The State of Racial Tension in America

as you can see we're gonna be talking about the current state of racial tension in America today we're gonna see if we can't continue this conference's theme of directly addressing some of the hardest issues I'm joined by just some incredible people who have many insightful things to discuss and to share with you in the next 30 minutes to my immediate right here you have dr. Kristina Edmondson she is the dean for intercultural student development at Calvin College to her right we have Justin Gibbons he is the co-founder and president of the and campaign his right we have Juan Sanchez he is the senior pastor of High Point Baptist Church in Austin Texas and a council member with the gospel coalition then finally we have Benjamin Watson an NFL player for the Baltimore Ravens author of under our skin and some other titles welcome Benjamin my name is Colin Hansen I serve as the editorial director for the Gospel Coalition we're so glad that you're here grateful for how you're interacting great for all all the people who are watching as well Justin we're gonna start off with you on this question so it seems like a lot of white Americans at least think of race relations as much better today at least certainly compared to 50 years ago maybe even in some extent no longer even a problem that we should be talking about at all if we wouldn't at least keep bringing it up a lot of us face that question of it's not a problem except for you you keep bringing it up you know slavery it's been abolished 150 years racial segregation for more than 50 years so how do you account for ongoing racial tension in America today well the first thing I think we have to do is put that in the proper perspective any way you look at it black people have been enslaved in this country longer than we've been free so that's one thing we do have to understand and so you can say and then the thing you have to understand the nature of slavery the nature of slavery wasn't just about physical bondage it was really about a psychological warfare and that psychological warfare does not go away in the generation or two so we can say wind it's like when you talk about when slavery ended but let's also talk about when redlining ended let's talk about when housing discrimination ended let's talk about when when educational disparities ended or when they will end these you know that kind of comment shows just a lack of understanding about systemic racism and that if you have these laws on the books just because bias is taken out of the law doesn't mean everything is automatically fixed everything doesn't go back you still have certain mentalities you still have certain leaders and things that happen under the table that we don't see that still make this a very real issue so at the end of the day the problem is not that we're not talking that we're talking about it the problem is that we're not really addressing it dr. Edmund sitting in your work how do you respond to that question it's not a problem today or at least it's so much better and if you would just stop talking and stop going back to 50 years ago or hosting conferences like this then maybe we would actually make some progress I would question if that's the attitude that we have towards all sin I just don't see any biblical precedent that time Nielsen and that not repenting of it is not the solution that Christ himself has given us and so I would I would ask that person why is this such a Golden Calf to you that you will not apply the methodology of price to it then we could talk more about it well let's talk more about it what are some moments that stand out to you as pivotal in pushing America forward and backward in the last 50 years in particular but then also bring us into the last five years on both of those horizons okay I will do my best so I'm not a historian by trade so my friends were true historians it's bear with me you know I think that there are cultural moments that serve as snapshots that serve as reminders they're almost like you think about the narrative of Jonah and God came to Jonah again we have many moments personally and socially where God comes to us again through particular events so we can look at an incident that just happened in Memphis God has come to us again because God is a God who is gracious and so when these things happen they're an opportunity to repent but I ultimately think that is the moments that we don't pay a lot of attention to that sometimes push us the furthest back and I can't think of the 1987 Supreme Court ruling that racial bias is inevitable and the sentencing of African Americans to the death penalty and when I think about people who state to have such a deep pro-life conviction but to let that slide and to say that any other response would be too severe of a justice well the people who have been impacted by a severe grace we pursue a severe justice for our neighbor so so that would be a historical event that comes to mind not being a historian but a more recent event if you talk about the last five years I don't think we can have this conversation without talking about the last presidential election and there are significant consequences and for those of us who weep as a result of it we didn't weep because we're big fans at the Democrats we wept because we knew the witness of the church not just the national but the global witness of the church was at stake and so there were consequences to that Benjamin let me ask you we've seen african-american athletes in particular become more outspoken including on racial issues in the last number a number of years how can you see public figures wield their influence for justice and even for for unity in the church definitely well this is nothing new in the area of sports I mean obviously throughout the history of sport there have been athletes that I stood up during their time there's specific time for a certain causes