The True Meaning of Bravery with Gareth Southgate | FBLM Podcast

those moments where you're not in good form or you're not at your very best but you still put yourself forward and you still accept the challenge i think they're moments of really extreme bravery then it's you stepping out of your comfort zone and i think to achieve anything worthwhile in life there are moments we have to step out of what's comfortable for us [Music] scott for me what's really interesting is i've been flicking through your book for a few weeks and i'm aware that many people listening to my podcast or watching it probably are not going to be interested in football some will of course some won't be but i feel that the lessons that you're sharing the wisdom that you're sharing i feel has relevance for all of us whether football fans or non-football fans and that's because these are some quite core lessons for life yeah that that was the purpose of taking on the project really initially i obviously work a lot with young people um in my role and i also work do a lot of work with the prince's trust in particular and that age range of sort of 11 to 30 and i just felt that in the role i have mine is a voice that can be heard and that for young people especially but as we've gone through the process i think it's applicable to probably all ages there are lots of anxieties lots of um concerns lack of confidence lessons that you learn as you go through life which definitely transfer across professions um and so the initial hope was to produce something that for young people in a time of great uncertainty provides some comfort perhaps some inspiration and the recognition that they're not the only person feeling the way they do about certain situations in their life yeah that's something gareth that i learned very early on in my career as a doctor is the simple acts of listening to a patient and sometimes just simply saying hey you know what that must be really hard i i've already seen five people today who are sharing the same things as you are the the feeling people get when they know they're not the only ones i think is very very powerful and very much undervalued i think within my profession but actually within the public as well i i remember being in the dressing room uh after a big match within england and i always got a little bit apprehensive before games but as i got older i recognized i could control that um but we had a outstanding goalkeeper david seaman who you'll know from from previous big matches with arsenal in england and he was an unflappable character in everybody else's mind and he came in after the game and said ah god i was so nervous before the game and and i remember thinking oh my goodness that dave seaman even gets nervous and and it was a real um potent message and moment in that i then started to look around the dressing room a lot more carefully and saw how people behaved and how actually everybody was experiencing the same things am i going to be able to perform today am i in a good place mentally am i physically right but everybody hid those feelings in a different way and it was almost an unspoken in the dressing room and i've found that it's been very helpful as a coach to be able to recognize that that's a process that all players go through but under undoubtedly all people go through yeah and my ten-year-old son has been reading your book for the last couple of weeks i see him in bed at night flicking through and i don't know what age in fact what age group is it targets it for would you say well i would say 10 to our initial thought was 18 19 but i'm recognizing that there are messages in there that definitely work for people that are older and even if it's not directly for them maybe how they feed back to their children or how they recognize uh signs in their children where they might need support or help or the right sort of feedback yeah it's really interesting how different age groups are taking something from it gareth i would say there's universal life wisdom in there so i have learned things myself you know in my early 40s i can learn from some of these tools that are in the book and i think that's the beauty of some of these truths that exist yes we want to teach our young people these truths but they're just as relevant for us as adults and in some ways because it's communicated for young people actually i i learned this when i was doing some bbc one shows is that that the producer said to me if you want to um communicate with the public at large on bbc one in the evening you have to say in a way that an eight-year-old can understand it i remember gary thinking at the time oh you know i don't want to dilute my message you know i i you know i've got i've got um complex things to get across like that but but then i realized no no you're absolutely right if you can communicate it to an eight-year-old you can communicate the same idea to an 80 year old or a 40 year old and i think there's something very powerful about trying to communicate with that particular audience because i think you speak to so many people beyond that as well that's fascinating because when we're working with the team one of our challenges is that we would have a lot of information that we would like to give them but we're always having to think how do we make complex situations simple and how much information do we give them so that they're not clouded and they're not confused and yet to to as you to work as you have and communicate to a mass audience as we're seeing now with government messaging it really does need to be as simple as possible and as and the clarity is really crucial yeah i mean imagine communication is something that will always have been important to you in your role certainly i don't know every stage of your career but i but i know from reading that you've often been a captain um you're now the manager of the england football team which is the national sport so therefore the pressure um and the intensity that may come with that but ultimately your ability to do your job i'm guessing in a large part comes down to your ability to communicate with your players with your team but also with the media so in terms of communication that also feels that it's one of those transferable skills you have this beautiful thing at the end of the book the transfer list and i really like it i think it's a lovely thing for children to look at and go well this skill is going to stand me in good stead in a whole variety of different roles in my life and i wonder you know were you always a good communicator is that something you've worked on yourself and do you now consider yourself to be a better communicator than you were let's say compared to the start of your career well no question um i was quite an intricate in terms of personality my natural tendency is to be slightly withdrawn that's where i get my energy that's where i'm probably more comfortable um and it's only through experience of having to step up and maybe initially i don't know read things in assembly at school or read things in some in front of a class and slowly because i in the football sense was probably a bit more sensible than some of the others i ended up as the captain and so you're in a leadership position um partly by default at first really but you're given more opportunities to develop and each time you are confronted by those new situations you learn you you get things wrong you learn you adapt you reflect on how it might have been better and so there's no question that i then started to study other people and how they interacted and i think the biggest lesson i've learned across that period of time from going from playing to managing was that i probably at the start would communicate with all of the team in the same way treat everybody the same that was fair um but actually that doesn't work because we're all individual we all respond in different ways we all have different interests we all have different strengths and so the ability to communicate across different levels i think is really important from a coaching perspective especially now that's very very fascinating to me gareth because i think i'm thinking about the audience who are listening right now and there will be people who run companies or are managers of employees but they'll also be parents who've got various members of the family right so and what i always think we can learn something from every single person we meet and i feel we can also learn from the so-called elite in society and i say that in inverted commas because you know something we can explore later on but we do put people like yourself and footballers on a pedestal and i think there are some potential negatives across society of doing that but i feel we all want high performance in our own life you know i want a high performance as a doctor as a husband and as a father you want to help your players perform well as footballers and so if you're saying that the way to get the best out of an elite football team is that you've learned to communicate differently i'm feeling that there's a huge take home there for all of us and that maybe the message that we give to one of our employees or our colleagues has to be altered when we're talking to other people so i wonder if you could just sort of explain to us how do you do that if you're trying to communicate with everyone is it something you pick up with intuition do you have to do this separately i'm basically trying to trying to see what are the kind of take-home tools for us