The Science of Losing Body Fat | Alan Aragon

for fat loss um eat your carbs whenever the heck you want there's some really interesting um arguments going on with with carb timing with respect to fat loss and stuff but ultimately when you look at the body of evidence it just doesn't freaking matter enough when you eat your carbs in a day whether you front load your carbs in the day whether you back load your carbs in the day um there's research supporting like the these little nuances in both directions um there's the whole intermittent fasting thing where there's different models within that where people are pushing I don't eat carbs after 6 p.m or all we gotta wait till you eat carbs and none of that freaking matters right none of that none of it matters and you you eat the carbs when you want to eat the carbs and you structure your diet in such a way that you can actually adhere to it in the long term because ultimately at in the end what matters for fat loss is that you are sustaining this net caloric deficit by the end of each week and you're stringing a bunch of weeks together [Music] I'd like to thank one of the sponsors of the show and now I've been using Trident coffee if you follow me at all on Instagram for a very long time this is veteran-owned Trident coffee they have two tap rooms located in San Diego they offer 14 different kinds of cold brew on tap including dairy free options I absolutely love their lattes their straight cold brew all available in a can you can go to tridentcoffee.com Dr Lyon for believe it or not 20 off I deeply deeply encourage you to try this they even have in their latte MCT oil really amazing um I wish I could tell you my favorite flavor but it just seems to switch every time I get a new one like most recently lavender Trident coffee is also available at Sprouts Central Market and hundreds of other grocery store locations throughout the United States in fact I first found them at Bonnie's on Coronado and I will tell you they also make keto Donuts churro keto Donuts are my favorite so if you're listening and you want to send me some churro keto Donuts I would love it Trident coffee that's spelled exactly how it sounds tridentcoffee.com Dr line for 20 off welcome to the Dr Gabrielle line show and I am sitting here with the one and only Alan Argonne 25 years of experience my friend really one of the OG's in the space in fact he was one of the original individuals that brought evidence-based practices and protocols to the health and wellness space which is absolutely incredible welcome thank you so much for having me Gabrielle it's a real pleasure to be here I know this is so great um thank you so much for coming down for sure for sure we have lots to chat about um and one of the reasons I really want to do to come down and for me to be able to spend some time with you is that the quality of your work is really outstanding out of all the individuals in the space when you put something out I feel that it is very trustworthy and it's also consistently been that way you know so I'm like oh no he was wrong on that or is that questionable it's you've really done a phenomenal job thank you thank you and the only way somebody does a job like that is because they have a really strong why and I am curious is to why you do what you do it's I I think it's just how I'm wired I I don't know any other way to do it and if I'm incorrect on something or if I'm a little off on something then my audience will let me know like I mentioned yeah if a figure is wrong or if reference is wrong my audience is just as diligent as I am and they'll DM me in this hey Helen I'm so sorry to bother you but you know this is in kilograms and not pounds and I'm like oh goodness you're right okay let's fix that and so so yeah that that's really the only way I know how to operate and you're very meticulous yes and you've always been this way yeah absolutely yeah yeah how did you get interested in the health and fitness space because you really you know it's interesting two decades later um when people start it's usually in the beginning maybe you're kind of seen as an outlier a little bit of uh Rebel or crazy or people are probably challenging your views you know when you started why did you start how did you start you were definitely ahead of your time yeah I didn't necessarily um like come straight out the gate knowing exactly what I wanted to do with my life uh you know being perfectly candid right there's I'm capable of all kinds of stuff I mean I I have artistic ability musical ability and so um and I I love art and it's pretty amazing yeah yeah and I love entertainment and and so I originally thought that hey maybe I'll be a musician or or I'll be some sort of an artist that I like to paint and draw and stuff um but then life kind of does what it does and uh I got interested in just the idea of of how do the how did the bodybuilders on the covers of magazines they look like that that's that's really cool because um when you're a kid a lot of kids are interested in in superheroes comic book superheroes and you just kind of have those those images burn in your mind and they really sort of stick with you and then when you see people looking like that I don't know but for somebody like myself wasn't just a bro uh I don't think you're just a bro but okay it just totally interested me and and so I finally found a focus that um I mean it's all the things that that I was interested in that that could possibly dive into and um oh boy no way before adolescence yeah just yesterday yeah yeah yeah before adolescence um and it really inspired you it really did inspire me but I didn't really dive into it because I originally was going to get a degree in graphic design because back in the uh the the 80s the the career of personal training didn't really exist honestly like it didn't exist until the late 80s that's wild and in the early 90s it was just beginning to be accepted as a career path what were people doing was it a lot of cardio is it uh you know I mean was it I saw that bandana the bandana and leg warmers but oh gosh what were they it was you know the fitness Fitness route career-wise it just didn't exist unless you wanted to own a gym okay um or unless you wanted to be some sort of uh cardiac rehab type of exercise physiology side of things um or even athletic training so personal training and the fitness field really was born in the late 80s and so uh just in time for the birth of that that career path I decided that you know I I'm in this graphic design major because I have an interest in art but it's not exactly what I want to do and I just want to explore this Fitness thing I have a handful of friends who are doing personal training and they're enjoying it and uh having grown up in La there was this whole thing back in the 90s there there's this glamorous idea that you know that the people who are really enjoying their lives their their personal trainers and their personal trainers to the Stars okay okay and I thought to myself trainers to the stars that sounds really cool yeah so um the National Academy of sports medicine who at the time was headed by um the head trainer was Tom Purvis uh and he was partnered up with Mitch Simon um they were beginning to sort of wake the industry up to a bit more of a an objective approach a little bit more analytical uh approach and Neil Spruce was one of the guys behind it he started Apex Fitness and now it's got fit and who knows what else Neil's doing nowadays so I just got my personal training certifications and got really excited about everything and decided to change paths and go into nutrition as I did personal training in the 90s got it and so that's basically the start of everything yeah and then of course 10 years later um as we were discussing um did nutrition degree yeah right graduate degree in nutritional Sciences I did my nutrition degrees uh the my master's degree in nutrition was kind of an after thought I thought I was just going to get a bachelor's degree in nutrition and just continue on with personal training but then um as my classmates filed off to internships and I sort of felt like you know it made me able to do a little something extra I'd have gotten a master's degree and then I it was during my Master's Degree that I discovered that whoa research and Science and and stuff that's the stuff is cool yeah and it's really important yeah and so from that point hopped online started discussing and debating and and seeing that there was this whole world of people in the fitness Realm who had no idea what science was what research was what the role of science and research had in the forward progression of our knowledge and ultimately our results and what we want to accomplish physique wise health-wise yeah and everything else and so it was just an incredible experience going from like 2003-ish all the way to 2013 and seeing the evidence-based Fitness movement