The Thief: The Original Worst D&D Class | D&D Class Analysis

hello and welcome to DM it all a show where we talk about D&D books and tabletop gaming history a while back we made a video about the monk and now it was consistently the worst class in Dungeons & Dragons but the entry requirements for the class meant that most people never really saw it at their gaming table the monk was often omitted from early D&D video games as well further narrowing the avenues to learn about the class and its quirky mechanics firsthand for this episode we'll be talking about an archetype that most D&D players learned was bad through personal experience it's the original worst D&D class the thief's also known as the old school incarnation of the rogue when we call the thief the original worst class we mean that was the first glaringly bad class to be introduced to D&D back when Dungeons & Dragons was first released in 1974 there were only three classes available the fighter magic user and the cleric each of these had their weaknesses but their flaws were meant to be offset by the strengths of the other classes one could argue that this class was worse than that class but each of them served a vital role within the game's framework the fighter was needed to defend the frontline the clerk had one of the few ways characters could heal and magic users eventually gained access to the most powerful abilities when the thief was added what had contributed to this dynamic was less obvious since the game was not built with the class in mind in fact the thief didn't even come from the publishers of the game rather it was one of the earliest contributions from the fast-growing D&D player base at the time the class was introduced not long after Dee Dee's release in a 1974 issue of the Great Plains game players newsletter this was a limited publication fan magazine but it featured many contributions from Gary Gygax the co-creator of D&D before D&D got its own official magazine Gygax used fanzines like this to test out different rules many concepts introduced in the newsletter would officially be implemented in Grayhawk Dean Dee's first supplement Grayhawk was the first official appearance of the thief's class but the original untested version debuted in the great plains games players newsletter Gygax attributed the creation of the thief to a D&D player named Gary Switzer Switzer was the owner of a Santa Monica gaming store named arrow hobbies Switzer's home group came up with the thief's concept but it was gog acts that designed the official version that players would become familiar with nowadays rogue type characters are usually pictured as master spies and assassins but the progenitor thief was more like Bilbo Baggins from The Hobbit there were other literary influences for the class of course like the gray Mouser character created by Fritz Leiber the great Mouser represented the thief as it existed in the higher levels where it was dexterous skillful and dangerous this character also reflected the more Liam big lluis qualities many players associate with the thief class but most thieves didn't get to high levels and they weren't always robbers by trade just like Bilbo many thieves were everyman characters without military training or fancy magics think of it like how Bilbo was called the burglar of his adventuring group despite lacking a criminal background his nimble nature made him better suited for sneaking rather than fighting and he like many thieves relied on his skills and any treasure he acquired in order to get through his adventures Gygax even mentioned in the original fanzine that thieves were not meant for combat that fact became fairly obvious when he looked at their stats since thieves rolled a d4 for their health that was literally the lowest amount of health the character could have at the time making the thief about as fragile as the magic-user thankfully thieves could at least wear leather armor and they should the same attack bonuses as the cleric the midway point between the magic user in the fighter thieves could also use magic swords which was a massive boon since swords were the most common and powerful magic weapons yet even with these benefits the thief was just too fragile to function as a frontline warrior they were often better off staying behind the tinker classes and attacking with ranged weapons the real reason players would want a thief in their party was for the wide array of thief skills that is until players realized that the skills were a crapshoot most of the iconic thief abilities were present from the very beginning even the original thieves could open locks disable small traps pickpockets and sneak around additionally they could listen through doors and climb steep vertical surfaces succeeding at most of these abilities required the player to roll to 10-sided dice to determine the odds out of 100 percent the problem was their level one thief had only a 15 percent chance of opening a common lock it would take the thief until level 7 to increase the chances above 50% note that opening locks was one of the thief's main jobs and they were abysmal at it also note that a failure didn't signify bad luck in that particular moment an unsuccessful role meant that the lock was beyond the thief's capabilities to pick this was true for all the thief abilities the thief usually had a single chance to succeed at a specific task and if they failed there was nothing they could do later additions allowed for second chances but only after the thief leveled up in general