The Infinite and The Divine - Book Club & Review

foreign [Music] ER podcast episode 69. I'm your host Brad this is my co-host Eric how's it going and this episode is nice that's true we've got a special guest yeah so this is the book club for the infinite and divine this is the patron decided episode for the season this is one that we've been looking forward to and warning you about multiple times now unless this is your first time ever hearing of us in which case welcome but this is my third time reading the book Eric this is your second time reading it yup so we really didn't have a new perspective on it so we solved that problem so I'd like to introduce everyone to my wife say hello Jen hello oh you missed out on the hello Jen I almost did it I was gonna I was like man that's the perfect time to do it go for it so my wife Jenny is joining us she has just listened to it for the first time and we now have a perspective of basically every angle to cover this book from so without any further Ado let's jump into this sounds good so before we start off into the main discussion here we are going to from this point on assume you have either read the infinite and the Divine or you do not care about spoilers if that is not the case leave us YouTube pleasantries of here on YouTube and then get the hell out of here yeah I think I would definitely recommend this book if you're interested at all so if you're worried about spoilers go read listen whatever come back and yeah I think all three of us would recommend the book so there you go all right with that out of the way I guess a little background for people who are new to the show Jenny you've got passing 40K lore knowledge being related to people who are way too into it yes that's that's correct and you're a first time reader and this is your first 40K book right the full 40K book yes and then Eric this is the first one you read but now you've had more experience reading them but yeah I've got only a few extras but yeah this was the initial jumping Point into it and then there's me I've read I don't even know it's in the 30s at this point 40K novels and all the wikis basically you're the problem I'm the normal person and Jenny's the new person got it I know more about 40K lore than you should be comfortable admitting in public [Laughter] so we've got every angle covered on this book I also have 208 notes that I took during this reading I recommend not taking notes on a book that you like because it makes it a chore to reread I took a few notes as well because it was like I want to remember this quote because I it stuck out the first time and I need to make sure that I actually have it in mind but it definitely brought back memories to high school and and school of like I've got a deadline I'm doing a uh uh presentation in front of the class on this book that I read it's like oh [ __ ] yeah I would recommend not taking notes while you read a book it's a it's a negative experience but we make sacrifices for all of you all right let's start things off so Jen it's your first time reading this book what is your impressions and overall thoughts um of the book I enjoyed this book I wasn't intending to listen to it but it ended up happening that way and um the longer it went the more I was kind of like okay well now I guess I have to know how this ends and I really enjoyed it the two main characters are super dorks of the two which one's your favorite treason it's pretty difficult to not pick tracing in that one he just has a lot of the funniest [ __ ] I've heard people who are fans of work and more but I think it's going to be a minority opinion he has Shining Moments in this book on rereads I appreciate it more the first retriezen was like Wow Oregon's kind of lame the only reason I have any interest in that is because playing off treason but uh the second read I've actually enjoyed origin a lot more it just works better honestly on the second read through of like oh I understand now I think Oregon comes off more antagonistic the first time through the book and then your second or third read you you notice the both of them have flawed perspectives on everything yeah and you you see The Duality of where each one is wrong throughout the book and they're both in the wrong for the majority of the book oh yeah but uh yeah Oregon I think is just harder to like because he's a uh more selfish and shitty person from a normal person's perspective but you end up enjoying him more when you understand his character better I don't even know if it's that he's more salt like treyson's a selfish selfish person sure selfish was the wrong word but he doesn't look at things with emotional ones quite as much it's more of uh the end not the journey or reflection kind of thing and that means that like there's less of the emotional connection kind of thing doesn't quite hit as much until on the second read through you start seeing like glimmers here and there of like oh that's the emotional part of Oregon right there it's just muted compared to what treason is doing yes he definitely has the harder issues when it comes to lack of tact having issues in social interactions sometimes because he lets his emotions get the better of him where traysen is just the Suave I don't know about five but in comparison yeah yeah I think that shows a lot in the necron court scene yes so question Jenny what were your thoughts on taking a step back from this is a Warhammer 40K book what are your thoughts of just like is this book enjoy it like was it a well-written book kind of you know like and what would you say the genre is of the book so I feel like book if you troll replaced all of the Warhammer terms with other terms it would still be a good book it does have like the Warhammer overlaid on it but you could replace things with you know instead of Doom Scythe you replace it with airplane and it would still be a good book it's almost kind of like a buddy cop film yeah sure like what genre it would be because with all the Warhammer overlaid on it it does become like you know really sci-fi but there is like this like comedy yeah yeah it's it almost ends up being like a buddy cop comedy like these two people absolutely hate each other but now we have to work together and it's just hilarious yeah for me I had it listed as an adventure book yeah I could see that yeah yeah it's a buddy cop thing there's that is the main Dynamic for the characters but like it doesn't play out as an action book it's not really a mystery or anything to me it's like a flat out like a fantasy Adventure but it's set in the 40K setting yeah like there isn't a whole lot of action until like the very very end and even that is we had to do something to end this so now we're going to have an action scene to end this it's not really like the whole time there there's a few action scenes but they're not actual action scenes so much as a storytelling tool yeah because it you know it's like the book starts out and it's an action scene yeah it's a straight up Indiana Jones scene yeah he's running through and fighting and there's dinosaurs there's a riddle door he has to open there's yes foreshadowing for later in the book or story it is an Indiana Jones opener and that's the kind of thing that like continually shows up for the action scenes of like okay the action it's there and we're getting some explanation of like what's happening and like oh there's some callouts to the 40K but like this scene isn't about the action it's about progressing a story progressing a narrative which is where I get to Adventure as the genre instead of action I can see that the book isn't about the action and it's about an adventure and action occurs on adventures so there's always some action in an adventure yeah it kind of makes sense of the these two characters are in Conflict trying to get an item to a place at a time the McGuffin so that is the adventure but I don't know man like it for me it felt more comedy everything about it just hit spy versus spy over and over and over again and I loved every part of it it is a book that definitely enjoys the comedic aspects of 40K orc books in my opinion often do the same they understand that the setting is not all serious Grim Darkness a common thing I saw as a complaint for people who'd give a negative review of this book it tends to be people who don't get it and say I don't like this it's not Grim dark this isn't 40K from the angle of a necron yeah necrons are the Grim dark treyzen plays a practical joke and a planet dies one of the things that kept popping up and like this was a thing that I noticed originally but like on the second read I just kept thinking like holy [ __ ] [ __ ] necrons are scary they're like legitimately terrifying yeah and it's often like unintended consequences like they don't even think about it I didn't even catch this on the first read really I just it was kind of like listening to it and didn't really think about like the implication but uh when they're revisiting the awaken Council for the second time anyway in Council is like suspicious that aura can change the timeline during the court hearing thing right yeah they mentioned how after the hearing time was so screwed up because he had rewound the time like three times or whatever that reality was weakened there and a giant warp incursion occurred in the South Tech Homeworld right and like they had to fight off demon and lost like a a ton of necrons due to that yeah and there's like a list of like here's how many and it's like such a great like Oregon