just kind of get born and and then flourish and be one of the guys at the head of the spear yeah try to push that forward yeah so it was basically me Lyle McDonald will Brink oh gosh who else Wayne Norton a little bit further down the road and then it just kind of went from there and it's been like a couple of you know another generation a newer generation of folks who are like half my age and double my energy just kind of taking the stuff that that me and and the Old Guard started and they're really keeping it going did you find that there was pushback you know it's interesting so now you're presenting uh evidence-based protocols and we could agree that evidence-based I don't see evidence-based medicine so we could say evidence-based Fitness and Wellness is really a mix between what the science shows and then also boots on the ground would you would you agree with that definitely definitely and people get mad at the idea of evidence-based Fitness uh they get mad because a lot of the people in the evidence-based Camp are a little bit too focused on waiving abstracts around from PubMed they're a little bit too focused on arguing on the basis of who can post more links to studies who can quote more conclusions from studies and while that's important it's also important to assess the uh external validity or the real world relevance of the methods in the study yeah who was studied what was the protocol how relevant is it to the real world and so there has to be a combination of what we know in in research and what's been published in the peer-reviewed journals but there's always going to be these broad swaths of gray area that we just not we haven't rooted it out yet in the labs and I don't think we will ever root it out and therefore true evidence-based practice is what's the weight of the evidence in the research literature which exactly what you said people I think really are very rigid on that and that's you know in clinical practice it doesn't combine it with field observations because field observations are always going to fill in these knowledge gaps right and they'll never be fully filled in so true evidence-based practice is Bridging the knowledge gaps in the literature with what we see with real people in the field and so it's it's that convergence of those things that makes evidence-based practice Yeah you know in your book you did a great job so your book is 10 chapters right yeah and two of those chapters are dedicated to research evidence-based practices and just helping the consumer the lay public and I would say even non-lay public interface and understand how to choose a study trying yeah and everybody wants to know I want to know selfishly you read a ton of literature yeah yeah how many hours do you read a week today oh boy I'm afraid to I'm afraid it just look at it which again makes the finest individuals the finest individuals in their space are the most well read there is you know that's true yeah well yeah life balance I mean you gotta work on that but yeah which means Alan is not kind of having a work-life balance but breathing a lot I'm working on it you know it's I I totally can appreciate that how do you vet information because there's a lot more information that's coming through now I mean there's tons of abstracts there's tons of data and we have more journals we don't have to go to the card catalog anymore oh Blair remember absolutely you know you actually had to uh call people on the phone and look it up and now it the information overload is incredible absolutely you are identifying so you have a research review which by the way I am I read I am a subscriber and there's articles how do you how do you vet that what is your process do you have a process I'm sure you do yeah yeah and it's kind of a holistic um kind of see the big picture and weigh it against the backdrop type of thing it's almost almost instantaneous and and um of course I I tend to be biased towards the longer standing journals um like American Journal clinical nutrition phenomenal uh gosh there's some some great review nutrition reviews um there's the uh Journal of the international Society of Sports Nutrition which you've published in I believe right yes yes yep there's the uh the jscr and there's the uh scj there's there's a bunch of really good stuff in the um nutrition and exercise Sports Nutrition um areas for sure and the the ebb and flow of research as it comes down the pike is really interesting to have watched over the last few years when covet hit you just start seeing a lot of and this was um kind of a serendipitous thing that happened to be a good thing it's like we have all of these studies just being churned out all pumped out we have all kinds of data but we haven't quite tried to make heads or tails of it and so what kova did was it made everybody have to stop their experiments yeah and just take a look at all the data that we have right now and just try to review it and say what are we learning here what are we what are we actually getting out of this that we can put to practice um what kind of big picture are we getting out of all the training studies on reps sets and rest intervals and stuff what what are we getting out of all the nutritional studies testing different doses of protein and carbohydrates and fat and so so yeah it's been really cool to see a bunch of systematic reviews roll down the pike a bunch of narrative reviews roll down the pike and even a bunch of just um editorial and opinion pieces saying you know this is what we think we know in this area so to get back to your question after I just kind of went on no no it's great The Listener definitely wants to know they always want to know how the expert does it and so helpful us you know studies for my research review I number one if it interests me if the topic is interesting then my audience will be interested in it because my audience um in certain ways are extensions of of myself yeah um but I just love anything having to do with diet as it relates to body composition um either fat loss or you do have that there's a issn paper on body composition yes and I think that that is one of the most red and cited studies is that is that's right that's right it's way up there yeah incredible and we'll link it we'll link it some people can of course yeah I'm pretty I'm really proud of that we wrote it in 2017. and um that that's an interesting story because um Jose Antonio Joey Joey Antonio um the founder of issn him and Doug calman founded the um the international Society of Sports Nutrition I did not know that okay yep yep he asked me if I would be willing to write the position stand on diets and body composition and it's the very first one um and these things get an update every 10 years right so in five years we're gonna see how we can improve that thing how kind of reissue it and see what we've learned but but yes so it's it's things like that it's research that impacts either fat loss muscle gain or both uh as well as um athletic performance um and a smattering here and there of health and and clinical stuff it's interesting though I I just wanna it's really interesting in the fitness world it's it's like fat loss health and performance and then kind of over here it's health and wellness but really it's all interconnected it is for sure but it's never the focus um you know body composition and I would love to talk you have a great book called flexible dieting which my uh audience knows very well and if you don't you better we'll also put a link to that um I am curious I I want to talk about body composition and you led me right into it so we're going to talk about it what for fat loss what is number one and I'll let you just kind of take it away what are your current recommendations you have really interesting stuff as it relates to the Allen Argonne method of determining sure yeah which is amazing which is I mean this is people can learn from you you've had a ton of experience and no matter how much someone reads there's something very critical about the experience yes yes yes um fat loss everybody wants to know how to lose weight yes fat loss fundamentally and and of course it's hard to kind of delve into the nuances and it's hard to not delve into the nuances without complicating the whole thing oh yes we'll start real big picture um fat loss is generally a matter of uh sustaining a caloric deficit so um burning more calories than you ingest over essentially the course of the day or maybe more practically over the course of the week because every day is going to be kind of different some days might be surpluses net some days might be net deficits but as long as you don't know is Alan was eating a large muffin when he was coming in here she's giving me away she's giving away the secrets gluten-free gluten-free this is uh yeah this is a bunch of the job um yes it's a matter of incurring a caloric deficit by the end of the week and