Theater Talk TONY Predictions Critics' Special

coming up on theater talk stupid ferryman baronmon was such an event it's like 19 hours long it's British it's about Northern Ireland it has a baby it has geese it everything happens in the last three minutes but still it's a slam-dunk for best play [Music] hi I'm Julie Halston and I am one of the co-hosts of theater talk I wish I could be with you tonight but I am about to go on stage in a Broadway show called Tootsie so I can't be with you but I love you all I miss you all and have a wonderful evening of theater talk on with the show ladies and gentlemen please welcome the stars of Lincoln Center theatres hit production of my fair lady Harry havi Pekin and Alan for dinner welcome welcome welcome welcome here to talk to the Lincoln Center for the first time the fantastic tonight will be our 438 performance of my fair lady really thank you thank you for your support and without much ado let us welcome your host for this evening Susan Haskins and Jesse Greene thank you so much thank you everyone for coming this is fantastic and you know Jesse Green wrote the great review you got last year thank you both for dropping by thank you have a great joke good show tonight [Music] let me introduce Michael Musto of new now next comm Elisabeth Vincentelli of The New Yorker and the New York Times Adam Feldman theater and dance editor of Time Out New York and the president of the New York Drama Critics Circle who just made their awards and Jesse Green my beloved one of my beloved cohost co-chief theater critic of the New York Times before we do the Tony predictions here's our Tony predictions the harvest is sacred the harvest is breadth and light and spirit [Music] I won't let you down I'm just Michael in the bathroom Michael in the bathroom battle party forget how long it's been hi I'll be your guide I'll be you tonight a few years ago I was thinking about the Constitution for various reasons [Music] how that is life what does that mean I have no strength to think anymore you have no strength minute there's trouble you have no strength Joe you're doing this same thing again whenever there's trouble you yell at me and you think that settles it [Music] with me [Music] what did I say it was always there waiting to be awoke and all that stuff you English butters think of when you think of us that we're what essentially Savage well I'm just saying [Music] I [Music] [Music] [Music] the other way around try to imagine every book every magazine every TV show movie was trying to tell you that you should be homosexual but you knew that you weren't you do that for you this was right stop it you're talking crazy [Music] and Howard good evening it is Friday September 19th and I'm Howard Beale I know Hades town is there twice but I liked it that much shall we start with best player best musical let's start actually with the smaller category Best Musical revival oh okay so this year only two and both of them were nominated amazingly enough have we any doubt about who will win this was such a weird season it was like King Lear in a casino Lobby and a cool in the gang jukebox musical you know I mean Broadway has become East Village performance art in the 80s mixed with Branson and I kind of liked it I don't know in this case Kiss Me Kate was slightly woke off' i did that they rewrote it to make it clear that kate isn't or lily are in bad people they are bad because men make them bad i got that already from the original oklahoma was extremely welcome fide so i'm gonna say because it's thrillingly revisionist it's going to be Oklahoma well Oklahoma has has gotten a lot more attention because it is making much bolder choices but the flip side of that I think is that there are a lot of people who really don't like Oklahoma and I loved Oklahoma when I saw it at Saint Ann's warehouse last year off Broadway and I loved it again when I saw it on Broadway but they keep the house lights up at this production and that one of the interesting things about that as you can see everyone who isn't liking it across and and so I'm there I am again I love this production and I do think it should win I think it's a remarkable reinvention of the material but I do wonder whether the Tony voters who are not necessarily the locust and and and hippest voters all of the time will go with it all the way because kuzmic aid is also a very entertaining and well produced show with very good coil for example which I think may be very bad man so my money is still on Oklahoma but it's not a done deal no I completely agree actually I could see a lot of people leaving at intermission at Oklahoma which despaired me I'll say you got free vegetarian chili and no utensils cuz Oh suddenly we're gonna be authentic I use some crumbling piece of cornbread just slop it up no no there's a spoon so it's interesting to note that the composition of the Tonys elevating committee is an entirely different thing from the voters and this year especially so if you look through the names there's a lot of younger people this year a lot more people representing downtown or what we traditionally thought of as downtown theater and that may speak to what you're saying a difference between what we see nominated and what may or may not work well but then let's go to a bigger category because this one was just you know obvious what it was this is her warmup yes all right so now I'll go to Best Musical ain't too proud the life and times of the temptations beetlejuice Hades town the prom and I'm gonna say that I hate hate it's done with the intensity of a thousand suns Oh God for her as a mild all right tell us tell us why you hate okay so I saw that New York did a workshop two to three years ago when he premiered there and got very good reviews did you hate it there yes absolutely I I would have left but say for my professional integrity so I stick to the end and I thought it was one of the tightest the music it is so it's so bland I could not believe what I was hearing and I thought this is insane I come this is a completely like living nightmare man oh so then I went again of course obviously and to its credit what's what's interesting it's a completely different staging but the show is even worse because whatever fig leaf of political you know miss it was in the downtown version is completely gone like the the book is so bland and well I was not I will say that Elizabeth has strong feelings