The Phil Donahue Show Gay Marriage Debate 1991

well you've seen them on television they were on everybody's evening news yesterday afternoon's news tonight tomorrow as well here are Craig Dean and Patrick Gill these young men want to get married and they're serious about it and have and legally you know went up to the Washington DC walked up to the little window or whatever you do in Washington DC and the woman didn't think did she she started filling this out didn't she yeah and you said oh wait a minute yeah I said you know look at the application and she could she had put Patrick's Patrick down as the female and I said I said no no Patrick's a man she said oh okay and and she said here you go pay $12 and I came back might roll bucks and she gave me the receipt and I said this is all too easy and I said you know maybe you should talk to supervisor about this since she said you think so and she'd I said yeah she said yeah and he came out he said mr. Dean crisis II in my office so we went back and we talked and he said I just don't know what to do a week later that they had decided to deny our application and a week after that we filed a lawsuit mm-hmm uh yeah married you know this is illegal in every state in the Union we are pretty consistent about not many things but about this one apparently we don't want no two guys getting married I wish you guys would get this straight I wouldn't say it's illegal do you see though it is this yeah tell about that now we got a leat we got we're a language there's nothing in the law is there this is it's not illegal it's just not not recognized and and it's not even in some states that is prohibited and I've really been Texas and New Hampshire T C specifically prohibits underage marriages bigamy and incestuous marriages yeah doesn't say anything as to what a so they only a man and a woman the right to say one needs to be a man or woman it doesn't see one say one can't be a man or a man a woman and a woman right now somebody's gonna kick this all the way upstairs wouldn't you agree I mean who's the lawyer are you both I'm an attorney you're the attorney come on you're going to the big guy so this a clam the big guys own one woman may I say yes completely Lisa what do you think it really all depends upon the Supreme Court it actually actually really depends upon how DC wishes to handle it yeah we have a new mayor in DC Maryland who is just sworn in on January Stein and she has gone on record saving and favoring the legalization of gay and lesbian marriages ten years ago she wrote legislation which would have legalized gay marriages and when her husband was on a DC council he introduced it the day after the primary I called her up on a radio talk show and I said you know you introduced this legislation where we filed a marriage license we were still exploring the idea and what chance of success we would have right and she said that she was still in favor of legalizing gay lesbian marriages that society is a changing place and something we should accept so on on your show Phil I like to ask the mayor to fulfill her campaign promise yeah and well welcome to public service mayor sharon pratt dixon she is true she is very much on record as in favor of gay rights and so three cheers and a standing O for this you know DC's a very dear mayor of Washington DC Mayor yes you were saying he seems a very favorable yeah positive stance I mean as well DC has a human rights act we hope it's too sweetly gentleman gets a whiff of this yeah Jesse Helms lives in the district air and Sue presumably in the area so does congressman dannemeyer and I hate mongers well you know not all gays many of whom are politically active support this effort as you know some Tom Stoddard frankly this is the wrong venue he tells out week the gay lesbian magazine anything that happens within the District of Columbia is subject to the special scrutiny of Congress and a lawsuit of this kind regardless the outcome amounts to an invitation to the Helms us and the Dana Myers to overturn it the outcome of their case could have an effect on everyone in the gay and lesbian community I wish they had coordinated better with the legal groups that work together on these issues all the time what's up here oh like a couple responses that first of all excuse me and there's always a danger that a suit of this kind will lead to bad precedent in the US Supreme Court well in other words if you get you you may be throwing yourself on the sword in the wrong arena and hurt others attempting to do the sets is nothing but bad case law at this point the only thing that we can do is either distinguish or set new precedent right second of all they argument that wish that gay people shouldn't assert their rights for fear that people are going to say something nasty about them it's not so much that I don't think that day that mischaracterizes his objection his objection is that you're standing up in the front of the people I mean Mapplethorpe couldn't get you know they had to pull it out at the corker Museum I mean this is Washington DC come on I mean there's somebody well he says we didn't get in contact with him ahead of time there little bit of touchy about that one we did you guess I saw this a couple of quacks yeah you think they can in fact I 5x I've asked their organization and lambdas you know it's a very good representation I don't help and they haven't even bothered responding to our letters I think I think there's a little bit of ego at play here you do that so the gay community first of all should