the only reliable ability for most thieves was their climbed skill the thief's climbing ability was actually comically superior to their other functions at level 1 thieves start with an 87% chance to climb almost any surface therefore old-school thieves spent more time climbing up walls than they did disabling traps it's no wonder that the class got the nickname of skill monkey the thief's supernatural climbing ability sparked debates about whether thief's skills represented mundane tasks or epic feats it seemed weird to provide the class with a wall running superpower when the majority of their other skills were dull in comparison so some people argued that all thief abilities represented the odds for accomplishing epic feats for example submit the claim that anyone could open a normal lock but only a thief could open a magic lock this made the hidin shadow skill reflect the chance to become invisible in darkness the listen skill representing supernatural hearing and so on however there's nothing in the text to support these epic interpretations and Gary Gygax clarified that most thief skills were indeed intended for mundane accomplishments the epic feats argument is largely just wishful thinking from people who refuse to believe that the thief was this bad at their job but the class eventually became competent if it managed to survive the low levels that made it somewhat similar to the progression of the fragile magic user accept that high level magic users could rewrite reality whereas high level thieves could finally pick locks at a reliable rate funnily the magic user could replace the role the thief threw spells like knock and invisibility and in most cases these alternatives were better than the thief's abilities since they were guaranteed to work the thief was able to perform these functions an unlimited number of times but the party rarely needed the abilities more than once or twice a day especially because the game wasn't built around these duties needing a specific class to perform them could cheat the rules through their spells but originally everyone could try their hand at each of the thieves civilities this was because old-school D&D was more about roleplay over stats when it came to handling interactions outside of combat instead of rolling for skills players would often talk things out with the dungeon master if the player could think of a plausible solution it was assumed their character would be able to perform it players did roll dice at certain points but Gygax suggested that DM determined the odds based on the situation so players can manipulate their chances through some clever thinking like snuffing out a nearby candle to hide in the shadows better the thief however defines specific numbers to hit and they couldn't be adjusted through roleplay to make things worse the odds of accomplishing these tasks were crushingly low if a level one thief had a 10% chance of removing a trap what were the chances for the classes that weren't trained for that particular skill so it could be argued that the original thief took more away from the game than it added but on the other hand there are a lot of benefits to solidified skill systems in RPGs skills enforced more structured gameplay and they allow characters to be smarter nimbler and more charismatic than each other but adding a single skill oriented class let alone a Padawan was not the best way to introduce the concept of skills into D&D with that said the thief's most egregious sin was how poorly codified self mechanics in early D&D stealth is an important aspect in most RPGs nowadays but was generally useless for most of the Indies history and a lot of this has to do with the thief's skills first of all stealth was based on two separate skills back then one for moving silently and the other for hiding in shadows players would often have to roll both skills in order to pass a stealth check because it didn't matter how quiet you were if an enemy could spot you out in the open there were exceptions to this rule in certain circumstances of course like only needing to move silently if the guard is sleeping or hide in shadows of a patrol is passing by but most scouting missions required both checks making stealth the downright foolish endeavor into the higher levels original D&D always played differently depending on the Dungeon Master so not everyone interpreted the stealth rules this way but the decision to have self involved two different skills is one that haunted the thief class for years to come for those bold enough to send their thief on a scouting mission we should note that they didn't have any great xscape options either making it easy for the class to get swarmed the thief's wall climbing ability was the only real escape tool unique to the class and it wasn't much help in corridor infested dungeons not to mention that separating from the rest of the party in general was usually a death sentence back then even beefy fighters couldn't last long on their own and the thief had significantly worse health and armor the best way for thieves to improve their stealth outside of hitting max level was through magic thieves could be the recipient of an invisibility spell or they could make great use of a magic item like the boots of elven kind but any of the other party members could also get these same bonuses as well the thief's poor stealth capabilities also hampered one of their iconic skills the backstab thieves that were able to attack an enemy from behind received +4 to hit as well as double