about this show but the population of haters town is not actually that bad I think actually the show has a lot of enthusiasm behind it and a lot of nominations the most of any show this year I think when you're in that audience even if you didn't like it Elizabeth you'll have to concede that most of the audience was very enthusiastic about the show I think that it has a terrific score I agree with you I don't think that the book is particularly strong I don't think that's the strength of the show I think it's more about the environment that it creates and about the musical world that sweeps you up and into it but I think those will be enough and I think it is the odds-on favorite to win Best Musical do you realize oh my god that depresses I think it's going to win yeah I mean it's all atmosphere but it's beautifully done atmosphere and it fits the trajectory of the best musicals the last several years off Broadway though in this case it was actually a school musical than it was a concept album then it was all fraud right and it has that kind of pedigree and that kind of pretension to it I love Tootie I thought was extremely enjoyable though it didn't make one iota of sense okay he's trying to show that you learn so much it's so hard to be a woman I learned so much what did he learn the second he's a woman he gets the part in the musical of Romeo and Juliet he gets him to rewrite the whole show so it's about him he's headed for the Tony just like Santino Fontana is a hot guy of the show was suddenly begging him for sex the woman of his dreams who doesn't pay him any mind as a man suddenly wants to have lesbian sex with it so hard to be a woman not to give away footballers so I agree with you though it's with the trajectory that the Tony voters go for what I will call art and I did think that Haiti's time was a work of art it's not based on a you know what that I laughed because Elizabeth had to explain on Twitter the friend overheard Oh at the bar in his town this two guys talking and they were like oh my god there's all those movies all those musicals the best own movies and finally there's one that's an original story that's never been done before no but it is largely it is largely original story the truth of Hades town is that it's it's ostensibly about Orpheus and Eurydice but it isn't very much about Orpheus and Eurydice they discard almost all of the original story and they they create their own story which involves capitalism and climate change and all these things that are not really important as with the band's visit and fun home it's it's this kind of artistic patina to the things that that the corporate musicals and I thought dusty was terrific but Betelgeuse is an amusement ride it's not a musical ain't you proud I like but the cher show was better I'm sorry yes and the protein I love the prom except the central character is a lesbian who has no character she's just a lesbian and she has a girlfriend what do they do together they just kind of sing songs and I think that I think okay that's not true that's not true but the character she's like she's better than that okay thanks guys I like I like [Applause] the actor is the horrible narcissistic actors were great we wanted more of them listen a lesbian I liked I liked it better lesbian I'm a lesbian myself this is not going to end well Elizabeth I think I liked to see and the prom a lot I thought they were both very entertaining kind of old-fashioned musical comedies but I think if you just just from the feel of the of the waters right now it it seems like they both those shows feel a little old-fashioned for where the Tonys want to envision themselves right now and I would again I do think Hades town that's what you think what would you choose yeah I think Tootsie will win I think that the voters have not changed that much but we shall see over Hades town no over n too proud it sounds like you know you would have picked a piece of dust moving across the stage eternal love - Patrick Paige I think it's also about it to some extent it's about how many other rewards it will gather well so then we get so I think that Hades town for example is gonna get best score I think it's going to get Best Director I think it has a real chance of some of the creative categories and at orchestrations and and eventually those things kind of come together into a overall wave as opposed to I think Tootsie which is guaranteed to win Best Actor and almost guaranteed to win Best Book and other than that I don't know but some years that does happen other years it sort of distributes and this is a year that had a lot of different kinds and fairly some a more than usual number of fairly good product to give awards to wouldn't you say well it's a good year because the diversity is again on like a touchdown but and let it's there you know because it covers such a it's part of it's such a broad range that is the nicest thing I've heard you say about it I think we better move off are we all giving the the best actor in musical Tony to Santo fun though I am NOT the Santa Lacroix Santino Fontana alright so by the way can I just say that I'm really bummed that this is such a Santino's year because Brooks Eshelman scarce is so good in the prom yes and he's always in the supporting role and finally mix it to the leading you know what Santino Fontana is a hard-working actor who has shown in a lot of shows through the years and he has to make that transition he has a great it's a year of really that falsetto voice between to see ya let's complete this quartet of awards with the Best Leading Actress in a Musical I don't think there's much debate all right let me read them Stephanie J bought from the share show Caitlyn to Noonan from the prom best level from the prom ever know they know it even the blizzard oh thank you very much from Haley sound and Kelly O'Hara from Kiss Me Kate when I said little debate you said oh really I don't know because I sir who do you I don't see you from oh I thought Stephanie J block it's Stephanie okay all right so I'm afraid that you're gonna break my heart suppose even know bazzara I'm well I like David Nevada I can't say her name but I thought she was terrific well you hated that everything I thought she was very weak there's no I think Stephanie J block been doing a lot of homework for a lot of years and people have just a lot of goodwill toward her she's wonderful in the sheriff any kind of