The Challenges Of Starting A Farm | Never Easy BUT Always Worth It

know why you're doing what you're doing know  why you want to farm because it's a grind man   and dayto day week to week month to month season  to season it's it's up and down there's highs   and lows it's the best thing ever some days and  some days you want to quit and if if you don't   have a good why you can't bear the many house in  which you can do it and so understand why it is   you're do you're doing what you're doing why  you want to start a farm and carry that with   you every day because that's the thing that  keeps you going when it's when the things are   bad and that's the thing that makes you feel  great and on top of the world when things are good hello Ryan hey Chris So today we're going to  talk about the many challenges of starting to farm   cool in our other video together we were speaking  about how to start a farm and you gave a lot of   advice and your experience on that but we're going  to kind of focus in on the challenges today I kind   of have a list of how we're going to break it down  Okay so we're going to start from I think probably   the biggest piece of the puzzle for a lot of  people are the thing that's most front and Central   on their mind when they're starting to farm which  would just be money but more specifically than   that let's call it capital because I believe you  have quite a bit to say about the types of capital   that go beyond money so let's start there what  a what are the challenges that people are going   to face when it comes to money and capital and  starting to farm yeah sure man um money's always   a challenge I think um I think the biggest thing  you want to think about is how you're using it   effectively um for us we built a lot of our farm  with the circular economy so a lot of fence boards   a lot of old fence FES that we turned into pump  houses uh tool walls Garden sheds um and use the   resources that we had because you know we weren't  swimming in money and so I think the important   thing is is to think about look at what you have  assess what's available to you look at other   sources of money or Capital like you know what do  you have personally that you're willing to put in   and I would also say like mitigate the risk like  don't put all your eggs in one basket don't put   all your money into your farm project um we slow  rolled ours I think I saided in the other video we   were talking about um you know we built our farm  over like a year and a half two years um we're   still building it like there's things that we want  to have on our farm that we don't have because   we haven't had the financial Capital to do it a  greenhouse for example um for winter production   and so you have to manage that um pretty smartly  I would say holistically um and you know money is   not necessarily the only form of capital either  that you want to be leveraging I mean you can   look at there's a great um book and I guess um  concept called these the eight forms of capital   that um come from a great book called regenerative  Enterprise and that's where I borrow that from and   that's how I would quantify my Capital before  starting a farm or or even while running a farm   is you know you can do a lot without money um  if you have a good resource base of friends   family you know you have material capital on your  farm so when we moved in into our place you know   we really looked at like what's available on the  site already like there was old buildings um that   we can retrofit there's buildings we can take down  and rebuild and use the lumber you know and if if   you're doing those things you're not spending the  money on those things we easily could have build   New Garden sheds for ourselves but there was some  old buildings on the property that had some good   wood so we had time time was a resource we had  so we take down the buildings save the Goodwood   cut it up turn it into a garden shed a pump house  you know we get I have friends who tear down old   fences they drop them off at our place we tear  the fences apart and we use the fence boards   as wall panels we use the 4x4s as posts for a new  garden shed or whatever it is we're building free   free it's free right that's great you know and you  know we we connect with like a local arborist who   drops off wood chips for free because he has  to pay to dump it my farm did the same thing   yeah and so it's about like how do you leverage  these different forms of capital whether it's   like Social Capital like through your network  and connections of people how can you leverage   that because there's always people willing to  come out and give a hand there's always people   who you know I'm lucky we have a lot of friends  in the in the skilled trade so like if I need an   electrician or a Mason and when you're on building  a farm you need all of those things or you need to   be all those things right and sometimes might all  it might all it takes is you know like you throw   a pizza party or a case of beer and someone  to come over and do a job for you right and   so it's about like looking at your resource base  as a whole financial capital's part of it but I   think a big part of it is like what's existing on  the property already like what living Capital do   you have like soil trees you know we've gotten so  much free firewood for the house because we have a   forest you know we can Leverage The Forest um as  a source for inputs for the farm um things like   that you know and you know can you trade you know  I follow Richard Perkins and his famous thing is   you know we traded a bunch of chickens to build  uh like an egg packery with an old Caravan right   so it's you don't have to buy new it's about how  do you like use the resources available to you   and