The #1 Thing Blocking Your Success From Bestselling Author Steven Pressfield

what do you think when someone says that they don't have the talent I had an agent my first agent um who used to say Talent is you know and he said uh what counts is somebody that'll stick to it and grind obviously you have to have some talent to do anything like that you and I are not going to be Michael Jordan you know because we I won't be dunking on we don't but within reason right whatever it's the it's the person that that has the ability to stick to it you know not for day one or year one you know but on on and on and keep uh you know I always say that like today people say I'm a talent but for 30 years they told me I was a bum hey and welcome to another episode of The Mark Grose podcast today I'm so honored to welcome Stephen pressfield thanks Mark thanks for having me it's great to be here oh my God it's so good to have you here I think of uh I was telling you before we hit record that year ago when I was a pharmaceutical rep I was thinking okay I'm going to start writing and teaching about relationships who am I to do this all the things and a friend of mine gifted me your book The War of art ah and I will say uh fortunately but unfortunately it was exactly what I needed and I say unfortunately because I had to confront all the ways in which I was not allowing myself to move forward so uh turning pro I mean you have you're a author of many books and I know that uh you've helped so many people move through their resistance to actually bringing what they love to life and one of your quotes that has always struck me and I share with people that are resistant to creating is the more important a call or action is to our Soul's Evolution the resistance we will feel towards pursuing it is greater right yeah is that definitely a principle of resistance of of life and uh which equates immediately to fear right the more important a calling is like you're talking Mark about how you were feeling like oh man I should be doing something different than being a pharmaceutical and I'm sure that what you experienced when you thought about that was fear right oh what am I going to what happens if I can I leave you know this safe place where I am but if I don't leave it you know I'm going to die so just it's just sort of a universal Universal principle I think of resistance that the more fear you feel to some kind of calling or Enterprise or something that you want to do the more important it is that you do it the fear is the resistance to it you know and um in fact I try to use that myself as kind of a guide like if I'm thinking about what next project I want to tackle what book I might want to do I ask if I have like three or four in you know in front of me I go what one is am I most afraid of you know and that's the answer answer I'm looking for whichever one I'm most scared of is the one that I need to do I'm sure for people listening that's got to because that makes you have to confront like the the knowing the knowing it's like the fear is indicative that this thing would you say it's like that it matters to you that it's like a calling yeah exactly you know and resistance this what force that I call resistance with a capital R if for I don't know where it comes from or where it gets its intelligence but it's really smart and it always knows it's infallible so that it when it's trying to stop us yeah it's like the devil right it's trying to stop us from if you have a dream mark and you say well I want to do this I want to have a podcast I want to help people or whatever it is resistance somehow infallibly knows that's that that's your calling and it wants to stop you from doing it so it will throw everything at you but primarily fear you know fear and then of course all of those rationalizations that we come up with you know how am I going to pay the rent you know who am I to do this what do I know about that kind of thing that voice in our head that sounds like it's us it sounds like it's it's you mark say you know rationally assessing the situation but it's not it's the voice of resistance and every believe me I've had so many emails and letters from people we all have the exact same voice it never changes uh and uh it's always it's always full of it's always lying to us and it's always you know trying to stop us from being our best selves and from following whatever our our soul wants us to evolve to it seems like it's colluding with whatever is trying to Res it's almost like especially if the transformation or the thing we're bringing alive is going to bring some change to ourselves our community our work and really I maybe what makes us acceptible to it I curious your thoughts is that that there's such a vulnerability to that exposure that we're just susceptible to resistance cuz like you know who wouldn't be well it is scary right I mean what we're really talking about is changing our lives right yeah um you know somebody that's that thinks they want to be a comedian or they want to leave their job and try something else they want to write a book or whatever it is it's scary it's going into the unknown right you're always going to leave a sort kind of a a safe place go into something that you don't know what's going to happen so it is scary and resistance piggybacks on that and uses that fear to to you know to try to stop us yeah in the book you talk about that you have we have all these fears that show up you know with with um uh procrastination right and and maybe if you could speak a bit more to procrastination procrastination is like probably the primary um manifestation of resistance right right because we can we don't have to say to ourselves I'm never going to follow my dream we say I am going to follow it I'm just going to start tomorrow you know and that's I mean that's uh procrastination is probably the you know the most common and most destructive way to do it but there's you know um susceptibility to distraction going down a rabbit hole of scrolling something or anything on social media you know and today is like I always say if you want to make a billion dollars come up with some invention that will let that will plug into people's resistance and give them a chance to run away from whatever it is they want to do and they did invent it and it's called social media you know and you know we see what happens we all go down a rabbit hole of clickbait and stuff like that rather than do what we what we what we know we ought to do yeah what do you think about the the artist's relationship to their creativity when now there is a corelation to is it going to get liked is it going to go viral is it going to get like is there going to be validation to my art do you know what I mean yeah that's a great it's a great question I just was watching uh Rick ruin podcast you know what Rick is right yeah and one of his principles I which I agree with completely is if you go into the studio as musicians