The Book Club: Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen with Abigail Shrier

welcome back to the book club I'm Michael Knowles this month we are going to be talking about Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen which is a book that men and boys in particular don't want to read but is actually one of the greatest novels of all time we will get into it I'm joined by Abigail Schreyer a journalist and the author of the upcoming book irreversible damage due out in June from Regnery Abigail thank you for being here thanks for having me I have to confess I've read Pride and Prejudice three times first time I read it I didn't like it second time I read it I still didn't like it the third time I read it I loved it how's that it's it's a work for a mature man it really is anyone who really wants you know to see inside a woman's psyche you know to get inside her heart in mind this is the book to do it and and I think that's the sort of thing that can benefit you know everyone I mean you know you you see this actually Jane Austen actually deals with that in the book she sort of ridicules Collins is one of the characters in the book who says you know I don't read fiction yeah of course he watched him spend the rest of the book suffering for the fact that he doesn't care about human relationships and he's left with obsequious Ness and you know slavish devotion is his only is the only arrow in his quiver can you very quickly I obviously this is a very complex novel but can you very quickly give a summary that the novel begins with one of the most famous lines in literature it is a truth universally acknowledged to the single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife however little-known the feelings reviews of such a man maybe on his first entering a neighborhood this truth is so well fixed in the minds of the surrounding families that he is considered the rightful property of someone or other of their daughters I mean that's what's so amazing about it right it's obviously tongue-in-cheek there's real wisdom in it true because there's truth in it I mean Jane Austen is full of these nested truths look this is the story of the five Bennet girls and and their family and they are facing calamity in the you know countryside of England and the calamity is that their estate has been entailed through the male line which means the property rules governing their estate I mean that it can only be inherited by males on in their family so they're about to lose when their father dies they will lose their house they will lose everything and they are facing poverty in 19th century England they're facing a start we're talking about nothing like we could imagine a starvation disease early death so they are they are up against formidable odds and the person the only person really in a position to save them is Elizabeth Bennett and she does it through her wit her intelligence her deep moral sensitivity and thoughtfulness and her thoroughgoing rationality so Elizabeth Bennett is the second eldest of the daughters yes the eldest is Jane she's the most beautiful she's like the prom queen and Elizabeth is a little tougher right she's the most judgmental most judgmental most prejudiced right I don't know if I called it the prom queen because Jane is actually very deep as well and it has a lot of wisdom which what she has is a lot of acceptance and forbearance she really is willing to roll with what life hands her hmm Elizabeth very much is not and this is why she's our heroine she's every bit the heroine of Odysseus or Aeneas or any Robinson Caruso but what she battles of course her theater is not a is not war right but it's a different sort of war it's a war and the English countryside of balls and Holmes in which she must fight for for the opportunity to secure her family through marriage because she's got this you might say nagging mother this but she the mother has the best interests of her daughter I think somewhere at heart which is she's trying to marry off her daughter she's constantly trying to encourage the daughters to get married she's got this sort of absent father who indulges his daughters he's not paying close attention and then these rich guys come to town you've got the rich guy mr. Bingley who's very affable nice guy and you've got the rich guy mr. Darcy who is the most important male character in the novel and Darcy is rude he's prideful he's judgmental he doesn't make a good first impression and yet by the end of the novel spoiler alert Elizabeth Bennet ends up with mr. Darcy and their prejudices have been smashed as has their pride right and they and they reach a point of mutual admiration and you're absolutely right she's saddled with a fool for a mother an ineffectual and and and distant father and she has to save the entire family and she does it's funny and in certain ways the book seems archaic right we don't go to balls anymore and women aren't you think well women aren't judged in this way well anyone who would say that really isn't paying attention of course because of course they are there's a ball that never ends and we call it social media and it's it's an Caroline Bingley always shows up you can never escape her we know what she thinks because she tells all her friends all your friends so Caroline is the sister of this rich guy she's mean and she's cruel he's in parole and she makes right and in this game for social status and social acceptance she is devastating and she fights with all the you know classic female tools of ostracism and you know rumor and all you know and put downs of various kinds and social slights and this is what happens to young girls on social media every day the only cruel thing about is they can't escape right and and and and they never need wonder sort of how much less pretty who they are than the next girl so if social media provides the math right you just subtract the likes well this is what what really got me to start appreciating Pride and Prejudice is that it's it is mostly about women it's about this the desires of women and the status of women but it's about it's so full of action even though nothing really happens it's so rich in tension and drama and action but it's about the private lives in this private sphere and dinners and teas and balls of these girls in the English countryside I mean that's exactly right right high school boys denigrate it they say oh nothing happens right we want the Iliad we want that adventure right but but what are the hospitals of our lives they're mostly social right right they're mostly about people who don't like us or don't esteem us or try to keep us out or tried to hold us back or try to keep us down that's those are the real battles of the modern life and they're the battles that Elizabeth must fight and it's a very serious work in the sense that it's all taking place talking about people's manners and how polite or rude they are and a little biting comment here or there but really the the novel isn't just about manners it's about virtue you know the the