Thomas Sowell and Roger Ailes

in addition to a long list of popular and Lerner dry tting 'he's thomas ol writes a syndicated column and a biweekly column for forbes his latest book the vision of the anointed presents a devastating critique of what he considers the failed social policies of the last 30 years economist social critic author thomas ol Tom could see continued how are you pretty good how would you be as president I just said I made that up because I love your writing and I love the way you'd think would you be a good president probably not I'd probably get in peace because I would go ahead and do what I got some of this stuff I do what I think is right and those who didn't think it was right would do otherwise well you're a former I heard you were in the Marine Corps yeah so you must have decision-making ability as well right well I've made decisions if that's what you mean what would you do first is president oh my gosh oh yeah that's it you wouldn't know somebody you wouldn't know where to start yes it's like the old story of the mosquito in a nudist colony there's so much there you don't know where to start alright the the vision of the anointed now that's a that's an interesting title who are the anointed they are the elite and the media in the Pauline politics all of those who think that third parties ought to be making people's decisions for them the subtitle is self-congratulation as a basis for social policy in other words people who think that everything that's wrong with the economy the country is due to the fact that other people are just not as smart as they are and if only they could you know all people like them could take over and make our decisions we'd be so much better off but in the early in early America didn't this sort of educated class make the decisions for everybody as far as governmental does yeah but the government itself didn't make the decisions for everyone now you know you you can't decide where your kids going to school you can't decide whether or not they can move a a halfway house for drug for drug users next door to you or what not it's out of your control the government decides that's right the government decides too many things they decide also how your children will be raised you may have an idea about how what age children should be introduced to sex and in what manner with what kind of moral commitment I mean as a parent you have a parent a parent yes the schools have taken that over by the time you even think about it they've already had years you know sure passing out condoms to these kids is not it not even half of it they're showing motion pictures of naked couples engaging in sex both homosexual and heterosexual in the seventh grade and if you complain about it that's that's considered to be censorship you don't you you can't pull your kid out of school and say they don't have to put up with this stuff I guess you could but you'd be well if you have a private school to put him in but you have compulsory attendance laws and if you don't have the money for private schools then you're stuck where did this country get off the track and decide but the federal government should make most of our decisions well it started to some extent in the New Deal but I think the 1960s is sort of the golden age if you want to put it that way of this whole mindset and that's what the books about it's about a mindset it's not about a series of policies but of showing how in policy after policy those who think a certain way will try to take over other people's decisions how do you characterize the liberal philosophy today from the conservative philosophy well that's a tough one I guess the main thing about the Liberals again is that they think a program will do it if there's something that they don't like in the society you have to set up a program and I will solve the problem I think one of the things that one of the words they use a lot is solutions and I argue a year and elsewhere that there are not there are no solutions there were just trade-offs so for example when Ralph Nader launched his attack against the Corps they are at many years ago he said it's an unsafe car and it does the has these safety problems and those safety problems and in some respects the other he was correct not all but the fact is there are other things that a Corvair would do that made it safer than other cars and on net balance it was as safe as the rest of are you saying there are no solutions to our problems as Americans there are no solutions to anybody's problems there are trade-offs you know safety is a classic example every every every year so many hundreds of thousands of people are vaccinated against measles smallpox those kinds of things now this saves and that's several hundred lies that it's estimated it also causes brain damage to about 30 kids a year now there are no solutions in that there were just trade-offs what about crime take crime as an issue can we solve the crime issue or fundamentally solve it so it's reduced well then that that's a trade-off you know you know you don't solve what there will always be crying there always has been but you want to keep it down to some level it's not the astronomical thing we have today for example the people the Liberals right now is saying you know crime has eased off in New York and that's true there were there were six times as much crime in New York a few years ago as there was in 1960 now it's down to five times as much crime as there was 1960 now that's not what I regard as a great as a great as a great trend unless it continues a lot more liberals think we need more education and we need to help people in the inner city more to cut down crime they're conservatives would say we have to be tougher on crime is either of them correct oh I I don't know it was you see well the conservative view is really not it's not a solution it's a