and your goal is to make a hit record it's you you've like shot yourself in the head already right and he so his what he preaches when he's is working with musicians is what do you love what do you want to do regardless of who's going to you know how it's going to affect the audience because I think and I find myself if I try to second guess you know the the audience or the readership and think oh this idea this is a Sure Fire hit I'm almost always wrong you know really and the things that I think only I would be interested in and nobody else is going to care about those for whatever reason are the things that people respond to it's like you know it's one of there's a sort of a uh entrepreneurial principle I know you've heard this a million times like try to try to figure out what the PE what people need what an audience wants what they need do they need a new garage door opener they need whatever right and then Supply that and that's supposedly a trick but I and maybe and I'm sure that works to some people but I don't think it works if you're at all in the creative arts because if you think about uh Steve Jobs coming up with the idea for the iPhone right there was nobody out there saying we need a phone that that does all these right right he had to kind of lead them right he had to say oh I this is a thing I love it and I'm betting that other people are going to love it when they see it and anyway that's it seems like that's really the only satisfying way to kind of live your life if you're creative you know if you're trying to second guess the audience you're always doing what you think somebody else is going to like instead of what you really care about and what your you know what your passion your authenticity is calling you to do yeah okay you had this am I had to write it down because you had a quote that speaks to that uh where you talk about a hack and you had said that you learned this from Robert mcke yeah that it's a it's a writer who second guesses his audience when they sit down he doesn't ask himself what's in his own heart he ask what the market is looking for the hack condescends to his audience he thinks Superior to them the truth is he's scared to death of them or more accurately scared of being authentic in front of them scared of writing what he really feels or believes what he himself thinks is interesting he's afraid it won't sell you know like I the the the kind of like Zinger at the end is that uh you know he doesn't ask himself what do I want to write what do I think it's important instead he asked what can I make a deal for and that Zinger is the hack is like a politician who insults the polls before he takes a position he's a demog he panders and I was like like that is cuz you know the birth of my work was relational and I've just found that I'm super impassioned by looking at how those relational Dynamics expand more culturally ideologically right CU they're so and especially in today's age there's so much um ideological rigidity and a lack of conversation these really these and I felt so called to just like I've got to talk about all this but I could see myself this is why I said your work is both a blessing and somewhat of a bit of a mirror uhuh which I saw myself in that I'm like oh wow I've like I had sold myself out in a way like sold out my art and when I first started writing and teaching and I'm sure for people listening they can relate to this too as entrepreneurs or creatives it's like you're finally giv giving birth to what your voice is it's finally coming through you you you've put the pen to paper you've published the thing you've recorded the first video whatever and then you start adjusting and so it's like you then step back into the lack of authentic self-expression yeah you know what I mean I mean it's a constant battle to not do that right yeah you know it's like gravity is pulling us down you know and I do want to what that definition of a hack I got to give credit to Robert mcke that the great screenwriting you know story uh teacher you know was has been a huge influence on me that really was you know I got that from him and he's absolutely right but it is a battle constantly to not backslide into you know and particularly if you have an agent or if there's anybody that's uh like making money off you they want you to do that that bad thing oh you had a hit doing this let's have an let's do it again you know like we got weedies we invented this cereal let's put another box of Wheaties out you know and sometimes you do that cuz you want to explore you know something a little deeper but I think you have to constantly guard against that and because there there's always going to be another project that's scary for you and that's the one you got to find man that's such good direction I'm curious for your creative when you created the war of art what was the inspiration for that uh well basically I'm I'm a fiction writer you know nobody people have read the war of art they don't know anything about that but uh which is a pain to me but um but uh the way the way the war of art came about is uh you know when you are a working writer your friends will come to you and they'll say I've got a book in me you know well you you know what do I do I don't know how to do it so I would uh sit up with friends like till 2: in the morning and basically warn them against this thing that I call resistance with the capital r i tell them you know it's going to be a lot harder than you think and you're going to want to procrastinate and go down a rabbit hole you're going to get superficial you're going to be Prof blah blah blah and uh of course nobody ever listened to me you know nobody ever did nobody ever wrote the book nobody ever did whatever so finally I just said let me just put this down on paper you know I'll put it down on like almost like a mimig graph sheet and when somebody comes to me I'll just say here read this you I don't have to sit up with you and uh so that was how the war of art came really fast it was like two months that you wrote it in yeah I mean it's obviously short with short chapters but it was just ready to come cuz it was been in my head for so long yeah and that idea of resistance like was it your own meeting of it that you CU I know you said you get so many emails you get so many letters you get so many people are reaching out being like this voice that I have and you're saying that voice everybody has and it sounds the same and you think it's you but it's not you it's this Force yeah how did you come up with the idea of capital r resistance uh you know I'm not be sure where it ever came from but you know when you know when you're a writer you're always facing the blank page right it's always that moment and you can feel I feel a kind of a negative Force radiating off that page at me you know trying to push me away from it you know and and for a long time I thought I'm I'm the only one that feels this I guess I must you