The Sovereign Individual Pt 1 - Bitcoin: The Ultimate Offshore Bank with Robert Breedlove

read love my man how are you are you ready i'm good peter i'm ready thanks for having me man always good to have you you are the man of the moment love talking to you okay listen before we get into this and i think this will be as we talked about before i think this will be multi-part i've got a few things i want to ask you about before we get into it i think a really important starting point is defining what violence is in the term of this conversation because when we think of violence traditionally for example today i was i was explaining the concept to my son when of the sovereign individual um he thinks of violence as somebody attacking physically attacking somebody but in terms of the book violence is more than just physical attacks on people which result in injury so for the sake of this conversation can we just define what violence refers to or the scope of violence yeah in the scope of the sovereign individual i would say you could sum it up in that it's viewing violence which you could also say violence or coercion could just be the threat of violence or force you know um influencing human action in the shadow of violence you could say is is coercion um you know you pay your taxes so you don't go to jail kind of thing and this has been as the book lays out a dominant resource strategy historically so it started and the proper way to think about government in this long arc of history is that once we settle down in the agricultural age and we started to accumulate surplus economic surplus right we're producing grain uh you know cattle whatever the output of the farm is we needed to protect that from plunderers from outsiders coming in to steal whatever the surplus was and government emerged on the free market essentially as a protection service for that economic surplus so you could say that you needed violence to protect from violence to insulate the productive economy from violence itself um and that's that's really the the framing of it throughout the rest of this book and then it explores how that protection service that monopoly on violence uh tends to become oppressive over time you know they start to abuse the privilege like most monopolies do they abuse their monopolistic privileges on society over time and how this how the actual the logic of violence which is largely driven by technology the cost of attack versus the cost of defense how this shapes the lines across which human beings organize themselves throughout history and i just i found it to be a very interesting way to look at things they explore the authors had written prior books on the gunpowder revolution uh and a couple of other things that actually zeroed in on some of this i guess one simple example would be the knight on horseback in the feudal age you know a fully armored knight could essentially wield force over a large group of peasants you know he could go out and violently um when in a bow with you know say 40 cousins or so but once the invention of the rifle occurred in the gunpowder revolution all of a sudden the the symmetry of violence reverted back to favor of the peasants where they could defend from a night at you know hundreds of hundred yards away um so these little technological shifts dramatically influence how society organizes itself uh the last point there the knight himself by the way and even more simplistic innovation made him possible because he needed the stirrup actually so he could mount the horse otherwise the knight was on foot and he couldn't really move for us across space easily so something as simple as the stirrup enabled the knight to become the dominant uh military force in the feudal age so what we're really discussing in this book is it's not the eradication of violence is that violence exists between humans and the logic changes with different technical innovations and the logic has changed through to the agricultural revolution through the industrial revolution and we expect to change through this information revolution but this all that changes is the logic in line with techno technological advances that's right the i would say the logic of the incentives to violence as well the big change in the digital age which i'm sure we'll get into is that encryption technology allows us to secure property in a way that's all you know when done properly immune to violent or unilateral excuse me confiscation or coercion so you know the clear case here is bitcoin if you properly custody your bitcoin uh you know on a redundant multi-signature geographically dispersed scheme there's not we always talk about the five dollar wrench attack that's what this is all about it's you can now put money in a place uh that actually analogize later on and the authors do as well the ultimate offshore bank it's a place behind this impenetrable wall um that cannot be compromised essentially so this radically changes the nature of the nation state which is premised on unilateral value flows they have you know they send you a tax bill that you do not negotiate you don't negotiate the rate you don't negotiate the services that you receive you also have no say so at all in state inflation revenue or they're just printing money to paper over uh you know either prior losses or to satisfy future expenditure at will and citizens have no say so on that um so the big big change here is that citizens the punchline i guess is that citizens end up being treated more like customers of governments in the future than they than they are employees so we could say employees as employees of an organization we just kind of have this democratic voice governance mechanism we can voice our opinion through our vote or what have you the majority wins so there's a tyranny of the majority and then also your are the will and intention of the majority sort of gets obfuscated in the electoral process whereas in a when you're a customer-based um citizen you have exit you have the optionality of exit so you don't like how the government's treating you well then your bitcoin goes everywhere the speed of light and there's not there's no capital controls there's no confiscation there's nothing any state can uh do to prevent that so therefore they have to negotiate with you more fairly they have to treat you better treat you like a customer um whose loyalty they are trying to earn like every other free marketing enterprise in the world and just remind me for a second because i haven't noted this down when was this book written this book was written in 1997 1997. okay so what we're trying to do here for the people who are listening is that if they haven't read the sovereign individual hopefully they will purchase a copy and read it it's uh it's in a high demand right now um but we're trying to extrapolate some of the ideas from that in a world where we now have bitcoin and know that bitcoin exists so this is what we're going to try and do with this interview uh interviews maybe multiple interviews is talk through the book talk through the learnings but i'll kind of relate this to bitcoin one thing the book i think that's really interesting it does really one in an interesting way is that when it discusses the industrial age and the agricultural revolution uh in a historical context and explains exactly what happens but then when it moves on to talk about the information age in a very similar tone it explains what will happen but that is a prediction so just a easy first question for you before we start getting into the details this book is a theory but it's for you is it an inevitability or is it something that is possible that you're preparing for i certainly don't believe in the concept of inevitability you know there's a certainly a feedback loop and i put bitcoin in that cam too right if you know the the threat of a black swan which is by definition an unknowable unknown always exists right we live in a universe pervaded by chaos and entropy anything can happen we don't know you know so i don't think the book is laying out an inevitability but they are tracing the historical changes in social organization based on this seemingly simple dynamic between kind of again as i said the cost of attack versus the cost of defense and i've found that this is the same moves when you're looking into the future it's very difficult to predict the future but you can get a directional idea looking at economics right so we could have not to say this would have been easy but like even looking at something like amazon and say the late 90s early 2000s like they that business model was premised on decreasing the cost of distribution [Music] and doing it in a more timely manner so a manner more in sync more harmonized to the customer demand those types of business models tend to win out so when you can decrease the cost of distribution that is related to expansion of the network a proliferation of the network and in this case um the book's looking at the information age which i call the digital age whatever we're going to name it here [Music] when you collapse the cost of information you've thrown like the very purpose of the firm by the way what we are accustomed to organizing ourselves within the corporation or the large nation state is to make transaction and information