non-elite footballers and how can we apply that on our own lives well well i think family is fascinating example of that because anybody that has more than one child will know that they are totally different so the nature nurture argument is is a fascinating one my two have grown up in the same household they're four years apart in terms of their age but completely different characters and um so i would have to deal with them differently and it's no different with the team i'm old enough to be dad to most of the team um so having an understanding of their background their interests their motivations um their all their stories are so different and the way they're the way their brains are wired is slightly different some have far greater individual motivation some are um on the personality profiles they'd be they'd want more structure they'd want more order some want brief communication some want to sit and chat and talk about life more generally not just football and i think the more you can understand your staff or your players because it i i think this is transferable our staff are just as important in our team we've got more staff than we have players so also getting them aligned and making their work purposeful and making them feel valued then the team can really fly because they've got the best support around them that they could have do you think being the manager and learning how to deal with that role pressure intensity expectation and your ability to handle that do you think that's made you a better parent well being being a parent has probably made me a better england manager um i i think that you're i'm always if i'm reading a book i'm always looking at what might this mean for work what might this mean for home and um sometimes it would be nice just to sit and read a book and enjoy it and go with it but but i'm always kind of attributing these little lines and phrases and and observations i definitely think that i've got better at dividing my time um and switching off at home you know i recognize that when i was a younger manager and and also the club game is relentlessly um week after week day after day with the international team we get some breaks but i have to make sure that i give my family time and give myself time to recharge and re-energize and i think that separation of work from home for me is really important how do you do that gareth because i think that that time to switch off and recharge and relax is something that has slowly been eroded out of society i think technology is a huge part of that i don't want to blame technology so i don't necessarily think it's it's the tool it's you know it's what gap does that feel that's how do we use it and i have talked about that on the podcast before but i'm interested as to how do you when frankly this very you know it's one of the highest profile roles in british society you know i mean people can argue that but i certainly think it's certainly right up there so how do you manage to switch off because many people who are not in such elite role say they struggle it's too hard for them to do that so i wonder if there's anything that we can learn from you in terms of the sort of routines and strategies you put in place to allow yourself to do that yeah i think a fascinating area firstly so important to delegate and to show trust in your staff that work with you again when i was a younger coach i thought i had to do everything i thought i had to be the bearer of all knowledge and the expert in every area and that's a impossible and and be definitely impossible for me so i've got brilliant people that work with me which means i share the load firstly um secondly then i have to find the right times to switch off there are times during the year where i need to be aware of what's being written and what's being said because i need to have an understanding of what's going on in the world and there are certain topics i might be asked about in a press conference but then there are other times when to read the media or read social media would just fill my head with negativity and indecision and would actually distract me and i know that there are times when i've read things and it's changed my mood and how i feel and i think that's a massive concern for me with everybody but especially young people who can be so affected and influenced by social media and i know from experience i very rarely read everything and feel better about life whereas actually if i switch off from the media for a few days when we're in camp everything could be breaking out around me and there could be all sorts of criticism of the team but i don't feel any of that pressure that you're talking about because i'm just looking at how we performed logically talking to the staff around me and working strategically to improve so i think there's a real challenge as you said things like um email originally was brilliant you know we've got this tool now that we we don't have to walk to the post box post a letter and wait three days for a reply we can get an instant reply but now we get this little noise on our phone that pings that that sends the brain into an area that's not relaxing and not switching off and even the idea of working from home during lockdown which originally everybody thought how great for work-life balance now we're sat in the office from seven till seven and the danger is we never come out of the office and we never have that switch-off point so i think it's a fascinating area yeah for sure i mean i i reframe working from home for people as you're now living at work and it totally changes everything it's like oh yeah no wonder i'm stressed out all the time no wonder i've got no time to switch off but but you know gary this this this area is something i'm so passionate about and it's this idea that you're in camp you've got to have high performance from yourself and from your your team and your staff right so what point does external opinion become helpful and at what point does it detract from what you're doing and i think that's a really fascinating scenario that we can all think about because it's never been easier than to get an opinion on what you're doing right you just post about it and then you know there's no shortage of people uh willing to share their opinion particularly if you ring the manager because everyone kind of thinks they could do a better job you know it's one of those things why did he pick him you know i would have done that i would have put this guy on the left wing you know it's one of those we all think we can do the job right but only one of us is doing it and it was interesting for me that you said there are various times when you do think it's important to hear what the world is saying and there's times when it isn't and i'm wondering how you determine what that thing is because i find the more i switch off to opinions whether it's on this podcast or when i'm writing a book like i feel i can start to come you know i can start to feel what i really think i'm not as influenced as much by what the world thinks because if you hear enough opinions if you hear the same opinion 20 times you start to think that's what you think but i've been questioning is it what i think or is it just what everyone around me is saying and therefore i believe it and i don't know if you have any well how do you decide when you do need to know rather than when you can switch off yeah i think that's that is a really good challenge to ask because um there's no question if you keep reading the same things then in the end it affects your ability to make a decision um without any bias and um trying to make decisions without bias when we're dealing with a talent program and we're dealing with uh selection um is is very very difficult because you form opinions of players you form opinions of people and we've really got to have an open mind to people you know young people especially can improve so quickly they can turn around behaviors they can rehabilitate things they can maybe move to a different environment a different club and receive a an injection of energy and motivation so it's very important to keep an open mind and i have to make sure that within the group of staff we work with we've got people who have different views of the world and who are prepared to challenge and i think for any leader that's um one of the biggest challenges you face are people really prepared to give you an honest opinion um and go against what the leader might think and very often that means i would i'll withhold my own opinion until a lot of other people have spoken so that i'm not affecting their their freedom to speak and they're feeling that or am i safe if i go against what the what the boss is thinking now that word safe i think is is huge because i think ultimately what we're all craving is that feeling of safety whether it's in our relationship with our partner with our boss with our colleagues with our friends you know that whole idea of oh are we okay to really express how we feel without getting a lambasting or being um criticized or feeling stupid or shameful and you know i know we share a mutual friend in pippa grange and when pippa came on the podcast it was a huge hit with the listeners and the viewers i i love what she talks about how fear ultimately is that the root of many of our behaviors and our actions and our remote you know that's often the root emotion that drives a lot of the the way that we are but you know is this something you had to learn you know you you've always been