how do you build that capital and how do you  like even turn some of your financial Capital into   other forms of capital that you can then leverage  to put it together I want to add to that but let   me close this door cu the walk-in cooler some  sort of fan just went on so that I I love all   that but if we're to talk just about financial  Capital what do what do you say to people or what   advice do you have for thinking about borrowing  money you know whether or not you should or should   not go for loans uh borrowing money from family  or things sure it's a trick it's always a tricky   one I mean I think I would avoid borrowing if you  can um I think borrowing money is a good tool for   a certain application I think whenever you're  going to borrow money I think you need to be   sure of whatever you're borrowing the money for  you know how that money is going to pay itself   back so like if I was going to borrow money for a  greenhouse I know that green house is going to pay   me back what you don't want to do is borrow money  and not have a plan for it and borrow a bunch of   money just to build your farm I think you need  to know how that money is going to get paid back   over time and you need to invest it in things that  are going to generate Revenue don't invest it in   things that aren't going to be Revenue generating  and so looking at your farm know how it's going to   make money I would say too the best thing about  the financial aspect is some of the best advice   I ever got was cash flow your farm with customers  so if you don't have the capital you can easily   get customers start small produce something that  doesn't cost a lot to produce like micro greens   is a perfect example for a th000 bucks you can set  up a rack with lights and trays and seed and that   can produce $500 worth of Revenue a week it's  going to return on its investment very quickly   it's also going to allow you to start small with  little risk and it's going to generate revenue and   it's going to teach you how to go out and actually  like make sales and find customers like to throw a   bunch of money at things that you've borrowed and  have an interest rate to pay back that's a lot of   risk at least for me personally that's a lot of  risk when you don't know yet if it's working or if   it's going to work or if the whole thing's going  to work right and so I would say break it out   into chunks look at what you have fin Capital wise  build what's essential spend the money on what's   essential first like for us we put our cash into  like a couple shipping containers cuz we needed   a wash pack station like full stop we needed a  six row seeder right these are the things that   we going to pay us back instantly you know but  we didn't buy a greenhouse right away because you   know we just didn't have enough resources to do  that we didn't buy a tractor CU it wasn't a game   changer right your money on game changing things  and then spend it slowly and if you can cash flow   your farm with customers you're doing much better  than having to borrow money and then once you get   to a point where you're like it's working you have  customers you know there's Revenue there and you   could borrow money to scale up I think that's  a better strategy for me yeah you know we put   money away from our full-time jobs and that was  our loan we loaned it to ourselves essentially we   put it into the business month by month until  we had enough to buy the things we needed and   then started buying them slowly and then we didn't  buy more things until we had the funds available   to do it it just mitigates a lot of risk and  stress and pressure um and but if if if you're   risk tolerant and pressure tolerant then by all  means it's a good tool for sure and I mean you   can always borrow you can borrow from family and  friends possibly but that's also risky business   as well because you don't want to affect those  relationships too much absolutely make Christmas uncomfortable um what about the challenge that  someone might have of selling like what I'm   hearing is if you're prepared with your sales  Outlets then you know that mitigates a lot of   risk in terms of borrowing money so then that  now makes me think of the other challenge of   finding sales outlets and for a lot of farmers  that maybe not I don't know how many but that's   probably a challenge for them is just selling  enough of what they have maybe they have a lot   of stuff they can't sell where do you start  there man I think sales is half the game I   think sales is probably the biggest challenge um  I don't know if every farmer would say this but I   would say it like growing the vegetables is the  easy part I do recall my on my farm in the past   the vegetable grower and the manager of it would  always talk about how much she didn't like being   a glorified drug Hustler like is how he felt  that he was constantly needing to hustle if it   we were just interrupted for a moment but back to  what I was saying is yeah the vegetable manager   of my farm in the past would just consistently be  frustrated with u having to hustle to sell and he   just wanted to farm and focus on that and I think  if you're starting to farm for many Growers it's   the growing that they're probably more interested  in and so selling might be a huge uh well it's so   it's a challenge for a number of reasons like at  the end of the day it's the customers and that   Community Connection and the sales that make your  operation viable unless you're growing for like   not for profit for whatever reason but like if you  that's what keeps your bus alive and so I think   one fallacy that a lot of people go into farming  with is not being prepared to actually like run it   like a business and I think you know sales is  half of the game and