head and and just running around the deck and and losing losing control of themselves because it was a really bad situation absolutely and a lot of Titanic's officers were not in the custom of interacting with the passengers all that much you see it in the movies a little bit but my understanding in the White Star Line officer staff is you don't talk to the passengers the captain he can talk to the passengers the purser he can talk to the passengers but the officers you don't that is not their job and Mike it was strongly discouraged yeah it was very much discouraged of course if you're out on the deck in the past you know you're an officer and a passenger sees you and says hello you're gonna smile and you're gonna you know are you enjoying your trip etc etc but you know like you say they didn't seek passengers out to spend time with them that would be very much discouraged the relevancy to to the previous statement of that is now we've got all these officers who generally did never never conversed with these passengers they are probably very inexperienced with handling passengers in a mob like this and now they have to adhere to the general company policies of strict friendliness and and get along with everybody keep them happy and of course the stigma of the era where they're always formal and polite while balancing that with get the hell on the damn boat we're sinking yeah this is a this is a challenge for a lot of its it really is you know and you also have to consider that they were trying to sued the passengers nerd yeah because you know especially your first class passengers either very very well-to-do individuals who you know they didn't take kindly to being kind of pushed around so I mean as early as twelve fifteen to twelve twenty the the ship's band was beginning to play in some of the interior spaces of the ship like the lounge and on the grand staircase mm-hmm yeah all right let's uh let's tackle a couple more quick super jets okay the shell doors being ordered open by lights hauler that doesn't come yet correct that's um that's down the road maybe about a half hour or so I think you're right you caught me unprepared on that one hell isn't it that oh I'm sorry but I do believe you're right I think that's what it's quite a little bit down the road okay is that a discussion we should avoid if you're not prepared or that when we get there I can try to do a little bit of a read ahead out of refresh my memory real quick what we're doing no I was just I was just saying if it's coming up we'll wait till we get there before we hit a dressing so we'll do that with you because Matt how asks if the shell door was closed with slow the syncing the very direct answer to that is yes but when we when we get up to it I'd like to discuss it in a little bit more detail I also would like to reiterate how much I hate my laptop right now everything is lagging and slow and scrolling through the chat is so incredibly slow and switching back and forth between the stream and the notes I have here takes about two minutes all right so oh and I just lost the stream all right carrying on improvising so right about now we are at 12:40 or so Titanic time and lifeboat four is being prepared this is the lifeboat that gets lowered down to the a deck promenade now the interesting thing about these lifeboats and the interesting thing about the Titanic's structure is the lifeboats were not necessarily designed to be launched and are loaded and launched from the boat deck they're just stored on the boat and then they lower them down to a deck and that's why the Olympic had the open promenade going along the whole length so that in the events of an emergency passengers can climb right over the railing climb into the lifeboat hanging down from the deck above and then they're lowered from there this is a practice that occurred with some of the lifeboats but not all many of them were indeed loaded from the boat deck above which is not necessarily standard practice but lifeboat four had the most confusion surrounding that the lifeboat was lowered down to a deck level with a deck by Officer lights on and he sent a couple sailors to go down and lead a large group of passengers to this lifeboat and life before happened to come down in the enclosed part of the a deck promenade so instead of that open space with just nothing but those support beams instead we actually have glass windows that are locked and you have to crank them down now the sailors were told go down there unlock the windows and load them through them through the windows but they couldn't find the key they couldn't eat yeah the cranks were missing they didn't know where the cranks were apparently right right hey one of the one of the neat things tangent in real quick is when you tour the Queen Mary in Long Beach California and we did this actually as a team about a year ago you can actually see almost identical windows like this on the second-last promenade and it really gives you a wonderful impression of Windows they had to climb through you can see the hand cranks that would have been used to open these glass windows and then you can actually lean through and see how far down the water is so uh of these real-life anchors that we can use to connect to yeah even right now if I can just point out really quick right now a lifeboat number seven is going down to the water on the starboard side the first lifeboat to leave yep launched by officer Murdoch did anything interesting happen as that booklet was leaving I believe that the lowering on that one was the one that was one of the ones in the forward starboard side it was a little bit rough the ends were one of the ends held up and the other end went down further and some of the passengers got really nervous but I'm trying to remember off the top of my head which one that was it was either seven right and go through yeah seven or five what is that one - those - yeah - only on the on the starboard side yeah I had heard a statement that the paint on the davits was still wet dare I say moist and the the ropes feeding through it kept sticking and that made it even more difficult for the sailors lowering it is there any is there any reality to that statement is that pure virgin yeah yeah it it is difficult to say for sure I've heard those reports - I've read those accounts where they talk about the paint getting stuck I'm not inclined to believe that that was the main contributing cause but he you have to think about physical evidence we have very little physical evidence to work with and only what people said they saw so that very well could have been a contributing factor in at least some of the cases you know maybe somebody got a little sloppy with the brush when they were when they were putting the paint down and we know about the rush to get the ship ready to leave Belfast and in Southampton and we know there was a lot of painting going on while the ship was in Southampton who knows it very well could have happened yeah we probably one of those maintenance things that would have been taken care of in a week's time you know somebody would owe an officer would have walked by and he would have said that's unacceptable and and that would have been the end of that but it just they really were caught totally unprepared in this situation trying to do what I would consider almost the impossible right you know the ship's one of the people who was behind the building of the ship had been down below and he had run the math in his head or even on a sheet of paper we don't know for sure but he says we're done and you've got an hour to one hour and a half and now you're looking at all these lifeboats and you've got no PA you're trying to get this done in an orderly fashion it really is remarkable to me that they managed to get all of the primary lifeboats off the deck before the ship went down it's incredible and the two collapsibles the yeah remaining two collapsibles that they they were not successful in launching but instead had to float off I believe that those lifeboats those collapsibles were just never intended to be used there was no convenient way of getting them down off the officers quarters roof onto the boat deck past the the stays for the funnels and then off over the side there there's no right way of doing that and the officer struggled to try to figure out how they could manage that I firmly believe that collapsibles a and B were put on and never intended to ever be touched until the ship gets scratched yeah it really was a very inconvenient location to put those boats state I mean they did have a method you know they had designed a method where you could do it they had I believe it was support spars that you could bring out and you could slide them down to the deck but you're talking about a boat that weighs four or five tons and you have a shackle the unshackle the stays for the the funnel to get it out past the funnel mm-hmm yeah you're looking at a huge effort to get those two boats down from the deck and you know as you say I think they were there no one really gave a lot of thought to an emergency situations where boy we're going to be trying to get these out break these out in a short time you know you know and so the the 18 other lifeboats the 14 regular boats to to emergency cutters and the two collapsibles that were on the boat deck C and D I mean you it really is remarkable to me that they got those boats away from the ship in the time that they had and that they even they were they they got a on the starboard side down to the deck you know be had a bit rougher ride that it you know it's it went upside down or to the deck but they got collapsible a down onto the starboard bow deck and they were getting ready to launch it at the end and they were about to hook it up to the to the falls that's yeah and that's when they they realised we're out of time you know so they got they really got eighteen boats away between twelve forty and about to fifteen you run the math on that that's that's pretty fast considering the circumstances the Titanic's crew get a lot of flack for wasting time being an efficient not knowing what they're doing a sloppy evacuation but all things considered I I strongly believe they did the best they possibly could have yeah yeah it really when you especially when you're running a live event like this and you're thinking about what's going on in the background just what we're talking right now it's twelve fifty so boat number five has already lowered away we we were just talking about boat number seven boat number five has already left the deck a boat number three is about to leave the deck at 12:55 a.m. so I mean they were really pushing you get those lifeboats away from the ship by in short order he really is remarkable to me how fast the time goes when we're sitting here doing this live mm-hmm the starboard side they had the lifeboats moving much more efficiently than the the port side under like taller Murdoch had essentially assumes command of the starboard side evacuation and lights Haller had taken command of the portside evacuation but one of the interesting things is to note is that that does not mean Murdoch went to every single boat and lowered that himself and that does not mean that a taller went to every single boat on its portside we have evidence that pretty much everything one of the officers including the captain was involved in loading up boats and getting passengers in and commanding them being swung out and lowered yeah even Bruce Ismay this is one of my personal favorite stories for for what was to happen it was just happened was it is may I had really he got underfoot when it came to boat number five he he pushed to get things moving quickly and then things really got hot because fifth officer Lowe showed up and his mate was a little bit excitable you know clearly he knew that the ship was going down and it there he is and he's he's telling love o to to hurry things up stuff from the beginning of the night he was in a lousy mood the entire time so he's already with testy he had a tough night because he probably suspected that he was after the fact that he was going to get into trouble cuz remember he overslept so this this was not lows night at all he gets on the deck late in the back of his mind you have to even wonder was he thinking that he was going to get flack for showing up late for over sleeping and there he doesn't recognize his may because remember the decks are pretty dark and he was from the I believe it was slow that was from the Australian run so he probably didn't know is me on site as well as some of the other officers and you know he's he really exploded it is May and basically told him to to get lost and is remarkable to me they hear the chairman of the company has just yelled at by one of his employees and I think I think in the excellent testament to is Mays character whether you love him or hate him is the fact that he took it he did he heard Lowe an extreme subordinates underneath of his may is made virtually owns the company is Mays the director of the board he essentially in all intents and purposes owns the Titanic and here he was just shot down by one of his lowest ranked officers yep and he just agreed he's like you're right you know he just backs off and he moves on to the next boat quietly and how many of us in that situation you know they say you know someone with a little bit of authority it kind of goes to their head and how many of us with that kind of authority basically heading the not only the white star line but he was the managing director of IMM so the parent company that owns the White Star Line he is you know the the family he's the big guy founded yes and how many of us was that kind of authority knowing what's going on yet getting yelled at by a lowly officer on the deck and and lo really was it he quite intemperate and his remarks I mean how many of us would have sat