lifetime yeah and there's three shares but she's the main share here's the lion's share but it's not just for her don't work just encourages I'm just saying he's terrible just I just want to say I don't think it's just for her career she is really doing it and I didn't love the Cher show but she is astonishing in it she gets the essence of Cher without doing an impression she doesn't sell her soul you know in order to play Cher and she's much better to share than she was as Liza and the Boy From Oz oh yes yeah or as the pirate queen but let's you know what I like that show oh my god all right should we move to Best Play yes all right best play choir boy by parallel I'm not gonna say their names because I just can't you say the play name and then we'll say okay very good dear boy I Terrell Alvin McCraney the ferryman by JS Butterworth Gary a sequel to Titus Andronicus by Taylor Mac Inc James Graham James Graham and what the Constitution means to me Ida Shrek okay so where are we well where we are especially in this category is really about what isn't there and what isn't there is to kill a mockingbird and that is a very strange and very striking omission because it's been nominated for nine other awards and not this one and and it's worth making a point of saying that this particular award is an award for the production of the play it's not just for the script so you can't just say well they loved everything about it except the play itself because because everything about it is included in this category and that's why in past years you've had best play winners like warhorse or Harry Potter and the cursed child which are not necessarily the best play on page but which have other things going for them in the production and that seemed very clearly to be where the general Gestalt of the voter ship was this year and yet it wasn't nominated and you have to wonder what that's about all I could think of us they're thinking it's making so much money it's gonna run for five years they don't need it or after green book winning which I liked winning the Oscar people are wary of another thing that is perceived as a white hero of racism mmm winning Best Play am i right I wasn't even invited they invited me three weeks after open if you interview one of the supporting actors and I was like I don't make deals like that so I heard it's good but then I got I heard Hades town was terrible and it's great there are a couple other factors that I think may be playing in here one is the play was involved in a lot of legal shenanigans getting to Broadway when the well you can read about them in The Times and and then also it's is it a new play this is a category for new plays it's definitely a totally new adaptation there may have been a feeling among the nominators that it didn't belong in this category and it was pushed into the category by the producer well it's an entirely new play it's based on a previous source I mean Beetlejuice is an original musical it's based on an original source that's not an argument there is something else going on here and it may have something to do with some animosity towards the history of this particular production I think it probably does because I can't imagine any other explanation and the history was the producer and the estate for happily pursuing yeah they were there was a legal battle getting it there and then there was a kerfuffle about not allowing other small companies to do other adaptations of it and that came off very badly and then they did some damage control but maybe not enough I mean Scott Rudin is the producer he has a lot going on in Broadway this year he's arguably the most important most adventurous producer on Broadway but there's a perception out there sometimes that he can come off a little strong and but he also produced Garry yeah he produced it yeah well and many Meharry didn't have that particular history but Garry was a surprise on the list a positive surprise in the way that Mockingbird was a negative surprise I don't mean positively negatively critically but in write that that Garry a very Downton sort of play would have been on Broadway was already a surprise and then that it was nominated for best play their views were not stellar but I think that's why I don't think it's a scarf wooden dig I think it's more about the baggage of what's around well given what is nominated what do we think is gonna win I love the heidi shrek play but i don't think a play where someone plays themself has ever been in contention before the funny thing about inc which is the play of Rupert Murdoch it really shows him to be a crass kind of horrible panderer who will do anything for money good needs friends when you have readers the New York Post which is a Murdoch publication raved about it it's proving the point of the play that Murdoch publications will print anything yeah I think the ferryman is the is the favorite here and I think it deserves to be I think it's an extraordinary play it just won the New York Drama Critics Circle Award for Best Play it has the most nominations of any play tied with To Kill a Mockingbird but this one is eligible for Best Play and I think it's an amazing effort it's a huge cast there's a goose there's a baby there's dancing I mean well now you know the recipe to get a Tony yes Elizabeth I forgot already my own favorite is ink actually and even though I did work for the post I think that play is actually very critical of Murdock and mix front of it and he shows Murdock or that's what I'm saying and the Post said it was a wonderful portrait of the Confucius of journalism I'm serious computer I was about truth that honesty and justice and I think in Boerum the players with no characters and a false climax really so well agree to disagree yeah about is fair play play with no characters and very much Berryman was such an event it's like 19 hours long it's British it's about Northern Ireland it has a baby it has geese it everything happens in the last three minutes but still it's a slam-dunk for Best Play and it's no blizzard ah I just want to say I also think the ferryman will win but I would have voted for what the Constitution means to me because I have to live by what I wrote whether I agree with it or not so let's let's move on to Best leading Actor in a play Bryan Cranston Network Paddy Considine for the ferryman Jeff Daniels To Kill a Mockingbird Adam driver burn this and jeremy pope i just