The Jordan Peterson Phenomenon // Ty Gibson

hey everybody i want to explore with you what i'm going to refer to as the jordan peterson phenomenon now i'm fully aware of the fact that the moment i say his name people are split in their opinion he has been named one of if not the most controversial figure of our times as a public intellectual but i want to explore something regarding jordan peterson's thinking that i think is of extreme significance especially from the standpoint of the biblical narrative and you'll see where i'm going with this in just a moment but the reason i'm bringing him up is because just a few days ago on march 2nd on tuesday jordan peterson's much anticipated new book beyond order 12 more rules has been released i haven't had a chance to read the book yet i fully intend to but this book already before anybody has had a chance to even read it is making waves there is a sense in which jordan peterson is striking a number of nerves in western civilization in fact you'll notice that on the title of the book there's a quote from the new york times that says something quite astounding it says that jordan peterson is the most influential public intellectual in the western world right now the most influential public intellectual in the world right now his previous book 12 rules for life well that book sold five million copies it was translated into multiple languages jordan peterson has 3.5 million subscribers on youtube and that is a significant number of people tracking with somebody who's doing one hour 90 minute two hour lectures of classroom style information 3.5 million subscribers absolutely astounding to say that he has an audience is an understatement to say that he is a force to be reckoned with in western thought is an understatement jordan peterson is making waves people are angry at him and about the things that he's saying other people are celebrating and applauding him and this is a unique moment for us to contemplate some of the issues that figure in to what the bible describes as moral conscience now watch this as we look through his second set of 12 rules beyond order names the new set of twelve rules with very very direct language that is specifically aiming to elicit action from those who engage with the new book number one is do not carelessly denigrate social institutions or creative achievements do not it's a mandate it's a specific call to action number two imagine who you could be and then aim single-mindedly at that aim take aim for something go after it number three do not hide unwanted things in the fog get in touch with what you're not facing what you're not processing number four notice that opportunity lurks where responsibility has been abdicated number five do not do not do what you hate if your conscience is aroused against something obey your conscience don't do it number six abandon ideology abandon ideology everything that jordan peterson is saying is along the lines of engage your will and act i'm not going to read all 12 but there is a general pattern to his thinking that can be summarized quite simply as follows peterson is saying to the world grow up and take responsibility now i don't know how that lands on you grow up and take responsibility this is the kind of thing that he says over and over and over again now as he calls people to action to grow up and take responsibility the christian world has been kind of leaning forward and listening in on what peterson is saying grow up and take responsibility we must at first glance realize is not the gospel it is not the gospel but the fact is that once a human being has encountered the gospel that is the unmerited grace of god the the completely unconditional love of god for every human being once we have embraced the good news of unconditional favor and acceptance well the fact is that scripture immediately calls us to engage in a process of moral development and growth ephesians 4 for example we won't go there and read the text but go and read ephesians 4 and the apostle paul presents jesus as a kind of template human being as if jesus is the new human into which all of us are called to replicate our lives in harmony with his paul explicitly says in ephesians 4 that we are called upon to grow up in christ in all things to the full stature of men and women in christ and then galatians 5 very specifically says that once somebody has received the gospel that is the good news of god's unconditional love and favor that fruit is going to be born love joy peace and among the fruits of the spirit is self-control so one way of defining moral maturity not salvation but moral maturity is responsible self-governance and this is what jordan peterson is all about responsible self-governance do what you know you ought to do but he's suggesting that human beings move in this self-governing direction apart from and in a void of the empowering grace of god but let's not fault him too quickly because in fact jordan peterson regards himself to some significant degree in his public statements to be an unbeliever he has over and over again in response to the question do you believe in god he has said said things like well no i don't believe in god but i act as if i believe in god and we'll see what he means by that as we go on but here's the thing about moral responsibility we might think of it like this that the highest state of existence for a human being could be described as freedom to do whatever you want without fear of punishment while choosing not to do whatever you want by placing yourself voluntarily under the self-control of love now just think about that for a moment the highest state of existence for a human being is the state of being in which i'm free to violate you but i choose not to now recently tim ferriss one of the most listened to popular podcasts on the planet tim ferriss the tim ferriss show interviewed jordan peterson preparatory to the release of his book on march 2nd now this was something of significance because tim ferriss is generally perceived as and comes across as somebody who is not in any sense conservative in his values and at the same time probably would be regarded as an unbeliever i don't know if he regards himself as a agnostic or