of justice and so recently obviously with the election with the awareness of the criminal justice system the injustice is when it comes to sentencing for the same crimes when it comes to police brutality or at least harsh treatment by police you've seen athletes stand up in the encouraging thing is not only black athletes have stood up there have been white athletes that have come alongside of them understand but the reason why this happens I think though is because in these locker rooms in our locker rooms we have a common respect for each other's humanity we know each other's experiences we understand that that guy is a human being that I can come together with for a common cause I know his family I trust him I care about him and when you get outside of the locker room a lot of times you don't have that you don't have people that aren't like you that you really know and care about so it's hard for you to come and stand beside them even though you say you stand for justice because it doesn't affect you directly and so as athletes I applaud the guys in whatever form they decide to protest but the next step obviously I think is advocacy and education so what we've seen a lot in our locker rooms is we put together different listen and learn tours we've put together bail hearings we have guys that are going to Capitol Hill guys that are learning and advocating for certain legislation to correct many of these injustice is that you know we're learning about them as we go along we don't want to simply be guys who stand up and make noise but our feet don't move towards making action and so I'm encouraged because of what I've seen from the guys are not a mile long is there a difference between the different sports it certainly seems like the NBA is a lot more woke than yeah I will say that you know I wish I was a baller I do I was oh I wasn't tall enough but I will say that in the NBA at least there's more visibility you've got less guys on the team the NBA has seemed to really their culture leans more towards allowing gas to express themselves in that way and advocate and be open with it there are number different factors for that football it's kind of lag behind when it comes to that for different reasons but but but there are plenty of strong pillars in football that are doing just that with NBA's doing and it looks differently you know the one thing we understand about protests and about advocating is that it doesn't have to all look the same we all can do it in our own way for some of us it is speaking it is coming to conferences like this and talking about it for others it is using their abilities to write and to enter to write books or others it may be teaching for others it may be becoming part of the political system there are different ways we are one body but many parts and we all use our talents for that one let's look let's talk to the let's talk about the church here probably most discouraging for me is that historically and today the church has not always worked toward racial justice and unity and sometimes the church has even lagged way behind the government and even sports how do we convey to churches that we cannot fulfill the Great Commission as effectively if we do not make progress on this front yeah first of all I would say it's not that the church is like behind I would say in some churches in some cases the church is fought against yeah absolution unity my first experience of overt racism was in a church as a young music student I brought a friend of mine to play the piano and sing at the church and and I was clueless and the pastor took me inside after the service put his arm around me and he said one I appreciate what you're trying to do but but please don't do that again and I thought what did I do and I didn't realize this was an all-white church and my friend was black and that's what he was and so I experienced that again and again and again you know in another church that was in floor in rural Florida in central Georgia I experienced you know someone gave me a blank check to do something for the youth in the community we put up basketball goals in all sudden we had you know dozens and dozens of kids back there and one of the Deacons came up to me and he said one have you thought about that some of these black kids are gonna start coming to church and I thought it's not the point and and so that that was those were my experiences in the church and you what we have to realize is unbelieving people are lost but they're not stupid you know just like dr. Evans has said the unbelieving world looks at the church and if the Church tolerates adultery they're gonna see that the church tolerates you know if the churches hypocritical they're gonna see that if the pastor is is asking the church to buy him a helicopter so he can go from place to place they're gonna look at the world and they're gonna the world is gonna look at the church say what's wrong with that and it's the same with racism and so these things first of all must be on our hearts as pastors that there has to be a convictional Kuragin and what did it for me was coming to the understanding of Ephesians you know Paul is clear God's eternal plan is to exalt Jesus Christ as king and Lord over all things and to bring all things to unite all things in him and one of the things that God is uniting in price is a fractured and divided humanity so that when Paul says it was his stewardship to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of this Jewish Messiah that by faith in Christ the non-jews take part of the inheritance of the Jewish Messiah and that is he's preaching that he's bringing to light the eternal plan of God to exalt Jesus Christ as Lord and King and that it is through the church that God displays his manifold wisdom that if we're not doing that we're participating contrary to the eternal plan of God to unite crisis King and Lord who is uniting a fractured humanity and