that's the the trick for fat loss now a little uh wrinkle I want to throw in there in certain populations who have just begun their their journey into training and if they've got excess body fat at the start of the journey then there's a phenomenon called recomposition which we nickname recomp where fat loss and muscle gain can happen simultaneously and sometimes at the same rate to the degree that your body weight can stay the same for a period of time while you're just basically swapping away fat for an increase in muscle tissue and this usually happens like I said in novices and rank beginners with the excess body fat to give up people far from their potential for muscle gain and you know so this is really kind of a sedentary person who is untrained maybe they're walking but they're still overweight and not doing any kind of resistance or any kind of uh for practical purposes yes any kind of intensive training people who just start how much weight do you think someone could lose that's that's a difficult question right because it depends on how overweight they are um the practice guidelines that we issue just based on field observations and just based on what we see is realistic fat loss if you can set your goals to be one to two pounds a week which is aggressive yeah it can be very very aggressive yeah it's not easy I mean if you geez you know imagine losing 50 to 100 pounds a year that's what we're working what if you only had I don't know 15 pounds to lose yeah if you only had 15 pounds to lose then you're kind of looking at the lower end of that range so the people who have a degree of you know overweight or obesity then yeah two pounds a week you can gun for that right but as you start getting towards normal weight and certainly towards leanness that pound a week is really a challenge but that that is generally the range that we're looking at one to two pounds a week and how do how do you suggest people because you do coach people you still do you still coach you do you do you love that part I it's so challenging and um that's why I've gotten really picky with who I work with and who I can work with and because of all the other projects but yeah it's always going to keep me grounded and it's something I'm always going to do otherwise you kind of lose touch with the real world when you are starting people with a goal of fan boss yes you calculate their total calorie do yeah why don't you take me together this is kind of the epic part right all right so what you guys don't know is right before the podcast I asked Alan if you wanted coffee and boy did he want coffee I may or may not be saying he also wanted an extra shot in his coffee but that made me think of one of the sponsors of the show and what product I wanted to talk about today and that is actually something I use and it's called megawatt it is yes it is a pre-workout and yes I use pre-workout I think it is phenomenal it has a nootropic in it it has B vitamins it helps me stay focused and alert so I am not falling asleep talking to anyone it has also electrolytes in it you can get it at first form.com slash Dr Lyon it does have caffeine if you are sensitive to caffeine please check with your medical provider I love this through training I actually quite frankly love this in the afternoon when I have to perform mentally again you can go to firstform.com slash Dr Lyon and they offer free shipping us and also if you are military wherever you are mostly give this try let me know what you think many many many flavors like pink lemonade blue raspberry you won't be just so there's a number crunching side of things a theoretical hypothetical number crunching side of things and then there's kind of the reality so the reality is that if somebody wants to lose fat they are going to have a Target body weight or Target body composition we'll call it the target body weight that happens to be their goal body composition would that be a body fat percentage um or would that would be baked on in there okay like for example if somebody was let's say they were let's just pick round numbers if they were 200 pounds okay and they wanted to be 150 pounds got it okay great so their target body weight is 150 we already kind of baked in the calculations of what their current body fat percent is and what their goal body fat percent is and we determined that um okay if they kept their lean body mass or whatever it was and then bam their their target body weight is a is 150. while it's currently 200. so we look at that Target and we know that well that Target is 50 pounds less yeah than the current Target so we need to incur a caloric deficit in order to get there so every body weight is going to have a you know a Target body weight current body weight you're always going to design programs around what your physical activity level is going to be like because physical activity level is a huge part of energy expenditures so this whole recipe we're trying to cook up we're trying to cook up well how much calories maintains this target this target body weight like what is the what are the maintenance requirements of this theoretical 150 pound person that is 200 percent 200 pound person is trying to raise what are the maintenance calories of that goal body weight and at a given activity level so that's the process we project we say Okay realistically okay this person can hit 150 and realistically they're going to be uh doing you know X hours on average of training per week and then we also factor in non-exercise activity and so you're talking about um you're building out uh what it would take for this 200 pound individual to lose 50 pounds yep and we are saying we're figuring out their what are the maintenance needs of their future self what are the maintenance their future stuff I love how you said that and their activity which is which is really unique to you you kind of baked in a very unique formula yeah there's training physical activity and non-training physical activity and we have to factor those both both those things in because some people are going to work as you know servers uh some people are going to work busy busy moms some people are going to have jobs where they're on their feet some people are going to have jobs where they're just literally just seated at a cubicle what percentage does neat uh play into this kind of equation it it really varies um it can be as low as like 10 to 15 of of your energy expenditure all the way up to like 50-ish okay so it's just a huge range yes so we factor in that Target body weight what your exercise activity is going to be what your non-exercise activity is going to be and then what we have is this theoretical amount of calories that you're supposed to take in that will maintain this um Target body weight now this is a lot of number crunching and it's a pain in the butt so um I just uh my friend David Galvin shout out to David uh he developed a calculator that just does the whole dang thing and you just plug in uh you know what's your neat level how many hours on average per week do you train and what's your target body weight and there's steps to go over how to figure even how to figure out your target body weight cool so yeah there's a there's a free online calculator I saw that I may or may not have used it myself cool cool yeah it's actually really your book is really helpful so you then what happens you build out a nutrition plan and then also the training aspect what about the the training aspect because that seems to be really variable training hours are what we kind of bake into that at those Target calories and training hours are just like like training training not just so this is this actually brings a really good point brings up a really good point it's very subjective for people yeah have you noticed that when they'll say oh man I just worked really hard and you're thinking if you guys don't know uh Alan's very buff and you Michael brother you're not training Mark wait a minute do you guys okay it's just for your audience you guys realize how buff Gabrielle is all 115 pounds she's covered up but she's buff all right just just trust me so how do you work in uh you know those calculations of uh light exercise moderate intensity where how do you kind of uh interface that subjectivity yeah um it's just an average like ballpark figure okay and this is uh I have to emphasize the use of a calculator to find out what your Target body weight is and what your theoretical maintenance needs are of this target body weight and just running through formulas using calculators all of that stuff is mainly useful for people who don't know and just have really no clue of what their current maintenance needs are so if you have a grip on what amount of calories maintains you right now then do you know what your calorie maintenance is roughly 27 2800 that's pretty high pretty high yeah yeah yeah so you're the guy annoying guy who can do whatever