an atheist but tim ferriss interviewing jordan peterson was a significant moment especially for people who regard jordan peterson as saying significant things right now that the world needs to hear now wherever you stand regarding jordan peterson i don't have an interest in getting into the most controversial things that he said but i do have an aim to communicate through what jordan peterson says in answer to certain questions a vital truth that scripture brings to the surface well tim ferriss asked jordan peterson a pretty significant question he says to jordan peterson quoting tim ferriss in one of his questions on the podcast you've described knowledge of the stories of the bible as vital to proper psychological health now jordan peterson's an unbeliever by his own admission an unbeliever who has chosen to live again according to his own words in accordance with the idea that god exists but he's never answered the question explicitly yes i believe in god he's always answered the question essentially indicating that he is an unbeliever who believes in the significance of the moral principles that scripture communicates and that the idea of god's existence brings to light so this question is an extremely powerful question to ask somebody who has psychological training and some 20 000 hours of clinical practice as a psychologist this is a significant question to ask jordan peterson and i think you're going to be blown away at how peterson's responds so he begins by saying that thought exists in a hierarchy now what does he mean by that especially in relationship to value by which he means moral values in our relationships and the more profound check this out the more profound the thought a human being has or expresses the more profound the thought the more it deals with fundamental values well what does he mean by fundamental values a fundamental value peterson says is one upon which many other values depend track with his thinking here very carefully that's the technical definition of a hierarchy a hierarchy is a pyramid shape with a large foundation and upon the foundation of certain key foundational bottom line values other lesser values are built so he gives an example he says the hierarchy of moral values might look something like this he says consider for example that you are married and you and your spouse have engaged in an agreement that she will wash the dishes and he will wash the dishes that the dishes will be a responsibility that will be shared and traded back and forth and he poses the question well what happens if the person to whom you're married does not fulfill the agreement between you to bear their share of the responsibility especially since you have made an arrangement well he toys with the idea and he says well it doesn't really matter if somebody doesn't wash the dishes once or twice or ten times maybe there's something going on but if the person says i will and then consistently does not well you begin to experience a gap in the expectations that exist between you and he says you know washing dishes is a small matter in the hierarchy of moral values but then imagine that the person to whom you're married has an adulterous affair well now the hierarchy of value has come to a foundational issue that compromises the very stability and integrity of the relationship now you have to remember peterson is thinking these things through not as a believer in god or of christ or of scripture but as somebody who is saying what i'm observing as a psychologist in human experience is that intrinsically human beings all of us operate within the matrix within the atmosphere the climate the the relational dynamics of hierarchical values on a moral level so he says that not washing the dishes i mean come on that's no big deal that would be a minor ontological shock to your system very minor in fact but an adulterous affair he says would be a major ontological shock i mean it would rock your world you would begin to question everything because you're operating on the assumption of fidelity in the relationship and the moment fidelity is gone suddenly you find yourself in an existential meltdown because what you were depending on morally to be there as a foundation to hold up the structure of your life has been yanked from beneath your feet and you feel like you're falling he goes so far as to explain that there are psychological and biological adverse effects from moral violations that bring major ontological shock to a person's moral sensibilities so he says there is a hierarchy of values now the context here is very significant because he's saying there just is whether you whether you want to to agree with it in any given moment or not there just is a hierarchy of value and the deeper you go the more values look religious almost by definition now we're now we're seeing that he's inching forward in answering tim ferriss's question regarding why it is that peterson an unbeliever recommends that people become intimately familiar with scripture with the stories of the bible he's essentially saying here that the deeper you go in the hierarchy of values you end up with a sense of religious value there that the deepest values we hold are religious by definition he says and what happens when you encounter those values moral values at the most foundational level the value for example of fidelity in a relationship faithfulness in a covenantal commitment what is it that you experience when you encounter the most perfect and true values of morality he says well you tremble in other words you're in awe that the world operates this way you tremble in the presence of the thought of the commitment you've made and the need to follow through with that commitment and not violate it and then he says this and you might think he's talking to tim ferriss here who is i guess an unbeliever at least he hasn't said otherwise and you might think well not me no i don't tremble in the face of in the contemplation of the foundational moral values and then peterson says well all that means is that you are protected to a degree that you can't possibly imagine by which he means in psychological terms that you are engaged in a very deeply rooted and embedded sense of denial and