calls to be able to amortize those uh into the size of the firm so to decrease the cost of information by by having um trusted more trusted interaction within a firm but the authors make the point that when you decrease this cost significantly that the actual purpose of the firm gets called into question so people are more likely to self-organize themselves in new and in unique forms and in a world where you know in the industrial age where decree mattered so much where the actual law of the land was important because everything was done physically all right so that you could leverage your physical presence over capital so another example they go into is how unions would if they didn't like the wages they were being paid they would just strike right they could strike in place they could occupy the factory they could stop production because the production occurred in a physical location that gave them a violent or coercive leverage over that immovable capital um but the digital age where we have much more products and services that are of an informational content less less uh physical capitals involved in many of the business models in the digital age that option does not exist the there's a natural defender's advantage or defensive advantage um that gives people a lot of option to to move elsewhere to where they're treated best so the it's almost as if um coercion seeds to civilization in the digital age because it just doesn't work as well anymore now clearly this is not a blanket generalization to all industries there's certain things that are still going to be factory based possible probably still unionized for many years to come but it is to say that the flow of economic energy is away from physical industrial-based industry to digital non-non-local industry and that as that energy and productivity flows into digital space coercion does not work there because everyone had you know customer business owners and customers have optionality uh to the extent that they've never had before do you see with regards to that industrial age example you gave do you see the coercion working both ways in that um obviously you discussed unions working together to coerce the what they want but there is a reality also that those people within the production line have no ability to differentiate themselves because uh every job is kind of graded on a specific uh part of the production line and that person can be replaced with another person so people don't have a chance to be more productive they don't have a chance to differentiate themselves so you tend to get those kind of pay grades um do you see the fact that actually it's like a bi-directional coercive relationship at times because also some of these people are perhaps under threat that it's very difficult for them to move off and perhaps do another job moving to another industry perhaps where are they you know let's talk about what happened in the motor trade up in detroit right it's very difficult with those people are so conditioned to that single job within that single uh uh employer that also that they could be essentially have kind of abusive treatment from the plant owner so can it be bi-directional coercion yeah so it's a constant negotiation right it's every employment is at will so if you as an employee you do not like the wage you are receiving then it is incumbent upon you to go out and develop your skill set for alternative employment now as far as it being it would only be coercive to the extent that an employer could prevent an employee from seeking another job um which by the way we should probably back up a little here there's a mises makes this point in human action that we have this framework today where we think you know jobs are sacred it's almost like a human right we need to op the government needs to make jobs happen and all of this the only way to have uh unemployment is to remove interventionism from the economy so every time for instance when we increase the minimum wage we have increased the price of labor so we are now uh there are people that would be willing to work for a lower price but because there is a government mandated price on labor they are unable to get employment so minimum wage creates unemployment the very phenomenon it is intended to resolve and this is true and my mises goes into depth on this but every government action by the way this is a big one to swallow but when a government has to push something by decree they are necessarily taking factors productive factors out of the free market so you think of the free market whatever is happening in the free market a truly unambered free market would be the voice of the people consumers are sovereign consumers are buying and selling whatever they wherever there are profits to be made that's indicative of consumer that's unsatisfied consumer demand so entrepreneurs would go there and satisfy that want as soon as a government says i'm going to tax you here to do something that the market's not doing they've now restricted the sovereignty of consumers to go and reallocate that capital towards satisfying a political an arbitrary political government established aim at the cost of market participants having their own wants satisfied we have unemployment unemployment is an issue in the world as mises calls us institutional unemployment so it exists and is a problem because of government intervention so our misconception here is that we think we need more legislation or more minimum wage or whatever law to fix unemployment when in fact the opposite is true from a first principle standpoint is like you need to withdraw human intervention from the marketplace that's how you achieve full employment in that instance where we would say there's this bilateral coercive relationship between employee and employer that's more likely to only be the case when there's intervention when there's government intervention because in a free market that employee is going to have the widest range of options to go and sell their labor to someone else if they're not being treated well um so it's all about i guess creating these opportunities to vote with your feet you know we're talking about uh citizens having the ability to vote with their feet by taking bitcoin to leave to another jurisdiction employees being able to vote with their feet by leaving an employer to go to an alternative this the option to exit keeps everyone honest is kind of the gist of it and um yeah i think that the this relationship in that in that case is least coercive um but you know to your point that the it can go both ways it can absolutely go both ways there's there's a natural i guess human predilection to want to get something for nothing right i think that something for nothing is at the heart of all this is what the heart it's at the heart of central banking frankly we we want to produce money and create economic activity by just printing dollars um central bank shareholders want shares in central bank so they can profit from that money production from doing nothing they just get senior age on on this money production union workers want to get paid more even though the market's not bearing that out so they'll physically commandeer a plant and demand more and so there's just this human um i guess yeah predilection to want to try to steal or confiscate or get some get more uh gain more value than they've created let's say and that's where the importance of historically was this the state's purpose was to prevent that to prevent fraud to prevent the use of coercion and violence such that an economic network could flourish and but clearly the state has now become that abuser so now we're moving into this world where bitcoin actually gives us a fair game it's a game where that those strategies are neutralized effectively so that the dominant strategy becomes long-term cooperation that's how you're going to create the most value and the authors go into that they say that you know trust and reputation are likely to make a major comeback because uh you know of the irreversibility of some of this if you can steal a bunch of bitcoin no one you can't do that you can't go into the courts and fix that so it's they think that um the world will move towards something more like we saw i think it was in the i forgot what age they referenced with um where it was based much more on first of all your ability to be productive and then your reputation for being productive and you would come to trust that instead of um you know reliance on coercion to fix any any problems in uh in economic relationships in terms of how we're going to structure this there's quite a lot in the book this historical context we're going to cover um but we should do the setup for people as well as i said you should you should buy the book people should buy the book if they can get a hold of it if they can't they can definitely get hold of the audible it's on lops website i believe okay there's a free free pdf uh and it is it has been sold out on amazon it's back ordered right now right okay well i've seen it quite some quite expensive listings for it as well i've managed to get me a copy um but i've been doing the audio book version as walking but what we're really talking about here is we're going to be getting into what what the authors talk about as how