doesn't even think about it when he's just Spam using rewinding time and stuff for his own amusement and it's like making the universe weaker at defending itself wherever he is I think that is one of the themes throughout the book that kept popping up of like these two undying Immortal robots are doing so much on a galactic scale planets die civilizations are ruined and they don't really intend any of the things it just is a consequence of an action that they did without caring for the consequence yeah and there's like all through the book you get this like Oregon correctly predicts the end of a tomb world and just lets it happen because he wants to steal from it treyson finds out about the prediction and also does nothing because he just wants to steal from it and they just let him play die of their own faction because they're both Pricks yep it's horrible things happening but the characters don't care yeah because they are above needing to care about these things and this is why I also love the demon sections in the dark Imperium Trilogy it's horribly Grim dark because they're having fun goofing around and causing mass murder yeah and at one point there are destroyers that are Unleashed and it talks about like oh they're going to literally remove all life not a civilization not a people no life at all and just continue to unceasingly work towards that goal and it's like [ __ ] hell man they have like logic behind it they're not just like oh let's just let them loose and they're just gonna go just like they have a plan they have a system for this it's not just oh we'll just go burn everything no they have steps to take yeah one of them was treyson found one of the like remaining ones or whatever and it was like heading towards the ice caps or whatever to like melt them dice so that the increase of fresh water into the sea will screw up the oceans it just destroyed all of the ocean life and this is gonna increase the time frame for total annihilation of life from six Millennia to two and these are like your destroyers have this like oh they're just thinking on different time frames and we can get into time I think that is the major discussion of this book The Time themes throughout this book are amazing the playing with the perspective of what a time frame is and like how long it takes to do anything and how long a plan takes to enact yeah seeing something from an immortal perspective and actually understanding that Immortals don't care how long something takes unless external pressure is put upon them there are definitely some like absolutely hilarious time frames involved in this book I was talking with Brad after we finished one of the chapters and Oregon is like oh if you can catch me and then he goes and sits in his house for like two thousand years 300 years [Laughter] I have that note written and I'm like I forgot about that you're not making it really hard to find you here my man but okay I mean the difference is that like a lot of books are written from the perspective of like Mortal races so like you can't spend 400 years debating about who to wake up your characters won't live that long it doesn't make sense so it is hilarious that they spend like the entire human lifespan arguing about which person should wait they should wake up to make a decision they just don't care and they just have all this time the only thing they care about is like oh well in several centuries the rest of us are going to wake up and we should probably do something about that but until that time yeah whatever yeah they spent two years just debating who to wake up and that's like one conversation is two years long and later on Oregon and trousen are arguing about something and they have a an awkward silence that's an hour someone says something and then in awkward silence that's two hours while they just stare at each other yeah and it's like to them that's like it doesn't matter if it was two hours or two seconds of awkward silence there's a whole bunch of like really fun like long-term plans I guess the time thing goes both ways too because if we want to get into chronosense oh yeah which is the extra sense that allows you to like slow your perception of time yeah you go into like flash speed yeah you don't get faster but you experience time slower right and since you're basically a robot you get to think as fast as you can but you get things like a complaint about something taking two microseconds which is considered slow for how fast it triggered right trays in plotting an arc 200 times before carelessly tossing something to make it look cool oh yeah that's when he has the the mysterious mysterious yeah I was like it's the such a name of the astrarium mysterious yeah wow let's make it very obvious this is just this is a McGuffin but yeah he just like he has it and he's basically successfully taking it it's like oh I'll just toss it into my warp backpack dimensional pocket yes dimensional parking it said a lot which I can no longer take seriously yeah I mean there's a few of those types of things that come up like the uh the death mask replace all face with death mask yeah you can only do so much when you have to change Anatomy I think this is better handled honestly than toy stead King nodes is far more obnoxious than twice dead King than death mask is in Being for the Divine whenever you talk about an alien race you get into like weird you're going to overuse one way of saying something because you want your audience to be able to follow it yeah and it is good to like reference back to like these aren't human yeah I mean you can't say his face because he doesn't have a face when you say face you think of your face it's not a flesh face so it doesn't make sense to call it that there's a whole thing in both the infinite Divine and in twice dead King about the damage of biotransference on the mind yeah and part of it is they truly see it as their Death Masks they are dead this is like a death mask for a pharaoh that is placed over your face they do not believe their metal faces are their faces this is a replacement of their face that's a question that I had right at the beginning traysen does his oh I'm dead I'm gonna hop into somebody else so I'm not that thing and as he does it the living metal warps into his shape yes but at the same time it's not like what he was as a necron tear because he doesn't correct remember what he was as a necron tear so it's it that was always just a weird thing to me like he always is trazen and he warps to look like treason but what traysen looks like as a necron isn't what he looked like as a necron tear yes their physical forms is necrons seem to be based off of their subconscious traysen has his Cane he's hunched over with his hood right yeah because he was a hunchback who had a cane and everything in his former life and he doesn't really remember that life other than like little tiny fragments of things but it's still sculpts who he is as a necron twice a king gets into why that is and like why only important people have their brains but uh yeah it seems to be like uh your body is based off of your mind okay one of the nice things about infant and the Divine is that Robert wrath was actually able to show enough that you could Glimpse understanding without going too in depth to make it boring and at the same time not just being like name drop name drop name drop I'm sure you understand all of this because you've read 18 books previous exactly and that's why I think if you are interested in necrons in general like you read this book and you want more this followed by twice dead King is a really good way to go because twice dead King is much more focused on the psychological impact of biotransference and the Damage people have one of my favorite early lines in this with the hypocrisy of traysen is when he is talking about his cryptek and he says everyone had their damage not he though treyzen had returned with his entire faculties intact yeah and then his cryptic sanit was like my Lord crazy was like what uh you want me to repeat that oh yeah sure a couple scenes later with he he's visiting one of his other cryptex and he's like I've been asking about expanding the galleries but I would have to expand into the wine cellars so I need your approval and Trace is like no of course not he's like but Lord you do not drink wine of course I don't it's far too valuable yeah which is great as a joke and is hilarious because it's like he doesn't get that his servant is saying my Lord you're dead you literally cannot drink wine why are we keeping this [ __ ] right exactly like it's part of his obsession of he must store valuable objects he is essentially like a bird picking up shiny objects and keeping them in his nest he's a compulsive hoarder yes which treason does point out in this which I really like he points out in this to be an immortal you must have obsessions right if you do not have an obsession you will go mad something must keep you busy at all times you cannot be left alone with your thoughts in eternity and I mean that does make some amount of sense and it's honestly something that you see throughout the Book of every one of the necron seems to have their own obsessions whether it be you know trying to reconquer the Galaxy or trying to get back their flesh having some weird fetish for something they all seem broken in their own unique ways and there was a slight example of the if you're stuck with yourself kind of thing you go crazy with uh High metallurgist quelca yeah when you is stuck down there and