they want that's why you're eating the muffin when you can yeah right um so that's how effective and then I want to get into like specifics in terms of how you prioritize macronutrients for for fat loss because again we're talking about fat loss and also when people lose weight it's not just only fat right it depends yeah and I think that people we have this idea that we are going to go on a weight loss plan and we're just going to lose body fat it doesn't always happen that way yeah so imagine that you do have a handle on what your current caloric needs are and you don't need to bother with um you know calculators because then you don't know it's important too and yeah and I also think it's important to have an idea of what your caloric needs are of your goal body weight it's significantly lower or significantly higher than it is now it's good to have those numbers floating around yeah because the alternative and Which is far too common for what you know practitioners do is that they just put somebody on if it's a woman put her on 1200 calories if it's a man put her on Fifth put him on 1500 calories if the goal is weight loss and that's that's very haphazard because at a certain point then the person encounters issues with plateaus and compliance and you know um it's a lot more haphazard way to go about it so if somebody has a goal of weight loss or fat loss yeah and they happen to know what maintains them right now in their current overweight or OB State then I would recommend just making sure that that protein is sound do you say protein sound what do you recommend I already know what you recommend but the listener uh yeah a very simple Benchmark would be around a gram per pound of Target body and that's especially important as you're reducing calories because you want to maintain that lean tissue right right and and some people don't make the distinction of you know Target body weight versus current body weight so if somebody is like 250 pounds right now and let's say they have they're obese um you may be over prescribing protein if you work on current body weight so you always want to operate on target body weight so right around a gram per pound of Target body weight and for those who are afraid of protein then you can go as low as uh 0.7 grams per pound of Target body body weight so that the protein range would be 0.7 to 1.0 grams of protein per pound of Target body weight and so you keep protein sound and then you impose a caloric deficit and so caloric deficits that the degree of aggressiveness really depends on how much body fat that you have to lose so somebody with a lot of body fat to lose can choose to set up an aggressive deficit as high as like 20 to 30 percent um down from what currently maintains 20 to 30 20 30 okay so that is aggressive on the high end yeah yeah um the kind of the General safe range would be 10 to 20 and it's interesting how the 10 to 20 uh range applies to so many things in nutrition it does so many it does it does and so I I I'll take the Liberty to kind of shoehorn that love it that uh that guideline into setting a deficit and even setting a surplus when we're talking about muscle gain but okay so 10 to 20 percent um off of what currently maintains and you would go 20 if you want to if you have more body body weight body fat to lose and then you'd go ten percent if you're just trying to kind of lose the last little bit because the leaner you are then the more careful you have to be with setting a core deficit because then your lean mask is more at risk right for for you getting rid of it yeah do you find that or have you found one working with people that there's almost like a stress response that the deficit that that hunger um I don't know whether it increases cortisol for them or again this may be a nebulous question but do you ever find that the it just really increases that individual stress and they're able to execute but it's perhaps maybe they're holding more water or it's not the way in which you had anticipated yeah everybody is so different in how they handle um caloric deficit assignments uh some people are just like robots and like machines and they just go for it and and some people have stronger emotional attachments to food and also amidst all this people have different perceptions and degrees of accuracy and uh what what they think is a certain amount of food or a certain calorie level it's a really important yeah to track if you don't know individuals should should track um I have tracked for a very long time my patients you better be tracking should track for a long time um interesting yeah people people highly differ from that and it usually is a stressful thing for people to um try to sustain a caloric deficit and so that's why it can become important to you know non-linearize the process with diet breaks or with just um examining the the goal for the person and looking at their their dieting weeks some people are okay with daily caloric restriction While others work better on a more non-linear type of model where some days they don't feel like they're dieting at all and so yeah there's different different ways to set that up and it all has to be individualized to the the person's goal and their preferences yeah I think that's really helpful for people to here yeah what is the next macronutrient after you've identified their protein is going to be 0.7 to 1 gram per pound of ideal body weight or set point body weight and I know your protein hierarchy where your your goal really is within that 24 hour period yeah um what is the max net the next macronutrient either carbo fat really um and it depends on how athletic and performance oriented the person's goal is that that determines what the next macronutrient we look at is so um competitively athletic folks need a certain minimum of carbohydrate in order to operate at a high level competitively yeah whereas if you're looking at the what level would you would you recommend I know the issn has put out some position statements on that what is your recommendation for um and we're not talking about weekend works we're talking about athletic performance yeah observationally and this is something that hasn't been rooted out systematically where we have these hard thresholds and stuff but just observationally across the range of competitive Sports whether it be from the strength oriented stuff all the way to the endurance oriented stuff the low end appears to be like three ish grams per kilogram of body weight which is like yeah one one and a half something like that grams per pound a body weight for carbs and interesting that's quite a bit more than Tito yeah yeah or a low carb diet three so it's three grams um at the minimum three grams per kilogram body weight so in pounds you know you're looking at about like half ish yeah that um okay yes so that's kind of the minimum right for athletic Pursuits I I found that to be true um personally I mean they should have a sport where it's speed diaper changing [Laughter] the Olympics I know kill it kill it be diaper changing the um three grams per kilogram per body weight is at the minimum for athletics yeah that would be the minimum for both athletic athletic performance as well as muscle hypertrophy you know we while we're on the three yeah let's do it so three grams per kilogram that would be sort of minimum for hypertrophy uh and as you care how you break that down in terms of pre-post workout glycogen completion I know that um there's a lot of discussion in the space whether it's a 24-hour yeah event not a 24-hour event but a 24-hour intake versus Post sports performance yeah that would mainly matter if we're looking at endurance competition so so endurance competition is this whole thing onto itself all the way like right here those crazy people that are running 100 miles now yes yes so I right and interesting there's a faction of folks who would argue that well the the current carbohydrate um recommendations are are unsupportably high okay yeah but but yeah that that bottom end that three grams per kilogram cut off that mainly applies to hypertrophy and strength goals all the way up to like the bottom end for endurance recommendations for high volume Endurance Sports is actually six grams per kilogram of body weight and how would you define um Endurance Sports so if the listener was like well I'm running a marathon does that mean that I need to double my carbohydrate intake basically yeah they do yeah okay yeah so six grams per kilogram for high volume endurance stuff and for anything from just strength Sports to mixed Sports mixed and team sports it's like three to six ish grams and some would say three to eight but once you start getting into like above six you're really looking at high volume endurance that's a lot type of uh yeah competitive endurance event too and when someone is trying to lose fat would you say that they should focus on either losing fat