the logical violence will change during the this information age that we're in and reference to the the virtual community and what microprocessors have brought to the table um do you want to talk about that and how how this is how this is actually changing the logic of violence but more of the setup because and once we've done that we will move on to talking about uh bitcoin as the kind of ultimate offshore bank yeah so i think it can help a quote framed this up for me really nicely and i think it was mentioned in the book but it's that quote technology is advancing much faster than our ability to understand its implications unquote and i think that's what this is all about and it's another version of andreessen horowitz infamous quote that software is eating the world um to me that that phrase rings louder every year you know it's one we originally thought oh who needs a website these things are just some weird new fancy thing you know ten years later everyone needs a website it's a must then comes the mobile wave where we have everyone needs an app or you need to be engaged with these these uh mobile apps and so it's changed business you can't really be in any industry now and not be at least tangentially in the technology business you're running your business on this on digital software that's true for everyone in the world otherwise you're being out-competed but i think it's also eating our institutional models it's eating the way we have organized ourselves for hundreds of years so it is one of these the authors going to these which is kind of a fourth turning thing i guess that every 500 years we have these major shifts um and we are living through one which is really interesting and frankly we're one year in to the inflection point i think which was coveted all right covet was a massive accelerant on this transition from industrial to digital age we already had a lot of the groundwork laid but people weren't working remote as much people weren't forced to shelter in place and by forcing people to shelter in place it seems like people started to study a lot more about what's going on right i don't know which i assume you know your educational content uh a lot of the bitcoin community i think has contributed that along with bitcoin number go up which really amplifies the whole message coupled with distrust and government rising as the state response to kovid was just you know abysmal so it's this it's this snowballing effect it seems to have gone really parabolic in the past 12 months and i guess the the theme here is that digital tools they're antiquating the nation-state model the nation-state model is based on forcible human organization so as the authors say they treated taxpayers like cattle that they just could corral them and pretty much take whatever they needed from them all right cut them down whenever it was necessary but digital technology empowers individuals as we've touched on a little bit in radical and novel ways that that change the balance of power between nation state and citizens and this all sounds maybe hyperbolic especially if you're just you know we're born into this world there are there's capital and institutions around us that things are flowing we kind of take it for granted right we just it just is the way of life we think through our own little limited view of reality we think this is just the way things are therefore it's the way it's the way it always has been therefore it's the way it always will be but when you start to study history you see that this is not the way it has always been not not not even close um and the way i like to think about this is that man like we're constantly optimizing for more energy efficient modes of action basically so the overarching purpose of man is to channel energy across space and time to satisfy his wants and we want to do that we want to use less energy to satisfy more wants right that is productivity in a nutshell and in that way we innovate tools right we can the classic example we can go out and dig more holes for a man hour with a shovel then we cannot bare hands and we also innovate models of society models of socio-economic organization that that i think is the proper framing as we if you start to look at human organization itself as a social device as a tool for allocating energy then you can start to compare which ones are more or less efficient and if we look at something like the 20th century where we had this ideological and economic contention between soviet russia and capitalistic in quotation marks united states because it was essentially a free market and everything except money um we saw that play out the resource strategy implemented by the united states out-competed ussr because they were leveraging uh more of the more free market intelligence if you will so they had the intelligence of every economic actor behaving in their own self-interest guided by the profit motive and the price signal um to generate more wealth whereas the ussr depended on this false sense of they tried to replace the profit motive with a devotion to nationalistic faith and they tried to instead of the price signal they wanted to command and control all economic decisions and so you had centralized computing essentially the ussr competing with decentralized computing in the united states free market and the the decentralized mode of human organization always out-competes a centralized mode not only is it more intelligent more intelligent it can bring more force to bear but it also is composed like an open source network if you will is composed more so of voluntarily adopted rules and this is very important in a you know fundamentally capitalistic society the rules are basically just preservation of life liberty property now clearly we're not a pure capitalistic society but i would say the united states was much closer to that ideal than soviet russia whereas a a tyrannical society has to impose all of the rules there are enforcement and security costs necessary to impose that rule set so for that reason again we talk about decreasing the cost of distribution leads to an increasing proliferation of the network if we decrease the cost of distribution of infra information and energy in a free market then it's going to proliferate more as a network it's going to create more wealth and it's going to out compete something like uh essentially planned model in soviet russia so this is the thing it's like so capitalism as a tool is better than communism but capitalism now this is where it gets a little tricky because the language has been abused we don't have capitalism in the world right central banking is anti-capitalistic it is it is a monopoly monopolies legal monopolies do not exist in pure capitalism that's why i created this new term or a bitcoin based mode of socio-economic organization where no one can monopolize bitcoin finally so the the theory here i guess is that as more capital moves into bitcoin that we it changes the shape of socioeconomic organization towards a more purified form of capitalism which i've called sovereignism here uh in in homage to the series and that mode will out compete state capitalism as a resource strategy it will attract the best and brightest citizens into it because it's a it's a fair rule set it's a place where people can protect the fruits of their own labor and can maximize their optionality and wealth creation over time so that's the mega political transition here it's like for the same in the same way and for the same reasons capitalism outcompeats communism sovereignism outcompetes capitalism and we're starting to see the early stages of this happening um a number of things you've said have reminded me of a conversation i had recently but balaji but also something he put out he tweeted recently it's a really interesting point that made me think about it for a while but he said we need to stop thinking in terms of the developed world and the developing well world i'm not sure if you saw this but he said we need to think of the ascending and the descending world it was a really good point because in reference to the united states it's definitely part of the developed world but i see a solid argument for why it's part of the part of the descending world uh we've seen the infrastructure breakdowns in texas recently we've seen the massive cues during the covert crisis for food uh we've seen ridiculous uh stimulus package upon stimulus package which is pushing us towards uh i say we're pushing america towards a more socialist state it isn't obviously a pure social state but there's certainly aspects of uh um uh interventionalism where there's like this redistribution of income which we always knows in and always know as inefficient uh the 1.9 trillion doesn't work out of the 1400 stimulus checks each is something like i think pierre rashad talked about about that would have been five and a half thousand each but it's money for schools and things whatever and what we're seeing is this migration of people in the u.s we've seen two forms of migration we're seeing the the state regulatory arbitrage where people are moving from california to uh let's say to wyoming or to miami or to uh texas we're seeing that but we're also seeing people actually exit the country and with bitcoin we're seeing the rise