Ta-Nehisi Coates | The Power of the Word | SXSW 2018

if you like the Prime Minister of Great Britain you're blockin yeah so let's talk about brexit today thank you all very very much for coming what I'm telling you when you run for president just get used to it right the it is kind of odd for you right now people walking up with yourself it's all right POTUS she's enthusiastic let it be enthusiastic what's the difference thank you all very very much for coming on behalf of everyone at the Atlantic including tenacity we want to thank you very much for for coming out I hope that you've been reading the Atlantic forever but especially over the last year year and a half journalism is I think in my humble opinion more urgent than ever but before we before we talk about the collapsing world and democracy on the retreat and the resurgence of racism in America I want to talk to you about something important which is which is the announcement you made this week that you're going to be the writer of Captain America I can't believe that many Captain America fans out here by the way but a movie not to come yeah yeah yeah the talk about that for a minute well you i want to i want to i want you to update people on your on your comic writing career well the cool thing about Captain America is inevitably it will be related to all the other things that you mentioned before that that are less important than Captain America I was you know it's interesting because you know I grew up in West Baltimore in the 80s in this household where you know I tell people all the time Malcolm X I really have Jesus but Malcolm X was like Jesus in my household is as weird as that sounds and it would not be very likely at that point in my life that I would read a comic book called Captain America I just didn't grow up in that sort of home and I didn't really read Captain America even I was a huge comic book fan he was in all that a comic book so he's sort of unavoidable but I wasn't gonna follow Captain America and it was only later in my life that I actually did begin to you know follow the character in my you know mid 20s you know early 30s and one of the more interesting things is because he's called Captain America you think he's sort of this nationalistic flag waver but in fact what he I want to say something but I don't want to say it oh it's just us don't worry about it um okay I'm gonna say this he's like Barack Obama okay and and I want to like clarify that I don't know necessarily mean that as praise or criticism he is someone who believes in the ideal of America and like really really believes in it like really really you know believes that it's possible really believes that it you know it actually could be and so I think within that is depending on the reader a mix of admirable idealism or disappointing naivete all of that is you know in there and and I think like one of the reasons why I'm really attracted to the character does anybody who knows my work I don't fall anywhere near any of that but when you're writing comic books you know you can't like live in your place you can't live in your world it's some of the journalism in the sense that the task is to figure out how someone how an intelligent person indeed how you could come to arrive at that you know sort of point of view in that view of the country even as it's so different from your variance I mean I think what you're saying and I and I and I phrase this a certain way but I'm serious about the question I think what you're saying is that you're gonna have to find something good to say about America in this process just hard to say something good about America I love America great food great culture cool people you know just cuz I don't like the politics doesn't mean I don't like the country it's the new American motto sure look cool people nobody you're gonna have to step outside yourself and I just want to say something good it's like to believe in America as an ideal and as a great ideal do you not I mean and and like to be loyal to them I know but I'm asking if you know do I know myself yeah can you can you can you bring yourself to do that you're on this process yeah I'm looking forward to doing that okay yeah you don't like right I mean you notice like when you're gonna profile somebody you know go to profile them you know to simply you know vet your own beliefs you really want to know why they took and when you go to sit down the write the task is to translate that you know as you know fairly and accurately as you can while you know still you know having maybe your share of criticism so I look forward to trying to inhabit the character of somebody that really believes that right you know who holds that up um I think you can do that and still have your own you know set of beliefs let's discuss I wrote Black Panther and I don't know I didn't know I don't want to be king of Wakanda yeah yeah I was able to do that you know how many people come up to you and go what kind of forever now stewardess did that stewardess did that flight attendants cues me that's not the polite term flight attendant it was great I love that is so cool so anybody can do that to me anytime I'm really ok with that I'm good with that it's not awkward at all no I love it all right all right well let's talk about Black Panther for a minute and I want you to contextualize Black Panther in this moment obviously it's a huge success people could have predicted a certain level of success but not this level of success so one why is it so successful and two is that success based in part on the moment in American history where in yeah I mean I think the first reason why is so successful is it was created by a great filmmaker and someone who in Ryan Coogler who was on his way to becoming as far as I'm gonna you know wanted a preeminent artists of his generation he has made three very different movies at this point all of them really really really well done I say that because I think as you know I'm about to be talked about the content with the meaning of the movie but if the movie sucks none that none of this matters if the craft is not well done none of that actually matters and I think that that should not be forgotten in addition to that I think what he was able to do is to reach into a conflict that is not often tapped in in terms of movies or on that level on the level of Marvel Comics or a Disney movie and that is the very fraught very beautiful and very tense relationship between black people across the Diaspora and there is so much room for mythology and storytelling you know in that in that relationship you see this both not just in the you know the central conflict I hope I guess I'm about to spoil this for some it's by someone in is because they don't spoil me no