there and taken that and just said okay and moved on to the next boat mm-hmm I mean if this is the rich snob was pushing around his crew and demanding the ship move faster just simply on his own whim and then jumping off in the first opportunity he gets not he would not take that from his fifth officer fifth of six officers so anyway I have been neglecting our extremely generous super chest I want to just address a few of them I know I should be reading all of them but they're coming in so thick and thank you really enjoying the discussion so um all right Patrick Dawson he gave a $100 thank you very much he says I've been an ocean-like historian since nine years of age before it was fashionable well done Patrick too without you guys he says police finality is worth the wait Pat Patrick thank you very much I appreciate that Janice ghost hunter 13 gives 25 and says regards I'm trying to scroll through the rest of the super chat and got the spinning color wheel okay here we go speaking of the titanic's are you having all the musicians play together or just the Wallace Hartley and his group we've been studying into that we're putting effort into figuring that one out we are going to show it the way we feel most authentic we're not going to simply slap together what's generally accepted Titanic's band actually had eight or nine members as opposed to the five we see in films the question is did all eight or nine play or was it just the five we see in films we'll go into that later perhaps how would ok rooks channel asks how would a third class and the first class passenger hook up in a realistic sense not the fantastical way James Cameron did third class couldn't get he couldn't get all get to all the first-class areas so how would back up I appreciate the question thing Thank You rooks they wouldn't we'll leave it at that they wouldn't yeah I you know I'm not one of the ones to UM there's a lot of people out there that bash the James Cameron movie and I I don't do that at all I I think you know he did a fantastic job with trying to get a lot of the history as we knew it in 1997 right eight and he had to create as he says he had to create something some relationship that would pull the audience in and get them through and the kind of first class third class polar opposites type thing that's a very appealing story in reality we know of course the United States immigration laws at the time prevented third-class passengers from interacting with second and first that was a movie the officer said and the count of not wanting to spread infectious disease but at that time they um that was a very real threat there were things like trachoma a lot of infectious diseases that really we don't deal with today and you know and sometimes people wouldn't try to get on the ship and hide their symptoms that's that's a well-known fact so these laws are really in place to prevent these people from interact or not not so much out of simple class distinction or not so much out of you know looking down them but just because that was that was the law you know it wasn't just a case of snobbery and you paid more it was it was literally the law and there were medical inspections that had to be performed on both sides of the Atlantic and if if there were scared even with the Lusitania not long before that there had been a scare where the ship had been stopped a quarantine yeah because there was there was concern that someone on board and third-class had had some infectious disease so this this kind of thing it really it really could hamper a ship schedule you think of the money that would be lost if the ship couldn't you know get turned around in New York and get back toward England it can be a disaster for the company so they they had to keep these groups separated just because of the laws of the immigration system and to comply with the hose so really yeah if someone was there are stories out there on different ships of very enterprising individuals managing to break you know through a class barrier and sneak up into second class from third or even in the first class I mean but yeah how authentic are these stories sometimes it's difficult to say because from one the clothing would have made it kind of obvious that you weren't you know a first-class passenger and if you were kind of loitered around in a first-class space and you weren't you know high-end clothes you probably would have looked very out of place and somebody would have caught you and said hey you got to get back to where you belong but how it's no it's interesting yeah it's a fun question as you were saying there's there's other stories of ships getting put into quarantine not just because of actual suspicions but actual breakouts on these ships to the point where everyone on board is getting infected with the disease and in some cases to almost absolute fatality I know one of the theories about the Mary Celeste is they all got a disease and died but that was a much smaller scale there's a very early ocean lion there might actually have just been a sailing ship that was trying to come into the Halifax harbor early 1800s I think it was mid 1800s and a disease broke out I think it might have been typhus typhoid you know and they almost all got and they were turned away and sent to an island in the harbor where where they had to stay and many many of them died in fact the only ones who were willing to go out to them and treat them and care for them were nuns I wish I knew more details in that but the thought just just imagine being in such a confined space as they ship no matter how big it is the Titanic or one of those significantly smaller liners and a virus is just spreading mmm it's it can get to everyone in fact the barriers between first second and third class in some cases might not be enough so that's coming from we look back on it from 2019 where many of these diseases and viruses have been eradicated or at least extremely controlled and we just simply don't see the reasons for it and to be all you know all honesty to be completely honest with you everyone in every class on the Titanic understood and agreed the third-class passengers said we're in third class this is where you belong second class said the same thing about themselves there wasn't the resentment you see in in a lot of movies and documentaries there wasn't the resentment of third class as the have-nots looking up at the haves in the upper class that's kind of a very modernistic take because in our modern lifestyles we've been able to successfully unfortunately remove many of the negative aspects of daily life that would require that sort of class segregation so we are very very fortunate nowadays to be able to live in a society where when we see first class and we see third class the only difference we're able to see is the amount of money they have I think that's I think it's honestly very fortunate because back then you would have you would have seen so many differences you would have seen quality of life differences health differences we're lucky I'm sorry I don't mean to get preaching but the that's why you see yeah you see a lot of animosity now that you did not see you know back in 1912 you know as they said people really didn't question you know they aspired to make more money they they did their best but you know very very different times it's any I think increasingly it's very difficult for us to understand the thinking in 1912 and we tend to go into it kind of with 2019 colored glasses and look at it through those frames at you know modern perspectives and it really is difficult to maintain perspective for the way things were in 1912 now what's interesting I mean we're talking about time here right now it's 1:05 in the morning ships time and boat number one is being lowered from the starboard side but just just in these few minutes that we've been having this conversation well what number five went away boat number three went away at 12:55 the whole fiasco around boat number four they waited for a little while and then they moved on from there Lightoller was working on boat number six and at 1:00 a.m. boat number eight was lowered away and Captain Smith told the crew to row toward the ship on the horizon and then at 1:05 boat number one goes away from the starboard side so I mean well well we've just been kind of talking here for a very short time you know events have really been moving along very quickly with the evacuation yeah it goes by fast it always goes does John Holland gave 5,000 yen which last time I went to Japan that equated to about 50 u.s. well done everybody in loving memory of Jack Phillips the members of the band and the entire staff of the ala carte restaurant Thank You Jon and also yes absolutely I appreciate the memorial to those Tierra's let's talk a little bit well you've just recently mentioned it let's talk about the ship on the horizon it is popularly accepted to be the Californian but there are our people on there are there is a minority of people who believe that that is not the Californian that is some other ship some have speculated it's a whaling ship some have speculated it's it's a mystery ship what are your thoughts on that well it it's a hot-button topic and I try to be reasonable about the whole thing one thing that I I really kind of rankles me is the way in the enquiries there was really a kind of a rush to judgment on the part of some and they really really dealt quite unpleasantly with Captain Lord Himself of the California I I personally think that you need to separate the man and how he was treated when you're looking back at it from what should he or his officers have done um you you kind of have to remove the emotional aspect of it and just look at okay they admitted that they saw a ship on the horizon they saw rockets and they did very little whether you know whether the ship looked okay or not they didn't do a lot and according to maritime regulation they had a duty to at least try to investigate what was going on I mean it kind of makes sense you stopped in the ice you see something curious try to figure out what it is you know is it a ship in distress is it another ship just firing off company signals you know just try to find out what it is repeatedly those officers went to captain board who was resting on the chart room settee and he would tell them you know keep trying keep trying and mmin 'el when I look at the the larger picture I can see why some tried to defend captain Lord I can you know he went out there after he saw night to remember her and then I guess I can hand stories are that's what really made him angry it's the way he was depicted in a night to remember and yet a lot of the deep not all of the details but a lot of the details in that 1958 film were very very spot on with what was happening of course that showed him kind of undressed in bed you know half dressed you know really kind of out and we really can't say for sure that's the way it was but a at the very at the very least get up out of get up off the chart room sateen go up on the deck have a look for yourself if the the Morse lamp wasn't working you know wake up the wireless guy say hey would you mind hopping on the wireless and just see what's going on if we can't figure out what's going on over there none of that would have involved any risk to a ship it wouldn't have involved him pushing through an ice field that he was clearly nervous about incorrectly so I mean you got to give Captain Lord the fact that he stopped the ship when he saw the ice where the Titanic and many other ships of the day they just moved through the ice at top speed so he called it correct when he stopped the ship and he didn't but he didn't investigate what was going on and didn't investigate until it was well well too late and for me looking at the evidence and trying to keep the emotion out of it the identity of the mystery ship you know that's that's been a big controversy for many years and sometimes it seems I can't read what's going on in someone's mind but sometimes it seems as if they're kind of looking for mystery ships and when they see a little tidbit and they say oh it seems like this might be it maybe this is what will finally prove our point you know that's that's the kind of impression that sometimes you get from some of these ones that are trying to defend Captain Lord but the basic point is they saw something weird on the horizon and they didn't investigate and that you know and clearly the next morning just just a little dribs and drabs that we've gotten from what they themselves said they were talking about the next morning they were kicking themselves the next morning some of these individuals saying you know why didn't the officers do more they they clearly thought many of them before they reached Boston that they had kind of made an enormous mistake and that they should have at least investigated right and I think no matter what side of the no matter what side of things you come down on with the Californian you you can all agree that if you see something that's unusual happening you should investigate you should try to see if you can help I remember there was a conversation that was shown in ghosts of the abyss the James Cameron film where they were sitting around the table and you know one of them said you know as a mariner I kind of I'm always hoping that the other guy out there you know he's at least gonna check on me you know if I'm an emergency in an emergency situation I kind of hope that somebody's gonna you know at least say you know are you okay I I think that's something that all of us couldn't agree on you know that they should have done more and they didn't and they kicked themselves for it afterwards and I sympathize with that I I totally understand you have to understand the burden of guilt that they must have carried on their shoulders for the rest of their lives they made a stupid mistake they did not