it's a trade-off it says yes it would be wonderful if we could do all these things to prevent crime in the first place we just don't happen to be that smart and so what we do we put people behind bars who commit violent crimes now a few years ago in East Palo Alto which is not far from Stanford University a minority community low income they had the doubtful distinction of being the murder capital of the United States and proportion of their population the next year murder and all sorts of other violent crimes dropped from minutes now 30 40 50 percent in one year now that wasn't because they discovered the root causes of crime well because they worked out everything was wonderful they launched the campaign that put a lot of the bad guys behind bars and when they were behind bars they didn't commit as many crimes since and the thing that that this more closely you know even in a high crime area the great majority of the people are not criminals and so if you can just put your hands on those people who are raising all the hell in the community and take them out of circulation the crime rate drops people say there's undue emphasis on african-americans for committing crimes is that true I wrote an all a column here that the population is 25% african-american in New York 62 percent of the crimes are committed by African Americans is that a and he saw having I haven't checked this figures but all but yeah throughout the world was that this is this is not unusual throughout the world people are disproportionately represented in all kinds of different things and it's true it obviously in basketball it's true in all kinds of other things the main thing is not is not to keep people out of jail because they have one race and another because when you do that the people who are going to be suffer the most will be the black community where are you on affirmative action against why well you can only do one of two things you can either just judge people individually or you can judge them by groups this whole notes that you're going to come out with a compromise I would defy anybody to come up with a compromise on that you're going to do one of those two things now you can pretend to be doing other things but that's all you're gonna do it that's those are the only two choices you really have in the end again the people who are the anointed think of this as a symbolic issue and they want to be on the side of the angels they don't ask what are the consequences now I've studied affirmative action programs around the world one of the consequences is that those people who are more fortunate in the group that has the preferences those people take the lion's share the preferences very often those are the other end of the scale poorer people I actually fall further behind that's true a Blackshear it's true of melees in malaysia it's true average groups in India on their reasons for that you know that you can say you must have certain proportions nothing is easier than for an employer who would who might otherwise locate let's say in the Bronx to locate out in Provo Utah where he will be not near any black people and therefore he will never have lawsuits and the jobs will be in Provo and people will wonder why don't people you know here have more jobs it never seems to occur to liberals that other people are not blocks of wood that when you set up certain incentives they will react to them in certain ways and when they do that the result may be the opposite of what you set out to do people say and will probably say this guy's concerned he must have come from a rich family must have come from a rich background what's your background like I came out of Harlem fact I was a I remember when I grew up I grew up in price in the south and I can remember one of my relatives taking me to a place where she worked as a maid and I remember seeing the two faucets there I said gee they must drink a lot of water here and she said no no that one of them one of them has hot water coming out or I thought it was a while because I'd never seen anything like that is that right yeah did you feel discrimination turn those stairs I was just a kid of eight I lived in the black community we saw a became was a shock to me to discover that most of people in the country were white how come more conservative more blacks aren't conservative more I'm becoming so I think I think I think I think a good part of it goes back to the days of the civil rights movement that many of the conservative Republicans came down on the wrong side for all sorts of political reasons and I think they they got they're getting the fallout from that for decades later at some point in time however you have to say no there's been a complete turnover in all in both parties and now we have to talk about today's issues with today's people all right I gotta take a break here we're gonna go to a commercial we're right back economist social critic and author here's the book the vision of the anointed we're going to talk more about this you know the anointed are those elites we talk about all the time we'll be right back stay with us [Music] vision of the anointed the vision of the United how did the anointed refer to people they don't agree with all sorts of ways but I think the main thing is they believe that you're not merely an Arab but in sin laura's they can't believe that you're just mistaken you must have you must have sold out you must have must be something warped about you do people think you sold out because you're conservative Oh some do some do I'm always fascinated with that phrase I first time I heard it was at Cornell University and and I attacked the president of Cornell University on the front page of the New York Times I want it now I'm selling out who am i selling out to if I'm attacking the president of Cornell University what brownie points will I get for that as an assistant