The History Of The Marvel Vs DC Rivalry

Marvel and DC are two companies that have taken their legions of heroes from the pages of comic books to cinema screens neither side is lacking in devoted fans but what is their relationship like with one another these two companies have had a seemingly bitter and public rivalry for years but how much of it is just for show and how much of it is pure unadulterated hatred from smear campaigns to failed crossover comics there have certainly been some notable moments in this decades-long few our DC and Marvel really mortal enemies or is this just part of their fictions [Music] like all good superheroes Marvel and DC each have their own origin story about how they went from humble comic book publishers to pop culture icons it might be hard to imagine in today's superhero saturated market but there was a time when superhero comic books didn't exist it wasn't until the 1930s that costumed crime fighter's first started catching on the time which is now known as the Golden Age of comic books in 1938 things were grim people were feeling down and struggling to make ends meet following the Great Depression and this was even before the global tragedy of world war ii even began back then DC Comics was known as Detective Comics and they kicked off the superhero craze in groundbreaking fashion that same year they released Action Comics number one which was the first time audiences were introduced to the Man of Steel himself this revolutionary content coincided perfectly with what was going on in the real world here was a working-class guy who used his considerable powers to help others in their times of need the character of Clark Kent was inspiring and he was pretty much responsible for defining what it meant to be a superhero while there are now many amazing heroes out there the importance of Superman providing the foundation for superhero comics shouldn't be overlooked most people don't realize that Superman came precariously close to never making his debut writer Jerry Siegel and artist Joe Shuster worked furiously for years to create the character and get him published but would end up in a bitter feud with one another the two one spot so much that Shuster ended up burning their existing body of work before they were able to patch things up coming up with a great hero is one thing but Siegel and Shuster truly had to defy the odds and go through a long arduous and frustrating battle in order to see their creation in print soon other iconic heroes joined the DC cast of characters including Batman the flash Green Lantern and Wonder Woman Detective Comics would eventually change to national comics then national periodical publications but as early as 1940 people were calling them DC Comics it wasn't until 1997 that they made the name DC Comics official well DC was filling pages with caped crusaders they were also providing inspiration for other comic creators DC's colossal library of heroes was what inspired a publisher named Martin Goodman to get into the superhero game he founded timely comics in 1939 which would eventually become the Marvel Comics we know today Goodman was determined to cash in on the growing superhero trend and published Marvel Comics number one in 1939 this was the first time audiences were introduced to characters like the Human Torch and Namor the Submariner it was a huge success and the first two runs of the comics sold over 900,000 copies soon Marvel created other heroes including vision and Captain America and carved out their own niche in the burgeoning superhero business at this time both Marvel and DC were doing well though DC definitely had the upper hand it seemed like superheroes were here to stay and the pages were filled with the exploits of attractive virtuous and of course patriotic characters fans liked to hype up the marvel and DC rivalry but during the Golden Age of comic books both companies were doing just fine there was enough room for both DC and Marvel and there was no reason to suspect animosity between the two of them comic books were no longer just for kids they were cheaper than traditional books making them accessible in these tough economic times people started turning off the radio and turning the pages of comic books instead they were a form of escapism that people really resonated with at first but of course things wouldn't stay so perfect or profitable forever later on in the 1940s comic craters ran into a serious problem people just weren't interested in seeing the same old heroes anymore and comic cells came screeching to a halt if Marvel and DC wanted to survive they were going to have to figure out a new strategy both companies decided to diversify in order to keep the bills paid while they worked out a way to recapture interest in superheroes each company produced science fiction horror westerns and many other genres of comics as well which helped them survive past the initial superhero craze they'd been swept up in and gave them another shot at capturing their audience's attention but in the 1950s the comic-book industry