know must be easy for Hemingway or JD sound they just sit down and do it and I'm just there's something wrong with me you know that I that this is so hard for me and I really when I wrote the world I really thought it was only for writers you know I sort of people would say to you know my editor would say to me you know this is for other people so throwing in a little bit of stuff in there about but uh I was amazed at how broad the spe that everybody feels as comedians even for photographers I thought how why would a photographer feel resistance but everybody does dancers everyone in a creative field like anyone that's trying to move from a lower level to a higher level morally ethically um cre creatively resistance always wants to keep us down you know let me tell you about the N Tucket towels from cozy Earth whether you're looking for a gift for a loved one or to spruce up your home these towels are a winner and we all know when you get touched by a beautiful towel you're like where did you get that and how do I get 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the code Groves for 40% off what do you think for someone who's listening and they're facing resistance what do you recommend for confronting it I mean a lot of it is simply balls you know and willpower I mean it's just cuz it it's scary it's scary and it's hard and how do you how do you do anything like that you know how do you if you if you're overweight and you want to start exercising or you want to run a marathon how do you do it right you just simply have to sort of whatever works for you put yourself on a program you know and the hardest thing I think is it's not so hard to do it day one but it's hard to do it day two day three day four you know day 61 day 210 you know we were talking earlier about uh The Daily Press field this book of mine this new book that and one of the it's a daily book like a 365 daily book to sort of keep you going through the through the various um manifestations of of resistance and self- sabotage which is what this is that are going to happen you know so that's uh you know like there are predictable points and I'm sure you know this in Your Own Thing Mark predictable point point where resistance will try to will try to sabotage you at the very beginning of a project it'll try it'll try to keep you from taking step one right then you get into it a little bit and you get some momentum going whatever it is a book you're writing a movie a podcast you're going to put together and you kind of get some rolling and you're don't good and then this point like maybe what I would call the end of act one where you suddenly go holy what have I done you know I've left behind you know it's sort of like the moment when the Israelites left slavery in Egypt and they kind of got out they saw the desert you know they said oh man let's go back let's go back where we got and and then there are other predictable points along the way so that's one of the things that this book is trying to address to sort of when you hit that point to know that everybody else hits that point too and you just got to gear up it's willpower it's desire it's you know it's mental toughness to get through this thing there's no hack there's no there's no easy way that I found you know yeah isn't that interesting we all want like the shortcut is there is there a shortcut that you can give me and you know there's that saying that the juice or the juice is in the journey like it's not about the outcome it's about who you become along the way and I totally age right and I I when I first got this so I got it a couple days ago and then I started it in the mornings and this mornings uh was get up do not lie there thinking nothing ever came from that get up begin your day a quote that you have from Yogananda and uh said Yogananda says thinking I know exactly what he means he means resistance and I was thinking about that because when I woke up before I read this I was I was looking at my phone thinking and then I opened this and I was just like oh this is good yeah so you structured it so that if you have a project a creative Endeavor just want to change become something do something you you're like I know the process like do this daily and amazing it would be amazing to see what people can create just by committing to this every day because each day is not like 12 Pages it's a Zinger yeah it's just it's just a one a one-page thing you know yeah which um actually this I got Ryan holiday you know who he is right he actually gave me the idea for this for this book because of his book The Daily stoic you know and one of the things he told me this is sort of like a a marketing thing that I would never have thought of on my own when he showed it to me I said oh that makes a lot of sense he said make sure that each chapter is only one page because when people read this if they like something they'll take a photo of it you know with their iPhone and they'll post it on Instagram or whatever it is and that's what you want you don't want a chapter that goes two or three pages long besides 365 days becomes a big big book yeah it did look at this thing yeah it's beautiful and I know you guys has uh self-published this your wife and your yeah yeah and you can get the book on Amazon and if you want to get like the souped up sign copy you can get it from your website but also and then you have the gift box which has the journal and also illustrations from Victor uas yeah which is great who is the husband of our mutual friend Terry Cole yeah so this is awesome okay so what made you write this as like because you've written um turning pro and you've written put your ass where your heart wants to be all these cre I love the titles of all these uh what made you write this one I just thought you know when Ryan holiday said you know a daily thing is a really cool thing I thought that's that is a great medium it's sort of like you know I tell we were talking before when people come to me and say I want to write a book and I don't know how to do it how do I do it and it's you know it's a tough thing to answer how do you do it you know or any long-term project so I thought a 365 kind of devotional is the perfect medium to do this cuz you can start on day one with the you know just like you're waking up this morning like the first morning you wake up what do you do right right and then the first week what is the first week like and then like I was talking about predictable resistance points like one great one is what they call act two Horrors right when you're in the middle of something it's sort of like if you compared it to a let's say a football season right at the start of the Season you're all jacked up because it's starting right and at the end you got the playoffs but in the middle it becomes this terrible grind right where you just got to get through you know game 11 12 13 14 and it's the same thing writing a book so I I I sort of organized this book