be such does not march like wooden soldiers in their mouth and not more than any other Claudia okay this is is just I think a few leaders or heads of some gay legal organizations but we have a broad base to support gay communities where s roots queer nation has voted to support us other organizations in DC National Gay and Lesbian Task Forces has voiced voiced their support for us gay people that do if an objection say well we don't want our relationships to be exactly like heterosexual relationship so why should there be marriage well that's fine each each is own we want the option of jazzy or now you'd be free to do so let's talk about you for a second if you don't mind somebody's from Long Island which one you're from Long Island um and where were you raised in Virginia no New York as well a son raised in Queens wolf uh both of us go ahead you can laugh hey loosen up I said uh hey this is the New York audience isn't it come on Patrick Gill first-generation Irish Oh faith and begorrah may the Saints come down not too funny with mom and dad I bet this had to be rough not at all coming out to them in the first place was very very difficult um that was four years ago right after I met Craig and my brother and sister didn't know until really the last month or two but you know mom's mom and dad they can't deny that they love me they can tonight it under Sun they're not you know don't ever come see us again etc etc they love me for what I am they just don't like the fact that I've come out all over again a second coming out this publicity is yeah why does it have to be you and we've gotten that from both sides of our family what's your father's emotional condition now I mean know I ask this respectfully because you love your dad and you've already established he loves you so where are we are we have phoners or uh was there any kind of you're not a stranger are you no not at all we're constantly I guess you could say talking it's been very very strained we just have to just you know the two of us love each other and it's hard to see that being what he was brought up on that those religious things and every brother or uncles and cousins a priest son religious as an aunt who's a nun and there's you know religious of constantly what the family I was the nuns help bring us up since my aunt was a nun um I haven't really heard from anyone of anything from any of the nuns really I'd called England to tell my aunt she's very upset you know why does it have to be you you're breaking your parents heart but you know I'm not willing my dad is a very stubborn Irishman and so my and I'm not willing to sit back and you know let it stop here I want to go forward and live out the rest of my life as quality as I can and I think dad needs to see that I'm just as stubborn as he is I'm just as big mouth as he is and hot-tempered and I'm not willing to sit back and be treated like a second-class citizen any longer this is it and we're going over great your father's deceased I faith uh you you share you certainly shared with the producer of our show very poignant moment I guess it was been what five years ago since she told you did you came out five years ago with your family my father died five years ago I've been out to my family for about six years seven years I see and for the he won't throw you out right now didn't he when you first told his immediate reaction was one of anger and not knowing how to deal with it you know um he just just told me get out of the house and my I mean but my was I supposed to so I got a bag and pack my underwear and some clothes and and start a leave and my mother took me aside and she said no please wait till your father comes home you know and so I said okay mom I will for you and so he came home my mother said you know if he leaves I leave your mother said this to your father yeah and so my father turned to me and said okay you can stay until you find a place to live and we didn't talk for several days and one point several days later we bumped into each other in the hallway and he started crying and took me into his arms and just said I love you you know is that emotional breakthrough that allowed him to just get back on track to where he was my father was just a very very loving man when I had broke up with my first lover you know I was crying you know my father came into my room and he sat down on the bed with me and and like wiped the tear from my eye and he said you know I don't know exactly what you're experiencing but I can see that you're hurt and I want you to know that I still love you was this uh was this a second incident after his first weekly about year later uh-huh you're not the first son to make his father cry under these circumstances and this has to be considered for many many men how old was your father to turn he was about 55 ya see only honest response huh I mean you had to see that right yeah you know and just as I had such a hard time it took me many many years to deal with my own homosexuality and I didn't expect my parents to deal with it right away either yeah you know it took me a long coming-out process I mean there were times when I was in my early teens that I would actually curse God I think just faking it either way I tell you that they would rather not choose this lifestyle and none of us I don't think choose that it's natural to us no one wants to be you know berated the rest of their life they don't want their family to have such problems and all this kind of stuff we're not brought up to be gay you'll get a thrill out of making your