you need to kind of have   some idea on how to set that up to begin with like  you do you do need to understand a bit of market   research and where your sales are going to come  from and establish those quickly um and listen   it takes it takes time it's competitive out there  there's other Farmers that are selling to people   you might already want to sell to and being new  it's not easy to get customers this is why I would   always say like start small with what you can  manage first and that you have demand for because   I often see a lot of times people have this idea  in their mind and it's from like watching people   like JM who have been successful and other farmers  who have kind of that Paradigm of like I can do   150,000 on an acre and a half people see that as  a carrot and think they can do it and they can but   they get ahead of themselves in the production and  then they don't have a sales for it and then you   have a lot of wasted time energy and resources in  producing those things and then not being able to   sell them and so I would say like you need to grow  sustainably like start small sell what you learn   what you can sell first and produce that it it  makes me think of something that I think even a   home gardener realiz which is that only grow what  you're going to eat I think a lot of people the   first time they start aarden they grow a whole  bunch of stuff they don't necessarily love that   much they don't want to eat it as often there too  much of it but if you just think about the things   that you like to eat all the time and you never  grow tired of yes that should be I think we've all   grown too many tomatoes at one point in our life  yeah and and you tell yourself oh I'll I'll can   them all yeah and then you don't find the time  yeah but what you're saying to me like it's a   perfect um link there that it's the same with  selling like don't grow a bunch of things you   can't sell and you know what your sales Avenues  aren't always going to be what you'd hope they'd   be you know like we've gone to a couple markets  in the last few seasons and you know at the start   of the Season I'm thinking this is the revenue I'm  going to be able to generate from that market and   then sometimes the Market's just not there and so  you have to be I would say also diversify how you   do your sales you know so for us like we go to a  couple of farmers markets but then we also sell   wholesale to like a food aggregator who picks up  at our farm we you know we haven't traditionally   run a CSA but we have people who pre-order on our  website build their own bag and then come pick up   so if you have those different revenue streams  then we obviously sell to like some chefs and   restaurants as well but like some of those people  will will drop off some of them will be hit and   miss some of them will be steady and so you kind  of have to figure out that your distribution   channels and where you can sell and then figuring  how to make that efficient like for me last year   the biggest lesson we learned was too much time  and energy going to the market just in terms of   like distribution and driving and setup of course  for the return right and so now we're thinking how   we how can we run like a membership CSA model  instead where we invite people to the farm and   then there's less opportunity cost of going to the  market and not being on the farm we can actually   produce more and probably sell more and create a  better experience by bringing people out and then   our sales are going to go up but then also like  our productivity is going to go up and then also   like our quality of life is going to go up so I  think you got to look at it really holistically   in terms of like what you're capable of doing  what you can sell what works best for your   context like for me I'm farming by myself often  the last couple years with some part-time help   but so like me going to the market means there's  nobody at the farm for half a day right so there's   an opportunity cost there it's about balancing  all those things to find like that flow where it   and that's the difference between profitable and  not profitable speaking more about finding your   sales avenues that makes me think of the Social  Challenges of farming in in particular what I mean   is the challenges of like if you want to find many  people to buy your produce you you kind of need   to get out there and be social be known in your  community and I think for a lot of farmers par you   know the introverted ones or the ones that really  just want to be alone at the farm that's that's   what they're seeking it's that piece can be really  hard Y what do uh what's what are your what advice   do you have on well I mean you know you do if you  do have to be a salesperson to a degree to to sell   your own product I mean you can hire somebody out  to do that but then there's a cost to that so um   I think you know you're going to learn as you go  and you're going to figure it out and nobody's   as passionate as you are ever going to be about  your own product um but that's where like a good   partner comes in is if you're not if you're that  introvert and you really are like scared to death   to selling to people and and being the face then  you have someone who maybe has that skill that's a   good person to look for in terms of uh partnership  and you know talking talking about these different   forms of capital like building that Network before  you start your farm or while you're starting your   farm I think is super important like it it goes  so it goes such a long way to not just thinking   about like that Financial Capital but having that  resource base where you can have collaborative   Partnerships with local businesses to help you  sell you know like for us when we