The Last Of Us Episode 5 Aftershow

well hey there guys greetings and salutations and welcome back to the channel for this episode five of our The Last of Us season one open spoiler after show I'm of course your host John kavi I'm joined by Robert Meyer Burnett and uh you're talking about Last of Us episode five in case the title of the show does not give it all away I want to just give you guys a heads up that this will be an open spoiler discussion in the sense that we will talk about all the different details in the show so if you have not watched episode five although the episode came out on a special day now four days ago um you you probably would have watched it by now but just wanted to give you guys that heads up um look let's not waste any time and just get right to it another remarkable episode Rob uh for this show that has somehow found a way to raise the bar almost every single time out that that they uh that they've hit it with they find ways to make us feel warm and smile they find ways to terrify us they give us horrible visions of uh almost in a way of post-apocalyptic-like future while those are showing pockets of warmth in humanity that live within it and every time they beat us in the face emotionally um when it comes down to whether it's the end of and I'm not even sure which one was more emotionally wrecking the end of episode three or the end of episode five which even if you're somebody who knew the game uh hit everybody like a ton of a ton of bricks um so anyway let me go over to you on this here so what are some of the moments give me your general Impressions and some of the highlights for you of what was episode five well one of the things about the show that I find constantly surprising is how in terms of adaptation they Plus what's in the game and I think the the Kathleen character you know the Melanie lynskey character taking time to get to know her you know and you find out the whole backstory about what happened to her brother who was the resistance leader fighting against fedra and you find out what happened to her and and you find out after we know well what happened to Henry and and why there's this animosity between them and what he did and it's off camera we don't see it but we understand it we understand the pain that Melanie lynskey conveys to us about what happened to her and this is all stuff that's not in the game I mean the basically these Hunters were non-player characters and their adversaries for us to gun down or take care of or get past to get to the next game level but what Craig Mason has done and Neil druckman has done is is by necessity turn these into real people and not only real people but given them backstories and giving them histories and they have to convey them within an hour because this show is moving constantly forward they don't stick around in locations for a long period of time I mean they're out they're Joel and Ellie are out so the fact that they're able to elicit this kind of emotional engagement in every episode is a it's masterful storytelling and it's great great writing and they also do things like we talked about this yesterday on the show uh the adaptation element they added the fact that Sam is deaf you know and that was a really bright bright thing for them to do it was really good and what it did was it it created a connection between Sam and Henry that was even more than just brothers because you know it's one thing to intellectually understand what a brother is but to actually have a narrative storytelling advice that we can see and indeed hear that Henry has to be there to translate the the moment where the John Goetz character the doctor uh says to Henry that Sam is is scared you know you have to show him that you're not and I mean this kind of stuff dude this was not in the game and they've added all to this and and this is great narrative storytelling this is why this show is as special as it is because they've added all the stuff that doesn't take away from The Narrative of the game it just adds to what already was there and I'm astonished by how this show is going down I can't believe how every episode I'm as emotionally engaged as I am for for me one of the things that really stood out one of the reasons I loved the Last of Us story in general and I'm talking about the games yeah yeah and I'm not going to go into details about game two but one of the big themes that has carried through from the game to here is the theme of consequences right now for those people who've played the game and I won't give anything away here but Rob you're talking about how like the hunters there to us the NPCs they're just cannon fodder for us as players to go through and gun down stuff like that there's consequences to that it's something that the last of us too the game goes into a lot and again we won't go into that here but that theme of consequences they bring that into the show as well because we look at uh what was Melanie's character's name again the uh Kathleen with Kathleen that brilliant brilliant brilliant little speech she gave standing in her own bedroom talking to her lieutenant talking about first of all the humanizer they give us a a bigger picture of her and who and what she is she was a loving sister a loved sister she was a good person she was all these things and then something at the center of her life her brother was taken from her and the consequence of pain you know that's a that's a common theme throughout the show and throughout the story of Last of Us from the different Medias of the game the TV show whatever that pain changes people and we even see her almost in a subconscious way lamenting her own condition she goes you know my brother he told me to forgive I know he would want me to forgive him he told me to but I don't care right what like what what does forgiving people do right the woman who is standing there on that field talking to Henry and saying maybe your brother should be dead maybe that kid should be dead kids die like that's not the person that she was the person she was before brother I probably never would have said that in a million years but that's what pain does to people again something that carries over into the second game a lot but there was a another point of consequences in this we as the main player of a game we never think about all these individuals we gunned down and game the NPCs right and Last of Us takes advantage of that but there's another Trope in a lot of Storytelling TV shows and Movie that that hey we'll do anything for the ones we love right and that's nobilized and it should be I'm not saying it shouldn't be but that's Noble I said hey I'm willing to do whatever to protect my wife to protect my father protect my son to protect my brother right and they set that up in this show where hey Henry did what he had to do to protect the life of his little brother he was responsible for his brother and listen Kathleen made a point and saying okay you wanted to save your brother and I'm paraphrasing here but at what cost and it cost to other people because you saving your brother meant my brother died