so first of all it must be on our hearts it must be a convictional thing it must be a convictional courageous thing and then we must then not just think about it to be convicted but then we must intentionally teach that practice that and implement that next one just let's continue on that theme with the church and talk about we know that we're in an incredibly polarized political environment certainly a lot of that is manifest in the church as well so I'm wondering how can the church be a force for good in the midst of this escalating tension and not merely another mobilizing agent on both wings to foster more fear and loathing you know how are we working toward faith and love in the church instead of just continuing what we see on talk radio and cable news that's a good question I think it's two things so the first thing is I truly believe that the elephant this is the elephant in the room I think this is important I don't believe that why evangelicals leaders civic leaders and also politicians have ever truly divested themselves from the Southern Strategy meaning I think they still believe they need the races support funding votes to win right and so as long as they feel they need that to win it's gonna be hard to come together because they're still receiving the benefits of the people they kind of say we don't want to be around but we're still receiving their benefit and so if if you truly want to see change you have to unequivocally reject that Southern Strategy you can no longer caucus with racist and like act like it's okay because if you don't cut that off and as long as you continue to accept those benefits then you're complicit the other thing I would say is that we have to get rid of this I call the pious bystander stance when it comes to advocacy where we say on certain issues just be pious and let things work themselves out I think there's two problems with that number one is it's not necessarily good theology right number two is people only say that about the things that they don't that don't directly affect them it's easy to tell the person across the tracks just be pious let the things work them out people only say that was issues that they don't prioritize but for instance on the right and I think the right to do this they don't say that about abortion right nor should they but they don't say that and just to make it personal if your childhood had fallen out a tree and their leg is broken on the ground you're not gonna look them in the eye and say just be pious and let things work themselves out that'd be a ridiculous response in fact you might go to jail for that type of neglect and until we see treating our neighbors and our brothers and sisters who look differently than us at the same way we see our child when they're on the ground with a broken leg there's not gonna be a whole lot of reconciliation until we get there and I think those are two of the important points that we need to work on Justin let me let me follow up it may be possible a lot of people here don't know what the Southern Strategy is I mean I think you explained it some of how that works out with needing certain kinds of racist either implicit or explicit votes on the Republican side but can you take us into some of that history there may be people here who don't know why so many such high percentages of african-americans vote Democratic so yeah guys like Lee Atwater and others who basically said at one point the Republican Party was gonna allow in these folks who used to be kind of the Dixiecrats folks who are kind of outcasts and in other parts they said you know what it actually benefits us to let these guys in and so the what has happened is while people don't necessarily use the n-word publicly there's still a benefit to that and so as long as you're dependent on those votes in that power and until the day that you say I don't want your votes I don't want your money or anything like that there's always gonna be a leash on what you can do you might say something you might step out there then they're gonna pull you back because with one hand you're saying I want to reach out I want to do something different I'm a compassionate conservative with the other hand you're being pulled by this this person that's giving you money and telling you to do certain things you'll never take the steps that will need to be taken towards racial reconciliation until you completely cut that off and it has to be a clean cut that is not that that's very clear so perhaps Charlotte's film would be an example could you explain how that played out in terms of if you're looking at this from the lens of that Southern Strategy explain the significance of what happened in Charlottesville so the significance of what happened so you look at Charlottesville and you have some people who kind of spoke out you had the president who said there are a lot of bad people there or there were people who said generally this was bad we don't like it but how many people said this is completely unacceptable and some people did isn't completely unacceptable we're not going to deal with it and I'm calling this out I don't want any benefit from this partnership until we have that and I think Charlottesville got us a ways towards there but until we have that you're not going to see the racial reconciliation because there's still that attachment to something that doesn't fit within the gospel Benjamin let's let's talk about continuing on these themes here you have fought against abortion as well as racism you recognize structural inequities and you also advocate for stronger families and for better fathers in particular how do you hold together what so many others separate across political and racial lines well I just heard it said by a friend of mine I told him I was going to steal this he said that as a believer he's not dedicated to be an elephant or a donkey because his Lord is a lamb and so for me for me the issues