started you   know we had produce halfway through the season  so we weren't in any markets yet because we were   building our farm and then we grew some to to  sell you know and I was lucky enough that I had   some good relationships with some local business  um people they gave us some spots to pop up so   we popped up in front of like a furniture store  who's a friend of mine and they own a furniture   store but it gave us a little market to pop up  we place to pop up very interesting but they   had a great location like they were downtown and  it worked yeah it worked it it helped us get get   those initial customers because you can go on  social media and try to get people to come to   you and like that's that was our hope it doesn't  always work and so you have to be creative and we   leveraged our Network very well like I was good  friends with with um a couple of guys who own   a brewery in town as well and so they gave us a  spot to pop up in front of their Brewery so they   already have a lot of traffic they're friends of  mine they're like you can pop up for free use our   property and that relationship C they that setting  up there cost me nothing but I could leverage that   Social Capital that I created by having a good  relationship with those guys and then since then   we've actually built out like a full on Farmers  Market at their Brewery the last couple of years   and so now there's a crowd of people that come  to their Brewery on the weekend it it'ss them we   have a market to that we control that we work  with other um vendors groceries and a beer at   the same time right then we do live music and we  have you know people on the patio and it's it's   a really cool like cultural scene we've created  and so we've built this kind of cultural capital   now in the community that didn't exist before so  people come out to the brewery and they get they   get extra customers we get a place to sell that  we don't really have in the marketplace and it's   kind of this everyone wins relationship right so  you don't always have to pay for things to make   it work it's how do you leverage the resources  that you have and those those social networks   that you have there a few things I want to touch  on I like you mentioning cultural capital there at   the end where I live here it's the same place the  jam lives we have a really amazing community that   kind of comes around small scale farming and  just all the different small businesses that   are around here and I think if you're involved in  that you you have a presence in the community and   you want to start a farm you're kind of ahead  because like you have this cultural capital   around you and people are going to pay attention  and I think if you don't have that it's you have   you know it's wise to start cre cultivate it  yeah start to cultivate it and then another   thing you said earlier that I took note of was  that you mentioned you said specifically to have   things prepared before yes I forget exactly which  thing you were talking about but it was basically   just saying you want to have things figured out  before you start the farm or at the very least   in the very beginning and ideally not after or  well after and I think it links back to saying   you said in our other video which was slow down  yeah and I think this is a huge challenge that   probably a lot of farmers out there do face is  that they maybe they bite off a bit more than   they can do they go a bit too fast and you kind  of run into you run into the burnout yes so what   can you say about that that's a great question and  I think it's something that we've all experienced   in in agriculture or in farming um you know for  me the last two years have been very tough very   challenging because you know I start we started  our farm during Co and as we were just getting   it going I you know I kind of lost my job for  whatever reason and then had to depend on the   farm as kind of like a main source of income and  we had that was never like our plan the plan was   to have it as kind of this like side project for a  couple of years prove that we can make it work to   make a living for one or two people and so we were  we just hired people with very little risk we set   it all up we just hired someone to run it and we  it was making enough to pay them and then pay the   farm back a little bit but like it wasn't fully  running yet right that's cuz we were starting   small and slow so it wasn't at a scale where it  was ready to make a living for somebody full-time   and then I was kind of forced to make it work and  then luckily for me like I had enough experience   that I knew what to do but I you know I didn't  have the financial Capital right then and there   at that time to like scale it up really quick so  we had to be really creative in terms of like how   to leverage the resources we have available to  make that work in this kind of new changing our   context got completely flipped on its head right  yeah and so you look to your resource base and   like what can I leverage to help me make make this  work and so you go to your you know people who you   can work with and collaborate with you know we had  lots of family and friends that come out and help   as well but it's also like to your point you know  like you do need to slow down because going too   hard too fast and trying to do too much you spread  yourself very thin and then what you end up with   is a bunch of cups half full instead of having  one full cup that you're just focusing on right   and if you're trying to do too many things at once  like you got eight plots when you can really only   manage four and you can't afford to hire labor to  manage those other four like you need to shrink   it down do what's manageable for your knowledge  skills and