worry that bryan cranston isn't getting enough exposure that might hurt his chances but i know i think that he is he's going to be the he's the top contender it was an odd again not a production that i particularly liked i had the same problems with it that I had with Inc I thought it was very noisy I thought it didn't really care about any of its characters but I thought that Bryan Cranston was the one that had cared about and he you know it was one of those shows that was half multimedia and half live and he is extraordinarily gifted at both of those things and at creating spaces between them so it was a perfect vehicle for him and and he was but this was one of those categories this year that I thought there were 10 or 15 people who could easily have been nominated and I wouldn't have complained this was an embarrassment of riches this year well Jeff Daniels is basically stepping into Gregory pecks Oscar winning shoes and Bryan Cranston had to step into Peter Finch's Oscar winning shoes so how do you think between the two of them Mockingbird but I thought Bryan Cranston was brilliant and I'm not always a fan of his acting but I thought he made that part his own he brought so much heartbreaking pathos he became like a screaming fox news anchor but somebody who actually cares and somebody with real ethics and was just concerned about the world falling apart I thought he did an amazing job and he was made to come into the audience they made it interactive I loved that work I think Jeff Daniels is going to win that's just my sense I agree actually I would prefer Cranston even though I didn't like network but I I have a feeling of that Jeff Daniels and maybe because the play is not me right but there will be other opportunities to give to Cohen well I think it will win for Best Featured Actress for example for Celia keenan-bolger I think it has good shots in I think best lighting for jet for tipton maybe for they're going to take that to the bank winner best lighting also that I really enjoy Adam drivers before he's not gonna win but whether it was fun that made no sense that I didn't know what he was doing but it was so much fun to watch everything was on this day was just like oh what is he gonna do yeah it was great I agree that's one of the best performances I've seen in a long time Best Actress in a play is full of beautiful performances don't read them let's read them Annette Bening All My Sons Laura Donnelly the ferryman Alain made the Waverly gallery Laurie Metcalf Hillary and Clinton and Heidi Shrek for what the concert and Janet McTeer women laugh for Bernhardt hamlet so there are six this year in that category and so that makes the perceived slight and the Paseo mission of Glenda Jackson for King Lear seemed even more of a slight also Carrie Washington was not nominated for American Sam but these were all very strong performances less I think of those frankly Glenda Jackson was my least favorite performance of those of those whatever it is eight that we just not it we just named so it's not really a slight to leave Glenda out I think it's just there are only five or in this case six slots there's a general feeling about who will win this isn't their sailing I hope it's a May although I have to say I thought an Annette Bening was just marvelous in all my sons and just a gorgeous that betting was brilliant and it was her first Broadway performance in 30 years in all my sons and she plays a woman who basically has to believe has to cling on to the falsehood that her son is still alive if he isn't it means that her husband should I give another spoiler away it was written on 40 it was written in the 40s all right whatever in any case she didn't player like a sort of hazy Jessica Lange O'Neal type of wife she was very present but in Lane Mae was brilliant as a woman kind of losing grip she made the character so adorable you felt like it was a beloved relative slipping away before your eyes I mean I don't know in terms of the Tony nominators demographic but to me Elaine May is just such a magnificent performer of my whole life she invented comedy Elaine made down there you know what the compass players go before they had second city she is it well that's part of the genius of casting her in that role which which imposes the same sorts of feelings toward the character as you are expressing toward the actor so I think we're all in agreement on that now I want to go to a couple of the featured roles and musicals because I think they're two very interesting categories Best Actor and a featured role in a musical Andre DeShields hey that sound pronounced the same for me for Tootsie Patrick page for Haiti sound Jeremy Pope for ain't too proud and Ephraim Sykes this is one of the one of the tightest categories for me and one of the categories where I wish there were other people nominated not that these ones are not I wish they had had enough nominations to spread around to other people Patrick Vail in Oklahoma should be what's my favorite performance know who played Jud fry in Oklahoma that's up at the very center of the one concession half of its in the dark yeah just a gorgeous forgot half of its in too much light so you John bellman and to see the the hunky stupid guy is hilarious you know I would like them to be options but they're not so given the current options I think probably it's really hard to protect Patrick Paige in Hades town who's never been nominated before and is a remarkable and unique performer Ephram Sykes is great in ain't too proud and already shields is is Andre DeShields and is also great in huge town the two Santa's we're from Sykes a Tundra DeShields in my opinion every most sensational is david ruffin from the temptations spinning with that microphone and singing and dancing I think Andre is gonna get it he's been a legend ever since he played the winds and the original Wiz ain't misbehavin and such a career and as you saw from the clip he enters the stage and its presence it's just it's like Elizabeth present well I think Andre DeShields will likely win I think I mean I would say the shields or page on this one I think it's gonna be between the two of them all right Best Featured Actress in a musical Lily Cooper for Tootsie amber gray for Hades town Sarah styles for tootsie Ali stroker for Oklahoma and Mary pesto I want I want a three-way tie in this category a three-way tie amber and I want all three of them to be on