encountered it's very own villains who were determined to bring it down in addition to superhero comics horror comics were popular and some people were concerned about the gore shown in series like Tales from the Crypt all of a sudden parents weren't sure about their kids buying comic books and some very loud voices threatened to bring down the entire industry in 1953 the government created the United States Senate Subcommittee on juvenile delinquency this agency was determined to end juvenile delinquency in all its forms and decided to investigate the threat of comic books disability psychiatrist Frederic wertham was an outspoken opponent of comic books which he claimed were a major factor in kids behaving badly the legendary Stan Lee had it out with worth of numerous times and let's just say that the two held some very different viewpoints on the merits of comic books wertham spend time working with juvenile delinquents and noticed that most of his patients read comic books and thereby determined that there was a connection between crime and comics Stan Lee countered that most kids read comic books and managed to stay on the right side of the law he sarcastically said that since most juvenile offenders also drink milk perhaps the government should ban that too but wertham was so fervent in his beliefs about the dangers of comic books that he created his own book called seduction of the innocent it alleged that violent media including comics was leading vulnerable youths astray parents were terrified of the consequences wertham Spokeo and his work fuelled their anti comic-book paranoia according to wertham female characters like under woman were terrible influences on young girls he claims she encouraged girls to cast aside their roles as future wives and mothers in fact wertham also condemned male heroes and accused Batman and Robin of being in a sinful romantic relationship with one another however time would eventually vindicate the comic-book industry wertham ended up being exposed for fabricating and exaggerating data and even lied about the content of the comics he referenced despite all of this at the time his work was taken very seriously wertham testified in front of the senate and stated that he believed the comic book industry to be a bigger threat than Adolf Hitler although many parents believed in wertham the government decided against officially pursuing the issue but DC and Marvel still weren't safe out of autumns work another challenge would emerge in the form of the comics code Authority or the CCA the idea was that the CCA was run by an independent entity who'd review comics for content and give them a seal of approval of course comic companies were free to submit or publish comics without the seal of the CCA the only problem with this was that no outlets wanted to stock non CCA approved comics so opting out of the CCA wasn't really an option for either DC or marvel this tied their hands in a lot of ways and it didn't just affect superhero comics other genres such as westerns horror and romance were decimated by these new limitations Batman had always been a dark and brooding hero but now he had to have a forced female love interest in Vicki Vale and went from a gun-toting crime fighter to a much less serious and kid-friendly character comic books went from something designed to appeal to people of all ages to something only children would be interested in this was truly a dark time for the comic book industry and things were about to get worse for Marvel Comics in particular in 1957 they lost their distributor and were scrambling to find a way to get their books out they ended up making a deal with independent news which also distributed DC Comics Marvel could keep going but they'd been dealt a blow comic creators like Stanley Steve Ditko and Jack Kirby had been cranking out characters but now they were limited to eight titles per month DC definitely had the upper hand at this point but Marvel wasn't out of it yet and they were about to change the superhero game forever despite the strict CCA regulations comic book creators were still managing to find ways to be innovative at the time the vast majority of superheroes were adults with maybe a teenage sidekick here and there but Marvel's Stan Lee and Steve Ditko decided to create a teenage superhero you might know today as spider-man not only was his alter-ego Peter Parker a high schooler but he had to deal with regular teenage problems like talking to girls and getting to class on time superheroes had spent so long existing under certain established tropes and spider-man simply defied what it meant to be a superhero even Marvel was skeptical of spider-man but agreed to let Lee and Ditko publish him in the last issue of their amazing fantasy series so in August 1962 spider-man appeared in amazing fantasy number 15 and readers immediately wanted more the issue became one of Marvel's highest selling comics of all time and now spider-man had the numbers to prove his popularity many people associate Stan Lee with Marvel Comics and this has been true since