The Bernard Purdie Interview: Steely Dan, Aretha Franklin & "The Purdie Shuffle"

hey everybody i'm rick biato when i sat down to make my top 20 drum grooves of all time video this was actually the easiest list to make since the first three grooves numbers one and two and three are all based on the purdy shuffle the first one being steely dan's home at last which is the original pretty shuffle and then you have rosanna by jeff piccaro which is a variation of the pretty shuffle and also fool in the rain which is john bonham's variation of the purdy shuffle well last week i had the incredible honor of interviewing bernard at the power station in new york city this is a long video so i suggest watching it in segments and i want to remind people to subscribe to my channel and hit the like button before you even begin i actually start out with bernard when he shows up at the studio getting his drums taped up and tuned up i thought it was interesting so i included it before the video begins here's my interview tell me what you're looking for with that as far as the hi-hat the tightness of it i'm looking click more of the click this you know it basically has everything is a little tight much too tight so i don't get the a little bit of an overtone [Music] this is fine here but i got to do something with this hi-hat [Music] this is this is the problem when they came out with synthesize these everybody thinks that the bigger it is and when you can keep it tight you can control it um all you've done is taken all of the overtone and ring where you want this to be because as this is right now very little control is gonna happen and that is that's the natural sound yeah but in order to have it that way you gotta leave a little bit of space yeah just a little bit just enough yeah i used to tear up a t-shirt and that goes back 40 plus 40 plus years and it worked it just worked because the engineers that i have especially rca and columbia the big studios yeah whoa what a difference you know and didn't have that overtone and that ring that kept going yeah so they um [Music] they did everything [Music] okay ah there you go all right so with that in mind where it was yep oh no closer i was closer [Music] uh to the ridge and then i didn't have to tape it down i just let it hang would let it hang and just only the tape would be approximately one inch and would the microphone typically be there is that where people would mic mic the snare mic back then or no yeah the snare mic mine were good for the snare and the hi-hat right nobody would use a hi-hat mic back then right no nobody right [Music] hey everybody it's my honor to have one of the greatest drummers that's ever lived mr bernard purdy oh as my guest today bernard it's so unbelievably great to have you here and i've been actually filming bernard with my phone as he was tuning up the drums and getting the drums set and i learned so much about this i actually want to talk about this first talk about what you were saying about the hi-hat as far as adjusting the hi-hat and the clutch and however how that talk about that i thought that was so interesting well thank you thank you first of all the clutch on the uh hi-hat the taller one is the worst kind simply because you're taking the volume you're taking the time wise you want less and less and less of overtone and ring right is what you're looking for yeah so if you can keep it tight so the better clutch itself works better yeah it just works so much better i know that most of the crutches that they make now are long and it's almost almost two inches long yeah they need to go back to making shorter ones you have if you really want to get down to the nitty-gritty right and keep things tight yeah because everything everything that you do the tighter you are able to keep it the smoother it's going to come out okay speaking of tightness let's talk about the drums too you talked about the snare for example you used to use t-shirts at first and then you went to you have paper towels on there now well talk about the overtones and why you want to re why you want to get rid of these things well you you only want to get rid of when you don't have it right the biggest problem is is that when i started bringing things down and adjusting yep it was a t-shirt that i had to cut up yeah so i couldn't keep cutting up t-shirts all around the world so i had to go to paper towels yeah and you got to be very very careful even with paper towels yeah you can't use two three four five paper towels right because eventually you're gonna hit it and you're going to bring things down so you're going to have to change until it comes back to a certain sound that you want that you're looking for that sound is what you're going to consider no matter what it is overtone and ring you do not want anything to take you too long to get to when you would be in a session would you go and listen to a playback and say oh i want to adjust this this needs to sound more like this or how would you do it we just do your one take and you'd be out of there well most of the time we didn't get more than one tape okay so the thing is is that i ended up working with engineers yeah they were always the big time engineer the big studios columbia rca capital atlantic it didn't matter the thing was is that i was creating my own sound right so i wanted it to always be what i sound like when i play yeah so in order to do that i had to adjust i always had to end up adjusting to the sound of the drum set itself now at the time all right the 22 inch was still the big thing 24 was on its way out to do it right 26 was almost gone right but 22 was all tightness you still had an overtone you still had a ring yeah so in order to manufacture constantly the same i had to adjust and i adjusted with a t-shirt to get the base part that i wanted and the base part allowed me to just to uh demonstrate yeah always cutting the ring totally in half yep but the other part of that is that when i wanted to do something else and not go here with the i could also get almost the same right with the cross stick there was a lot of work that