The Daily Press field when you get to the middle of it it talks exactly about that you know and what Horrors you're going to run into and what you can what you can do to get yourself through them for someone who is encountering r resistance one thing that I read in uh the war of art was about how you tend to be drawn or choose Partners who are overcoming or have overcome resistance ah yes I wanted to hear a little more about that cuz I'm sure for relationship yeah yeah I'm just thinking I certainly noticed this in in my own life that like when I was in the throws of losing to resist being defeated by resistance I would be drawn out I would like fall in love with with somebody or become really drawn to somebody that really had their together you know and and then later on when I sort of started to get it together I found that people would be attracted to me to sort of you know and I could sort of see that they really wanted there was a work that they wanted to do maybe they're a musician or whatever it was and they couldn't quite do it they were kind of mired in their own resistance and so that being with me would sort of inspire them a little bit you know but I'm not sure that's a great thing for a relationship CU is that I mean I suppose it can be but uh it's it's a little bit of you know you certainly need to be aware of that of that Dynamic you know um another thing that you sort of see sometimes I'm sure that you've been into this you know in in your relationship stuff Mark is if uh if there's something that we really want to do and we're afraid to do it our resistance is stop stopping us we might take a job as somebody's assistant who who is who is doing that kind of thing you know and I've seen it so many times where you can tell that the assistant is really a creative person and really has got a lot of a lot of ideas and really wants to do it you know in fact in my own life like I for I don't know five or six years I was part of a writing team a screenwriting team where I was the junior member of the thing and and my partner was the guy with the name who' had hits and I was like the slave that that did the work and I was absolutely in that role you know where I he my partner was kind of a mentor to me but at the same time I was sort of chafing you know I was like well I got good ideas too you know yeah um so anyway that is a common Dynamic of somebody stuck in their own resistance being drawn to somebody that's gotten past it and is really working that makes sense I mean I can see how you want to like almost absorb what they do or witness how they overcome resistance but at some point you're right you have to be the one who takes the leap off the cliff you have to and I see so much correlation between the courage to open up to someone to be vulnerable to set a boundary to like all these new versions of us that require us walking off a cliff and of course I see the same capital r resistance is in your head saying like they might not love me they won't choose me anymore and I think of that relationally how let's say our greatest fears were going to be rejected right that in the birth of me not creating the work or the self-expression I actually live in the very rejection that I'm trying to avoid and then I think well if if that's the way I'm living my body can't feel very good you know like everything sort of adds on to that like how we feel physiologically right and then our habits start to reflect the mopy mope kind of well no one's going to listen and you know and and it's interesting how something that makes you confront death will often make you give birth to something you know what I mean yeah it's a sort of a hitting the bottom moment right yeah like holy it could all be over tomorrow you know what do I what's really important right yeah I mean a lot of times when we ask ourselves how do people change right how how do you change how do I change a lot of times it's it's some horrible moment you know that where we hit some kind of wall you know somebody leaves us you know or we have a terrible accident or we get a diagnosis or something like that yeah yeah it's too bad we can't just do that on a regular day you know yeah you know I remember talking to this um this guy named koshen Paley Ellison and he's a marriage and family therapist and also is an monk I like that's a pretty cool com things family systems and the universe great and he was saying I was asking him like what's the difference between someone who has a diagnosis and someone who and and then they start everything and then someone who doesn't and he was like simply the acknowledgement of death the diagnosis is just the pathway to the acknowledgement I was like that's so obvious but so hard to do what are you going to do like sit down and face you know you should imagine your own death imagine it's all over and then say what what what's really important to me I had a little event I know that said aopo of nothing but um it's kind of a long story can you bear with a little story here Mark I love a good story let's go I uh a friend of mine and a real mentor to me a guy was like maybe 15 years older than me named normall died a little while ago and uh I went to his uh memorial service back on the east coast and you know the way people will get up and they'll tell stories about you know and uh so these were here here were two stories that that people told the first one was Norm's son got up and told this story and he said you know you're trying to encapsulate a person's life right what you know that he made money and succeed blah blah didn't tell those stories at all he said that at one point Norm had a cousin and they kind of grew up together and the cousin borrowed 15,000 bucks from him and never paid him back and it was like a real sore point in the family you know for years you know cuz the guy cuz they would see each other at very sented and then finally there was like one family event when everybody was there like Christmas or something like that and it was a uh real strain in the air between were they going to and at one point Norm my friend just walked across the floor to his cousin and everybody was sort of watching this and he just put his arms around him and hugged him you know wow and so that was the the uh uh the the moment of Norm's life that was encapsuled I'll tell you there's another one but you get the point from that yeah but what was what I thought I thought about that later and I thought it was sort of like seeing your own death in a way it's like I'm sure Norm had a moment where he thought what's important yeah in this life I could bear a grudge against my cousin forever you know but I love the guy you know he's My Flesh and Blood we grew up we played football together what do I care about 15 grand you know and so he made that great gesture you know and that you could see that in summing up his life no's life that was what his son picked out of all the things he could have picked and I