of these digital nomads i know of at least four that i'm regularly talking to and to be honest uh robert if my circumstances were different i would be a digital nomad right now because i've spent a year in lockdown i've got a state which is becoming very oppressive i've you know i live in one of the most well london's one of the most surveilled cities in the world we've got uh really really crappy free speech laws here we've got uh massive government debt and you know a lot of talk of raising in taxes corporation tax about to rise towards the capital gains taxes and so my productive output and my uh investment and putting my money into bitcoin is under threat of being taken by the state due to their failures and i'm now looking at what is my optionality so what you're talking about we're starting to see and we talk about this virtual world my business is a virtual world i have eight employees distributed around the world who i can pay in bitcoin if i want yo let's just throw one more into that i've had all my bank accounts closed down um and that was because i refused to tell them what i was spending all my money on i've said this none of your business have i've got to complain or complain so all these things you're talking about and all these things are talked about in the book i'm like experiencing myself and i'm seeing other bitcoin people experience it so rather than be a theory it kind of is playing out now we again no question we're in the digital age i think anyone that denies that is living under a rock but now we're one year into what i call the inflection point or the acceleration point and i now i think we're really starting to see a lot of the the hypothesis from this book start to really play out it had already nailed a couple of things it had predicted the rise of social media um it actually predicted the use of a pandemic by governments that when people started to protest governments would try to reinforce uh the relevance of borders through a response to a pandemic um so that's interesting to think about as well uh and i like the it was it was bellagi you said that did the ascending descending world this is much more this sort of speaks to the broader shift in world view as well whereas in the 20th century we're much more likely to think in statics like developed developing world right we think we can label something and that's kind of what it is first world second world third world things like that whereas in the digital age we've become much more aware just how fluid and dynamic the world is and at the bottom of that would be you know physics tends to kind of permeate upward how we look at the world and so we're moving away from the newtonian model to something more like or quantum or things with constantly fluid liquid influx um and that that way of describing the world ascending and descending is much more dynamic let's say that our traditional static viewpoints and it's a great point too that you can't assume that because the united states for instance has this legacy infrastructure that made it so superior in this particular age that that set of advantages carries over to the new competitive playing field so the the example here in fact the opposite is true that something that was once an asset can quickly become a liability so the the classic example here i've been talking to booth recently about the booth series is the blockbuster example they were dominant in content rental like video games movies etc etc because they had this huge network of stores and they had a very uh efficient logistics network for pumping these things out and getting new releases onto the shelves whatever whatever as soon as netflix came about um and became started to capitalize on streaming so actually streaming this content versus physically distributing it the very asset that was that that defined blockbuster's advantage in the marketplace oh almost overnight became their biggest liability so all of a sudden they're saddled with all these stores this this large distribution network logistics infrastructure all of the employees right that have been trained and dialed in on this mode of distribution it's rendered irrelevant almost overnight so you're at your greatest asset can flip to be your greatest liability almost instantaneously in the digital age and um you know possibility of that is something like 3d printing like this could this can occur on a much larger scale as well whereas today we have uh china serving as the production factory largely for the united states but also many other places in the world there's a huge amount of capital invested in that that logistics infrastructure if 3d printing becomes mainstream which it's something like we look again looking at the economics of it it's not making a prediction it's just saying okay what can a 3d printer do and it turns out it can produce today it's being used to produce high cost low volume parts way better than some than the china model we'll say so for custom pieces on a boat or something like that you can render a piece for say 150th the cost that's 10 times as good in quality um but as that becomes more mainstream and people can just download uh an idea or the software blueprint for whatever the thing is they're gonna print print it in their home or print it somewhere nearby you now collapsed the cost of distribution again you've informationalized this product so all of a sudden this this logistics infrastructure that you know say the united states has with china that all becomes a huge liability and therefore ascending world the developing world can potentially have a very large advantage in this transition um there's the example of africa right where they actually leapfrogged the telecoms um telecoms rollout where they were because they didn't have this legacy infrastructure that we have to upgrade here in the us and we had to go from telegraphs to telephones to 1g 2g 3g 4g whatever africa was able to adopt the latest and greatest much more quickly so it gave them a lot more agility to move faster than a develop developed world or descending world competitor and that's that's a good way to look at it too because you're getting these uh more nimble more modern um territories right that have adopted the latest and greatest technology without being burdened by the liabilities associated with legacy technology those become much more attractive they can they can move faster they can create more wealth there's less cost involved in them and in a world where state revenues are declining because people have recourse to something like bitcoin they can opt out of predatory tax regimes they can opt out of overly inflationary regimes they can just put their savings in the offshore bank of bitcoin state revenues are going to be declining so the states that have the least liabilities like in the us we have just a black hole of unfunded pension liabilities uh social security all of those it's this tremendous number that will never be paid so by the way if you're in your 30s or 40s or younger and you think you're going to ever draw social security um i would check your check your hope on that um the authors make the point in this world people will start to migrate to the states that are the most technologically agile that have uh the lowest liabilities because revenues will be in decline so states with lower liabilities will be more solvent and therefore less predatory right they're gonna they'll be less likely to um overly inflate or overly tax um their citizens so i think that's a great way to look at it it's it's instead of thinking of the world in static terms we need to think in rate of change terms and because the rate of change now is the big deal so things can move so quickly when you're on an exponential scale that you can go like something we just went through right bitcoin was under four thousand dollars a year ago and it's fifty thousand today the full market just started eight hundred and it's probably never going under twenty thousand again yeah probably not might you know without black swan reason it might never go under thirty thousand again and there's a chance it shoots up to a hundred thousand at some point this year yeah and we get a new base and with the same cycle repeats itself yeah if we use the last cycle as a proxy it never went below three times its prior all-time high so we'd expect it to run up some blow off top if the cycle repeats and then it would never come down below say 60k but we also have this change in situation with bitcoin where people of previous cycles have tried to pick a top or tried to sell or try to predict it but people are now thinking i have this pristine asset if i time it wrong i may end up i may end up through a certain trading period with less bitcoin than i had previously and that's not going to work for me so rather than play those cycles i'm going to hold on to that pristine asset like sailor talks about and i'm going to leverage the the cheap weak sovereign currency for my day-to-day needs and uh so that puts additional pressure on bitcoin because it lowers the available supply um which becomes becomes a an accelerator for this kind of bitcoin world which itself is super interesting yeah it's absolutely right that bitcoin is the tip of the spear on this whole thing by the way and it's as uh