a leader you're a captain you're a manager was it hard initially when somebody would say hey i completely disagree i actually would do it this way you know did you have to learn to not take that personally was that a process you had to go through because i think many of us were scared actually we feel as though it is personal but actually it's not personal it's just someone's got a different opinion and that's okay yeah i think um i think generally i've always been open to suggestions of how to improve because as a player i was a sponge really i wasn't the most talented player so i knew i had to maximize my ability and whether there was some advice that could improve my diet or improve me physically or improve me tactically i always was searching for the next book the next um the next person that that could deliver something that i might take to improve i think what i found took me a while as a manager was to recognize that that some staff have a reluctance to speak out they maybe fear losing their job or they maybe fear losing that relationship and until you have real trust as a group that you can speak as openly as we're talking about then i think people are reticent to give a really strong opinion worried that you might think oh well that opinion is no good so they as a person are not up to the not up to the task and that's just simply not the case and if you've got a group of staff who are holding back how how much are we missing out on you know how much improvement as a group are we missing out on if people aren't offering new ideas yeah absolutely what's interesting to me gareth is that i remember when the world cup started in 2018 my kids school asked me to give a talk for their speech day and i thought to myself and how am i going to connect with these kids and i thought well everyone's watching the world cup at the moment everyone's kind of the sun shining and everyone's happy with how the team are doing you know which you obviously know that what the sort of feeling and the national feeling of pride and buzz that happens when england advance in a tournament i thought well this is a way to connect with them this is a way to get them to connect with me and listen to what i have to say and i use various examples but you came up because one thing that i think impressed everyone was the way you interacted the respects you had the the kindness the there was just such a warmth from you that i certainly saw that much the country saw that made us feel good and i really focus on that with the kids um you know and and they really got it and i really thought it was a powerful message to teach them that many of them still stop me at the the school gate and talk to me about that so that's that's a really nice thing but you know where did you get this from is this something that you know has always been there when you you just seem like a decent human being who who thinks it's the right thing to treat everyone the way you'd like to be treated yourself but that's not always the impression the public gets of football and footballers yeah yeah i i i think the the line you used there i i was always brought up in that way treat people as you would like to be treated and i think a lot of that came from my parents and then a couple of youth coaches i had when i was mid to late teens they were very big on developing us as a group of p as as men as well as as footballers and they would drum it into us that look we actually when i was in the reserves at crystal palace we we couldn't feel the full team so we had half the team who were apprentices half were young professionals and we would bring guys in who played in the local non-league um so they'd play on a saturday for some beer money but they but they um had a job and we had a guy that played um who used to work at covent garden flower market so he would go to work at three in the morning um do his shift and come and play for us in the reserves we were full-time and he was our best player so so it really gave us the balance of hang on a minute we're not we're not so special here and there's another world out there that sometimes as young professionals you're not conscious of i think some of the guys that come into the game a bit later we've got a couple now tyrone wings has had a journey where um you know he was working for a living playing non-league football has gone on a long journey and is now in england international of course he has different life experiences that have made him more rounded and a different appreciation for the position he's in perhaps um and i think that's key we are ordinary people doing an extraordinary job simple as that we're not any better or worse we don't uh we still have the same issues that everybody has at home you know we've we're all got kids who are worried about exams and what the future's going to hold and um but we just happen to be in a high profile role at this moment in time yeah it's a lovely way to look at it you mentioned before gareth that you always knew that maybe you weren't the best player but you always looked for these little things that you know i guess you could upskill let's say your weaknesses you know what can i learn how can i improve my diet a little bit how can i improve that and that's it made me think of the book because there's one line that i wrote down you said it's it's really important to be able to identify your strengths and i really liked that and you know having awareness is such an important skill for kids teenagers adults you know without awareness we can't really change we can't progress you know we need that awareness so it's it's interesting for me that you you talk about that in the book you talk about kindness you talk about bravery you talk about perception of things and how we can change that perception there's a theme of controlling the controllables and you know i just spent the last couple of days really diving deep into stoic philosophy and they're very much into i don't know okay let me give an example they're very much into controlling the controllable so from what i've read there's a story that is often referred to about you know if you're an archer okay so you shouldn't be worried about whether you hit the target or not you should be worried about or not worried you should focus on practicing cleaning your bow cleaning your arrow you can you know all the things within your control how you take the bow back everything until the arrow has left the bow because at that point what happens to it is out of your control whether it hits the target whether the wind blows all those things you know there's nothing you can do about that it's about controlling on the it's controlling the controllables in your life and i i'm interested as how the archery story plays into you as a football manager in terms of what i imagine there may be some themes there that that that sort of resonate in terms of what you say to footballers absolutely and i think when we're if i reflect on being a player i was so focused on we have to win uh and i have to play perform well and i wasn't good at breaking that down indirectly i was doing it because we were training well all week and what i know now is that you transfer the way you train through the week into the game on a saturday but i hadn't broken those targets down and so if i talked to our team about being world champions well that's exciting but it's also a bit scary because when we took over the team we were 14th in the world so although we might think we can be first that's a big leap and that the bigger the leap the bigger the pressure if if you feel that actually there isn't so much evidence of results that you can get there so to get to first in the world we've got to start to regularly beat the best teams but that's also a little bit too far away well how are we going to beat the best teams what are we going to do each day in our preparation and how are we going to prepare individually for training so that we're ready to train well every day and very slowly you you break these things down into small chunks i talked about the time i ran a marathon where i'd never run further than five kilometers but if you can run five you can probably run six and slowly you build it up and it doesn't seem so unmanageable and i think that's something as young people especially we can we can break those things down and they're not worrying too far ahead no no no can you get the right amount of sleep can you eat the right things can you get exercise and then then you'll be able to be focused in your lessons and you'll be able to concentrate better and you'll be open to listening a bit more and and slowly you're working towards the ultimate goal yeah now i love that you know that whole process over outcome journey over destination it's and i think that's one of the powerful things about you writing this book is so many young kids and teenagers love football they look up to footballers so as you shared before a footballer who also feels nervous before a game oh wow i didn't oh man i didn't know he felt nervous like he scores goals every week he feels nervous oh maybe it's okay for me to feel nervous in my life before my exam that's very powerful because you know i've always said you know it's clear to me that we connect over stories it's not logical facts that changes human beings minds it's a connection through our hearts through storytelling and i think that's where these stories that you put in the book is so valuable for people i mean gary there's a big thing on bravery in the