think it's really true so God bless him you know Norm wherever you are that you know that was a great thing to do if we could only all do that what is really important and and in terms of like living your dream that's important yeah you know um if we thought to ourselves I'm going to die and I'm never going to do do it you know maybe that's motivation to get us you know off our asses and and do what it is cuz you know you can die tomorrow yeah I think a lot about that of like we don't have time you know that's the it's such a fallacy or fallacy is that the right word it's just like it's this idea that our calendar goes longer than someone else's like I can tough it out as you said the the I will do it but I just won't do it today yeah and that just becomes every day and it's amazing once the once you start getting into like the daily practices that you're talking about in your book that the momentum is bananas like all of a sudden you look back a week or a month cuz now you know I have to do this because I saw your book this morning and it was speaking to me is I have to read your book before I do anything else because that's dedication to the craft you know I think relationally one thing that really changed just up leveled relationship and commitment and my relationship to my wife and having a son certainly did that but was actually just this recognition that our time together is sacred our relationship is sacred and I think of the gift of what is trying to move through me as being sacred so who am I to not treat what is trying to call it God Call It Whatever right yeah yeah yeah because I think like what to be trusted with something do you know what I mean yeah particularly a young life that you're bringing into the world you know yeah and then like to be trusted with that to be trusted with my wife's love to be trusted with words that are trying to be spoken or written through me I now I sort of look like it's not an act of reverence or love to to not do you know what I mean yeah it's an insult yes you know to the practice to whatever it is that you're doing and the other thing is the when we don't do what we're what we're supposed to do we get sick you know it's not it's not a what's it a no fa situation whatever that phrase is you know I mean there's that energy that's inside you that wants to be a podcast or wants to be a book or wants to be something in a relationship if it if we don't act on it and we don't bring it forth it doesn't just go away you know it goes into it goes into other channels you know and it goes into our bodies you know and it goes into things like uh um addiction or um depression or you know all of the the vices that we suffer you know in modern society um alienation isolation abuse of others that kind of thing it doesn't it doesn't go away it goes into something malignant so we should do it whatever it is that we're supposed to do yeah cuz it sounds like what you're saying which I I agree with is like you think it's an option yeah but it's not yeah which I think that level of responsibility to it that like there's actually a cost yes and you're not going to like the cost because no one likes the cost you know yeah it's like the thing of when the pain of not doing it gets greater than the pain of doing because there is a pain it is it is painful it it's scary it's hard and the other thing that we don't talk about a lot is it's tedious a lot of the stuff you know like if you want to learn the piano be a concert pianist you got to sit at the keyboard and do God knows what you know scales and exercises for you know 10,000 hours or whatever it is any anything is like that right it's tedious and so once you get into it you go oh why did I do this you know but at the end of the day you have that good feeling you know I did I did what I was supposed to do today you know yeah um but it's hard it's scary and it's tedious what do you think when someone says that it's they don't have the talent ah I well I had an agent my first agent um who used to say Talent is you know and he said uh that uh because he' represented tons of writers and he said that you know what counts is somebody that'll stick to it and grind you know obviously you have to have some talent to do anything like that you and I are not going to be Michael Jordan you know because we just don't be dunking on we have but within reason right whatever it's the it's the person that that has the ability to stick to it you know not for day one or year one you know but on on and on and keep uh you know I always say that like today people say I'm a talent but for 30 years they told me I was a bum and I was a bum because I hadn't learned you know but if you can't if you can keep grinding and keep believing in yourself and keep doing it that's another you know skill they don't teach you you know that you know you don't get a medal for that or anything the ability to kind of keep going when you're not getting any satisfaction or feedback but if you can keep doing that you will get better you will you know suddenly the daily practice you know and it it isn't even just skill it's something more mystical where yeah at some point you know for 15 years you couldn't do it and then Tuesday comes along and now you can do it some yeah you know whatever it might be uh uh but that's it's true that whole thing of like hitting a rock you hit the rock a thousand times and finally the 10,000th time the rock splits you know um so it's beyond just getting better incrementally there is a kind of a mystical thing to it that if if you just keep grinding at it long enough you know a tumbler clicks over and all of a sudden the lock opens you know yeah I remember I had a recently I remember just someone made a comment on a social media post I did where they had said you know Mark got lucky you know essentially how I managed some level of of success and I was like man you have no clue like you didn't see the daily grinding the post twice a day writing every day recording like the the the published things that crash the published things that get CR you know like it was good because it was fuel for me in a way like we don't see we see the finished product yeah exactly know but like I think of your your books that you write they're written because you've been through these things so you're able to alchemize this knowledge and put it on a piece of paper so that in hopes that I don't have to go through what you went through that I get to find let's call it a shortcut because it I'm taking long cuts you know like people who are losing to resistance can't actually find a way to overcome resistance and it's because you've done that that you could tell people how to do that if you hadn't if you hadn't as you said been a bum for a few years you wouldn't know how to speak to that person yeah you know what I mean yeah and that guy who said that you got lucky that's his own resistance talking he wishes he was you he wishes he had done you