know the gravity of it it's not like they thought oh yeah Titanic sinking we're not gonna help they just didn't put two and two together and I think one of the most pathetic images of failure that I like I said I really feel bad for them one of the most the images of failure that I have seen come out of the Titanic disaster is after the ship is gone in the morning Carpathia has picked up every last lifeboat and there are photographs from the deck of the Carpathia looking out on the SS California it has finally come to the scene they are messaging the Cal Carpathia and asking what can we do to help the carpet in Athiya responds with everything that can be done has been done go back to your Yammer's just a quick side note what's interesting is in the chat somebody pointed out that I was in correctness of which conversation that was I was thinking that was in Costa do you miss somebody I didn't catch their their handle they correctly pointed it out but it was Robert Ballard in one of the mid-eighties documentaries this said that as a mariner I wish I always wish somebody would kind of you know check on me and they were spot on I got the two i conflated the two conversation if they had it they had the roundtable and goes to the abyss and Robert Ballard said those things in the mid-eighties documentary so very well we're going through this conversation we're jumping topics we're quoting so many sources here you're doing great anyway those those kind of mix ups are trivial in my opinion but I'm so glad that someone points these out and make us two other people I'm glad there are people there as almost like a safety net to kind of catch something we do miss speaking of Corrections Jay a Bristol he says Kent's why didn't you tell James Cameron he was misrepresenting Ismay I think I should clear it up you are not Kevin mark shall I think I think what he's asking is knowing that ken was occasionally on the set during the production what I think oh you think he's thinking that I'm Ken Marschall not Kent Leighton yes I just yeah author and not Ken Marschall maritime historian maritime law maritime artist so we were having the technical difficulties when we first started up and I didn't really we didn't have time to fully introduce me who I am so hopefully you know hopefully everyone understands that this is Kent Leighton not Ken Marschall I can run alive rocks yeah everybody's like oh we was exactly Hey yeah that that brings up an interesting point about about is may I think think is may is another individual who really over the years starting all the way back in 1912 he has gotten the short end of the stick as the saying goes well because he was you know headed the company and you know basically so many others step back on the deck and let themselves die you know a lot of people these days look back and they and they say he is a worse you know they almost make him out like some kind of monster yeah and when you look at the larger picture that really is um it really doesn't represent and who is may was I always say that my favorite portrayal of his knee in the films was actually the 1979 film SOS Titanic and that's one that's kind of an obscure title a lot of people know about the 53 movie Titanic and and of course the James Cameron movie from 97 or they know and I can remember from 58 but my personal favorite the one that I I see best representing who is may was after studying his character from all of these years is SOS Titanic because it really shows the humanity behind him he wasn't a perfect guy clearly he made some decisions that he regretted later on and you know he really really caught the brunt of the blame because Captain Smith had died and Lightoller came off looking like a hero as did the other four officers and really they were I would never you know impugn their reputation and say that they weren't for Noack and what they did but really when his may steps into a lifeboat never even gets his feet wet you know a lot of people really really look at that at a negative and you can understand to an extent but at the same time is amaze no uber villain you know it was just a businessman that was really really you could tell he was excited about the Titanic he was excited about how the trip was progressing you know and he was just he loved it he was looking forward to really making a positive impression with the ship when she reached work and I just you know I didn't want to take away from the live event you know so much in the events going on but boy you know he he's really been mistreated a lot and a lot of yeah agree I want to give a quick shout out in 2012 I went to Belfast for a film festival that I answered with my film the last signals about the telegraph operators and it was it was really neat there were a bunch of other filmmakers there they were all local to Northern Ireland I was the only one from outside Northern Ireland but one of the videos struck me I think it was in the film festival maybe I found it later I hope it was in the film festival now that I gave that backstory but there's this excellent film it's also on YouTube about is May it's a very short film it's him just walking on the beach I think and there's a narration which I believe is a poem about is May and I can't quote it I can't even properly summarise it I can't even recall the title of it but it ends by saying that keep him in your prayers too for he also died that night and I asked it's very powerful and it's very true he was his life was forever altered by the events of that that crossing and at night and I've spoken with one of his Mays relatives you know and the the kind of sadness that the family still feels about the unfair portrayals of Ismay and and I'm not talking about the portrayals of him kind of like an oily businessman I mean that's that's one end of the spectrum but I've seen some portrayals that I've been astounded like wow where did they get that from you know and clearly it's um it's this long-standing bias that was whipped up in the in a newspaper shortly after the sinking and it really it took on a life of its own and his reputation never recovered it was Karen harms NASA nation on the part of the press yes 100% a couple more Super chats than we really got to get back to the timeline here Brad Walton he says you guys are heroes have tons of respect for your achievements thank you very much Brad Darth Thorne shout-out to the discord been Berlin he he says he's sitting there enjoying the evening taking a shot out of brandy and having a good time listening so thank you very much trying to scroll down I saw we just got a big 200 dollar one and I'm trying to get to it so I can read it it's not loading I'll get to it eventually so where are we in the title is Anthony Falbo thank you bow please Anthony Talib Oh 200 Wow what does he say he says I've been fascinated with the Titanic since I was 7 years old demo 3 literally brought me to tears you are all heroes for preserving this priceless piece of history bringing the ship back from the abyss to our fingertips god bless every one of you for keeping their memory alive that's what he says Anthony thank you very much that's incredible where are we making it is right now 122 a.m. so just to kind of bring everyone up to speed while we've been talking just two minutes ago at 1:20 a.m. lifeboat number 16 was launched from the portside and in three minutes at 1:25 a.m. boat number 14 which was just forward of that it's going to be lowered from the portside so we have the the evacuation of course is continuing to move forward if I can just really quick answer a question that I saw in the in the chat real quick from Justin he asked where you can find the complete and uncut version of SOS Titanic I I can't tell you where to find it when I was very young an uncle of mine recorded it for me on VHS way back in the day and he was my great uncle he recorded it for me because he knew I loved the Titanic and he gave me the VHS tape so I still have the uncut version and I'll tell anyone who's behind the production company or who knows someone who is if if they were ever interested in releasing the full uncut version of of SOS Titanic I would help them out on a heartbeat just just to mention that okay all right well there's a lot of right so you'd have to go through to do that yeah yep but that would be cool though all right so we hope we've been discussing a lot about the lifeboats leaving and what the crew are doing but let's glance over at the animation right now we have the water rising up - it's coming up towards the fo'c'sle it's probably begin to spill onto the forward well deck as I have said several times my computer is lagging terribly not just the internet but the computer itself so I see water just about reaching the forward well deck so this is about the point where the shell door would have been opening if it wasn't open already yeah I can see it in the animation you do see it yep yeah okay is it am i right it's open right now you can just see the edge of it it's dipping under the water right yeah it's emerging here's the funny thing about the Titanic you can research it as much as you want you can research various aspects of the sinking my new details little little vignettes such as the shell door or the way someone acted in a certain situation and then there's always someone who will say that didn't happen or like lights holler or during the bosun's to go down and open up the shell doors there's testimony about it but then there's also other people who will say all that never happened lights on never gave those orders would you be able to elaborate on that I don't want to put you on the spot I know you said you weren't ready for that discussion yeah I know that the the question of the shell Doris has really come into into play in the last couple years particularly because the ship's lists seemed to begin changing as those shell doors win underwater I know some some really interesting thoughts that have been brought up about that in recent years it's very intriguing to me one of the interesting things is if you go down in the wreck you can see the shell doors are open yeah so if somebody if somebody says oh that never happened okay well they ruined you know they would have for the bank was found they were saying I'm open on doors they would argue that the doors were blown open on the impact of the seafloor yeah possible but isn't it isn't it weird that they would claim before the ships wreck was found they would claim oh I sent some men down to open the doors mm-hmm and when we find the wreck those do Wars in question just happened to be open all right I can understand the argument um I get that idea but to me that's just I look because we don't have a hundred percent of the information from that night literally two thirds of the information from that night what was happening on the ship went down with the ship yeah because 1496 out of the two thousand two hundred and eight people died yeah and so we're dealing with one third of the picture when we're trying to put all of these details together and sometimes you have to kind of draw lines between what you see with physical physical evidence on the wreck with what people said they saw that night and you just kind of have to throw a dose of common sense in to the mix and and say okay well they said this this is what we see it seems like there's a direct line between the two things let me take and apply to something else doing and and sounding like know-it-alls we're good at it and so sorry I got distracted by a really loud door okay the breakup the breakup of the Titanic as the ship was in her final moments a lot of people like to argue that this ship didn't even break on the surface it broke apart below the surface but applying your same argument which is sound logic in my opinion that there were already people saying the ship broke in half before we found the rack and now here we find the wreck and it happens to be broken in half and some people are still going to try to argue that's they were wrong they didn't see it break in half but it's still broken half later exactly yeah that's my no this is something that we wanted to get into before things really started picking up speed at the very because it it'll take a couple minutes to get into it but I'll give you the short of it you know I'm not I'm not an engineer or a marine architect um I look at what people said they saw I do understand certain basic engineering principles and I've studied the design of the Titanic for many years I've studied the wreck you know the images and and the wonderful paintings that kind of michelle has done and you know I don't have access to all of the data that some people do but I kind of I like to look at the larger picture and just see first of all what did people say so when tad and Bill and I were we're doing all the research for honesty of glass we got talking about the breakup and you know there were these these kind of unusual theories out there before that point even before 2012 and I said III was talking with them and I remember saying what we need to do guys is we need to go back and we need to figure out what the survivors said they saw first of all because it's commonly accepted that most survivors said the ship sank intact but what did they really say what what are their percentages when you when you pull every account that you can find and you you put the jigsaw pieces together what are the numbers really stack up like and so this is what we did I mean tad and Bill are terrific at finding accounts or stretches of testimony and ferreting them out and I know we worked a little bit with George B he behind the scenes he was very helpful to us and there were there were others that were on the team and we started putting the numbers together okay this survivor said the ship broke this survivor said they didn't see what happened and when we put the numbers together I was