or performance and not that's the mix between the two yes yes and and it depends on the the individual and the situation but like if you don't have specific athletic performance goals if you're just a regular person living life and and maybe you have recreational uh performance goals for your weekend warrior game with with your or even if they're training what every day I mean I work out every day but I don't I just have body composition goals I don't I don't really care about my performance right right in that case if you don't have significant hypertrophy goals where your Prime goal is I want to put on some meat some bass yeah seriously uh go with your personal preference in terms of carbohydrate intake um practically speaking it's kind of impossible to go zero carb I mean you can you can but that's not sustainable the data doesn't support how sustainable that is I mean there's nothing against I I think that you and I can agree upon we don't care if someone goes no Carver or not but yeah in terms of sustainability sustainability practicality and it's yeah but like if if you don't have competitive athletic goals then it it really doesn't it really doesn't matter how low carb you want to go or how high carb you want to go as long as your protein is in that right Zone then you can gosh you can vacillate through the week you can go ketoing three days a week and then like yeah non-ketoing the other four if you want if you want to mix it up um you can go like pritikin that's an old one yes for sure so so yeah um for people who don't have those competitive goals and you just want to lose body fat you would recommend it doesn't matter you've got carbon fat doesn't freaking matter you want to go keto want to go deep Keto great fun you know do you with that but the person who's going non-keto is going to lose as much fat as you will as long as that person is sticking to their plan and their overall caloric targets and realistically it would be very difficult on a calorie deficit depending obviously to go high carb right depending I mean I'm sure that's high carb yeah usually there's numbers all across the board but if someone's on a 1500 calorie diet and then they need to meet their protein intake probably not going to be a relief not going to have a lot of carbs to work with anyway exactly exactly and do you have any preference on carbohydrate timing if someone is trying to lose weight my preference on carbohydrate timing outside of athleticles is whenever you want to eat your carbs period done as long as they're within as long as you you hit the target by the end of the day so is this where the concept of flexible dieting came up that came out you know we didn't even talk about that yet but I mean I'm sure these concepts are all I know because I've read it these are all Concepts within the book right right they're part of it and there's a whole conversation about the the anabolic window and and carb timing for growth and performance and stuff like that I mean there's a whole area of uh carb timing that applies to endurance performance uh there and there's a whole area of post-exercise carb timing that applies to endurance events that have multiple glycogen depleting events within a single day but if we're just and what would that be for the for the listener to understand like a multiple glycogen depleting yeah if we're talking about like Triathlon situations so we're talking about like you just ended um a swim and then you're going to get on get on a bike you know with it okay CrossFit is one of those mixed sports that has a lower carbohydrate requirement than just hardcore Ultra endurance stuff and Crossfit observationally does best with hypertrophy type carb intakes and so you're looking at anywhere from the three grams per kilogram amount all the way up to like six ish seven some would say eight but it's definitely in that mid zone for carbohydrate intake for CrossFit because it really is kind of a mix of uh yeah I've been really into that these days yes yes but for for fat loss um eat your carbs whenever the heck you want there's some really interesting um arguments going on with with carb timing with respect to fat loss and stuff but ultimately when you look at the body of evidence it just doesn't freaking matter enough when you eat your carbs in a day whether you front load your carbs in the day whether you back load your carbs in the day um there's research supporting like the these little nuances in both directions um there's the whole intermittent fasting uh thing where there's different models within that where people are pushing uh don't eat carbs after 6 p.m or oh we gotta wait till you eat carbs and none of that freaking matters right none of that none of it matters and you you eat the carbs when you want to eat the carbs and you structure your diet in such a way that you can actually adhere to it in the long term because ultimately at in the end what matters for fat loss is that you are sustaining this net caloric deficit by the end of each week and you're stringing a bunch of weeks together it doesn't matter whether you have your carbs pre-exercise during exercise post exercise in the morning or in the evening none of that kind of matters of course unless we're talking about athletic right and also I I think that knowing the individual's body response for example some people can have a little bit of carbs and then they're craving carbs the whole day yeah yeah very true right it really just depends on the person for example I tend to eat carbs later on the day in the day because I just prefer it that way if I have some bigger carbohydrate meal first thing I'm looking for I don't know who knows oatmeal or whatever I'm looking for so you know I think that knowing oneself is really beneficial um individualize it yes yes and I'm just curious in terms of meal threshold do you ever think about carbohydrates in terms of meal thresholds for example I mean this is typically what I do in my practice you know depending on um if the individual has a lot of weight to lose they do seem to really be carbohydrate addicted I try to minimize any kind of insulin response so I keep carbohydrates 40 grams or less per meal okay um have do you ever do any kind of meal thresholds yeah I I haven't personally had that Focus um however I do notice that some individuals would rather concentrate their carbs into a single meal versus spreading them out through each of the meals and in my personal observations um those individuals vary like some people will do great with unevenly spread distribution of carbs through the day and some will do great with just their carb bomb at dinner yeah so I think that that too varies and do you care what kind of carbohydrate they have do you care in general do people does have to be vegetables or fruits do you have a preference I have a preference for uh for carbohydrate and once again this is like general population um body composition goals which everybody wants body composition sure yes you know yes um I prefer that people go as whole and minimally refined as possible uh within reason and even that is kind of a nitpick um with people who have sort of low low targets with carbohydrate in the day like for example if they're shooting for um some Target of carbohydrate grams that are like 100 grams or less you know a few fruits and then you're already almost there you know yeah and so um but I would rather have people do the few fruits than just let's say something straight like chug down a Coke or something no you're not doing that yeah right so um but here's the interesting thing as much as I theoretically think that everybody should go with these uh wholesome carb sources like just try to keep it either whole fruit or potatoes or peas beans corn yam squash uh and then the fibrous vegetables rounding out the you know the rest of it when you look at the the longest living um countries in the world half the carb sources is coming from like rice or noodles which are basically refined right carbs and it's like okay well there's room for that stuff at least theoretically and also they're getting a lot of the other stuff right too they're consuming seafood and they're consuming of a bunch of other a bunch of other plant stuff and they've got these other um factors that contribute non-diet factors that contribute to good health so that it's confounded by those things as well who knows maybe maybe those countries those folks will live to like 150 if they only like they better have some good skin care if they only got their carb sources right not eat so much Rice and Noodles right so um so yeah I I always uh think it's a safe bet to push for whole and minimally refined sources of carbohydrate rather than the refined stuff but with respect to the refined stuff it all falls under a category of foods called discretionary calories or just the YOLO margin what is that is that a bro is that a bro statement yeah