know for whatever his dream was yeah and he hasn't so he's envious of you so he takes a pot shot at you you know so that is another sort of factor of when you don't do it you fall pray of these vices like envy and things like that you know I feel sorry for that guy I hope he turns it around um but that's what that is you know that's his own that's his own resistance to because he sees you doing it and it's a reproach to him like if Mark can do it why can't I do it you know yeah why am I not yeah why am I not doing it [Music] yeah I love the month of May as it invites the celebration of the women and mothers in my life it's become even more special over the last couple of years getting to celebrate Kylie in her journey into motherhood both carrying Jasper in her womb and now in her arms this month in honor of the mothers and women in our lives I wanted to share a very special blend our friends at organifi brewed up specifically for Women's Health organifi Harmony is crafted to help balance and support hormones so that you can 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restful sleep what mother couldn't use a little bit of additional rest use the code create the love for 20% off Harmony and all of organifi other amazing products at organifi.com Crea have you always had a relationship to cuz in your books you do talk about this sort of Mystical Force like this like when you step into this you're kind of getting right with God getting aligned with message getting aligned with Universe whatever the word is for people have you always had a relationship to what is Mystical or was it actually through the discovery of through your own work uh it's it's a little bit of a both I think Mark you know it's like when you're you're when you're a writer or you're in any form of the Arts and you're beating your head against the wall every day right you have to ask yourself it's inevitable you say well where do ideas come from I'm struggling to find them you know I can't find them you know and then suddenly there's one and you realize it's not coming from you right there's some it's coming from someplace else and the way that you know that you will get an idea in the shower when you're on driving on the freeway you know where it's a moment when your ego kind of lets down you know and things come through you open like that illustration on the top of uh well anyway it's uh on the top Bo if you can see it on the top of the box I don't know if you if you can see it on the camera but it's called it's Vic did this it's called The Cosmic radio station and it's just a like a Cadillac in my mind driving AC convertible driving across West Texas at night with this huge antenna you know and trying to tune in to the cosmic radio station and I think that's great when you ask yourself where do ideas come from they obviously come from someplace else and so you can't help but be humbled by that and you know I'm a big believer in the in the Greek goddess concept of the muses yes you know the the the goddesses that give that Inspire artists right and uh but that's just the way my mind works I'm you know I like to put a human face on something but so anyway that I I yeah at some point I it really became clear to me that uh we're operating we writers and artists are operating on the material plane but there's a plane above us and the more we can open the pipeline to that plane the better off we're going to be how long did it take for you to go from like living the life you were living to actually answering that like that call to to really I'm not sure I understand you're saying like when you had different jobs that weren't writing H like were you always a writer your whole life or no right no so I'm curious like what made you transition like when did you finally take the leap uh I mean I was trying to write forever yeah and uh getting nowhere at all having things not published you know going they were just terrible and uh finally uh I started uh like when I started working with a partner in the movie business yeah that was the first time that I ever was actually able to pay the rent through my partner you know through being his apprentice and then you know we kind of had a divorce which always has to happen and uh and uh but then so i' I'd been trying now probably for like 30 years and still hadn't really ever written in my own real where I felt it was really coming from my heart and then just one day actually was with the book of The Legend of bag of an yeah where something came out out of me and this is why I believe in this higher Dimension that was coming from a different place in a better place that was really and it wasn't necessarily my voice in the sense that uh you know was Steve pressfield or anything it was coming from somewhere else you know I was like being Channel channeling something but that was when for me that that Tumblr turned and the lock opened you know but it took like 30 years of hammering on the stone before it finally cracked and I know you share a story where a a a novel you wrote I can't remember which novel maybe it was bans that when you submitted it they were like nah this is not going to but it ended up being your bestselling I don't know if it was exact it was probably me that thought nobody's going to be interested in this it was like something about how a certain type of Novel doesn't generally succeed in the writing in the writing world I'm not sure which uh I'm trying to remember which seems like the ones for me that have succeeded that's what they've been they're the ones that people would say oh this doesn't this never works nobody's ever going to buy this you know and then it does and then it crushes well you know even a modest success is a good thing you know yeah and then the things that you thought were going to be great they to lay an egg completely yeah I've always thought that's kind of funny it's like I remember I once launched this program that I thought this is it like this is everything everyone wants and then I launched it to like 600,000 people and it was like $47 and I think six people bought it and I was like that is not what people want you know and really going into was I authentic in the creation of this what is missing not I'm a failure which my younger version of me would have probably come up with but actually like there's an opportunity here to get more clear you uh talk about how personal grow let me interrupt you for a second tell me about that a little bit like what what lesson did you take from that what what was your mistake or the mistake for me well the opportunity for me in that was that the the lack of desire for people to participate in it yeah was evidence not that it's the the concept is a failure but that I didn't present it properly like there was an opportunity for me to learn that some people want something different and I want to create something different so how do I because it was an authentic desire it was like this combination