stage together in a group hug and is my dream I'm basically other two are very good also another category where I wish there were more Bonnie Milligan I would love we're naming a lot of names without really saying much about who they were what they did let's go into that for a minute who wants to take up amber gray amber Gray is a genius there we got she was amazing a couple of years ago in or three years gone in for a Natasha Pierre and the great comic eight to twelve she has been in a downtown actor she was in the octoroon and other things as he plays Persephone in Hades town I think she's the emotional heart of the show she also has some of the best musical numbers she dances she's comedic she has the audience in the palm of her hand she's wonderful and then someone want to take Sarah Styles Sarah Styles plays Santino Fontana is former girlfriend obsessively neurotic former girlfriend in Tootsie and she basically has won so much she does it three times and she is a tornado of energy and yeah this kind of very savvy neurosis that she has and she is so wonderful I'm warm at the same time because that card could be so annoying and she makes it so warm that is really part of where this show is great Ali stroker Ali stroker plays a toe a knee in this production of Oklahoma and brings an incredible Verve and just joy of performing to the character an additional thing about her that is used in this show we talk about colorblind casting and things like that she is an actor who is in a wheelchair but it doesn't try to pretend she isn't she uses that as part of her expressive armamentarium she's and and the choreographer choreography that she does is brilliant and carried off again with this water fever that that I think will actually end up making her the winner and she's so funny she has these songs that we've heard so many times and so hard to make these comics on the old comic songs seem fresh and I think she does a wonderful job with it mouths no yes I'm predicting Ali stroker I thought she was brilliant and reinvented the part and just did amazing things with it but again three-way tie please yeah it's beautiful I I think Ali stroker - what do you think I think yeah yeah yeah all right let's look moved to the director Best Direction of a musical Rachel Chapman Hades town Scott Ellis des Mackinaw ain't too proud Daniel fish Oklahoma and Casey Nicholaw the problem is this one of the categories where Hades town will be rewarded even if it doesn't get Best Musical I think Rachel trafficking is gonna win here I think that even people who don't love ya recognize that it's an extraordinary production she also did Natasha appear in the great comet of 1812 a few years ago with amber and that was another remarkable production I think had a real shot of winning that year it didn't and this will be I think Rachel's here but Daniel fish also the director of Oklahoma certainly has done I think really striking work and it's the work that perhaps announces itself the most clearly as directorial because everything is such a such a different choice for more but now but now I'm gonna be an old scold and say that the thing I did not I loved Oklahoma up to the intermission and then on came the dream ballet firstly they poured out all the mist and smoke I wish the directors didn't make such a constant use of that that substance but then that dream ballet just didn't work for me and I was with my good friend who's here tonight and she was sitting there going like this at the end at the level of the music and I just it brought me down then I came back into the second act and I got there's a reason la is in act 2 yeah because seriously I think if they put it at the end of act 1 you wouldn't come back I loved it but as you say it divides people so I think Hades time will be the winner for director I agree and I liked the dream ballet collected - I like the feedback to imagine 1943 looking at Agnes DeMille suddenly thrown that stuff at you that's what it was like yeah well that goes back without the t-shirt I suppose it was shocking but again and again you know enough with the fog all right so the next the next thing is the best direction of a play rupert goold for inks and Mendis for the ferryman Bartlett Sher to kill a mockingbird evil van Hove for Network and George C Wilfer Garry a sequel to Titus Andronicus we're running out of time this is sort of a slam dunk yes I think Sam Mendes but Bart shirt has it has a chance for it to kill a mockingbird I think but I think sy thinks I meant is it I think that the production the sheer scope of the ferryman I know the geese yeah Best Choreography Camille a brown for fire boy war in Carlisle for Kiss Me Kate Dennis Jones for Tootsie David Newman Hades town and Sergio TV oh poor ain't too proud the life and time I think Kiss Me Kate is a slam dunk there are two show-stopping numbers too darn hot and Tom Dick or Harry which is just beyond tone down tone down the dick stuff number one they would spend so much time making that show non-sexist in the choreography was sexist and secondly to me yes it was you are an old school I am an old comic and the other thing is you know having seen I suck you speak aged on television the child has seen it and that they had to go in the in the Cole Porter where he was subtly saying every Tom Dick and Harry Ditka dick and that they had to go I just said they have to go for the Tony Award but I like that part so what about but what number what about fire boys well I think it's interesting this is a case where they drew for Best Choreography from a non-musical what does that say about the state of musicals well no I think what it says is that the courts are ready for the lawgiver is up for Best Score what does that say about music I think it's a recognition of some exceptional work in those categories that was not in musicals I thought the choreography in choir boy was superb by cameo a Jones and whether you want it in a category that traditionally rewards musicals I don't think it's an embarrassment to have it there I think Chris Gattelli should have been nominated for this year show but that's another story and also I think Spencer Liff should've been nominated for head over heels but I think that Brazil should have nominated for a bunch of things that it was now or do we think that Bob Mackie is going to get costumes yes I guess so before we close just one last person one one last person I'm good I'll