i did with cross stick yeah and so much of the work that i'd end up doing with crosstick is because the purdy shuffle came into the picture and they didn't know what it was but it was already working and it was working on ballots and it turned everybody's head because they didn't know where it was coming from they didn't understand that i could keep that kind of feel going on and be happy because it was a happy feel so in the beginning you know a lot of guys just [Music] well it's close but i call it no cigar because i did not want it just on the snare right i needed the hi-hat to go with it as well right so [Music] hey [Music] keeping it simple yep there used to be a stain keep it simple stupid not calling anybody but just keep it simple that's all just think simple and you place it and it all comes together let's talk about the ghost notes the rebounds how that how that adds to the groove well that'll add about 50 of the feel yeah ghost notes or ghost notes it has absolutely nothing to do with when people thinking that you you gotta play off [Music] no no no no it is not about [Music] i started off with the ghost notes in the beginning i started off with the bass drum right then i came up to the snare drum then i came over top of everything else when i needed to make a fill to whereas most of the fills was not i did that in the beginning right because that was natural that was normal yeah but what mine became natural and normal was this you cut out all of the double time right and you only end up using one beat to a beat and a half that's it stays out of the way stays out of the way that's right and this way when you hear that the singers love it because you're not in their way that's right and they get happy yeah man everybody stays happy it made my job easier but it also made the engineers job work because it gave that little lift it's all about everybody being happy no matter who is singing or playing there's always a problem when too many people are trying to give you a fill trying to give you their thing guitar players they will take in a minute now when you got something slow you don't get a beat and a half right you get boop bap and that end up on the downbeat of the one with everything else still going on i want to play you something that of course that you played on here when i play this for you [Music] do you remember being there oh yeah [Music] okay i want to ask you about this okay you're tracking this who's playing with you on this hi chuck rainey yeah in the bass yep paul griffin yeah on keyboard are you playing to a click track no not in the beginning okay so what would you do would you count this off or what would the piano enter or was there no piano even on it not in the beginning piano had the field that it wanted yep paul griffin played the licks that were necessary that was needed yep my job is to still keep it moving and stay out of the way do you even know what the song sounds like when you're doing your basic track though oh yes okay oh yeah you so you have you have a you have an idea what kind of where where are you going to play what the feel is are you even talking to the guys before this and you say okay this is i know you explained them this is what i i watched them talk about it about you said why don't we try the pretty shuffle the funny part is that even then most of the people did not understand what the purge shuffle was about so the purdue shuffle works it works with anybody at any time but the one thing that is so important is you cannot do this fast it's half time right it's cut in half whatever your tempo is it's cut in half and it always sounds like a ballad you know it came from the triplet it came from the upbeat it came to the downbeat it came all the way around but also the ghost note and when i first started doing this [Music] even when you're doing it easy [Music] it's a two bar phrase that two ball praise gives you the backbeat on three of each bar so if you relax you'll get it all simple and not worry about how many or how much of the feel and attitude that you're looking for you'll think about everybody else in the band to stay out of their way because the less that you do the better it's going to be but we've got to remember the bass player the keyboard got that and the base is moving it's moving and then when you come out of a verse and go into a course you add just a little bit more right and you add that back beat coming down on three of the bar and it doesn't matter whether you're doing it with your hands or not or whatever it's gonna be heard one two three four one two three four [Music] those ghost notes let them stay ghost notes right let it stay you don't have to play the exact same thing every time you don't you just play it so it moves it goes with the body it goes with the flow and when it goes with the flow you build the song until you come into that heavy backbeat and then when you want to get to where it's going to have a break or you have going to have something one of the things oh instead of playing that yep [Music] one note at a time yeah well then it's those speak when you when you have one note at a time it's got so much clarity exactly when you were in the session recording this how far are you and chuck apart sitting there are you in separate rooms iso booths are you are you looking at each other is he playing this far away from you what were those sessions like they usually he's like where you are like you're sitting here he's sitting here with his base and you're looking at him up just a little bit like this okay so i don't have to turn my head on my body yeah i can see him just like this yep the keyboard is usually over here on this side yeah the guitars when they're playing with us and how often was that when the guitars were playing very often or no on these steely dancers not necessarily together yeah but the ones that could hold their own did their part yeah because they could always fix theirs not so much where the base in the piano is but they can always fix the guitar stick it in stick it out and move it around it was just a way of life now would you read