of uh personal growth which I want to ask you about that's why it's perfect timing it's like it was this idea of really understanding yourself and changing fundamental core beliefs in one month but combining it with Fitness and Nutrition at the same time because my thought has always been if you don't get immediate feedback generally from personal change like if you if you lay a boundary it's usually pretty scary and you're not like I love myself now this is great you're like will any you know will anyone love me will this work will my relationships be okay but when you go for a walk you do feel great uhhuh you know it might be hard but like you're still your body is immediately rewarded with uh you know different neuro hormones chemicals and so uh I really I learned that I just didn't present it properly and and how do I do that does that make sense yeah what do you think it's you know I I don't know what what I've learned from those moments but it's certainly so common I'm sure if we had 20 entrepreneurs writers artists everybody would have stories about you know I knew I had this was a sure fire hit that just completely bombed it's just uh like William Goldman you know William Goldman the screenwriter wrote a he wrote Butch Cassidy in the kid All the President's Men and uh he wrote a book called adventures in the screen trade and the sort of the takeaway from that book was his thing nobody knows anything he talks about how in the movie business people will have like whatever whoever originally produced ET they had the film that Spielberg had shot they didn't have the script they had the film that they could look at and they thought it was a loser and it they sold it to another studio and the other Studio Universal took it and made it this giant hit so you know people turn down the Beatles right so what is it yeah you know like Michael Jordan doesn't make his high school yeah right that's another thing yeah yeah and you think about uh how those failures quote unquote yeah fueled like like really taking like did you take the practice of you know writing something that doesn't get published and that actually be like okay I got to write more that's resistance like is that how you would label it I I would say I had for me I had to write more just because I felt like uh uh I can't accept this yeah you know that I'm really this bad you know I've got to get better you know I can't I can't accept it I'm sure that's how anybody that succeeds in anything things you know you have a level of aspiration and you say I won't accept being below this you know I am below it but I can't accept that you know I've got to I got to keep doing it well where that comes from I have no idea you know your parents or something yeah who knows but tapping into it is important and I I think when I look at today you know let's say for example the first post I ever wrote on Instagram the first thing I ever published on Facebook or the first blog I ever wrote or the first video I ever recorded I look at them and they're not great you know and but when I wrote every day for eight years eventually you start to turn the corner and I even look at writing from two three years ago and I'm like oh man I need to edit some of this you know and it's such an Evidence of our own Evolution evidence of what 1% change every day or like practices like the Daily Press field that if you do these things you're going to look back and maybe you'll be proud that you started maybe not like I looked some of the First videos you do get better that that's true yeah yeah the you talk about how re resist I think this is so good for the audience for you guys to hear CU I heard it and I was like um you talk about how resistance loves healing and personal growth I'm like I love personal growth uh that that it like wants to be working on is that sort of the idea or the premise I I don't know I just think that sometimes and I'm sort of guilty of this in in in my quote unquote teaching where I'm not sure how if workshops and things like that really work you know when you try IDE um and and and the idea of sort of healing that's another thing is uh that uh it's another form of resistance to me it's like the concept is let me heal first then I'll get down and I'll do my work and of course there's no there's no way to do that you know you got to it's the work that's going to heal you you know so you have to somehow you know not procrastinate not around sit down and start to do it you know what is healing anyway you know it's it's basically I think when people feel that horrible feeling of depression despair I'm going nowhere it's really because they're not doing their work right you know there's nothing wrong with them they don't need to heal from that or the only way to heal from it is to sit down and do whatever you were meant to do you know the hard part I feel like so much of our anxieties depressions I mean you said earlier that and I I agree with this it's almost like social media is the greatest thing that resistance ever came up with yeah true like oh we were around with you with your like inside voice you know their sabot inner dialogue we we had you we're in your hands but now we like actually have a way for you to use all your time and fall prey to social scientists who their whole job they're hired by resistance to actually make it so you never get anything done do you know what I mean h yes I mean people anybody that's watching this now turn it off and start doing you know go to the tyrer or the dance studio fin this and then but yeah I mean what you're saying about healing I think is really important because I find that people will get addicted to the idea of personal growth because if you're reading books and taking classes and all those things sure there's like a baseline of knowledge that you can build how to write how to film how to how to have a boundary what does it sound like the technical parts of these things um and I get to tell you I'm taking a course I don't actually have to yet be transformed yeah do you know what I mean yeah yeah yeah exactly and when I look at that I think okay well it's easy to get addicted to that because it will satisfy the audience around you like but look what I'm doing but you're not different like even actually in the act of pursuing personal growth or if it's from a place that I'm broken then it just reinforces the idea that you're broken yes and it's you know you know who Robert Green is yeah from had him on once's and he ah yeah he's great what I love about his philosophy is it involves work doing a certain work you know when you're if you're going to in personal growth right you know uh you're taking a cold Plunge in the morning and you walking your bare feet on the stones and you do all that that you're that they say is supposed to make you feel good um but when you're done with that I mean I haven't done that so I don't know maybe you feel good for a few minutes but Robert Green would