father crying but what do you need what I what I realization I made was I need to be my own person I need to come out of the rags of fear that I was experiencing and the self-hatred I was experiencing in order to live a normal life yeah now just one more time before we break you are serious about this attempt to be married legally married because because the bottom line is Patrick and I love each other and we don't believe our love is a value less magnitude or importance than people and other committed stable long-term relationships feel we can get a holy union in in a church and a lot of gay people do that but you know why should we just have to stop at that we want to be able to file a joint tax return I want this man to be my next of kin rights a survivorship rights of will decide on all sorts of legal rights and protections that a married couple get that an unmarried couple can't and we believe we're entitled to it well we have other gay couples we want you to meet each of whom which bring to this dialogue different energies already you want to get in this thing I got this show that lasts an hour here you come now I feel a speech coming from you you want the marriage right how about the divorce right exactly look that's right here that's a right to I mean you have many gay and lesbian couples who are together for 10 and 15 years who break up and what happens to the property will you do that same thing when you fight for that divorce right also well that comes with the right to marry you I mean access why is that so you you look kind of like I got him now by the whole thing yeah you don't want to get married absolutely because I just don't think it's the right thing to do they love each other they're um they're on relationship they if they if why should have you know they wanted because of the leaves not natural yeah they want it because of the legal but you can love each other but why get married why why yeah so once the legal angle comes in they hold hands in public yeah sure they can do it why are you gonna tell me dance you know author in a dance for Glenn why can't they get married because they're not making baby and imaginary like it all in there I didn't hear what she said I didn't know she couldn't get married unless you're having baby disabled people and terribly people care people who choose your past menopause forget the Mary Mary [ __ ] y'all family right nothing I mean who needs a marriage if you got old ovaries isn't that what you're saying what you know what is they be allowed to adapt would they be allowed to adopt they hope so and and adoption has become rather adoption is an issue but at least in America gay people can still have children we have lesbian mothers do together in this lots of gay mothers has lots of lesbian gay and lesbian parents at this point in time and okay let me show you who's coming up here this is not the only gay couple in the world they would like you to know not only that you've already established that lots of gays have been married in religious services lots of gay couples married very thoughtfully sincerely and out of the closet religious marriages including this couple Rob Harris and rod Jackson and we will meet them in just a moment Hey here they are Raj accent Bob Paris I'll tell you what do you light up the room you guys all these women looked with enthusiasm oh no in my next life I'm gonna have a body like each of these guys here's rod Jackson international model and former social worker married Bob Paris in July of 1989 unitarian ceremony wooden church santa monica california people came in from all over the world to for this wedding Bob Paris is the former mr. America and mr. universe not an easy accomplishment this is a this is a very serious bodybuilder and obviously the other member of the wedding here came out to the media in an interview in iron man magazine how's that iron man magazine is the vehicle for Bob Paris and Raj axon both I believe you both discussed your relationship and coming out you tell us also or at least it was clear in the material that I reviewed everybody in your world knew you were together as a couple in any event if I was nothing surprising about the professional world no absolutely the only thing that took place in the Iron Man interview when we're rod 9 basically came out in the media was the acknowledgement of our relationship within the media in the sport of bodybuilding in rods career everyone newest as a couple and newest as a as a very loving couple and very committed to each other so we're not we're not surprised at all when wedding invitations were printed up there was no shock from people who knew us right uh fact we got pictures show let's just do a uh we should have done this for you we owe you guys some pictures here we didn't what do you want to start with sixty-two here are Robin Bob at their bachelor shower I'm not lying to you here's Bob echad next slide it was called bash for that very good here you are in your wedding day next slide let's move on here we got a lot to do here here you are there's the wedding cake uh here's your magazine cover I think I showed you that the next another one another one go ahead here you are with the pets you got a macaw cuckoo and all those other kinds of pets and here's your press photo all right how do we start here first of all don't call you lovers that's important point to us make your point about well I think that that the term lover is a very fine term but to a lot of people the term lover connotates a solely sexual relationship and we