evasion and then he says and one day perhaps you'll run into someone malevolent somebody who is evil and wicked and cruel for example and what will happen he says the scales will fall from your eyes he's essentially saying that when you encounter concrete evil malevolence suddenly you will find moral values coming up from the deepest levels of your soul and demanding answers that you cannot encounter evil you cannot encounter malevolence firsthand and not suddenly have some morals suddenly say that ought not to be a person shouldn't do that kind of thing so he's telling us in so many words that foundational moral values are so deeply rooted in reality that they are essentially undeniable the deepest values are religious he repeats and our religious document is the bible and the bible is an absolute mystery now when he says our religious document he means western civilization that the book the document the religious document upon which western civilization is founded is the bible and in that sense even as an unbeliever he refers to it as as our religious document and he says it's an absolute mystery so he says i don't care if you're atheistic or not the deepest questions are religious questions i mean he's just pressing in and he's saying listen whether you believe in the existence of god or not in this moment ultimately you have to come face to face with the reality that if you find yourself with a real life encounter with malevolence with evil with wickedness that suddenly you would find yourself issuing moral mandates against the evil that you encounter and so he says it doesn't matter if you're an atheist the fact is that the deeper you go down the rabbit hole of moral values it becomes more and more religious by definition and the bible is the best answer we have the best answer we have to what well to the hierarchical value system and the question of what it means to be a human being and if you don't like that if you don't like the fact that the bible occupies this very grave and astounding position well fine do better and he says good luck good luck doing better than scripture than the biblical narrative in answering the question of the human being's hierarchical sense of moral value i mean he says there's wisdom in that book that is unbelievable again this is a psychologist a secular professor although he's not practicing in the classroom presently this is a psychologist who doesn't even claim to believe in god and he's saying that when you look at the bible it's unbelievable the story of cain and abel he just throws out an example is one paragraph long just go to genesis and read the story the story of king and abel is just one paragraph long and you can't think and you can think about that story for the rest of your life now he goes on to elaborate the fact that this story is so deep in moral implications it's so deep in its in the approximation that it makes to every person's universal sense of meaning that he says you can spend the rest of your life thinking about the story of canaan evil and never exhaust the story he goes on to explain about the story of cain and abel that when he first read it and began to probe what it means he says the words i've never recovered from reading that one paragraph in the bible it altered his existence because of the powerful impact that it exerted upon him i would say before you throw it aside that is before you throw the bible aside the biblical narrative aside maybe you should try it maybe you should try what the bible says whether you're an atheist or not put it to the test you don't have a better option anyway what does it mean to try though he says try it but then he poses the question what does it mean to try and this is astounding mostly i would say it means two things it means to practice love to try the bible to try the bible it means to practice love and that means that you assume that things are valuable and you act according to that assumption let me just repeat this you guys he's saying that the best answer to the question of meaning the best answer to the question of moral values is found in the bible whether you're an atheist or a believer he's saying just is what it is and there is no better answer and then he says what do you got to lose just try it and what does it look like trying the bible this is what peterson gets out of scripture as an unbeliever reading it he says well it looks like practicing love it looks like ascribing value and then acting as though that value is the truth of the matter but he goes deeper and that requires truth and that requires truth which means don't say what you know to be untrue there are two things that peterson thinks are the key principles the foundational principles of scripture truth and love if you take scripture seriously whether you're a believer or not even as a atheist or an unbeliever of any stripe of any different perspective philosophically or religiously or otherwise if you take the bible seriously peterson is saying that you're going to encounter two foundational values truth and love and this is mind-blowing when i tried to unpack the first sentence of genesis he says in the context of the broader biblical narrative check this out what appears to be happening is that well there's a proposition that is in the biblical narrative that god is guided by love and uses truth to create peterson an unbeliever a psychologist just reading scripture comes away and he says well i'll tell you what i see in the first sentence of the biblical narrative in the larger context of the whole story and it is that god is love and god creates by means of truth it's something like that he says and maybe love he gives a definition for love from the bible and maybe love is something like the wish that all being that is every living creature would flourish and then this line there isn't a better story than that peterson an unbeliever is simply saying i've looked at what the world has to offer i'm not even sure i believe in the existence of god but i can tell you this much there is no better story than the story of scripture there is no better idea on the table than god is guided by love and creates by means of truth nothing better than that peterson says try to come up with