astonished and I mean absolutely my jaw was slack when I discovered that the majority of survivors who spoke on the subject whether the ship sank intact or broke up said that it broke mm-hmm a number of them that said the ships settled back yes yeah then they would say things that indicator to break because now you have a flooded bow you know it's not going to defy physics and suddenly rise up out of the water on its own what else would make the stern settle back clearly you have a massive structural failure and you also have you also have these horrendous noises reported yeah does that but it also indicate a terrible structural failure of the ship to me it's remarkable that it was ever concluded the ship sank intact and yet you had a couple of very very influential people like Lightoller or like Gracie who said without a doubt the ship sank intact um okay go ahead did did you have a thought to complete oh I was just gonna say Gracie was underwater when the ship broke he was on the roof of the the gym when it went under and he didn't come up until the ship was gone so he's not in a very good position to say this ship sank intact because he was fighting for his life underwater Lightoller you have to think about the perspective of where he where he was and what he was looking at and it really he wasn't in a very good spot to see what the stern was doing so they kind of went with the minority who were rather influential and it kind of got this life of its own and we were I mean we were just totally shocked when we found out just how many people either said the ship broke or said that it gyrated in a way that would indicate that it broke yeah yeah you know it shocking numbers some of them even were so clean I remember one of them I don't remember his name off the top of my head he said that he saw the engines crash out through the side of the chip or was that at the break they said the the fan of sparks that came out as the top of the ship opened up above the level of the water it was in a fan shape and some of them even said they saw the engines slide out of the stern part nor did the folks know that might sound absolutely ridiculous and yet when you go down to the rack and you look at the reciprocating engines those massive four-cylinder reciprocating engines and you see that the front cylinder on each one of those engines is literally snapped off during the break of the ship you suddenly say whoa you know somebody really had a good pair of eyes when they when they saw that and reported you know it it really is amazing when you just look at the survivor evidence the picture that you can paint of what happened and then you take that picture of the survivors and what they said they saw because you can really come up with anything in the abstract to explain what you see in the wreck but when you take what they saw and what they reported and then you start looking at the pieces of the wreck and how the steel is twisted and distorted it is incredible the lines that you can draw between the two things and and you kind of the hair in the back of your neck stands up and you say we really have a pretty good idea of what it looked like when the ship broke and it clearly happened above the surface of the water and a lot of people saw it happen can you say anything in the direction of the Roy menga braving up theory without going into the break-up too much because I know that is a that is the most complicated subject in the entire sinking and and feel free to plead the yeah we knew about that theory that before or before we did there was the appendix and honesty of glass on this subject as I said before I am NOT a structural or a marine engineer however again I look at look at what people said they heard or saw and the real question is was the strength deck stronger and in the side shell plating at the top of the strength that was that stronger or weaker basically than the keel and double bottom for the stresses that it was the load condition that's that the hull was experiencing at that point one of the things that catches my attention is the way the the Baker it's funny I don't frequently speak these names I read them more often than I speak them I saw I'm not sure how to pronounce his name he he was in the pantry and of course he was getting a drink and he said that he felt something buckle inside the ship and he said okay it's time to get out of the pantry here and then he went up on the stern that indicates to me an ongoing series of structural failures leading up to the big event that everyone saw mm-hmm so when we were doing the break up appendix we we said let's take an illustration of something that everybody's kind of familiar with and we we went back to 9/11 which was just a few years before we released the book and one of the things that everybody could see in the video footage of the World Trade Center attack is that when the airplanes hit structures it took out a great deal of the structural strength of of those two buildings and yet what happened was the remaining structural members of the the building's held up and they took the weight until they no longer so our our way of thinking is if you have structural failures you have buckling sounds and buckling sensations being reported in deep inside the ship something's going on something is either stressed or strained or giving way but that's not the big event that everyone saw when when the ship finally broke it was visible it was obvious and the top of the ship clearly visibly opened up um was that where the break started at the top of the ship maybe not we may have some decent evidence that other things were happening deep inside the structure that you know maybe some people experience but they didn't survive or you know maybe that no one saw but right you really it was not just a limited one moment in time it was just a series of events that led up to the big catastrophic structural failure that everyone saw yes not going to dwell on this subject but in addition to what the eyewitnesses saw which kind of conflicts to the theory we'd also know people who do understand naval architecture and do understand the physics behind Titanic's breakup and they also really go against that theory of the of of mingott's breakup don't say this from a perspective of trying to discredit anyone's work yeah I was actually just about to say everyone I know that respects a person I I believe he's actually deceased but they yeah they really like the guy personally they respect his research but they disagree with this theory someone else just very briefly one of the things that really irks me is going back in with computers after the fact and it is a very don't get me wrong using computers and and the finite element stress calculators and the models that they use today it's a very useful tool but you could really stray just by relying on computers there was a there was a an expression that used to be used in computer circles years ago it was called GI geo garbage in garbage out so computers will only spit out data that is as good as the information you feed into them right and I my approach at a concept is don't just go in with computers mm-hmm look at what survived record silence I was exactly because in time after time and not just with Titanic but with other disasters to eyewitnesses will report things and the investigators are the people looking into it will say well that's insane that couldn't have happened and then they find out later on that it did yeah so my my approach is start with what people said they saw because most of them did not have any motivation to lie they were just reporting what they saw the horrific events that they experienced and they were they were telling it like they slide and you put as much of that information together and then you take the computers and you try to explain and you take the wreck footage and the pictures on the wreck and you try to explain all of that and you even go in there and you try to do physical modeling that was one thing I think was last year or the year before James Cameron did a special I can't remember the name of it on where he actually put a model in the tank and it relatively crude but it's interesting what I've talked how much I appreciate the value of physical modeling and survivor evidence and I think you can you can take all of these different lines and investigative tools and you can really get a very very good a very good picture of what happened without going all one route in where you can you can you can straight very quickly if you what really happen so just just a little side point thank you let's jump back to the timeline now yeah by the way we have we've we have almost 2800 people listening which is fantastic in fact this is this is I think more than the peak we had when we went viral with the millions of views and I doubt where we're gonna be fortunate enough to have that yet but I wanted to just say thank you everybody for tuning in obviously it's very late if you are not subscribed to our Channel please do so we post regular videos or at least we try to make them as regular as possible updates on the game some neat behind-the-scenes little vignettes or mini documentaries that we make small animations there's a whole bunch of stuff we try to keep this channel very much alive with history if not Titanic at least White Star Line or other ocean liners of the era so please do subscribe and we have we have a number of other items to store I want to also give another quick shout out to to some other people who are on our team who do not necessarily work directly on the game but instead on a marketing aspect I want to give a shout out to Zeno Silva and his wife as well as Tino over in Germany and these are our 3d printing staff and they they've prints out they print out the models that we offer for sale on our website at titanic hg comm slash store we have a fleet of ships that we are building up they're all 3d printed and then hand painted so the orders are a little slow unfortunately as a result of that but they're worth it in my opinion and there are almost all in one 1000 scale so you can order different ships compare them next to each other and see them all in the same size ratio we have the Titanic the Olympic the Britannic the nomadic the kaiser wilhelm ii and very soon as soon as we catch up on some more of these orders we're gonna be offering Lusitania the Mauritania the Aquitania the oceanic to the Republic the Baltic the Adriatic the Celtic and the ceedric so check that out thank you so much back to the time I think we should start a ship of the Month Club yes I would that would be really cool subscription it yeah yeah so so as you said kind of getting back to the timeline it's 1:45 a.m. Titanic time and things are really beginning to pick up speed here this is what we've been talking yeah things we're coming down the homestretch of what's happening here and it's becoming obvious to anyone that's left behind that even the people in lifeboats that this ship is in real trouble so 1:45 which is right now boat number two is being lowered from the port side of the ship and from boat number 13 Frederick Barrett is noticing that the forecastle is not yet under water we add I just way from that yes actually right now and the animation is depicting the struggles between lifeboat 13 and 15 so we can jump back to what you were describing but since we're actually visually seeing this right now I wanna I want to give a attention to it so you because on this was one of the horror stories of the night they came so close to losing to almost fully laden lifeboats and between those two boats you would have had I don't have the exact news the exact numbers right in front of me but you're talking about close on 120 130 people and they almost lost both boats when 15 almost came down on top of 13 and it was very very fortunate because when we were doing the research for honesty of glass that almost seemed to us we weren't sure but it looked like again you kind of drawing lines from a partial picture that maybe there was the possibility that the officer who gave the order to lower fifteen away had moved on and was leaving it in the hands of others you know what we're not sure but that was one of the things that it kind of looked possible that it had happened because down in 13 they were they were shouting up you know stop whoring fifteen basically right on top of us and nobody was paying attention and they would hear the shouts coming from the lower life but we know that Margaret Brown was able to yell up from lifeboat six to stop hook launching from with lights Haller but at that point things were calm at this point panic is starting to break out there's me writing and crying up on the decks right next to the officers whether the officer is there or not we do have good indication that the officers oversaw just the beginning walked on to the next and let their subordinates take care of it but at this point we're higher up out of the water we're actually at the point where the ship is rising and we're not forward where it's lowering so we're higher up than normal and the guys surrounded by screams as in addition to the probable sounds of the ship groaning if if that is audible over the screams at this point I think no matter what he he wasn't there's no way anyone on the deck could hear screams and shouts from a boat that far down below yeah and of course no one's you're trying to point out no one's called per se but just a horrific situation you know that started to play out and clearly no one who is lowering fifteen heard the shouts for them to stop either or understood them or else they would have stopped yeah you know so whether the officer was there through the whole thing or not you're you're absolutely right now it's different noise level and it was really no one's fault but it just gives some indication of they were trying to get these boats away so fast