The Hero's Journey - Interview with Christopher Vogler

welcome everybody to our head-spinning conference with Chris Walter from Los Angeles Chris you are the author writer's journey a book that Brides history since 30 years I was here Co publisher for the German Edition and we're prints for more than 20 years right now Chris I'm glad to see you right now and it's one of my dreams to to talk with you about the hero's journey the riders journey especially and all that stuff that has to do with it so hello how are you I do it very well and I'm glad to be here in your little world here with you and because it always does make my head spin in the best possible way because you ask such good questions about it and you've always been a an enthusiastic supporter and you you push me further than I dreamed I could go so I am in your debt for that oh that's nice you know with with reading your book on when I had this workshop where I first firstly heard about the writers journey I was totally surprised I was it was a door that opened in my life that changed totally in the view how I see the world and since then I'm so grateful to know about that and it became really a guide for my life to how I see the world and especially when I see into the world today you know with all these political developments and the challenges we face I think it's a very important thing to talk about the writers journey and the hero's journey and all of that deals with it how do you how I do you see the situation right now in the world the the storytelling the the movies but also the political situation well you know my orientation to it is that the stories have a function in entertaining us but they also are very useful for us as human beings because they are orientation devices they allow us to get some bearings about where we are in the world they create metaphors for us and on those metaphors we can project all of our current concerns and our worries and perhaps work them out through the story form in this sort of harmless laboratory you can try things out and see how how you feel or get your information and and feelings out there so that you you begin to understand a little bit better what's going on inside and how you were interacting with the world the stories just provide a space for us to work out any kind of social problems or personal problems this is the beauty of it that that they work on all these levels entertainment yes but also very important tools for us to make sense and try to get some sense of meaning that what we do is meaningful and our actions you know that's the whole heroic idea is that our actions can make a difference since that you are watching a lot of movies you read thousands of scripts and I was you know the the contrast between let's say Star Wars which is very often mentioned as as a movie that uses deeply the structure of hero's journey and the riders journey as well on the other hand you have for example moonlight the film who won the the Oscar for the best movie last year this year how do you see the storytelling actually because we have the superstar movies the superhero movies and on the other hand we know we have not everybody can become a superhero or a superwoman how do you see they actually the the the the change in the last 30 years which stories have been chosen which stories or metaphors or has been chosen do you feel that for example that we have good stories enough to to end to be entertained but also to be refreshed to load up our accumulator you know a queue how do you see that well I I am looking at all of this in a perspective that goes back actually 40 years because that's when the first Star Wars movie came out and it's at the same time it was my first experience just before that of Joseph Campbell's ideas and you know an encounter with this hero's journey concept so those two things came together for me and sort of opened the door to interpreting this this idea in terms of the big market movies and these highly entertaining fantasies and so forth but even from the beginning I could see that this hero's journey concept in Campbell's work also worked at this almost miniature level of individual human stories contemporary stories social stories it it also works very well there for giving you some kind of a story narrative outline but also weaving in these more psychological questions about who are we and what is our responsibility and how do we deal with change in the world around us so I think it works at both ends of the movie or storytelling spectrum it gives you a wonderful orientation for the big epics but it also works in this very intimate human scale very interesting yet and through the years let's say the last 40 years do you see a change in the reception and the discussion of the hero's journey model and you know the mythological mythological reception yes I think what is going on with all of these ideas is a simple thing I think stories are devices that we use to raise our consciousness a little bit about ourselves about other people about our relationship to the world and they operate that way they can open door as you said - a new way of understanding things or understanding ourselves so I think that people have become more conscious of the patterns because of Campbell's work and is becoming very popular and known by association with Star Wars where he was a big influence but also through my work and the work of many other people who are lecturing and studying about this it has become more conscious in the minds of the public and in the creators so you see more obvious signs of it in the work now at the same time from the very beginning of this there was criticism that this was too simplistic it was too sort of easy and simple that it oversimplified the complexities of life and many other arguments have been raised against the hero's journey as a pattern people say that it has