I AM DEVASTATED. WE WANT GET STRAIGHT TO OUR TOP STORY. FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP IS IN COURT WHERE A GAG ORDER HEARING HAS NOW CONCLUDED IN HIS CRIMINAL HUSH MONEY TRIAL. PROSECUTORS TRUMP VIOLATED THE GAG ORDER TEN TIMES AND ARE NOW FILING A POTENTIAL 11TH VIOLATION AFTER THE FORMER PRESIDENT TALKED ABOUT KEY WITNESS, MICHAEL COHEN, YESTERDAY OUTSIDE THE COURTROOM . >> AND WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO LOOK AT? ALL THE LIES THAT FOLLOW THAT IN THE LAST WEEK LYING IN THE RESTAURANT. >> SO HE GETS CAUGHT, I'M SURE THE JUDGE TOLD TRUMP'S DEFENSE TEAM THAT A LACK OF EVIDENCE IS CAUSING THEM TO LOSE CREDIBILITY WITH THE COURT, BUT DIDN'T ISSUE A RULING IF THE JUDGE JUST FIND TRUMP IN CONTEMPT, IT COULD GIVE THE FORMER PRESIDENT ANYTHING FROM A WARNING TO JAIL TIME. NOW THE CASE WILL MOVE ON TO TESTIMONY WHERE FIRST WITNESS FORMER "NATIONAL ENQUIRER" PUBLISHER DAVID PECKER WILL RETURN TO THE STAND. PROSECUTORS SAY HE, COHEN AND TRUMP WERE INVOLVED IN A SCHEME TO CATCH AND KILL POTENTIALLY STORIES ABOUT TRUMP TO PROTECT HIS PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN. TRUMP HAS PLEADED NOT GUILTY TO FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS TO CONCEAL A HUSH MONEY PAYMENT TO ADULT FILM. ACTRESS STORMY DANIELS BEFORE THE 2016 ELECTION AND ABC NEWS INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER OLIVIA RUBIN HAS BEEN INSIDE THAT COURT ALL MORNING. SHE JOINS US NOW OUTSIDE THE COURTHOUSE, ALONG WITH ABC NEWS EXECUTIVE EDITORIAL PRODUCER JOHN SANTUCCI AND ABC NEWS LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR BRIAN BUCKMIRE. OLIVIA, THERE WERE SOME TENSE DURING THIS HEARING. THERE WERE THIS HEARING WAS TENSE. DIANE IT WAS QUITE COMBATIVE AND IT WAS HONESTLY A BIT OF A DIFFICULT ONE FOR TRUMP'S ATTORNEY. TODD BLANCHE, WHO, AS YOU SAID IN YOUR OPEN THERE, STRUGGLED PUTTING FORWARD FOR THE CLAIMS HE WAS MAKING ABOUT WHY DONALD TRUMP WAS NOT VIOLATING THE GAG ORDER IN THEIR VIEW, AND WAS MERELY JUST RESPONDING TO ATTACKS OR ATTACKING WITNESSES IN THE CASE, BUT NOT RELATED TO THE ABOUT OTHER ASPECTS WHICH IN THEIR VIEW, THEY SAID WOULD NOT A VIOLATION OF THE GAG ORDER, BUT JUAN MERCHAN THE JUDGE REALLY NOT SEEMING TO BUY ANY OF THE ARGUMENTS THAT TODD BLANCHE WAS PUTTING. HE SAID, YOU'RE NOT GIVING ME ANY CASE LAW, YOU'RE NOT ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS. IN SOME HE SAID, YOU ARE GIVING ME NOTHING TO HANG MY HAT ON AND ADDS, AND THAT THAT QUOTE YOU HAD ON WHERE HE SAID YOU'RE LOSING CAN YOUR CREDIBILITY WITH THE COURT JUST TO GIVE YOU SOME SORT OF CONTEXT AROUND THAT JUDGE MERCHAN BASICALLY GAVE TODD BLANCHE ONE LAST OPPORTUN D AND SAID, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO GIVE ME HERE BEFORE WE WRAP THIS HEARING? AND TODD SORT OF LAUNCHED THIS SPEECH BASICALLY SAYING