yeah so you only live once margin so um it's the 10 to 20 of your calories that are from kind of anything anything goes whether it's uh cook cookies uh cake fried foods deep fried foods alcohol all that stuff um crap junk what about fat how do you and you know I I don't want to miss the opportunity to talk to you about hypertrophy sure um because you have published quite a bit on that um so I do have questions I want to make sure that we touch on fat your perspective of that also your perspective of seed oils if you want to mention that yeah sure um and I mean there's so much to ask you artificial sweeteners but I do want to stick to fat and then I I definitely want to touch on hypertrophy and then of course training the training aspect everyone wants to know all about that cool let's do it yeah it's important to have your nutrition dialed in obviously it's also important to have your insides dialed in which is why I've partnered with inside tracker.com Dr Lyon the reason is is because you can do everything right on the outside but the only way you actually know if you're doing everything right on the outside is if you examine what's on the inside you can go to Insight tracker dot com slash Dr Lyon for 20 off their entire store if you want to know what your vitamin D levels are if you want to know what your insulin is your fasting blood glucose then this is the place to go and you can adjust accordingly it will even analyze your DNA and quite possibly you'll learn your true biological age you could add inner age 2.0 to any plan for a limited time only get 20 off the entire inside tracker store okay so in terms of hypertrophy so we talked about fat loss now we moved hypertrophy you mentioned that they figure out their Baseline caloric maintenance do they if they're looking for hypertrophy let's say for example someone is 200 pounds we'll take that 200 pound person and they want to have hyper they want to go through a hypertrophy phase but their goal weight is I don't know 170 pounds okay because would that be something that someone how would they go ahead and calculate that how do you have people Target hypertrophy just in general and calculations and matters if somebody is over a certain threshold I mean if somebody is on the higher end of over overweight or obesity um then it is possible for certain individuals to have hypertrophy goals or muscle gain goals within there but I think generally you you need to pick a focus you need to zero in on a goal um if your goal is to just get started and just get into better shape then you have to look at your hypertrophy at that point at that starting point as kind of a default of the program because if your primary goal was muscle hypertrophy then you would have to put the focus on that you know um it's just kind of kind of it works a lot better if you can zero in on a single goal now if somebody let's say they're obese they're straight off the couch yep and they just like oh man I have a lot of body fat and I have no muscle let's let's kind of get this thing rolling yes then they would have to accept the fact that okay well recomp is possible I'm just going to comply with the program and I will gain a certain amount of muscle but I won't necessarily be gaining muscle at the maximal rate and I just kind of have to accept that so yeah you you touched upon a population who it's sort of hard to right kind of manipulate and yeah and and sort of uh um focus on what exactly they want to accomplish because they will be recomping but now if we finally get them to intermediate status yeah what about an intermediate individual and how would you define a intermitting an intermediately trained person who now wants to build muscle sure okay so um somebody who's intermediate in terms of uh let's say body composition and training um uh intermediate they're they're not obese um they could be on sort of like the lower end of like over overweight or the crossing over into normal weight um and they've been training consistently for and we see your and then I then you can if it's been consistent and you can kind of call this person okay well you've been training a bit you're you're not a ranked newbie right and I hesitate to put timelines on stuff hard timelines I've talked to Brad about this Brad schoenfone He's like you know you can work with certain people and you work with them for for just a few months and they're at a more advanced training status than somebody who's been training for a full year so it's really kind of a an individual thing where some people just gain strength and adaptness my thinking it's just genetic unfortunately yeah it's the Injustice of biology yeah yeah I've seen those people they look at a weight and they just and they just jacked absolutely they haven't tried I mean maybe they were really well trained and then they perhaps haven't trained for a long time and then they just go and pick up a weight and it's just not even fair I I looked up Phil Heath's competitive history and that dude I think he won the Nationals within two years of like just serious consistent bodybuilding he freaking one won the national amazing he's amazing uh unbelievable yeah genetics is a real thing and yeah unfortunately unfortunately for nutrition for um a fit individual right so the I guess one question is how much muscle can someone put on an ear and is it different for male yeah yeah if we were to kind of boil it down to heuristics it's about one to two pounds per month which is a lot depending on whether you're kind of more of a newbie versus more of an intermediate so if you want to gained women yeah yeah I hate to I hate to say this and women hear this but um an intermediate male trainee can can gun for a pound of muscle a month uh an intermediate depend on age as well or not necessarily not necessarily okay yeah I mean there is some some uh drop off that happens as you get like towards 70 80 90-ish it'll always be a decade older than you are yeah pretty much yeah no matter where you are just you just push it off but yeah women gain muscle uh at most I mean they they usually gain about 30 percent at least 30 I want to say 50 percent at the rate that men do so is that hormonal you think or is it estrogen or is it fiber type capacity to lift heavy and not saying that women can't lift heavy but just pound per pound per pound their their net rate is lower because they tend to have a lower net amount of muscle mass and body mass but actually the rates proportionally are the same they're the same but just the the amount is like women are about 30 to 50 percent less so their rates are the same but but um uh proportionally the same but net is going to be lower so just to be on the safe side an intermediate male can gain a pound of muscle a month if he does everything right intermediate female half of that if she does everything right so if you project that over the course of a year you know you're looking at 12 pounds versus six pounds but that's still I mean you do everything everything right in two years you have 24 more times yeah is there a cap is that you know there's the the discussion of the fat three mass index is that where that plays and I know that the love for you to explain a little bit about what this is and the reason is is I'm very curious about what is someone's muscle potential we talk a lot about body fat and that's really the primary target and arguably because it does have health endpoints that are a problem you know depending on how much weight you have but what about that skeletal muscle mass and fat-free mass index yeah one thing that we can pretty much count on as far as muscular potential goes whatever your whatever the average adult muscle mass is average healthy adult the potential for that double right no not quite that would be that would be pretty cool but it's right around 25 ish percent beyond that if you do everything right in terms of nutrition and training so that would be yeah muscle mass 25 above and beyond that above and beyond the average the average for an untrained which is interesting as an untrained individual would essentially be a sedentary unhealthy model so again understanding that 25 25 more of that yeah and then it's it's a lot when you math it out it it's a lot so if you take um like for example you take the average adult male had 20 pounds of muscle on yeah that's intense yeah yeah do you think that there is ever a way you know there's this idea that some people are harking or some people there are different body types that plays a role into their muscular potential absolutely it does absolutely it does because people regulate um perturbations in energy balance differently uh some people uh for sure yes some people have a stronger homeostatic Drive meaning that their body is much more defensive um about preserving the status quo because um at a very kind of basic level the body doesn't know that we're trying to lose 10 pounds we're trying