are married we're spouses we're married in our religion spiritually in our hearts and yeah you wouldn't call a married man and man and white no and we have we have several non gay couples who are married and they would be insulted if we said this is your friend yeah who's your lover or our friends all understand that and so I think it's just very important that we do live in a free society and we should have the choice and the terminologies that we use for our lives and we are very much spouses and we are very much in love so I think that we certainly have the right and we realize that our marriage isn't legal and that is why we are doing the things we were doing because there this country does effectively deny certain minorities of their civil rights I mean we act like there's just so many civil rights to go around that's not true we all inherently should have them according to the Constitution the United States part of it is at the community in your interview with out week magazine may I just share with this audience just one answer this I believe is rods answer part of it is that the community is afraid let's face it there's a small circle of people in the gay community who decide what the gay ideology is we've had it thrust down our throats by the straight world and it's being reinforced by the gay world and then you come forward to say we're the most diverse minority in the entire world we cross all lines why are we limiting ourselves from the diversity that everyone else enjoys we really are the most diverse minority in the lku I want to do a wipey let me get this in it's true we gay people right we gay people you say our own worst enemies we are asking for our rights shouldn't we be demanding our rights if every gay and lesbian came out of the closet sexuality prejudice would be moot until I do want to say something I say there's a small group of people they don't decide what people think but there are people during that time we were having trouble with the gay press wanting to depict us in a certain way and we were telling them if we wanted to be to be depicted in a certain way why would we have come out why would have we got married why would we put our careers on the line why would we taken the risk we did and we basically told everybody we did this for us we are not going to bath result bastardize ourselves from mainstream society and they're not about to do it for the gay community our lives to fit into a nice town today I want to present you hunk basically surfers think that the most important thing that began to happen with the media and I think we should we should I believe in minorities washing their dirty laundry inside the house and taking care of it themselves what would be the jury but no I'm saying though the problems that we need to work out with in the minority need to be worked out with in the minority have nothing to do with the prejudice and oppression coming from Maine so one things was just to separate us out as to as to separate people we had a lot of trouble getting respect for our relationships as as a couple and as a married couple Isis but in the last 18 months we have had 30,000 letters of support and majority them from the gay community so we definitely have that support out there you also have to make sure you don't get yourself without wanting to into for example a dirty magazine or a porn magazine we're very careful about you could be exploited in many or I assume without even I don't know we're kind of reclusive people anyway so we kind of are very careful about the press that we do to begin with and yeah I mean why should why should you have to write have an article that appears about the love of your life and here's the person that your heart goes out to every day and it appears next to a sex ad or for a sex toy and there's a lot of issues there I think the biggest thing early you're talking to Pat and Craig and you said well many people in the gay community say well we don't want to write to get married and they were right they said but if we fight for all the rights which we deserve that's what makes us Americans we get to choose which rights we exercise to make us individuals it should be no different because you're a gay person just because a person's bigoted does not mean they have the right to deny you your civil rights also I assume then you're Foursquare in favor of this legal effort I need to understand you're Foursquare in favor of Craig and Patrick's absolutely we didn't have the opportunity and they have the perfect opportunity in Washington DC to pursue this because in we were married in the state of California in the state of California to get a marriage license the wording is that it must be a man and a woman we talk on this issue we do college lectures and we do speak about this we are we are out there and you have something you brought up strong Tom Stoddard earlier who said that um it's the wrong venue you know anytime you don't have your civil rights what is the right venue yeah you didn't you return to serve I think talk about Rosa Parks not the right time Rosa don't sit in the back because I don't sit in the front it was actually the same thing and if Rosa would have never if she Rose would have never done that then well I would have you taken yeah but apparently there is a certain political segment of the gay community that sees the marriage issue is kind of a pugilist and I want to say too it's the right to get married there's only one of those rights we're fighting for the right to not get far from a job you do