book and actually it's in the subtitle i think yeah anything is possible is the name of the book be brave be kind and follow your dreams i want to break down those three things in the subtitle starting with bravery i want to know what exactly you mean by bravery and the quote from your book that i wrote down was bravery doesn't always come naturally but it exists in all of us but we have to understand ourselves first that was really powerful for me and i wonder if you'd mind expanding yeah with the um with the football team as an example bravery when i was playing was considered a physical thing and um you you went into the big tackles and you put your body on the line and and yeah actually what about the little skinny kid who was playing on the wing he was actually always available for the ball where some of the bigger guys were hiding because they were frightened of losing the ball and and so he might actually have been the bravest person on the pitch because not only was he the smallest so he was getting kicked by everybody and had to find a way to survive so lots of skillful players are skillful because they had to survive amongst the big kids and they found a way of developing their skills but he also had the mental toughness and resilience to take the ball even if the team were losing and he was giving the ball away he'd come back for it again and sometimes those moments where you're not in good form or you're not at your very best but you still put yourself forward and you still accept the challenge i think there are moments of really extreme bravery um and i talk in the book about that moment we've all been in where we're in a crowded room and somebody says any questions and most of us have got one and none of us put our hand up and that happens in the football dressing room it happens in the classroom and i really admire the kids who do put their hands up because that as i've tried to explain to them is that is the first sign of bravery you know you've been bold enough to put your hand up um and your contribution might be right might not be right but it it's valid and it's you stepping out of your comfort zone and i think to achieve anything worthwhile in life there are moments we have to step out of what's comfortable for us yeah yeah i love that as you say that i i think gareth about that word bravery and how much of it has been influenced by masculineness and potentially i mean i don't love the term but potentially that whole concept of toxic masculinity and you know what does it mean to be brave or what does it mean to be a man because ultimately the bravest thing as you say is in many ways it's about vulnerability isn't it authenticity can you really be yourself can i i actually believe that the bravest thing we can do and it's what i guess i'm on a personal quest to do for myself but i see it all around me is are you brave enough to be you like really you or do you do you want to keep all these masks on and hides you know bravery as you say it's not about necessarily that big hard tackle it's about being able to take off those masks and say this is who i am warts and all well i think i would never have written this book 15 years ago um because i would have been worried that a people would have would have had a strong strong view of what you know why are you talking about these things i wouldn't have wanted to open up about some of the failures that i had in the same way i would have felt that was a weakness um and i would have been worried that people would be saying well he's not focusing on the job why isn't he just getting on with his job and yet actually i know that i've got a few days holiday i'm not going to be flying off anywhere so to spend some time actually working on this book and a project that i hope will help other people that's become important in my life and so yes i've definitely opened up about things that i would have kept um to myself in the past and that's probably because i'm older i've made so many mistakes i'm less worried about them um i know i'm gonna make more i accept my fall abilities but also i know i'm in a role where my voice might land with some people and help them and um that's why i took this project on really and it links with the prince's trust as well and their work around you know helping young people to develop it's interesting as you talk about that transition from 15 years ago 10 years ago you wouldn't have released a book like this you wouldn't have written it you wouldn't have um put it out there because of the fear of what would people say about me right what you do when you can be brave in that context and i really love the way you talk about bravery which i asked about it is it's a freer way to live because if you show the world who you are warts and all then there's nothing to hide from anymore because this is what what you see is what you get there's nothing there that i've hidden that you can expose me for now i put it all out on the table and i i wonder how that plays into elite footballers because there is such a microscope on the england players there is such judgment on footballers when they they may take one foot wrong um and it's really interesting how do you sort of how do you help your footballers be more themselves yeah really really good question um the intensity and the immediate reaction has never been stronger and more difficult for them so of course there's the obvious that they're rewarded financially better than any previous generation of players but the restrictions on them because of that and the expectations of them because of that they've grown exponentially and i don't think it's as much fun and and i'm a bit old-fashioned but i do think work's got to be fun as well there's got to be you know the joy in enjoyment is is a big big part of that word and um when when you start playing a sport or you start doing something that you love maybe playing an instrument or cooking or artist you you generally do it because you love doing it and one of the biggest challenges is when it then becomes your job it becomes too serious and you lose the essence of why you started and i think that's one of the challenges we have with the players all the time how can we make them feel as free as when they were playing as young kids when there's all this expectation and noise and judgment and restrictions on how they live um you know for everybody at the moment we're all experiencing that that we can't go and do the things we'd like to do we can't meet friends we lose that social aspect and quite often we put teams in that situation to prepare for big matches as a course of habit and actually is that the best way of getting the maximum performance out of people i would say no but that's probably the fear of us as coaches because we think well if we give them too much freedom and then they go and let us down then the media will come for us and said we've got no discipline and we're not preparing properly and so you're in this constant flex of what what's the right thing to do yeah and again it comes down to yeah if we do that what will people say which again takes us away from who we are and actually what we actually think is the right way to go because we always want that external validation we all like you know it's oh you know they've done a really good job you know i'm sure it's nice to read for everyone but it's when that becomes our our primary reason for doing things i think it we can start to walk a very very problematic line you mentioned fun and again i love the fact that there's a section on fun in the book um and i talk about some pics i came across some research a few years ago that showed that regularly doing things that you enjoy makes you more resilient to stress but at the same time being chronically stressed makes it harder for you to experience pleasure in day-to-day things so it's kind of it was really it's always been fascinating to me and as someone who's very passionate about health and well-being and how actually it can be accessible to everyone not just the wealthy i think everyone in society can have access to it if we can simplify the messaging and make it relevant but i think we forget about fun sometimes like fitness and well-being can be fun and it's interesting to you as an england manager that you've figured out that actually because i imagine for these players you know they probably started off as kids just loving kicking a ball around and they just happen to be very good at it so they progress and it's like oh you know i quite fancy being a footballer and then you know what for a few of them they end up being that footballer but all they probably wanted to do when they were kids is just kick a ball around so how do you inject that fun into their lives and what benefits have you seen from doing so i think when we started we recognized that um and i experienced this as a player playing for england as soon as you put the shirt on it was very heavy the weight of expectation and frankly for decades we haven't been very good really and i'm including the teams i played in in that we reached two semi-finals in 50 years so where actually is this expectation coming from and what i wanted this generation of players to recognize is that um they shouldn't be burdened by the failures of the previous themes though it's almost as if the levels of criticism grew because you know the team five years ago let us down and here we go again and well this group deserve the right to be treated uniquely this is the first time they've been