the authors have this quote they say quote when the greatest tax haven of them all is fully open for business all funds will essentially be offshore funds at the discretion of their owner unquote that's what bitcoin is it is the ultimate offshore bank that with no counterparty risk right you still had counterparty risk in the offshore banking model that was the preferred means of wealth preservation access etc in the 20th century because they had they had built a business around it frankly like swiss banks had built a business around being anonymous and secure and high accessibility they had good terrain by the way for protecting you know switzerland had geopolitical neutrality plus they had good terrain which makes them kind of hard to invade so they were this uh analog offshore bank if you will for most of the world a lot of a lot of this happened when europe was uh imposing really heavy taxes and the reconstruction period a lot of people moved their capital into swiss switzerland to protect it from that taxation so now the analogy is great i go into this in the next part two of the pieces that i'll publish that is that title bitcoin the ultimate offshore bank we have this mode of capital preservation that offers you know orders of magnitude more privacy accessibility uh inviolability than the swiss bank plus you have no counterparty risk so that's the i think that's the useful framing is it people are like oh what is bitcoin why would anyone use it it's magic internet money it's like no no no like offshore banking is a 40 trillion dollar market in the world today uh you know gold's 10 trillion they're both trying to serve more or less the same purpose it's trust minimized wealth preservation over time and to that end to set to the end of satisfying that want there is no better tool in the world than bitcoin and so as people awaken to that and they start to move their savings into bitcoin that's what drives us collapse in state revenues in both unilateral taxation and inflation well yeah because if the if if there is a collapse in revenue from taxation um and the tax and the tax receipts can't cover the outgoing government cost then as you know they have to increase spending as we've seen with these stimulus packages i mean the uk now has got i think it's uh its highest debt to gdp ratio position since something like the 1960s it's something ridiculous and we're about to see an impact on tax and the funny thing is even with the raising of the tax this 2.2 trillion dollar bet uh debt that the uk has it is never going to be paid off it's never going to happen but they will inflate it away and so you get people in a position and i think what's going to happen with this kind of with this transition to bitcoin we we're creating we're minting new bitcoin millionaires we're into new bitcoin whales all the time and i think that i can't remember what the price is but somebody recently told me about price where a certain price for bitcoin reaches there will be half the world's billionaires will be bitcoiners and i will be bitcoiners it's like a certain price um so you know these millionaires multi-millionaires billionaires who aren't happy with their services provided by their government aren't happy with the conditions are happily going to migrate become digital nomads go to you know friendly uh jurisdictions your portugal's your mortars your estonias your cayman islands you and that's going to again this could be another wealth drain out of these western nations again accelerating it everything feels like uh and it's like the parker lewis gradually then suddenly everything feels like this acceleration of what is happening here but what was quite interesting i'm referring back to your notes anyone listening uh mr breedlove has produced an outstanding set of notes uh taxing authorities have grown accustomed you mentioned this earlier to treating their taxpayers as a farmer treats his own cows keeping them in a field to be milked in the digital age these cows grow wings and we're seeing that yeah and i that's one side of it right like the the tax payers which this is that is the productive base on which all politics rest it needs a productive economy to siphon wealth off of to to be a non-productive politician let's say and there's no such thing as a productive politician by the way i make this point in the piece that the legislator's pen cannot create wealth it can only redistribute wealth so i think that's the big awakening here as well is that we're moving from a world where we thought somehow that by virtue of a popularity contest we could put a guy in office that could make things better and it's just silly it's just a silly nonsensical notion it's consumed a lot of our our cognitive space like if you go and talk to just at least in america you talk to your normal american they've got some big opinion about politics and how this guy is better than that guy or the skills but this girl is like it's all the same you know it's all the same none of it will ever create the outcome you want the only outcome is they will plunder the commonwealth to their own benefit they will serve their central bank masters that's the only guarantee in this whole game um and at the other side of the so that's the taxpayers right the other side of that is who you alluded to these ultra rich typically in these transitions governments become increasingly desperate you know as um the taxpayers are getting increasingly upset and distrustful of government they start to demand these exotic things like mmt wealth tax exit tax you know the taxes become disproportionately skewed on the wealthy there's a lot of anger towards the wealthy i'm debating with people on twitter sometimes tell me how evil jeff bezos is like how he is the incarnation of evil now having no conception of entrepreneurship or how much productivity say bezos's business has added to the world he has decreased the cost of living for people worldwide now not to say it's a he's a pure entrepreneur like he's benefited a lot from the fiat currency spigot as well largely because amazon was it was able to outrun state laws and state taxes in the early days so again they were able to decrease the cost of distribution relative to a walmart or whoever else um so had he he may have not been as successful in a truly capitalistic world who knows but to say he's evil is is silly you're shooting yourself in the foot if you don't want rich problem solvers it's that statement we saw regularly during uh whenever bernie sanders is campaigning is that billionaires should not exist right which is obviously a deeply flawed statement on so many different levels but the concept that they shouldn't exist puts a cap on yes production right which is just as bad as minimum wage right it creates its opposite effect you put a cap on wealth then you're going to suppress problem solving in the world you're going to increase the set of problems in the world and by the way which is so silly for a guy like that to say that we billionaires shouldn't exist we're going to go print 10 trillion dollars to give everyone helicopter money so you're going to make everyone a billionaire right you're we're going to be like zimbabwe eventually and uh was a zimbabwean everyone was a billionaire trillionaire yeah it's venezuela as one i think venezuela have just minted their million bolivar notes this week i think i saw i could be right i saw that government uh let's say ineptitude kind of reaches its climax which i think were near today people that are dispossessed because the government the central bank specifically has been printing money which confiscates wealth from those that depend on the store value function of dollars or euro or whatever it is the most so it's dispossessing people in the socioeconomic hierarchy it's in reaching those that are already rich this is the classic the rich get richer the poor get poorer when that hits a tipping point and that the middle class has been eviscerated enough people rise up right there's populism there's revolt there's anger and that becomes expressed through the voting mechanism through public demonstration through riots and protests and eventually politicians will capitulate and they will start to try and help more heavily tax the rich and i think when that happens actually overlaid with bitcoin being the only monetary medium available in the world that is totally immune to wealth redistribution which is to say confiscation i think that's going to be a major tipping point and that billionaires start to protect themselves from government overreach in bitcoin and that is only going to accelerate the need for government to print even more money to deliver helicopter money and what have you and i just don't see that being reversible because i've you know one the other funny thing about bitcoin is nobody becomes less bullish do you know anyone that sort of interacted with bitcoin and bought a little bit and then backed up i mean i you could maybe argue a few of these crypto jokers that are trying to peddle the [ __ ] coin but anyone's taking a serious look at it no one becomes less bullish no no you're absolutely right and i can think of key interviews i've done in the last year which made me more bullish which have led me to buy more bitcoin specifically one with our