that are important to God the issues that I see in the scripture those are the things I want to stand for it doesn't matter what the red and the blue say it matters what Jesus says it matters what scripture says one of my favorite verses in Jeremiah says Jeremiah chapter 9 and talks about this is Jeremiah speaking and he says let not the wise man boast of his wisdom let not the rich man boast of his riches or the strong man boast of his strength though he's talking about humility there vini says but let him who boasts boast in this that he understands and knows me that i am the lord who exercises loving-kindness justice and righteousness on the earth for I delight in these things kindness justice and righteousness is what God delights in so those are the things that I want to be a part of those are the things I want to leave my family as their father into and I want my kids my five kids to understand this is what's important so whether it's the life of a young child that is in the womb or whether it's a life of a young boy or girl that has no opportunity because of where they were born in the situation they were born in whether it's the life of someone who has been charged with a crime that they did not commit and they were sitting there under bail reform they don't have the money to pay bail so they have to sit there in jail on they end up committing suicide like our young brother in New York advocate for him I want to stand for all of these things whether it's a person who's sex trafficked as believers we can't be so tied so you talked about the votes to really moving from one side of the aisle to the other and not being look we're gonna stand for the things that are right so so it's an easy decision for me it may come across as some people are whole how can you do both and I say you know what God is the god of both and and if something is right it's right it doesn't matter what the vote says one perhaps you could address that from the perspective of the local church as well it strikes me that one thing that stands out some people will complain don't get into politics but that seems to only apply to the political things that they disagree with they're how do you think about that as a pastor to help an almost I almost get a sense as well that we don't have a problem of too little too much politics we have too little we're not disciple the world is doing the discipleship through cable news and through talk radio discipleship and we can't compete with it with 30-minute sermons and hour-long Sunday School classes compared to four hours six hours eight hours a day of this stuff so help us to understand a vision for how we can do this especially as church leaders to disciple in righteousness and justice yeah first of all let me let me put a plug for Jonathan Lehman's new book is just a merit one you know while the imagination how the nation's rage which is is kind of written to the white evangelical to kind of help them understand all the political influences that are really subconscious you know they're kind of pre understandings in their psyche so but first of all again we have to we have to paint a picture of who we are and the Bible is clear we are stranger and aliens on this earth we are display people we are called to to display the kingdom of God on this earth that's what it means to image God is image bearers you know we talked about dignity dignity is an implication that we are God's image bearers but it's image bearers we're royal sons and daughters all of us are kings and queens called to represent God's government on this earth and as we represent God's government and we we're telling the world how we live as a church who our God is what he is like what it is like to live under his rule and how God's people live together in love as a church and so that has to be our primary focus you know the the discipleship that dr. Perkins talked about with one another living life together for us it's a it's a personal commitment we have a multi-ethnic multicultural congregation to learn learn from one another and and we clearly talked about the politics of heaven and how we're to display the politics of heaven on this earth and continually talk about the the transient nature of the politics of this earth how they're there here you can win an election but it's gone in four eight ten years and it really those things are eternal so we must build a foundation of the church on Jesus Christ on eternal materials because those churches that are building on worldly political ideologies it's gonna be wood hay and stubble and those pastors you know may be saved but they're gonna smell like smoke you know that's what Paul says in first Corinthians 13 they'll be saved though as through fire and so we have to be careful how we're building the church on the foundation of Jesus Christ alone dr. Edmondson I've got a maybe you can help counsel us with a couple things as we as we head out here in the last few minutes it seems as if this racial tension in America is amplified by some of these cultural flash points that we're talking about certainly we can go back in the recent years to Ferguson to the Charlottesville to the the NFL - certainly the presidential election how can we be best equipped to serve our communities in response during these crises how can we keep these sudden setbacks how can we understand them in proper context continue to get up that next day and continue that fight I mean it's just the blows keep coming and we never know when the next one's going to hit us things are grievous and also at the same time it is a good thing when the implicit becomes explicit so the touch points that we're referring to are just examples of the implicit becoming explicit and so I know for many people who have a strong sense of the data and the lived experience of racial injustice when these touch points happen we grieve but we also say see we're not crazy and we've said it for a