together as a team they can write their own story we talked a lot about writing their own stories um writing their own history we're privileged to wear the shirt for a period of time and there were people before us and there'll be people after us but we can be the first to do lots of things and to think about what's possible rather than what might go wrong was a bit of the mindset mindset shift that we felt needed to happen so we set out with our junior teams in particular the the the aim was that they wanted to come back um and that they didn't find a way to pull out of a squad because they were injured or when a lot of the time maybe they just didn't want to be there because it was too much pressure and and therefore not enjoyable so i think our guys now look forward to coming back together as an england team it's a unique environment for them at their clubs they love playing for their clubs but there are also lots of players from other countries so there's a different environment they actually quite enjoy coming together as an england group because i also noticed when i played with lads from australia or france or brazil they loved going home to play for their national team and just getting back with their people from their own country and seeing their families and those things and it was almost like we didn't have that with england and a lot of these guys that play in our team now have played together since they well we've got a couple who were in the same team at eight years old um but lots of them have played together at 15 16 17. so they're just coming back with their mates a bit like going back to your university mates or your schoolmates and we're all back together and we're sharing the stories and they just sit around and enjoy each other's company as much as anything else it's when you reflect on that it's such an obvious thing with hindsight like most things are in hindsight it's like well if you want to perform well of course this should be an environment where people want to come where they're like i can't wait to get back with the gang you know as you say you draw some some useful analogies there and it's the same analogy for a workplace you know or a culture at work or a culture in a family environment this has to be a place where your kids want to come and hang because actually it's fun and they get something out of it or the same for for workplaces i really i love seeing the parallels between what you're doing with the england team and and football team culture but also work culture home culture family culture because frankly there's a few things that make human beings tick whether you what what whatever sport you play whatever whatever arena you're in it's the kind of same basic principles we want to be heard we want to be loved we want to have fun we want to enjoy ourselves we want to be able to be brave ie be ourselves and not be criticized for being who we are actually when you think about it it's quite simple isn't it but it's but it just isn't we're not as complicated as we might think we are really are we so i i think we've also noticed um we've had to operate slightly differently through the pandemic because we've had to take extra precautions around covid and so within our camps had to wear masks more we've had to distance more we've had to be sat further apart in meetings that's not been enjoyable you know that that hasn't been enjoyable because we're immediately walking into an environment where we're restricted we're not able to be free um and then we're asking the players to go and play with freedom on the pitch and um it's counterintuitive really and of course they miss having the supporters in the stadium because there's no immediate reaction to the skills they produce or the good pieces of play or or the effort that they're making so it's a very strange environment for all sports people at the moment and i'm guessing the same for music artists or you know there's lots of people are performing in front of no live audience and that that is a very strange environment for everybody have you seen certain personalities cope better with that because i think that's a that's a fascinating thing for us to ponder you know you're a sports when you're used to playing in front of pat's arenas and then you do something good and then you know i've spent a lot of my life in football stadiums um the cheer the raw the energy you know that just gives you that must give you an extra an extra gear right so without that you know it's kind of you you're stripping away all the external noise and you're kind of left with who are you without all that right it's quite an existential question for many of us but what you know it's interesting to me have you of course i don't want you to be specific at all but could you have predicted which personalities have coped better and which ones actually needed the crowds and without it they just can't get themselves going good yeah good question i i don't necessarily think it's been quite as clear-cut as that fair enough but i think what what we are seeing are that it's impossible to reach quite the same level of performance because there's this um there's this additional five ten percent that that adrenaline can only give you and if there's nobody there and there's nobody to watch there's an energy that's missing so i think the players across the board are doing remarkably well to perform as well as they are but i do think most people watching their team would say they're not quite as consistent or they're not quite reaching the levels that they that they maybe have done at their very best i think it's really hard to find that discretional performance without without that additional um energy but then there are some younger players perhaps or some players who can be inhibited by the crowd who are flourishing um because of course there are two parts to the reaction of the crowd there's the approval and then there's the other side and for a youngster coming in to make his debut there are some players we don't know we're missing some evidence of how they're going to be in the future because we're only seeing them perform with no pressure of fans in the stadium so when the team aren't playing so well and the pass is mislaid or you know the goalkeeper drops the ball or whatever it might be that that negative reaction and the negative energy can inhibit players and um so so in that aspect they're not suffering in that way and some of them are a little bit freer perhaps yeah i wonder if there might be a learning opportunity there like if we really you know i'm not i'm not trying to pretend i know how to england manager just to be super clear right i don't i'm just i'm just wondering there because i'm i'm thinking about how many people in their workplaces some people may have thrived without i don't know office politics and pressure on how you're dressed in the workplace or whatever it might be that that makes them not feel free compared to a home where they can maybe just be in their jogger bottoms and like not to worry about what they look like they can just crack on with their job you know some people probably have thrived other people have probably missed the human concept but i wonder if there is a learning opportunity for all of us but even for some of those footballers to go so assuming everything does return one day to being pac stadiums and people watching like i'd be interested you know if we ever have a conversation again it would be interesting to know you know are there some learning points that hey you're great when there's no crowd but actually with the crowd your performance has gone down that's interesting okay let's really look at that five percent elements and try and figure out what's going on there why did the crowd make you seemingly worse in terms of performance and when with another player it's like oh the crowd helps you do you know what i mean i i still believe and we have had different psychologists working with our team for the last four or five years but i still think that psychology is the biggest untapped advantage in in our sport most you know we we've covered most other areas of development but there's still a reticence and of course the manager the head coach has to be a psychologist as well and most would view themselves as the chief psychologist on the team but i think actually there's even more that we can achieve with individual work with players and when i was playing there was a fear of that people didn't want to expose themselves they thought it might affect selection whereas in other sports definitely the individual sports like tennis and golf it's just it's just considered common practice to work with a psychologist you know you've got to you've got a putt to win the masters and five-footer and you're standing over it why wouldn't you work with somebody that can get you mentally in the right place and tennis players who have to put a bad shot behind them and then go and serve immediately those sorts of mental skills i still think in football we're scratching the surface some players are really open to it but i think we could still make the crowd observation is a classic example of somebody actually unpicking that and working with an individual player and helping them improve yeah i mean i think the mind is untap potential for all of us i really feel that understanding our mind being able to work on our minds getting that mental fitness better just like we work on physical fitness frankly it's what i spend a lot of my free time doing