to gain 10 pounds anytime the body sees an imbalance in energy it senses a a basic threat to survival crazy and so all of the survival defenses switch on and so with some individuals who are trying to gain muscle and you're trying to feed them an extra 500 calories a day what can happen with a lot of guys or women who are hard Gainer types is they'll have a natural tendency to ramp up non-exercise activity yes or you know what we call neat or non-action non-exuality like they would be fidgeting or getting up and moving around that's right that's right just subconscious movement um in subconscious just muscular work even while even through the sleeping cycle so oh that's interesting yeah yeah I had no idea yep tossing and turning you know just muscle contraction and stuff so yeah there are certain individuals who are apparent hard gainers but what happens is they're non-exercise activity thermogenesis ramps up and swallows up that uh that caloric Surplus that you're trying to impose like that extra few hundred calories that you're trying to impose on them it gets swallowed up by their ramped up non-exercise activity which is like you said the fidgeting yeah the non-exercise movement what do people do how how would one overcome that eat more just get in touch with the two-handed diet man yeah yeah that's that's intense um for do you work with a lot of I get a lot of questions about menopause and perimenopause and by the way your wife who is just turned 50 yeah looks amazing thank you arguably she must be your longest uh client oh yeah yeah she calls herself yeah yeah she tries to give me more credit than I deserve so I'll take it that's fine fair enough fair enough do you find that women around menopause gain weight more um and if so why and you know it doesn't seem like it's that that has to happen I'm sure people ask you this all the time yeah yeah for sure for sure there are environmental forces at work that affect behavior and so in middle age there is the unique set of stressors that um prior like younger adults do not experience so there are work related stressors um that younger adults do not necessarily experience there are health related stressors coming from below and above so the people who have the toughest time um changing their body composition are middle-aged parents because they're dealing with environmental pressures from below from the kids and they're dealing with um other stressors coming from above with like aging and ailing parents and um it's very tough for people to navigate just a multitude of stressors stacked on one on top of the other you know the stereo typical wine mom you're absolutely right so what um I want to point out is that I didn't hear you say that you go through menopause and something metabolically happens yeah where you are destined so you navigated that beautifully and basically what you're saying in a lot of the data would support that um you know in randomized control trials that if diet lifestyle behaviors are accounted for again oftentimes women do lose muscle mass during that time whether it's a change in hormones and they're not keeping up with dietary protein or training but you know the idea that someone goes through menopause and has to put on weight there is that redistribution but yes you have not seen or read which are very well read that there is some metabolic derangement specifically yeah that we understand yet yeah the the gray area is the redistribution of the hormonally mediated redistribution of uh body fat accumulation and so they're in in some research would show a tendency towards more Central adiposity and I've seen that anecdote I've seen that anecdotally yeah I mean I've seen that in my practice um there there is that aspect and that is probably hormonally mediated but um that doesn't mean that this isn't something that can be minimized or even avoided to a degree depending on lifestyle depending on training um depending on diet and um a lot of this redistribution stuff it can come in the form of visceral fat it's not necessarily um stuff that you're doomed to experience and visceral fat is the fan around organ around the organs not subcutaneous such as the fat that you see yes that's right that's right and so a lot of these changes in in the middle aged um female body in the mid middle age female physique and body composition are due to Lifestyle factors are due to modifiable factors like you said a lot of people for whatever reason there's an increase in alcohol intake and how does that affect in terms of weight loss how have you seen it or what have you experienced in terms of the data how does that affect fat loss weight loss is it purely calories or it's calories um and it also individuals are affected differently by alcohol some for some people it spikes appetite well for most people it actually it gives people the munchies and um in certain social situations where there's alcohol involved and that will lower inhibitions and then you have a much less clear Judgment of what you want to plow through after you have the drinks in terms of the 2AM hot wings or not right right this makes sense yeah yeah and so there's a definite disinhibition phenomenon that goes on there that translates to how much you get in terms of food servings and what you reach for in terms of food servings so alcohol definitely affects that so that's it's a somewhat multifactorial what about the training influence on all this do do you do training programs for people or do you guide them what is I I usually Outsource them out to my colleagues same thing I have done it yes do you when someone asks you for a baseline recommendation do you give it to them do you say okay you should be uh our goal is fat loss I want you to be doing resistance training four or five days a week what do you do you give them summer it's um it depends on where the person is at in their training Journey so um rank beginners you have to just kind of start them where you meet them where they're at whatever they can do there's various programs that can be like a two days a week full body three days a week full body uh those are kind of the uh archetypical beginner type stuff and then the more intermediate stuff you start going into upper lower split taking four days a week uh and then as you get a bit more advanced then you can go push the legs take it twice through the week um or you can stick with the upper lower um taking four days a week and then add a day of specialization or two so lots of hypertrophy resistance do you have them do you always recommend if someone is and I I say this hesitantly to you weight loss resistant that they do high intensity type interval training yeah do you have them add that in if if they prefer that kind of thing and they're very time crunched and they are orthopedically ready for that and cardiac wise ready for that you prefer it cool great fine but um for most people it's good enough to get them to just walk more so it's not as difficult perhaps people are over complicating um the execution aspect of what they need to be doing yeah that's right that's right and with resistance training you have to assess the individual and see what it is that they actually like some people hate the idea of going to the gym and pushing and pulling up I still think they should do that machines if you guys hate it you should do it I mean you know I I love it but um some people hate it so just do calisthenics at the apartment you know go climb a rock somewhere or go go find some place really really move yeah right something that that you like that involves um some external loading whether even if it's your your own body weight which can be significant what about um how much fat so basically what you're saying is as long as it fits within your caloric goal whatever you have decided whether you're in a deficit or a surplus do you care what kind of fat they get there's lots of controversy yeah controversy especially seed oils went crazy yeah yeah yeah you know oh man yes yes um I was just on uh Max legavera's podcast I mean I love Max Max's awesome shout out to Max yeah hey Max we love you we love you Max uh and and a lot of the comments they're like you know Max you you need to you need to get uh Gabrielle in here to clear this clear this carbon fat thing up and so so hopefully you know you're not going to choke me out if I if I like say something wrong yeah what people have to understand is that I think um We're All in This Together yeah you know yeah for sure and we can always disagree too that's right and a lot of the things that people argue about online like the most passionately are over just sort of the icing on the cake I mean we agree on the cake and we're arguing over the ice it's so ridiculous sometimes we're even arguing over the sprinkles right so um so yeah yeah let's talk about fat um there is a seed oil situation that went in bananas and I think this is where people kind