become repetitive it has become predictable and I think all that you know it's true like any tool it can be abused you know you can use a shovel as it was intended to dig with or you can use it as a pen or a doorstop or you know it can be used in many ways and I think that's partly what's what's happened here is that there there is a tendency for people to be lazy and to use an outline such as I offer to mean I don't have to think in it I can simply follow that outline and I'll maybe get a good result but I of course don't see it that way I see it as an infinitely flexible thing that's growing all the time and changing and I I don't find it predictable I've delighted by how it continues to live and it continues to grow and change that's you know that's where I work very excited it's wonderful to hear that because I it reminds me a conference I've been in Berlin some years ago and there was a consultant from from Holland from Netherlands and he said that he is training politicians in in Netherlands with his technique you know with its knowledge this consciousness of a hero so that you sacrifice yourself that you have to grow that you have to deal with demons with your demons you see outside as a protection but also with the demons inside and all this stuff do you see any influence on political education or how we grow or in studies do you have examples for that because that I think that's very important because if you go in public or you are a responsible manager for a company for example position isn't it important to understand better what its life is about and what my role is because I think very often people go into an egoistic situation like an infant you know they they're stuck in the Magic Flight you know they want to fly and fly and don't want to change and become responsible for what they're doing so yes I have seen some pushback even in the world of politics about this some people sound a warning about the idea of zero in general as something that we should be a little wary about because it has been used in the past to reinforce dictatorships Napoleon is a famous example who was studied because he he took on many of the techniques of the heroes model and identified himself with that and you know he was able to manipulate people in a very strong way using these these same techniques but I think on the other side people need heroes this is something that was expressed in the very first Mad Max movie there's a line there a character system Mad Max people say we don't need heroes anymore but we're going to give them back their heroes you know and that's how how I feel is that this idea in some ways can be poisoned by misuse but that you such a healthy thing in general for us that I think we have to keep working to scrub it clean and make it pure as we can so that people can get the benefits of it which are mighty what wonderful because it you know it's like a recovering you know when Campbell says hero with a thousand faces probably probably we have to find new faces all the time for the hero and the hero changes all the time the face of him but on the other hand as you said it's risky model yeah we can see a lot of dictators right now he uses this power and and that's absolutely true and do you see any because I like the idea from this Dutch consultant when he mentioned that they are really watching movies they're talking about responsibility bout conflict so they work with this you know metaphors of movies to help better understand their role what they're doing for example with when Trump wants to build a wall does he understand the reaction that could happen is it the right choice to do that and so on you know do do we understand what our power is and how do we learn to to use power you know that it helps people to live better together you know it's I think power is a big part of the hero's thing and one other thing that I find totally interesting is that we call we were talking about subjects you know and I think even in America we talk talking the dramatic structure it's the subject subject somebody who is thrown down you know and you have the protagonist in the Greek in the Greek Empire in the Greek history on the Greek dramatic history and on the other hand we have the hero and the thing is it's always the main figure but the thing is the quality is different and I think now with the rise of the self you know in on you know the self storytelling the first-person storytelling there's such a crowd of people who says I am important and I read a quote from Vladimir Putin he said the biggest problem is to say people there they're important this is what he tries to prevent you know he doesn't want to say they're important they say no you're not important you're just you know little little creepy ships so I think it's a very Democratic or very political thing hero's journey not only on entertainment factors but also for society psychology and politics yes I think what the journey idea is is designed to do is to from an orientation which is basically selfish or tribal which says there is an us and of them and there are winners and losers and there are kings and commoners and there are classes and divisions and we can celebrate that and we can enlarge that or we can move as the stories tend to be trying to do I think they're trying to move us to a stand in a different place in a higher place or a bigger place where you are not identifying with your ego even as a nation you're not identifying mostly with that you're identifying with your shared humanity or with your you know connection to everything and and that that seems to be a movement in most of the myths is to grow to a sense of responsibility for others that is the basic heroic action is one of sacrificing your personal gain and your own self interests on behalf of something a little bit bigger than you and then sharing that letting that radiate for