go back to Patrick Vail the wonderful judge by somebody else who was egregiously left out who we the whole play of lifespan of effect which was a hilarious show about fact-checking who knew a Daniel Radcliffe Bobby kind of voluntary talents were terrific it was a good year for journalists on stage actually between pink and lifestyle Network and well for me I'm with Adam I really think that head over heels was really wilful and it's really bad that so many of the shows that opened early get completely forgotten and I think only on Audra McDonald because she's opening in May could break that curse and get like a 25th Tony but like you know ever wins anything it's really unfair I would like to have seen Aaron Wilhelm II who plays she's the one who is supposedly raped and her trial scene was astonishing the quick characterization and the depth of it were were billion I wonder whether had it opened later in the season whether Mercedes Ruehl would have been nominated for her performance in court so she wasn't a tough category though yeah well that category has a lot of people who could have been nominated yeah so thank you very much Michael Musto from new now next comm Elisabeth Vincentelli thank you for your born times Adam Feldman from Time Out New York Jesse green Co chief theater critic of the New York Times I want to thank you all for coming coming up [Applause] I'm joined by my co-host Jason cinnamon critic and comedy columnist of the New York Times and we are joined by critics Ben Bradlee co-chief theater critic of the New York Times Jan Simpson a Broadway radio and Jesse Green co-chief theater critic of the New York Times Jesse I've given the hosts a co-host seat over to Jason so that you and Ben and Jen could the critics who see everything could be on an even keel and I'm offended but I'll live with it it's been an interesting and rather good season this year with some very unusual Oh some special we don't know what's happening all right there's some very unusual productions going on when the Tony nominations came out the first thought I had was a lot of these shows feel like things you would have seen downtown a few years ago and now if you could talk guys talk a little bit about is is sort of Broadway increasingly kind of co-opting downtown and if so why I've never had something like Gary which is an original Broadway play I mean I what buy a downtown guy buy downtown guy but I mean I don't know I try not to be a geographus I was catching up on the shows I hadn't reviewed that Jesse had and I saw within a three-day period what the Constitution means to me on Broadway Gary and the Cher show and I thought it's kind of great to have a world where all these can coexist I mean Gary to me is so unexpected and yet my matinee audience loved it to me it sort of it's vaudeville of what the Constitution means to me is a much more sort of interactive I mean when I saw that on Broadway it was amazing the feedback like all the way through and then the Cher show I think is like what you would have had you know the follies of another time I'm really that fashion show it's amazing why is what the Constitution means to me well why is that belong in Broadway today which is just more expensive than ever you know we'll talk about it later but it's not like it's not the same kind of conservative showcase that always been in many ways so so why are artists like Daniel fish and how do you fare there now I'd give a lot of credit to Scott Rudin as the producer I mean because he brought those two Eve of an over and wasn't that for me that was a door opening the event of reproductions of the Arthur Miller plays a view from the bridge and the crucible a very exotic interesting but after that it was like all bets were off as to what kind of talent you would I think you could say Julie Taymor I guess did to some extent before but you also had something like fun home which started down at the public rudder men that came up town did well won awards and appealed to broad audiences what we consider to be downtown material is still edgy in many of the same ways but producers have figured out ways to keep the cost down what the Constitution means to me let's face it has two adult actors in it and I don't know if the high school girls who are also in it are paid even even if they are that's not a big I think even a big shows the ones that Scott Rudin did with Eva van hava which were his kind of big productions have figured out ways through a combination of the use of stars for X number of weeks and keeping or smaller casts or in the case of what the Constitution means to me and even Gary as elaborate as that set is it's just one set it doesn't change or move around and they figured out ways to get through a Broadway run without losing too much money I mean you've written very persuasively and passionately about what the Constitution means to me what is it doing that that hasn't been done before why is this such a unique show it's an act of civic engagement aside from being a drama now some people wouldn't agree that it's a drama in fact I read online every day people saying that's not a play how can it be nominated for Best Play and I understand what those people mean but you know what what it's doing is forcing you to rethink what is a play to my mind it's it's a character engaged in conflict that speaks to issues in society so it's a play what what makes it unique those of you who don't know what's going on in that place she's talking about her childhood her true actual childhood where she earned her money for college by going around speaking about the Constitution and engaging in debates and impromptu speeches and but it becomes a deeper story about the ways in which the Constitution she gradually learns has failed her as a woman and has failed women in our society and then at the end when you just feel like everything you thought you knew and believed about how great our country is in our Constitution is has been shattered she then brings up one of two young women that we were talking about earlier who are high school students in New York who debate her on whether to get rid of the Constitution or not and it's not impromptu it's pretend impromptu yes and as is the entire thing well that's partly why it's a it's a play I notice hi on it as Jessie is the thing I do like about it is it along with a lot of it of other plays we've seen this season it's breaking the traditional