The Mk8 VW GTI isn't as good as its predecessor. | Revelations with Jason Cammisa | Ep. 11

well first obviously i'd like to thank the academy but i really owe my success as an award-winning automotive journalist to being objective i think one of the key differentiators between me and other journalists is that i'm not married to one particular brand and furthermore objectivity and thus my authority comes from loving all cars equally right i mean anyone who owns a car that they're purporting to review the end of the day they're just completely full [Music] [Music] like all iconic nameplates each new generation of gti isn't just judged by its badge or against the golf that came before it instead it's often judged against a romanticized notion about what the nameplate means and so as a journalist the first thing i have to do is to disclose and then ignore the fact that i've bought two mark 7 volkswagens new and then i bought one for my mom and then i helped 28 of my friends buy golf's eagles gti's jettas and alltracks but whatever now that that's out of the way let's talk about what makes a gti any gti so special a gti is literally nothing more than a fast golf a golf has literally nothing more than a german economy hatchback what's made the gti so special in every generation since 1975 some better than others is that it combines sports car speed and fun with an interior far bigger and far more usable than any sports car [Music] almost as important gti's have always been classless you're just as likely to see one parked on the side of the road in a gritty neighborhood as you are in the garage of a multi-million dollar mansion they're unpretentious they're unassuming and for an enthusiast who has to choose one car there really is no better option a gti does more things better than any other car starting with the mark iv and under the tutelage of ferdinand pierce the same man responsible for the bugatti veyron the gti moved seriously up market the whole industry laughed when dr pierce said the mark iv golf would be better than a mercedes but dr pierce had the last laugh [Music] by the way mercedes delayed the w205c class by an entire year because as one engineer confessed to me they couldn't come close to the gulf's interior quality its overall nvh or its ride that golf was the mark 7 and it was the world's best 50 000 car it just happened to come standard with a 50 off coupon and the gti version well it was so grown up that it wasn't quite as fun as its predecessors but there was no better sporty car to live with every day and that brings us to the new mark viii and the first thing you notice of course is its styling or rather how much styling there is please reserve your judgment on this car until you see it in an urban setting because it actually looks pretty good in a city and that may be due in part to this new king's red paint which hides this weird eyeliner does anyone know why this is here can anyone tell me what this does is it underneath this is mostly the same car as before volkswagen's development budget wasn't big just 1.8 billion euro and much of that was spent on ways to reduce cost and build complexity the engine is the fourth generation of the ea triple eight two liter turbo four cylinder which was a clean sheet design that debuted halfway through the mark v you can actually see the cost cutting when you open this engine compartment there's no vw logo on the engine cover and that's a cost savings then volkswagen can use that same cover on a volkswagen an audi a porsche a seiyat a skoda and they didn't even bother putting a hard plastic glossy cover on it it's just a sound insulator and the ea 888 is still a cast iron block and though that seems ghetto it's actually not at least where noise vibration and harshness are concerned vw could save a couple of pounds by switching to aluminum but then would have to put that weight back in in sound deadening this may be one of the last cast iron four cylinders around but it's actually a good thing indeed this one is even more refined than the last triple eight and that's a hell of an accomplishment remember that engine was so refined that vw had to put a vibrator on the firewall which it called a sound actor just so you could hear the thing the only time you ever heard or felt the old engine was under 2000 rpm when it had a little bit of a diesel-like harshness that is now gone and the mark 8 is fast as hell this one is a eurospec early production car and it's a little laggier than the old engine the us gti is rated at the same 241 horsepower but don't be surprised if it's a little bit slower than the eurocar because u.s engines are typically tuned a little bit less aggressively because our fuel is for lack of a better word crap the mark 8 has the same computer controlled locking differential and transmissions a 7-speed dsg or this 6-speed manual and while you can turn off stability control on this euro car the computer will shut it all down if it feels axle hop or too much wheel spin this is very much unlike the dsg car which has programming to help put the power down without slowing you down as far as suspension tuning is concerned well it's a little early to tell because this is a european spec car with dynamic chassis control and aggressive tires and often ours are tuned very differently volkswagen says however they've completely eliminated understeer and i'm sorry that's just not the case you might have read elsewhere that this car is now assy and playful at the rear but that's because for whatever reason volkswagen put really aggressive rubber on the front of the test cars but not on the back if you have an evenly matched set of tires on this car it's a resolute understeerer i know i spent two full days on a racetrack and went through an entire set of tires you can watch that video here but more importantly not once did i ever have to add any opposite lock i'm not saying you can't get the gti sideways but i am saying it may take a set of cafeteria trays to do it anyway if the mark 8 sounds a lot like the mark 7 that's because it is at least until you get to the interior the cost cutting makes itself known here whereas the last gti had an interior that matched cars