ability and master that first because   if you don't have that mastered then you're trying  to do eight things half well and that's not a good   formula for Success do one thing very well and  then go from there it makes me think think of   what you were talking about ear too the idea of  context and your why M which is like you know do   you really need I think a lot of people when  they start their Farm they they just want to   grow everything and they want to sell to everyone  and and then you're talking about how you started   a farm and it was only on the part-time and it  makes me think too like how how many people out   there are just having a side business Farm where  it's their full business and is that actually   you know a lot of people that want to start a farm  like maybe that's actually where they should start   it's just a side business and what do you have to  say there like how should people think about this   if do you think there like to someone that you  think maybe is getting well ahead of themselves   you know like again so slow down and then really  understand your why and like for us it was very   much about building a homestead like yeah we  wanted it to be productive enough that it could   obviously pay back the investment we put into  infrastructure and tools and into the landscape   and so we were setting it up to like Revenue in  sales and economics wasn't the number one thing   like we weren't necessarily doing it to like get  rich or make a bunch of money for us it was very   much about quality of life and lifestyle like  I love it we wanted to be on the property and   like working with nature and building something  that we can that's Noble and we can sell to the   community and invite the community in and like  half the reason I farm is I just like to get   together with people and have a nice meal and  like having a space to bring family and friends   to is like top of our list right and so um you  know understanding your context and then and and   slowing down and making sure like you know why  you're doing it and not spreading yourself thin   is super important so like I imagine in your  in your context because you built it for those   reasons you probably designed it in such a way  that you know if it doesn't go so well at certain   times it's not like you're just completely sunk in  life because you you you wanted a homestead it's a   lot of it's about the lifestyle it's not just  about make or break the money correct and and   like we we haven't scaled up for for that reason  right it's like the last two seasons have really   been about just making it work and understanding  the Nuance there and establishing our market and   having like a consistent level of sales that we  know we can depend on dialing the production in   and making sure we can max value out of like these  six plots that we have before adding like two more   plots before building a greenhouse or before you  know adding more like we added chickens last year   and to me that was a new that's a new thing for  me so that's a new thing we had to learn and we   didn't know how that was going to work but it's  helped you know save us money on fertilizer we   get free eggs it saves US money on eggs and so  we look at it like as that big picture like yeah   we have chickens we're not getting rich on the  eggs but we get free eggs and we save money on   buying eggs and we can we sell enough eggs that  it pays to feed the chickens and we get compost   and you probably enjoy from the CH we like the  chickens and we get a resource to put on the   garden and you know so it's about looking at it  holistically and not doing more than we can't like   realistically do and when you do that like it's  about being regenerative and being resilient and   if you if you're spread too thin you don't have  any resilience like one falls apart the whole   system breaks right yeah in our context we're  trying to build that resource base where if one   thing fails or one market doesn't work out or this  doesn't work we have different ways to like bounce   back and it doesn't SN us right and then staying  keeping that energy so you don't get burnt out   is important and you got to consciously think  about that because it's easy to work 70 hours   a week and with a million pots on the go Focus on  like the two or three levers that work and double   down on that let's move on to talking about skills  yeah because obviously a big part of uh starting a   farm is just having all the skills you're going to  need not only the farming and the growing skills   but the business skills the marketing skills you  know and if you don't have a big social network   of people that are going to be helping you might  also be building skills Plumbing skills electric   like a lot of farmers wear many hats yes so where  to begin thinking about you know your your skill   set do you what do you have at your disposal  what should you be thinking about before you   take the leap to starting to farm well I would  certainly audit myself first and I think that's   something everyone should do if they're going  to go be ambitious enough to start a farm like   seriously look at yourself and be honest with  yourself and say what am I good at what do I   suck at and then look at what you're trying to  accomplish what skills do I need to make this   farm work and then see where the Gap is and then  wherever there's a gap go acquire those skills   like take an online course take the master class  at The Institute go work on a farm where you're   going to get those skills um you know or find a  way to teach yourself you know like we needed to   dig our own Pond I didn't have that so you know  we watched a bunch of YouTube videos on like   how to use have bigger machines and like YouTube  University this