like goes insane and it's like yeah part of it is the numbers repeating or whatever but I feel like part of it is also just that became the obsession he already had the flare virus at that point yeah which is it's something that's pointed out in this book and it's something on my first read I read the infant of the vine and then I read twice dead King and I went that's weird they both have different reasons for flare virus and how it works but in later reads of twice dead King I take that back because I think I misunderstood the first time how they thought Flair virus was occurring the numbers have nothing to do with it flare virus later on he says must already be in the subject the deceiver can't put it into you he can only trigger it if it's latent right exactly whereas that works better lore wise with how it works in twice dead King which is a whole different thing and the flare virus and the Destroyer weren't fully they weren't spelled out but there's enough like oh I kind of understand what's happening because there's enough examples of it happening yeah and that's something where I know I've watched an interview with Robert wrath talking about this he and Nate Crawley who did twice that King were basically given their assignment to make a necron book at essentially the same time okay neither of them really were in communication they just made their own necron books and released them and then got to read each other's book there's differences between the two that make technology not line up right stuff like that there is excusable difference where like Twisted King is about a dynasty that is like a nobody faction so you're seeing very different viewpoints between the two but they also had different ways on how destroyers work how the flare virus works because a lot of it is just there wasn't lore written out past like two sentences for these things before these books because necron lore was literally a couple short stories it's kind of wild reading the infinitely Divine I haven't read twice said King but it feels like it's fleshed out of like oh there's actually a lot lot of politicking going on behind the scenes and like oh there's a lot of hints to larger pictures yeah and I think Robert wrath did an amazing job of filling out this part of the universe so back to the necron court being Prime examples of a lot of that stuff it wasn't just the politics in the background happening there was also a few splashes of just like I forget what it was called it was gone like the kuvu yeah it's gone like the kuvu I have that one written too and it was just like what the hell is is that something I'm supposed to know and maybe it's in something else I don't know no it's a great self-explained a necrateer idiom that has existed forever and hey that's just part of the culture now and those little things at least made it feel like necrons had more to it I'm actually surprised that there wasn't a large amount of uh previous Works done to pull from from yeah all right Jen so it was your first time listening and it's kind of spoiled on Eric and I at this point so let's go through from your perspective I guess give us a breakdown of your thoughts on the plot and the story in total okay so one thing I did enjoy about this book is that because necrons are Immortal you get to see this planet kind of change you get to see all these civilizations build on each other but they're not even like the same species so they end up like trying to you know like we're gonna put our own name on it and then we can claim that it's ours and yeah sephoryl becoming serenade and yeah and you get to watch them where they're like oh these must have been built by the emperor and it's like no these were built by the last people who lived on this planet but sure you know whatever makes you guys happy I do enjoy the amount of uh oh there was no life and now there's like single bacteria and then it's evolves into like oh there's coral reefs and throughout the entire thing it's just like oh these new life uses the corpses of the old life yes that's like in that very opening scene of the planet without a name and then it ends with a horned spacecraft which is a doom Scyther equivalent appearing in the planet having a name and then did you understand that that was a necron spacecraft in that scene or did you just assume it was aldari because then the next time you're on the planet in the jump cut it's Eldar living on the planet I I can't say that I really it's too early in the book so you haven't formed yeah I haven't really gotten there but I know that the first time I read it I didn't know yeah but I actually appreciate on a reread that you if you know the book realize that's a necron ship not an Eldar ship that is the end of that scene but then you could even further pay off when after the exterminatus traysen is going down through the fossil record as he like descends into the planet to find the gate and he like sees oh here's the Elder in the fossil record and all this and then he sees an entire different population and culture before he gets to the necron one that just lived and died on this planet and no one knows they were there and I like how you get this feeling that the book story is the planet's story yeah I mean I really enjoyed that just because that's not something you normally see in books just you know again because you normally focus more on characters and less on like the planet as a whole so that was cool I enjoyed that treason is both his own problem and his own solution to just about everything yes he's really good at solving problems he himself causes yes but like he doesn't realize that he's caused this problem and then he solves it and it's like you wouldn't have had this problem if you didn't do this in the first place but whatever you know whatever man it's funny it works out yeah definitely what were your thoughts on the the museum aspect so like personally I love Museum okay so I enjoy his sense of like we should preserve stuff I mean admittedly he takes it extremely far yeah keeping live people in stasis Fields so they go mad experiencing 15 000 years between like conscious moments yes it's it's but for him it's like it's his compulsion but it is fascinating that he is attempting to keep all of these historical moments as a record and that Obsession kind of like pushes it to be like as accurate as possible oftentimes yeah which is alluded to quite often earlier on and there's the payoff with the orc oh God the rocket yes yes or he's like maybe I shouldn't store these things with fuel in them and it's like but why did you do that in the first place yeah but I mean I I can appreciate that he's basically trying to make living pictures because the things he's keeping are important it's not like he's just picking up every Rock he comes across but like the fall of a civilization he's like we should preserve this because this is an important moment this is the end of these people yes and I have a quote I really like where treyson's discussing humanity and how the Horus heresy changed everything for his interest in them because he said they were plentiful and were spreading across the universe but it didn't matter just the normal Empire spreading things like whatever yeah because he has a line where he mentions that if all he cared about was something's ability to breed and spread he'd have nothing in his Museum but insects which I think is a pretty interesting take on it of you need the drama of History the feeling of impact you need something to matter in order to have it be worthy of storing in general trousen had not been much interested in humans he collected them of course he collected everything but they considered them on the same level as Orcs nor various kinds of carnivorous algae they're spread across the cosmos had destroyed so many more interesting civilizations and since the rise of the Emperor their culture had an utter sameness that bored him if trousing cared about the mere ability to propagate and spread he'd spend his eternity collecting bacteria just because a thing was successful and ubiquitous did not make it fascinating it just made it common yeah so the themes going back and forth between these two main characters like constantly like trying to one-up each other and get the MacGuffin it's always interesting to see the museum aspect just because it's so unique in call outs and stuff like that and I'm interested to hear what your initial Impressions on the Oregon side of like when it's his introspection on when he has the artifact towards at the end of the book I really grow to like Oregon but that first scene where you meet him is so hard for me to get over because it's like he is willing to destroy all of this stuff and admittedly it's not his stuff but like he destroys all that Pottery which was made by the necrons back when they were still flesh and for me that's like you might never be flesh again like this was made back when you guys it's just like that's such a like it's such a like for me it just feels like that's such an important thing and you're just willing to like just wreck it all just cause you want a magic box and it's like I know that for him the box is more important but I can totally understand why treyland is so upset because it's like you can't replace this you can't just oh we'll just go out and make more there is no making more we can't ever do this again because we don't have flesh anymore like yeah I could probably go make some with my robot hands that's it's not the same thing it's like so this