philosopher Alistair McIntyre who wrote a another great book called after virtue he said that Jane Austen in Pride and Prejudice and other books is the last great imaginative voice on the subject of virtue everything in this book keeps coming down to to virtue you know she even says when she's concluding what makes a marriage work she says how little of permanent happiness could belong to a couple who were only brought together because their passions were stronger than their virtue and this idea of virtue keeps coming back and it I mean I guess it comes back to the the very title of the book which is pride the queen of all vices and and how virtue can be contrasted with that yeah I think that's right I mean you know too often this book gets dismissed I I think that because it is about things like virtue it's about human relationships oh who cares about those right they're only the most defining features of our lives right Oh marriage that's not a consequential decision right women should care more about what their careers I mean what are the things that matter most to us it's the relationships we have with people it's those that's is what makes life worth living right I mean what we might admire Elizabeth Bennett more if she spent her life defending the International copyright of Pizza Hut is that a little more valor that's what modern society says right that's what modern society says and how ridiculous is that right what she cares about is the things that so many women have carried about for so long and and are the most important things which are love relationships marriage children all sorts of you know virtue all the things that matter most are the things that so many women have naturally cared about and are too often denigrated today and it's not merely a complacent book about women's private lives right it really it's a book about these women overcoming so much overcoming social stigma overcoming scandal overcoming foolish parents over cut and and ultimately overcoming the self with what's so striking about this something I think high schoolers often miss is the centrality of self-knowledge I think maybe the most famous line in the book or at least in the top five is when Elizabeth realizes that she misjudged mr. Darcy she misjudged so much of this situation she prejudge did she let her pride get in the way and she says how despicably I have acted I who have prided myself on my discernment I who have valued myself on my abilities who have often disdained the generous candor of my sister and gratified my vanity in useless or blameless mistrust how humiliating is this discovery yet how just a humiliation had I'd been in love I could not have been more wretchedly blind but vanity not love has been my folly pleased with the preference of one and offended by the neglect of the other on the very beginning of our acquaintance I have courted prepossession and ignorance and driven reason away where either were concerned till this moment I never knew myself that's exactly right I mean that's why we love her she's not perfect but she but the expectations for women that Jane Austen had could not be higher right they are they are absolutely I mean we see the fool that her what happens to her foolish sister who runs off with the first guy who's interested who is not of the best character you might say that character who's who's who has had a poor education and has never master you know managed any kind of self-governance and and and Pride and Prejudice takes a very hard stand against that yeah it sets very high expectations for these women and they deliver I mean Elizabeth certainly does and we admire her for that in with using humor and wit and and a lot of as you said self-consciousness she really succeeds in the end because at this moment where the the younger sister Lydia who is a flirt that's how she's described she always wants to be surrounded by these these men and flirting with them and she runs off with this shady character who on the surface is very charming and nice and seems like an upright guy and in reality he's rotten to the core so they they run off together and the other sister Mary is kind of like the moralizer of the book she reflects on this and says loss of virtue in a female is irretrievable that one false step involves her in endless ruin her reputation is no less brittle than it is beautiful she cannot be too much guarded in her behavior right before the undeserving but I don't think Jane Austen takes that for you know rice is just this is the prevailing lap time at the time right so Jane Austen's view is much deeper right right because Mary welcome Mary is very awkward she doesn't read social cues one gets the sense from the beginning she's she may be an old maid she really has struggles with people and she comes across as way too censorious and way not and certainly not understanding enough yes I think that's right I mean in certain sense what you said about Lydia's she's the modern woman right she goes to lift she doesn't care about marriage she's gonna run off with the future she's gonna go shack up with yes I live in the yep and and the problem is of course she's facing the ruination of her dignity her virtue and her social establish and and really financially of her whole family and for a guy who probably will never in fact we've told he tells us we'll never get around to marrying her he has no intention of doing so but she goes to live with him anyway this is not you know her future is not so bright and and in in many ways she's the modern woman in the book and an Elizabeth Bennet who fights for her dignity who with holds I mean imagine if Elizabeth Bennet had hooked up with Darcy when she first met him at the first ball there would be no book right because he has no esteem for her in the beginning he'd have no esteem for her in the end she wouldn't have won anything I mean we all win by withholding yes because at the first moment that our two two main characters meet Elizabeth and Darcy they don't particularly care for one another Darcy says that Elizabeth's kind of ugly not that impressive Elizabeth finds some hottie and prideful and awful and they both win each other over through these deeds of virtue you know it's interesting even on her sister Mary's point about virtue being lost in a woman the woman's lost forever that doesn't seem to be Jane Austen's view but Elizabeth does take it seriously enough that they are doing everything they can to win back this sister and not have her the become disreputable for the rest of her life and and this is another key difference in the book between appearance and reality so the appearance of having a lot of virtue in the reality and and really possessing virtue the appearance of being charming and evil it's often the most charming characters are the most rotten yes this is a book against curry empty charisma yes thank you no but that's exactly right I mean you know you know Kitty is facing nothing good I'm sorry Lydia is facing nothing good and and and and a lot of the reason is because she's a fool