a better story make something up engage your creative mind come up with a new perspective a new religion a new philosophy and he's saying you can't beat this one idea this one story god is love and god creates by means of truth well there is a problem that peterson hints at and the problem is that we humans are not living in harmony with the story of scripture peterson is essentially saying that there is a chasm between what scripture teaches regarding love and truth and moral values and the human experience now within the the parameters of christian theology we call this the sin problem he's saying essentially that we have a problem and that is that we don't live up to the ideals of scripture the ideal of practice practicing love for the common flourishing of human beings and he gives an example and now he delves into conscience he says you don't wake up in the morning berating yourself for telling the truth he's telling tim ferriss hey tim you never wake up and regret doing the right thing you never wake up and regret telling the truth but you do wake up at four in the morning berating yourself for violating your conscience and this is mind-blowing classically peterson goes on to say at least in some strains of christian thinking conscience is associated with christ or with the holy spirit it's the voice of god within it's the voice of god speaking within the realm of the human heart he's telling us that conscience is something extremely significant and i'm aware of all the criticisms he says of of this idea of moral conscience and that god is is pulling upon the human heart in a certain direction but he says you know what you know what it's really something that you can't control your conscience i'm aware of the criticisms of the idea that god exists and that human beings exist within a created reality of moral values that operate in a hierarchy of value i'm aware that the idea that we have a conscience that speaks to us because god is speaking i'm aware of the criticisms of the idea but he says listen what are you going to do with the fact that you don't have control over this thing that we call conscience so if you don't have control over your conscience he says so what is it exactly what is this activity that involuntarily occurs within the realm of the human mind that says that's right that's wrong what exactly is this thing called conscience it's not you what does he mean by that you're responsible to it it holds you accountable it transcends you so what is it you don't have control over it it speaks to you your actions are continually scrutinized and judged at the level of conscience you wake up feeling guilty about things you've done wrong so what is conscience if it's not the voice of god he's asking well if you think it's nothing if you think conscience is nothing it's just a product of materialistic evolution if you think that it's nothing violate it for a while and see what happens and what he's suggesting is that if you repeatedly violate the integrity of your conscience which is dictating the difference between right and wrong that you will begin to psychologically and emotionally and even biologically he says you will begin to suffer you will begin to break down you can't violate your conscience and not suffer mental emotional and biological consequences so if you think it's nothing just violate it for a while and see what happens to you listen you guys to the degree that any person including jordan peterson this extremely controversial figure and i'm using him for a specific purpose to make this point to the degree that any person objectively observes reality we call this science science is the quest to be as objective as possible and to just observe to experiment and report and to the degree that any person objectively observes reality guess what they are encountering the characteristics of the god who made all of it so as an unbeliever jordan peterson is basically just observing how reality operates and he's saying wow i'll report to you what i see as a psychologist as a scientific observer i will report to you what i see well it looks to me it looks to me like human beings operate on the assumption of a hierarchy of moral values and if you violate those moral values you suffer you suffer mentally emotionally and biologically if you go against the grain of conscience now scripture comes along and while religious people are arguing over who's in and who's out who's a believer who's an unbeliever who's saved who's not saved scripture comes along and in acts chapter 10 verses 34 35 peter says in truth i perceive that god shows no partiality that is with human beings but in every nation doesn't matter where you drop your finger on the globe on the map in every nation whoever fears god whoever is in awe of god and works righteousness is accepted by god now works of righteousness within the biblical understanding of the gospel works of righteousness do not generate salvation that's not peter's point but works of righteousness do reveal it do reveal whether or not a person is leaning in and gravitating toward the voice of god that is calling them in their conscience well scripture goes on in the book of acts to say something quite astounding regarding what god sees when he looks upon the earth versus what you and i see in acts chapter 18 verses 9 and 10 this is absolutely profound now the lord spoke to paul in the night by a vision what did the lord say to paul do not be afraid paul but speak and do not keep silent for i am with you and no one will attack you and here's the part that i want you to get no one will attack you or hurt you for i have many people in this city just pick that line up you guys i have many people in this city what city well the context here is the city is corinth an extremely hedonistic decadent city a city of great immorality a city that was known and infamous for its immorality and god looks down upon upon corinth and he says to paul hey paul i see what you don't see you see a mass of human beings who are living apart from god but i have many people in this city i mean if i find myself in the middle of manhattan or los angeles or chicago or pick copenhagen or the most secular or immoral city you can think of in the