yeah and other people suffered because you put your brother first and again I'm not saying at all that Henry was wrong to do what he needed to do to protect his brother but I'm saying that the theme of consequences making choices like Henry made carried consequences to other people that got hurt or killed or lost their lives and I just the way the themes of that of consequence is being used in this show as well I think are deep and profound because they're not just thrilling it's like haha the bloater pulled off the guy's head it like after the show's done we are left to think and Ponder and that is the sign of a powerful show Rob John I have to say you're absolutely right about that and and either you know the death of Kathleen's brother might have hardened her heart to the point where we saw her execute a jail cell full of other collaborators yep and that collect that idea of collaborators being executed is part of her rage at what Henry has done yeah because that that he was a collaborator you know and that's and and Henry's actions inadvertently left the death of all those people how many people are in that cell 20 25 yeah they're all dead because of what Henry did and and the thing is what Henry did to save the life of Sam who wouldn't have done that for their kid you know and it's it's in this in in this civilization and this post-cordycep world uh I mean the the morality the moral ambiguities of all this is really they really and you know what he's amazing the way Mason's writing he's not beating you over the head with this you know he's allowing the audience to follow along themselves and and the way things are revealed these characters aren't necessarily being judged you know and even Henry comes out and says no I I'm a bad guy I did something bad I turned over the resistance leader the best man I've ever known best man I've ever known and when you hear him say that it's like my God that and that moral ambiguity is what makes this show I think so compelling by the way David D in the live chat brings up something I wanted to mention too which is the fact that we watched then the cycle of pain right because we saw we talked about Kathleen this is what happens to even the best of people when extreme pain is inflicted right it can change you but then there's a cycle of pain there's there's a there's a cycle of consequences because Henry making the choice that he made led to Kathleen Kathleen now being led by her blind rage and hate what ultimate did that lead to that ultimately leads to a whole nest of infested that now are running out and running towards Kansas yeah and so this one Domino I mean really you go back and forth to fedra and all that kind of stuff but this one Domino that that Henry's knocked off by allowing other people to die so he could save his brother led to this led to this led to this and now maybe they'll get around doing the show but maybe all of Kansas now dies and Falls because of this cycle of Pain by the way I have to say the Director of Photography tweeted out the where that conflict took place where all the infected came up out of the ground they built all that that was built on a flat plane in Canada and they built that entire neighborhood and Brilliant I mean brilliant art Direction brilliant yeah there you go um amazing just amazing look at those lights there's like Rihanna platforms hanging up in the sky I mean incredible um so yeah that was all great let's let's talk to there's some specific scenes that I just loved about this that I think Joel we're seeing the um evolution of Joel a bit because now that he has come into contact with Ellie we're not just seeing his responses to Le change we're seeing I think his now interactions in his relationship with Ellie are changing him because now he busts into that quote unquote Tower where the Sharpshooter was was killing everybody and like Joel of episode one Joel of episode two is kicking the door Bang instead he kicks in the door goes look we just want to get out of here and he sees the old man going for the guy he's like please don't please don't so they are very and like you said Mason and and drugman are not hitting you over the head with it like they could have a lesser show would have had Joel busting in that room going listen old man five five days ago I would have just shot you right here where you stand but blah blah blah blah blah no no they don't do that they let us see the audience figure it out but with the one word please please don't do that he doesn't want to kill people anymore and you know what they cut away and you hear The Gunshot in the distance yes they don't it's not I mean we know what's happening but it's not gratuitous like walking dead probably would have showed you showed him shoot him the guy in the head and I you don't need to do that because the important thing in that scene is not that Joel takes somebody out the important thing is that Joel gave that man a choice and he chose not to and that's a result of the evolution we're seeing we're seeing episode one showed us what Joel lost right of himself by losing his daughter and I feel like what we're starting to see is now with Ellie in his life he's starting to reclaim parts of his Humanity if you will now that Ellie's back and they're doing it in such a subtle beautiful organic kind of way I mean my God the Brilliance of the show it just keeps getting and then when it comes time for the action because you know some some people particularly the players of the game who are used to the last of us being 90 of running around shooting people which is understandable you know the one criticism of hey not a lot of infected or zombie action going on here what's going on well they addressed that because when that when that truck started falling into the ground like we all knew what was coming we instantly thought back to the oh they ran them all down into the tunnels you know we don't know where they are now well they're still down there and that the truck goes under and they come flooding out like the visual of that of all these inflected infected just full-on Olympic kind of sprinting flooding and pouring out of that hole in the ground and then of course this and then the bloater comes out and man when he grabs that the the actor who plays Tommy in the game I can't remember the the character's name now but when he grabs hand and chest unceremoniously pops his just pops his head off done it's like you know we're gonna see more of that there there's that's not the last uh bloater we're gonna see in this so that to me was a huge highlight and then Kathleen's just a very unceremoniously killed you know what's funny I think there's a bit of irony in the fact that she was just talking about hey hey kids die children die and even though Henry was just pleading with her just let the kids go and she goes no no I'm gonna we're gonna kill the kids too what takes her out a child clicker takes so I I think there was some some poetry in that no absolutely and and look again this show and I have to say I think my favorite the most chilling moment of the show was when poor Sam reveals he