damage this increased a triple and quadruple damage at higher levels again original D&D was vague enough that thieves could perform a backstab just by being behind the opponent in standard combat advanced and basic D&D will later clarify the thieves could not backstab opponents that were aware of their presence this meant that back-sass were performed via the terrible stealth mechanics rather than positioning but not everything about the thief was atrocious as the thief's skills could be very useful at higher levels where the percentages were more reliable and while the thief could easily be replaced by the magic user the classwork to offset some of the magic users responsibilities spells were a limited resource and the magic user had a wealth of options to choose from with a thief on the team casters could avoid the spells that the thief could replicate at will one notable example was a thief's ability to read languages as they could understand 80 percent of all possible languages by level three this allowed the magic user to skip out on preparing the level one read language spell and instead ready magic missle charm person or sleep at later levels the thief also got the ability to read magic Scrolls granting the classes own way of casting magic user spells this element was luckily a reference to characters like koto the clever another fictional protagonist that inspired the thief class cudgel was a roguish character from Jack Vance's dying earth series the same books then sparred Dean DS magic system cudgel was able to learn some magic after raiding a wizard's library but he could only understand a handful of the simpler spells this is probably why the thief's class had difficulty casting spells higher than level 7 complex spells had a 10% chance of backfiring for the thief which would create the opposite effect this still let the thief with a reliable access to powerful lower-level spells like haste being able to read magic scrolls was arguably one of the biggest benefits of the class due to the potency of spell casting an old-school D&D having a class dedicated to using Scrolls again freed up more the magic users repertoire for even greater spells by now you may have noticed that every advantage that thief had was more or less about making the magic users stronger the truth is that the thief was basically a support role it supplemented the combat abilities of the fighter and the utility of the magic user without outshining either of them and the problem with this is that the clerk did is essentially the same thing and was a million times more vital to the party since thieves couldn't resurrect players or turn Undead so the thief was always the fourth best option but it still saw a lot of play regardless it helped that the class had the fastest leveling progression as it meant they could speed past their useless early levels for better or worse thieves were also the most accessible class in original D&D classes used to have racial restrictions back then and humans were the only ones able to take every class to max level dwarves could only play as fighters while elves could play as a fighter and magic user combo halflings were similar to dwarves except that they could only reach a maximum of level 4 when playing as their only class the fighter halflings weren't even worth using until theif was introduced which is partially why thieves wound up is the preferred class for halflings after all it only makes sense to make the Hobbit a burglar class restrictions were intended to balance the racial abilities of each fantasy race but most people felt the restrictions were too punishing the thief seemed purposely built to address this concern as nonhumans even got bonuses to their thief skills making it the only time an original DD that you wouldn't want to pick a human as your race the universal accessibility to the class ensured its presence in most D&D games even as better classes were introduced over time along with the thief the gray Hawk supplement added the Paladin class which was superior to the fighter D&D later added more classes in the Blackmore supplement released the same year as gray Hawk and featured the assassin and monk classes Blackmore referred to the assassin is a thief's subclass since it fulfilled the same role and the monk was labeled as a cleric subclass but it was really a thief subclass in all but name these classes could generally do what the thief did on top of their other abilities assassins had the ability to instantly murder her character and better resembled the modern image of the rogue class but these classes could only be played by humans and required the player to roll high for their stats during character creation paladin's monks and assassins were more like hero classes for players who got super lucky at the start they also had role play requirements in setting restrictions these classes were designed to be more rare as having them on the team was meant to be a momentous occasion players who rolled characters with average or worse stats could always reliably pick fighter magic user cleric or thief so these four became the core D&D identities that were the backbone of the game the players handbook for Dungeons and Dragons was released in 1978 four years after D&D a D&D as a whole was made with the intention of codifying and rebalancing the loose rules from original D&D for more structured tournament play believe it or not this led to a lot of thief nerfs as the Gygax felt players were abusing the rules and straying too far from his much