in so little time that yeah they almost lost those two boats and all the people in them amazing that they didn't actually yeah oh yeah there's a miracle really okay so so since we are coming down to the wire for the ship here I think we should try to stick to the timeline mm-hm and try our best to not go on two tangents if anyone is going to leave a super chat I request that for at least the next 20-30 minutes keep it relevant to the final moments of the sinking so that we can still address it but without going off-topic all right so like boats 13 and 15 are launched they have survived they're going you were saying about Frederick Barrett or was it Frederick Barrett or yep yep so go on you were saying that before I interrupted you so rudely no no that it's quite a try to me we're hey its it was it was tired to put inclination into nations that's the danger of doing it live it was so late at night already got so early that go on sorry yeah yeah so I mean here we are it's 150 Titanic time and things are really beginning to happen fast three minutes ago the steamship Baltic another White Star liner overheard a message that had been sent by Harold bride on the Titanic engine room getting flooded bride was at the key at that point because Phillips had gone out on deck to have a quick look around and he came back and he said things look really really odd out on the deck he noticed that the well deck was a watch and that the ship had a strong list of port at 150 they didn't even know the full situation which I wanted things that prompted me to make last signals the the curiousness of the fact that they're in this tiny room they they know it's sinking because they've been told to tell other ships that obviously and they're they're being given the objects engine room up to the boilers lifeboats being launched they understand that and obviously they can feel the list they can they were able to hear the steam being vented and at this point we're probably starting to hear some groans and creaks of the the wooden metal so but they but they still don't have the the full picture they don't understand the Harrow out there and they certainly don't understand that with every lifeboat that leaves their chances of survivor survival dwindles so that's that's why Philips really went out on deck has generally get some idea of what was going on and he came back and he told bride you know things are bad out there I know I'm bride went out on the deck a few times and he helps prepare collapsible B even before they threw it off the deck yep that was late in the in the disaster when they when they pulled out of the cabin and abandon the cabbage no I think he actually went out to help briefly came back in and then was surprised later to see that the boat was still there I might be mistaken that's something I haven't that doesn't ring a bell with me so maybe you caught when is something that I hadn't um I won't disagree with you and I can't confirm it either I just we would probably should get a get some info on that moving down down the growth compare some notes but another thing that just happened three minutes ago at 1:50 a.m. it's the last distress rocket had been fired a quartermaster role he then went to take charge of collapsible C and also put 150 so just three minutes ago now boats numbers ten and four were lowered from the portside and we're also coming up in just four min it's time it had 157 ships time maybe I have that wrong well in 57 a.m. ships time so that would be 12 55 art time so four minutes away okay Captain Smith came back into the Marconi cabin and he basically told Philips and Brian you know you've done everything you can I release you now and that was the same time that the Carpathia heard the last message that they have record from Titanic and that was engine room full up two boilers so one of the things that we realized when we were doing a research on time and again is that it seems as if to some extent as the chips power was beginning to fade it may have been a situation where even the range of her Wireless was beginning to kind of close in as that power behind with thank you miss I was doing that I I have we have evidence of that happening as it's it's feeding off the ship's power I believe at some point they they might have switched over to the battery set but I think I think bride told guglielmo marconi later that they were actually running off ships power most of the time but as ships power was starting to fail and get weaker and weaker their range dies down that's actually just physically how it works the more power going into it the farther it can go among other factors but that's one of the main driving forces so the fact that how the power is going it's it's you can almost watch almost linearly on a timeline here at like 11:00 or not 11:00 I'd like me a 1:30 they can reach ships 400 miles away I'm making these numbers up to prove my point but along these lines at like 140 they can read ships 100 miles away at 145 you said the Carpathia heard its final message and the Carpathia was about yeah that was at 157 157 okay well apply my statements at that time instead it was like I said I'm trying numbers to demonstrate what I mean the carp being 40 miles away here's her last message and that's because the the the power even though the power went out on the Titanic in a flash for the Marconi it was a very very very slow fade out into silence until other ships nearby thought they might have heard some faint signals they couldn't be certain can't be proven it's kind of funny like a Titanic died in both ways that a star can die either a supernova explosion or a fade out into itself no no maybe maybe that's not how cars die at forget well one of the one of the visible symptoms of the ship's fading power was that you know we know that the steam had stopped blowing off so you know that those men down in the boiler rooms have been successful at taking more and more coal out of the boilers so you have fewer and fewer boilers available to supply power the ship and outside people are saying you know the lights are that the lights are starting to get a little dimmer clearly the ship didn't have the full power that it had just a little while ago and we we really see that reflected in the sort of range of those late wireless transmissions and you know it really is a testament to how late those guys stayed behind in that Marconi Shack to keep trying to to try and get some help you know and they were in there until very very late and it put them in a very very low possibility of saving themselves it was a very selfless act to stay that late also the electrical engineers of the Titanic they were obviously down there below for the hopes to keep the lights on so that passengers would stay calm the crew could see what they're doing in the evacuation and any rescue ship could spot them but they also had on their minds the fact that the Marconi machine was their only real hope for rescue and that needed their power so they did the same exact thing they kept themselves below we kind of have this popular opinion that they all just collectively stayed below and accepted their death that's true in some cases but not on reversal II yeah I know a lot of them had been released yet of course it's very clear that others had stayed behind until very late even though they were released they they stayed behind as you say because they knew keep the lights on that'll help the evacuation that'll help keep the passengers calm and it'll keep the the wireless set going as as long as possible the real quick just real quick today I'm up in Halifax and there was a a presentation that I I was privileged to be a part of but another man in the presentation another member of the Titanic Society up here his uncle I forget his first name but it was it was mr. Irvine he was one of the engineers who stayed behind up until the very last minute to keep the power going and was lost in the sinking so that's it that's my complete thought continue yeah I mean you know it really is remarkable how late some of those some of those men stayed they they they were men who were very much motivated by duty it seems from the way they acted you know this is this is our job we're gonna stay behind we're gonna do our best for it for others and you know some some of course last I went out and others of course that day but now here we are it's it's two o'clock Titanic time right now and this was another critical moment in the sinking this is when laughs scible c is lowered away from the starboard side and this is the moment that is may probably came to regret for the rest of his life when he stepped off the deck and into the lifeboat we know that he wasn't the only one who did it there was someone else another first-class passenger who hopped in at the same time and yet it was really is made like that caught the flak for it for making that decision and so that's happening right now at two o'clock Titanic time okay what ships are in communication with the Titanic at this point I know the Olympic the Carpathia well actually no I I'm a little late with this question that's a question I like to bring up every anniversary but I'm laced because hearing her last message I shouldn't have asked this an hour ago but throughout the night up to this point we had the Olympic the Baltic which fun fact was the rescue ship for the Republic disaster which was another White Star Line wreck and was another pick for and one of the big four that's right so she was in communication I think she said she was on her way but she was just too far off to actually be useful it's just kind of neat to think that this could have been her second opportunity to be a rescue ship and then of course the Olympic being the near-identical sistership also having the potential although she was way too far off a day's journey off it's just neat which shipping route just briefly turn our attention back at somebody I mentioned that he had been ordered into collapsible C because we were just talking a minute ago about William Carter and Bruce Ismay the jury is kind of out on whether there was an order for them to get in the boat or not on it is very difficult to say for sure at this remove whether that was a you know it is very difficult to say what exactly was going on at that point but it's not quite as clear cut as um you know somebody was ordered you know into that lifeboat at that and I just figured I'd mentioned that just just to kind of clear the air the the records a little bit of a little bit gray in that in that one spot okay okay yeah I'm one of the ones who who do believe that he was ordered in I have seen some evidence but there is definitely a gray area it is one of those things where we'll never be able to say with 100% certainty exactly I have to call some attention to the super chats I also have to apologize I've had nothing but just the spinning color wheel for the last 45 minutes so I'm not seeing any updates to the chat I'm not seeing any updates to the super chat either but Emma is next to me removing the spammers and monitoring the chat as well and I can see a couple of the super chats on hers I want to give huge shout out to George or Georg actually who gave 107 euros he's saying he's doing an incredible job congratulations and he's been trying to contact us so I want I want to say thank you for your contribution and we'll try to get back to you and here he was asking if the tank top will be completely accessible during the game yes it will be a whole ship the whole ship and when we say the whole ship we mean the whole ship and a broom closet right every last closet that's right well the access passages we'd like to be able to let you get into the inspection holes and the double keel the double bottom there's everything everything we can it's a little insane but yeah everything we can do and we're gonna try to recreate and much of the sinking is possible and I'd like to III I'd like to also mention a neat fact about the actual production of the game I've mentioned we've been working with a professional producer who has made Triple A games in the past we've been receiving some criticism by some of the people who have been following the progress saying that we're a little too ambitious can't build the whole ship can't have all the passengers whatever and I have to admit up until we started working with this producer wasn't always 100% confident that we could pull everything off but in talking with him not only am i confident that we can once funded but he's actually been suggesting we raise the bar even further let's put some more stuff in and this is this is a man who prides himself on his projects having been delivered on time and on budget so once this is funded I have high hopes and I have high expectations very good catch oh it's exciting yeah yeah I just don't want to over promise I don't want to I don't want to say the specifics we've been talking about because I don't want to over promise we're still working on backing still but we're also working on a few other side partnerships which will hopefully grease the wheels all right couple super chats we have a $10 1/2 the dome really collapse as portrayed in the James Cameron film I believe it did I think Gracie was a witness to that archibald Gracie but Kent can you speak to that matter yeah this is a another one of the hot-button topics not everybody wants to believe that we kind of learned anything from a movie set sinking into a tank and to some extent I can I can understand that but as you say there were people who saw you know parts of the ship that appeared to be in the the dome in the staircase area you know and then again you look at the wreck and you look at the supports for the the upper levels of the grand staircase that seem to be displaced whereas the lower ones are still more in place and you kind of again you kind of draw lines between the two things you you see that