My name is Bethan. My name is Luis Jon Black. That's Luquese. Last name Black, BL Ac K. Good morning, Mr Black. Good. I wanna speak with you about um where you're from and at some point, uh did you move away from Charlotte? Yes, I did to better my life. And where did you go? I went to Alaska, Alaska. Yes, ma'am. And then after Alaska, where did you move to or had a family alteration or 10 by home? And then home is where she? Ok. And so, uh you were born in Charlotte? How long before you left to go to Alaska? Were you living in Charlotte? Um I'm pretty sure all my heart. Ok, until you move to Alaska. All right, I want to speak with you about um Theresa Black. How do you know Theresa Black? Uh I met this young lady when we was younger um 92 and um who was she to you back in 1992? Just a friend. All right. And uh did you all date in 1992 at some point? Uh Did you all begin to date? What year did you begin to date? Teresa? Um it was in 04, 2004. Ok. And did you all, uh, take your relationship to another level? Yes, ma'am. We did. Can you tell the jury about that? Uh, we met in 2004. We back, we back in 2004 had jobs. Both changing our lives. Around 2005. We got married and had a beautiful daughter. And what's your daughter's name? And when you all get married, what state were you all living in at the time? And when you got married? And before you had your daughter, were you aware if Teresa had any other Children? I was aware that she had a child. But when did, when did you become aware that she had that child? Did you become aware of the time you all first began to date or after you all were married at the WN? So during your dating phase, did Teresa ever tell you that she had a child? Yeah, like when we first started back talking, she admitted that she did have a child. Ok. And did she tell you that child's name? And what was that child's name? That's what we call L William, right? And you said that's who, who we call, that's who called. You said that's who we, what we call him. Who is we my family, her? I mean, that's what we represented, the man we, that's how we knew. Ok. And um, and this was around 2004. Ok. Where did you meet Teresa Double Oaks. Is that a neighborhood in Charlotte? Old neighborhood in Charlotte off? Thanks for having me. So you, you met her from being in the neighborhood? All right. She also told you that his name. Well, you all refer to him as little will. Did she tell you what his age was back in 2004? I think she did. I just can't remember. Was it in the teenage, um, age range or the early toddler age range? What was he was a teen, teen range? And um, did you ever meet him in person? Did Teresa ever tell you where little William was staying? Where was he staying? He was supposed to be in Atlanta with uh his family members. And I believe that was either her family members or Will's family members, his dad? All right. Do you recall which family member he was with? Was it uh uncle auntie, grandmother, grandfather at that time? It had to be like older people like his grandparents or something like that. So you and Teresa get married? Uh how long before or how long after you get married? Did you all move to Alaska? Um get married in 2005? Let her daughter. Did I sit down March of what year, March of 2005 is when we went to Alaska? And do you recall what, what month you got married February? So, a month later you all moved to Alaska and at that time was your daughter born or um, was she was born? She was born January 27th of 2005. Before you all moved to North. I mean, to Alaska, we were you and Teresa living together with your daughter? And uh was that a house in a neighborhood or in another metropolitan neighborhood within Charlotte? We stay in me? And do you recall that uh the area that you all were living in? Was that close to the neighborhood where you met Teresa or some distance? Mm Both of them were some distance. Yeah. At some point. Oh, well, now let me back up. How was the relationship with you and Teresa and your child when you all were living in Charlotte charge objection to relevancy in curing evidence. What's the relevance? Well, your honor, may we actually approach or speak about this outside the presence of the jury? All right. Let me, I'm sorry, guys, I gotta send you back to the jury room for a minute. Um While we handle this matter, my apologies, it, it won't be long. All right. So now that I'm thinking about it, this was in 2005 that she's married to him. I said, what is the relevance of her? What was the question? Parenting? No, I asked, what was there? What was Teresa's demeanor with him, her and your child? OK. And your honor. The question of what I'm, let's get a proffer from the witness about what he's gonna say and then maybe I can make a determination if it's relevant. Yes. Um, back and when you and Teresa first had your daughter, what was their relationship like when the daughter was first born? It's wonderful. You want me to, I'm sorry, judge, I didn't know if you wanted me to contain. No. And, um, and at some point you all left and moved to Alaska. Yes, ma'am. And at some point did the dynamics of you all's relationship change and as a result of the changing of the dynamics of your relationship change, did you move from Alaska? And did you move back to, what did you move back to back to Charlotte? And um, so that's the basis of those state genres? All right. So what's the re how is this more likely to help the jury decide whether or not the defendant is guilty or not guilty of murder? Well, your honor, uh, murder is not the only charge in the indictment. It also goes to there's an additional charge of concealing the death of another person. He just want to get into more detail about um, a conversation that he had with William on the phone. All of this information goes to her demeanor to show how she is concealing the death of William. She is um acting like he is still alive, acting like um his wife is still present everything is happy for the purpose of the continued concealment of the