the benefit of everybody and so that's that's the benign form of the of the journey and of course there are darker forms we see lots of experimentation with this now in cable shows especially in the States this is such a big thing challenging the hero idea and making shows that are entirely about what we used to call villains and yet these same truths are still there they still make us examine Arella all of us invite us to examine this movement from the selfish may be they in the stories then the other way they move from sort of family man down into a selfish criminal world you know but that allows us to study the same dynamic of the personal versus the social and generally the stories are nudging us a little bit to be more socially minded yeah and the idea with the villain goes goes along with the shadow idea that you know we and you if you have an opposite and if you hear it for every dictator you know there are so many opposites and villains and bad people in their country on the other hand it's a projection it's it's it's their own shadow and I think the the the wisdom that you created with the with you brightest journey how did why did you call it then brightest journey because you know the model was laid out by Joseph Camel Campbell and you know the night journey the night you night night sea journey and so and I think it's a genius idea to call it brightest journey because you say it's not only there you know that the hero's journey is out there it's also your journey as well so that's a that's a dialogue between what you see outside in a movie for example and the journey of yourself and I think that's a fantastic choice yes I'm I'm reviewing all of this this is interesting because I've been asked to write a sort of scholarly paper for a journal in Germany that'll be published later this year about Campbell and his influence particularly from my point of view as I've seen it develop in the movies and games and TV shows and so forth and so I've had to go back and look at those moments and realize there was a time when no one called it the hero's journey Campbell didn't call it that that came about sometime in the 1980s I wrote a paper for one of my college classes where I used the term and then it began to appear and so when we came to name the book we were thinking about the hero's journey as a nice name for this basket of ideas that Gamble had developed and so when I said riders journey actually the idea came from my publisher you know very well Michael we see I said yes that that's a good idea because it reflected what I found in my own work as a writer that I also was going on a journey and that it matched exactly the stages that the heroes go through in the myths and the fairytales and our movies that we love that there's a very good match up in the writers experience of you know coming almost to the point of death and any work you're always going to reach the point where you feel like this is the worst thing ever created and you want to give it up but then you you come back and want to find one more time and and then maybe you can fight through to a victory and and then I found this was true in all aspects of life we could have called the book life's journey just as easily as writers journey so I think that's something you've touched on to is is how this is a powerful tool for writers I designed it for screenwriters but I was always thinking as Campbell did about life applications to any human endeavor building a business or training people or you know almost anything people do that has a degree of difficulty in it is likely to match up with the stages of these mythic heroes which which other the movies actually or stories or events that you you are you have in your mind actually and you think about them concerning hero's journey riders journey for the moment is there a movie that you say wow this is something right that I'm working on yes I like to go deep on certain films and certain filmmakers and for me the touchstones are mostly in the world the classics I enjoy finding things today modern films that Express the the journey but most of my thinking and influence has come from classics but I'll tell you a couple of films I've worked within last year or so that really gave wonderful expression of the journey in unexpected ways one of them the movie called amor which was it's a German director working in France Academy award-winning foreign film about people older people going through a tragedy the wife of this couple is is losing her mind and dying and the husband has to deal with that and it was such a beautiful expression of all these things that that Campbell talks about it that that I've tried to understand and it did a beautiful thing that particular film it it left out an element which is generally present in the stories which is the thing called the mentor an archetype that represents how we wish there was someone to help us and someone to guide us and someone older and wiser who could give us advice and magical gifts and help us along the way and in that movie there wasn't anything like that the older man was at the at the end of his rope and there was no one to turn to to help him and so that little changed from the basic pattern leaving one thing out aid the design really come to life and challenge you you know because you expect oh he'll get help from a psychologist or a doctor or his daughter or someone will come to his rescue and they didn't so it taught me an important lesson which is when we work with ideas like this where there are patterns the obligation of the artist is to know the pattern but absolutely be sure to break it when you make your work know the pattern but break it someplace go off the track on purpose leave something out you know do something unexpected with it and then it will always be a lie you'll never have had that problem the other film I worked with was