they stay that they built the set for the ninety seven movie very similarly to the the way the original was actually built square it I had a steel frame and then the old staircase was on it wasn't some cheesy movie prop it was actually a pretty solid staircase and they didn't expect it to break up when they started agitating the water and putting water really moving quickly and yet yeah that's what happened it really caught them off guard and then look you take that batch of the wreck and what's survivors said they saw in the water that night and again you can't say for sure we're drawing lines in areas that have some room for interpretation but I personally am convinced that when the set broke up when they were filming the movie that really gave us a solid clue on what actually happened at night that's I I really I really feel that that is pretty solid thank you another one George Gregory Gregory 19.12.2011 you are absolute heroes thank you for preserving history I have watched your project for years now this is our future as historians to help keep the Titanic alive thank you very much and I don't know if I don't I don't think I'd call it heroes but I certainly wouldn't call us heroes should say but if we can use this project to tell the story of heroes I will be very happy that is one of my goals here I've always wanted to tell stories of heroism and there were many heroes on the Titanic that night men and women passengers and crew first second third class the ones who were heroes and survived saved themselves saved their friends and families safe two complete strangers and then of course the other heroes who who saved others but did not save themselves there's so many heroes that night that I I'd like to preserve the stories of as many of them as as possible they were they were the real heroes you know in putting their lives on the line for others I would call you guys and your team and the work you're doing pioneers you're really at the forefront of trying to tell a historical story in a in a format that's frequently used just for entertainment purposes you're trying to convey a history you know so I would definitely call you guys pioneers in what you're doing and I my my personal you know I really appreciate that you're you try to get things right you know that's it's so important to you guys to make sure you're doing it right and that's that's what I really enjoy you know working with you guys even behind the scenes or in our conversations you know if yeah yeah I got to give you props on that well what makes us able to do that are people like you and and Bill Sauder Park Stevenson Ken Marschall and and many others who we either communicate with regularly or occasionally when a specific topic comes up so we wouldn't be able to do this without the investment of time and trust from the respected historians who have done much of this research we don't research that much I mean we do buy a lot of the stuff we do is is building off of the groundwork laid by others so it's a team effort it's absolutely if you wanna find that fine line come here we are it's to 11:00 a.m. collapsible D has now been lowered away and the work has really begun on getting the last two collapsibles down off the roof of the officers quarters in fact we see that in the video right now we see collapsible a on the starboard side coming down out of the deck and this is kind of a good opportunity for us to kind of pause and address a something that we discovered with on a sea of glass about Thomas Andrews and briefly you know it very very often he's portrayed as being in a smoking room at the end kind of in a daze and in a sort of shock and not really handling things very well but one of the things we discovered from doing some digging on that is that really that's not where he met his end Thomas Andrews was actually last reported from some good eyewitnesses on the bridge with Captain Smith and I mean we're looking at this right now at the bridge of the ship as it's coming into the water in Captain Smith I was overheard to say to aunt Enders it's no use waiting any longer she's going and at that point you know they were seen going over the the rail together from the from the bridge wing you know so this is about to happen in real time and that's that's a long-standing myth about how Andrews met his fate and it's a good opportunity for us to pause and reflect on you know what was really going on now here in any animation things are going to start happening real fast we see on the port side we see collapsible B being pushed to the edge of the deck and they're about to lose control of it at which point it'll land upside down on the deck you know as she said earlier Tom you know this they they'd certainly had the means to get the boats down off the deck but in this situation it was not it not a not a very a very good scenario to try to be working with under these circumstances right and I also want to make a quick comment as you're narrating what is going on you're watching the live video which is about of a 20 second delay so don't try to sync up your words with with what you're seeing and try to try to jump a little bit of ahead good point all right so yeah this a lot of stuff is gonna go by very very fast as we mentioned earlier they tried attaching these to collapsible boats to the false ends of the davits and then trying to swing them out but they were also especially with collapsible a on the starboard side they were they were not organized they had they were trying to pull the lifeboat over to the side so they can launch it but at the same time other crew men were loading the like folks on the deck with the intentions of floating it off yeah and so the added weight of people in the boat made it even harder to drag the boat across the deck and which of course they they never succeeded in doing and then the weight of the people on the boat to float off okay and made them lose a little bit of balance gets swamped half flip dumped everyone out and then it was just a mad scramble to to get back into the boat of which very few women and children survived there's the famous story of the Allison family and first clacks and there are accounts that's the quick back story the Allison family was in first class they were Canadian and they were traveling home and they had a three-year-old daughter an 18 month old son the son went missing it was taken by the nanny and taken straight to a lifeboat throughout most of the sinking the parent and three-year-old otter scoured the whole ship trying to find their baby not even thinking that it went straight to a lifeboat and then by the time they decided all right we got to save our daughter the boats were gone and she was the only first-class passenger first-class child killed in the sinking there were no other first-class losses for children and there were zero second-class children lost but there's an account or even two that they actually made it's a collapsible a Lorraine the daughter and mrs. Allison actually made it a collapsible a but were thrown out of it when it's semi flipped I've heard anything about this that aspect of my memory is a little fuzzy it doesn't ring a bell for me but I'm not I won't say it's impossible um it's very well could be that I just haven't come across that or have forgotten it you know so that forgive me for not being able to comment specifically on that particular one but you know at this point it's pure chaos what's happening on the deck you have Gracie and his friend Clint Smith running aft on the starboard side there you have we just saw the first funnel collapse the second funnel is about to go you have jacks there also on the starboard side of the deck about to leap with his friend Milton long as shipboard acquaintance Milton long on now you've got water covering the the midships portion of the boat deck I mean this is really the moment of truth when people who had been able to deny up to this point when the waters on the deck that the ship was actually thinking they were able to say you know she seems relatively stable even if she's listing here now there's water on the deck and it is all control is lost and now it really is every man for himself someone in a super chat had asked if the falling of the forward funnel and the hole left behind by it added to the influx of water and increase the the speed of the sinking absolutely yeah it's it's a good question I mean you've got at this point you've got so many openings in the hole so many windows yeah it's it's going you're not looking at a huge time difference but I should say yeah I mean the more the more openings you've got the more water is going to be coming in right yeah and we can really see things progressing quickly here it is 2:17 2:18 a.m. so we're lagging a little bit in the video but at this point the the ship splits I split the most of the lights fail we actually found some evidence and we're going to sea of glass like he already seconds in the video yep we found some evidence that perhaps some few of the lights might've stayed on after the breakup that's that's a really interesting nugget that we found in a couple of I witness accounts but certainly the majority of the lights went out with it when a ship broke up and if we're really the I've worked with parks and sin and Bill Sauder on the on the lights remaining on after the breakup and they've also got some excellent evidence on that yeah so it's you guys are finding that those guys are finding it we're definitely going to be depicting in fact we haven't updated animation of the sinking even more updated than this one which shows that yeah yeah the evidence John is is is definitely firm enough to say yeah that that's the way it happened the emergency lights it's not like random cabin mow nights and deck lights stayed on this would have been a specific power supply coming from a specific generator which was still above the water exactly you you've got you hit the nail on the head with that so I mean this is you know anyone in the lifeboat would see the the lights on the music by now is is and stopped you know the the ship's turn is clearly coming out of the water the bow is half the ship is gone more than half the ship this is this is a nightmare that no one could have imagined just three hours before and they're watching this play out they they have friends or loved ones back on the decks of the ship and there's nothing they can do and here now the lights are failing in the video of course in real time it's 2:20 which is the accepted time at the ship sank you know so this really is the end I I got to save us talking the time has really gone fast as we've discussed you know these things and we just stop for a second we say all three more lifeboats have gone or where this is happening that has happened it is these are probably some of the most scrutinized three hours in history and you know it really is remarkable too if you were there that night and you were experiencing it it went fast yeah absolutely all right well the ship is just about gone now she's on her absolute death throws the poop deck is submerging and we're losing we've lost the Titanic now yep there's a go ahead at this point we now have 1500 there abouts swimming around thrashing in the sea well 1,500 - the ones who never even got out of the ship yeah thrashing around screaming for help there's 20 lifeboats that have gotten away two of them are probably still in the crowd the two collapsibles and then the the other 18 have wrote a relatively safe distance away and they're hearing these agonizing cries knowing that they're their friends these are their husbands and and fathers and Suns being mostly men but of course there's also women and children in it there so now they're faced with the agonizing question do we go back and it's one of those terrible triage style questions which who do you treat first in like a war situation who do you give the attention to and obviously most of them are making the right decision of you're safe in a lifeboat you put yourself in jeopardy going back and in a panicked crowd of over a thousand people drowning I mean most of them died of freezing but but when you when you go out to when you're a lifeguard and you go out to rescue a a person who's drowning you have to do it very carefully they take you down with them it's the same rule applies right here when you have over a thousand people who are drowning or at least think they're drowning but they're actually going to freeze a lifeboat no matter how big can be pulled under very quickly and very easily and now all you've done was simply kill the people who were safe before that yeah even if it's not pulled under just upset you know just turned over on its side and half the people are out in the half the water you know half the boat is filled with water and you know that that's not gonna help anyone the water was so cold that if your feet or legs were in it you know they became numb with in just seconds or minutes and then hypothermia begins to set in even if most of you was out of the water just because it was that cold it this is as you say it's one of those one of those subjects that it's disturbing they have to to make that decision but yeah even just having a little bit of water in the lifeboats would would seriously change your probability of survival as far as I'm aware if you were in a lifeboat you were safe for the most part if you got pulled out of the water that's a different story but if you got into a lifeboat and were launched from the ship without touching the water you were safe I don't believe anyone was lost in in that situation but if you were in a lifeboat that had any water in it that flooded to some degree or if you were pulled out of the water even into a dry lifeboat your chances were significantly reduced people were dying left and right in collapsible a which was flooded people were dying left and right on top of collapsible