is it right I mean you with with   the age of the internet you can teach yourself  pretty much anything now you can go get a book   you don't need to necessarily go to school for  two years to or four years to get a degree and   learn a bunch of things you can teach yourself  or go learn from others but I think you really   got to audit yourself and ask yourself what am I  good at what do I want to do what what do I like   doing and then wherever there is gaps either bring  somebody else on to work with you either hire them   or bring them on as a partner um or go get that  experiential Capital that you need uh to kind   of fill that cup up you know like for us I'm not  very handy my skill set is like planning design   putting the pieces together and then like Market  gardening cuz that's what I have experience in and   I'm lucky enough that the guys that I work with  the property owners like they can build anything   and so when we need something built I just stand  back and be the laborer and let somebody else like   build those things and then you learn as you go  and then now you know after like three or four   years of farming you learn those skills just  by default because at the end of the day when   something's broken you have to fix it or you have  to build something yourself and you don't want to   pay somebody else to do it it's much cheaper to  figure it out by yourself and fail a bunch this   seems like another place where before verse after  yes is pretty important like yes you can learn on   the Fly and sometimes it's going to work and  that can be energizing and fun but I think a   lot of people again hit a wall at some point  Y when you know you just don't have the time   like I'm a big dedicated student of YouTube  University yes I love to learn things yes via   what I can find on YouTube but it does take time  and I have to sift through and I have to find the   right information I'm really into that I get kind  of obsessed with things I want to learn so I tend   to manage but there's plenty of ways in what in  which it's not really like the most efficient   way for me to learn certain things and and also  moments where I can recognize like this is just   simply going to take too much time to figure this  thing out I'm going to get help from someone else   now but I would still like to learn in the future  Y how should someone be thinking about that when   they're starting a f I think too there's something  to be said about just getting started like you can   a lot of people I think sometimes will also use  that as an excuse to not get started they just   they need to know I'm someone like that like I  need to know something in depth before I go do   it I need to go learn read 10 books or take AIS by  analysis can and then yeah exactly then you spend   a year reading about the thing you could have  just probably learned by doing it and failing   a bunch first and so like I would say if it's not  going to cost you a lot start just do it and fail   fast and learn because the best way to learn is  to do is to fail is to do it and fail right like   I wouldn't start failing on like you know a big  project like dig in a pond I would start small   and dig a hole dig a hole like you know what I  mean like don't if you if you're not sure and   you don't have the skills and you're learning as  you're going don't take bite off more than you   can chew cuz you're going to fail like it's going  to happen like I had seven years of Market Garden   experience before I started my Market Garden and  I still fail every week but you iter this is the   beautiful thing about farming and having your  own Farm is it's iteration after iteration after   iteration and if you have a um a thing where you  just want to you have constant Innovation constant   learning where you're observing what you've what's  happened why you failed iterate get better and go   from there like half of it is just getting started  yeah and making your failur failures not expensive   so really there's and I I know this like I'm not  trying to be too negative about don't don't start   your farm until you're ready but there's a sweet  spot you could say a balance between just starting   and being prepared um like I I can just think back  in my own experience that I think I was the type   of person that was going to too far ahead before  preparation but then there might be other people   that are too far into preparation and not just  starting cuz I remember seeing some video online   when I was pretty young about a person just  talking about how they they got 10 chickens   and they failed but then that was the moment  their life started cuz then they got 500 and   started a business and they learned from it and it  motivated me to fail fail fail yeah but I think I   went too far that direction I was like oh failing  is great I just want to keep failing because every   time you fail you learn and grow mhm and yeah  that's true to an extent but I think yeah like   there you have to think about the balance between  you need to learn yeah so you you need to learn   to enjoy losing to a degree um because that's  what that's the impetus to like help you evolve   and get better and like it's funny you mentioned  the chickens like we'd like to have 99 chickens   because that's like the number we we can have but  it's also like that's going to Max us out in terms   of like economic VI ability of eggs we've only had  25 because like that's all I could fathom managing   at the start right we started small knowing we  want to have 100 but I wasn't about to get 100   chickens when I've never raised chickens so like  start with five man cuz if they all die it's going   to suck five dying is better than a 100 dying  this brings back personal experiences as well   just I wasn't usually in