professor or a three year contract yes not good you know the other thing that always gets me is that the people who are supposed to sold out typically have less money than the ones who making the accusation years ago it's true I remember some student wrote to me and I said what you need to do is make a list of all the blacks on your campus you think if sold out and they're making a list of those you think you have stood up for the right thing you see and then alongside each name put down the name and met and model of car that they drive and then see if you want to reconsider what you've just said but you know when the Liberals don't agree with with people they they classify them as mean-spirited oh yes for the rich let me give you some classic liberal comments about conservatives you guys are for the rich you guys only care about the rich guys mm-hm I answer that how do you how do you respond liberal says conservatives only care about rich people well what one of things I go into in the book is that the whole notion of rich is ridiculous that most Americans don't stay in the same income bracket even for one decade so the same guy who was quote rich now was twenty years ago probably in the bottom 20% I mean I was on a cruise recently luxury cruise and the guy said you know if someone had told me when I was growing up that I would end up on a cruise like this I would have said get real man you know that very few people are in that same income bracket the whole time the genuinely rich in the generally poor I would estimate to be no more than three percent of the American people really put together really yes genuinely important are they I'm seeing numbers like when they were talking about health care they said what third twenty thirty million people couldn't afford it or something several million of those we're making more than fifty thousand dollars a year so it's not see this is one of the things that you know a to do they never believe that people make choices there are people who have may who have the money they they prefer to put that money into a BMW rather than have rather a lot of young people didn't want health care they they were betting on their health absolutely and then this allows him to buy more stuff they want to buy so it's not a question they couldn't afford it it's a question they don't choose to spend the money what about mean-spirited conservatives are mean-spirited they're they're bigots they don't like people well you know one of those I tell people people say you know you're you're you're a very tough person I'm not tough life is tough I'm merely trying to acquaint you with with those facts what kind of a father were you tough well now I've never done it done a poll among my children fortunately probably but I have I have been called the last of the Victorian parents oh really yes I am NOT one who believes that the kids should be given unlimited indulgence and I think I can safely say that mine were not were you too tough um in other words did they rebel don't kids go through a rebellious period how did you deal with that oh I don't I don't know I'm not I'm not sure I just said here's what you should do and that's it when when when the kids away in college he's not doing anything he's messing up I simply say there'll be no more money you know back in the 60s Lyndon Johnson announced a war on poverty mmm am I wrong but there are more poor people I mean other words late and they were then yeah they're more poor people yeah I mean this was a hell of a war we lost it apparently because for the last thirty years we've been dumping money into these poverty programs oh absolutely here's the money though oh it supports a whole industry of people who run those programs who talk about those programs research those programs bureaucrats and so on doesn't help poor people no I went to Harlem in the 60s when John Lindsay was mayor of New York some things needed fix and then talked about fixing them and so everybody voted for these programs so you go up there today he's got the same problem oh yeah you've got them worse than most places the tragedy you see is that the anointed really want to make symbolic statements and running these programs makes those symbolic statements they don't really care if in the wake of affirmative action for example companies thought locating away from minority communities so they don't get involved in legal actions they don't care about that they've made their statement on the side of the angels and that's what's important have you ever debated Jesse Jackson no I have is that because would you like to or would he not want to do that I have no idea I have no idea I should be willing to I assume oh I may be I don't I don't know I think that's too much showbiz it is you know that there's a there are people who go and do this and I I'm doing less and less of it I tell them the story of an of an African boxing champion who fought an Irishman in st. Patrick's Day they in Dublin and he lost his title on what the sports writers called a questionable decision you have to know what forum you're talking about I was two hours till I thought Shelby Steele on with him and I said you know if Jesse Jackson celery Steele each had to present a two-hour lecture to an audience with an average IQ of 120 Shelby would wipe him out but if they had 5 seconds each on Donahue it would be Jesse Jackson all the way right so everything depends upon the forum is Jesse Jackson good for african-americans or not he's not for himself good for himself and that's true of most ethnic leaders in most groups in most countries in most periods of history that what will make what will serve his interest is the key people paranoid dependent upon him dependent upon government but will serve their interest is typically just the opposite that's pretty interesting so you're saying that the the leaders whatever group