was actually bit bitten in that Skirmish you know asks her very matter of factly because these kids have lived in it they've known nothing but a cordycep world and says you know will I still be me on the inside yeah when somebody turns he thinks till them on the inside and like Sam wasn't stupid he knew what was happening yeah he knew I knew he was bit and he knew what that meant and that scene was so when when Henry had to shoot Sam out of necessity he couldn't believe what he did and the way that actor played it you know he couldn't well I like I told you yesterday I was sitting there I was so tense because he wouldn't put the gun down and he had it pointed at Joel and I'm like who knows they might do something different Joel might get shot and I was like in that moment I all my knowledge foreknowledge of the game went away I was so like on the edge of my seat in that scene it was so beautifully acted it was so tense and you're dealing with the death of a kid and you know that's going to happen and then Henry takes himself out and that I I it was just it was like I could hear a pin drop in my house I and I've heard some people in that scene you know when he he's uh revealing to Ellie that he's he's been bitten and all that kind of stuff I've heard some people criticize that come on nobody really thinks you'd be just rub your own blood on something that'll fix it Ellie's a kid right like in in Ellie's mind in that sense like she knows there's something special about her in her head it makes perfect sense just get some of my blood and rub it on your problem and and that'll probably fix you so like I get it yes a medically trained doctor in the room would have gone well that's not how this works but I mean she is a kid to her in her mind this makes perfect sense I'm gonna do this plus she hasn't been infected that long you know she's no one's ever done any real tests she was chained up on the wall yeah when we first met her and it was like maybe somebody will find out something she doesn't know she's giving it a it's a Hail Mary pass like I don't know if this is gonna work maybe it will that was probably the first time she ever even thought about doing that anyway and she tried it was a a kid and and I think that was like you said she was a kid trying to like I don't know if this is going to work but it's it's the one thing I can try why not you know I before we we move on to I want to go back something you were talking about earlier which was the the other collaborators that were being held in the cell right and yeah Kathleen goes down like some of you you turned in your neighbors for a little extra food well I mean saying just a little extra food sounds really tried but maybe for some people that was the difference between life and death and for their kids and for the kids for medicines for this for that again talking about consequences like you were acting on your behalf no matter who else it hurt but we as the audience we identify with that like because you pointed out who Among Us wouldn't you know do something drastic to take care of the people we love or whatever but we sometimes forget the again that starts a chain of dominoes to fall that are going to hurt other people maybe a lot worse than we are oh my God just the complexity and the depth and the the levels and the layers that druckman and Mason do at this show are absolutely incredible and then finally we gotta talk about the performances dude the like all of this is great but if the performances don't sell us on it if if Henry and Sam and the actress portray him don't make us believe it if we because you know I said in an earlier episode Rob that they're creating this world this is all great but but if um Peter Pascal um and uh Bella Ramsay don't sell us and convince us and make us believe in the bond that they're forming and the in the chemistry that they have then a lot of this great writing is going to go to waste it becomes spilled milk on the floor but across the board like Kathleen for like her oh my God this she like I said before just give Nick Offerman the Oscar for best guest appearance now the woman playing Kathleen who was also awesome in yellow jackets like her performance was staggering to me um and then of course just Pedro and Bella and it's like across the board it's just to say if you had to pick one performance in episode five that you said for you was the MVP performance of that one and that's a tough one to pick because it's filled with great ones which one would you go with I'm gonna go with Sam because he's not a talented actor I mean he's not he's not an experienced he's not experienced actor I thought he was a very talented actor and what he conveyed with his face you know and and on the the after show they showed the guy the director of uh ASL American Sign Language yeah worked with him and and I mean I I just was astonished because sometimes kid performances I mean look at Black Adam you know you they don't work they don't work as well as you want and and Sam had to be as Soulful as you could and without having without being able to speak even to be able to convey what he could convey with his face I mean the other actors are experienced I mean we know that Bell Ramsey Leanna more moderate character or not lyanna but the uh lyanna was in the Moon the Moon Moon Dome lady Mormon lady Mormon yeah that her we know she's good we know Pedro Pascal is a good actor um but to see a young boy starting out in his career be able to to convey that depth of feeling is impressive I would have said Bella Ramsey was my MVP of the episode for two things one the her interaction with Sam so great like was was so perfect that playful like she was herself just looking as a kid just looking for an excuse and a way to have fun the way she portrayed that and then at the end after Sam dies and they're burying them and just the way she moves now I so I want to say Bella Ramsey was the MVP but I'm gonna have to go with Lamar playing Henry that moment that he shoots Sam and you're right but even the moment before he shoots Sam right like he is absolutely this moment was some of the craziest three seconds of acting because he's like he is torn between there isn't infected in here attacking this kid but you want to harm my brother and he's like he's so conflicted in that moment and he portrays that conflict that internal conflict so perfectly and then he shoots him and he's like well what have I done and oh my God it was just it was so great so I'm gonna say for me the MVP you're going to go with Sam totally great pick I'm gonna go with Henry um just amazing and the fact that Peter Pascal and Bella Ramsey knew that in this this was an episode that those were the performances that needed to shine and they need needed to take on the role of supporting characters in a way yeah and that made it all work so good oh guys this episode so this show is so damn good um anyway uh listen we are now gonna spend the rest of our show doing the important work of taking your live comments and questions about what your thoughts theories and opinions of The Last of Us episode five things