The Last of the President’s Men with Bob Woodward Alex Butterfield and Michael Bernstein --

good evening ladies and gentlemen my name is Brian Schott Lander I'm the Audrey Geisel university librarian here at UC San Diego and on behalf of the UC San Diego library and our partner university extensions Helen Edison lecture series I'm very pleased to welcome you to tonight's event it's nice to see such a full house I want to thank my extension colleague Stan Atkinson and Vice Chancellor Mary wall shock for their collegiality and their partnership and there are many efforts in putting on tonight's program tonight we're very fortunate indeed to have with us award-winning journalist and associate editor of The Washington Post Bob Woodward who joins us for his first West Coast appearance to discuss his new book the last of the president's men published in October by Simon & Schuster Bob will be available to sign the book after tonight's program and as you will have noted us on your way in University Bookstore staff are outside the room with copies of the book for those of you who don't yet have one and would like to buy one in order to get it memorialized by Bob and his co-conspirator unindicted Alex Butterfield dated Bob's first book on Watergate all the president's men co-authored with his fellow Post reporter Carl Bernstein was of course a national books a national bestseller and was followed by other books on Watergate but the number of topics that bob has covered over the almost 45 years he has been in the profession is truly astounding the Iraq war the Supreme Court the CIA the presidencies of Bill Clinton George W Bush and Barack Obama and that is a partial list I have no doubt whatsoever that he is all were already working on his next book and Bob were very honored to have you with us we were successful in bringing Bob here tonight because of one person and that's Alex Butterfield sitting to Bob's left it's Alex our friend who is the titular last of the president's men referenced in Bob's book which centers on Alex's experiences and observations while deputy chief of staff in the Nixon White House most of what alex shared with bob in the last the president's men had not been revealed in the many years following alex's fateful testimony to the Senate Watergate committee thank you Alex it's a fact we would not all be here tonight were it not for you and then finally moderating tonight's discussion between Bob and Alex will be Michael Bernstein professor of economics professor of history and senior vice president for academic affairs and provost at Tulane University an economic historian professor Bernstein took bachelor's master's and doctoral degrees in economics from Yale he is the author of two books one of which public purpose in the 20th in twentieth-century America published by Princeton was a finalist for the alice hansen jones prize of the economic history association he is the co-editor of two additional books and the associate editor of the third edition of the dictionary of american history the winner of the outstanding reference source of the Year award from the American Library Association prior to taking up his responsibilities at Tulane professor Bernstein served as dean of arts and humanities and professor of history here at UC San Diego where he served as one of Alex Butterfield's primary advisors I've learned from other from Alex's other graduate adviser historian Michael Parrish that the topic of Alex's dissertation interestingly enough is the history of presidential pardons in the 20th century I shall look forward to reading that book now please join me in welcoming Bob Woodward Alix Butterfield and Michael Bernstein thank you very much Brian and good evening everyone it's great pleasure to be here and before I get into some brief introductory remarks to start the conversation between our two distinguished guests let me express sincere thanks I know I speak for Bob and Alex as well to Brian Schott Lander the university librarian here at UCSD Shannon Bradley the director of public programming for UCSD television Dolores Davies the director of communications and engagement at UCSD and Dan Atkinson the director of public programs for UCSD extension without them none of this would have taken place so please join me in thank you all doctor I begin with the major expression of gratitude to our two guests and I'll start by giving thanks to Bob Woodward who is an icon to all of us who lived through the Watergate period but even to the youngsters in the room who didn't live through the Watergate period but have learned about it and know about its significance and impact in our nation thanks to Bob Woodward and of course to Carl Bernstein who know is not a relative of mine except to the extent that all Bernstein's are related in some way shape or form and of course great thanks to to Alex and I just like to say that I have always felt privileged and honored to to have been able to work with Alex's graduate student and also to count him as a friend someone once asked me years ago you know what is it like to supervise the work of a graduate student who won the Distinguished Flying Cross how do you do that and I think you do it very carefully alex has been a terrific comrade through all these years we're so fortunate to have both of these men with us tonight and obviously to speak of the Nixon presidency to speak of the Nixon era to speak of Richard Nixon himself is to call up some of the most compelling and major issues in contemporary American history and American life to start with the obvious the Vietnam War itself a war that cost 59 thousand casualties of American servicemen and women but close to four hundred and fifty thousand casualties among Vietcong and North Vietnamese regular troops over five hundred