well just because you're gay the right to be able to walk down the street holding hands without having carload of teenagers come out with bats and kill you the right not to be to be called derogatory terms why is the f-word the only one that's socially acceptable in this country anymore the right not to have your head bashed in like a coconut and then have the police turn their backs on you and tell you and call you a [ __ ] and get out of the police station so the right variable right that's just one right we talked about but it's like we have to keep knocking on the door and and there are people to think that's that's not the most important right but why are they making decisions for everybody else let us make our own decisions and everyone in this country growing up during the Pledge of Allegiance set and liberty and justice for all it didn't say for everyone except gay people huh and I learned well I learned that the Declaration of Independence that very foundation of this nation the life liberty and the pursuit of happiness and this was guaranteed to every citizen although it wasn't guaranteed to every citizen at that time but slowly over time it became guaranteed to every citizen let me see if I hey we've got other people we want you to meet here this is war in peace in three and a half minutes there's a caller there are you there yes I have you'll be briefed I know you will yes I will go ahead all I wanted to say is that I'm a 24 year in a relationship now for four years with my mates and not everybody agrees with the fact that they marriage the waves stated right now is what fits our relationship so you're not so you're not so you don't care whether you're able to get married or not leave no I think that there should be some buzz and stated in New York State but I don't believe the ones that are existing right now are the ones that are better suited for us absolutely they're prejudicial and exclusive they exclude same-sex couples yeah I do I understand you call her you don't care whether you're allowed to get married or not is that your point no that's not what I'm saying I'm saying that the way the law is set up right now for for marriages it's not it's not intended for gays and we should have our own set of rules and regulation yes I see I'm glad you call go ahead I think the promiscuity the only thing that is discouraged I think relationships should be encouraged it up by all means especially today does anybody want to speak to this is it does the freedom to marry legally and with the respectful uh-huh would add up with that influence behavior I don't know and should they hate the influences in hook so we think we tell you how the Aymara influence non gay couples I mean how many really eat how many monogamous non gay couples do you know really if they were honest in their heart of hearts well I makes knowing it would make no difference versus why does gay people have a sense that test why should they have a separate thing in force upon them that non gay couples don't have to have why should we have to hurdle over a mile high hurdle to achieve what's guaranteed in our Constitution but is prejudicially and exclusively denied to it I think it will enforce gay relationships not in force but I think it will help gay relationship I mean we can see as gay people that and teenagers can see out there they don't have to kill themself there are valid gay relationships and that you can go so far as to get married and have a monogamous relationship with someone for the rest of your life yeah you know gay people don't have that right now they'd say the big become lovers and their call each other lovers but I mean even the back of their mind they know they can just walk out the door one day and you know I think that the point I think the really strong point here is why are we all considered why are we so concerned what's going on in everybody else's relationship why don't we worry about our own you know what what goes in my relationship is really none of your business and what goes on in your marriage Phil's none of my business okay I'd say that I'm talking about promiscuity you know gays and lesbians are sometimes stereotyped as being promiscuous yes but it's the irony and that is you know society denies us the very vehicles institutions which promotes abilities to stabilize our relation haven't every oppressed minority been painted as as wild animals as less than human s savages as yet as these Outsiders that we can embrace it goes I mean if we can go back to African American we can go back to Indian we can go back to any other oppressed minority blacks been oppressed for like the hundred year of the couple of hundred years but gays have been impressed for the beginning of time well let's look at that last morning I don't know whether it's you don't know if you get anywhere saying my you know my Holocaust is worse than your whole yeah it doesn't I think it's awful in any event no matter how long it's been gone and we wanted to exploit the trying to make but the most issue is about oppression yes bigotry of any form he is wrong are you there caller I'm glad you waited hey I'm here I think it's terrific I think there's so much hatred in the world if these people want to commit to each other and they want to get married they should have the same legal rights everyone else for more power to them we're glad you talked have you got have you got a brief comment go ahead I'm 17 and I'm gonna be going to college next year I'm really worried about the situation and I mean I've had so many