you're looking forward to moving down the road now before we get to those things though we want to take just a minute here and thank the sponsors of this episode our friends at betterhelp and manscape guys we want to take a second to thank a sponsor of this video better help when you're at your best you can do great things but sometimes life gets you bogged down and you may feel overwhelmed or like you're not showing up in the way that you know you can working with a therapist can help you get closer to the best 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Dragons campaign that would be pretty fun but all right what's next I pay money to see us play spin the bottle uh Richard says when Joel offers Henry to come to Wyoming you can see the sense of optimism in his face yeah I mean it's it the way they've painted the world it really heightens it when there are moments of hope I mean that's what made episode three so remarkable right like episode three was all based on what that what love can do in the world episode 5 is a great example of what hatred can do in the world and it's it's showing us both and so it gives us even in the in that episode like that moment of Hope is whose heart didn't smile when Joel says to Henry maybe you can come with us and and you you see like for the first time in maybe a long time for Henry an idea of hope that maybe there's a better future ahead and that was just taken away yes yeah I'm just gone all right what's next Cody hunt says uh life felt as precious as ever in this episode it makes you want to hug the people in your life and think about what you're willing to do to protect them well Cody that's that's the thing right it's like one of the The X Factor if you will the X factors we talk about the great Direction uh beautiful writing wonderful performances set design we can talk about all that stuff the the for me the X Factor of this show and I mentioned a little bit earlier is the fact that you know in a great episode of the Mandalorian is done I'm like whew that was fun big smile on my face and you know move on when the last of us when the credits roll and the episode ends I find it living in my head for at least a few hours if not for a few days thinking about the issues brought up the the the context and the scenarios and the situations and the philosophies and all that kind of stuff in the deeper meaning it just has a way of lingering with you you know what I mean to me that's that X Factor if you had to Define for you what maybe an X Factor of this show would be what would you say it might be you know to me the what I feel is The Melancholy of what's been lost about this like you really feel that Civilization unlike say you know when you're watching something like The Walking Dead it's very combative you're expecting a battle with the forces of evil all the time with this it's it's like the humans we've already lost in Walking Dead there's the idea that maybe civilization could come back not here for whatever reason there's this Melancholy work the end of the road that's hence the title The Last of Us and I feel that every episode even though they they end it usually in broad daylight with somebody walking off you know into the distance like this episode did where are they gonna go yeah there's nowhere to go there's no civilization that's being built up anywhere else the world's done and I love that I mean I don't know what that says about me but um all right let's keep going what's next Cody Cody hunt says um Ellie felt like such a big sister in this episode yeah she really felt like a kid again I loved seeing her and Sam's friendship develop throughout totally agree yeah because we we often forget because we've known Ellie for God when did The Game come out 2000 2013. was it that long yeah I think so yeah oh my God I was gonna say 16 but yeah probably right 2013. we've known Ellie for 10 years yeah in our head Canon she's like 24 years old it's right but we forget she's a kid a kid and has never known a world other than the one she's grown up in exactly and probably has had very few moments where she could just be a kid and that's why I love that scene when they go down underground and they find the daycare and like her and Sam just get to be kids yeah and because by doing that it also heightens the tragedy of the loss of Innocence yes like when when she realizes Sam is bitten and they and Sam turns and they have to shoot Sam and all that kind of stuff without showing us the Innocence we don't feel the loss of the Innocence nearly as much and they understand that it's like they set it up and then beat us over the head emotionally but it's it's been brilliant that way all right what's next uh Sam Fisher says oh wait hang on Cody hunt says do you think Joel knows that Ellie tried to heal Sam well I mean one of the things that we know is if you watch the next time on the Last of Us we see that that was clearly communicated to him right that you know she goes I tried to save him so that she reveals it to him in the next episode and that's when and then he says I'm pretty sure it's a little more complicated than that yeah like don't don't think your blood isn't isn't the the fix for this it's just that well you did probably it's a lot more complicated so I don't think he knows yet as in the end of episode five but clearly he will be made aware of it come the next episode yeah absolutely all right what's next uh Sam Fisher yeah Sam Fisher says I didn't care about Kathleen in episode four but in episode five she was terrifying especially in the opening scene it's amazing Rob what a difference our impression of a villain is once we understand their motivations right like seeing a random bad guy hey we're here to steal your Bounty like like these those are we see a million of those villains all the time right but once we start to once again once the show starts to humanize them once we start to understand them and understand what kind of brought them to that place and we start to get what their motivations is one of the big reasons I think Thanos became such a compelling villain in the MCU is not just that he's big and powerful and has a gauntlet it's like the universe is screwed I mean I I have to bring Brown balance the universe and especially in Infinity War when we get we get to understand that Thanos sees his own failure led to the destruction of his of his world that his world died because he wasn't able to bring balance to the universe right once all that once that bigger picture starts to get painted our impression of the villain becomes far more intense and I think that that one scene in the bedroom again I I think this is going to be a pivotal scene for the for the whole series really even though we're never going to see Kathleen again but that scene in the bedroom of of getting the background and really it's okay yeah we knew she lost her brother but now we understand what her brother meant and we we actually get to feel it right it makes her like you understand oh this person's been really wronged and is in ridiculous pain there ain't nothing she won't do and that makes