more down-to-earth image of the class wall climbing for example was now mostly reserved for coarse surfaces with ledges and cracks this put an end to all the wall running and robbed the thief of it's only supernatural ability self mechanics were also made to be more realistic as well as if the problem was that it was too easy hiding in shadows now required the thief to remain perfectly still ensuring that it couldn't be used in conjunction with move silently so instead of being required to roll twice to succeed at general stealth the thief had to make a new stealth roll whenever they want to move or vanish from sight which made exploring hideouts of painful experience a D&D thieves also got worse at reading as they went from a 10 to 25 percent chance of failure when attempting to cast not just powerful magic scrolls but any magic scrolls this made them much less reliable as backup magic users the class also learned how to read 80% of all languages at max level instead of level 3 now they slowly worked their way up to 80% over time achieving at max level a spell that magic users got at level 1 the thief's trap removal ability added a new rule that the thief first had to roll a separate skills check in order to even find the trap in the first place not only did this further limit that non combat abilities of the other classes it also meant that the trap removal was yet another test that required multiple rolls to succeed in the only good news about this is that failing to disarm a trap doesn't mean the trap is automatically activated otherwise the thief's enrole would have been an obvious sacrificial lamb a positive change was that the thief was granted d sixes for determining hit points this finally gave thieves more help than magic users and the class generally got beefier going forward there are also many new lore features to build up the identity of the thief and it's placed within the D&D world one example was a new ability called the thieves can't which was a secret language known only by members of the thief class this premise was based on an actual historical code that was developed around the 1500s during the Elizabethan period the language was used to talk and write about misdeeds while keeping the law unaware kingdom management was also a major feature of a D&D as fighters could eventually set up their own Kingdom thieves on the other hand could build the headquarters for a Thieves Guild in a nearby town after building the structure the thief would attract up to 24 followers then they could start a gang war with the existing Beebe's guild within the region the war would not end until the player-character left the area or one side was completely wiped out we should also briefly mention unearthed Arcana a book Gygax wrote to expand the AD&D rules one notable addition was the thief Acrobat an option for thieves at level 5 that allowed them to stop leveling their thief's skills and instead focus on acrobatics the thief's Acrobat and most of the other unearthed Arcana additions were intended to be part of second edition a D&D but they were left out due to Gary Gygax leaving Dee Dee's publisher though the thief's Acrobat never became a core class many of its abilities would be associated with the thief in later editions including balancing high jumps and tumbling when second edition a D&D was released in 1989 it may have ignored the thief Acrobat concept but it did end up improving on the a D&D thief the biggest addition was skill customization at first glance this class appears to once again have pathetically low chances of accomplishing its skills but the second addition beef starts out with a large pool of skill points to allocate on top of the default values each point invested improves his skill by a single percentage thieves also got more points as they leveled letting them decide how their skills developed instead of following a set skill table second addition thieves still got the same number of total skill points as previous incarnations so this version of the class still wasn't that great a player could get to a 50% lock-picking chance by level 3 instead of level 7 but it required pumping most of their points into that one skill so rather than being terrible at every skill but wall climbing the thief finally had the chance to do maybe one or two things a bit better speaking of wall-climbing the second edition thief featured the return of supernatural wall running the tech seer flat-out says that anyone can climb a wall but only a thief can climb smooth surfaces without any climbing gear second edition clarified that the thief's ability to detect noise was also above the average person's capabilities as well this helped to set up the superhuman perception skills of the modern rogue well the second edition changes in general help create a more epic interpretation of the class the superhuman concept wasn't consistent in all the thief skills for instance this version of the thief could still only pick non-magical locks and disable normal traps one practical buff to the class was given through the hide in shadows skill it now counted for any form of concealment whereas in first edition a D&D it only applied specifically to hiding in shadows this change granted the skill more use in forests and other areas and further established the thief as a master sneak regardless of their environment no longer did thieves have to form a guild at higher levels either they couldn't said build a location to house their heirlooms and attract like-minded adventurers to be