B which was overturned and made up entirely of passengers who climbed out of the lifeboat yeah out of the water onto the lifeboat I think it's funny too I compared the two and you would think the collapsible B would have been the worst of the two collapsibles in the water and yet with light tillers how old you know trying to get that boat organized a little bit it was bad but when I read about what happened in collapsible a to me that that was really even more disturbing you know how it you know I don't think you could any of us could possibly imagine what these individuals were going through until you live it yourself I mean it we did some research on how long would a person lasts in water that cold and the statistics are shocking how quick even if even if you just get a little wet um you know how if you can't get warmed up fast your chances of survival are so low and some of them would according to what we found would would have perished on in contact with the water from heart failure you know and in some ways perhaps that was a a little bit of um in some ways maybe a little less of a horrific way to go quickly I guess but you know those who survived and we're struggling in the sea I mean I don't even like to think about it myself what that must have felt like for them and how they how they went even light dollars description of just making contact with the water feeling like a thousand knives being you know stabbed with a thousand knives it must not have been a very pleasant experience today really is almost too awful to think about what those individuals went through it is you can't even speak to each other when you're when you're in that water um I did a movie a while back with a friend and we had a scene where we had to jump in water a pond and we had lines we rehearsed we memorized to say to each other and the water was 37 degrees Fahrenheit so not Titanic it was not a titanic water it was close it was very very close was the dead of winter but it was it was close it was warmer actually and we jumped in yeah our plan was jumping cameras rolling say the lines to each other get out as quickly as possible so we're not freezing water the lines were gone from our mind and we couldn't speak our teeth were chattering we tried saying things to each other and it was just mumbles we couldn't even understand what the other one was saying and we couldn't even process it even if it was coherent we went through like three takes and then we decided this is not happening and we went back to my house and we had a shower I have two showers by the way so when each jumped in one separate showers and you know what we did we had cold showers and it burned huh so it was now yeah not much of a temperature difference but the the it's unbelievable to imagine what that would have been like and I think it'sit's a little bit of perhaps merciful it's a little bit merciful I hate to say it but it kind of is that at least freezing supposedly is a peaceful death now I know you can certainly argue that it's not peaceful when you're in the middle of the Atlantic surrounded by over a thousand others who are screaming for help but it is it's not painful aside from the shock supposedly I don't know I don't know anyone who died of the cold and then could talk about it yeah but still most of Titanic's dead were from the cold yeah I said not so much to drowning no Vincent pressure before before you drown I don't know that's conjecture it one way or another it it was not a not a pleasant way to go it if I if I could things kind of happened so fast in the latter part of the sinking in the 212 to 220 period you know there was so many things going on at some point I wouldn't mind coming back there were a lot of questions and the chat about the funnels and why they fell so at a point you know when you when you feel appropriate I wouldn't mind getting back to that and talking about that for a couple minutes but I want to you know take the conversation at your pace but that's why we go just to go to the to the coming hour which is always a good 40 loss of the ship so yeah there's always questions that come in and then there's always some recapping but just a couple of the lifeboats did go back there were I say a couple even though only one actually made it back there were other lifeboats that made the effort to go back but they had rowed too far away from the Titanic that they didn't make it back yeah it was life above 14 under the command of grumpy ol officer Lowe who went back he first lashed his lifeboats to two other ones and emptied his passengers into the empty seats of those other boats and that he basically took a skeleton crew back to the to the site of the disaster unfortunately that lost so much time in the transfer of passengers and then the rowing back that by the time he got there they were all dead they managed to pull out what was the number four or five the exact number escapes me I think you're think you're right in the ballpark there yeah yeah it was it was a small handful they managed to pick up a few more few survivors including a Chinese passenger who was am third-class do you call him offhand uh not off the top of my head I do have it somewhere but I can't remember it yeah that's the thing there's so much so many little nuggets of information about this disaster he can't memorize at all but there's actually a documentary coming out about the shinies all the Titanic that we had the opportunity to assist with so that's that's pretty much like they picked him up they picked him up there was actually a little bit of racism on the part of officer Lowe he was a little disappointed that they went back and found a as he's yes I remember him saying that yeah but officer Lowe gained respect for the man he picked him up and he said the guy dried himself off he warmed himself up a little bit with a blanket and then he jumped on and on an or and then lo said that he ended up being one of my best sailors I would have saved the man ten times over yeah all right yeah so one quote I always ended on it's a it's a couple things actually in in the inquiry one of the officers was asked to describe the screams and he just refused he seems to have broken down right there I can't you're the expert on the inquiry here but do you recall that I remember some of the survivors trying to describe it one that stands out in my mind was I it was recounted in a documentary of someone who lived near a baseball field later in life after the Titanic disaster yeah and he said that it the screams sounded very much like when someone would hit a home run and the audience and the baseball stadium would all stand up and Cheer he said that always reminded him of the sound Holmes that night there were individuals who remembered hearing specific expressions people you know what a voice that would stand out from the rest you know help save one life many many things like that are remembered and it must have been very overwhelming I think people in 1912 they weren't always as accustomed to shocking events as we are today for us today a plane crash or a derailment or a ship sinking or I mean people have been through world wars since the Titanic sank no one had ever heard of such a thing in 1912 and I think we kind of tend to go oh okay you know it's a plane crash or it's a train derailment and we kind of are accustomed to that in our minds but back in 1912 a lot of these people they had never experienced anything like this a mass casualty event I believe is the term that they used nowadays and here they are they go from their warm bunks on a safe ship to three hours later they're freezing cold in a lifeboat and they're hearing the voices of hundreds of people who had just been on the ship with them and some of whom they clearly knew or related to you know husbands you mentioned before husbands fathers sons people who had been separated in in the in the evacuation and they didn't know if that their friends or family had survived and now they're sitting here in the dark it's pitch black and they're hearing hundreds of people screaming you know in the water and that anyone who was there that night they they always seemed in their in their later accountants or when they were interviewed for TV they that kind of always was what got them they they could talk about it right up to that point and at that point you know their voice would kind of crack and they would kind of involuntarily shut her and they didn't really want to talk about it and I just saw in the sidebar someone mentioned Franco Samantha's the one with the ballpark I couldn't remember his name off the top of my head when I was talking and that person was right I remembered now was Frank goldsmith when he was so that was a very observant listener but it was it was a horrific event and it really stayed with everyone it you did not get off the Titanic and not have your life changed even if he survived even if all your friends survive even if all your loved ones survived your life was different afterwards because of what you'd experienced all right well thank you very much for that that summary that was a fantastic yeah better than I could have done thank you knowing better gave $20 and says he appreciates the effort we're putting into this keep it up thank you very much for that I think now is the is the best time for you to tackle some of those funnel questions that you wanted to jump on and in the meantime I want to sorry another super chat from Kay correcting herself or himself sorry can't can't tell by the name saying that Frankie was in third class not second so thank you very much for the for the tidbit of info and thank you for the correction jump on the questions you wanted to talk about with the funnel and in the meantime I invite other people to come in with more questions yes um one of the I saw a number of questions actually in the chat of people asking what actually caused the funnels to fall and this has been a subject of a lot of scrutiny and you know a lot of back-and-forth you know was it this wasn't that one of the things that we when we were looking at at the subject for honesty of glass we realized that because of the rake of the funnels it was it was turned to rake the way they were tipped back by a certain amount to aid with the the gases being brought out by the wind escape gasses from the combustion below because of that rake toward the stern and as the ship had settled down at the bow it actually made those funnels stand a bit more straight in the water you know they were they were accustomed to having that slight rake toward the stern and they were actually much more vertical I can see it in the video now there we've actually had some comments in our videos of people complaining that we tilted the ship but not the funnels they assumed models were upright all the time and then when the ship leans forward the fact that they're still upright it's it's just a very odd correction that some people send in I'm sorry no no that's that's a really good point to make because uhm visually when the ship is on an even keel you don't really notice the rake of the funnels as much you kind of get used to it and your mind kind of corrects for it but that was actually a very carefully calculated angle that helped the wind as the ship move forward through the water it would help lift the smoke away from the decks on these ships so as the ship was going down by the nose it was and that forward trim was increasing those funnels actually as you can see in the video here they were basically in a for after action they were almost vertical so it wasn't that the the gyrations of the ship for aft were what caused the funnels to fall some suggested that it was too much strain on the the guy-wires I've heard that before I don't tend to agree with that assessment personally just because when your structure is standing straight there's going to be less stress on it even perhaps and when it is you know the ship's on an even keel and let's brake toward the stern a little bit and you have forward wind pressure against it Lightoller many years later said that the forward expansion joint had opened yeah the forward expansion joint is open on the wreck today some of the guy wires did cross that expansion joint whether or not that was a factor is still you know out kind of the jury's out on it but if your guy wire is not if it's not under stress because the the funnel is almost straight on that's going to be a bit bit reduced I know that Edward Wilding who was one of the higher-ups at Harland and Wolff he worked with Thomas Andrews and and he was questioned extensively at the British inquiry for his technical knowledge I mean he really knew the Olympic and Titanic he believed that it was actually the because the funnels they look strong but they're actually remarkably fragile structures right he believed that it was actually the water pressure and the turbulence so as the base of that funnel the forward funnel there it goes down into the water there's a lot of turbulence of water outside water perhaps coming up inside you you know and a lot of that really just hit wrong and that seems to have been the factor in both of the forward funnels going more than perhaps the guy wires or the expansion joint it was the waters there the waters turbulent you have a myriad of different forces all interacting with each other on some very fragile structures and the funnel ghost as we see in the video there and the number two funnel also stayed in place until its base was under water so seeing is how Edward Wilding was so familiar with the way those ships were designed I tend to agree with the assessment that he made that the forward two funnels probably collapsed because of their their interaction with the water as their bases went into the water what's also interesting to me is that the numbers three and four funnels stayed put well past the time that the numbers 1 & 2 finals