charge of these chickens  but I I have seen in different operations chickens   come and go real fast usually it's at the mercy  of the wild Predators correct and people that were   trying to give it a go without proper fencing just  thinking it'll be fine yes well and like failing   big is discouraging failing small is okay and like  you want to test do tests small tests see what   works try fail learn again and like if there's  something that you don't you don't know and you   really want to learn how to do it like go work for  free for somebody and learn how to do it like if I   wanted to like learn carpentry or learn masonry  like I'd go work with my friend for a couple of   weeks and for free and they'll be happy to take  the Free Labor and you get a free education out   of it you know we have people who come out to  our place who want to learn how to farm I can't   afford to pay them because like they don't have  any skills right and so they'll come out and just   Shadow me for a day or two and work here or there  and it's a nice exchange of value because they're   learning something and like I'm happy to sit down  and talk to them and walk them through everything   especially if they're helping me get a job done  you know there's a value exchange there they're   interested in this thing they're learning how to  do it they're coming to work for free they get an   experience so they're building their experiential  capital I get like some free labor but I also just   get extra help and it it's a nice value exchange  there so one thing we've done on our farm that I   haven't talked about yet is you know we haven't  really had employees the last two years I've had   some part-time help um and there has been a couple  of people that we've paid for part-time help but   we're really trying to create an environment where  we have kind of these collaborative Partnerships   so like I hired a guy who wanted to start his own  apiary so he had no places to put his bees so we   gave him a spot on the farm like we wanted bees on  the farm but I didn't necessarily want to spend a   bunch of money to set it all up cuz I also didn't  have time to take care of it and I don't have any   knowledge of how to do that so he comes in I pay  him to work on the farm so many hours but we just   give him a salary and he stays a little bit longer  comes in a little bit earlier does a little bit   more in exchange he's got a free place to do his  bees he gets to start a business so he's like an   entrepreneur and he's helping us work on the farm  but then he's also teaching me how to operate the   bees as well and then I've since then invested in  a couple of hives small one at a time and we're   growing that out and I'm learning from him he gets  a free space and so building that like again that   social capital I don't have that experiential  Capital um with the bees and the honey but I'm   investing in that in a different way it's not  like I'm paying somebody to just come and set   it up I'm giving them the space because we have a  resource that this person doesn't have available   to them land in space and so then they can come  and use our land and our resources to manister   Hive and in exchange they do some extra work for  us and everybody wins we did the same thing last   year with the lady who worked with us who wanted  to start like a flower operation same thing we   build her some beds she worked on the farm she  does a little bit extra in exchange for a free   plot of beds to grow her own flowers and then  she can start a flower operation off of it and   then suddenly now we have flowers and bees and  vegetables and all these extra resources that we   can now leverage and if I wanted some bouquet  to sell on my stand I could do that if I have   now I have my own supply of honey for the year  that I don't pay for and so you're building all   these different forms of capital without really  like money was never exchanged in most of those   transactions yeah how do you see the balance  between you know utilizing just for simplest   terms like volunteer help vers you know paying  people and having employees because I ask this   because I think a lot of farms potentially get  a little bit stuck like in the volunteer Zone   maybe you know it might be really nice the very  beginning you have a few events parties people   you know it's beautiful it's community building  but you you know you can't just necessarily have   volunteers run a farm you know you cannot and for  years and then that often leads to social problems   between people so how do you kind of see that and  or what what kind of advice do you give to people   that are you know they're they're thinking about  that they're yeah so I think you're absolutely   right you can't R you you're going to struggle  to run your economic operation on volunteers I   think it's good in a community setting that can  work um but if you're trying to run any kind of   business you can't rely on volunteers because  they're unreliable um but volunteers are great   because there's a there's a different transaction  there and I think you want to make make sure that   there's not a gray area where they think that  they're invested in the business or the farm   or they get profits or something yeah it's about  clear communication and setting the expectations   I think at the start and so we're very clear about  what the arrangement is you know with anyone who   comes to work with us it's like these are the jobs  we're paying you to I'm paying you to do this is   the salary I'm paying you you need to get these  jobs done like I'd prefer not to pay an hourly   rate I'd prefer to be like this is the salary I'm  willing to pay you a week these are the jobs that   need to get done this is how long it should take  because i' and I know