charts or would they play you a demo of the song or would they have a chart for you that would be sitting right here what would you do tell me how tell me the process of doing a song like this home at last well home at last like most of steely dad you had two three four different bands that played the song right they weren't happy with what they were getting yeah because it wasn't working that way because they didn't want to shuffle they didn't want this they didn't want that and then i finally told them i said it's the purdy shuffle no we don't want to shuffle i said but you haven't heard it listen to it first then you'll hear where we're coming from half time is half time but the feel of it gives chuck rainey a chance to bounce yep gives paul griffin a chance to bat everybody's got the part and then we all lock in just like this and i don't care how many instruments they want to put on they've got room they have so much space and there's so much space yeah having that positive attitude about your feel of what you're doing is everything everything you and i were talking a few minutes ago about jeff piccaro and rosanna well he used to come and watch me play when i go to california yep i was working with his father yep we were doing movies we were doing recording sessions and we were everything you name it it was getting done his father was also one of the big big contractors but he was also the main person when it came to movies because he played so many different instruments to make all these sounds happen and that's why we work so well together but his son used to sit on the floor right behind me every job that i did with his father in california he'd be there and when the breaks and stuff would come he asked me the questions purdy well how did you do this why did this such and stuff and i didn't mind i didn't mind never did because i had been teaching for a long time but the beauty of it was watching him and the break we'd go out and have some lunch or something he'd be sitting down there learning how to do it and not being even though he was reversing and putting it on the one right instead of the three yeah the end the base had to think differently right but then you also the piano had to think differently as well right because the one is almost like doing and coming into reggae coming to something calypso some right whole different ball game right but he had foresight to see that music and let that one happen with him and people it just turned everything around but it was it was the pretty shuffle playing differently and it worked like that's why the song is still so big today that you have millions yeah but that's the beauty of it when you take something and you recreate and make it work for something else that you're doing and he did so i want to play you another track here that that is you that that i love [Music] [Applause] okay so when you're here when you hear this then they just put you in a a great mood it's a great mood because you hear every instrument separately yes but when you put it together yep it's a monster it is a monster and i get a chance to play everything everybody's part right piece of everybody and i loved it there's a fill that you do right here [Music] okay all right let's talk about that hi-hat phil that's that's that's unbelievable i'm playing i'm gonna play it again hold on okay so how did that become a signature kind of fill for you with that with a high hat like well that particular one was when i had an opening closing of the hi-hat when that whole thing was happening for me it was something that was steady very steady in and out and nobody's way right it's going to be heard it's going to be understood by everybody because that's it happened to be a fill that is workable and you can overplay it if you want it's still gonna sound so good it was that circle that i put into the music that became life for so many other drummers of the world yeah they play that it's just tightness but you got to be very very careful about your hi-hat and the tighter you can keep this the better it is because it's out of the way and it works every time now is this something you just stumbled on improvising when you were doing a session or is this something you worked on you were like how do i how do i put this put something like that in me everything that i do i worked on it a lot of it didn't work in the beginning because it was like over playing yeah but when guys started to hear where it was placed they found other places where they could do something and that is how this that particular part of the beat in and out it's a 16th note end up closing yep with the sound the sound itself tight so in order to make sure that it was tight you just can't have a hi-hat that's loose unless you hear it but when it is super tight you don't have to do it loud right it comes it comes right at you it comes at you and it works like a charm and word works the most playing disco okay they took that that's the sound of disco right there that's right and the bass drum [Music] one two three four one two three four then what i started doing is not just that yep i would do half as much on the bass drum and end up tighter tighter so this would take part the second part and i could do my bass drum like this and the engineers they loved it because there was nothing in the way right and the folks got their thing when it came down to this school the beat you're 110 to 120 disco and that went good 10 years a good 10 years until things started changing again you know before all of that the shuffle and the plain old shuffle the blues and all everything work keeping it simple in this song you're coming up to the solo you have this build you know there's going to be a solo there and you you you want to do something special there right i'm going to play it again bernard because it's so amazing [Music] that's the perfect spot right before the right before the guitar solo i mean it's it's a perfect lead-in it's a hook it's a hook it's a hook and it's like you said it's selenium it's a lean in and it's out of the way now did you just play it the first time yes