and eighty thousand civilian casualties that we can account for today odds are it's probably a much larger number than that clearly one of the bloodiest conflicts in our history and one that we know changed our nation not only was Richard Nixon the president as this conflict came to an end he was also the president as the United States first opened up relations with the People's Republic of China he was the president who pursued an aggressive deterrent strategy with respect to the People's Republic of China and with respect to the Soviet Union a strategy of mutually assured destruction which had the wonderful acronym of mad to frame the nuclear strategies and policies of our military a president who fashioned the so-called Southern Strategy in presidential politics to capture for the Republican Party the support of conservative whites in the southern states obviously an issue that resonates this very moment in the primary cycle now underway as we head toward the 2016 presidential canvass and of course the president who presided over one of the greatest crises and confidence with respect to the executive branch of our government in our history a crisis that completely trans formed the position of the presidency as an institution that changed the relationship of that institution to the American electorate and most compellingly as I'm sure we will discuss in the minutes ahead the relationship of that institution to the media and we're seated here on stage today one of the architects of the transformation of that relationship because the Nixon presidency for better or worse had worked to undermine the confidence that had once emerged between reporters and our president Bob's book the last of the president's men is a most interesting narrative about a man in Richard Nixon about one of his chief aides Alex Butterfield about this transformative era in our national life in Bob's words reading this book seen up close through Alex Butterfield sighs Nixon is both smaller and larger and I'm also struck by the words of a reviewer Michiko Kakutani of the New York Times who wrote about this book the granular details of this book slam home the mendacity the Machiavellian scheming and shameless lack of accountability that permeated the Nixon White House these and many other issues we will discuss in the next 50 minutes or so let me let me start our conversation first with you Bob and I asked this of most authors I have the chance to talk with about their work so you've produced this product for the prep for the public to to read what is it that you want your readers to take from reading this book well I think it starts with the idea that I'd done four books on Nixon and I thought I was done with him and then started talking to Alex and looking at the documents and the the truth for me is an author is that history is never over that you you think you have the answers you think that you know what really happened and then you run into somebody like Butterfield who has this incredible memory has never told his story four decades later and then squirreled away 20 boxes of documents the good number of them which had never seen the light of day and you go through this and you it takes you deeper into the answer the will net we're never going to get a final answer but it takes you closer to it who is Richard Nixon and you see in the story and the documents that the there were additional deceptions on the part of Nixon that we didn't know about and that he had this deep unending resentment toward people who were opponents and just could not let go and I think that what dramatized this for me the most was one memo that was in Alec's files it's called the zilch memo by myself and lots of people and this is early 1972 so Nixon had been in office three years it dropped ordered the dropping of about 2.9 million tons of bombs in Southeast Asia North Vietnam Laos Cambodia and the night of January 2nd 1972 he was interviewed by Dan Rather on CBS and the bombing had intensified and read the rest Nixon how is it doing and Nixon said it's very very effective in fact it's so effective I'm going to announce the withdrawal of more troops ground troops from Vietnam the very next day top secret memo in his own handwriting Nixon wrote to Henry Kissinger his national security adviser and said the bombing that we have done has achieved zilch it has been a failure let me just ask Alex I'm sure everyone in the room was wondering so why did you wait so long why did I wait so long I was well to write I'd like to think that the book could have been written just as well without terms like carted off and squirreled away but that's the author's right and he was the author and I was not this is called productive tension and we and we actually had a very good relationship all the way through plus I like your wife very much too and she was part of them she likes you a lot and I think the squirrel was a word that she gave me yeah always listen to your wife right Alex Alex maybe you know shift shift back to the beginning you the book opens talking about you know your your eagerness you know you're transitioning from your career in the Air Force and you're you know all of your combat missions in Vietnam and you connect with Bob Haldeman the chief of staff to President Nixon and you end up you end up as Haldeman x' deputy in the White House so you could share your initial impressions of this man Richard Nixon about whom Bob writes thanks to your document yeah I would like to say that my initial motive was to I had just heard in Australia I was good duty but not exciting and I was coming up for eligibility for Brigadier General and I had just heard just before the election of 68 that I was going to be extended for two more years in Australia and to me that was the that was devastating