of kind of get it wrong they read a blog or they see a video where somebody says see well it's bad zeros are really bad um I got a comment somebody challenged me on the seed oil thing they're like Alan you know ER I hate you because you you you think that seed oils are okay to eat it but or you think that seed oil yeah pretty thick skin after all this I mean people are they are not so thick so I just I took the bait and I said well you did I did I took the bait and and I decided to dedicate like two days of arguing if need be just a long time oh you know I'm competitive in certain ways um so I said all right so let's let's let's take a look at this issue your first mistake is making the claim that seed oils are this single monolithic species when in fact there are many different types of seed oils and um they differ they have different health effects so which seed oil are you against and what health outcome do you think it adversely affects and at what dose and what research is there really important questions yep it's like what what research would you cite to support this and of course he didn't answer right because you can go down the list of seed oils and look at and see how they have different health effects and different contexts when people are railing against seed oils what they're really legitly um railing against are anything hydrogenated any vegetable but I think we all can agree on yeah hydrogenated right any oil any vegetable oil that's just repeatedly used for frying just over and over where you're creating these oxidation products that are going to negatively impact any number of Health parameters and so um you know all of those things yeah what would it be better if we use like coconut oil or olive oil you know for the high heat stuff the repeated frying stuff yeah I would but there's a logistical challenge right with greasy spoon restaurants they're not going to fry their fries and and you know olive oil or coconut oil are beefed aloe or something right so so yeah you you can ruin your health and all you do is eat deep fried foods that have been fried in in Sea Dogs but it seems as if there's uh this desire to pin all bad outcomes on these one things whether it's red meat whether it's seed oil and that is a huge oversight it is a huge oversight so we both agree that you're not going to want to eat food that's been fried over and over in in you know let's say soybean one right also probably tastes terrible yeah it probably tastes here yeah however drizzling um sesame seed oil over over your food which is what Haitians have been doing since the beginning of time that actually has shown positive health effects so what seed are we talking about yeah and what context are we talking about it it all matters it does yeah I would say that Don Layman also uh agrees with you if you said the exact same thing now I want to ask you a question which I think is my most exciting question I'm really hyping this up all right the people that I have found that are really innovators in their field are always reading and searching and they're typically 10 years ahead oh boy okay not to put the pressure on 10 years old yeah feel the pressure it's okay 10 years ahead of what is kind of coming out and I'm just curious so you put out this flexible dieting book which is phenomenal and I think you're gonna it is it's amazing and you put a lot of work into it and it's really well done and it's it's great to interface with whether they're a clinician or uh lay public you know person it's amazing my next question is what is on the Forefront for you in terms of what have you been thinking about maybe you haven't talked about I'll give you an example I'll give you an example um for myself I'm very curious about the gut microbiome and how is it possible that the body could generate its own amino acids and I think that that in the next 10 years we're going to find things out about essential amino acids we never we never could have been managed so I'm curious is there anything that you have been interested in that maybe you haven't really publicly talked about or things that piqued your interests yeah yeah um yes yes that it's not that exciting but I'm noticing that there are a lot more people in my age group who are stronger more vigorous and even more mentally Lucid than they were like 25 years back so um yeah and and so I'm interested in how can we preserve that uh through the life cycle how can how can we make tomorrow's 80 year olds be like today's 50 year old I think that's incredible so that that's kind of what what I'm very interested in because I don't see any really good reason to start feeling old at 50. 60. 70. I would agree with you do you know I'm going to train geriatrician did you know that I did a question amazing I didn't know that yeah I'm not surprised because like I looked up overachiever in the dictionary and then that was a picture of you like this right right there so yeah yeah I'm not surprised so that's really interesting and what have you seen or read see I knew it I knew it I'm telling you guys that the people that are at the top of their field are always thinking about the next thing I know it because it is there there's striking similarities by individuals that have been in their profession and are on a road to Mastery they're I'm telling you there are striking similarities um a lot of this is just motivated just by watching the years and the decades go by um I find myself saying a lot that I feel stronger more vigorous more functional now than I was 25 years ago when I was 25. and so and there's sort of this old school mentality that oh people start getting old at 40 you start declining at 40. and I personally didn't see that for myself even when I crossed over being 50. so there's a mindset component and also a lifestyle component that yes we don't know how to age right I mean and look and and I want to figure out what that is and I want to try to find out how we can just sort of push that that what do you think push that curve out a little bit do you have any initial thoughts on what that looks like yeah um I think that uh if you look at the way that sarcopenia happens um you can look at sort of three three components of it so there is a physical activity component or a disc use a muscular disuse component where it's literally they use it or lose it phenomenon like if you just immobilize a limb even just a single limb from two days of immobilization you can see muscle loss okay so um at muscular atrophy can happen at any age it's not a function of of a chronological age which is incredible for people to understand that sarcopenia a disease of muscle you know strength Mass function actually begins can begin in your 30s way earlier absolutely and and then there's the kind of the related phenomenon of dinopenia so where whereas sarcopenia would be more of the age related or the disuse related loss of muscle mass dinopenia would be the age-related loss of muscle strength so they kind of go hand in hand and there's a little bit of a debate amongst academics about what's what have we got to concentrate on more we've been focusing on sarcopenia so much that we've forgot about dynapinia so but it is a an issue of disuse so that's on on the one side and on the other side there is the contribution of sub-optimal protein intake on the development of uh sarcopenia and dinopenia so um there's disuse there's sub-optimal protein intake and then the third major contributor ironically is um just general over consumption combined with under training that will get people obese so um the accumulation of body fat at higher and unhealthy levels can contribute to the phenomenon of sarcopenia since obesity can inhibit muscle protein synthesis and sort of have this kind of bi-directional vicious cycle going so sarcopenic obesity sarcopenic obesity yeah so it appears that the the three-pronged approach to mitigating sarcopenia and dinopenia and all of the uh negative Health consequences related to that would kind of at a very simplistic level be let's get training right let's get protein right and let's get body composition like let's control excess accumulation of body fat so I think that there's a lot to kind of look at within those those three Avenues I completely completely agree with you good good yeah I'm in good hands good um Alan thank you so much for spending the time with me and sharing your knowledge we are going to link your book your research review your Instagram your website your Twitter am I missing anything your social security number your retinal scan I'm just kidding um thank you so much thank you it's been a pleasure thank you so much

Channel: Dr. Gabrielle Lyon

Views: 68,478

Keywords: weight loss, how to lose weight, how to lose fat without losing muscle, dr gabrielle lyon, dr gabrielle lyon show, dr gabrielle lyon diet

Id: bCjDzozb4iU

Length: 81min 56sec (4916 seconds)

Published: Thu Aug 18 2022