called whiplash which was the film before lala land by the same director Damien Chazelle and this is about a more classic hero's journey about a young person who has a mentor but the mentor is a devil and you don't know is he trying to destroy the soul and break the soul of this young man or is he hoping to raise him up to make him more conscious and to become a great artist and there again your expectations about the mentor-student relationship are challenged and and it was just a beautiful design so those are a couple of more or less contemporary films that you know more recent anyway than the classics I usually work with wonderful wonderful when I you know I'm very attached to your structure these twelve stages when you reconsider them and I think you will you do it every day in every week since you created them and on the one went on one hand you have to be stable and safe with it and just don't change it have you ever considered to to make an improve and a change or rename something because you decided what it's very difficult you decide how do I name a stage like for example approaching the inmost cave or a supreme ordeal or so have you ever considered this oh I do consider that all the time because a choice such as what do you call something is made in space and time and it reflects your thinking at that moment and in that space and then life goes on in the world turns and us your view may change and also bring you questions and objections I was challenged only yesterday about one of my terms which is just before the end of the movie the next to last big event I have called the resurrection and as you say when you name things you have a problem because you can only pick one name and that name delivers a certain Association resurrection has maybe a Christian feeling to it for some people so may be that's to some people might say that's too limiting and it brings in all these associations maybe you don't want those so when you pick the one word whatever it is you also are making a fence around all these other thoughts that can't come in there it could be also called Redemption purification catharsis climax showdown all those are true things about that point in the story just before the ending you want all those things to happen resolution you know all of those things and I could have chosen any one of those but I chose resurrection and then I was forced to think okay why did I make that choice so I went back and looked at mr. Campbell's book the hero with a thousand faces and their air on page 245 he says resurrection so I thought okay if he can say it I said in that case but in other cases I changed his language and I then later changed my language because I thought those those choked those in terms were not loose enough to cover more possibilities for example I called an event in in just after the middle of the story when there usually is some life-or-death chase or fight or something like that the moment after that I originally called seasoning the sword because often hero to take possession of something there but I needed I felt a larger word that covered more possibilities so eventually in later editions I changed it to a reward because it's more general and can cover more more possible options so I'm I'm always refining and sort of smoothing and sanding this thing so that it it's as as generous as it can be that's how I look at it and you know I'm very attached to this it's a it's a male model you know I never thought about it for me it was a model about the individual individuals journey but then I found out it's a male journey as well you know the discussion between male and female perspective on how to grow how to become adult how to become whole and you mention on your website the female model of you know Maureen Murdock how do how do you think about the the female the here Owens journey what is your reception your thoughts about it have you what is your experience with this well I'm an expert on male as because I am one but you know I'm not so comfortable saying what that journey would be for women that's the the job of a woman but I can make some observations I certainly see the journey as it's a sexual to me it's genderless it's I mean I'm aware of the cultural load it bares and that the word hero especially in English is almost always assumed to be male if you don't specify otherwise you you assume that so I'm aware of all that but to me this thing is it's nondenominational it's non partisan it doesn't it's not you know conservative or liberal and it's neither male nor female however I would say yes there there are things that line up in it with the the typical male journey in life which is to make a huge generalization it's about achieving things and getting things and moving from one step to the next whereas and now again another big generalization that I'm not really qualified to make as a male but that women are telling me women tell me that for them the journey is about all those things yes achieving and so forth competing and so on but also about coming to terms with the group where do I sit in the group how can I advance my needs but also be sure that the the group the family or whatever is honored and and also maybe some different kind of geometry you know male is like a railroad track it just runs from A to B to Z and so on where maybe this female pattern is a different geometry maybe more like a spiral that goes in and then comes back out again because there's a lot of I think in introspection and more interest in a female-driven the story let's say in how do I feel about it and you know what's going on internally as a a little bit more internal and maybe the male things are a little more external well again these are huge generalizations but I think we can we can safely you know start the discussion that way anyhow as when you gave your lecture last year in Munich you spoke about