really really long time and our ancestors said it before and so I think there's an opportunity in conflict there's a transformational opportunity if if we hear like like Jonah heard God's say again if we hear God say to us come to us again through these experiences and so the question becomes will we ignore will we downplay will we dismiss will we function as we did in the garden right to deny to blame to ignore to hide because we do that systemically and personally when it comes to sin or will we repent will we believe in the grace that God that Christ has secured for us on the cross we just celebrated Easter if we believe that the cross has given us grace then we repent and we repent with our legs our feet in our pockets and we repent in a way that's reparative beyond rhetoric but says what would it look like if things have been right Oh for quite some time what would this mean for the school system what would this mean for relationships between men and women what would this mean for job opportunities and disparities and maternal mortality mortality rates what would it mean and then we put our money to it and we make repair I've been blessed to watch your career in your writing for a number of years now and I've seen how you write and speak for justice and mercy even amid fervent opposition and division how could you use social media in particular in those platforms that any of that are available to any of us here for what we've been talking about here for faith and love for justice and mercy and not more fear and loathing and an ungodly kind of division yeah so the so the scripture is what binds our conscience and that's a beautiful thing because they can set you free and they can set you free to be able to speak truth in love and we do that in very broken way so we need to repent when we do that but it does give us freedom to speak out and when I think about maybe the teaspoon of opposition that I've been given four simple words online that is nothing compared to the Deaf threats compared to the assassination of MLK that is nothing and the Lord allows us right now to sit in a privileged place to say things that should be obvious like racism is wrong let's repent and repair so that is an honor and a privilege to say and bloggers and trollers and Russian bots they're not as scary as the Word of God is on my conscience [Music] benjamín I'll give you this last question what's the most encouraging sign you see in America today when it comes to race relations and how do we get more of that progress well for me I just traveled over here through a tornado from Huntsville Alabama last night literally almost thought I was going to die while driving down the street but I was there speaking and I was in Rome before that and have been a couple other places and there is a stirring and you mentioned it when the implicit becomes explicit what we've seen over the last several months several years is kind of an uncloaking of much of what was underneath and so conflict is not necessarily bad conflict is actually good how we approach the conflict is what's most important and so what I've seen is a large number of people in our churches black and white wanting to get this thing right and this is our time this is how it looks for us it looked a certain way years ago and another way years ago but but I've seen people young people who want to get this thing right and are broken the Bible talks so much about brokenness we cannot have progress unless we are first broken until God breaks our spirit makes us mourn for those who don't have makes us mourn for our sin when it comes to this issue leads us to repentance and leads us to forgiveness unless we have that brokenness we're not gonna get anywhere especially in this country which is so built on individualism he America is the individualistic country when we look at what we have and our status and our jobs are the letters behind our name what we've done we always in America like to say I did this because I worked hard because I did this I earn this the gospel says no you didn't earn anything I gave it to you by the blood of my son and so we don't have brokenness and we allow and we allow the Americanism and their patriotism to go into the Christian realm and to our churches and we sub constantly start the thing that you know I'm a pretty good person I kind of earn some of this salvation I can never be broken enough to see my wrong when it comes to this issue I will never repent when it comes to this issue because I don't think I've done wrong because I think I'm a pretty good guy and I like you you're okay with me but I won't see the broad spectrum when it comes to systemic injustice that has happened on and on and on and the ramifications of that I won't be aware of it and so what I've seen is people are genuinely broken and my prayer for all of us myself included is that I I stay in that state and that God through his spirit teaches me how to engage because when you're broken that's when God can lead you to the next step he can spur you on with what to read how to educate yourself what relationships to have how to open your eyes or certain things that how to get involved so I'm altom utley encouraged because the gospel gives us hope and because of the brokenness I've seen across the country when it comes to this because much of what has been implicit has become explicit well please join me in thanking our panelists

Channel: The Gospel Coalition

Views: 3,195

Rating: 3.9142857 out of 5

Keywords: the gospel coalition, the gospel, gospel, coalition, pastors, pastor, minister, ministry, Christ, Christian, Christianity, church, churches, faith, reformed, reformation, bible, biblical, evangelical, Jesus, God, spiritual, spirit, Holy Spirit, preacher, preaching, teaching, juan sanchez, justin giboney, collin hansen, christina edmondson, benjamin watson

Id: YPHlEWFuoNU

Length: 30min 17sec (1817 seconds)

Published: Fri Apr 20 2018