you did right yes i did you did only one take probably the point is is that it only takes one tape one take is what it does because eventually no matter what working with steely then you're going to play 50 to 75 takes right that's what that was just known throughout the the whole rumor for the business and what happened with me once we got it yeah and i'm happy with it then i would tell them i said okay we got it now all prepared with i said no no no hear me out all i just want to let you know that it's in the first take the second or the third you can do as many as you want i don't care but you're gonna go back to the first second and the third because that's where everybody writes everybody is on and no matter what we do now you know it we don't always hit it is that one time where everything works like a charm for everybody everybody is perfect and it always works and that's where my big mouth came in i couldn't help myself i just i just want them to know that they have it but now you can do as many takes you want and they did we've done up to 100 takes in some things hey they paid well they did not argue about how long of the time or anything else they did what they had to do and we got paid well for doing our job there's another song on that record that is to me now i have the solo drum track of this oh you do i do yeah oh really yeah let's see if this plays here that whole thing is chuck great [Music] a tempo like this too is the hardest to play it is that's like that is such a hard tempo to to groove on and you're killing it there why is it such a hard tempo because it's that mid-tempo kind of uh it is mid-tempo but that the problem is is that when somebody gets happy the temple rises and if you rise you're you're coming out of the groove of everybody right chuck granny on that on that base it just works the guitar it works now they have to usually have to stay where they are for practically the whole track but then they know that they can come in and add something else yeah paul griffin never had to worry he get his right from chuck we all did so chuck would give me the chance and the opportunity to make sure that i get a little filled in but i hold everybody together that's my job i become mr temple yeah i become the click track because i wasn't using the click track then i didn't use it and when chuck wants to go up you know slide up here oh yeah and you're looking at him too when you're playing you guys are looking at each other i'm looking at him and and ready to smack him and it gives him a chance to play his part get his little thing in and and we just follow one another paul griffin he just i've never seen anybody anybody play the piano and come down like this he comes down like this and he's always right we back each other up and then i don't have to do anything but keep the time tick tock tick tock tick tock and i don't need the click track but as time went on because they wanted the click track to put other instruments in i was just going to ask you that when they insist on no problem you do a take like this it may be the first or second take whatever would you listen back to take after you do whenever you don't listen oh yes you go back and you say oh i like this i like this and would you talk about it i didn't talk and you guys would talk or would you donald say when they want something you don't you know you don't talk and just don't worry about just that you just don't talk because they want another take the same right then and there they okay fine would you have the tempos locked in i can only remember one time that they asked for it to be a little faster yeah but not this song when i found out that they had already pre-recorded the songs with other bands whole bands yeah and they didn't particularly like it but they loved the temple yeah so the only thing that they would do is they sometimes you want to give me the click about this i said okay all right that's what you want but i tell you when they go and they start listening everything they listen and they listen and before you know it 15 20 minutes have gone by right that's how many times they listen they look at each other and they said and they start smiling they actually would you be sitting out at your drum still while they're listening no when they start listening we realize that they are they're there i want to ask some technical questions so we talked a little bit earlier you're talking about kick drum size 20 inch 18 inch tell me about how your uh that would develop what is your preferred bass drum size why do you put your why do you have your larger time to smaller tom there tell me how that developed oh that part the towns yeah just let's work it just and everybody at the time that we were doing things right that was it it's just less work right and you don't have to worry about rushing everybody rushes fills they do it automatically because they want to get in and get out right but you don't have to worry either one it's the same thing only it's not rubbly it's smooth right you know and that's how i got around doing that figure you're not gonna get all that it it just doesn't hold because somebody else is gonna be playing something differently over there right guaranteed right so if you're going to make it work keep it as simple as possible talk about the kick drum what do you prefer 20 or 18 i prefer the 20 okay i did the 18 i did that only because here we go again yep guys who like certain things and they wanted a jazzy thing yeah it's more like a bebop bebop kit that's what they call it but not necessarily when they start hearing funk coming out of these little drum sets yeah it all came down to what it resolved what feel attitude and how it was recorded yeah the recording is always how it's recorded to stay out of the way the 20 inch had a fat had a really really fat dude you can get this [Music] and when you want to do something else [Music] keep it simple and when it stays that way for any length of time you know they liked it oh that oh they like that so they they keep it up and for the half to almost all of the song because they got something