that he says is how how can i have a karma minds how can i make the space between stress and response bigger what can i do where i can actually have that detachment and actually not just you know not just react but appropriately respond i think that's the goal for all of us i think it improves our relationships you know i you know but but of course as a footballer as well i mean gary you strike me as someone who as i said before is just a genuinely nice guy so how do you tell somebody that they're no longer being selected for the england squad when it's possibly been their life's ambition and they've worked hard and they've got in but i'm sure at some point you have to tell someone that bad news you know what's your approach to it yeah as my son says dad sometimes you're a dream wrecker aren't you and uh it's the most for me the most uncomfortable part of the job um we we all enjoy giving people good news and um you can imagine every player that's in our squad is a very good player they're to get to that point they've overcome so many hurdles and so many disappointments um but at their club they're all in the team and they they're used to playing every week and we have 23 usually in the squad so as soon as i name a team i've got 12 who are unhappy and 11 who are happy that's that balance isn't really a very good one um but what i find is that i i'm always honest i think people need honest feedback for for several reasons they i think if you try to soft soap or sweeten the message generally you you're not you've got to give them something to go away and work at that can help them to get back in the team so if there's information about their game that needs improving i think that honest feedback is important because it's it's something that you can then refer back to and as a coach you can help them to improve so our job should be to help them all to be good enough to come back into the team or in a better space to come back into the team um but also i think if if we're not delivering that message with clarity but also with empathy then you you lose the respect of the of the players and um i remember a couple of times i was left out of the team and i didn't really get clear feedback from the manager and i lost a bit of respect for him because of that and there were other managers that left me out of the team who gave me very clear feedback and i didn't particularly like it at the time but when i went away and reflected on it i i had to say hmm um he's right there that's he's right and i know now what i need to go away and work at so i don't find those conversations comfortable um and i know on my personality profile now that those conversations cost me more energy than than other parts of my job but if those conversations don't happen then and i just put a team on the board without telling somebody they were being left out and why well that creates even more problems in the group i think i think players respect the fact that you speak to them and they respect the fact they might not agree with the decision but i think they appreciate the fact that you've taken the time to explain it to them um and then and then it's part of their responsibility then to go away and work at the things to that you're suggesting to to improve and make themselves yeah i really appreciate you sharing that because i think there's a lot of lessons for all of us in that i think you know i call myself a people pleaser in recovery you know i'm i'm i'm i'm i'm a lot less of a people pleaser than i used to be and i've i've unpacked before where that comes from i desire to be loved desire to be likes but it but it but it comes from a place of not feeling enough it certainly has in me and as i become more secure in who i am i feel i've changed the way i deliver messages like that because i feel the old me would very much have tried to sugarcoat a message right and actually spoke to to arianna huffington recently on the show and she has a way off she they've got a term in her organization called compassionate directness and it's really great if you just google it i think you would actually really enjoy it from what i can tell from reading your book gareth is it's it's kind of what you're saying it's sort of you say it's how you deliver it it's honest it's direct but it's delivered with empathy and i think all of us can learn from that with with colleagues with our with our partners you know not trying to just sugarcoat what you know not really saying what we really feel it's kind of i guess in some ways it goes back to our conversation embra on bravery before gareth about real vulnerability and honesty you know as you said you you may not have liked it in the moment but you absolutely appreciate it afterwards on reflection i mean have you have you changed that do you feel early on in your career you sugarcoated that sort of delivery and you've learned that hey you know what i can improve here definitely yeah definitely um i i think i went on some development courses um we we're quite good in our organization we we do uh 360 feedback from different members of staff and sometimes in the past people might have said oh i'm not quite sure whether gareth agrees with this or whether he doesn't agree with it and i was thinking well i'm sure where i am so therefore my communication isn't right and um yeah it in the short term i suppose it's a bit like sending your children to bed you know there's there's been a disagreement or they've done something wrong and you send them to bed and then i would when they were younger i would sit there and think how long can i leave it before i go up and see them and give them a cuddle and make it all feel better you know and that's kind of how it is with the players they come you know i call them into the into a room or we'll go and have a cup of coffee and i explain the decision and i know they're going to leave there for you know certainly for us period they hate me for sure they're not happy with the decision they don't like me and that's not somewhere i want to be really because we all want to be liked really but i recognize now okay i've got to work through that i've got to let them have that moment i've got to let them get their emotions out of the way and then we've got to find a way forward of working together hopefully i think i'm very clear that it's not a personal thing it's just a decision for that game or it's the decision on how i view them in compared to some other players and they're all good players so i've got to make sure that they understand that it's not that they're not a good player i don't want them to lose confidence in what they're doing but i'm making it's one person's decision based on this moment in time and there's a route back into the team and and those doors are always open so i think that's an important process and it's very important for the harmony of the group as well because you need the guys that aren't starting the game to be ready to come into the game and also supportive of the rest of the team if there's any sports coaches of children listening to this show at the moment or parents whose children are you know keen sports advocates or i think martial arts advocates or whatever it is that they like doing do you feel that sort of message of compassionate directness honesty kindness empathy i mean how important is it that people around the country around the world who are in charge of young people in some way how important is it that they apply principles and messages like that in their own lives i think crucial if we're a teacher or a coach our job is to help other people improve and be the best version of themselves so i don't think our job is just to be critical um our job is to find people doing something well is to recognize when they're doing things well our job is to we can't always give them all the answers but we can show them where the answers might lie or we can make suggestions as to to where they can improve but then there has to be ownership from the pupil or the player of their own they've also got to take personal responsibility so if they start to say oh it's just because the coach doesn't like me or doesn't deal with me in the right way well also when i was a player it was my responsibility to make myself as selectable as possible so what's what does this coach look for and and it's important that i think as an athlete you're able to ask questions of the coach to to see how do i how do i make myself selective but if i'm not in the team if if you're not getting the right level of feedback so i do think sometimes we think that being the manager or the coach is all about finding the errors and finding the mistakes and nitpicking and and sometimes that can just be you know if you said to somebody why did you do that you'd say yeah i know i i was wrong i actually i was looking to pass there and i just they know the error usually they know the errors that they've made it's more when there's a trend of behaviors or a consistent technical problem that maybe we can start to resolve or look at or improve individual errors yeah they're going to happen i think they're going to happen it's when there are consistent things that are wrong you're looking for patterns that that's when you can coach and that's when you can help people to improve i've read and heard that you're very passionate about mental health and you know is that something that's always been there or you know is it something that has evolved throughout your career because mental health is something that is getting