form from what a play is you have something like Fairview which was off-broadway won this year's Pulitzer Prize that really shattered what the just the traditional form of how we perceive what a play is also and that's exciting well Fairview not to getting a spoiler alert no no it's a fair view we can't really puts the audience sort of in it makes bird seats it's experimental on Howard the relationship between the audience and the players which is something that also you're talking about there The Times did a package on plates of color and I thought Ben you had a really interesting essay in there saying sort of pushing back on my original question we're saying that still what you see on Broadway is safer and then what you're seeing off-broadway things like Fairview yeah I wonder if you could say some more about that first of all you've got a lot of people who are for which for whom a single night at the theater is a major investment and they don't go most people I think don't go necessarily to be shaken I think if there were more part of the regular conversation if we went more often then it would be fine I mean I want to be rattled I mean when I go to the theater when that happens I'm really grateful and surprised that it can still happen but often I think people want to be comforted and there's I mean you know I cried at the end of the prom I think it's I mean I I like that experience as well but to kill a mockingbird is the hit play about that suppose that deals with race and yet how did you feel about that well I wouldn't call it the hip play that deals with race well exactly but I was putting it in you know comparing to what you'd see how race was presented in that and then in Fairview or slave play I saw it I mean no offense meant but with an all-white middle-aged matinee audience and people were crying there was something so congrats for self-congratulatory about me is the implication and this is for open the Sun that part of the reason it is a hit is almost the same reason that Green Book wins the Oscar that it is does play it safe it does get analogy yeah I don't want to put down theatergoers I think what's happening is women and people of color get opportunity and Broadway is consider its a big opportunity and we get opportunity on the basis of what we've done and men and particularly white men get opportunity on the basis of their potential and so right now we're seeing a lot of people who are trying out different things I think eventually they will get to Broadway but if you look at like three years ago we had five first-time playwrights and they were I think Lucas Smith Joshua Harmon JT Rodgers Lynn Nottage and Paula Vogel Lynn Nottage and Paula Vogel had already won Pulitzer it's these three young and they were Lynn was in her 50s Paula's in her 60s they were making their Broadway debut those three guys all really talented playwrights or in their 30s we're seeing more women more people of color tell our stories and it's just gonna take a while for Broadway just say you've told them enough for us to believe them to move them to Broadway in significant numbers that's assuming that Broadway will continue to make a space for the uncomfortable works because those people are writing plays from their experience which isn't as comfortable as the Broadway experience tends to be we've seen a few holes in in that fabric this year and I don't think we're going to ever see Broadway look like off-broadway it may be a better mix than it is now but there's some shows really want to live in a different environment yeah well you mentioned Lucas naath yeah he had a new place and sorry you know new play this year as well Hillary Clinton yes and I wonder if there are some a lot of explicit political plays that are about real figures living uh this year and I was trying to think about sort of the political point of view of these shows right and if you look at something like and you tell me if you disagree with this but network and Inc both seem to me to be critiques of populism of Sderot various kinds and I think you could even although it's less direct you can make the case for Hillary and Clinton - although I'd be hurt curious know what you all think about what the political point of view of that show was can you save that sort of there is a certain kind of politics for these plays political point of view that may not be in step with the current age we're living in which is one define both on the right and the left by populist movements I think that's true when was the last time there was like a great Republican play on Broadway David Mamet but you said great yes but I mean populace from left and right I mean sure that ink was anti populist but he said critique it was a very careful choice of word I think because it really was an analysis of populism and how we came to be in this particular state that we are this sort of self advertising majority majority rules moment and tabloid television and Fox News which certainly plays on pop you all seen ink yeah I think good plays can be about almost anything and if they're well performed we'll almost to a sickening degree go along with what they seem to be saying I mean that's why the world we live in is the way it is people are swayable by the by the wrong arguments if they're well made and the same things happen in plays you know to me ink was it had that problem in place like that that the the devil was also the hero and so you said you didn't like Paradise Lost well a poem is different from a play anywhere the hero of a play works on you in a different way than Satan well he was the most charismatic it was he was a God for a cynical age wait wait which are we talking about Paradise Lost no no no he wasn't God that was his problem we're talking about Rupert Merton so you said there's a certain line of thought like there's no such thing as an anti war movie because if you put war on screen you inevitably romanticize it it's not true also no matter how much of a critique of Rupert Murdoch you put on stage you put them on there and you show his private life you humanize them and make them more likable is that what you're saying I well maybe not likeable and maybe not humanized exactly but it does what it does humanize them in a way and that at particular eyes is it I mean the pruder is is I mean that moment where he objects to the knickers and the scented knickers and mailings did you say did you like it and the