twice its price this one is fine there's lots of hard plastic and the black and red plait seats which were such a cool defining feature of the last few generations are now more gray than black and even before they get filthy look cheap they're still epically supportive and comfortable though a gti trademark since the mark ii so two was the golf ball shifter which has now been replaced by something that no longer comfortably fits a human hand and the entire user interface is brand new and that's where the problem begins volkswagen has gotten rid of every single physical button apparently completely unaware that every car company that's done this has had to put them back in for the next generation capacitive buttons while all the rage these days because they look modern and are cheap to produce suck you can't feel them because they're just a flat piece of plastic and so they use little vibrators to give you haptic feedback once you've hit a button the problem is that you can't tell where the button is until you've hit the button and so the heated steering wheel control which protrudes further towards you than any other control on the wheel is constantly and accidentally activated while you're driving and then it conveniently brings up a climate control menu where you can't control the heated steering wheel so the only way to turn it off is to press it three more times but you can't feel the haptic while you're driving so you have to look down for the control and then press it three more times going from high to medium to low to off looking for a tiny little display and then when you're done unclick the climate control menu that you didn't ask for in the first place this is made even worse because the five or so button presses you need to access this stuff is each met with a second or three of latency that's once the system is fully booted on a cold start first thing in the morning the whole thing takes so long to boot that for the first 10 or 15 or 30 seconds of driving you can do nothing which means if you left the ac blowing ice cold at you yesterday in the hot sun you can't stop it from trying to freeze you to death the next morning worse still the controls you use the most often temperature and audio volume aren't illuminated at all think about this for a second some brainiac at volkswagen decided you should be able to choose between 16 billion different interior illumination colors and they put puddle lights in the mirror that project a complicated pattern onto the puddle so complex you would never be able to see the puddle in the first place and then put 10 fog lights on the front of this car but didn't bother to illuminate the controls you use the most often [Music] um that person obviously didn't watch what happened to honda honda got crucified in customer satisfaction surveys for getting rid of its rotary volume control and after a couple years finally conceded that was a huge mistake honda is not alone in fact for half a decade now infotainment systems account for more problems than any other category according to jd power and it's not that they're just difficult to get used to as car companies often fire back at us quoting jd power again three years later customers are still frustrated with them worse yet the single most hated safety feature and the one that real world buyers turn off immediately is lane keeping assistant and guess what the gti turns its on every single time you start it so every time you drive this car you have to press this button click ok press the button again lest it swerve all over the road every time it sees a tar strip i was tempted to leave it on and let it swerve itself into a fire hydrant just out of spite unfortunately though while it has wireless charging the wireless charging tray has a cover over it that blocks gps signal so it would have fired the airbags and called 911 and sent the ambulance i don't know quarter mile in that direction if it seems like i've spent too much time on this i haven't user interface for ux is now the key differentiator between cars used to be you bought one car over another because of ride or handling or engine refinement or efficiency all that stuff has been evened out everything's the same these days ten years ago people were trading in their cars left and right just to get bluetooth and then it was nav and car play but i'm not talking about that these days every one of a car's functions including hvac and lighting is integrated into its infotainment ux and this ux is so bad that it makes you ask did anyone bother testing this in the real world [Music] and this is where the fanboy knife cuts both ways my favorite thing about the last gti is that every part of the car from the styling to the interior layout to the dash to the powertrain to everything was gimmick free form always followed function for the mark 8 well that changed the clean design gone the simple ux gone the packaging is there and it still hauls ass the fundamentals of that gti are just as good as every gti before it but unlike every previous gti that is irritating to interact with [Music] any incremental gains in performance have been offset by small setbacks and quality and a big swing and miss on the ux [Music] on the whole the mark 8 is still a gti but i would choose the last one and so would every mark 7 owner that i put in this car then again what would we know we're just a bunch of fanboys [Music] [Music] so [Music] [Music] okay so you're just gonna keep the ferrari framed out the entire time right yep okay action i'm not some rich youtuber asking you to like and subscribe hey up up up up up keep the ferrari out i'm an automotive journalist asking you to like and subscribe and that's because that's how youtube works if you don't click those buttons youtube doesn't know you liked what you've just seen and isn't going to show you any more of it and if you don't like what you've just seen well join the club and by that i mean the hagerty drivers club which gets you access to this award-winning magazine as well as discounts on amazing stuff and if if you still don't like what you've seen well then just leave a nasty comment because that's how the internet works i need to go clean that up