news and I thought if I'm to be noticed or be promoted below the zone or ahead of my contemporaries I have to either be in a very visible position in Washington or in combat and the country was at war in Vietnam and although I had been there earlier and flown submissions reconnaissance missions and actually commanded all the low and medium level reconnaissance activities there in Southeast Asia for two six-month periods that was then that was four or five years earlier and I wanted to get back in the worst way and that was I was going to use it Haldeman doesn't know it but I was going to try to use the this new team of Californians coming in to the White House for my own benefit it was the selfish thing I didn't want anyone to know and I wasn't going to tell Haldeman but if I could attach myself to this incoming thing and go to work for them perhaps in a year and who knew how long the war would last we assumed it would keep going for a while I could get back to Vietnam did just think of the issue because you call it yeah that's your term the smoked other words the action but just think of an alternative history if Nixon after elected had said to President Lyndon Johnson I just want one favor there's an Air Force colonel in Australia named Butterfield keep him there right without you and I mean this is what's always gravitated me to your story is your decision to disclose the taping system which really was Nixon's greatest secret and in the book we go through lots of discussions about how you did this and how careful you were you wanted to make sure you told the truth but you weren't going to be a whistleblower and you kept telling me you're not a whistleblower and literally that's true but this is an act that truly changed history because without the Nixon tapes he stays in office you think that's fair yeah yeah I think I think that's fair so Alex what do you feel fast forwarded to yeah we better to so Simmons brought up brought up the tape system so what's on your mind when you find out about the system you're part of the team that's going to implement it absolutely nothing I mean the fact that that Nixon was going to that was one of this thing installed no I didn't think much of it and I just called in the Secret Service it was my option to bring in the military but military guys get transferred and the Secret Service is a little more professional in doing something confidential so while I had my choice there and I was the liaison with the Secret Service so I brought them in and use the technical Security Division who sort of let me know right away that this was not new they had done this before they didn't say that in so many words but the intimation was yes we know how to do that this thing never works out very well they were sort of trying to let me know that they had had some experience with that and not good good experience but I said I don't know anything about this business I'm often given credit for being the security guy or something in the White House knowing all about tapes I don't know anything about tapes or taping equipment I just conveyed the order to the head of the technical security division of the Secret Service al Wong I worked with him you know once a week for three and a half years and he said yes we can do it and we can do it in a weekend any weekend the president has gone so they put it in I just didn't think it was and I didn't stop to think much about it I had other things going on and this is something Nixon wanted to do it wasn't that much of a surprise to me and it wasn't a surprise because it conformed with your other impressions of this very odd and strange person yes I did think that that there's the downside of that is if any diplomats the heads of government of state learned about this then that wouldn't be good for us that our they had been taped without their knowledge and our president's office but of course it wasn't just in the Oval Office it was in the Cabinet Room it was in the president's office across the street in the executive office building it was upstairs in the Lincoln sitting room and the residence it was later on put in the his office out in Camp David and so it was all over the place it was a very elaborate system and the unique feature was it was voice-activated other words only in the Oval Office yeah and but that was the key the voice activation I mean on the phones it was voice-activated too if you picked up the phone automatically recorded that's right that's true and so the Kennedy and Johnson had tapes but it always required them to flip a switch and say I want to tape this meeting Nixon wanted a full record which was extraordinary and Alex it I mean there were five microphones planted in Nixon's desk I mean if it you go to the Nixon Library and they have little doll's house make up mock-up of the Oval Office and they say push this button and you push the button and the Oval Office lights up like a Christmas tree because they had microphones and the chandeliers they had a Monday let me ask but let me ask both of you why then I mean the book gives this vivid portrayal of this incredibly resentful anxious paranoid introverted man who was always worried about his power and authority and what people thought of him why would he do something like this yeah but you know you didn't see that man on the daily basis he was calm you know always look the part measured everything he did he was such a disciplined guy you never saw him in these odd moments unless you were around all the time and then you might see one of these eruptions and it was you know some of these things that I mentioned to you odd situations that showed the real Nixon the fact that this was in him all the time sort of and he kept it contained because of his discipline you just with the White House