the chakras and I was really frankly I was fascinated too because I thought it's very interesting model I never you know looked so much on chakras you know on the seven chakras of the bodies and so how do you apply this how do you see the connection between hero's journey and the chakra idea because chakra idea means there's a lot of energy in your our body you know like may the force be with you how do you see the whole energy thing combined with these chakra idea and how did you come along with that what what happened to you to bring to combine this yes I you know I came to the Campbell ideas and the hero's journey model first and it was introduced to some ideas about meditation and yoga and understanding that there are centers of energy in the body that are awake or asleep and through various means through meditation through yoga practice or some other physical practice or good you know exercise you can wake these things up you know and it seemed to be a great metaphor the the chakra system is a mark of the human body which presents the idea there's a number of centers and they're open or closed like flowers like lotus flowers and that experiences in life can cause you to shut those down if you're fearful or defeated somehow where they can open up if you feel confident and so that matches well with the journey idea in the sense of opening you up you know generally the stories are maybe you want to terrify you a little but generally at the end we're going to want to open up our consciousness like a flower that's opened up and I began to study this and feel strongly that the stories and all kinds of art are devices for opening up these centers and for raising our consciousness from the lower-level centers which are about survival and power and sex and getting us to move up just a little bit in some stories lift up a little bit into the heart feel love feel compassion feel understanding even in a story about terrible people you can feel sorry for them you this is the the eros Aristotle's idea of the proper pity and terror that you feel pity for the person who's trapped by their own behavior and you feel terror because oh that could be me that could happen to me so this is another expression that that speaks about the body you know Aristotle was about catharsis about bringing up these emotions so that you can purge them and feel pure again or a little bit more human and so that's what I think's going on with with the chakras is that they speak about potentials within us and strong music dancing meditation variety of ways have been created to sort of raise us up and the movies can certainly do that wonderful when you are traveling a lot you know through the world when you go how is the reception of the hero's journey indifferent on different company continents or cultures is it different for somebody in South America or in let's say in the Eastern countries or in I don't know in Africa or in Malaysia because when I I see even in Germany or in Switzerland or in Ireland I see a big difference as culturally you know how they adapt to the model that there is somebody can act somebody can create somebody can do something for the culture of course they all I think they all adopt or like the idea but but some cultures are very you know we core this through a dictatorship they lost their that their power of the individual you know what is your experience traveling through the world discussing this theory and this concept worldwide what is your conception well it's been a wonderful thing to test this in these different markets and or different frames of reference and see how people select certain things that that they feel are important or that resonate with their culture and their basic assumptions the sort of traditional Western thing I grew up with often has to do with the place of the individual in the society and tends to show the idea that one person can make a difference one person can change the world and I learned quickly as I traveled especially dealing with filmmakers from Eastern Europe I found a little more maybe what I thought as a cynical view that no one can change the world and I would call the hero who thought this a hero they called such a person to fool and an idiot because no one can change the world and and yet there a yearning there for you know someone to give it a try maybe they they will not meet with as much success in a culture like that maybe even they'll be brought down but at least they tried so I find that interesting and then also a difference around the world about the individual hero and the collective hero I found in little times I've been to to Asia to Singapore particularly there was much more emphasis on the family the family name is given first then the personal name the opposite the way we do in the West and often the Stewart's were the mythological and fairy tale stories that they're drawing from in those cultures are more affected more about a group of brothers a whole village more the story of a nation or tribe that is the the individual personal story but I believe that the journey idea is what you might call fractal meaning that it seems to work the very very small level of an individual scene all the way up to an epic poem and it works for the the story of the individual and it works for the story of the tribe or the group almost as well I would say interesting and you are very engaged or you know you are very you love the idea talking about science and and what is your thought about science how can we approve how is it approved do we have scientific researches tests that help us to understand the hero's journey do you see because some people say you know it's myth of mythological stuff you can't really talk about this but we know there are those the mirror neurons we know what happens more and more what in the brain and we see the virtual reality right now was immersive