them all the more scary I think totally agree it's such good writing all right what's next uh Sam Fisher says I could have watched a whole hour of Henry and Joel talking that's what's so compelling about the show that's how well written it is you're right the dialogue the straight up dialogue it's I remember you know one of my favorite movie scenes of the past is more than 10 years old now I think of the past like decade plus there's a scene in The King's Speech with Colin Firth and Casanova Frankenstein uh uh Jeffrey rush or Rush um Jeffrey Rush and him are sitting down in a room they just two of them they literally they're sitting around a small table and both of them are sitting in a chair on either sides and they just talk and I remember that scene to me is like one of my favorite scenes in the last whatever and it's there's no action there's no Dynamic there's no yelling and screaming it's just conversation it's dialogue and you're right there that's the thing about this show it can move us in a legit a lot of different ways but the dialogue is also so compelling that every time characters are talking it's deep and meaningful and whether it's carrying emotional weight or actual tactical information for the show itself it's like you never take your eyes off the screen no no and and for this show that's amazing it's a video game adaptation yeah you got to keep reminding yourself of that it's incredible all right what's next Jake says the way Joel simply says Ellie and inches towards her to comfort her after Sam's death shows just how close they've become with one simple word of dialogue yeah yeah and you know what we were talking about the evolution of Joel too I think in that moment he realizes the importance of that too and and listen to me too we see I think the real height of Ellie's pain when she's like that we got to get going let's go she's trying to just wall it off you're right and and uh to me that was so hard I mean first of all when the camera pans down to the little actually sketchy thing that was Sam's that's on the ground the camera Cuts back to it and they see that Ellie just wrote on it I'm sorry oh come on who who among you didn't break who Among Us did not like emotionally just have a little piece of our heart break and and not not for Sam we our hearts already broke a couple of minutes earlier now our heart's breaking for Ellie and oh God they just they hit it's like a good UFC fighter they don't hit you with one punch and back off it's like left and then right it's one then two then three and it's like oh my God they're just beating us down emotionally it's so good all right what's next so good uh Mike's movie Madness says I'm Amazed by the writing of this show there was so much subtext in Kathleen and Perry's conversation when Kathleen said she knew her brother was she knew her brother would want her to forgive Henry but she didn't care uh you could tell from Perry that that's why they chose her as their leader while even though he admired his philosophies he couldn't carry out the revolution Kathleen did and that's why he follows her that the line that he says in that when he says to her your brother was the greatest man we've we've known but you got us here yeah you got us here and there's something about that it may be that experience steeled her to be the one to do the things that in their minds needed to be done but again even the situation or the hunters in Kansas city is also a great example of pain and consequences right because fedra like you abuse people for so long that's going to create pain and pain changes people and that change brings consequences the consequences they overthrow them kill all them like that one scene of the flashback to the um to the liberation of Kansas and they're like literally shooting people laying on the ground and just being the most brutal horrific awful things but that's what pain did these are people who lived under that kind of pain for over a decade yeah close to two oh man and just uh and so that experience steeled her and that led to all them getting killed and anybody who collaborated with them and all that oh and then the cycle continues oh good oh so well done all right what's next uh justice sub 32 says no the bloater killed Tommy yeah of course of course the actor um is we've talked about this before is the guy who did the voice acting and I think the motion capture of well of Joel's brother Tommy in the video game so so cool to see him in there but yeah that was like boom just like no no two is about it no speculating I wonder if he lived for the next episode maybe nope just pop pop see this right off oh what a visual what a visual that was all right what's next uh Bert says uh kids die every day even though a true statement Kathleen's delivery of that line was both callous and chilling poetic she gets taken out by a kid oh I was just saying that yeah right um but no you're 100 right I mean we see the extent of which her Humanity was by the way Kathleen isn't somebody who turned evil her Humanity was stolen from her right we can't we can't forget that to fully understand Kathleen you have to understand that number one she was a victim right her Humanity was stolen from her by the person who was most important in her life wrongly and horribly taken from her and it Stripped Away her Humanity after that and to the point that you see an individual who stand there whatever I don't give an f kids die it's like just let the kids go no no no I'm not gonna do that no no they're they're gonna die too like her Humanity was gone and all that was left you see it in that speech Republic people say forget but what does that accomplish how's how do I get any justice out of that what do I get out of that nothing and that's all she had left all she had left was an empty hollow shell that had a Chasm that was filled with nothing but her remaining pain and rage and God that makes that compelling like oh anyway all right what's next sedu says the direction was incredible the choice to focus on Ellie's reaction instead of cutting to Black after the suicide made it more painful I love this show because here's again we often talk about what Lester's storytellers would have done yeah you could have very easily shown us the tragedy of what happens to Sam and then cut away right and that would have been perfectly normal perfectly acceptable as storytellers to do by lingering for just a bit we are not just now left with the tragedy of what happened to Sam it becomes the next chapter in the tragedy that's happening to Joel and Ellie this is yet the next level they were getting attacked they got attached to this kid and to Henry they found Kindred Spirits they found the yings to their Yang if you will right and so yes first and foremost it was a tragedy of salmon Henry but it just became the next chapter of tragedy in the story of Joel and Ellie too and again the idea of consequences that these actions are not self-contained and isolated there is a ripple effect that happens as a result that affects the people around it and and we see it here all right what's next uh justice sub 