staff did not know any of these things incidentally the White House staff didn't know Haldeman must have known him because he'd been around the man so much but he never did confide in me about them I had to learn about them for the second third and fourth year in the White House the first year wasn't quite around Nixon as often but at the end of the first year he and I traded offices and I was now working with the President on a minute-to-minute basis and I saw these things I couldn't believe some of them but what also is interesting is how lonely Nixon was don't you think I know he was lonely yeah you would be the one to see him first in the day and at the end of the day when he was in Washington and you described for me and this is in the book that after working in the Oval Office during the day he most often would walk over to his gob private office and tell what what Nixon I mean here's the president United States how he decides he wants to spend the evening yes if the daughters were coming over he would probably go back to the residence meeting the White House proper and have dinner with Pat and the girls and their husbands or Tricia wouldn't marry that there at first but Julie was married a month before the president became president she didn't want her wedding to be in the White House so she married David Eisenhower early but I'd say more than 50% of the time when he left the office usually around 7 710 Haldeman scampered home around 6 because I think his wife demanded that of him but 7 was was a normal leaving time and that's when he would leave the Oval Office and with his Secret Service detail across West executive Avenue into his very nice comfortable sort of library like a man's library in the executive office building only with this manservant manola sanchez and he'd have a glass of wine or maybe a scotch more often a glass of wine yellow pad sitting there never took his jacket off it says in the book he took his jacket off at 10:30 but I think I said you he went home around 10:30 he always he always had his jacket on and it just seemed odd and that's but then he had the yellow pad going or made phone calls and had the nola make dinner for him that long oh that's right and yes and he was a lonely person but I think he relished that I think he those monkey-like going over there so did this this issue of his solitude and his yeah his withdrawal so this is another part of the book that is so revelatory it's about the relationship with with Pat Nixon with it with his wife yeah and that you indeed were the sort of interlocutor there between the president and his yeah spouse yeah that way I think they didn't talk incidentally Bob will vouch for me here I didn't it's not fun to talk about that I liked the president I liked him a lot you know once he got to like me I reciprocated I like the hell out of him if we're going to like me and then he put me on to the I had the Pat duty which his Haldeman says in the book and he had tried and he didn't last very long because he always took the president's position and didn't seem to show much understanding with that and later Dwight Chapin was given that Duty and he'd lasted less than less time than than Haldeman well I was the new guy so they thought maybe you know if she I won't be that affected by taking the president's position and I did enjoy working with her and she's a wonderful person and very down-to-earth and I met with her at least twice a week usually for about an hour hour and a half over and her little living room outside of her bedroom and Seamus says she had a lonely life tell this story when they're you're on the helicopter with them going up and she proposes they should go cheap at Nixon said to Dick's dick let's go spend some of the Christmas holidays in New York City yeah that's right and on the chopper my position was sitting right across from them they're sitting facing each other a nice big comfortable seats and either Haldeman or I set right across the aisle so close to him the doctor and the Secret Service and the military aides are in the back part of the of the helicopter and she said just that Oh dick let's go up to New York could bring the girls it's Christmas chestnuts roasting on the corner all that sort of thing and we could have some fun and you could relax and he's writing in the yellow pad and he didn't answer her and you no one wants to say answer her goddammit I mean that's the way I felt that's the way but you know you don't say that but that's what I was thinking and she we were on a couple of times yeah let's let's we'll go see a play New York is funding they never did he never never never he had looked up no I never looked up and that that's hurtful and she had to be embarrassed she knew that I was witnessing this sort of thing so these things hurt yeah painful so this again all of this part of a portrait that the book that the book sort of completes in a way I mean obviously it's been an enormous amount written about Richard Nixon but in certain very intimate ways this book acquaints us with this you know very strange and odd man whom you served for several years who you know as we noted at the start of our conversation I mean he played a crucial role in political change in our country I mean even independent of the Watergate crisis just thinking of Vietnam China you know and a lot of domestic policy initiatives he led mm-hmm know what does that say to us about our images of you know our presidents as leaders and as a change agents and then as individuals we hardly know at all yeah well Bob there's a theory on that and I guess you're right about the way you feel we don't it's almost impossible I think to vet our presidents much more than we do and Bob does say that that's the job of the press to do that would we have elected Richard