more and more prominence these days and having someone in a position of prominence like yourself talking about and being passionate about it i think is very very powerful but i'm interested on a personal level where has that interest come from in you i think a greater understanding really that um this is an area that is far more common um for people to find difficult and i think the world is becoming more complex and lives um the lives of young people especially but but all people really we talked about there being no switch-off we talked about the impact of social media you know young people in the old days might have been bullied at school but when they came home for most that was a safe place of course there would have been children who suffered at home but if they were being bullied at school home was safe now they can be attacked you know you know online in their own home there's almost no escape there's no safe place um and i feel that's just one area of the world changing and becoming more difficult to handle there's also this really critical i feel as if there's an enhanced negativity with what we're all going through everybody's dissatisfied at the restrictions and we want a way out of what we're living through at the moment and of course there's not the freedom to live our lives as we should there's not the social interactions there's not the basic human needs that we thrive on so i think the next few years as well with the economy and everything else that that entails are going to be our biggest challenge around mental health where i'm encouraged is that this this conversation is definitely out there now and it's not being hidden and there's a lot more discussion about it on television and a recognition that i love the phrase you use mental fitness i think we talk about physical fitness but mental health feels almost like a phrase that brings stigma with it mental fitness is a different way of looking at it hang on this is something that i can work out i can get better at i can almost start to take control of yeah i think it's just an interesting way of reframing i don't know i i certainly can't claim originality with that i you know i may have heard it myself but i love it as a concept because we get physical fitness don't we we get that it's like you know i'm gonna we all know what physical fitness means and and it's it's kind of an aspiration it's i want to get fitter i can practice and get fitter physically and it's no different you know come back to what you said about the untapped potential for footballers and i think all of us is in our minds well why wouldn't we work on our mental fitness and you know why you know it's it's arguably one of the most important things to work on because it impacts all of your interactions not just how fast you can run but actually i would argue your mental fitness is absolutely going to have a downstream positive consequence on your physical fitness because if you get this right your physicality is going to come like as a consequence of that um so i think it is a is a nice term for people to reflect on you know social media is something i i talk about a lot i have real concerns you know i'm not anti-technology but i do feel that we don't quite know the impact of all this stuff we're seeing you know really quite worrying documentaries like the social dilemma then if you've seen that or not on netflix but i'm interested with the footballers social media the pressures that we all feel on social media are frankly ramped up to a completely different degree if you're an england footballer a the number of followers b the fact that you simply cannot have that larger following even if you have one percent of negativity that is a lot of people right when you have that level of following so is there something you've had to within the organization teach footballers how to manage social media how to manage the pressures with that because i'm wondering if we can learn anything from what they learn well unfortunately we haven't cracked it so so of course there have been really positive examples of some of our players using social media to make a massive difference in society raheem sterling talking about racism marcus rashford with with his his projects on feeding um feeding the nation's children so so we've seen the very best of what social media can bring um but i don't know how they live with it because i don't know about you but if i get 10 10 lovely comments it's only the one negative one that i that i'm drawn to and i'm thinking and playing it back in my head the the ten positive ones are gone and i think you'll know this better than me but i think the brain is wide to have more negative thoughts we have a negativity bias it's what's kept us alive for our evolution you know we we before we lived you know relatively safe lives um and i appreciate i'm saying that in you know in a very challenging year but relatively safe compared to the way we used to live you know we had to be wired to look for that negative is that a line that's approaching the camp you know that's what would keep us alive so we've still got that ancient heart wiring and we're trying to you know our brains are using that in the modern worlds where you know um professor robin dunbar this evil evolutionary biologist has something called the dunbar number saying that our brains have only evolved to know i think over the course of our entire life 150 people right that's it and so if you think about how many contacts and followers and you know friends we have on social media now it's far beyond what these brains are wide for so to say you i think the fact that you guys haven't corrected it probably gives us all a lot of hopes to go okay those guys with all their kind of money and resource on being with football team haven't cracked it well maybe we could take the pressure off ourselves a little bit in terms of us not cracking it yeah but i do i my suggestion to them is always look i'm not saying don't look at it because i'm not from a bygone era where i'm saying i don't understand social media i i see the power of being able to connect with people and that interaction but i i also recognize that there are moments where we feel more vulnerable maybe we haven't slept so well maybe in our world we have we've just played poorly or will it if we've played poorly we probably know that anyway we don't need the affirmation of that from thousands of messages you know i think in the old days you'd pick the paper up you were given a mark out of 10. i i knew what it was going to be i didn't need to look oh it's a oh it's a five and but by reading it i felt worse the next day and i think why have i done that because i knew i was rubbish yesterday so i didn't need the confirmation i was rubbish to just push me further into the ground and i think in in the world now that's so instant and even within a game we could win a game having been a goal behind if the players went through their timeline from the first 30 minutes of the game they're getting hammered for this and hammered for that and then by the end they're the hero because they've scored the winning goal and it's we've got to try to ride beyond that instantaneous emotion i think to stay a little bit more level i i think that would be better for our mental health and well-being yeah no for sure well you mentioned the good in social media there and there's some obviously some great high profile examples recently of footballers using their profile to do real good across society which has been incredible to see um you mentioned raheem sterling and racism and i i wasn't necessarily going to talk to you about this today but given it's come up in that context i shared with pippa grange when i spoke to her one of the reasons why i have fallen out of love with football so i'm someone who grew up idolizing the game i would go to anfield regularly under rafa benitez i'd follow liverpool all around europe i went to champions league finals um istanbul 2005 2007 i'm in the stadium in athens and we're not doing well the team are one nil down and it's a very different atmosphere to what it was in istanbul and within the home section me with my home shirts on me and my friends who is caucasian um three you know even now it's funny i thought you know it's three lads turned around and were incredibly uh vitriolic in the language they used against me um and it was really hard it was one of those things where i remember that i remember feeling scared i remember that because because frankly the security in the stadium was very relaxed we could just leave and walk into a different part of the arena and sit somewhere else which i think is problematic in itself but my mate said hey listen let's let's just get out of here let's go to another part of the stadium and it's funny because i'm someone who used to literally live for football and i can't say it's just that but i think there's a side to football which has nothing to do with the beautiful game that is football but the surroundings of football where you know i faced that abuse i know that's ultimately football is just a subsection of society it's not you know there are you know people who come to football matches are just representative of everyone in society so i'm not blaming football for that but i think when i became a parent gareth this is the other thing which really affected my love for again not the game because it is a beautiful game but the noise around the game is the fact i just thought you know i'm trying to bring my son