32 says I like that they changed Henry's reaction of shooting Sam you could see the emotions and thoughts that they were going through uh that were going through his hat after what he did it I mean again in a very short period of time we're talking seconds oh the actor needs to convey all this stuff that's going on in the character right and if you don't make us believe it it falls flat he may just believe it 100 like I said that scene was so tense for me oh watching and I'm just like oh my God because his performance the way the way he conveyed I mean that's a hard place to get to when you're acting not in a closed room he was brilliant yeah I'm so good what a performance all right what's next uh Lynn sends in a Super Chat and says when Joel was continuously shooting at the lookout to protect Ellie as she runs around the infected uh I loved it my favorite action scene of the series so far I mean yeah I mean first of all Jules juxtaposes against okay whoever's up in that Tower is a piss-poor shot I mean that's it right meanwhile he gets up there and has the rifle his hand and he's like nobody's a surgeon with a scalpel and he's taken and this is why it's important that they laid the groundwork early in the show this is a military vet he's not just some guy who just happens to be really good with the guy right this this is everything they do they have laid foundation groundwork for and then pay off for and that has been great so yeah I love that part that's great all right what's next but that part was also still tense yes it was just tense seeing Joel asking Henry to give him a gun I wouldn't be surprised if Joel had similar thoughts when losing Sarah listen I if you were somebody who didn't know the game or anything at that and suddenly this Sarah character who the first 20 minutes tend to convince you that this is the main character of this show yeah dies you absolutely would be forgiven if you thought well the dad's gonna take his own life and because it's dark and so you're absolutely right he he was somebody who could totally understand now he's not the one who shot his own daughter but he was the one he's the one who failed to protect her yeah and Henry I mean listen and they were together yeah you know and still the circumstances made it so even right then and there there's nothing he could have done no and listen Henry maybe Henry didn't kill Sam was gone by that point right right and I'm sure I I'm sure Joel wishes he he wanted to get that gun from Henry and and probably try to rationalize that with him but in that moment there's no rationalizing right he said um oh and so we actually saw what that was the thing too that they let Sam turn in that whole sequence because he had asked before is there anything left in me and you know yeah there isn't yeah and I'm kind of glad that they gave us that so it lessened to blow of his death because if there was a shred that this could be reversed it would be but there isn't that nope all right what's next uh Ryan lohner says or is Chuck no uh Chuck New 52 Ant-Man down to 55 phase five off to a in slow start uh yeah it is but we're we're here right now to talk about last of us but yes it is all right what's next um Ryan loner says Melanie lynskey has always been great yet seemingly normal people with a deep darkness in them going all the way back to Heavenly Creatures oh I forgot about Heavenly Creatures yeah she's so good Deborah she's so good and then again in the yellow jackets like there's a scene in yellow jackets that like made my jaw drop like she she comes across as this you're right she play she is the perfect actress to get to play the normal lady in the neighborhood right but I don't know if you watch yellow jackets or not okay I love it that scene with the rabbit oh yeah right yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that that was the scene for me oh man when you see all the stuff going on in the head right and that was the scene for me it's like this lady's a special actress yes like she's really good and and so you're 100 right 100 right about that all right what's next Ryan Lona says Ellie stop saying you'll stay awake you're not good at it oh yeah yeah she's but no no he just he just wanted her to stay awake with him right right like until he falls asleep sure he fell asleep but you know what the one scene there's a scene in there there's a shot in there there's a that's very much a cliche Trope like as soon as you see a character sitting with their back to the main character just looking up you know something's very very wrong right so we all knew that as Ellie was approaching him there that is going to discover but you know what it took away none of its effectiveness like even though we knew 100 that she was going to walk whether you played the game or not when she walked up to Sam was sitting there up on the bed with his back door as soon as she walked up to him we knew and oh oh I still carried that that was great oh so good all right what's next uh David D says don't blame Kathleen for refusing to forgive um Frozen was never made in her universe and she'd never learned to let it go let it go and by the way like we are going to remember too in that world we got a very close personal first-hand account about what happened to her brother because she told the story yeah we can only speculate about the hundreds or thousands of those similar stories she probably saw and like living under that for over a decade oh I can't even imagine man well and for her also any collaborator she might have gone easy but now all collaborators killed her brother exactly exactly every single when she looked in the faces of every single one of those people in that prison cell she all she saw was that person killed my brother that person killed him that's that's all she saw right or wrong that's all she saw all right which is great I mean great from a narrative yes uh Ren Davis says this was a case of efficient and economic storytelling not a single second was wasted to get you to care about Henry and Sam in a single episode it's true I mean you every single moment you love them more and more uh that's why this The Narrative the writing on the show there wasn't one moment wasted not one I mean everything that happened like you know what even freaked me out when they went underground and they're in the um the school you know how I said that there's that Melancholy and yeah that would that creeped me out man you know like where did those people go you know those people they had this they had this safe place to teach children they're not there anymore I I like the word they use efficiency yeah because I'm finding that's been the entire series yes every scene is used to convey something even just going down into into the preschool underground right we that was instant World building just seeing the room yes to us was World building then they compound that by using that scene to deepen the bonds between Ellie and Sam they then use that scene to give us backstory on Henry they all I mean every single scene every single shot every single exchange seems to be not just accomplishing