long before he started making movie cameos while many people are responsible for the success of Marvel Comics Stan Lee was always interested in taking his characters off the pages and into television and movies he poised himself to be the face of Marvel and started his own column called Stan's soapbox which let him interact with fans on a whole different level even his now iconic sign off excelsior was something he developed to set himself apart from the sea of other comic book creators he would use these columns to talk about everything from the comic book industry to current events and fans really resonated with his attempts to connect with them it had only be a matter of time before Stan Lee became a true hero by staring down the CCAA and defying their rigid set of rules the CC a limited everything from the size of Gunsmoke to the appearance of make-believe creatures like ghouls and werewolves with very specific rules and regulations they also included plenty of vague and open to interpretation role including banning any violation of good taste indecency and it's this rule Stanley ran afoul of in 1971 the United States Department of Health Education and Welfare approached Marvel with a request they wanted Stanley to create an anti-drug comic book and he agreed to do so this led to him creating a Spider Man storyline where Spidey encourages kids to say no to drugs naturally this three-part story depicts the dangers of drugs but the CCA still wasn't happy about it none of their rules forbid drug use specifically but they claimed this spells short of their decency requirements and refused to give their seal of approval to the issue but Stanley refused to back down he was tired of their strict regulations and decided to publish it anyways according to Stanley he knew there was nothing wrong or inappropriate with his comic and was sure he'd be vindicated after it was released the amazing spider-man number 96 through 98 was published without the approval of the CCA which sent a ripple of shock through the comic book community and this includes DC Comics DC Comics had carmine infantino called out Lee and Marvel for defying the code and stated that DC would never do such a thing but shockingly the CCA was cowed by the move and realized they'd perhaps gone too far they amended their code to allow storylines involving drugs and addiction as long as it was shown in a negative light right after this DC decided to put out their very own comic Green Lantern Green Arrow number 85 it told the story of Green Arrow's pal Roy speedy Harper who struggles with addiction this was considered to be a big moment for DC Comics which up until now tried desperately to conform to the CCA and had watered down their heroes substantially their anti-drug comics stood out as being much darker and more mature than the content they'd been creating the really interesting thing here is that the anti-drug Green Lantern comic was actually written prior to the anti-drug spider-man comic writer Denny O'Neil new Green Arrow was on the verge of being cancelled so he decided to take the comic in a riskier direction however DC was worried about running afoul of the CCA so they refused to publish it but after Stanley stood up to this CA and the rules were changed they decided to go ahead and release their own anti-drug comic according to artist Neal Adams their comic provided a much more realistic depiction of the dangers of addiction compared to the spider-man version he believes things might have gone very differently if DC had made the first move and upend the ones to receive all of the attention and praise for standing strong in the face of the CCA Marvel had taken a huge risk and DC was left struggling to catch up but that doesn't mean that the snowbirds don't fly ark was overlooked and won a Shazam award for best individual story and New York Mayor John Lindsay wrote a letter to DC praising them for tackling such an important issue DC may have been a little bit late to the game on this one but they learned an important lesson about taking risks and portraying non-traditional themes and characters although the CCA had changed they simply couldn't adapt quickly enough to the times or the needs of the comic book consumer they no longer commanded the respect they once did and stores gradually stopped using their seal to decide whether or not to stock a comic in 2001 Marvel Comics announced they'd no longer be submitting their comics for approval and instead devised their own rating system a decade later in 2011 DC Comics followed suit by also ditching the CCA in favor of their own rating system which was similar to Marvel's one day later their last patron Archie Comics also dropped the CCA which then cease to exist the war between comic creators and the CCA was long and arduous but eventually the CCA lost in the 1960s the famed DC and marvel rivalry began Stanley was working to make a name for himself and Marvel Comics and started to feel as though other comic creators were copying marbled characters given his popularity and his Stan's soapbox column he