HOW THEY'RE DEALING WITH TEN POSTS AND HE SAID THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS TRIED EVERYTHING AND IS WORKING VERY HARD TO COMPLY WITH THE JUDGE'S ORDER, WITH THE GAG ORDER, AND JUST MORE TIME CUT HIM OFF. AND HE WAS SAYING THAT AND SAID, STOP RIGHT THERE. YOU ARE LOSING ALL CREDIBILITY WITH THE COURT. YOU ARE LOSING CREDIBILITY WITH THE RIGHT NOW AND BASICALLY CONCLUDED THE HEARING RIGHT THEN AND THERE AND AS YOU SAID, HE DID NOT ISSUE A RULING. BUT IF YOU WERE TO GO BASED EVERYTHING THAT WAS SAID IN THE COURTROOM JUST NOW, YOU CANNOT IMAGINE THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE A GOOD RULING FOR DONALD TRUMP. AND AS OLIVIA MENTIONED, THE JUDGE HAS DECIDED NOT TO RULE FROM THE BENCH ON THIS. SO WHAT HAPPENS NEXT IN TERMS OF THIS POTENTIAL CONTEMPT RULING AND THIS GAG ORDER? >> SO THE OPPOSITE OF RULING FROM THE BENCH IS AN ACTUAL DECISION. YOU LOOK TO THE CALENDAR THAT'S COMING UP THE NEXT FEW DAYS. THE JUDGE, WE KNOW THAT HE HAS A COURT CALENDAR ON WEDNESDAY AND THEN BACK TO COURT FOR THIS TRIAL ON THURSDAY AND FRIDAY. SOMEBODY SOONER AT SOME POINT IN TIME. WE'RE TO GET A WRITTEN DECISION. AND I THINK WHAT WE'RE GOING TO HEAR IS HOW THE JUDGE IS TRYING TO COMPEL THE ACTIONS OF DONALD TRUMP TO CONFORM TO THAT OF THE GAG ORDER. AND HE'S GOT TO FIGURE OUT WHAT KIND OF PUNISHMENT WILL DO THAT, WHETHER IT BE A $1,000 FINE AS WHAT THE PROSECUTION IS FOR OR UNDER THE JUDICIARY CODE WHEN IT COMES TO CONTEMPT OF ORDER, POTENTIAL DAYS OF JAIL. NOW, THAT OPTION IS THERE, BUT I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO BE IN THE REALM OF JAIL TIME. I THINK IT'S GOING TO STICK FIRMLY TOWARDS SOME KIND OF FINE OR A VERY HARSH TONGUE LASHING, SO TO SPEAK JOHN, WE WERE WATCHING THIS VIDEO MOMENTS AGO, THE FORMER PRESIDENT LEAVING, THE COURTROOM, OFTEN WHEN HE LEAVES, HE STOPS THAT. HE TALKS TO THE CAMERAS. THIS TIME A BACKWARDS WAVE AND OUT THE DOOR HE TELLS YOU, SKEDADDLE AND DON'T TALK TO A CAMERA, BECAUSE CLEARLY WE GOT IN TROUBLE BY DOING THAT. AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED. COURT YOU, OLIVIA AND THE TEAM WERE NOTING EARLIER THAT IT WAS THOSE COMMENTS THAT DONALD TRUMP MADE OUTSIDE OF COURT YESTERDAY ON MICHAEL COHEN THAT ADDED TO NOW A POTENTIAL 11TH VIOLATION OF THE GAG ORDER AND. LISTEN, DONALD TRUMP CLEARLY WHEN HE GETS CAUGHT PUTTING OWN FOOT IN HIS MOUTH, GETS ANNOYED ABOUT IT. RIGHT. I MEAN, HE DOESN'T WANT TO HAVE A SITUATION WHERE SOMEBODY IS DOING A READ BACK ON HIS COMMENT SAYING YOU CAN'T THIS, YOU CAN'T DO THAT. AND CLEARLY, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT PROSECUTORS IN COURT. AND I DO THINK THE PART OF IT, THOUGH, DONALD TRUMP NEVER ADMITTED IT DOES PLAY INTO WHAT HIS AIDES ALLIES HAVE BEEN SAYING BEHIND THE SCENES, WHICH IS YOU GOT TO COOL IT, YOU GOT TO BACK