things I've been sitting here waiting to talk and about civil rights and how minorities don't have enough other since the sixties with the Warren Court we have more civil rights than we have ever had and now that we have a conservative court I am hoping that this will be changed because I don't want to go to college and see my son's got AIDS see these people walking around I mean I I think I'm open minded slavery as well what is your point call yours you're 17 and you're going to college next year you say yeah I just you know what what should we do with the all these gay people I just I can't believe what they I don't know I disagree what they're doing and I disagree with the role models that they're portraying disagree with it well five-year-olds bachelor story now what kind of a role model are they for them is a freshman in college my sister's freshman college and you're going away to college next year these kids know well enough and they're told at school have safe sex you don't have to worry about AIDS if you're having safe sex I mean that should be straight across the board let's face it these days someone who still think she can get aids from a doorknob yeah can I bring up a point here too it's kind of a thing the caller's assuming that being gay it sounds like it might be a choice issue that's calling you to understand you are born gay this is who you are no more than she's born who she is and I might not like certain things about her but I'm not trying to press her it's no more chosen characteristic than my brown eyes are being left-handed or your blue eyes or gray hair exactly yeah if it's not a choice why do you bring this judgment to these people and we'll be back in just a moment Donoghue tickets caravan bc 30 Rockefeller Plaza New York New York one zero one one two remember postcards only please yes sir you wanted to say yes you you have rights born to just being Americans you have the right to do what you want to do in the privacy of your own home isn't this sort of taking it a little bit further to the nth degree being a horse actually actually it takes we don't have the right to do we want the privacy of our own home let's look to the hardwood case where and then was arrested in his own home for sodomy and convicted and sent to court now bring a point but sorry are you married is this your wife here no I ain't married though are you married no I am NOT I'm saying that eventually what we're saying is we're working very hard to build our life together why shouldn't why do we have to get to spend five thousand dollars in getting our legal work set up so if something happens in one of us some of the other family can shape the way we we have earned what we have together and we are each other's family but you can you can make that attorneys you know you're right attorney I would encourage these guys to come to me but know I'm taking a different route and saying I'm gonna try to assert my rights you know but the rights to married couples have are different from rights that unmarried couples can't have you can illegal little with wills and registration all that stuff especially yes the next of kin and take everything away step 5 guides have certain family could come in whisk out the body and your rod has no right to it you speak in legalese terms now but marriage is one of the highest social institutions in our land right and usual okay and but you as yet in our country in the land on this planet Earth have not been even begun to be accepted as a unit of social validity is that not right but you're not regularly you're jumping the gun you're just as you should open again you should they should not be set in such a hurry to get at their basic human rights the man isn't easy since you have those rights to tell illegal abortion work when a hurry early basic human right of life we can Twitter death before your black people started moving you know to the several way I mean I mean not sure don't rush this if you know what I mean I mean I don't mind but it's too fast did that was that was racial this is not based on animals between women in and versus procreation versus continuation of the skills how long do you think then I don't know how long should that I wouldn't venture personal opinion yeah if if you really wanted to make good case law went it'd have been smarter to let them process your forms instead of making the question at that point in here's where tonight no but he said specifically that he's like they could've Quebec where it's an eye-catcher you know they didn't make a question know that he's no receipt no more than I want me to be an actuality believe me this this form would not have gone past somebody's out basket you have your female Pig you know sometimes it's easier to just try to pass things through because the people who overlook forms in the back door what's around you what are the government you hear an absolutely notice of what we're doing yes I got lots of lots of energy here I don't understand why anybody cares if you want to get married they should be able to get married how does it affect anybody else's right I like to know if any of you have dated any women in the past and how you made the transformation to daily old man yeah I have I think we all go through a process of coming out knowledge in the innate your innate sexuality whatever that process may be yes I see a lot of what you're saying and I agree with a lot of things I know you want to start a family are you also looking into adopting kids and if so what kind of role model do you think