now that particular beat at that uh pace that's not the disco beat right so [Music] god [Music] [Music] you can do anything you want it'll work if you don't over play keep it simple right back to that same old keep it simple stupid why the china symbol china when i started learning about the china i did like everybody else i turned this upside down yeah but mr zildjian yep is the one who showed me that mr purdy i love the way you play i love your sound but i want to show you something and he had no sticks in his hands and he'd do this oh that's nice nice then i asked him i said why didn't you use the six he said i didn't have to you want to hear the symbol or do you want to crash the symbol you can crash it you can do anything you want but if you really want to understand what the symbols are about is where you actually play it here is the best sound of the sun that's the real sound of symbol whether it goes up or it goes down china right here right here on the what we call the shoulder yeah and then when you want to sneak something else in you go up a little higher and then you don't have as much overtone and much ring and you go up a little bit higher you can do three four different ones before you come all the way up keep it simple keep it simple that way you control all of the sounds and the things that you want everybody that turns this upside down you're gonna get one sound that's right that's all you're gonna get so i don't care who you are what you do that's all you're gonna get because it's a china boy and that's how you play it just [Music] bernard how important is it to balance yourself in the room that's everything right that's everything i learned that from the engineers the engineers have always been around long before me now they know what works and what doesn't work for the room i had to learn how to control everything in the beginning i had put tape on the top or put tape underneath to lose so much of the overtone and that overtone was the ring i did all that in the beginning and then i had to ask myself the sound that i'm hearing do i like it or will this work because in the beginning for the first few years the drums were not up so i started figuring out let me try some tape let me try a little tape whether i tried it on top or underneath i just wanted to get rid of some of the overtone and the ring and once i did that the engineers oh yes we love it we love it but i thought that the sound was but i understood them because then they could put something else in because it's not taking up so much space exactly right are there songs that you hear back that you think oh i don't like that drum sound on that things that you've played on or ones that you say even better yet what are what are some songs that you say i love that drum sound are there ones that come to mind i got the sound that i wanted from rca colombia allegro then it was generation and it was broadway that all of them and over rudy van gildes once i got myself into them and they like what they heard i know that the drums are gonna be on top you're gonna hear the drums no matter what because i kept it simple so i noticed that you don't bury the beater on that you you come off the head on the kick drum exactly exactly talk about that about the tone about how it changes the tone by not bearing the beater well not not only does it not it doesn't change the tone but it makes and it gives them a chance to turn it up right more volume and this way it fits the whole set you want everything to fit and you want it to work together here this figure here that'll work every time that i want to play a particular fill and nothing else is happening especially when if you got horns on it and you got background singers i'll stick that in and know that yes that's going to stay that's going to stay no matter how many tracks they put on it no matter how many tracks because it works and they can put something on top they can put something underneath all right on after a while i lost it gets lost yeah very simple for me it beat in the half is all i would use to make a fill but i make that thing so dynamic just that one time when something happens and this way they don't have to push the beat up and they can work with it and when they get it they got it when you're playing on the kick too you're using a lot of dynamics in the bass drum a lot of dynamics yes i love engineers who are listening to what i'm doing and i love them when they feel that if something is overpowering or overshadowing at a particular section they know how to pull it down but they they they don't do this they just bring it back a little bit a little bit and they get the dynamics of it because it's not over shattering it's you never overshadow the lead you very seldom ever ever overshadow the background singings horn players if you're smart you listen to where the horn players got figures that they're doing and you play part of their figure at the end of the phrase for example for example [Music] it's out of the way of the horns and old-fashioned shuffle oh you know when the horns gonna do their things did it did it did it did it you get something like that that's like oh yeah that that you know you just get happy i oh never overshadow that lick because that lick let it come through and then all of a sudden the drums come through ooh enhance that you think as a as an arranger and you think because of being a studio drummer for so many years you know how these parts are going to work with the song later on when all when everything is put on this and you know okay i'm going to take these spots just like in green earrings there you knew that you had that spot before the guitar solo do that build up and put your hi-hat in there but that's the fill you didn't have to play a fill exactly that's the fill and it only needed to be that the other part of that which is why and how i recorded so much is that i'd walk over to the piano and see what the arrangement was see it hear it play it and only play the end of it not the whole thing let the horns have their thing and when they finish you know whether that that it you know