gets into souls in 40K which is a whole episode like they make pots but it won't it won't be a very systematic pop art it's going to it's gonna I literally made clay into the exact shape of a spear because I'm a robot now and that's all I can do yeah the only downside that seems to occur from losing your soul is you can no longer create art and you kind of go insane but whatever but it's so like for me it's like that's I get that he doesn't care about the past he's only interested in like the present in the future I mean he doesn't care about the present either that's true Oregon is a being of the future treyson is a being of the past and neither of them live in the present [ __ ] hell I disagree with that because I think Oregon makes a good point at one point I have his quote you've developed a fetishistic attachment to the present when he's talking to traysen he's basically telling traysen like you keep falling in love with all of these current societies that you hang out in like he's he's hanging out watching humans and he's worried about upsetting their culture while they're doing their investigation and stuff and Oregon's like it doesn't matter the present isn't important only the future is whereas like treyson finds it disgusting to like end a society that is like currently successful like to ruin something that is currently alive I definitely understand where you're coming from on that it seems to me that treyson's more interested on learning how to document the past correctly as perfectly as possible and that requires if you're able to live through it you can do a better job kind of thing and part of that is because like he has so many dead civilizations that like probably could have saved a bunch of but didn't yes he is more interested in the experience of the now than altering it yeah treason will not save a society that is currently collapsing he's there to witness and document the collapse but he would not cause a collapse of something that is currently existing because he wants to document it for some other reason at the time so one of the things that I found on the re-read is that like they both want to see art but they have such vastly different ideas like traysen's art is the present the you know poetry the theater whereas Origins art is like mathematical equations and puzzles in the mindscape and that kind of stuff even though it's not like he doesn't portray it as art it's just science it's just the future it's just is but like the way that he explains and talks about it is like somebody talking about this piece of art so yeah I mean that's kind of one of those things that it's difficult to pin down Oregon's heart on the initial read through at least it was for me because the trays inside is an experience that most of us humans can at least sort of relate to it's a museum I can understand a museum curator but the Oregon side of like he's gonna spend 300 years going over this equation over and over and over and over again in different permutations and it's like that doesn't make sense I think it's hysterical that they keep trying to like Rob each other back and forth to the point where their government basically steps in and says stop you have to stop because they're just getting so out of hand with their attempts to steal this box back from each other I do love that troyzen kind of reaches this point where he's like stop messing with all of my stuff and attempts to just murder Oregon in an Alleyway I love that scene so much it's so good the payoff of the I don't have the mysterious you can keep it after he just blows his [ __ ] brains out very much uh I'm just gonna break your legs because you've pissed me off oricon reached inside himself finding the wet warmth of his reactor leak the glowing Jade fluid coated his hand and he used it to paint a Sigil on his forehead crashed and he made an ancient oath one from a long ago home world where his kind had been flesh not metal back in those centuries the oath would have been taken with blood but now he took it with a substance more deadly and enduring I swear he said his vocal actuator's grinding by The Killing Sun by The Stars and dust by my ancestors and the progeny I swear to harness these powers and open the tomb of nepales the sky was growing dark he could see the stars but fast said Oregon I swear to destroy trust in the infinite I do enjoy that because the necrons are not so much indestructible but like replaceable like you can get away with a lot more of like the amount of times these main characters die is very high so they like just severely injure each other and then like it they just move on with their lives it does add to the sense of Comedy because you can get away with treason just blowing Orchid apart and being like keep it I am disappointed we didn't get trees and finger guns I was I was really hoping he was just gonna do finger guns and leave but it did end up being hysterical either way so yeah so the the present yes good guess spring presence and he just unleashes these horrifying scarabs okay bye monsters from the cottage Chan jungle or whatever it's an interesting one did you feel like you were like getting a list of things that are like uh hey you know this when they were doing either call outs in armies tracing with summon or things within his Museum or did you feel like they were fleshed out as like a item within the story where it doesn't feel like it's just there to go Hey look it's that thing you know from other lore so you you guys know my 40K lore is basically kind of like what I have been exposed to more in passing I happen to be around a lot of people who talk about 40K what a gentle way of saying that bread doesn't shut up my brother is also to blame I talk a lot about 40K but like I'm around people who talk a lot about it so I hear it I do feel like the things that treys and summons have because they get like their own story section written from their point of view you do get a feel for like these aren't just here because like hey remember that these things exist they are more like hatreds and some of these for a reason but also like I am aware that these are things that exist within the 40K universe but I don't feel like they're flat I feel like they're summoned more organically they make sense within the story and half the time they're things that he's like encountered in the story and he takes them and then they show up later what were your thoughts on like the Chekhov gun type thing of all of his the things that he's just like seeing in acting and then payoffs later type stuff is there more than one of that it takes the Dari writers it's the orc yeah I was like he takes actually a lot of things and not all of them are used in like the final battle okay yeah I guess I I emerged two events in my brain so it is there are at least three distinct events that he takes from I mean like when you're first listening to it and treyson is like I'm gonna take that it's always hysterical because he's always got other things to be doing but he's like nope we're gonna stop and we're gonna we're gonna take that home with us because that's just how Drazen is with the gargant yeah like he just he's like no we're taking that don't blow that up because I'm putting that in my house he allows hundreds of more necrons to die specifically because he wants to collect the undamaged garden you know they're unfortunately robots they really they didn't wake up well they're not really sentient which actually is an interesting thing on necron culture they were on the surface they're all gonna get reanimated true it's not like they were in the caves when they're in the caves it's a little bit different because now you're just wasting it but like when you're on the surface technically they were okay to be reanimated somebody's got to pick up all the parts to put them back together but I can't I can't blame him for going around being like I want that and I'm gonna take it with me but then at the end when it all kind of shows up again you're like hey that's cool that you brought that back so there were a few times that there were call outs of like I think it was Esteban 5 or something like that yeah Esteban 5 gets called out just things in his Museum are like he has a cork he has the HUD exhibit which is like a famous 30k enemy he has people from Esteban 5 which is a famous event in the Horus heresy is the whole istevan Wars and I think that even on the second time like the first time reading a bunch of those I was just like yeah okay thing and there's enough surrounding that you can kind of Intuit what actually you're supposed to get out of it like oh that's uh you know the Kirk that's a big like orky thing smash scary cool got it I feel like there are quite a few that like even on the second read through I'm like I don't know this but I clearly know that it's a thing like it's Devon five I don't actually know anything about it other than like it's not this book's thing it exists and it's a important part somewhere else to me the istavon5 one is a freebie because Esteban is like a static point in a horse hair so you can point to with a date and it lets you date the events of this book around it and you're allowed one of those where you have a way within the story of the book to say hey this is after this event so now you know when this book is taking place right and the several thousand millennia after that event yeah yeah right that's that's the problem with with necron dates it's like it doesn't matter because we're gonna this is gonna take such a long