Nixon if we had known that he was so petty not the self assorted about enemies real or perceived threat that was the the difficulty and I'm sorry you didn't want me to finish about this ilke memo but I'm going to if that's okay because if it really is important uh I was in the Navy during the Vietnam War and there is an unspoken unsigned contract between everyone in the military and the commander-in-chief and that is you do your job I was on a ship off the coast of Vietnam and the commander-in-chief's going to do his job and in this memo you find Nixon saying that they dropped all the this tonnage of bombs killed hundreds of thousands of people and uh in his assessment achieved zilch and it was a failure and if you connect all the dots with the tapes and other documents you discovered that Nixon was fighting this war in 72 and dropping all of these bombs because it was popular and he's there with Kissinger he says oh look at the latest poll everyone loves the bombs that were dropping two to one two and a half to one and at the moment which is May 8 1972 when Nixon orders the mining of Haiphong and the most intensive bombing of the north Kissinger literally says to the president that it was on May 8 that you won election not the war but election and if there is a corruption that is almost unfair is unforgivable it is for the commander-in-chief to conduct a war with his political interest in mine now there's always for the popularity poll yeah if there's always an element of that of course but in this case in his own language and we now look at the Vietnam War bombing studies and Nixon was right he realized it wasn't working and he continued it in the year 70 1972 dropping 1.1 million additional tons of bombs and for me it's the other side of Watergate Watergate was we're going to spy and sabotage and break the law to ensure that the Democrats nominate the weakest candidate so Nixon can be reelected and the other side is we're going to continue the war in this very aggressive way because it's popular and it will help Richard Nixon win re-election and but let me say there he knew he was going to win reelection we knew we were going to win reelection but not I wanted to break a record yes but nothing but that is not until near the end of 72 in the beginning of 72 is the record and the tapes show Nixon was deeply worried that the Democrats were going to nominate senator muskie who was opposed to the war who would have been the strongest candidate and so they declared this war of sabotage and spine largely on muskie and other Democrats and so they weren't sure they were going to win at the end yes the polls and the fact that McGovern was but you know and in this adds to and this is why I thank you if I may for having the guts to tell the story of what happened what you observed to share the documents because it takes us to that question who was Richard Nixon and we know a lot more because of that and I think deeply about we're going to elect a new president next Jiro's going to have lots of troubles and we better a lot of trouble to deal with and we better know who that person is and we better not be surprised in this book and your story is about Nixon but it's larger I think it's it's a warning about in a certain way about we better and this is the job of the press find out about who these people are in depth so we are not surprised again so Alex let's see you know as bob says you know you've you made several you took several courageous steps both recently and decades ago to ensure that the American people would know a great deal more about Richard Nixon and what happened in the Nixon White House so let's talk about the tapes and you know faithful decisions made about knowledge about those tapes when the Watergate break ins occurred and then of course as the you know as the press led by distinguished company right up here on this stage started to pose more and more questions about what happened in the London common were you thinking about the tapes really anticipating that this might well we didn't measure them into a huge oh yes of course I was yeah I was thinking about the tapes when I was in the Oval Office and Richard Nixon was talking he seemed he spoke as though he were completely oblivious to the fact that those tapes are running there I want to say a couple of times and we better run that back I mean but he had faith in our system very few people knew his longtime faithful secretary rosemary woods didn't have a clue ever we kept that secret for over two years in Kissinger did yes I did know Ehrlichman didn't know and Ehrlichman would normally know everything Haldeman knew only only the president Bob Haldeman and his staff assistant Larry Higby and new and then al Wong the boss who put them in and ability technicians I used to think it was three but therefore technicians so that's five Secret Service guys and four other PG what did you when did you and Bob Haldeman talk about you know gee this thing this could blow up if these tapes know our revealed you know we were pretty confident that if as long as we kept the secret it would be kept in that that is the way it was then I wanted to leave the White House wonderful job that I had and you know I forgot the Vietnam thing I was a victim I was ensnared by the glitter of the presidency myself just from that little 40-minute talk with Haldeman at the Pierre hotel in in New York I thought well and then when he offered me that job on January 12th eight days before the inaugural to be his deputy I had worked a little bit in the Johnson White House with McNamara every time the secretary defense went I went with him and I I knew what the White House was all about and I thought deputy White House chief of staff that is not too bad I will think about that and so that's why I