they're immersive results but I also think that we have an understanding of the evolutionary psychology you know what deeply motivates us drives us you know like sex or meeting the goddess or you know you know these powerful tools like atonement father atonement and so what do you think about what do you know about or think about scientific approve or how is the discussion what do you personally think about that well I'm excited because you know i I'd be perfectly happy if we just left it at it's a metaphor and it's a it's a dreamlike idea and it's a fantasy that'd be okay with me but I'm very happy when science supports it and backs up some of these ideas and I do believe you know in in time we may find that science comes to believe or proves that these ideas these concepts are somehow hardwired into the nervous system that we evolved to respond to heroes who represent us going into an imaginary dangerous situation we are simply wired as human beings in a way that the animals are not we are wired to empathize we are wired to give over some of our consciousness to the story and to the characters in the story it's a mysterious process it'll be hard to prove but I think we're gonna find wiring and brain that actually supports that that that we have a we have grown a metaphorical dimension to our thinking and so it it's it supports these poetic and you know metaphysical ideas the research that's coming up now more and more speaks to the idea that that we are wired for story there's a good book by a woman named Lisa Kron about that idea and you know it's a it's a wonderful concept to explore and I am a believer in trying to prove these things by science where we can very very interesting because I'm I'm actually in contact with neuroscientists and we're talking about storytelling and I'm also involved in a in a storytelling study about viral videos and I'm sure that you can find really this attractive or this being attracted or wired even to not only to stories but also probably to heroes to this you know to this energy of a person who is vital and tries to really go into the shadow and find and deals with the demons and try to find solutions to recover and to to redirect with us cultural with this tribe I think there is a very old evolutionary side in us that that in deep and in our brain that reacts and I guess so but you don't know actually of labs in Stanford or whatever that are dealing with us because I'm in contact with Princeton where they have some that and they are all there he's very interesting the guy who runs the studio and the lab and I think we can find much more about that I think oh I think it's yeah yeah I think it's it's really interesting especially if you just looked at this kind of viral videos you speak of we have a thing in the states now in order to cheer you up on the news every night the news is so terrible that they all have come now to this practice at the very end they put a little piece which is uplifting about some person who has done something unusual or a cat that saved a little boy from an attack by a dog or something like that and I just saw last night about a little boy who was born with the condition he had no arms and yet he wanted to play basketball and with the little piece of an arm that was left he was able to flip the basket basket ball into the basket he could play and you know I think you could study things like that and see how the brain lights up when an individual does something that challenges the assumptions of society when they do something on behalf of someone else like a fireman saving someone those those I think very definitely light up particular centers in the brain they give us pleasure they make us feel better about ourselves and these are knowable things you can definitely study that by just putting you know the grid of sensors on the skull you can see for instance they said that showing people someone simply walking across the street does not light up the cortex very much but if you simply know why I'm going across the street why is that even a stick figure if the stick figure is going to help someone a completely different array lights up in the brain we are paying attention we're identifying we are motivated by it and this is how the stories work in this magical way they connect with something that's in us that wants to surrender and and let our life be compared to someone else's life and if we see something heartwarming or someone sacrificing it create it releases chemicals in us so the body is it is the chemistry set along with everything else it's a flexible machine and many other things but it there's no question now I think science is moving this way that stories affect a chemical factory and and generate emotion in these very subtle but powerful ways so it's great research I'm glad you're doing that I want to hear the results yes I will I would keep you informed you know the the the this great idea from Joseph Campo called bliss what he you know what he received from the front and Sanskrit and I think it's it's a powerful model for me it's a it's the core of vitality and when you spoke about that for me bliss is like you know people are we have a lot of people around the world now in a kind of a burnout you know not knowing what to do i i'm working in a job and i don't you know i don't like or i'm i'm under pressure all the time now that the news are very bad often you so we have the feeling like that's very narrow-minded and we don't feel well and on the other hand I call it the burn in you know burning means to get connected to you what read is your vocation what really drives you what is really you enthusiasm and for me it's in storytelling even in your specially in your 12-step stages you created you know after this we're seizing the sword and coming back to life you know research that when when life comes back in your body and in your soul