had plenty of outlets for expressing this opinion one fan wrote to League calling DC Comics brand F and the name ended up sticking around Lee responded by calling DC his ill-advised competitors and rumors of a rivalry between the two comic companies heightened Lee also said that Marvel produces content for intelligent people unlike other publishers later in 1966 Lee would claim he wasn't talking about DC when discussing brand and instead was taking a swipe at all other comic book companies outside of Marvel DC fired back but in more tongue-in-cheek ways in adventure comics number 350 a character called chameleon boy transforms into a giant spider in order to bring down a bad guy with a wink and a fourth-wall break he says in case a certain web-headed character thinks I'm stealing his thunder I'd like to remind him that I was changing to all sorts of weird shapes long before he walked up his first wall it was clearly calling out Stan Lee for his claims that other comics were ripping off his characters dedicated Marvel readers couldn't wait to write to Stan Lee about brand F besmirching his good name Lee responded by basically saying any publicity is good publicity and that he wasn't losing any sleep over Brandon DC responded with brave in the bold 68 which featured Batman turning into a creature called bat Hulk as a way to parody Marvel's Incredible Hulk the Marvel and DC rivalry was basically the two companies making cheeky comments at one another and surprisingly fans ate it up letters poured in encouraging Marvel and DC to speak out against their supposed opponent and for his part Stan Lee was happy to oblige if people wanted to call DC brand at all the better for him so he elevated their feud to another level with the comic not Brand X which included the tagline who says a comic has to be good this comic book satire was a hit with fans and helped cement the idea that DC and Marvel were bitter enemies DC saw marbles not Brand X and fired back with their own series of satirical titles aimed at Marvel such as the inferior 5 this rivalry may have seemed light-hearted at first but things were only going to get more serious as some of the players in the game began to change Stanley was the face of marble comics but some of his colleagues felt overshadowed by leave and believed he was taking complete credit for characters they'd helped create one of those people was Jack Kirby which is a name very familiar to comic book fans he helped create some of our favorite heroes including the Hulk the Fantastic Four and Captain America although Kirby and Lee had worked together for ages Kirby grew resentful of Lee's Fame and believed he wasn't receiving enough credit for his work so needless to say he wasn't seen as loyal to Marvel employees when he switched over to DC Comics in the 1970s Kirby got to work on a comic called mr. miracle and decided he needed a new villain so Kirby came up with an unscrupulous and money-hungry character named punky flash Minh that's widely known as a parody of Stan Lee looking at old photos of Lee it's not hard to see the resemblance between himself and his satirical comic counterpart as funky flash Minh progressed the character turned into a complete caricature of Lee much to his dismay Kirby may not have set out to make a Stan Lee character but that's exactly what he ended up doing and Stan Lee wasn't the only Marvel employee who kirby mocked on the pages of DC he also created funky flash Minh simpering servant house Roy based on Marvel employee Roy Thomas the strange thing is that as far as anyone knew Kirby and Thomas were on perfectly fine terms so nobody really knows why Kirby decided to make an unkind parody of him for funky flash Minh but of course there could have been plenty more infighting and Marvel than the general public was made aware of funky flash Minh was a man with no talents or morals who benefited from his associations in life he wasn't above using people as human shields or trying to steal into profit from the hard work of others there was absolutely no subtlety here and it's not hard to see this as a commentary on Kirby's issues with Stanley and marvel the rivalry between Marvel and DC was going full force when a surprising truce was proposed the two companies decided to put their differences aside and work on a special crossover comic it was supposed to bring a great deal of notoriety to both brands and would involve some of their most popular characters but things didn't go as planned trying to get marbles Avengers and DC's Justice League together would turn out to be a true production nightmare this was an ambitious project to say the least and both companies wouldn't settle for anything less than perfection when it came to their characters it should have been an absolute slam dunk with fans who couldn't wait to see their favorite heroes from different franchises together the story would feature our heroes traveling through time and taking on marbles Kang the Conqueror and DC's Lord of time originally it was scheduled to be released in 1983 but these two companies just