something but accomplishing two three or four different things all at once every time and so by the time we get to the end of an episode that very well could have been three episodes of another show yes right because of how much they accomplished in it it's and you know what that is very much a Hallmark of Chernobyl going back to Mason's other work right like every single episode that I mean how many episodes was Chernobyl I want to say six yeah yeah I think it was six six seven something like that could have easily been a 15 episode thing because of the efficiency in which they used every scene to accomplish multiple tasks as storytellers and they brought that over to The Last of Us it might have been seven it was five I just checked there you go there you go all right what's next uh Hamid says or is that is Ren Davis the next oh Hamid no Hamid Hamid taking into Le uh taking into account less than great reviews for Ant-Man 3 is the movie in danger of major sorry we're gonna have to we're gonna have to move on guys we're here to talk about last of us today appreciate that but for we make very clear all the time for the after shows we're here to talk about the after show all right what's next uh Addison says I'm sorry that moment left me speechless I I again we had just been punched in the gut with the death of Sam and Henry right just brutally punched in the gut and then they followed it up with a surprise uppercut emotionally with the camera hard cuts to that thing on the ground and we just see the words I'm sorry you know what's so great about that is it speaks to I mean she this was what her whole state of mind is now and that was when she walked up then then you see them walking off I mean the what she feels the failure that she feels I mean they didn't have to leave us with that but they did yeah and that was powerful man all right what's next uh Michael Smith says favorite episode so far the game was epic storytelling but this shows on another level I know it's going to happen and I'm still surprised you know people get upset with me um when I mentioned that how do I put this storytelling in games is not on the same level of Storytelling in TV shows and movies and and this this is a great example because I believe the last of us is the greatest storytelling ever in video games right but this is this show is a great example of why you're spending 90 of your time in the games and this is totally appropriate because that's what games are for right games are for gameplay right you spend 90 of your time in the game you know running around shooting finding discovering stealing whatever you need to do in the game right this is real storytelling now right it's now taking all that and so when a lot of people I remember a lot of people said to me at first like you can't possibly do The Last of Us in one season you can actually because if you put in the hands of the right storytellers who know how to you know accentuate all the stuff and tell it in the right way and give it a proper flow and Pace that's why for just storytelling this medium will always be better than video games yes uh and games will always be far better at just to sit down have fun engagement for whatever hours they each do different things and that's why it's so rare that you can find a property an IP a story whatever you want to call it that can so beautifully do both mediums make such an excellent game really that makes such an excellent show it's it's very special very very special all right what's next uh Paul J Jepson says I'm pretty sure that Joel's hate and violence is bubbling underneath especially when someone he loves is in danger foreshadowing for the final episodes well I mean look there's it's it's not subtle like you just go back to I think it was was it the end of episode one or episode two when he beats the dude to death I think it's episode six right end of episode two end of episode one I think I'm getting the episodes already mixed up but like yeah listen they do a great job in episode no because episode one ends with us just seeing that Joel is now living there in that city right years so many years of passing he's taking the little boy's body and drops oh that's right you're right so it is episode so then we get an episode two and they had laid the groundwork that um the quote unquote mob boss is terrified of Joel like everybody knows Joel right you don't message Joel and then Joel will beat that literal literally be the guy to death with his fists but no no because that was the extended episode episode one is that it's episodes one and two put together it's the longer episode so it didn't end oh yeah I see what you're saying yes that's right because they combined the first stuff yeah there we go yeah I was like yeah so it was the first night of broadcasting but it was the two episodes yeah because that's the first episode supposed to end we dumped his body in the burner right all right but oh my God they've they've done that so well and yeah I mean and then they remind us again with him in in the in the tower just with extreme efficiency taking people out one shot at a time it was pretty impressive it was pretty good really good all right what's next uh Daniel vacura says it was Mason's idea to make Sam deaf and he talked about it uh the audition process on the podcast they weren't getting many so he asked on Twitter he expected 80 and only received five audition tapes I didn't hear that part because they do the plot the long audio podcast afterwards right oh yeah I didn't know that right five people sent in audition tapes well man they're lucky they got the right one they got the right one it doesn't matter how many as long as you get the right one and I think we can all agree they ended up landing on the right one so they got lucky that's pretty amazing I gotta here I didn't listen to this all right what's next uh Walter White Walker says I love uh love hate this was the antithesis of episode three yeah no I was just saying that right that in episode three we get to see in this world here's what love can do in episode three love can create a can create meaning and and and a place of hope and a place of joy and like all that kind of that's what love can do in this world now we jump to episode five here's what pain does to the world just a reminder and and it kind of reinforces what Joel has been saying in the show the scariest thing out there ain't the infected right people because we see with episode three what love can do but it's what pain does to people that makes them scary and yeah you're right it's a great juxtaposition all right what's next uh Louis mazur says why did the Kansas City Army block the highway off my guess is it's to listen their whole industry that that City's industry for survival was to get Travelers piracy passersby to go through the city where they can be ambushed murdered and had their resources taken that was their industry I mean we find out that it's an industry that even Joel was in one time Joel and Tommy they they were in that industry too for a little while it's like people doing what people need to do