time frame anyway that yeah and then like there's other ones though like Eric's talking about where I am pretty sure that cracking teeth was the 30k sword that Lehman Russ used and he clearly calls out a sword that has giant teeth of a kraken down it that he picked up from whatever battle he was talking about at the time in the heresy and he couldn't place it because the sword itself is much older and appears to be some other Relic from a different Society yeah if any stabs Oregon with it and I didn't care what it was anymore now it's just funny yeah like it wasn't like if you didn't know what the sword was you weren't gonna get why the scene worked yeah it picks up relics stabs man he's like he grabbed a magic sword he stabbed a ghost you're like hey that makes sense yeah and I do like that like throughout the entire book there there's additional call outs that if you know about it it's really cool but if you don't it does a job just fine yeah I don't feel like this was we're gonna sit with it long enough that it's awkward that you didn't know what this was but also like I'm not going to spend 40 pages explaining this right like if you know what this is you're gonna go hey that's cool and then move on with the story and if you don't know what that is you're gonna go I don't know what that is and then we're gonna move on with the story it doesn't detract anything but if you get it then it's cool but if you don't you're not going to be like I don't know what they're talking about I don't understand what's happening yeah I was gonna say actually from someone who has a lot more or experience I took notes of like all the things that get called out that are from external things that are like wink Winks there's very few like we've named them all essentially it's like those the catachan jungle monsters and then just you know naming different factions when he's summoning them to battle okay those are like core level he he summons a data Smith in a bunch of robots for admac you see those those are part of 40K right that's true that is true homunculus in pain engines some would say we did that last episode wow chronosense active going back in time so you got a couple notes do you remember what was being said when Oregon was constantly going back during the necron court like the the groundhog day it was like Groundhog Day I didn't keep track of all the members of the court because I Knew by this point that it didn't matter so like I didn't bother it is a scene where your first read through what you're supposed to pick up from it is some stuff about how necron law works and that orokin is doing something very impressive that is not thought to be possible and that trousin is vaguely aware of what's occurring he's determined to win this debate that every time he makes what is essentially a logical misstep he's like nope running it back starting all over which is hysterical and that's a theme throughout I actually think one of the most horrifying parts of the book is right at the end when trans is at the gate and orokin shows up pleading with him not to open it in Oregon and trans is like it took you 300 years to dig yourself out of the ground you look like a mess Americans like No 2 122 years of digging into rock every time I dug into something hard I had to rewind time back to the start and try a different route at the foot of the stairway was a wretched creature gaunt and skeletal battered and encrusted with minerals until its body was the color of a necrotic limb exposed wires in the fractured death mask buzzed with electrical glow its fingers if one could cause such worn and stubby things fingers had been scraped to Nubs that leaked hydraulic fluid the spine Twisted sideways in an s-curve so it could only support Itself by leaning on a staff capped with a starburst pattern the creature paused trying to find words or breath open do not do it treason laughed a booming sound that became lost in the high volts playing at your old tricks Oregon I think we are far past that look at yourself look at your fingers dug yourself out did you Oregon hobbled up another step then another do not open it you do not want what is inside took you well took you three centuries to dig out I suppose to Millennia said Oregon he levered himself upward still far from treason 2122 years needed to escape to make it here each time I dug for soft rock when I became blocked I traveled back retressed steps do not trust him cackled that is a [ __ ] horrifying existence 2122 years of digging at dirt yeah and like the soul-crushing thing of like hundreds of years of doing it only to have to rewind time yeah it's pretty ridiculous that is one of the scenes though like immediately after that that kind of you know like you're like what the hell treyson kind of thing I think that's great if we want to talk about the climax that was like a weird shift all of a sudden you're like something is not right here because this dude is not yeah yeah I love that because it's foreshadowed well on like a reread of trozen is constantly the one listening to the music of the world paying attention to everything and oracle's the one shunning it all other than bashani and vishani is clearly attempting to [ __ ] with orokin and like is clearly a benevolent Force but Orkin discovers it and figures it out and that's like what is revealed at this twist scene except trousen has been Enchanted by the subconscious drawing signal that's under laid under the the normal song of serenade the deceiver put there and this is the reveal of like you thought it was going to be him trying to stop crazy origin at the end and it's like no Oregon has to stop trozen because he's the one who's been taken over by the song and is currently Enchanted yeah and one of the weird aspects of that is like how much hurricane is basically a simp for vishani oh man oh man oh my God like so awkward the sex scene yeah I've never done this before you have to open yourself up to me to become one yeah yeah I could get a virus I don't know I heard about that in in PE class [Laughter] I've never been to peace class okay that's also something that on my second read I enjoyed just absurd amount of organ and trezin are old [ __ ] they were old when they got pitched into the forge they were old for necrons which is something to always remember of like necrons die by 50 no matter what if they're lucky yeah yeah but then you go and you see like they're you know throwing people through walls and like punching dinosaurs and it's like these two old guys that are fighting in a museum throwing [ __ ] on the ground throwing Pottery on the ground can also like punch dinosaurs this is such a weird dichotomy fight scenes they talk about how like in the flesh time this would have been embarrassing two old scribes going at each other yeah it would have looked comical to Outsiders but both of them have the strength of you know machines now super scrawny I've only ever read a book kind of people what's outside what's grass and they're like just going at it and it's like if they were flesh this would be much more of like a hysterical slap fight but because they're machines they're like hey but what if we just blow apart an entire wing of a building so I guess in the action scene thing to move us around yet again how'd you feel about the second act with them on the planet working together leading up to the orc Invasion part and that huge action piece I think it made sense I mean I enjoy watching them just kind of like have to suffer hanging out with each other because they like hate each other but like they reach a point where they don't neither one of them would ever say oh we're friends but they both have some amount of respect yeah they've also reached that stage where it's like but we're gonna hang out and sit in a cafe and watch people do things I mean I can understand why you know Oregon is like hey the Orcs were coming in I need your help because I can't wake up enough people on my own to do this without triggering all of the alarms people are going to ask a whole lot of questions about that but if you do some and I do some then it'll be fine it's one of those where it's like they both know that they're going to be Trey each other yeah but they each think like oh I'll be able to get a one up on you they both think okay the other one's gonna betray me but I'll betray him better yeah they'll never see it coming and it's like okay but you guys have been doing this for like centuries now yeah you would think you would understand but nope and it's great that they don't no it it really does add to the to the story that they're both constantly like planning for each other's betrayal and then trying to decide how they can betray that like it's just he's gonna betray me and so instead I'm gonna do and it's like you both know you're gonna do this and it's one of those like after it happens they're like so how dare you yeah I can't believe you've done that and it's it's like you know that they were going to do it you can't believe that they beat you on it yes it's not about that it happened it's that they did it better than you did kind of thing yes yes what did you think of the actual orc Invasion scenes like that big action sequence in space and on the I have opinion it's a leading question it's the leading question objection um I don't hate it I thought it was was interesting Orcs are just such an odd race to begin with that it's just odd they're just they're good fun yeah they're just constantly excited to fight anything at all if it moves they're