say what what work should you be doing you know is there is there a book is there a movie is there something that you should be producing sit down and do that work and then you'll feel you'll feel great you know and you'll also have you'll have something you know you're actually enacting what you know the muses or God wanted you to do instead of sort of preparing to do that you know oh that's interesting like the morning practices are preparing you for the thing but just do the thing or do the practice and then do the thing you know don't just do the practice hoping it's going to get you to you know some state of uh equinity or whatever it is yeah again that's that idea when I get to the state then all when I get to the healing then all yeah is a resistance is resistance is very duplicitous and diabolical CU you really think oh I'm really working hard you know I'm getting up at 5: in the morning I'm going out I'm taking a walk I'm running I'm channeling I'm meditating I'm writing in my journal I'm taking a cold plunge you know when really maybe you should be founding some school or some business or starting something you know writing a book or something like that I think about how applicable this is for so many people and I love me a good cold plune um but I agree with you it's like finish the thing and then like if you're going to have practices and rituals to prepare you for something do the something yeah yeah I mean I have another Mantra that I believe in and I've seen this elsewhere and it's basically start before you're ready don't prepare for anything just start it you know and I'll tell you one little story here I I I wrote a book a few years ago that was about a non-fiction book about The Six Day War the Arab Israeli War of 1967 and I went over to Israel and I spent you know weeks and weeks interviewing I had and I came back with tapes up the ying-yang right so I thought okay this is a serious project I really got to do this in a serious way so let me I'm going to transcribe you know and so I started transcribing you know like hours and hours of interviews you know and like three months went by I real I was getting nowhere I finally just said to myself just write the thing you know and immediately the clouds went away and I just just sat down and wrote it you know so I I I thought with the best of intentions let me really prepare and do this seriously prepare the ground you know you know sometimes you got to just you jump in and do it yeah I'm so for people who are listening watching um who is the Daily Press field for it's for anybody who is undertaking any kind of long form project particularly Alone by which I mean not in some structured environment you know where you have mentors or teachers or whatever it is like so writing a book is the classic thing but making a movie or starting a podcast or whatever is because when you're alone you're or maybe you have one or two friends that might you know help you a little bit you really are prey to your own resistance to your own self- sabotage and you'll come up with a million excuses why you can't do it and you'll have crises right where you just can't overcome H I'm I'm at page 60 in my novel and it's dog you know what do I do you know so this is sort of a a 365 day thing that can help walk a person through where when you're panicking hopefully you know on day 61 you know there'll be something that that can address that and you'll see and hopefully what it'll say is you know you're not alone the stuff you're going through is uh everybody goes through it and take a deep breath or whatever you know or here's a thing you should do a specific thing you should do at this point so it's it it's somebody trying to do something long form over a year two years and you're alone to do it that's that's who this is for awesome and you were saying that for people to grab it to go to your website right yeah the book is uh I'm gonna give a pitch here yeah yeah you can you can get it three ways you can get it from Amazon and they print it and it's not printed as well as the ones you get here okay let me just qualify that this is very sexy this feels good it's got get a real quality thing he didn't pay me to say this but this is like crisp I can feel it so you can get it from Amazon and one of those or or you can even order it in a bookstore and it will be unsigned or you can go to my website which is just my name stepen pressfield and you can get it two ways one is just in a really nice box signed and the other is this gift thing that has a companion journal and illustrations and cards and a bunch of lot of lot of goodies in there and what's great about this is it makes a great gift for somebody Beau if you if somebody in your life is struggling with their own resistance you know they want to make a movie or start a podcast or whatever and they can't get off the ground this is a great thing to give them because it's a real a lot of ammo there and it shows love you know to give it yeah I believe in you is in the gift you know which is so beautiful especially from the people around us where I think often when we're bringing a create creative Endeavor to life like something that is scary I think a lot of the times it's the people who are closest to us that it means a lot when somebody will do just you know here here's something you know yeah I feel like it's like I see you I believe in you that's beautiful but we'll make sure we link it all out and Stephen I could talk to you all day I'm so grateful that you took the time made the time like I've let's do this again sometime mark this is great thanks Terry thank you for putting us together Terry Cole who's been on the podcast three times so people know her I yeah I just want to acknowledge you because your book impacted me when I began this and when I Revisited it to prepare for this conversation and I read turning pro again too I was again just so grateful because there was new it's like a book you can read constant L to remind you of where we stop stepping fully into ourselves and actually accepting these gifts and and uh honoring the Muse so thank you for what you do and thank you Mark thanks for having me and the book is short yeah the war of art is nice and short turning pro is short too yeah yeah uh so everyone the links are in the show notes thanks again thanks can we reach AC thanks a lot thanks [Music] [Music]

Channel: Mark Groves

Views: 978

Keywords: Authenticity, Belonging, Boundaries, Self-Worth, Self-Love, Transformation, Conflict, Career, Mental Health, Purpose, Resistance, Creativity, Perseverance, Self-Doubt, Commitment, Resilience, Creative Expression, Daily Practice, Dedication, Personal Growth, Inspiration, Meaningful Work, Obstacles, Opportunities, Creative Journey, Steven Pressfield, Mark Groves, Author, The War of Art, Turning Pro, The Daily Pressfield, Writer, Creative, Do The Work

Id: Ln07VOMHEJ0

Length: 60min 39sec (3639 seconds)

Published: Mon May 06 2024