for me this is like the third act that's being reborn because life comes back because you fight it through you know five stage five six seven eight you fight it to get back to to to to to get life back in you know you fight for your own power but when you have to power you have to let go the power and bring the world in and start to grow again to blossom so for me in the middle you know if you chase it an animal it flees because it has vitality protect and fight ality it's the most important thing and so for me it's all around that right what do you think about the Bliss yes yes well you know this is another example of how a simple idea a concept like that are just a phrase like that can empower lots of people and be inspiring to lots of people but it can also be used in a kind of stupid way it can be oversimplified and for some people it's been interpreted as all you have to do is do the things that are easy and fun for you and you will be happy and you'll be rewarded and that's not what it means at all I'm finding this out in my current situation just in this moment I am being asked to do things that I really don't know how to do and I'm scared and I'm uncomfortable but at the same time I realized I am the most intensely alive and to me that's the bliss you know to be scared but to know that I everything they have now I need every bit of knowledge and every bit of strength and every bit of wisdom and all of my tools I need them now and you know I may I may be destroyed by the monsters but man I'm alive so that that's the Bliss to me is is finding something that uses your abilities and experience and and that will you know scare you maybe in the moment but in the end that's where the real bliss is when you're in your book and your famous book here you know here I have it you know I have so many copies of it you know from different editions Kris have you seen la-la-land yes yes I was very delighted by that zone you know partly because it celebrates my hometown and deals with artists who trying to find their way and you know finally follow her bliss and figure out their path in life but I enjoyed it because of what seemed to me great maturity in the storytelling that they were taking the perspective of after you have loved and you know the end point I think is this old realization there's nothing new about this thought but the idea it's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all and there might be a great pain in that and second thoughts about all I should have made a different choice but I still have that I still have the memory of it and the moments where it was perfect and I'll always have that and I'll cherish that and that's a wonderful human thing and I think there was room there for many many people to put themselves in in those positions one the artist trying to find their way and find that list and then also trying to strive for that taste of love and you're lucky if you get it so I admired the film and also how beautifully it was made and constructed to touch on these chakras you know they they they would play on them with the music you know so lifts you up sometimes and mellow you out and other times and it was a full exercise of the whole tree you know and everything is in there the power and the love and the expression you know all of the things that the chakras speak about were expressed including even some little moments of books divine connection with the universe you could feel that there that they were aware of all that so it was a beautiful visit to all those different human possibilities thank you very much for this great conversation with you I enjoyed it I would love to to to to make it to talk longer with you but I think for the moment it's very impressing and I'm absolutes and ideas after this this beautiful conversation with you so thank you very much and do we have a kind of a story or a quote that you would like to finish our our Skype session well I I would just end with a little story that gave me a piece of wisdom in an unexpected way that has to do with journeys and finding your way at some point I was lost with my wife and family we were looking for the house of a famous painter Winslow Homer who painted pictures of the the beautiful coastline and so forth and we were on an island where he lives didn't work and couldn't find it so my wife made me get out of the or and ask you know OS wives do ask their men to do that job and reluctantly went looking for someone to ask how where is Winslow homers house and the only human I could see was just a pair of shoes sticking out from beneath the car some young man was working on his car on one of those rollers that slides back and forth and I came over to the feet and I said excuse me could you tell me how to get to slow Homer's house and he rolled out from underneath the car and he said to me he looked up and he said just keep going till you get there and I thought that's brilliant universal advice that covers all the bases and it's it's a perfectly good advice on your journey is if you want to get somewhere you'll meet obstacles you'll get lost but you just keep going until you get there and I like that because it's it's positive it predicts that you will get there and that you don't worry about those obstacles that's part of the journey being lost is definitely part of the journey being confused and so forth so did left me with a good positive feeling so I'll leave you with that just go until you get there so thank you very much it was a great pleasure wonderful thank you great

Channel: UweWalter

Views: 3,553

Rating: 4.9428573 out of 5

Keywords: Hero's Journey, Heldenreise, Christopher Vogler, Heroine's Journey, Archetypes, Calling, Vocation, Michael Wiese Publishing, Quest, Star Wars, George Lucas, Joseph Campbell, 12 Stages, The journey

Id: 8SmsaOKB35s

Length: 52min 37sec (3157 seconds)

Published: Fri Mar 30 2018