my high hat could be right in the middle of it better better catch it on the end and fill it just just enough to bring everything together to satisfy everybody the arranger he's going to be happy because he's getting the figure that he wrote and it's been enhanced by me of playing a little bit of it yes i read music but i had to understand what all the other stuff went about it took years for people to really know that i did because they didn't think so they thought that i just memorized so much of it i thought okay as long as you call me that's fine right but when i needed to know something when i walk in the studio i go look and i start smiling the horn players always had good licks it's just something that it would always stand out so my teacher mr haywood he did the same thing now i didn't really know what he was doing in the beginning but i always knew when he would end up coming out and being endings with the horns the singers the background singers they also had to come out and come in and give something so everybody had a place so that's what i would do i would go over look at the piano chart and you can see where it came in the figures that they're going to do you don't want the horns to be overkill because the man wrote it they wrote it out that's a figure that they want yep let it happen and what are the things that your teacher would have you work on what was it like for example what would be the would he say these are the kind of grooves that that i want you to work on like what kind of things would you practice rudiments what would you do i would tell it in the book [Laughter] okay i want to play a couple other things today's special is memphis soul stood we sell so much of this people wonder what we put in it we're going to tell you right now give me about a half a tea cup a base now i need a pound of fat back drum [Applause] [Music] now give me four tablespoons of ball and memphis guitars it's gonna taste alright [Music] this is so great that is so groovin i love this and i love the sound of that the drums on that are hard panned to one speaker on this recording les paul son was the engineer at atlantic records we did this in california we had already done some recording with other pieces of music with curtis with his things yep we talked and he did pan he did after panning bam he went back to the middle so if this was heard on am radio and mono that it would sound right right is that was that what that was one of the things about this yes yes so that they would they would put it back and then it would sound good whether it was in stereo or in mono and the drums would be right on always center my job was to keep it moving and keep it happening so they put me back in the center do you think that this that sound because of the tighter sounds the more controlled sounds by deadening the toms this is what made drums this is what actually brought drums up to the forefront in music in the 70s and you know on these records that we're talking about that people revere like the steely dan records that the drums are so important to it not just the groove not just how great the drum parts are but it's your sounds too in the way that you're playing them the tuning of the drums everything they were able to move it forward right and make it even more upfront than they than drums normally would be you're exactly right 100 but that was what we worked on this is kind of stuff that we used to have fun with he went to me it was his son yeah gene yep and we rehearsed in the room and he would record and he would record until he got it the way he wanted i mean this was like you know this is how things so he would practice this i mean he would he would actually work on the sounds by doing this he'd have you come in yes and would he try different micing and different distancing different different distances and like everything right his miking was always right on he understood because by this time we had been working together for a good five six years atlantic and we worked and had the sounds that we wanted let me ask you some specific things about this would would you typically have just one mic on the snare that would pick up the hi-hat yes right yes just the top snare top mic no snare bottom mic no and that would pick up the hi-hat that would pick up the hi-hat the snare he did use the mic underneath on the uh the bottom of the snare okay but it had to be down it wasn't the one that knocked everything else out because this height this one on top was the main part he pick up body the body of the snare was where they mic underneath the bass drum yep the microphone was over there and then he had a little mic over here but usually on this side so so in on this side of the kick drum bass drum but that is the one that was not the one that had the depth that would just give you the attack at the attack and that one on the other side yeah that gives you the tone and the fatness that's the fatness so we did all that and then we came down because especially here having the the two toms yep the two tentative and it was from underneath so we didn't have to worry about leakage up here right with the symbols why did people start miking from the top then when you have all the cymbal bleed well assembly it just makes so much more sense right nobody understood it because very few people made the drums as an attack it didn't right that within itself stopped a lot of things because aretha you know i know what she's going to do right and i know how to come in and out everything was different but curtis was so good at it that he could play and his would be added when when you actually added and you come down to the horn we were so tight nothing to get in the way and it would be a small amount and then when we go to the bridge we're sailing when were your first recordings in a recording studio what year right 1960 okay so in 1960 were they they weren't even miking that close were they no what would they have how many mics would they have on a drum kit i had three mic bass drum and and two overheads right bass drum and no not two two mics one here snare the hi-hat yep