couldn't get along with one another so the comics didn't end up seeing the light of day until 20 years later in 2003 getting these two longtime rivals to play nice wasn't easy and there was a serious personality clash between Marvel's Jim shooter and DC's dick Giordano Giordano preferred to be more spontaneous and hash out small details during the inking process this was a stark contrast to shooters method which was to carefully outline everything before putting ink to paper Giordano was ready to get started as soon as he had a loose plot outline but shooter refused these two just couldn't work together and as a result the whole project ended up gathering dust for years in the meantime there were some minor crossovers including spider-man and Superman Batman and The Incredible Hulk and the Teen Titans and the x-men but despite these minor mutually profitable ventures the rivalry was back and stronger than ever before both Marvel and DC blamed each other for the failure of the Justice League Avengers crossover and they weren't shy about sharing their thoughts on the matter Joe Quesada is the second longest running editor-in-chief at Marvel Comics second only to Stan Lee himself and he's never been shy about stirring the pot when it comes to the DC Feud he's been known for making inflammatory comments about beloved DC characters like Batman and Superman on so Media but how does he really feel about DC according to Quesada this feud between Marvel and DC is beneficial to both companies and it's something the fans enjoy as well about some of his more controversial comments he says I learned very quickly that they dumber the thing I said online the more hits we got and ultimately the viral message will get carried by the fans who are irate about it in a weird way making a jab at a comic book competitor has become a kind of fanservice according to Quesada he was on good terms with people over at DC including now former art director Mark Chiarello he claims the only thing he's ever been serious about is telling a good story and the rivalry is just something he considers to be in good fun we've talked at length about the feuding between Marvel and DC when it comes to the printed page but the movies are a whole other thing entirely it turns out there might be a little bit of movie magic as far as this supposed feud is concerned many Marvel fans consider the first Marvel superhero movie to be Iron Man which came out in 2008 and kicked off what we know today as the Marvel Cinematic Universe but the reality of the situation is that Marvel has a long and complicated history of trying to get their characters onto the big screen suffice it to say their movie history is a bit of a convoluted mess in the realm of superhero based movies there's no denying that DC was way ahead of the game compared to Marvel all the way back in 1951 Superman was on the big screen in Superman in the Mole Man then in 1966 we were introduced to the campy yet charming Adam West version of Batman then it was back to the Superman franchise before Batman rejoined the game in the late 80s although they weren't released by Marvel Studios which didn't exist yet films featuring Marvel characters like the x-men and spider-man were responsible for reinventing the superhero movie genre DC had been putting out movies and successful ones but they weren't as groundbreaking genre-defining as these movies based on Marvel creations DC had enjoyed their reign on the big screen but now Marvel characters were getting their time to shine when Christopher Nolan's Batman Begins was released in 2005 it assured in a new era of darker grittier superhero movies the Dark Knight trilogy was a massive box office and critical success and one some people forget about in light of some of DC's subsequent less popular superhero movies these include Jonah Hex and Green Lantern which even DC fans generally considered to be mediocre meanwhile Marvel was struggling after a long period of financial instability and was getting ready to bet everything on the idea of a massive Marvel Universe movies like Iron Man The Incredible Hulk and Thor did more than sell tickets at the box office they got people invested in the world of Marvel characters this all culminated in the 2012 movie The Avengers which earned over 1.5 billion dollars the box office in comparison when DC released Justice League in 2017 it only brought in about six hundred fifty seven million dollars not only is that not great but it was one of the most expensive movies ever made with a production budget of 300 million dollars including the cost of promoting the movie the studio needed to make at least 750 million dollars just to break even needless to say they didn't hit that target and lost an estimated 60 million dollars on the venture there were many reasons Justice League didn't do very well not the least of which was that its big-budget made it a big risk but many fans realized DC was panicking to keep pace with the success of the MCU and they had fallen terribly short in an effort to compete with the Avengers DC crammed their