right she hasn't thought she hasn't really given much thought to the life she wants what she she's not a moral agent right and Jane Austen wants us to wants women to be moral agents to choose their life don't we to decide what kind of man they went up to end up with or woman you know whoever it may be and make a decision and go for it and not by giving in to every whim mhm and and to be a deep an old soul a serious person she draws the parallel to her parents to Elizabeth's parents who have this kind of unhappy marriage you know the father's checked out the mother is a lunatic and she attributes this unhappy marriage to just giving in giving in to passion not disciplining yourself she writes her father this is Elizabeth's father the appearance captivated by youth and beauty and that appearance of good humor which youth and beauty generally give had married a woman who's weak understanding and illiberal mind had very early in their marriage put an end to all real affection for her respect esteem and confidence had vanished forever and all his views of domestic happiness were overthrown to his wife he was very little otherwise indebted then as her ignorant and folly had contributed to his amusement it's a pretty harsh burn this is not the sort of happiness which a man would in general wish to owed to his wife so I think this is Jane Austen's answer to the man who says Oh fiction isn't for me who cares about love that's a woman's thing to worry about really I mean look what a mess this man has made of his life because of it yes he now is about to lose his family they are all going to for poverty after him he's suffering and he's he's whiffle I mean he doesn't respect or love really and and it's any it was all his doing by thinking it was he was too good to think about relationships to think about love to think about you know more morality I mean he was he's indifferent and now he's suffering for it why does the book endure why I mean it seems to be such a an affront to modernity you know it seems like all that kind of modern feminist yeah why on earth do people still read this it's a brilliant question because the question is right why would women and women love this book you know people love this but women love this book why would we love a book that's pre suffrage right pre feminism you know pre all of pre equality pre all these things and I think the answer is because while we have gained so much in modern life women have gained so much we also know recognize that there are things we have lost we recognize that Darcy if he exists would never marry her today he would just string her on forever and and that's the recognition that's sort of what that's what we're missing that's what women don't have today and and this this novel is a first glimpse at how to get there and a good reminder of what what was that that we shouldn't be so quick to give up it reminds me of studies that you see that over the past 50 years this always puzzles modern pundits because they say women's women's happiness should have increased they are materially so better off they have all these political rights now and yet their happiness both in absolute terms and relative to men have declined sharply and they say why on earth has this happened and seems to me what you're suggesting is this gives us a glimpse that really our happiness is not going to be measured by some political slogan or by some material good it's going to be measured by something deeper more private more spiritual more of greater bearing to the interior life that's exactly right and you know you see that you they do these studies in Sweden why why do women still not go into STEM fields as often in Sweden or and in these Nordic countries and they don't because women actually have preferences and you can belittle their preferences you can tell them they all need to be in stem they all need to be coding but actually there are there are things women prefer not every woman wants to be jeff bezos right for some reason right every woman is being chastised we need to lean in more stop spending time with your children well women actually have things they prefer and they aren't necessarily what men prefers and that's fine yeah it's I mean even that that difference between the public you know being the CEO of Amazon right and the private so much of the novel not only does it take place in over tees and dinners and walks in the garden so much of it takes place in letters this private personal correspondence when I read it I automatically think of my time with my best friend in college all the things we had discuss how could she date him we we like our friend how could she fall for such a guy with a horrible guy what a loser he is or whatever and reconciling that and trying to understand be learning you know starting out very judgmental and learning to be a little less judgmental that's it it's such an important process for a young woman and and it's it gives you so much those friendships are so important and you know you know they do these studies every every decade or so they ask you know men who their best friend is most men name their wives and they ask women and most women name another woman yeah and the reason is is because women excel at friendship we're really good at it and it's really important to us and we tend to favor very often people jobs jobs that focus on relationships you know we like writing novels you know and we love reading them and that's just something that we should really stop denigrating so much of course and it even strikes me that one's prejudiced approaching the book which is that this will be some frivolous no I mean men don't like reading novels anyway but there really won't be much of value to it by the end even the prejudice of the reader is changed because you realize you're dealing with a work in a way of moral philosophy and certainly a work of deep gravity and probing of human nature I think so I think every man out there who you know maybe didn't like it in high school should give it another shot and and every woman should read it for just for the tremendous pleasure if for no other reason that it will give us finally some glimpse into the absolutely inscrutable female psyche which which is practically very useful yes what Abigail thank you so much for being here yeah we could go on forever but we've got to go on this episode of the book club be sure to tune in next month in the meantime I'm Michael Knowles happy reading thank you so much for watching this episode of the book club on Prager you Prager you is a 501 C 3 nonprofit organization so we rely on donations from viewers like you to keep this content on the air please consider making a tax-deductible contribution today to help keep this content coming thank you very much you

Channel: PragerU

Views: 399,623

Rating: 4.9071183 out of 5

Keywords: prageru, prager university, michael knowles, abigail shrier, book club, reading, books, classic lit, literature, jane austen

Id: JlYm93QiVNY

Length: 21min 5sec (1265 seconds)

Published: Tue Mar 17 2020