gonna fight it like I will highly recommend the gazwellthraka book prophet of the what if anyone is actually interested in Orcs after this book because Orcs are amazing that book is so well written for that the audio version yeah it's like it's multiple people for a different chapter it's incredibly well done so like here in infinite Divine this action scene takes too long this is a story about necrons and stuff in them going back and forth this is a story about the planet I accept the organ Invasion being a key part of it and or having some Limelight I like that the Orcs in this have good scenes my problem is this scene drags especially on rereads I did not find that at all it is such a long scene I think the problem is you have the entire space battle followed by on the ground then back to space then the water portion then the underwater portion with the necron fight yeah and it is like start to finish in the audiobook this is like an hour and a half long action scene and there's good moments throughout it the trays in revealing that like oh yeah I could have killed a garden in like one shot with a single Doom Scythe but I'd rather waste all of these resources and keep it the little things like that are fun in it but oh my God it's so long I don't know I I enjoyed it Jenny did this was your first time you don't have the this is why I'm interested in her opinion on it from a first time because on my third read it was a slog but I can't remember on my first read how I felt about it I mean it is like when you put all of it together it is it is a long sequence of events but I don't feel like they're boring events and it makes sense that like the box says you've got like two days and the Orcs are here and like you've got to do all of this stuff back to back there's you know there's no the ticking Time Bomb element is good yeah you know so much happening because they gotta fight in space they gotta fight on land then you have to get Oregon to the lands because you know obviously the whole point is he's not just going to stay in Space the whole time so you got to give him a reason to do that and I think the reason I enjoy it is exactly what you brought up of there's a time and that's such a thing that doesn't matter to necrons that like no you can't put together this intricate [ __ ] Century long whatever you can't just let the enemy die out just because they lived long enough yes this is a time frame all of the things have to happen enforcing a ticking clock element on someone who would solve most problems with waiting yeah I will say that because because we were doing the audiobook and I didn't have the like audiobook timeline in front of me I had no idea how much longer was left in the book and I think that's on the first read-through it may not bother you at all I think my problem is knowing the action scene already makes it much more of a slog of oh God there is so much left in this action scene still and we're only at like the halfway point of the book I know this is a pseudo dead end point like this is the thing that goes wrong see and I didn't know scene or the door closes and nobody gets anything at all was just kind of like what because that it really was a battle to build it up if we had stopped and been like hey do you think this is the final battle I probably would have been like yeah I could see younger it goes on and then for nobody to get anything at all and it should not be the final battle it was just like what that's hysterical then nobody gets anything at all and like again you know because they're necrons when the box is like oh it'll be another 100 000 years it's like whatever that's just an inconvenience but like just for them to get so close like literally like to touch the open door frame and then nobody gets anything at all is just it's kind of amazing so on a similar vein thoughts on the final battle sequence I really am whole time they're fighting it's they're both a very clear like not trained for this I am not this is not my thing I have no idea what I'm doing we're just kind of winging it and they're fighting like a literal God and it's like yeah I am not ready for this at all but here we are so like all of the the tricks that I know aren't really gonna work on this thing I gotta try them anyways but yeah because neither one of of them is like a general or a battle train like they had people for that and those people are not here and they're like this is not what I do I don't enjoy this we're gonna try because I don't have a choice so on my second read I enjoyed the orc battle sequence I did Skip around on the final one though I'm actually the opposite that's where I think it comes down to taste in the battle I think it does when you don't know the end I don't think I had a problem with the orc battle the first time through I can't remember that long ago but I the final battle I still like Jen did I still enjoyed my third reread of it because it's such a great finish for showing off orokin skill as like a tactician and being able to do time manipulation and having to stretch his ability to control things his issues with micromanaging all of that is shown off there Great Character stuff trozen has less to do in my opinion other than the fun Pokeball moments and the I hope you brought an army you think so little of my dear colleague I brought five which is just the greatest follow-thicking trays in line in this book like I said I still enjoyed it but it was also easier because on my second read I actually read it the first time was on audio the second I used words and eyes and did that thing so it was easier for me to kind of like do the skimming of like I know this part and I know the end result and like I'll just gloss by it quicker so like I it's not that I didn't enjoy it I just kind of passed through that section a bit faster but yeah I mean there are definitely great Parts like the pokeballs but also trading showing up with 10 clones thought I might need one so I brought 10. yeah the pre-programmed glitch card that already looked like him so it doesn't take time to transfer right and the fact that Oregon is like wow I've definitely had this nightmare before yes all of these Traditions coming out of a hole nope we're good thanks yeah so like I did enjoy it I wasn't sure if I think yeah maybe it is one of those the first time through if you don't know like the time frames of like how much is left and all that stuff you can enjoy both of them on the second time through maybe it's like because they are different fight sequence themes yes that is very true although to appreciate the aftermath of the orc fight scene yes that's what I was just going to transition us into I'm so glad you did it because because there are technically humans on the planet when the Orcs invade and the Orcs make it to the planet's surface so treason is responsible for dealing with the Orcs on the planet's surface so he does so and the humans see him do this because you know Teresa's like I don't care what are they going to do to mean nothing these are like kind of back water or area human type thing they don't have like authorities basically no human in the Imperium will ever see in astorities in their life is a key thing it doesn't matter where you live unless you are on like literally a planet where a chapter is located you will go your entire lifetime only hearing about the emperor's angels and never seeing one yeah I mean and it's like a village you know it's not like it's a planet like holy Terror where it's like there's literally only buildings everywhere there's no land left you know so it's it's just like a a nothing Village fantasy town and so treyson saves them from the Orcs And they're like the giant metal man saved us he must have been a Space Marine because that's what Space Marines are giant Metal Men so you get the silver skulls chapter so then they build a statue of treason it's like it really does like yeah no the giant metal man came from the sky and saved us from the Orcs sounds like a Space Marine and then I'm like the stained glass window it's trazen is a hooded librarian with the scald Motif and he has all the Silver Skulls behind him and they're saving the people from the Orcs it's so [ __ ] good and then the Inquisition is like no you can't have this such race it just takes the statue like it's my statue I'm putting it in my house what are you gonna do about it did you have a statue of yourself Oregon right I only wonder if any cultures worship you as a living Saint which is like the greatest [ __ ] brag and very much I'll like he doesn't really care that much other than being able to say that yes the brag is why he cares not the saving the humans the fact that he accidentally made people worship him and he is so high on it and then Oregon is a complete dick when he's being petty after the gene sealer yeah I do enjoy the uh like some time passed after that stuff happened and they go back to the library area and his window and there's some vandals breaking it and and Oregon's just like oh look crazy like son of a [ __ ] yeah because that's that's right after tries and lays the gene stealer timer to [ __ ] with Orkin and then Oregon comes and visits him and confronts him slams down the gene stealer claw throws the arm at him he's like what are you doing and then they go back out from his Library under the stained glass uh Cathedral and as they go out he realized that someone vandalized and broke his stained glass window and Oregon's like they probably thought it looked ugly yeah it's not shown but