death. Yes, you remember. OK. All right. That wasn't articulated earlier. So thank you. OK. Just, just uh as to his and I think you're, you're picking up on this as to his relationship with Teresa and, and how she was as a parent. Uh We have a continuing objection to that relevance as to this case. Well, your honor, I am going to go into additional uh details with Mr Black in reference to um his relationship with his daughter. Um This is also gonna be information that's gonna also come out with Mr Black. Uh I suspect that I've talked to Mr Black several times and Mr Hamilton that I suspect they're gonna say something to the effect that when MS Black gets upset with them as an individual, she doesn't allow them to see the child. Ok. What, what is that? That's the part that he's objecting to. Yes. And so that again, directly contradicts Miss Black statement that she provided to Lieutenant Quigley as to the fact of how she didn't have help that she was a single parent that she was on her own when in fact, she actually allowed, she actually had individuals wanted to, wanted to help and she was not allowed that was in 2005. But it's correct, but it also was in 1999 just propensity for getting into a pattern that once she did it. Now, she, I mean, she did it back then if, if he can testify as to information about what the situation was in 1998 or 1999 around the time of the incident, that's fine. But I don't think her, assuming she kept him from seeing their daughter in 2005. I don't think that has any relevance. You know, the other thing as far as conversation she had and the issue of the concealing of the death. I I get that but I don't see any connection or any relevance to the rela you know, her keeping him away from their daughter in 2005 and has anything to do with what she may or may not have done in 1998. Well, I, I actually I disagree with that. I do think that it is important for the jury to see in addition to the fact uh that several witnesses have got up on here and stated about, well, Ava, for uh for instance, she got on state and stated how that Teresa was a was very distant and disconnected from William. And here we are trying to also show how she allows other individuals or other parents to become disconnected, which also ultimately goes to the fact that she does not. So she has help, but she's constantly turning it away. I I don't think her turning away help in 2005 is relevant to what happened in 1998 or what happened and what didn't happen. I, I just don't, I don't see that other than Mr Welty's propensity argument that this is how she was. Well, your honor. I actually don't, I, I understand his propensity argument but it's not a character trait. All right. Well, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna allow the, the test. You go ahead and ask about the conversations with respect to the concealment. All that is fair game, but I don't think her keeping him away from their daughter in 2005 has any unless you can show some connection to one of the charges. I don't think that's relevant. Will it be also appropriate to ask Mr Black? Uh When is the last time he saw his daughter? I haven't asked him why. Um I'm just ask him now, I'd like to know the answer and why? Uh when is the last time you saw your daughter 2000 and to you? And why is that? I wasn't going to ask him, why did the judge at the time? I'm asking the jury is not, the jury is not here. So I wanted to, I want to know what it is at the time. She was uh Miss Teresa was seeing somebody else. So when we so called was supposed to separate it, we was doing our parenting thing. She would send her down sometimes, wasn't it? What's the relevance of that? Then when you last saw the daughter. Your honor. It again. I think it goes to the fact that he's testifying that he's also willing to help. He wants to see his daughter and Teresa Black is not help and allowing that just as people were trying to uh take care of William, she's not allowing that to happen. I know she did it. Now. That's how it's the, it's the reverse propensity as opposed to she's done it before. She's done it. Now, now you're saying she did it then and she's still doing it now. It's the, it's the same, it's the same principle. Just the timing is off. So, uh I'm gonna sustain the objection. He can talk about, um, anything having to do with anything relevant to the concealment charge, however, but we're not gonna get into his, his relationship with the daughter, um, in 2005. And judge does that also go for his relationship with MS Black? I think he spoke about her seeing someone else and why they broke up? I don't think that's right. I wasn't gonna ask you a question. You understand the ruling then? Is that OK? All right. Let's bring Js back in. OK. Go and see and put it. All right. You may continue. Um Mr Black when you all first got married. Uh What was your relationship like with you, Teresa and your daughter? And then at some point that was in North Carolina, you all moved to Alaska right. Did the topic of William come up again in Alaska? Um, at some point, can you tell the jury what Teresa told you about William? Uh, we was going to be staying with relatives and allow and that's all I knew. He was all right. He was, well, at some point or any time while you all in Alaska, did you ever, did Teresa ever allow you to talk to William on the phone? That's the strange thing I was supposed to have talked to him. Ok. And the person on the phone that you perceive to be as William, you spoke with that person on the phone. No, no, wait, hold on. You spoke to someone that you believed was William. I asked my ex-wife to call my son. I wanted to speak to, she made a phone call and I spoke to some gentleman on the phone that was supposed to be there. And did the individual and, or Teresa identify that individual on the phone as being William Teresa's son? And did you conversate with this person under the impression that that was Teresa's son, William? Yes, ma'am. And during the conversation, can you