mutual friend brandon quitting where we discuss the fourth returning that's a great episode yeah the the episode i made with nick bartier discussing layered money uh i did an episode with ben prentiss and and heavily armed clown discussing what the [ __ ] happened oh and guy swan actually no i discussed um my episode with stephanie kelton and uh you get to that point with it i mean i think i think if you have the benefit of a full cycle so you've ridden a bear market and you're now in the green it becomes a lot easier to remain bullish because you should be able to survive another bear market yes your value in pounds dollars might drop but you once you can ride out any bear market you've essentially got to [ __ ] you money stage and then you you obviously you you don't become less bullish um and what happens is i think also over time what's happened this cycle a lot of your other fears start to drop away i think we now have i've talked about a few times i think we have this regulatory moat around us now we're not fully protected but we have a certain amount of protection with the amount of money that's in bitcoin the fact that tesla and bitcoin the squares and bitcoin and mike said we have these people there if the regulator's trying to push too far if they try and put two onerous regulations in place we have this pushback i think certain states could still ban bitcoin i still think brazil india russia those types of more authoritarian state could still ban it i think in europe and the us and the western nations i think it's a little bit more difficult but you're right um i think what happens is you become more bullish and i think you become more fearful of holding sovereign currencies which i have considering this ultimate bitcoin offshore bank and considering people don't become less bullish considering this kind of the incentive model for bitcoin there's two things i think about with regard to the state wrapped around the idea of this kind of transition period um i'm often you know when i'm discussing with libertarians i'm often thinking with regard to the state there are politicians or there are people who are naturally evil or who are naturally power hungry but i don't believe every politician is whether or not we believe they're all have had no value or take value away i still believe some politicians themselves are institutionalized to the idea that we need the state and politics is a natural part of life and they go in with good intention i do believe there are politicians with good intention so i'm often thinking well why why is the outcome always the same why is the outcome always negative and i think it's just the the way the game theory of politic politics plays out um and the way that politicians tend to be you know protect the state and protect their own jobs and protect their own interests yes as we all know during a pandemic no politicians stopped getting paid or were furloughed and lost 20 of their revenue of their salary um so i do start to think about we do have this regulatory moat around bitcoin at the moment it probably isn't seen as too much of an existential threat to the state but based on the theory of uh the sovereignism and the sovereign individual that it is ultimately an existential threat so i'm interested in like the transition period how will the state react what kind of reaction will we see and you know as you put in your notes so the government has grown used to enjoying a monopoly of a currency that they could depreciate as well they're going to lose inflation as a revenue options like and as you've said here like individuals are now free to opt into the most user-friendly monetary policy ever zero terminal inflation rate like i am interested in this transitional period what's the state reaction going to be are we going to see some kind of war are we going to see an attack on bitcoin it you know uh neil woodford talks about this he said the real battles to come with bitcoin you know the civil war you know we've had the bitcoin civil war the real battle is going to become with the state when they realize the existential threat that it is to who they are how much have you thought about this yeah it's the most it's the greatest known unknown you know we alluded to earlier black swan's unknowable unknown this is we know this is a threat to bitcoin actually bitcoin is designed around this entire threat it's designed to be survivable through a nation-state attack through concerted nation-state hostility even bitcoin has made every engineering trade-off possible to optimize for survivability for this very reason it is the ultimate enemy of the state if you will properly understood now when you start to actually talk to politicians and and central bankers about this i don't know that they fully see and grasp its implications at this point um i would say it's becoming again would number go up it's increasingly clear that this thing is a it's a big deal but you would expect at some point there to be this self-preservation darwinian-like response from the institutions that face existential threat from bitcoin um and i don't know my thinking on it my thinking on it now is actually that so you you alluded to earlier there's we tend to think there are certain bad good people bad people good bad apples good apples i actually think that people and their characters are emerging properties of the incentive structures they are operating within one of my favorite quotes which a lot of people don't seem to get when i say it but i think it's very deep and meaningful is that human nature is like water it takes the shape of its container so there have been a number of experiments run where you if you put a person in a position of authority or they have a certain asymmetric advantage over another they tend to kind of fill that role you know let's just stand for prison experiment that's right the exact one but if you put them into a situation where the rules are you know fair fixed equitable then people are going to adapt to the again the most advantageous strategy which in that situation would be long-term cooperation um or fair competition you would say based on those rules so i think the where bitcoin takes us is that we today we have politics as a scaled-out affair right we in the u.s are concerned about what political happenings are occurring in washington dc right even if you're in california on the west side of the country that's only because there's a monopoly on money if there's no monopoly on money you're gonna really quickly disregard what's happening in the political sphere at the other end of the world um this so another way to say this is that when you move out of fiat currency and into bitcoin extortion is no longer scalable so you're not able to to suffer under this this invisible form of extortion we call inflation or unilateral taxation um and and politics itself and government reverts back to a more localized affair so as far as what uh and so we can think here too that the the other flaw and thinking that i think is really important to flush out and this is really common with a lot of macro guys and girls right uh oh china owns bitcoin the united states will never let it happen like they talk in these economic aggregates as if there's a single indivisible unit in the world called china or the united states and it's just not reality it's not real at all what is real is that we have this more or less tightly grouped constellation of mutual interest sociocultural affiliation affiliation whatever it may be that comprises the nation state so it's not like china is this i mean china would say has the ccp which tends to be a little more singular directive in action so that it behaves more like an indivisible aggregate but something like the united states is much more decentralized we'd say even though there's a strong federal government it doesn't mean that the the u.s moves as like one single entity in all areas uh of decision making and so what i see happening here is that every one of these uh you know judges policemen arbitrators every everyone that works in the government they have a dual hat they have another hat they wear as a citizen basically so they're engaging with bitcoin maybe through two different lenses one is hey i need to go do my job and like make my boss happy he needs to make his boss happy and and respect the the government bureaucracy and we can put central banks under this umbrella anything any government bureaucracy but they're also operating with this hat of hey i'm a citizen i need to protect my wealth i need to provide for my family etc etc so what what i think will happen here is that as you know the magic of bitcoin number go up technology right the harder governments squeeze the more they try to to confiscate inflate increase taxes etc the more people are going to slip between their fingers into this ultimate offshore bank of bitcoin which increases its market cap and as we all know incentives again human nature like water takes the shape of its container incentives shape reality for you if you're a bitcoin holder and all of a sudden it's you know 10x in price you're gonna maybe think a little differently about how you treat it from a regulatory standpoint as an individual right maybe that shapes how your boss looks at it or maybe he's also