yeah whatever what's the people to be poor and dependent on them as opposed to dependent on themselves oh absolutely and I you see this the greatest cynicism in the academic world we're in many places black organizations on campus have a say on who gets admitted and they have turned down blacks with excellent credentials both as students and as faculty members for that very reason all right got to take a break again Thomas soul we'll be right back we're talking about the vision of the anointed pick it up why I'll tell you if you want to know what's going on in this country this guy knows stay with us talking about the Thomas soul lots of talk about Colin Powell now running for president and nobody can quite figure out what he stands for although there have been some hints in this latest book this new book of his it suggests that he might be a social liberal and a fiscal conservative have you been able to read between the lines what are you reading oh my my eyesight is not that super keen yeah whatever what he's saying I think it is sort of a watershed in the history of the country though that the only man who's been a level with the president in the polls has been a black man yeah I think thirty years ago that would have been not conceivable and I think it's interesting that very few people seem to want to look at the implications of that what do you think it means I mean I think that : pal I know Colin Powell and I you know he just has tremendous leadership appeal there's a sense I mean you don't get to be head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff unless you got some leadership humility but there's a sense that he might be or a hope or a wish that he might be above politics is the reason I think partly that but I think - I think the commentary on the people who are professional politicians but they say you know this guy is not in politics that already gives him a big boost I thought the four you can ever run he's gonna have to come out with some positions but I do think it's very well very useful to think in terms of what this means in terms of the public that is what what is what it's saying is that the mark Fuhrman's are not the norm that's right yeah yeah he's not up for anything I don't think he's gonna get elected to anything no not anytime soon no do you think if Colin Powell runs as an independent or as a third party candidate he would have a chance I mean are we at that point in America where there's a disappointment in the Republican and Democrat Party enough to elect a third party not their party well I think what Perot did last year was remarkable and $4.99 19% but he got 19% after a lot of Fiasco's imagine if he'd handled it better what he might have gotten I in a sense I think it would be more tragic of a third party candidate one because he wouldn't have no party in Congress yeah they have no support in Cardiff iting everybody in Congress that's been traditionally the problem with independent governor's they don't have any support in the legislature you know if you're on the on the Republican side who do you see philosophically that you think would be the opposite of a Bill Clinton can you tell Oh Phil Gramm Phil Gramm yeah do you support grant yeah you do I think Bob Dole would makes makes a great majority leader in the Senate and I think that would be a good role for him if someone came in but I think that the situation in the country has reached a point where so many things have gone so badly I mean education morals just to up and down the line then what you're gonna need is a good to terms of someone dedicated to turning the whole thing around and that has not been the role that Senator dole was played you know there's like a trivial example National Endowment you know it doesn't do any good to cut back the National Endowment because they're gonna look they're gonna lay low until times get better politically they'll come right back again like crabgrass you've got to root them out and I have the feeling that Senator Dole is the kind of person that runs the lawn moreover the crabgrass and it looks good enough for now but that isn't solving the problem Phil Gramm doesn't seem to be able to get the press to to say that he's anything except sort of a mean-spirited personal they they you they use the word mean every time they they in or they're trying to condition us like Pavlov's dog so when we see Phil Gramm we think mean but the well that will work in the long run and you know that's a long way to he's very actually funny guy he's been a guest on this show and no I'm quite well and he's he's pretty funny guy but you know I'm old enough to remember frontrunner Ed muskie oh yeah and you know overnight he was out of here yeah Gary Hart was doing pretty well at one time one time who's the guy from a so chooses ran for president oh yeah Michael Dukakis twenty points ahead of Bush yeah so so what things look like right now I don't really tell you everything yeah do you think what do you think the chances are of Clinton getting reelected though he seems to be holding steady at about what he got he needs an independent candidate yes that will help him a lot I think this chances are dangerously high mm-hmm and dangerously in the sense that not only would he be as bad in the second term is in the first term but worse because in the first term whenever he tried to go far left and things went bad against him he would dump through the can't people like Ronnie grenade dumped them you see but in the second term he wouldn't have to do that because he has nothing at stake anymore and he could load the place up with people of that sort the people around him are clearly the anointed I mean here Robert rice talking about how he's going to rebuild the labor force as if he were a carpenter and they were just pieces of wood you know when you talk about reinventing government and all this kind