decided to get out of the airforce immediately and join the Nixon team get up can I just interrupt and ask this question because what's so interesting the presumption Nixon had and he wrote this in his memoirs that he thought the taping system would never be disclosed that no one would ever learn about it and what that tells us not just about the Nixon White House but I think about the White House in general there's that sense of invincibility that we have all the power now we have all the cards and no one can challenge us and that for good reason that was the norm yes tonight and I think a lot of people would argue to a certain extent that's the norm today that there are a lot of people in the think and there's some evidence and I've done two books on Obama that they have a sort of immunity that they by God we are the president and we make we have all this power and make all of these decisions and of course it was the Watergate crisis itself that changed that relationship between the press and the president nowadays I mean it's much more of an adversarial relationship than existed prior to prior to the wall yes that's one of the legacies yeah that the executive branch lost power and the legislative branch and the media gained but more again now let let's look at the Year 2015 and and there it the message managers the press people the communications people in the White House and in Congress and in lots of institutions in this country have immense power and you call the White House a young reporter told me this risk said he called the White House and wanted to talk to somebody about a story which was actually a good idea and the press officer said why is that a story and it's kind of like you know we're going to decide over here what's the story we're going to answer what we want and there I found in working on books about george w bush and obama that if you had a year you could get information you could talk to people you could interview the president but if you have to do it on deadline or you have to do it in a week they can Stonewall you would think but but but they do if you you I know you've read some of the oral histories with you know journalists who covered the Roosevelt White House and Great Depression in World War two and you know now of course we know that the President had a mistress you know the president was manipulating a lot of outcomes the president drank alcohol at a prodigious rate all day long none of that was known at the time and these journalists have been asked in these rows why didn't you tell anybody why why didn't read about this and they would say because we were told that if we said these things we'd never be allowed back into the White House ever again well there's some of that there's also that a lot of people didn't know and that this information didn't circulate and I think there I think we ought of face reality in the press and the public and voters that we do not know enough about what goes on in the White House or the Congress the CIA the Pentagon you name it and part of it is a closed system has been created by lots of people and high places to make sure they control the message and when you are living in an environment of impatience and speed in the Internet and people think a story is a hundred and forty character tweet it isn't and you know those tweets are fine but they don't really get to what's going on and you got to peel the onion and that takes time and people in the press rarely have sufficient time to did get to do that speaking of those tapes that you wanted to get back to a lot of people don't know I don't think that I would have been scot-free had you not fingered me you fingered me it was Bob who was interviewed early on by when the Watergate committee started opened up around May of 73 and they published in The Washington Post all the people they were going to interrogate throughout the summer of 73 in the order in which they would interrogate them senator when interviewed Bob because he was a star investigative reporter and said do you want to join our committee staff over here and Bob said no I'm happy at the post he said well do you know any smart young person that might want to do that and he said yes I do indeed and he mentioned his friend that I guess they were both from Wheaton Illinois knew each other as young men Scott Armstrong who was the co-author of the Brethren Bob's third book but that hadn't happened yet I guess it hadn't happened yet and Scott then so Scott gets the job now he's got an avenue to the committee and his man is Scott there yeah sand in so they're after John Dean testifies and makes the accusations which was June 23 against the president saying the president was running the cover-up the Senate Watergate committee said how are we going to confirm this or refute it yeah and so they Scott Armstrong asked me who they should talk to because they're looking for satellite witnesses and I said the one guy I never talked to is a guy named Alexander Butterfield and I went to his house one night and knocked on the door and no one was there and I've failed to follow up and so then they called you that Friday afternoon in July and went you know for hours asking you questions and it wasn't Scott but it was the former FBI agent right on Sanders who asked you the question remember the question so of course I remember the the question but that there there was then this you could call it a dilemma and to keep it from being a dilemma the dilemma being am I going to be true to my word to the president that I would never tell about the tapes Haldeman and I were sworn to secrecy or was I going to tell about the tape so I there I was a little conflicted there momentarily and I thought I will just not say anything about it unless I'm asked a direct question and