because I've done it and   then that's a motivating factor for those people  to be more efficient well be more efficient and   right and it's not like I'm like you can't leave  till the job's done it's more like here's a goal   to achieve you this is how you can do it and you  give them the tools to be able to do that and then   you know it's about creating an environment where  it's like you you do have to treat an employee   different than you do a volunteer you know we have  volunteers that come out and I give them a little   more autonomy to decide on how they want their  experience to be right I'll never like send them   to just do a job like I would an employee it's  more like what what are you interested in what   are your goals what do you what would you like to  get out of this experience and I would still do   that with an employee um but you just have to be  very clear set the boundaries set the expectations   have clear communication and if there ever is like  a gray area or a breakdown then you need to have   that conversation I think right then and there and  to make sure that it's just it's just Clarity and   like you can go so far as to like have a contract  and have something written out where it's like   here's the situation if you're a volunteer here's  the expectations here's what's not expected if   you're an employee here's the expectations  if you're someone coming in and being like   an entrepreneur or you're sharing the land well  then here's the expectations involved with that   and I think it's just setting those boundaries  being clear yeah it makes me think like you can't   expect a volunteer to function like employe no and  I think that's a mistake some people make like an   employee you can you can be a bit more like like  you know like I need this done and like I expect   you to to try hard there's more accountability  work like if it's tough I kind of expect you   a bit to like try and try to work through that  that's kind of what this is we're doing physical   labor yes but if it's a volunteer you knowre you  shouldn't have that same expectation I think or if   you do you're probably just not going to get what  you want no and you have to be very careful too   when you're bringing on employees and volunteers  as we've talked about there's a whole social   Dynamic there right like people have feelings  people have egos and so you have to be able to   you have to be the type of person that's willing  to manage that and often times like volunteers   even employees can be more work than they're good  for sometimes and so it takes away sometimes from   the work that could be getting done because you're  managing relationships so you have to factor that   in and you have to know that is that something  you're willing and capable of doing before you   take that on and I think you want to set up  some systems in place to be able to do that   and structure it in a way that it just makes it  easier on you um and then you know the difference   between volunteers and employees sometimes too is  I try not to put any volunteers in like key points   of the operation like I typically wouldn't have  a volunteer like washing a packing or seating a   bed or transplanting a crop like even an employee  I typically have the the the real add value jobs   I try to do myself we're small like it's me and  a couple of employees but at a bigger scale you   can't really do everything yourself yeah but it's  also identifying like what people are capable of   doing what their skill set is giving them a role  they're going to flourish in because there's   nothing worse than giving somebody a job to do  and then you know you're paying them to do that   and it's not being done well or something like  that so training is important educating them is   important being there to support them is important  giving them the right tools and making sure you   can manage it before you think about doing it I'm  going to check the camera because we're losing   light people I just want to make sure we're not  not sitting in the dark oh we're getting there   okay we're back I took off my filter hopefully you  can see us not sitting in the dark cuz the Sun is   going down uh Ryan I think that's going to wrap  it up nice obviously we could keep talking about   this forever starting a farm can be amazing but  it can also be so difficult and I think there's   so many different contexts of PE of starting  farms and and so I really have liked hearing   what you have to say about that do you have any  kind of if you could let's say this if you could   give a just like a kind of final piece of like  really big picture advice to someone that's just   interested in in having a farm of their own  of any kind I'll take it back to I think what   we started with is understand your why know why  you're doing what you're doing know why you want   to farm because it's a grind man and day to day  week to week month to month season to season it's   it's up and down there's highs and lows it's the  best thing ever some days and some days you want   to quit and if if you don't have a good why you  can't bear the many house in which you can do it   and so understand why it is you're do you're doing  what you're doing why you want to start a farm   and carry that with you every day because that's  the thing that keeps you going when it's when the   things are bad and that's the thing that makes you  feel great and on top of the world when things are good great last words I think for this  conversation thank you thank you Ryan   thank you Chris thanks for having  me and we'll see you on the next one

Channel: Market Gardener Institute

Views: 6,372

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Id: o5BqdACC3mU

Length: 45min 41sec (2741 seconds)

Published: Wed Jan 10 2024