you know that Oregon did what treyson did where he like calculates and like relives throwing that rock a thousand times before throwing it oh absolutely yeah he played that in like Ultra slow motion so he could save her every moment his Chrono sense was dialed all the way back oh way back uh and those types of things just constantly kept happening and that's why like it kept feeling a spider spy comic over and over again and I just loved that I love the payoffs of it during the coup you got us a box seat for a coup right and the whole fact that it happened when it did because like the Imperium ships warped in like 100 years early or whatever and Drazen has been denying doing the gene sealer prank on Oregon until they're running away in Oregon's like is that the one you threw at me and he's like at the time I didn't know they were disease factors so you did try to kill me I didn't say that if I wanted you done I would have used more than one yeah I have a bunch of them flake which then has the payoff in the final fight of opening up the one that has like a hundred of them yeah that gets in like the whole exterminatus sequence in general like Jen on your first read-through I guess how did you feel about like that section in the book with like the lead up of like finding out the planet is going to get destroyed by the Imperium and like the payoff of what occurred so like yeah they have the console at that moment yeah it's the triac praetorians have taken over which is a whole thing I'm not going to bother explaining to you but the police take over yeah yes scheduled to be destroyed that same day so you guys are really gonna have to figure this out like pretty quickly but they never say why and you just kind of assume like well that's just yeah that's just Imperium that's just how it works yeah the Imperium just do that you know like you say something wrong and your whole planet gets destroyed because that's just how the Imperium works so then you have like a really long time frame in between where they end up doing a whole bunch of random other stuff so like you know that the planet is scheduled to be destroyed but they don't really kind of cover it like they drop a couple of hints but it really just seems more like I don't want to like yeah it just seems more like yeah like the humans say stuff but it sounds more like just like humans telling fairy tales and not like and also like oh this is just giving us a vague timeline reference yeah okay fine and so then they're at the theater and it all starts going down and it's like this is the result of treason deciding to [ __ ] with Oregon like this this you are causing the problem that made it so you two had to work together to solve this before the planet gets disturb Droid but you are the reason the planet is getting destroyed because you two had to work together is right it's just hysterical the problem occurs of we know it will get extermin honest you two are forced to work together because they're forced to worry together tresin plants the gene stealer to [ __ ] with Oregon because they're being petty yeah there's which causes the exterminatus I do enjoy that aspect of like future site type thing but we don't fully plan out all of like these are all of the reasons that it became what it is yeah it's the imperfect look of the future and like Orkin can see multiple Futures and traysen came with the cloak too of like right picking a future where you don't get your head caved in so yeah I mean like if Oregon had killed the first Gene stealer there wouldn't have been any left to start the whole problem but he didn't but if treason wouldn't have released the gene stealer in the first place yeah it's just a prank bro or is an entire planet that he was very upset at the idea of being destroyed which is the key aspect of this is the tragedy of he is the only one who cares about these random people he enjoys them and he's the one who causes their destruction because he couldn't help himself from pulling a prank yeah I was gonna say like earlier you had said like oh he doesn't destroy and I was like well he does he absolutely does destroy an entire planet not on purpose though I'll give you that I guess talking about this is one more for me I guess I don't know if you guys even like care enough about 40K lower for this aspect necrons and spells do you have any opinions on how the necron quote-unquote magic happens it seemed fine yeah it wasn't fully explained enough because it was always from the perspective of Dresden who just doesn't give a [ __ ] or oricon who's so deep into it that it you have no frame of reference also it was just kind of like okay this is their Wizarding wand and that lets them do the thing did you have any feelings about it John when you read it I think Eric is kind of right like it's you get it from one of two points of view and one of them doesn't care because he can't do it and one of them is like a super wizard so he's not he's not gonna explain it you know like he just does it so this is a Viewpoint of someone who cares about necron lore all right then and how the warp and normal space interact in 40K I think it's wonderfully handled and is an amazing way to show off an aspect of necrons something the necrons are often described as is the masters of the materium which means the species that is most mastered the real Universe they can't deal with the warp they vaguely understand it it is outside of them they are a psychically dead race they're trainers the Katan or gods of the material world they are not warp Gods like all the other ones they are this universe as gods and God's in air quotes still because of like not a spiritual God but like an all-powerful being type thing right but for everyone else they draw upon the Imperium and have to like use warp magic to do things but to the necrons they just cast spells they put their hands in a certain position Channel energy in a certain way of the universe and can cause things to occur like time changing or anti-matter jetting out of their hand or a fundamental force of the universe hitting someone things that are within the scope of the real but to us appear to be magic and are essentially magic but it is science to them it is right to them it is this is how you control the universe this is the laws of the universe you just don't understand them yet yeah and it gets into the whole the famous the the Sci-Fi quota anything sufficially Advanced is essentially magic exactly which I love that idea for necrons of we have the psychomancers the Plasma series any form of cryptic and they all have magic in air quotes but it doesn't work like psychic powers do it is literally just technology so far beyond anyone else's understanding that it appears to be magic I see what you're saying I don't think this book had enough you saying that and thinking about it in retrospect I can see a lot of those points coming up and it like you point to it and it's like oh I understand what you're saying but like in the book itself on its own you kind of get glimpses of it of like yeah there's especially from Oregon where like he goes through like permutations of mathematical formulas and and geometric representations and it's like that's not how like warp magic would generally work exactly he uses the real instead of the unreal to do things that it's something that I was wondering if it comes across or not without the external information I didn't think it would I was just wondering no not enough to really pinpoint but enough to be like yeah okay it kind of makes sense there was also some of the like magic stuff from the eldari the farseer yes and that also wasn't really explained in any way so like I think the focus of this book wasn't really on like the specifics of how I would agree that this book comes across much more as like this universe has magic and now we're moving on yeah it doesn't really get into the like specifics of who's doing magic how and why personally I don't feel like it would really fit here I feel like you would spend a lot of time talking about like your magic system in a buddy cop movie right it's like I don't really want to spend the first 20 minutes of my buddy cop movie having one of them explain how a gun works I just need to know that they have it and that we're gonna use it and we're moving on because they didn't really explain like a lot of this stuff like they have a lot of artifacts they have a lot of capes and headdresses and like each one does something and they don't really get into why it just does and we're moving on and I don't personally need a an in-depth description of the history of the obliterator right he has an obliterator it obliterates I actually appreciate that trousin doesn't even know where he got his obliterator he's like I don't know who made this but it's really good at caving and Katan skulls yeah yeah like I don't like we don't cover like they have a lot of gadgets they use we don't cover the history we don't cover why it works how it works you know that there's some kind of cool probably a history behind it probably some kind of crazy Universal Power behind it Orkin puts his hands in cool signs magic comes out good enough yeah for this book because like you said this is kind of like buddy cop the the adventure or whatever it wouldn't really fit to go in depth and putting together the magical systems that yeah and that's because like there are some books that do that fantastically that like here's the the underlying systems the foundation of the this world's and universe is Magic