that had to you would think he's a lawyer but he's not no not at all and so so that's what I did that was my plan and was it your expectation before that phone call to come meet initially with the staff the committee you thought well I'll probably never get that direct question oh yes I was gone I was sure I would not get a question though they wouldn't even be called and I think it's possible I don't know that they would not have got to you because you were an unknown figure and I was leaving Tuesday on a almost a three-week trip I was going to be other country and I was just looking forward to Tuesday morning when I was going to leave and I was vetted by this staff group on Friday the 13th of July of 73 and I held them off for more than four hours and finally when Scott Armstrong turned it over to the minority that's Fred Thompson's assistant and not Fred Thompson but his assistant in there a former FBI guy he said getting back to that memo mr. Butterfield and they had asked me about the memo they said where might this have come from if I had wanted to tell them below everything I could have considered that a direct question where might this have come from I could say I know where this came from this could only have come from one place it was a very detailed memo P&D for president and dean and it looked just exactly like a transcript from the tapes I thought how the hell could they get this but I said it was interesting the White House Fred desert the lawyer set it down to the water that's why I couldn't believe what I was reading so I said to fuzz it a little bit I said that looks too detailed for memory I just don't know and I threw it down on the table and said let me think about that for a moment and to my great surprise and relief they went on with other things administrative things until it got to the minority guide Don Sanders the former FBI guy who came back and said Mr butter for getting back to that memo you mentioned addictive addictive belt machine the president used but it was only for rose woods these are his exact was there ever any other listening device or recording thing in the Oval Office that was about as direct as you could get so I thought and so what I was toast I really thought I would be out the next day so you you you the the faithful question comes and you answer it and what are you thinking at that point when you say yes there was well I was thinking of yeah I just didn't think I'd be around long well I knew that going in if I had to do that on the other hand I had befriended the guy that you surround meet the press Larry Spivak yeah and he said no no you're the last guy they won't fire you right after it would look too funny enough you tell about the tapes you're going to be around for a while but he was an interesting footnote that is not in the book which you know about when you disclose the taping system that Friday July 13 1973 it was secret among the staff but they're particularly Sam - who was the chief counsel he was they told him about it yeah and I talked to - that day and he said you won't believe what happened Nixon taped himself and I checked with other people and in deed that's what you'd testified to and so I was haunted I mean there these are the secret tapes what am I going to do what should we do and so on Saturday I was kind of you know figuring you know should I talk to somebody at the post so on Saturday night I called Ben Bradlee who was the editor Carl and I never used the chain of command by the way we always went right to him and I said Nixon taped himself there's a secret taping system and Nixon said that man Bradley said what what did Nixon do at a secret taping system and he didn't seem impressed and I said well what are you thinking and Ben said well I wouldn't bust one on it and I think it's just kind of a b-plus story so I thought okay I'm off the hook and I took sunday off and then they called you on Monday the testify in public and there was one of those uproars in the newsroom in Washington secret tapes and so two Bradley's credit he came by and my desk and he knocked me said okay it's better than a b-plus upped it to an a-minus yeah so Alex what happened on the Monday you know you have your moment before the national cameras the minority counsel to the committee Fred Thompson who indeed yeah that's a courtesy the only weeks ago asked you that question what happened right after that what happened late about there later that day oh you know you now you've gone vividly public first of all he did say mr. Butterfield with a Tennessee accent he was a baker a person that Baker brought in there to be on the committee right and he said are you aware of listening devices in the Oval Office that was the opening question and I that he used the present tense and I'd been gone from the White House for four months I'd been at the FA I was the new FAA Administrator and I applause for a long time and I thought we might as well get this straight mr. Butterfield are you aware of the installation of any listening devices in the Oval Office of the President I was aware of listening devices yes sir you aware of any devices that were installed in the executive office building office of the president yes sir at that time were they installed at the same time they were installed at the same time could you tell us a little bit about how those devices worked how they were activated for example I don't have the technical knowledge but I will tell you what I know about how those devices were triggered they were installed of course for historical purposes to record the president's business and they were installed in his two offices the Oval Office and the EOB office and then from then on they asked a lot of questions and yeah I was only on there for about an hour 20 or something like that