up to be a kind compassionate and my daughter person who treats everyone the way they'd like to be treating themselves these are the really values that my wife and i hold there these are the main things i try and teach my children i thought it's funny you walk into a football stadium and behavior seems to be almost permissible that would never be permissible outside of football stadium you know you can't shout the and i don't want to put you in a difficult position cause i appreciate your england manager but i also feel i'm sure you'd like to hear what a former football fanatic has to say it's kind of like i feel well why is it okay in a stadium that thousands of people can shout apparent abuse at the referee but you walk outside that football stadium and you just you're not allowed to do that on the street you know that's kind of verbal abuse to someone but i was never critical of it as a teenager i thought oh you know that's what's done at football games do you know what i mean i kind of feel now i think well football is a gorgeous game but there's a lot around it that i think is putting people who used to love it putting us off and um i i just wonder i wonder if you have any thoughts to share on what i just shared yes it's fascinating observation and it it hurts me when i i hear um people talk about experiences within stadiums like that that take them away from what is a beautiful sport and you know your passion and that you feel you you don't want to take your children that's that's so sad to hear one of the most rewarding things for me coming back from russia in 2018 was that the people who stopped me on the street were from every background ever you know different religions different heritage for you know all english our support our fan base is um just from so many different backgrounds representing modern england and and in some ways we've as again got to catch up to that because you're absolutely right some of the things even as a manager that you experience and the the ways people people speak to you i suppose it's a bit like the social media people say things on social media that you think surely if we were standing together in the pub you wouldn't you just wouldn't say that or you wouldn't dream of personalizing that by copying me in on it so i i just think across society i think the game is a reflection of society and we have in particularly times like this we've got to show more tolerance um we're all a product of our education our upbringing and to have an understanding of difference and an acceptance of difference i think is so important as we move forward in life um and it feels as if we're during the start of lockdown everybody was pulling together and everybody was out recognizing the national health service and we were fighting this together and yet there have been lots of moments over the last couple of years and i have to say you know the vote to leave europe with brexit i felt that there were things that pulled us apart and were where we weren't together on things and not accepting of difference and not not having an understanding and i and i think our children don't don't recognize that world you know they're born into the world with no prejudice they're born into my kids felt as european as they felt english frankly you know why why are we leaving europe you know we travel it's two hours to there and it's two hours to manchester or it's two hours to wherever you know what's the yeah what's the big deal here so i just think that general kindness to each other and tolerance and understanding of difference if we work collectively as a as a country can be so powerful and there are some problems in the world that frankly we've all got to work together to cure and that might be at the moment it's the virus um there's obviously the the ecology of the planet that if we you know we can't have half the countries working towards that and half not so there are so many things that really we should be working powerfully together um and and yeah maybe we're dreamers but it would be lovely to think that that would be possible in the future yeah no i'm an optimist as well and i think you you're dead right football is just it's such a big game it's just a reflection of society it's not you know it is and i think football also has the power because of its prominence to change things we see you know wonderful stories in liverpool that since mohamed salah started playing there it looks as though you know islamic racial attacks have gone down significantly certainly from some of the media reports i read which again it shows oh wow and we do have such a luxury in this country of players from all over the world playing that you know if you're a football fan and you you do have or you were brought up with prejudice but your favorite player happens to come from a different country and they're knocking in goals each week well you know that's a pretty powerful way of starting to chip away at that prejudice and go oh well i kind of love i love him when he's scoring and putting me at the top of the premiership maybe that should be reflected in other aspects of my life you know what i mean so i actually i'm an optimist i get the sense you are and i think football has the power and the potential to really create wonderful change in the world gareth honestly talking to you has been an absolute joy honestly you know i i really enjoyed this interaction i think what you've written about is going to be so helpful for so many people um you know i urge people who have got kids who are really into football i think they would very much like a copy of this book um but actually it goes beyond that i really think this goes far beyond football and will help all of us acquire skills quiet insight into how we can live you know happier healthier more content more fulfilled calmer lives and i really want to you know publicly acknowledge you for doing that the podcast is called feel better live more gareth because when we feel better in ourselves we get more out of life i wonder if you'd feel happy sharing some of your kind of top practical tips for people listening right now who want a few gems for them to take and apply in their own life i wonder what advice does the england manager have for them well goodness me i mean i hope people aren't expecting extreme wisdom at this point but i've found that the most basic things have kept me on track and um at the root of it you mentioned how your mental well-being has an impact on everything else and definitely affects the physical when a team are suffering on the pitch um and they're losing on the pitch their brain is the first part that goes um and people say they're not they're not running they're not trying they're not they're not trying hard enough but actually it's because they're being blocked from here and so i'm always conscious that to keep my brain alert and alive the basics of how i eat how i sleep exercising um giving myself time to to step away from work they're the most simple things i do i live in the countryside so i'm able to go and walk the dogs and and get out and switch off but i know that my physical well-being helps my mental well-being and vice versa and i i do think those basics are very straightforward if i've slept well and i've i'm i feel stronger and i feel healthy and i feel i can take on any challenge if i haven't slept well for a long period of days or my diet hasn't been right or i've not been able to exercise i don't feel quite as robust and i don't feel quite as able to take everything on and i've just found those simple things that i know it doesn't mean i i never drink or i don't go and enjoy myself or i don't pig out on chocolate at certain times but but at the right times and in moderation and then generally to get back on track if i'm struggling i know i need to sleep and recover and give my body the chance because if i've not got the energy then i can't help the people i'm working with or my family and i can't affect the things i want to change gareth i i think that's wonderful wisdom there you covered what i call the four pillars food movement sleep and relaxation and if that's how the england manager needs to apply well-being to get the most out of his job and his family life and and his well-being i think that's pretty good advice for the rest of us gareth thank you so much for your time today it's been an honor for me to speak to you and uh i wish you all the best with the book tour well wrong good thank you for having me it's been fascinating and and really thought provoking so yeah i really appreciate your time press subscribe to get more inspiration and ideas on how to feel better so you can get more out of life and if you have a moment why not check out this conversation that i've picked out as a perfect follow-up remember lifestyle change is always worth it because when you feel better you've lived more

Channel: Dr Rangan Chatterjee

Views: 8,742

Rating: 4.955801 out of 5

Keywords: the4pillarplan, thestresssolution, feelbetterin5, wellness, drchatterjee, feelbetterlivemore, ranganchatterjee, 4pillars, drchatterjee podcast, England football, england manager, gareth southgate, confidence, childhood hunger, racism, marcus rashford, raheem stirling, football skills, anything is possible, football memoir, professional footballer, fifa world cup, psychology, pippa grange, positive mindset, self-limiting beliefs, bravery, the princes trust, life lessons, guide to life

Id: lRQB6v14vOo

Length: 88min 34sec (5314 seconds)

Published: Tue Dec 15 2020