uh and then just one mono room mic or something or one one mic to catch the symbols to catch the symbols yeah but it was already mixed as uh not mono it wasn't it didn't sound like monster it was since it was still stereo because they have stereo imaging to them right because that's how they were using things yeah they used it so right here the mic that was the one mic would say one with three mics yeah one but three mics so the one here would be over all but the consistency of the pop and the snap right here on the snare mic that snare mic yeah that also took care of the hi-hat yeah and i got my first sounds and everything that that just that alone it was under control and i was doing it with balance okay so when did they start adding in more mics all that got added in when you you got to with the 70s is that exactly by the 70s yes but you had more mics did people start saying oh you know let's add a mic here let's say let's make the toms or when 67 when i made my first record my own yep there i had five different mics okay and where would those be uh bass drum yep here snare drum yep tom over here yep symbols and nothing else to go with it but he had a chamber he used the hall yup at his echo chamber so my first record was [Music] it was monster it was monster and right after that that chamber that was in this hallway of the studio from the sixth floor up i got so many records that all of a sudden the drums got put into a hollow cell but yet i didn't lose my back beat my cross stick was always there yep and my back beat was always because i come off of the drums always played off i never played to the point where you in the middle no always rip rim shot i have rim shots did you always play rim shots i played rim shots from the beginning okay but i had to learn how to put it in because no one else uh in the in the beginning there was mono right so i had to make it work for me yeah so i would play it to a certain point you know and because i was still playing uh crosstalk a lot you know just [Music] but i could do that tempo up you know didn't have to be laid back i could do it up and be on top of the beat which is why i was able to do the latin stuff being on top of the beat because practically everything in latin in order for drugs to work you got to be on top of the beat then i would also not not necessarily do here i would do quarters and [Music] i i would add things that way then right then you lay out just on me [Music] so [Music] you do whatever you have to do to keep the beat going you don't lay back wrong because when you start laying back that means you're pulling everybody out and then when i have to do dynamics and i have to push for quarter notes [Music] [Music] go anywhere i have to go being careful not to overplay with the congas on the temples we're doing the lead right because they have so many uh you need the space for those need the space yeah okay when you're doing cross stick and you're hitting the snare with the butt end of the stick right if if you're not playing a song with crosstick are you going to play with your with both sticks going in the same direction or do you like the sound of your of a rim shot with the using the the stick turned around the rim shot makes it easier for me yep but when i need to make the power yep it's a different sound using the the butt end of the stick exactly yeah you know i used to play just like everybody else yeah i played traditional conventional yeah traditional yeah and then i end up have because of playing latin yep and reggae and all that the quarter note was so important yeah at the time once established [Music] or [Music] i could do anything i want as long as i stayed out of the way of what the congas or timbales the ghost notes the rebounds do you call them rebounds when you're doing it when you're playing playing a shovel you call it a rebound right it's rebound rebounds you got to remember though you still got to remember not to over shatter maybe uh let me just show you yeah let me just show you [Music] so [Music] so [Music] so [Music] [Music] stay out of the way you can play as loud as you want as long as you out on the stage but when you in the recording studio you got to control everything and keep it down the latin thing was always the hardest to do always the jazz thing i just took myself back to what we were doing in the 40s and 50s that's all but then i started to learn to control everything no matter what it is i learned to control it because of the engineers took me right back to where all these other things came about control i loved it because they helped me they they really truly helped me and so i got used to the to the sound of the symbol having tape on it yeah so it did the ring was gone so you got and not the right the rolling things and i want it stop i want it so i controlled the ring by using tape whether i use it on top but most of the time i'd use it what would you use gaff tape yeah gap tape i had to learn how to to to adjust so i didn't use the wide one i just used it in half one part over here one part over here and not so much more on the top but underneath i'd have at least half one one two three wow four underneath wow wow but thin pieces though yeah the thin ones so the the ring would be gone right but i can get pam and you know you can crash it crash it and you get control so they didn't have to worry the engineers didn't have to worry if i got loud okay every studio that you would go in to record would you have a a specific spot where you knew the drum sounded best would the drums be set up would you set them up or would you walk around and figure out i mean would you say oh in this studio i always would set up here or would be different places all the time people didn't know that there was two different things happening it was called a guitar thing the amp they got amps that they put into 20 30 studios right from the amps then it came down to bass amps the guitar apps were first then the bass stamps and then became drums we had 28 sets of drums 18 to 20 studios okay we'd have it like body big old suitcase like you know with all the equipment