OFF. AND, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, TRUMP IS REALLY WALKING A TIGHTROPE HERE BECAUSE THOUGH LEGALLY IT'S NOT GOOD FOR HIM POLITICALLY, HE'S GOT TO LEAN INTO IT BECAUSE THE ONLY ARGUMENT HE HAS RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE HE CAN'T GET OUT THERE AND TALK ABOUT ANY OF THE ISSUES BECAUSE OF WHERE HE'S STUCK. >> AND LET'S ABOUT THAT BECAUSE PROSECUTORS TODAY IN COURT SAID THEY ARE NOT YET SEEKING JAIL TIME FOR ANY OF THESE GAG ORDER VIOLATIONS, THOUGH THEY COULD, BUT THEY SAID THEY THINK TRUMP IS ACTUALLY ANGLING FOR THAT. WHY THERE'S NO REASON TO THINK. >> YOU JUST LOOK AT THE EMAIL BLAST TO SUPPORTERS YESTERDAY SAYING THEY WANT TO PUT ME IN JAIL, THEY WANT TO KEEP ME HERE. DONALD TRUMP IS LEANING IN HEAD FIRST TO ALL OF THIS, RIGHT. TRYING TO BUILD UP THE DRAMA, BUILD UP THE INTENSITY. AND THAT REALLY IS AND HAS BEEN THE CAMPAIGN STRATEGY FOR 2024. LOOK AT TIME DONALD TRUMP WENT TO A COURTHOUSE OR IN ONE CASE, A JAILHOUSE IN THE FULTON COUNTY, GEORGIA, CASE LAST YEAR, LEANING INTO RELEASING THE MUG SHOT FROM FULTON COUNTY. ALL OF THIS IS TO BUILD UP THE DRAMA THAT DONALD TRUMP, NO MATTER WHAT, WOULD RATHER BE OUT. HE MENTIONED PENNSYLVANIA TODAY BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE A PRIMARY IS HAPPENING TODAY. THAT'S WHERE DONALD TRUMP CLAIMS HE'D RATHER BE, BUT CAN'T BE BECAUSE. HE'S STUCK HERE BECAUSE THEY'RE OUT TO GET ME. HE IS OFTEN SAID THAT I'M STANDING IN THEIR WAY THAT THEY, IN HIS OPINION, IS REFERRING BIDEN AND OTHERS AND THEN IS HIS SUPPORTERS. THAT WHAT DONALD TRUMP IS TRYING TO BUILD IN ALL OF THESE COMMENTS, BRIAN, THE CENTER OF THE DEFENSE'S ARGUMENTS TODAY WAS ESSENTIALLY THAT THIS IS A POLITICAL THIS IS DONALD TRUMP DEFENDING HIMSELF. THIS IS HOW HE COMMUNICATES WITH HIS SUPPORTERS. HE'S A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE. HE'S ENTITLED TO DO THAT. THE JUDGE DIDN'T SEEM TO AGREE WITH MOST OF THAT, AT LEAST BASED ON HIS COMMENTS TO THE DEFENSE RIGHT BEFORE HE LEFT. BUT HOW CAREFUL DOES THE JUDGE HAVE TO BE HERE GIVEN HE IS DEALING WITH A CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE? >> HE HAS TO BE VERY CAREFUL IN TERMS THE PUNISHMENT THAT HE'S GOING TO HAND DOWN. I KNOW THAT IN TRUTH, SOCIAL AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG HERE, DONALD TRUMP COMPARED HIMSELF TO NELSON MANDELA. TALK TO YOUR MEDIA TRYING TO PUSH THAT LIKE I AM BEING POLITICALLY PERSECUTED. I'M WILLING TO GO TO JAIL FIRST AND FOREMOST. VASTLY DIFFERENT SITUATION TO NELSON MANDELA AND DONALD. >> I THINK HE SHOULD GO LEARN HIS HISTORY THERE. BUT I DON'T THINK JUDGE IS GOING TO BE THINKING I'M GOING TO HOLD HIM IN CONTEMPT OF COURT AND PUT HIM IN JAIL FOR ANY AMOUNT OF TIME. I THINK IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. IT IS GOING TO BE HERE IS THE REASON WHY I DID THIS. AND I THINK WHEN A JUDGE SAYS