their followers we should also mention the second edition quote-unquote kits as they featured the return of the thief Acrobat concept kits for alternate forms of progression for specific classes and they functioned similar to the archetypes of 5th edition on top of being able to focus more on acrobatics these kits also allow thieves to become Buccaneers beggars investigators and spies among other things 2nd edition tried to redefine D&D as a more heroic game overall and it featured the first attempts to push the thief away from its more base criminal connotations these lore variations set the stage for the upcoming 3rd edition before we transition to that though we should discuss the basic D&D version of the thief's basic D&D you was the simpler alternative to a D&D catered towards newer players basic D&D was essentially continuation of the original game with simpler rules the most obvious example of this philosophy was that races now functioned as classes this change made it so that only humans could be thieves now as a dwarf counted as a dwarf class but thieves still saw a lot of play regardless this was due to the fact that basic primarily focused on the four core classes with the fantasy races being variations on the fighter and magic-user basic D&D being a divergent evolution of original T&D mostly ignored advanced Indies progression and changes one notable example being the thief's health pool as basic kept the thief added some measly D for hit points basic and it's additional supplements further clarified the murky stealth rules from original D&D and retained the rolling toys for a single stealth check rule basic inevitably cribbed a few ideas from a D&D over time however the most notable example was the thief's ability to become guild master at higher levels the basic thief had more options in this regard though as they could choose the leader bribe any existing guilds in the region instead of starting an unavoidable gang war they can also avoid guild leadership entirely and become a traveling thief known as a rogue speaking of which you the term rogue' was used to describe the thief's role in second edition with warrior wizard and priest as the other three roles but this was essentially a more vague label to categorize the other skill based classes like The Bard the second addition hero class alternative to the thief but third edition was the first time the thief class itself had fully transformed into the rogue this wasn't just a name change either as third edition emphasize that rogues could be many things aside from thieving criminals while previous editions have provided alternative careers for the thief they were no longer exceptions to the rule third edition was based on a D&D in principle but it sought to capture the same spirit with the rules overall the most notable change in regards to the rogue was the addition of the skills system the third addition skill system had players budget a set amount of skill points towards abilities they could use outside of combat they got more of these points as they leveled well it might look like a natural continuation of the second addition thief and its points distribution system third addition skills were largely a different beast abandoning 100% totals and being available to every class in the game Universal skill systems had already been introduced to D&D multiple times by this point but most previous attempts were optional and avoided incorporating the thief's class features the thief therefore acted as a limiting factor for the other skills since Steve D designers were wary of drastically overhauling classes back then third editions Fresh Start presented an opportunity to fix many antiquated designs including the awkward thief percentage tables now skills like most things in 3rd edition were changed to function more like attack roles everything was based around the d20 dice which is why 3rd edition was also referred to as the d20 system third edition gave other classes access to most of the traditional thief abilities but the rogue got the most skill points to distribute as well as the longest list of class specific skills whenever a player upgraded a class skill not associated with their particular class the bonus was essentially halved with an abundance of class skills available to them rogues rarely had to worry about this penalty allowing them to grow significantly faster than most other classes the new skilless not only included most of the old school thief skills but also added fresh new abilities the skilless generally tried to be comprehensive and cover any non-combat scenarios that players might encounter the list was a bit too comprehensive though as there were originally 45 skills to keep track up as you leveled this created a lot of weaknesses for characters especially at higher levels were the gap between a skilled and unskilled character was broadened significantly the rogue had the easiest time with this skill system though thanks to the truckload of points they were given rogues didn't even have to take most of the classic thief abilities if they didn't want to this was the first edition that allowed rogues to be more of a diplomatic class thanks to the variety of social skills as for the classic thief abilities most of them were improved from their previous incarnations at long last magical traps could be disabled which actually became the defining feature of the rogue class specifically instead of using Scrolls rogues can now use any magical device through a successful skill check this