tell me, um, what did you ask the person you believe to be little William? Well, at the time since we had just got married, I'm trying to catch up with him and see how he's doing and see if you know he would allow me to be in his life. We supposed to have talk and the talk was a good conversation, but it doesn't mean nothing to me now because it wasn't him. All right. And at some point in time, did he uh was William supposed to come to Alaska? We was a range of plans for him to come to us and when you say we, who is we and his mother. All right. And uh did William ever come to Alaska to see, did you ever bring up the conversation to Teresa in reference to when William was going to come to Alaska? No, it actually kept like getting pushed off. All right. And when you say it kept getting pushed off, tell me what happened. She didn't want to talk about it. She was like you want to. All right. So at some point, was it related that he wasn't ready to come to Alaska but planned on coming, hold on, hold on to the question saying Repse your question. OK. At some point, um Was there ever, did, did you ever speak to William again after the initial conversation, the alleged person to be William? All right. So all the information was being relayed by another person as to what William was saying, objection as to the form of the question, I didn't say who the person was or honestly, I don't know how to delete it. The question was. So all the information was being relayed by another person as to William, right? Who was the question? Who was the person relaying the information to you in reference to, uh, William, uh, thoughts on coming to Alaska? Right? Who was telling you, uh, the information, relaying information to you about when he was going to come to Alaska after the initial conversation you had with William? All right. And who was your ex wife? Just to be clear? All right. And what was her married name? Teresa? All right. And do you see Teresa Black in the court room here today? Can you please identify her her location in the courtroom? And what she's wearing? The young lady sitting over there in a suit. What color is your suit? You let the record reflect that the witnesses identify the defendant, any objection, no objection. All right. The record also required. And so, uh, approximately if you can approximate how many conversations you have with Teresa about when William was coming to Alaska. Um I said about like roughly two or three more. At some point, you ended up leaving Alaska, you moved back to North Carolina. Did you move back to North Carolina by yourself? And, uh, at some point after you moved back to Alaska, did you continue to communicate? I mean, move back to North Carolina. Did you continue to communicate with Teresa? And at any time during that communication, did she speak to you about her son, William? No, at any point, um Do you recall whether or not Teresa asked you for any type of help for William? And who was he, uh, with, when he was in Georgia? The, uh, information I got from her was he was supposed to be with his family and that could be either side. So I wish I wouldn't know what side it would be. And so did you ever have an opportunity to meet William Hamilton Senior? All right. And, um, how did you meet William Hamilton Senior? Um I met that gentleman through my sister and Teresa's brother. Ok. Any, at any time that did William ever come to your house times? And what was the reason that he came to your house? I mean, he didn't come on no beef or he wasn't that upset? He just wanted to see his son and talk to her, but I was told to tell him your son is in, down in Atlanta. He's all right. And that's all I was told to tell. And you relay that information to Mr Hamilton. And did you find it odd that? Oh, well, let me, let me ask you this. Did you know um where your wife's mother and father were located at the time when we reunited in 2004? Her mother passed away, but uh she works in peace. I was real cool. Did her father live in uh Atlanta? Where did her father say? All right. And so if Teresa's mother was deceased and her father lived in Charlotte, uh who did you think little William was with? Well, since I knew her mother was gone, it had to be the side of the family. And did you find it odd that William was coming over to Teresa's house asking about his Children when they were allegedly with his side of the family at the time? I did? But nevertheless, in your eyes is common or can you tell me whether or not in North Carolina where you resided? Was it common for grandparents to look over Children? It's an old Southern thing. It's like that from a to all the older grandparents, we take our kids and take care of them if our life is not on track, if we're doing something that's a little out of line and our grandparents or mothers don't approve of it, that we will snatch the kids up and take care of them themselves. So I want to ask you, how did you come to uh provide this information to law enforcement here in Georgia? How did, how did, how did you get involved in his case? I would say by being married to her and worrying about him, I also wanted to know too because there's a young man who's coming to my door asking for his son and me being a man, I don't have no information for him. So I don't know what his next move gonna be. It can be he can get mad or do something to me. So I only told the man the truth, but I knew at some point. Did you end up speaking to law enforcement about, um, what you knew in reference to William? All right. Did you ever speak to anyone in the district attorney's office? Um, when I found out about it, I had, I had called the, what is it? The hotline? So you saw a hotline and you called the hotline and you left a message, I message with a gentleman, I don't know the gentleman name, but I did leave a message with one of the gentlemen. And then someone ultimately from the District Attorney's office contacted you. Thank you. Uh, just one moment here. No questions for this one. All right. Thank you.