bought a little bit to protect himself from inflation so the analogy i make is that i think bitcoin acts as this digital acid that's kind of dissolving the the incentives that that that bound nation states and institutions together i think kind of dissolves them from within i go into this in the piece actually there's there's a psychological experiment called the selective attention experiment and it a psychologist assigns a task to the experi the people in the experiment and they're watching a video it's a short video 20 seconds long people with black shirts and white shirts and they say all right you watch the people in the black shirts count how many times they pass the basketball back and forth they're all in a basketball court running around passing the ball and so you do that you engage with the task you count the number of passes the basketball and then at the end of this 20 second video the experimenter asks you so how many times have they passed the basketball and you know whatever seven eight ten whatever the number is then the experimenter asks okay thank you did you see the six foot man in a gorilla costume walk into the middle of the frame of the video flail his arms about for five seconds and then walk off screen and like 75 of people don't see him i didn't see it yeah i know the video i didn't see it if you go and it's crazy it's on youtube you can go do it yourself like granted once you know it you sort of see it and i don't know but if someone gets you with this without describing it to you in full like it's been repeated many times 75 or some people don't see it so the moral of the story there is that your your incentives or your the the aim of your goal directed action determines not only how you see the world but it determines what you see in the world you literally don't see that guy in the gorilla suit if you're not if there's no incentive for you to look for him basically you're following the passes and i think that bitcoin will shape not only how regulators in their in their role as citizens see the world but will also shape what they see in the world we'll start to look at this uh alternative financial system differently and then to your point earlier we already have this regulatory mode where every time a square a tesla micro strategy any of these major public equities take a position they bring with them an army of lobbyist influence you know political affiliation etc so it becomes really hard to resist at some point and i think instead of there being this i'm sure there's going to be a counter stroke from the state i'm sure there's going to be some fight but i think it's going to be less of this epic battle between bitcoin and the state it's going to be more like the state dissolving into bitcoin over time there will be people on the side of the state we've already seen the typical kind of arguments that and it feels like people who think they've missed out i certainly think there's some people who feel like they've missed out and therefore they want to be anti-bitcoin and they'll pick up whichever the mainstream press do a lot pick ever whatever kind of fud there is like tether the tether fad until the tether flood passed away and that's gone now now it's energy fired whatever it is i certainly think there's there's that i also certainly think there's people who just do not agree that um the idea of you know a full anarchist world is better than one with states and countries and and some people believe that despite all the flaws we are better off with the state we're better off with that pulling pull of democracy even with its flaws because without that we don't have like the book does comment on this we don't have a a a working example of a operational country which is essentially anarchist in nature or without a state i myself still can't get myself to a position of that but i do like the idea of a smaller state i do like the idea of uh bitcoin dissolving in uh sorry the state disowned into bitcoin but providing a service you know that that and they are you know forced within that provision of that service to keep to a budget because they don't have the ability to print money as they do now um so that transitional period is the thing i'm thinking about where do we end up where do we become and and and it reminds me of a conversation over there before he's a long time ago he said you know despite him being a libertarian he's like i'm not calling for the end of the state now what i'm calling for them is to get smaller first five percent smaller next year and see what happens and for me what this becomes is almost like an a b test of the state of what can they provide or what should they provide you know if they are restricted to a budget what do they what services do they drop first and it then becomes perhaps that we do operate with the state but a much smaller stay you know in a different way that's providing services which you know are um subject to the free market no it's a great point um i would argue that there is no historical example of this you know crypto anarchist ideal of social organization because of what we're talking about by the way right money has always been confiscated coercion and violence has always been useful because we didn't have digital technology we didn't have encryption frankly to put these things whether it's capital commercial relationships ideas we could put them behind an impenetrable digital wall now we didn't have that defender's advantage in any of the analog ages right agricultural or industrial so that's why i'm in this piece i'm like i've called bitcoin before this it enables this purified form of capitalism but i think you just have to almost give it an entirely new name because nothing like this was possible before bitcoin and encryption tech essentially that's the big change here um and it really fundamental level the book goes into this i'll try to do it justice but this is something rooted in mathematics that encryption itself it's very easy to multiply prime numbers but it's very easy to divide them and determine if they're prime so it makes the point that this simple asymmetry in the math the structure of mathematics itself actually creates this defender's advantage that reshapes society um i don't know that i did that on justice perfectly but i would say go check that out in the book it's it's it talk about first principles right it's like we've discovered something in mathematics effectively that causes us to reorganize ourselves so it's super bottom up um but the point on democracy that's another that's what the free market is by the way it is a pure democracy it's economic democracy it's we're all voting with our buying and trading and selling decisions and since bitcoin enables that um in a more pure sense we're going to have this miniaturization of the state which is not it's going back to what it was originally as a localized protection service so whatever physical capital we have locally that needs to be defended and protected the state would provide that um but on something like bitcoin those property rights are being defended by by the mining network right it's in the the defense is in built into the money almost so that's just another way to look at is that we've just reduced the need of citizens for the protection service itself because the assets being protected uh are now it's the securities integrated into the asset with bitcoin and then the state also say the book also goes into and this is a prediction we've yet to see play out that we would see the broader digitization of property rights as well and i heard a really interesting podcast i forget the gentleman was on there but he's discussing rgb which is uh you know a third layer protocol on top of bitcoin how it actually can enable a lot of these contractual relationships uh independent of the court system so who knows you know bitcoin may underpin even more than we understand today could be even more than money it could be the base layer for digitizing uh tangible property rights as well but the big thing here is i think the other way to get another way to think about this i know i'm always doing that but that's how i think um monetization itself shifts our incentives so whatever we're monetizing we produce more of so when we monetize gold right gold say gold has a one trillion dollar market cap for its industrial use roughly whatever electronics teeth etc well gold's market cap is closer to 10 trillion why did we produce so much more gold because we monetized it right there was a demand part of its demand configuration was industrial and part of it was for exchange monetary use case so we increased production of gold because we monetized it fiat currency is debt that's what it actually is it incentivizes you to take on more debt because inflation erodes real debt burdens at the time so we monetize debt in the creation of fiat currency where are we at now we have 350 global debt to gdp and rising um another way to think about that is fiat currency where i say it's backed by nothing but it's backed by the anticipated future cash flows of the taxing authority so fiat currency is backed by coercion and violence so we have monetized coercion and violence that is why it is with increased production of coercion and violence at the state level right and again