YOU'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING TO HANG MY HAT ON, HE'S BASICALLY SAYING, I WANT YOU TO GIVE ME SOME KIND OF LEGAL ARGUMENT THAT I CAN POINT TO WHEN I WRITE THIS DECISION TO SAYS, THIS IS WHY YOU'RE RIGHT. WHAT IF THE OTHER SIDE GIVES HIM SOMETHING TO HANG MY HAT ON AND YOU DO NOT BUT ONLY DECISION I CAN GIVE. PROSECUTOR LAID THIS OUT. PROSECUTOR APPROVED IT. DEFENSE LAID IT OUT. >> DEFENSE THEY DIDN'T PROVE IT. I RULE ON THE SIDE THAT DID. >> AND OLIVIA WHEN WE COME BACK, SINCE THE JUDGE OPTED NOT TO RULE ON THIS HEARING. WE COME BACK NOW TO THE TESTIMONY PORTION OF THIS TRIAL. DAVID PECKER, THE FORMER PUBLISHER FOR "THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER", LONG TIME TRUMP FAN, LONGTIME TRUMP FRIEND EXCUSE ME, IS RETURNING THE WITNESS STAND REALLY ANY MINUTE NOW. WHAT ARE YOU EXPECTING TO HEAR FROM HIM? WELL, HE'S GOING TO HAVE ABOUT 3 HOURS ON THE STAND TODAY. YESTERDAY, HE ONLY HAD ABOUT 20 MINUTES TO SORT OF LAY OUT WHO HE WAS FOR THE JURY. HE TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW HE RAN "THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER", THIS MODE OF CHECKBOOK JOURNALISM, BASICALLY BUYING STORIES THAT THEY WERE GOING TO PUBLISH. AND HE SPOKE ABOUT HOW HE WAS THE ONE THAT WOULD APPROVE WHAT STORIES WENT OUT AND WHAT STORIES DID NOT. AND THE ULTIMATE PUBLISHING DECISION AND THE REASON THAT'S SO CRUCIAL AS OF TODAY, HE CAN GET INTO THE SUBSTANCE OF HIS TESTIMONY, WHICH IS GOING TO BE ABOUT HOW HE ALLEGEDLY WORKED WITH DONALD TRUMP'S ATTORNEY, MICHAEL COHEN, TO CATCH KILL STORIES THAT WERE NEGATIVE ABOUT DONALD TRUMP SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT COME OUT AND HOW HE HELPED FACILITATE THAT $130,000 PAYMENT TO STORMY DANIELS. SO SHE WOULD NOT TELL HER STORY. AND HE IS THE FIRST WITNESS THAT WE'RE HEARING FROM DIANE. IN THIS CASE, THOUGH, YOU HAVE TO IMAGINE THAT HE'S GOING TO BE SORT A STORYTELLER FOR THE JURY. AND I WOULD ALSO POINT OUT HIS DEMEANOR YESTERDAY, DIANE, WAS QUITE INTERESTING WHEN HE TOOK THE STAND, BECAUSE REMEMBER, HE WALKED RIGHT BY IN THAT COURTROOM, OLD FRIEND DONALD TRUMP, AND TOOK THE WITNESS STAND WITH A HUGE SMILE ON HIS FACE. SO IT WILL BE VERY INTERESTING TO SEE HOW PLAYS OUT IN THAT COURTROOM TODAY WITH DONALD TRUMP LIKELY EYEING HIS OLD FRIEND WHILE HE TESTIFIES. AND JOHN, WITHIN THAT DYNAMIC, THERE'S ALSO THE OF YOU KNOW, WE'VE HEARD MICHAEL COHEN TALK ABOUT THIS ISSUE. WE'VE HEARD STORMY DANIELS TALK ABOUT THIS CASE, THIS ISSUE. DAVID PECKER HAS NEVER ADDRESSED THIS CASE UNTIL. NOW, HOW SIGNIFICANT IS IT FOR HIM TO NOW BE ON THE STAND, FACE TO FACE WITH, DONALD TRUMP WELL, IN SOME WAYS I'M SHOCKED THAT THESE WORDS IN MY MOUTH, IT'S KIND OF DEVASTATING FOR DONALD TRUMP, RIGHT. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IN SOME WAYS YOU KNEW MICHAEL COHEN, YOU KNEW STORMY DANIELS, KNEW OTHERS THAT HAD A TURN AROUND AND WRITTEN BOOKS OR, YOU KNOW, HAVE BECOME TV COMMENTATORS NOW ATTACKING HIM. DAVID PECKER IS ONE OF THE VERY FEW PEOPLE IN THIS SAGA THAT IS NOT SOMEONE THAT IS STILL A FRIEND TO ME, OLIVIA NOTED. JUST THE BODY LANGUAGE IN TWO OF THEM YESTERDAY. >> IT'S GOING TO BE HARD YOU KNOW, WE REALLY DIDN'T GET INTO THIS YESTERDAY BECAUSE OF SUCH A LIMITED AMOUNT OF TIME. >> WE WE CAUGHT WRAPPING EARLY. WE JUST GOT INTO THE BASICS NAME DATE, OCCUPATION, BIRTH DATE, ALL OF THAT STUFF. WE REALLY DIDN'T GET INTO THE OF THE CASE. SO WHEN WE GAVEL IN AND GET GOING SHORTLY, WE'RE GOING TO HEAR ALL IN. QUITE UNFORTUNATELY FOR DONALD TRUMP, IT'S GOING TO BE HARD TO HEAR A FRIEND AND A LONG TIME ALLY OF HIS STILL ON THAT, SAID BRIAN, THE DEFENSE IS EXPECTED TO ONE THAT THIS WASN'T ILLEGAL FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS, BUT ONE OF THE ANGLES THEY'RE EXPECTED TO TAKE IS THAT DONALD TRUMP, AS THEY SAID IN OPENING STATEMENTS, HE'S A MAN. HE'S NOT JUST THE PRESIDENT. HE'S NOT JUST A GUY ON. TV HE'S A MAN WITH A FAMILY AND A WIFE. SO HOW HARD IS IT TO BE FOR THE PROSECUTION TO PROVE, EVEN IF THEY CAN GO AHEAD AND PROVE THAT THIS SCHEME HAPPENED, BUT THAT THE INTENT WAS TO PROTECT HIS STATUS AS A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE AND INFLUENCE THE ELECTION AND NOT TO PROTECT THIS MAN FROM HAVING HIS FAMILY FIND OUT ABOUT THESE ALLEGED AFFAIRS AND HEAR THESE NEGATIVE STORIES. >> I THINK THEN COME DOWN TO THE CONVERSATIONS WITH PECKER AS WELL AS COHEN. AND FROM OUR UNDERSTANDING IN THE OPENING STATEMENTS FROM THE PROSECUTION, SOME OF THESE CONVERSATIONS WERE REPORTEDLY RECORDED. >> AND SO IT DOWN TO, OKAY, IF THAT'S WHAT THE DEFENSE IS ARGUING. AND I THINK IT'S GREAT ARGUMENT, BUT YOU GOT TO BE ABLE TO BACK IT UP WITH ACTUAL EVIDENCE AND NOT JUST ARGUMENTS . OKAY, SO WHEN PECKER TAKES THE STAND, ARE WE GOING TO HEAR THAT? DONALD TRUMP CAME TO HIM AND SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT, I REALLY LOVE MELANIA. I CAN'T HER HEAR ABOUT THIS. THIS WOULD DEVASTATE THE CHILDREN. THINK ABOUT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN. BARRON OR ARE WE GOING TO HEAR, NO, JUST I WANT TO WIN THIS ELECTION. I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO HEAR ABOUT THIS BECAUSE OF THE "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD" TAPES, BECAUSE OF THE CONSISTENT KAREN MCDOUGAL STORY. NOW, STORMY DANIELS, I WANT TO WIN THIS ELECTION. WATCH DONALD TRUMP. ARE WE GOING TO HEAR THE DEFENSE COME TO THE ARGUMENT. >> THIS IS A MAN, A HUSBAND, FATHER, AND THAT'S NOT SUPPORTED BY THE EVIDENCE. THE SAME WAY THE JUDGE SAID, YOU'RE LOSING CREDIBILITY. IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN FRONT OF THE JURY. AND THAT CAN BE CONVERTED TIME. >> ALL RIGHT. OLIVIA RUBIN, JOHN SANTUCCI BRIAN BUCKMIRE