of high-flown nonsense those are the people he's surrounded himself with traditionally and we did a lot more I'm on the federal bench where they'd be the era decades after he's gone you know it's amazing you've had so much education and yet a lot of the annointed are the educated types the ones who've been college professors right that's true typically in in the non scientific areas socials so sociology history humanities heaven help us yeah who are the mascots of the anointed you talk about the mascots of the anoint there are people whom in whom they choose to back and whose rights are supposed to override other people's right the homeless or a classic example I'm appalled when I see people out there in the street giving money to the home I mean able-bodied men yeah one of the classic pictures to me occurs in San Francisco when there was this able-bodied white man out in the street begging and there's this black lady coming along there a very modestly dressed like she didn't have but she's stopping to open her purse to give him some money you know I thought could have us have we really come to this and we've been brainwashed by the annointed into thinking this is what we ought to do what do you say to guys about money off of it not all of it can be repeated on on on the air but the fact is they don't get any money they don't and I and people who complain now about all these people begging in the street as a simple answer don't money and they won't be in the street but isn't that hard-hearted and as a conservative doesn't that make you a cruel hard-hearted well I'm compassionate arms I'm depriving them of their booze and drugs that's really what you believe yes now would you help somebody if you knew it was going for food yeah I'm back topic I must confess that just recently I did have give out some money to an elderly lady in st. Petersburg Russia because I'm told that they've been devastated by the fact that the attentions had been ruined by the inflation they've had over there and so I there are people you know like that but but now we have a program an able-bodied guy walking up to you know good heavens I'm not some of these guys look like they could be in the Olympics that's true when you wrote this what were you trying to accomplish with the book and did you do it were you nailing liberals for thirty years of social policy what were you trying to say I was trying to reveal the thinking behind that the kinds of assumption is the kind of world that exists inside their mind and therefore why those assumptions are so dangerous in the long run it's not just the policies mission and those in that and that they're better than everybody oh absolutely there's no question and that's what makes them dangerous even all the policies that I mentioned them they're twenty years from now those policies may not be the policies we're concerned about but that mindset will still be there and what makes them tremendously dangerous is that facts that contradict what they believe are simply ignored or you've aided where does the press fall into this as the annuity group are they part of the oh absolutely they were a major part of it because one of the reasons that people don't get many of the facts that go against what's believed is that the press doesn't choose to publicize those facts give me an example of something the press might not cover or cover well well show you a few years ago there was a story about prenatal care among blacks that black women get less prenatal care than white women infant mortality rate is higher among blacks they immediately assume that one causes the other all right one of things I like to do is go back to the original source and find out what it said I went back on the very same page where it said that it's a figures showed mexican-americans get even less prenatal care than blacks and they have a lower infant mortality rate than whites so influence prenatal care and infant more have nothing to do with each other if you break it down further black women who have only a high school education but who were married their children have lower infant mortality rates than white women who have a college education who are unwed mothers so it's not raised it's not income it's not education its lifestyle when you live a certain way there are consequences to that the media doesn't want to want to accept that because if you say people lifestyles have a lot to do with the outcome then there's no room for the annointed was the civil rights movement good for the african-american in all ways or were there any downsides to it it was good in some ways it was not unlike most things not good in all ways it's a little like you know the clock has stopped we'll be right twice a day and the Liberals assumptions worked in that particular case for a limited period unfortunately along with that came many other things which destroyed law enforcement which destroyed the family which destroyed education and I don't think that the things that were gained outweigh that Thomas soul the book is the vision of the anointed there it is on your screen close up go get it Thank You Thomas soul good luck with your book when we come back a delightful entertainer who along with her sister and mom has come up with an exciting new project and this one's for kids it's a terrific actress you're going to enjoy meeting your Audrey Landers

Channel: Ailes Archive

Views: 77,054

Keywords: Roger Ailes, Russell Crowe, Hoover Institution, Stanford University, Harvard University, National Humanities Medal Knowledge and Decisions, Black Rednecks and White Liberals, Intellectuals and Society, Francis Boyer Award, Sydney Hook Award, National Humanities Medal, Bradley Prize, Man in the Arena, Loudest Voice, Roger Ailes documentary, Roger Ailes movie, Roger Ailes interview

Id: k_2_J_X6Bqw

Length: 26min 33sec (1593 seconds)

Published: Fri May 31 2019