survive which we find out has consequences but yeah so that's why they blocked it off all right what's next Eric Miller says seeing how the fans react to Kathleen and her outlook on the world makes me very curious as to how they'll view Joel when all is said and done well we don't want to jump ahead for people who haven't played the game um but you know the last of us what I love about the ending of last of us and we won't talk about what the circumstances in particular I love it when stories Force us to debate Even in our own heads the actions of our protagonist it's like did they do the right thing did they do the wrong thing I often compare what Joel needs to do later in the season to Clint Eastwood in Million Dollar Baby right the character Clint Eastwood plays at the end of Million Dollar Baby has to make a choice and nothing says he made the right choice or the wrong choice he just made a choice and the choice Tommy era that Joel needs to make later in the season we will be coming back to revisit discussions about things Kathleen said to Henry uh again it's it's all tying together there's a lot of foreshadowing it's going to be very emotionally powerful and it's going to be something that will make us sit down and think about it for well until season two comes out to be honest all right what's next uh Eldon Goblin says SQL tried to bring consequences to killing NPCs they have names feelings friends Etc if you kill one others will react when you play as the other girl you actually you actually see these NPCs and go oh I killed those nice people that's one of the things I love about the second game why I think this the story of the second game even surpasses the story of the first game is that besides the fact of that big theme of here's what pain does to people the whole idea of consequences like we we are every time there's some guard standing in front of a door that you sneak up behind and just dab in the neck with a knife and then they're gone they're out of our thought out of sight out of mind we don't think about that NPC ever again that was the story of Last of Us reminds us somebody with a mother and a father and friends and a life and dreams and goals and to go back to Clint Eastwood again it's a hell of a thing killing a man you take away everything he's got and everything he's ever going to have and there will be consequences for that because there are going to be people every little NPC you knock off has people that are going to be real upset that that happened and uh and that's coming we'll talk about that more when we get closer to it all right what's next Daniel vacura says the sniper committing suicide by cop where Mason said it was an 80 year old man who probably lived a good life for the first 60 years until the last 20 made it more sad that was a good change I'm not quite sure well he's talking about the sniper that the sniper was an 80 year old yeah what was his name Anthony because he they Kathleen says his name over the radio and was like Anthony just keep him you know and it's I I it that's interesting that that he that's amazing said that because you know death by cop wanting the cops to kill you because you're too afraid to take your own life or whatever and yeah imagine the 20 years that poor old guy and the fact that he's just sitting there is a lookout in this lonely broken down decrepit house probably finding meaning yeah something yeah again that that whole scene was sad that like just please don't do it and uh I we just want to move on man let's just just give me your gun let us move on out of here oh it's so it's just tragic after tragedy after tragedy after tragedy all right what's next uh Matt Sanders says uh man Bella scream at the end when Henry took himself out that sent chills down my spine it was so quick too like because we're gonna we've we've sat on that thought about it replayed that scene in our heads a lot we're going to talk about it for days to come that scene's gonna live with us for a long time but you got to remember from Joel and Sam's perspective that whole Exchange took like six seconds right and think about this Henry six seconds ago was like man the world looks different now we're gonna go with you to Wyoming there's actually hope we're escaping the city I'm gonna be able to get my brother this like he is feeling better than he has felt in a long time one second passes and his zombified infected little brother is trying to kill Ellie and all of a sudden I gotta protect my brother no I'm gonna shoot you no way and and all of a sudden the world changed six seconds ago hopeful the world looks bright again six seconds later my little brother's dead the world life is meaningless now I mean I I can't I can't even imagine it like the way they did that was just so good all right what's next um Matt Sanders oh I got that one Yang Rodriguez says the use of practical sets makes this show amazing it is a beautiful combination of practical and visual and digital right yeah this is a show that has learned to go and understands practical effects are not better oh look at that that this Show's learned that practical effects are not better and digital effects are not better they each have their place when used right and this show has done a fantastic job of knowing when to walk when does a scene call for and a shot call for a practical effect to get its most Effectiveness and when does it call for a digital effect to make it most effective and they've done both with great Precision so good all right what's next uh Jacob Philo sends in a Super Chat uh just to be supportive and guys that'll do it for this installment of The Last of Us episode five open spoiler discussion thank you guys so much for coming along with us and talking about the show with us big special thank you to you guys who sent in those super chats number one because you gave us great fun interesting perspectives on this episode of The Last of Us but also you supported our Channel as you did it so thank you guys so much for that support don't forget guys we will be back again on Monday for the next installment of The Last of Us after show going to be talking about episode six uh it is now back to its regular release date on Sunday so we'll be back on Monday for that hope you guys can join us and hey while you're here watching this or listening to this podcast don't forget to come on by and join us for our daily two-hour live show talking about all the things we love about movies and movie news TV and streaming the John campus show every weekday at 10 30 a.m Los Angeles time we hope you guys will come by and join us for that so for myself Mr Robert Meyer Burnett we've had Taylor Gonzalez running the show back there my name is John campia thanks a lot for joining us guys and until next time bye-bye

Channel: John Campea

Views: 34,401

Keywords: The Last of Us, HBO Max, Pedro Pascal, Bella Ramsey, Neil Druckmann, Craig Mazin, Gabriel Luna, Sony, Naughty Dog, Playstation Productions, HBO, John Campea, tobeornottobethatisthequestion, Episode 5

Id: 7pCk8kZnQ6U

Length: 62min 18sec (3738 seconds)

Published: Tue Feb 14 2023