in it yeah including cowbells including tambourines and everything else that's what we did we followed those guys we had to put the complete sets in a suitcase and then we would order the toms we would actually order the toms and they bring them up for this they would bring them up that's the carol music and the different ones they had four companies that's it at the time i had three of those sets put into three different studios two other guys had two and one other besides myself had three now would you walk in with your symbols or would the symbols be there would you rock them with just your sticks just nothing yeah you just walk in everything's there put the symbols and if some somebody else wanted to bring their own symbols yeah well first of all they couldn't use the drum set that's there okay what happened is that the engineers got a key made because so many guys didn't bring their symbols because they thought everything was okay right but it we lost control of it you know but i had a good four or five years with equipment that i kept in the studios and that's how often i was doing 20 dates a week that's what happened would you drive between studios if you were uh uh would you be booked in different studios in ever and it's in the same day i didn't have a car in the beginning i took the bus took the bus i took the bus and the bus driver it wasn't funny it was funny i was my apartment was on 104th street okay and broadway yeah uh the bus number 104 brings me all the way down to 42nd street so if i wanted to do something else i had to go over to seven uh over to amsterdam avenue to go further down right so i'm carrying the drones okay did you ever live in l.a or not no i was commuting to l.a okay i commuted to la for seven years i had a wonderful time i enjoyed it but i didn't want to live there right i was happy commuting yeah you know because they paid for everything the studios the record labels that i worked for i had 63 different labels no problem because i was making hits hits okay so i want to ask you about the hit maker about about your sign what did the sign say exactly you done hide the hit maker uh it it was really quite quite simple i end up with three different signs and alternating you know if you need me call me right to hit make it you done hired to hit me i just had fun i loved it so i had a good 15 to almost 15 20 years of straight of recording you always every time i see you every anytime i see you in a video and everything you're always in a great mood i'm happy i'm happy to be able to play and use the talent that was given to me but mr hayward who guided me to the right parts i mean in one sense i hated the man because he told me i was going to be teaching i want to teach because you say the same thing we got the week month after month and year after year right but the point is is that that's what i needed that's what i needed because it was there it was in in me it was all in me and i didn't know any better than to do i did what he said but i had to learn diplomacy because i had a big mouth and when i say big mouth i felt like god i'm not god i'm just good at what i do because i had to learn to be that way but my mouth got me into trouble many times it really did i had arranges that they arranged something and then you tell the arranger that it doesn't quite go with what you you don't do that you don't do that and i was right but the point is that you don't do it right you just don't do that so i had what two i only only about two arrangers who took me off their books and i really had to think oh hey man wait a minute i'm making a lot of money with this master what did i do wrong and you find out you find out because uh you know i i just know when something is right and you can't be so smart that you be right all the time and i was right all the time and i tell people i like to tell myself man my feelings and everything else my hands would go up and then what made it even worse my face you know and i'd end up doing this okay [Music] [Laughter] they yeah you into trouble i got myself into trouble and i i couldn't i had no other filter bernard what do you want your legacy to be i'd like to be the happiest drummer in the world father i'm concerned i love what i achieved that i love what i do i just received one of the first major major accolades in my hometown they put up a mural that's 15 almost 20 feet high it's on the wall in a new building that has uh just less than two years old and i'm like i can't believe i can't believe like i i just can't believe i was so happy i was i was crying the whole time when i just saw it huh and it's only two months two three months ago three months ago my hometown gave me a day burnout purdy day now next year coming a scholarship we're not scholarship excellent it's been such an honor to meet you and to sit a couple feet from you and hear you play when i've listened to you for the last 40 50 years play on records and thank you so much for doing this and i want to thank you for you know everything that you've asked me nobody nobody kept it that way you know i i've been i got myself into trouble a couple of times with different things [Music] this was open cool this was an open and shut case wonderful enjoyable glad to do it and you were smart enough you hit it right on there every time and i had to smile because nobody nobody has hit everything like it's supposed to be having this kind of interview was precious to me well i i i really appreciate it so much such an honor sir it's a pleasure for me [Music] you

Channel: Rick Beato

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Keywords: rick beato, everything music, rick, beato, music, music theory, music production, education, bernard purdie, purdie shuffle, bernard pretty purdie, the purdie shuffle, bernard pretty purdie (drummer), bernard purdie 16th notes, purdie shuffle lesson, purdie shuffle steely dan, purdie shuffle john bonham, jeff porcaro rosanna shuffle, john bonham, Home at Last, kid charlemagne steely dan, steely dan deacon blues

Id: 6uusF1iie88

Length: 82min 26sec (4946 seconds)

Published: Fri May 27 2022