toplessness on page six page three yeah it got very preachy but but it it's true to the extent that you you couldn't really put on Broadway a play in which your hero was trauma and that's one of you wants to go ahead and try well I thought we're a satire I mean they did Julius Caesar at the park right with Julius Caesar is trumped and you know that certainly got its share of attention right if it were presented as this kind of an R and hero do you know this monolith David Mann but you mentioned Hillary and Clinton and that that is to me a very different sort of play I mean it it does purport to you know reflect on characters we all know but they aren't really Hillary and Bill they are there are speculations about the maid named theater may dialogue hasn't that kind of commentary been running your mind I mean for the past we've all been wondering what those conversations were like but I think it's ultimately not a play about politics in the way or about media or in the in the way that Inc and network are or about populism it's it's a play to some extent about you know where women are today in a way it's a great sequel he did a doll's house part two which was the sequel to a doll's house and I thought brilliant also with Laurie Metcalf and the in the lead and this in a way is a sequel to that it's how did you well it is looking at the way the public responds and I think that's what Jason's talking about but I think it depends on how you're defining populism it gets really loosey-goosey the way we talk about it today and in Hillary and Clinton they Nate is struggling with what is the way for a modern politician to appeal to the public Hillary is on ideas and intellect and Clinton is on the visceral and on the emotion where populism warms its way in there I'm not sure well the way I thought about is when I was watching that because they explained what went wrong with with Hillary often in terms of her relationship with Bill would build how she was had answer for his sins and I was thinking what would a Bernie being the other side of populism what would a Bernie Sanders voter think of this play which doesn't look it didn't say oh actually you know her politics or something I disagree with she's in bed with corporations not purely because of Bill mancine particularly interested in that as you say it wasn't a political play it was about the humanize Hillary Clinton it and so as a consequence it focused on her relationship with her husband and the impact that imposed and and also what kind of disguise a smart woman has to put on in order to be considered likable and the smartest moment for me it was I mean that incredible intersection where she sees herself crying or and you didn't remember crying and this supposedly was what made her candidate an electable candidate now before we go I want to ask you one thing what's what's a production that you thought was not recognized enough that you really loved Ono anywhere but I mean if we liked it that much we jumped up and down yes I see so it would be mortifying just say it okay something away from Broadway that might not be as high-profile that you really will stick in your mind we've we've mentioned Fairview which did win the Pulitzer we've mentioned slave play briefly destination this year dance nation was in love during the course of this past season we didn't really get to talk about some of the other plays by black playwrights but there were you know we been and I made a list in the times of ten plays that we both thought were pretty incredible that all opened in the last five years which is an amazing change that's happening that these playwrights like like like you said are are getting produced they're getting they're finally getting their first foot in the door of major productions and therefore we can assume that we'll see them in bigger venues and so interesting theatrically most of them and the way you were talking about new forms and experimenting with forms and and and blurring the lines between genres I do have to show everyone because we're here at the library for the performing arts this on lopa sitting here and this is the copy of take a look green grows the Lyle oh my gosh there's no songs in it and this is the kind of thing that they have up here at the library for the performing arts this beautiful and I've been cautioned I have to put it back in this little look at this the type it's just amazing with handwritten notes in it yeah alright well I want to thank you all Jason cinnamon great job you and Brantley at the New York Times Jan Simpson a Broadway radio and Jesse Green co-chief theater critic of the New York Times [Music] we welcome your questions or comments for theater talk thank you

Channel: Theater Talk Archive

Views: 18,619

Rating: 4.7842321 out of 5

Keywords: Theater Talk, lincoln center, tony awards, susan haskins, jesse green, ben brantley, jan simpson, jason zinoman, adam feldman, michael musto, elisabeth vincentelli, theater, broadway, Susan Haskins-Doloff, Tony Awards, theatre, New York public library for the performing arts, Theatre on Film and Tape Collection, Tony predictions, Tony Award Predictions, Be More Chill, Tootsie, Hadestown, Fairview, Hillary and Clinton, Scott Rudin

Id: uBeflXFkM3I

Length: 56min 47sec (3407 seconds)

Published: Tue Jun 04 2019

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THEATER TALK, the two-time Emmy Award-winning series, reunites its team of prominent theater journalists to assess the 2018-2019 theater season and discuss this year's TONY Awards race. Taped at the Bruno Walter Auditorium in The New York Public Library for the Performing Arts at Lincoln Center, the show's co-hosts Jesse Green, Co-Chief Theater Critic of The New York Times; Jason Zinoman, Comedy and Theater Critic for The New York Times and THEATER TALK Executive Producer Susan Haskins are joined by Ben Brantley, also Co-Chief Theater Critic of The New York Times; and Jan Simpson, Theater Correspondent for Broadway Radio.com; to discuss highlights of the past season.

Also on the program, THEATER TALK’s experts predict the TONYs for this year. Adam Feldman, Theater and Dance Editor for TimeOut/New York; Michael Musto, the Weekly Columnist for NewNowNext.com; and Elisabeth Vincentelli, Co-Host of Three on the Aisle and Theater Critic for both The New York Times and The New Yorker; join co-hosts Green and Haskins to explain who will win the coveted awards and why.