most people on there for days I had comm box sitting behind me they had in jail his residence personal lawyer yeah and he was waving gone he had no idea why I was puttin ahead of him and and so then I walked down the hall I didn't notice nobody around I didn't know how the hell to get out of that building I had no idea how to get out of that building as a matter of fact I called my driver and he said I'm circling out here and I can't find the exit so but I finally did and this is a funny this is a funny story everybody your official cars were all Mercury's the big mercury and they had stopped using Chrysler's in Cadillacs and he said he'd been circling out there so I came out some door I don't know where and I see there's a lot of traffic out there but I see the mercury out there so I make a run for it and there reporters out there and they're running after me and I'm running a little faster I'm a little closer to the car and I jump in the back seat it hidden even my car it's it that's true it's just some guy with the mercury and his back and as the back door was open but he picked up on a ride he saw these people running and he you know like get in you know where are we going this suddenly he's the driver you know in the getaway car but he was pretty nice he circled around and and you know we found my driver these two Mercury's came alongside I jumped from one to the other but no I never saw paper I went back I was leaving the next morning six o'clock taken up for the Soviet Union and I had a lot of stuff to do so I didn't see any news and then the next day you face some rimoni subsequently from some of your own former colleagues and Oh in the white house yes yeah I did that hurt and as I told Bob it hurt more with the air force guys the commander in chief is the commander in chief and it's kind of a military thing and it appeared that I had done harm to the president by some people and like who is that upstarts on which I know that's that was the and I had you kid I had friends who didn't speak to me should have said Ben Bradlee thinks it's only a b-plus but yeah that that was hard a lot of people didn't understand some people at the White House didn't understand and by understand I mean well also understand the fact that this man they loved and I have never seen there's a lot of they deified him a lot of the people on that staff I hadn't seen that before I had admired and always had admired a lot of people men and women but this aw I had never been quite in awe of some of the way they were all in awe of Richard Nixon and his brilliance and all of that but Nixon assigned you tasks and that took away some of that all and one of the ones that really struck me when you told me about it and then their memos to back it up is he was walking in the staff offices Christmas Eve 1969 the first year of his presidency and saw a lot of the staff people or a good number of them had pictures of John F Kennedy on their desks or on the wall and then technically not staff people or their civil servants supports the support staff the people who are in the White House all the time presidents come and go the central files people the telegraph office people the travel office those people are there at the White House all done so they've worked for a lot of presidents and many of them had maybe their favorite president yeah and then Nixon blew up and said to you this is an infestation I want you to investigate there was one woman who had to John F Kennedy oh yeah get her he's like a double infestation and get all those pictures out then get president pictures of Nixon in their place and you conducted this big investigation and you mean this is what stunned me you wrote a memo not to hold them and the Haldeman at one point said to you you know you've got to get on with this investigation because Nixon brings it up asks about it every week at least yeah but it started with Nixon and me Haldeman got into it later right and and you write the memo to Nixon now describing how you got all the infestation out and got his pictures up but the the heading on the memo is sanitization of the I mean I when I read that I thought sanitization that somehow you know the president has convinced you that somehow this is so bad that they have to go sanitize the place to get John F Kennedy major zone which you know unfortunately we were just about out of time we could go on for a long time we have an opportunity to continue the discussion in another context in just a moment but let me just say a few words before we get to our to our question answer period first of all I want to thank Bob Woodward I know all of you would agree with me to thank Bob for his courage his commitment to a free press his determination to write contemporary history and of course the central role he played and what had fast become one of the great crises in our in our nation's history and I also of course and I know you all join me I want to thank Alex Butterfield for his courage his wisdom you know I have to say out I wanted to conclude with this remark I mean amidst all the gray areas and moral dilemmas amidst all the claims counterclaims that we know have been made in the past are made and with this book now you know will continue to be made I have to say with that one simple declarative answer to a straightforward question before the Watergate committee you saved American democracy Alex I really believe that thank you both you mean you don't think I'm going to have to wear this you

Channel: University of California Television (UCTV)

Views: 35,149

Rating: 4.6129031 out of 5

Keywords: Watergate, Nixon, Vietnam, zilch memo, tape recording in Oval Office, Bob Haldeman, Woodward and Bernstein, Ben Bradlee

Id: -MuC91bcB18

Length: 58min 32sec (3512 seconds)

Published: Fri Dec 18 2015