not to say that it's you're shooting people to pay their taxes it's in the shadow of as we just as we define violence at the beginning of the episode in the shadow of this uh unilateral um imposition or decree or threat of violence or threat of coercion um that's what fiat currency is premised on and moving into the bitcoin world we have a technology monetary technology that has monetized energy so now the in theory at least should that that relationship hold we would increase the production of energy tremendously and we'd decrease its cost of reduction and if you look at something like the kardashev scale have you heard of this where you're like type one civilization type two type three oh yes yeah yeah yes i have it so type one i may have the type stronger but you've harnessed all the energy on your own planet type two you've harnessed the energy of your solar system type three so on and so forth and that is the arc of civilization we we again human human beings are the animals that channel energy across space and time towards the achievement of aims the more energy we can harness the more civilized we become so i think bitcoin is the gateway uh to that higher order civilization and that's what all of like what we're trying to get our head around is that it's this tectonic shift away from statism towards sovereignism it's funny because i've got a note here you know i was going through the notes uh and i'm working on an idea for a show uh ben prentice who's now a producer on what bitcoin did and um we're working on this idea of this show called the brilliance of satoshi like everything he got right and it's it's really interesting to watch these other [ __ ] coins you know change their monetary policy or pivot or blah blah blah because they're always trying to reconfigure themselves um very little of that has had to happen with bitcoin it's pretty much out of the box its monetary policy has never changed it seems brilliant in design um but not only that you know we're having this quite deep conversation with regards to the future shape of society yeah this transitional phase and there's so much deep intellectual discussion uh by very smart people regarding bitcoin and i just put a note here it's like i mean we don't know if satoshi is alive or not or following this but i wonder if he really fully comprehended like if he thought about it like this deeply thought that i wonder if he just thought look i'm going to create this form of you know money out of out of reach of government out of control you know with a fixed supply you know trying to make the fairest hardest best money there is or he actually realized that bitcoin could be an essential component of civilization civilizational change i mean we won't know but i just wonder that i have a hard time imagining that one guy could you know have foreseen all of this like this bitcoin is such a powerful gravity well in terms of finance capital human organization philosophy it just it is an incredible rabbit hole right the rabbit hole of all rabbit holes clearly satoshi was brilliant he she or they but i have a really hard time imagining they could have envisaged all of these consequences right and how fast it all happened i mean what's the hardest question now when people are like what is bitcoin because it becomes a harder question to answer because it's like well i want to tell you this but like this little dot but really it's like all of this you know i talked to my son you know we have really long conversations about this and i do my best to try and explain it as best i can in a way that he can understand and comprehend but it is it's more than just saying you know it's hard money it's digital gold like yeah you know based on the theories of for example the sovereign individual or based on the potential civilizational change we're going through if we are in the fourth turning as i discussed with brandon quit and therefore the importance of bitcoin based on all these things like it's such a deep rabbit hole um that you know i just i just i like i say i wonder if he fully comprehends comprehended it perhaps he did perhaps he you know perhaps he read the sort of an individual perhaps that was an inspiration i mean we'll never know but it's certainly on my mind yeah i think he i mean he probably did read the sovereign individual honestly he's very much dialed in to the cypherpunk ethos well he was a cyberpunk um but i you know it's funny people talk about the monetary policy of bitcoin and it's actually it obliterates the notion of monetary policy so we could say that okay it was satoshi's policy maybe you could say that that he just picked the number but what he was really doing was choosing the fairest rule for money which is that no one can confiscate it by inflation right it's perfectly predictable perfect information it's really just using inflation to bootstrap itself to bootstrap the network into existence but there's no unknown inflation so it actually is it's almost like a form of natural law so right he's created this law that exists independently of mankind so the same way we have to figure out how to deal how to deal with gravity and how to deal with thermal dynamics we now have to figure out how to deal with 21 million bitcoin zero percent terminal inflation and that's why bitcoin is [ __ ] you money right it's [ __ ] you to every policy every policy every police state and every politician in the world and it's like that's the power of it that is the the core power of it that's why it's the tip of the spear to this uh sovereignism thesis and in terms of what it is i agree with you we have no idea the same could be the foundation the you know we talked about property rights earlier there's lightning network there's there's so many use cases that are possible on top of it we don't know we simply don't know what i do one description i do like a lot though is it we found a way to mix electricity plus greed and turn it into indisputable truth right we just said we just have electricity to mine we have darwinian self-interest self-preservation stir it in a pot and now i have global and disputable truth for all of us to build our own economic strategies in trying to serve one another and serve ourselves in the process dude listen i think for a part one that's a really good point to end it um i think it's a great introduction there are some other bits we're going to have to cover in a follow-up pass we've got to look at the historical perspective and see how this plays out but man honestly i couldn't talk to you for hours especially through this [ __ ] i learned so much um sometimes i'm like are we like being weirdos here we're being hyperbolic one of the things i've realized is that i've kind of i've kind of held off with the more hyperbolic claims of bitcoin as ever since i've been in and i've always felt i found myself apologizing because they're they're often right i've read a number of things come back and read a number of things on uh pierre rochard and bistine's website nakamoto they predict they themselves i've predicted a lot of what's happened so now i'm just i'm just in for the ride like i'm i'm in now let's see how this plays out but that's a great start dude listen just tell people where to follow your work and we will follow this up with uh subsequent parts yeah i'm excited to do that i think this is a really important text to share and well i think we'll once we get done with this let's open source all the notes uh we can point people to the book online as well this is important because this transition very uncertain uh the most the best thing you can do is arm yourself with knowledge i think so that's why i feel very strongly about what we're doing here and hopefully the writing too helps again my name is robert breedlove i'm on twitter at breedlove22 brwdlve22 just started the what is money show so there's links there i'm doing these long-form intellectual discourse sessions with the most prolific thinkers that will sit down with me um working with jeff booth now and yeah it's similar to what we're doing here you know we're going deep on topics and uh hopefully externalizing the minds of some of these great thinkers for other people to see and and the quote i heard recently was i forget who said it but civilization is a race between education and catastrophe so we're just trying to you know amplify the education side well listen man um you know what i think of you i i think you're one of if not the most important speakers about bitcoin right now i think the work you're doing is fantastic um what i love about it is that you're drawing in other voices outside of bitcoin other people who are just kind of being tempted by it and they want to talk to you and i think the work you're doing is important and i hope some of the most important shows out there start getting you on i know you've got some stuff coming up uh we've talked about other shows hopefully you'll be on but look just keep doing what you're doing it's really really important work i'm learning a lot from you and i appreciate everything you do man thank you thank you bro i really appreciate you too and thanks for having me i did

Channel: What Bitcoin Did

Views: 27,262

Keywords: Bitcoin

Id: yNNDDcDb2vQ

Length: 85min 37sec (5137 seconds)

Published: Fri Mar 12 2021