Channel: Hagerty

Views: 368,668

Rating: 4.9544706 out of 5

Keywords: Hagerty, Classic Car, Classic Cars, Hagerty Drivers Club, collector car, enthusiast car, collector cars, EA888, Instrumented test, Drag Race, Acceleration, Sound, EA888 Gen 4, Camissa, Camisa, Motor Trend, Scirocco, Cabriolet, Mk1 VW, Scirocco 16V, Toilet Paper, Piëch, Piech, Golf GTI, Volkswagon, Voltswagen, e-Golf, Jetta, Alltrak, Mk7.5, Cornflower blue, Kings red, Matchstick red, lane keep assist, heated steering wheel, infotainment, interior quality, plaid, Euro, 241 hp, Soundaktor

Id: XGbPHp6QfkQ

Length: 14min 47sec (887 seconds)

Published: Thu Aug 26 2021

Reddit Comments

[u/oumakavoula]

Jason's work is excellent

[u/veRxy]

At least here in europe VW tends to be a bit more expensive than other non-premium brands, yet their interior quality has been getting worse in recent years, while the competition keeps getting better.

[u/mr_duong567]

Another /u/Jasoncammisa video and another huge smile on my face

[u/lhturbo]

I fucking love Jason as a automotive reviewer. He has great complaints about this car, those buttons/haptics would drive me INSANE.

And hes right about the nannies that dont save your settings every start. That is so obnoxious, if people dont want lane assist, start/stop, and other features to be on, let THE OWNER make that decision and let us save it how we want it every start.

Hagerty is on fire lately with their videos!

[u/TheLordOfSweg]

Ah yes, the review I was waiting for. I was genuinely surprised by the savagegeese review and found it hard to believe the Mk8 car was that much better than the Mk7 in the dynamics category given they're so similar otherwise. This review brings things down to earth it seems. Also, I'm inclined to believe that a relatively small amount of simple aftermarket modifications (rear sway bar for example) would go a long way to make the Mk7 essentially the same car for all intents and purposes unless you're REALLY picking it apart dynamically.

I will say, as someone who currently has an APR stage 1 Mk7 with a set of PS4S, this Mk8 seems like a step back where it matters 90% of the time, and that's just being a frustration-free and enjoyable no-fuss daily. Most of the time I'm in my GTI, I'm not at the limits of grip, I'm bringing groceries home, and the interior ergonomics and user experience is going to be a lot more important to me than how many more tenths of a lateral G my car's chassis allows for over the prior generation car. Also, in my experience, being at the limits of grip with anything that's on a set of PS4S means you probably shouldn't be going as briskly as you're going on most public roads to begin with.

VW missed the mark here. Owning a 2 door Mk7 knowing they've were sent to the grave is just icing on the cake for me as an owner who might otherwise feel the itch for a new car at some point. It helps knowing if anything happens to mine, I can feel better about scooting myself into another Mk7 instead. At least I'll be able to parallel park my car without changing the volume and unknowingly toasting my hands at the same time.

[u/Trades46]

Firstly thank you to Jason and Hagerty media for putting out these high quality content on YT without any paywall.

Back to the mk8 GTI - VW really seems to have changed from the Piech era. Whereas the man would have shot down every cost cutting decision, now he's gone (RIP) it seems VW new management is now going full GM with the new Golf.

I also feel the mk8 Golf is just a braindrain as it seems VW sent most of its engineering team towards the new ID lineup of cars, along with majority of its budget. The feeling of the new Golf being an also ran is rampant on many other media outlets on the interwebs.

Honestly while I'm applauding VW group rapid strides in its electric technology and deployment, I'm far less sure about the cost cutting strategy which has historically been a hallmark of the German brand. Yes, they still have Audi and Porsche to cater to those who value material quality, but I can't help but feel disappointed by the new mk8 Golf in general.

[u/Big-Smoke99]

I'm glad that Jason isn't holding back against this car. I was even disappointed with SavageGeese's review in which Mark claimed that the mk8 is 65-75% better than the mk7.5. The combination of cost-cutting, overstyling, overcomplicating the UI, and cheating with tires for journalists is extremely off-putting.

[u/chiefsassy]

I just think the front is fucking ugly. Aesthetically a huge step down from the mk6 & 7

[u/wankthisway]

Lol did VW really put stick tires in the front but crappy ones in the back just got journalists? Come on. Also everything he said about the interior sounds infuriating. Fucking awful touch controls