most popular characters together without carefully laying the groundwork the way Marvel had the colossal failure of Justice League made Marvel fans all the more confident that their brand of superhero was the best it's a shame DC didn't learn this lesson a year earlier when they released Batman V Superman dawn of Justice in 2016 it wasn't the massive box-office failure that Justice League was and actually started off with a good opening weekend in just the United States in Canada alone it had the eighth biggest opening of all time bringing in 166 million dollars speeding even The Dark Knight Rises 160 million dollar opening however the very next weekend it reported a historic drop of 81.2% word-of-mouth is thought to be the reason for this massive drop in ticket sales over the history of Marvel and DC it's clear both companies tend to excel when they take risks and go against the grain being new and innovative especially in this time of superhero fatigue is essential to staying profitable and keeping fans happy and there was a time when DC was actually ahead of Marvel when it came to being progressive particularly when it came to female comic characters for a long time women were relegated to the role of helpless damsels in distress' and DC decided that that had to change they introduced fans to the revolutionary Wonder Woman who debuted in the 1940s and it took Marvel quite a long time to catch up in comparison Carol Danvers didn't get her comic debut until 1968 this trend carried into the realm of movies as well Wonder Woman hit theaters in 2017 and made over 821 million dollars at the box office on the other hand Marvel Studios was often criticized for its portrayal of female characters and even hulk actor Mark Ruffalo complained about the lack of Black Widow merchandise it wasn't until 2018 that a female Marvel hero got equal billing to a male hero with ant-man and the wasp Carol Danvers finally got her own movie on March 8 2019 Marvel is frequently praised for its progressive values and Stan Lee himself was an outspoken advocate for diversity and equality however when it comes to strong female characters DC has been ahead of the game for quite some time making a movie starring a solo female superhero is something Marvel Studios hadn't done yet and it was a huge win for DC so how does the famous DC and Marvel rivalry affect the movies put out by each company according to DC co-publisher Dan DiDio the rivalry is business and not personal he claims both companies are in the business of making money and not sharing it with each other but this isn't necessarily a negative thing just because both companies are focused on their own profits doesn't mean there's bad blood between them and IDEO claims it drives both Marvel and DC to create better content he says the more we compete the better off you are DiDio acknowledges that Marvel is a fellow industry leader and says the to have a healthy competition with one another Marvel Studios had Kevin Feige echoes this sentiment and claims to have a good relationship with now former DC Entertainment president Geoff Johns he says the more success DC movies have at the box office the more people get excited about superhero films which is good news for Marvel Studios according to Feige the rivalry between the two entertainment companies is something that's mostly manufactured by the press in order to keep fans interested but just because rumors of an ongoing feud between Marvel and DC may be overblown doesn't mean we can expect to see crossovers anytime soon if you were hoping for a live-action version of the Justice League and Avengers crossover we're sorry to disappoint you Marvel's Cinematic Universe is certainly impressive but Marvel Studios needs to watch out DC just had a huge hit with Aquaman which was their highest-grossing DC expanded universe movie yet it was also the highest grossing movie featuring a DC Comics character earning them 1.1 billion dollars worldwide which was more than The Dark Knight Rises will DC benefit from being the first one in the water or will Marvel Studios continue to dominate at the box office it seems as though all anyone can talk about lately is the upcoming Avengers end game which is spare considering the success of Avengers infinity war it was the first superhero film to gross over two billion dollars worldwide and is the fourth highest-grossing film of all time only time will tell what the future for both of these incredible comic book companies holds what do you think about the rivalry between Marvel and DC do you think there's room for both of these companies or is there one you prefer way more than the other share your opinion with us in the comments section below and don't forget to subscribe to CBR for more documentary videos thank you for watching you

Channel: CBR

Views: 1,306,325

Keywords: CBR, Marvel, MCU, versus, DC, history, comic books, movies, franchise, popular, Avengers, Justice League, Jack Kirby, Stan Lee, feud, rivalry, documentary, docs

Id: sXmyW7rCVR0

Length: 30min 10sec (1810 seconds)

Published: Sun Mar 31 2019