fell and they went through even more solid gyrations you know the the angle was even increasing of the ship and yet they stayed put until about the time - the ship broke and of course at that point we know that in the area of the break the structure of the ship was very much compromised and there's some pretty solid evidence that the number-3 funnel kind of went forward and that the number-four funnel went aft at that point so so those were some really good questions some people were asking and I wish we had had time to to really address it in real time but you know things were going so fast you know those those were some of the different forces and things to keep in mind about what caused the funnels to fall questions specifically for you yeah Lucas s asks what are your thoughts on Tim Moulton's cold air Mirage theory I per se that's an excellent question I'm familiar with the Mirage effect it was noted on other ships not not on the night the Titanic sank I'm referring to it was a pretty well known phenomenon at sea the things could look upside down or obscured I III won't dismiss it because I know no it was a real optical effect that happened it's at sea I do also look at the accounts of some of the officers who had been at sea for many years and who didn't report seeing anything even remotely resembling that you know I think I can't remember which officer it was but or whether it might even have been one of the surviving passengers maybe Beasley I can't remember off the top of my head but someone remembered that night that the air was so fine they you could watch a star setting on the horizon and you could actually watch the line of the horizon split the star as it would settle on the horizon so the Mirage theory is a very intriguing one it certainly would explain a lot of some of the optical things that were reported perhaps even with the Californian I'm not I'm not saying that for sure but it would if it was a real observed event that night however on the other hand of the equation it wasn't widely reported from survivors on the Titanic including the officers I personally would think if if Lightoller or any of the other surviving officers pretty much everybody had had a good reason to kind of say it wasn't my fault um you know I did my best it wasn't my fault and if they were aware of such an optical optical situation happening I would have thought they would have been very very quick to blame it for not seeing the iceberg sooner or or what-have-you but at this point I'm not willing to say yes or no on that okay I'm aware of the theory and I'm not willing to dismiss it out of hand but it's something that I personally want to look into a bit more and I'm aware that the Mirage theory is a very real thing that happens with ships so a to answer that specific question I won't come down hard either way right now without without doing some more legwork on it how does that sound like a fair answer that's a that's a very responsible answer I think okay I always prefer it when someone says I don't know then jumps to a decision without all the evidence people do that too much these days Matt Ward says that he has your unseen mauritania and unseen Aquitania books and he very white joins them yes so you have a ton of people out here who know you or at least know your work if they might not recognize your name they definitely know your books so do you have any other specific questions you want to address that you might have seen because if not I actually have something I wanted to talk about for a little what do you go why don't you go first I it's getting late here on the East Coast again yeah I won't be able to stick around for too much longer we're scheduled to sign off in 12 minutes yeah well I race you go ahead then and then we'll see where things go all right well just plug your books straight up I want it looks because we have it we have a great audience right now and I personally recommend most of your books I don't have all of them I have I I don't necessarily read books in their entirety if it's a reference book I generally go in looking for specific things or I do in a section that's relevant to what I'm working on at the moment but I personally recommend several of them i unsee Lusitania was you correct uh no that that was Eric Eric Sadr that they don't seem Lusitania I did Lusitania an illustrated biography okay that was we really step back in 2010 that's amazing it was that long ago now I really appreciate the props you know and I very much appreciate I've been noticing in the sidebar a lot of people say that they have you know this book or that book that I wrote one thing that I will say to that is I've always loved Titanic anyone who knows was my story I tell it freely it was my got me hooked on it when I was just two three four years old he came back with a big scale model of ship and that was the project that he and I that was our project together um yeah that's that's how it all came about I hop even I can remember I still have and I I read it so many times as a child that the binding literally fell apart on it dude stop stop what stop cuz why not you're stealing my story here when I was three my dad had the one 350 scale Titanic he already built it but then broke and I used to put the pieces back together I didn't know what it was but and I didn't know how they actually went but I would just try to figure it out and then he let me he actually gave me Ballard's discovery of Titanic and then I watched a mood the movie a night sermon and this week yep was still free 97 then the 97 film yep so that's what got me in at about the same age the scale model from my dad and then a night to remember for me it was the mood but for you was the book but yeah and of course I I had the movie too because um of course that was when I'm probably dating myself a little bit here but that was when beta and VHS tapes were all the rage and these movies would play and my parents of course they dad was a super super Titanic not ever since he was a kid and he taught me everything he knew about it and so that would Titanic was really our thing I grew up on raised the Titanic I loved the score for that by John Barry and you know it just hooked me as a kid and it I was fascinated with a lot of different aspects of it but it was always my dream to write about the Titanic but what I will say is that any of the books that I have written that have just my name on the cover or or any of the group projects that I have done like honesty of glass with Bill worm stead and tad Fitch those books would not have been in what they were in the end if it hadn't been for the assistance and support of so many people along the way um you know I I have worked with some tremendous people over the years who you know they give from their own collection for pictures because everybody likes pictures and you know Titanic pictures are expensive and you know I I go to these guys and I say hey no this is what I'm doing and they say here you know take what you want they're always ready when I when I contact them with a question you know refresh my memory please I thought I remembered reading this but and you know people like George B he I can go to George B he liked that and he he messages his back so fast and he's like oh it was says he's got like this photographic memory that it just but my point is you know there's a lot of people to kind of give me a shout out for being um you know for being here but I I stand with a team you know I work with people and sometimes their names are on the cover like with honesty of glass tad and Bill and I we we pour our blood sweat and tears into finishing that book and sometimes their names don't get out in the cover sometimes its contributors or or people who just say you know I'll help you out and I know that's the same thing with you guys I enjoy working with you guys and it has become like this community thing where all these people who love Titanic you know they're they're eager to see what you guys are doing and I'm eager to help you guys you know as much as I possibly can it it really isn't about ego it's about it's about what happened to the people that night and it's about trying to tell their story in the best possible way as intact as in violet as we possibly can make it at a remove of a hundred and seven years you know with the information that we have available to us I it isn't about sensationalism it isn't about trying to sell books it's about trying to maintain and expand our knowledge of of what happened you know to the Titanic and that's that's a group effort and I've really enjoyed working with so many people you know marks her inside I'm Sam Halpern Yanis you know so many others um and I just I really enjoy tackling things as a team and that's why I really enjoy being part of this I I'm incredibly honored that you guys invited me to be here tonight and to be able to to share some of the things that I've learned over the years and to kind of discuss things in real time it's it was a privilege so thank you very much for that well we're honored to have you I gotta say I very much liked not being the one talking the whole time that's nothing against the other guys I'm sorry I don't want it to come off as that but you did an excellent job narrating the story and I enjoyed listening and I learned quite a bit no it was high fashion yeah this was I think it we enjoy the story we enjoy commemorating the story we enjoy remembering the people who survived and who died but it's it's things like this where you you get together and you you look at things and you get fresh perspective and you you go over the historical accounts and you look at what happened that's where that's where you expand your knowledge that's where you say you know I understand this now for the first time and I gotta say it was a really awesome experience and I hope to be able to do this again with you guys at some point in the future yeah I'd love to have you back on again even if it's not for the commemoration but just as a live discussion about a yes topic I think that would be great and I'm looking forward to to working with you on the the subjects you and I have discussed about researching for the game all right so it's just about time to go just a real quick summary I would I would strongly recommend on a sea of glass by Jay Kent Layton here as well as tad Fitch and Bill we're set it's an excellent detailed summary of the chronology of the voyage and the sinking as well as plenty of other things it is the one of the ultimate references for all things Titanic it is just about time to wrap up I want to thank our viewers especially if this has been a very long stream this is always a very long stream but I appreciate people especially the ones who make this an annual tradition to tune in to us and join the discussion and listen to our stuff and watch our animation we had we peaked at over 3,100 viewers at one time I won't be able to see how many total viewers we've had tuned in until after the stream is over but definitely thank you to everyone especially thank you to the foes who sent in super chats for contributions through the website during the stream or purchased one of the models there were like 10 model orders that came in the last three hours you can see why we're backed up but thank you very much for all of the support I always enjoy it I always enjoy hearing people's comments or reading people's comments and hearing the feedback and you know this is always this is always a chore every year but it's it's a good chore it's a very enjoyable one that's that's rewarding in the end too to be able to participate with everybody and and see the the enjoyment we all get from just getting together every anniversary and reliving it Matt Kyle you guys haven't said much miss you guys over there I mean you want to start I don't even think Matt's here oh I'll I'll just say that what I've been showing fertile s obviously after the the the sinking I did I showed a few little background things for the original real time animation the timeline a little bit of a timeline scrubbing keyframes a few different weird views and then what I've been showing for the last few minutes is the model that will be used in a future version of real-time animation which hopefully you'll get to see in the future another super chat from Georg I think that's how you pronounce it Mike if I remember my German class correctly who gave 1912 euros will there be accurate celestial connections in the game sky and are you including the circumstance that it was the closest approach to the moon of the moon to the earth in more or less 1400 years so a throwback to the moon in the beginning of the animation today but yeah an answer to your to your real question we will have accurate stars we and we don't have it yet because while it's easy to get the data it's hard to put it into the beginning engine we'll get there it is now 3 a.m. I want to thank you all for coming and I appreciate it good night everybody ok good night you
At this pace, this game will be released in about 15 to 20 years, if not more. Improving on 3D models at this scale is hard, granted, but at this point the sheer lack of interations, game logic and loops and characters on the action just underscores the fact that few are willing, or even capable of accept: these guys don't have nor the skills - both on software development and on money hunting - nor the awareness to accept their very own problems and limitations, both things equally necessary at this point to deliver anything remotely close to what they have been promising for the last SEVEN years.
An word of advise, if you don't really know how software is made, and games specifically, but have been suportive of the project and interested on the concept to the point of contributing financially to the idea: stop. You are just wasting money and time on a quixotic journey to slay a nonexistent windmill.