you'll be for like a daughter growing up in today's society I would like to say we're thinking about starting an adoption process in the next two months and we have people I don't think sexuality should be determine what kind of role model you are I think your parental goodness and how well you do your job should determine how prepare your households there are single parents single set on this topic of adoption would you prefer a boy or a girl child whatever doesn't make like you know the woman gives me she doesn't know what she's gonna get we're happy with you there are so many children out there who are people consider unadoptable right now and you figured out a right to expand the pool of adopt adoptable Aaron do you think your child would be like ostracized by other children are you even worried about that actually no because we would be very onto the PTA and everything else and people that we know that have done that and are in the PTA the parents yes supportive it is it goes back to the classroom with the teachers teachers are protective and they educate the kids so that we're all growing up with an open mind yes someone talked about role models these beautiful boys they're gorgeous thank you Mary mom oh you miss out I make you but I really mean that that in the sense of role models you have your role models so what happened role models no I mean this is what they want they want to marry each other that's wonderful let them get married is this a market offer you they may raise kids as far as I'm concerned why not my mother raised two children all by herself and so there's nothing there's nothing wrong with us no there's not to shore points to make I think that people speak about homosexuality as if it's a minority group and I really don't think it is I think that if people just sort of open their eyes a little bit they'd noticed that some of their friends some of their family maybe the person that they're sitting next to are part of a you know gay lesbian organization practicing homosexual and I also think that people should stop worrying about other people's sexuality and start worrying about the person that they're I mean don't worry about the person's sexuality unless you're involved with them I don't think that it's important in absolutely statistics show that wanted for families she'll have to help a gay person in it yeah and we'll what briefly I got a prank the music says we're long yeah Craig wanna know if the ACLU was helping you at all or offered support or anything well that's a long but that might be a longer answer than we need but no actually I very requested their help and they have and so we've had to do is actually start our own legal defense fund and we'll be back in just a moment okay here we are a couple number three I could do this hi listen there Wow I could host a game show I'm good at this here we go todd bar sawyer and jonathan bar sawyer yes those are hyphenated last names and yes they are married what was the religion Unitarian Unitarian boy where would be without unity haha thank god god bless the unitary that's that let's see somebody's a flight attendant Todd yeah I'm a flight we won't say what airline but it is a major airline yeah is that I mean I know I make trouble said I don't know I work for US air well here we go no close-up on the watch is it on the watch yeah okay what's what's the deal here Jonathan you are self-employed you're an interior designer how long have you been married you two we got married in June of 1990 about six months ago and the thing that happened was I applied for spousal benefits at USA or for Jonathan for health and flight benefits and the company recognized us as a couple which was very surprising it the same way that uh Craig and Patrick were almost granted their marriage license and I made made sure I said you know I married a man I don't want this to be confusing to anyone and they recognized the relationship they pulled the flight benefits just before we were going on our honeymoon now flight benefits include a free tickets free tickets you pay some kind of a security charge and you go by airplane rights they've already charged every all plane attends get this that's right too bad they don't get more pay but then we stay get the hell that's another show yes we'll do that I've already done that Joe okay so hey you get your bleep tickets they pulled your free tickets from the honeymoon all right but it kept your benefits they kept the health and medical and dental and it was great you know that was he because he's married to you would get the benefits of your policy but I'd like to be with father knows best I'll be a self-employed it would cost it's an astronomical amount now they take what happened to that then well three weeks ago they took him off the insurance policy even after he's already been he had a hospital stay that there were medical benefits that were were incurred they were paid and so now we're working with the gay and lesbian advocates and defenders office to try to solve this and you still continue to work for us air that's correct and we presume you will even after mentioning the time on our program well that's so no I think you will too I mean I hope we're past this well know where you go boo and a lot of grown men we haven't actually filed a lawsuit yet not to say that it's not a possibility but we're trying to work within the internal appeals process at u.s. air in order to make reason with these people I mean they already recognized him once yo yeah you make their point this is you know