greatly expanded the rogues options at higher levels for example the most effective way to heal in third edition was through a wand of cure wounds so rogue can nab one and become the party healer over time this edition also added the ability for all classes to take 10 for a skill check meaning characters could use the average result for their dice roll when not in a perilous situation this was an important clarification as it gave a baseline competency for skilled characters instead of requiring rogues who cross their fingers every time the use of routine ability like we mentioned before third edition was the first to add class features to the rogue outside of skills the most iconic ability included was evasion which allowed the rogue to take half damage on a failed reflex saving throw this was an ability originally exclusive to the monk class but third edition more closely associated it with the rogue other abilities like uncanny dodge will later be changed in future editions but the concept behind them would endure to this day namely the concept of the rogue being an inhuman whirlwind of agility the most important new class feature was the sneak the replacement for the old-school backstab sneak attacks function closer to original D&D and if they rely on positioning instead of self to pull off a sneak attack the rogue merely needs to be flanking an opponent this meant there had to be an ally fighting an enemy from the opposite side this was easily accomplished so long as there was a room to maneuver and fulfilling this prerequisite allowed for sneak attacks every single combat round sneak attacks dealt an additional d6 of damage eventually scaling up to 10 d6 damage by max level this was almost like getting 10 extra attacks on top of the Rogues regular damage the extra damage applied to every attack in the round - which was why many rogue builds focused on fighting with two weapons with blades brandished in both hands ROK's could often double their damage output third addition brought along with it a new feat system that allowed rogues to further improve their combat prowess these were similar to fit addition feats as they provided bonus character abilities to increase customization aside from the two weapon fighting feat most rogues picked up another feed called weapon finesse this allowed a character to use dexterity instead of strength when attacking with light weapons this touches on yet another reason most of the earlier thieves sucked since they needed high strength to be decent at melee fighting as you could imagine most old-school thieves simply stuck with ranged weapons weapon finesse however let the rogue drop strength and entirely focus on dexterity their primary stat this feat was so valuable that would become a default ability for future rogues ranged rogues were still a great option in third edition since sneak attacks unlike backstabs could be performed with any type of weapon the major downside to this is that range attacks didn't count towards flanking syringe rogues had a harder time sneak attacking opponents after the first round unfortunately rogues couldn't always rely on their sneak attack damage as it was impossible to sneak attack undead enemies constructs and other creatures that lacked obvious vital signs these rules were not as restrictive as the second addition backstab which mostly limited spine shanking for humanoid enemies of equal height but back stabs were a minor bonus for the second addition thief while sneak attacks made up the majority of the rogue's damage output these restrictions were removed in later editions but the third edition rogues effectiveness largely depended on the campaign being played note that this was true for many classes in third edition rogues sucked in undead campaigns for example but these adventures were repelled ins got their chance to shine the exception to this rule being that spell casting classes like The Wizard were good in almost every scenario thanks to the versatility of their spells generally the best classes in 3rd edition were the ones that got the most spells this rendered the rogue no word near the best class in 3rd edition but it remained a vast improvement over the thief and the third edition revisions kept the class relevant going forward despite third edition adding new classes with every other book eventually totalling to over 80 base classes the robe remained the master of the skill system and a consistent damage dealer establishing the class is a core part of D&D as a side note video games that took influence from D&D already started pushing the class in this direction but D&D wasn't too far behind this trend it could also be argued that the modern rogue concept actually began with the assassin subclass from original D&D fourth edition was a radical departure for the series in many ways with a deeply different rule set despite the changes the rogue largely performed the same role here as in 3rd edition and while many elements from 4th edition proved to be temporary there were some lasting changes to the Rogues evolution for example this version of the rogue toned down the insane damage of the third edition class as it could only sneak attack once per round while technically a nerf removing the possibility for insane damage combos opened up a design space for abilities based on more skills in utility the fourth edition skill system may have been the most important change for the rogue since it served as a bridge between 3rd editions massive skill list and the much simpler system from 5th