world name whatever city you want i think god sees what i don't see what you don't see god says yeah it looks like this is a city of unbelievers but god says i have many people in this city as we labor in the world to bring the gospel to men and women and children we need to know that god is there before we even get there that god is working on people's hearts and and awakening their conscience and stimulating within them a desire for love and truth as opposed to deceit and hate god is continually active and when god looks upon the world he says i see that there are many people that i have not a few many people that i have in corinth in la in new york city wherever you put your finger on the map god has people augustine said it this way god has many people the chur that the church does not have god has many people that the church does not have and the church has many people that god does not have god looks upon the church and he sees unbelievers that are going through the motions of religion whereas we identify believers it's a mixed bag it's wheat and tares according to the parable of jesus in matthew 13. the church has many people within the parameters of the church within the parameters of christianity that god identifies as not with him but then god looks out upon the wide world he looks upon the the wide world of secular unbelievers and he says but i have many people there i have many people in these places there are many apparent unbelievers who are really believers let that register think this through for a minute the implications of scripture are that there are many apparent unbelievers who are really believers and there are many apparent believers who are really unbelievers you and i literally don't know who's who and this is why scripture repeatedly says don't judge don't pass your judgment on any human being because every human being is a son or daughter of god in process and god is working overtime in every conscience distinguishing between good and evil and calling every single person on the planet to come into harmony with the principles of truth and love that are constantly revealed in second timothy chapter 2 verse 19 the apostle paul says it this way the lord knows those who are his the lord knows the implication here is that god knows but you don't i don't you look upon the world you look upon the city of corinth you look upon the city of chicago you look upon the city of any city in the world and you don't see what i see the lord knows those who are his and then let everyone who names the name of christ depart from iniquity god sees people who belong to him that we don't see the lord sees into the heart and he knows what's going on in every conscience he knows what tim ferriss is thinking in the conversation with jordan peterson he knows what jordan peterson is thinking at the bedrock level of his conscience regarding all of the things that he's processing and thinking through the lord knows those who are as his paul says but let everyone who names the name of christ depart from iniquity listen paul is telling us two things not only does god see people that belong to him that we don't see but he's issuing a warning and he's saying to those within the fold within the church within christianity he's saying listen don't bear the name of jesus as a cloak for iniquity let everyone who names the name of christ depart from iniquity don't use christianity as cover for violating people so in conclusion scripture is essentially telling us that it's possible to think you're saved when in fact you're not well that's probably not much of a revelation to most of us but the inverse is also true it's possible to be saved while not knowing that you are there are people who believe in love and truth and justice and righteousness and integrity there are people who make and keep their promises there are people who tell the truth even when it is to their disadvantage there are people who experience generosity and give out of the abundance of what they have while all the while claiming that they don't believe in god and yet god is the source of that generosity god is the one who's tugging upon the heartstrings of conscience god is the one who is there moment by moment nanosecond by nanosecond pursuing tim ferriss and jordan peterson and ty gibson and the guy over here on the camera and the guy taking care of audio and every one of you by name and everybody you can think of that you ever lay eyes upon the god of the universe the lover of our souls is pursuing every member of the human race and in the area of public discourse as controversial as jordan petersen is he is a phenomenon in western culture right now to be reckoned with how will we reckon with the jordan peterson phenomenon well i would like to suggest that we reckon with the jordan peterson phenomenon by looking into our own hearts and consciences asking ourselves individually who am i am i listening to what god is telling me in my conscience and am i refraining from the constant impulse to judge others as unworthy of god's love and attention because i happen to not like what they're doing or saying i don't find myself in agreement with many things that i've heard from jordan peterson and yet jordan peterson is a human being in process who is identifying that even as an unbeliever that god is speaking whispering sometimes shouting in every single human conscience father in heaven you know each one of us you know who we are in the depths of our souls you know if we are leaning in or leaning out from what it is that you are saying to us father you are constantly pursuing every member of the human race our conscience speaks and it is you that is speaking to us as we distinguish between good and evil father may we each withhold our judgment and listen and process and be faithful to whatever it is that you are speaking to each of us may we not be found violating our individual conscience may we be found partaking of truth and love as the premise the foundation of the moral hierarchy of our lives in jesus name amen

Channel: Storyline Church

Views: 11,238

Rating: 4.8648648 out of 5

Keywords: storyline church, ty gibson

Id: uxDeVywVfyY

Length: 43min 17sec (2597 seconds)

Published: Sat Mar 06 2021