that you know if you the next time somebody says why illegal marriage appears at least one very good answer mean okay I get to you in a moment I got all kinds of folks hanging are you there I'm glad you waited hi I'm a lesbian and I'm sorry and I want to say that my wife and I were married in holy union three weeks ago I'm glad you called you have our congratulations I'd ask you for your address but I pet her not with I hope you're registered at Bloomie's sir wherever you do that I'm glad you waited hi hi I'm a straight male and I married here in New York City and my wife and I have been bending theology for several years and it's the whole thing of matrimony being holy is such an important part of it and that love is holy their love is holy right connect solution right what's the whole point of matrimony is yes II and my wife and and our son is that holiness of love right oh gosh let's get married and the Catholic Church needs to recognize that too I know here here glad you waited hi go ahead I just like to say that I think this is wonderful I support these people 100% I myself am a flight attendant and a lot of like the majority of my co-workers on my crew they are gay and I know they're there their companions very well we hang out together and I just don't I don't understand how these people cannot be married it's it's just a piece of paper I think that if the love is real and they want to be together that it it's wonderful and I don't understand why this paper yes I'm glad you called would you mind tell us what airline you work for you don't have to I really wouldn't yeah okay alright everybody they call her you know everybody's in some kind of closet today what's going on here no let's see what she's talking about she knows gay people and they're real nice people what is yeah you know and in these ten who you are everybody knows gay a lot of people have problems with gays and don't know gay pride I agree I agree by the thing they grilled and we'll be back in Justin the equal marriage rights fund is a post office box 18 7:07 that 2001 Amazon mother Street Northwest Washington DC the zip is two zero zero three six here is the fund started by Craig and Patrick the couple from Washington DC who as you know have now begun the legal journey of legitimizing marriage between same-sex spouses legally hi hi all i say legitimize legally that's my way yeah I'd like to know how your friends react you know do they agree or disagree with your marriage counselor we well we uh we have a friend on her stood up in our wedding yeah okay yeah I've known Raj since I was in about sixth grade and it meant I he's a first gay person that I really knew personally too and it's done nothing I mean it kind of even made a relationship a little bit closer you understand each other they're your friend you accept it you accept everything more behind ya maybe self hey um I've been Patrick's friend since forever and first when I told I was because yeah shocking to me but I love him and he's most beautiful person I know and I just he's a person that's like the main thing and people forget and you have to remember that mm-hmm well we're glad you're here we're pleased to give you this opportunity and this woman wants yeah I'm glad to see them come out because I think we just don't understand it and the more you come out and talk to us and we understand it I think that helps and I think if that's what they want to do well do it yeah yeah I think that the what these people are doing is great because we were always taught that marriage is a union of two people and these are two people absolutely yes our gay marriage is legal in other countries Denmark since 1980 how can you pack in the parents of the the other side take possessions belonging to you - why is that against today and we'll be back in just a moment I'm sorry for a transcript of today's show send three dollars to Donahue transcript 267 Broadway New York New York 1007 we call - 1 - 2 - 7 re ad you should know don't forget Craig Dean and Patrick Hills lawsuit makes its way now it's a Tony Craig Dean lost his job with a rather medium-sized law firm in New York in Washington DC out of work Patrick here the Catholic what did you watch John Candy's breaking hearts see entertainment tonight at 6:30 now stay tuned for Sally next on Channel 8 but to live their night life not in sin they have to live a life of chastity and you think that's a lot of what Louie service invited and promotional fees paid by the following Ricola the natural choice for soothing sore throats and relieving coughs naturally new Dinah trim the delicious weight-loss plan complete with nutritional support from the makers of Centrum only Dinah trim lets 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Channel: Jay Roberts

Views: 130,918

Keywords: same sex marriage, The Phil Donahue Show (TV Program), Politics (TV Genre), Craig Dean, Bob Paris, gay, Patrick Gill, Rod Jackson, Debate (Quotation Subject), 1991

Id: cfXwwzg_Ntc

Length: 46min 3sec (2763 seconds)

Published: Wed Feb 25 2015

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[u/YorjYefferson]

I forget what I was searching on youtube last night when I ran across this, and I wound up watching the whole thing. It's so interesting to see how much the tide has turned in a relatively short period of time, I don't consider 1991 to be that long ago but that could be because I'm old enough to remember it as an adult.

This link has some more information about Craig Dean from the first couple; his partner Patrick Gill died in 1997.