edition the number of skills were dramatically reduced in 4th edition and they scaled automatically over time instead of budgeting points characters just added half their level to their skill roles and trading in a skill would grant an extra bonus the biggest improvement for the row was that stealth had finally been condensed down and do a single ability this mid fourth edition the first D&D system to only require one role for the task in all instances and the first edition where stealth was a great option on its own that finally brings us to the fifth edition like most things in the modern system the rogue resembles the third edition the most but operates with a much looser rule set the class still takes elements from other editions but the most amusing example being the return of the thieves can't of all things the rogue archetypes also show off the different flavors of the class that have existed over the years from the wall climbing thief to the lethal assassin newer archetypes like the swashbuckler and scout can be traced back to the customizable kits from second edition a D&D and of course the rogue remains the master of the skill system it starts with the most skills can double the bonus on preferred skills I can eventually make a minimum of 10 on every skills check skills improve automatically over time with the major difference from fourth edition being that scaling is based on a character's attack bonus untrained skills never get this bonus but numbers in 5th edition also scale a lot less than previous editions so performing untrained tasks isn't nearly as impossible as it used to be in the past skill usage is also largely up to DM discretion in fifth edition which is great for rogues since DMS have been historically more forgiving on the class than the Indies publishers the one exceptions that the self skill retains the most amount of rules probably because it is the easiest skill to abuse note that even in 5th edition stealth is not invisibility you still need some form of concealment and you generally can't enter stealth in the middle of combat ironically these restrictions are trivial compared to most of the older stealth rules modern rogues also now have the ability to move or hide as a bonus action this means that rogues are not only better at stealth but they have more viable escape options when a self-check should fail the rogues sneak attack was not only better when made from stealth but also receives several beneficial changes of its own flanking is easier to pull off as the rogue only needs an ally within 5 feet of their enemy and sneak attacks could also be accomplished whenever a character has advantage over an opponent the concept of advantage existed fourth edition but it was more of a mechanical effect in fifth edition advantage can be based on the narrative if you have the upper hand in some way and your opponent doesn't you get advantage advantage itself allows any character to roll twice and take the superior of the two results so adding a sneak attack to the offensive makes the rogue especially deadly like most fifth edition classes the modern rogue is a logical refinement of the earlier versions that incorporates most of the iconic elements but the real turning point for the class was the thief - rogue rebranding in third edition it was more than a name change it was a signal that the class was in need of a dire redesign when we discussed the monk we detailed a list of class features that remain largely unchanged for most of D&D history the thief's story on the other hand is largely about the abandonment of the thief as it was originally conceived it might be because the thief was more commonly played and everyone had one story or another where the class's lackluster abilities became obvious and dragged down player enjoyment or it might be that very few people Majan the class as it really was everyone had their own thief's homebrew rules and these really matched up with the inconspicuous class that Gygax envisioned the thief was basically just a random guy for the majority of its lifespan and the reward for hitting higher levels was achieving basic competency but people didn't want to imagine a common thug fumbling lockpick after lockpick attempt they wanted to play his legendary scouts infiltrators acrobats and assassins that could strike a target and then vanish like the morning mist basically the fantasy version of a ninja so when the thief's class finally transformed into the rogue it had become what players imagined the class to be all along [Music] thank you for watching DM it all what are your thoughts on the thief / rogue did you appreciate the humble beginnings of the class are you glad the robe moved beyond them which variation of the class is your favorite and ordered the DD classes you would like us to cover next comment down below and subscribe while you're at it ring the bell to see notified on all our newest content and you can subscribe to our patreon to further support the show if you're feeling generous thanks again and we'll see you all next session [Music] [Music]

Channel: DM It All

Views: 165,621

Keywords: Dungeons & Dragons, Class, Critical Role, Dice Camera Action, Adventure Zone, Video Essay, ProJared, Spoony, Thief, Rogue, Gary Switzer, Aero Hobbies, Gary Gygax, Monk, Hobbit, Bilbo Baggins, Lord of the Rings, JRR Tolkein, Cugel the Clever, Jack Vance, Dying Earth, Eyes of the Overworld, Grey Mouser, Fritz Leiber, Assassin, Bard

Id: JeUjF0fsJ9c

Length: 38min 1sec (2281 seconds)

Published: Mon May 04 2020