Brandon Sanderson the main draw to anything he makes Is His World building and spell systems and then popcorn writing right right so yeah I mean I think that the magic system doesn't really need to be done like it can be done Brandon Sanderson does a great job of building that up but that like the whole book there is kind of like building that section up if you can't devote the book layout to it it kind of feels it becomes like a fan fiction kind of thing at least yeah some of the other 40K books get this like I'm gonna explain something really [ __ ] cool and it's like yeah I was a teenager once too I remember when I would have thought that was the raddest thing yeah I appreciate that this didn't go into that type of thing and it just kind of gave hints here and there that like if you know about it like you explaining it I see the hints I understand it but didn't need to be any more than it was yeah that's not really like a point of this all right I guess as one last thing what is everyone's favorite scene of the book okay I'll go first my favorite scene is with the Scribe and I think that's probably a lot of people's favorites it's my favorite too it just does such a fantastic job of showing the lack of time frame from a necron but also showing like the lack of not care but like awareness yeah awareness because frozen lake is like yeah I made your life better I helped you get your family stable jobs and education and you've got you know you've been doing great and all that stuff and the Scribe knows that he's got the brain parasite and you can basically get the understanding that like he's like yeah it's still better to have that and live the life that I'm living than to not have it and go back to what the Imperium does to normal people yes the Mind shackle scarabs yeah so it really is one of of those like difference in expectations between like a normal human and a necron is just so put into a reality that you could understand with the scene of the Scribe and it does end really well of yeah it was the most painful thing ever but at least it was quick I enjoyed the sense that like trezen doesn't see that time like other people do and I just play to get your knee replaced last week and the scribes like that was like 10 years ago and he's like oh well all right then I guess it has been a little while he's like oh I guess yeah like he just doesn't even notice that it's been like years and yeah and like doesn't pay attention to this old guy is when it's brought up he's like oh yeah you look like you're about to die [Laughter] yeah I guess I just actually haven't looked at you in the last 20 years dang dude oh what happened that's wild [Laughter] yeah I just I really do like that scene I mean there's a bunch of one-liners that are just amazing I have grown oh did no service and it is not a question of willingness younger man in the librarian wish to move up and they cannot while I hold my post I also enjoy the like Duality between treyson saying go sit at your desk because he doesn't want to have to carry a body up the stairs yes [Laughter] for me I think I'm gonna go with that final scene at the end where like treason and Oregon have like had this this ride and like they've hated each other and they've tried to kill each other and now they've had to fight a star God together and like Oregon has come down from his high and treyson is like actually concerned truly concerned like I really hope that this didn't kill you I hope that you're not like dying are you gonna be okay can I get you out of here he's not like Oregon's like don't touch me and treason is actually like trying to respect his personal space and like you and I don't really like each other and we'll probably be trying to kill each other next week but at this moment I really do hope that you're okay have you suffered damage there was no answer my dear Oregon knelt and put a hand on his quaking shoulder plate don't touch me the diviner wailed trying to shrink back into the masonry don't touch me don't touch me it's all right friend it's all right trazen held up his palms to show he was no threat I also enjoy the reveal of like even in that moment with all that honest care he was still stabbing him in the back by taking the sixth Shard these two will never change their opinions on each other they will always hate each other they are so opposite and so much like they hate each other but there's a respect that like they're both good at what they do that they kind of care for each other at a certain aspect like if you didn't exist who else would I hate what would I spend all my time on the Batman and Joker I was really happy to see the epilogue yes I remember after your first read and we were discussing this in the car and that was one that you specifically mentioned of you were so glad they don't become friends and that everything goes back to status quo if they didn't learn a lesson I love that the ending had that honest emotional care after all of the [ __ ] that they've been through but they're still [ __ ] bags but I still am so glad that there was the epilogue of these are undying Immortal [ __ ] bags that'll never [ __ ] change yes I do think part of it is like how dare anyone but me kill you right like I'm not gonna let you kill him because I'm gonna kill him because who are you to kill him you just showed up five minutes ago I've hated him for years yeah I've hated them since before the transference which okay mine are assigned this actually bothers me but it has an explanation within the book their memories make no sense before transference and they should realize it but obviously because their minds have been altered by the deceiver they aren't aware of it right traysen is and was even as a neck around here an Overlord of the nihilic dynasty who ruled over planets all their own in their own sector of space origin is from the south Tech Dynasty and is the high High Mage whatever his official title is of the Sao Tech traysen would never be the one to drag orc into the furnace and they should have been aware that it was something [ __ ] with their heads because it would have been a South Tech person yeah I see what you're saying I think it just kind of like puts in I think it makes it more obvious on retrospect of like clearly the memories from before are not real that's not something that you should Bank on I understand that you hold on to it because that's all you have okay but enough distraction for my favorite scene Eric stole it so instead I'll go with my second favorite which is the opening scene and if you take any lesson from the infinite and the Divine with everything we've discussed about the lesson is exudites need to exist in 40K I want my goddamn laser dinosaurs I mean it fits well enough with anything else but uh I thought you were gonna go into something of like it kind of like ends on the this is a wheel and the wheel turns ever on and no I don't give a [ __ ] about Wheel of Time no one cares like oh we'll bring it back to the original aldari interaction at the start of the book where it talks about the and I was like oh no he just he doesn't actually care about any of them he just wants [ __ ] dinosaurs I thought he was gonna go with another change always stay toxic it's my motto not the books motto [Laughter] but no yeah the second one would be give me dinosaurs I can see that all right and on that note we're done with the discussion however stick around for a second this discussion was brought to you by our lovely patrons who decided on this episode for the season our patrons keep us running and without them you wouldn't get any of this uh so normally we do a once a month shout out that we say over the end credits of the audio version but we're doing it right now because this is a patron decided episode and these ones have helped out quite a bit they are danic tomian Jaden Jeff stumbo Rhett Gyarados Cameron R cool kicks canner Johnson grundle bundle squerson fizzled Dr lace and Andrew Pope thank you all yeah definitely thank you for supporting the show hopefully you enjoyed the uh and decision for this episode and in addition we have our lovely producers who pay us way too much money to keep us going they are Daniel McKinnon Robert teleno yon geisi and Michael Sullivan thank you all thanks for keeping my husband occupied so he doesn't uh continually fill your head with 40K knowledge that you don't care about well I mean that still happens clearly at least to direct it all right on that loving note I think that does it for us this week please make sure to do the YouTube niceties if you're on YouTube special thanks again to all of our patrons not just those we shouted out and feel free to join us in the YouTube comments and tell us what you thought about the book because I want this to feel more like a book club and not like a lecture I honestly would like to see other people's opinions on the book so don't be shy we actually want to read these comments remember to tell Brad that he has no taste and that the orc battle scene was awesome but yeah definitely let us know it was fun it was a great read and let's see what other people have to say on it and I mean we're definitely going to do another one at some point and let's get out of here for the week sounds good [Music] thank you

Channel: Poorhammer

Views: 44,504

Keywords: Warhammer 40k, 40k lore, lore, book club, the infinite and the divine, necrons, genestealer cults, orks, tyranids, eldar, asyurani, exodites

Id: puQx2-n5KHg

Length: 81min 35sec (4895 seconds)

Published: Thu Jun 08 2023