see people here same black hammer [Applause] you're all right no you're all right you're all right but I mean you know does this basic dynamic that's that's you know represented by you know Michael B Jordan character and Jonica kill manga you know this idea that there should be you know this you know i aid should be given you know helps you begin you know in the form of actual revolution between you know those who have a knife or than those who do not in in black America and so that thing you know it's powered all the way you know through the movie but at the same time if you look at the cast man I mean you got black folks from Oakland you know you got black folks you know in the director you got you know black folks in South Carolina black folks in Trinidad Tobago London Zimbabwe Kenya we've never seen anything like that it is you know a beautiful you know soil you know a testament to that diaspora I think that's a great deal of artistic energy and I you know for somebody else you know gonna reach their hand into it which I think people regardless of their culture recognizing city to place it in the context of American politics in the moment yeah I think it's not a mistake that when you have like say a president who refers to Haiti as a who talks to disparagingly of you know Nigerians who became president for his commentary you know across the board he's negative commentary across the board towards people of color that when you have a film like that that says what it says about black people that presents them as a literal royalty the folks glam that and folks want to say look I think if Barack Obama was present at that film still would have been successful I wouldn't be like really really clear about that but do I feel like there was a need right now specifically in the larger country yeah yeah I do and I also think there was a need again regardless of who was president among black people to see the experience presented with all the glamour to fill that golf you know mythology and legend that white people get all the time somebody told me a story about how somebody was walking you know he heard somebody walking out of the black panther from their 125th in Harlem Magic Johnson theaters the dude comes out he's high and he says to his buddy so this is what white people feel like everyday because those stories are presented like that every day if you think about it across the board I mean Black Panther there I don't know how many black panthers are gonna be produced over the next year you know starring or predominantly Cass and so I think like the novelty of that and the fact that it was done by one of the talent most talented directors in Hollywood right now I think just it's just huge let me shift to the president the previous president but let me let me back into it by talking a little bit about journalism because I don't think we've actually talked about this very much but I'm wondering a year and a half in to this drama I wanted to get your assessment of how the quote-unquote mainstream media of which we're both part it's doing I have a very specific question about that and what sort of the more general question the very specific part is this argument about objectivity the discomfort a lot of people in our industry still have about using the term racist to describe the sitting president of the United States just give me your give me your your feelings about that and and it maybe broaden out the the answer a little bit to talk about the role that we're playing right now I had the optimistic that is extremely odd if you've no no no no actually because I think like people are actually becoming more comfortable with you know like after this comment you know I mean I think a lot of people who I mean you have to like I've been making this argument you know about you know the centrality of racism innocence house centrality of white supremacy in the country and in American politics you know for a while now and I don't know that people more you know in line with that argument but I see a lot less hesitancy about Trump than I've seen in the past I guess a lot of people feel you know sort of like they're always negative feelings about how you know media comes that I actually think like folks are doing a really really good job like if I go through like the kind of investment you have to remember I don't like like maybe if I you know watch more TV like about watch CNN and I through MSNBC in this and Fox enters I might feel differently I can only you know like I in this era we judge by by what we read and I read newspapers I read a lot of investigative I read magazines I think a lot of that stuff is really really bang-up you know I think the reporters have been doing what reporters do you know producing scoops you know out there you know digging stuff up I've read some you know really really incredible features you know so I have an oddly optimistic I think media's actually performing pretty well right now let me ask you a sort of a breakout question from that this has to do though I could read less of these profiles that seek to go into quote-unquote Trump country and acts people are they sorry yet for voting for I didn't know why why because the premise is like these focus did not know what they were doing and they did and that's what they always find out when they hear huh like you people are not sorry because they knew what they were doing and I don't say that in any sort of in fact I don't say any sort of condescending or disparaging way I say that in fact out of you know incredible respect you know for their intelligence they did know what they were doing but less respect for their racism no respect for their racism at all no because I mean what you're saying implicitly is that is that these reporters are going out naively thinking that oh now you've seen this you know it was realized but isn't then that this is the premise of one of your recent articles obviously a magazine that no ashley race was central to the decision-making process yes and they say it to the reporters when they go out there and the report is a shock that that's what they you know it says though they think like they misheard Trump or they didn't quite get what was saying that when he you know he said about the judge he's a Mexican that's somehow like that didn't he's a Mexican no I mean I think you know people vote but people for all sorts of reasons you know and sometimes those reasons they're not reasons that we like you know let me come back to journals in one second there's a big continuing controversy around the New York Times opinion page which is a stand in argument for the idea that there can be you can have differing opinions appear in the same sort of publications this involves us personally in a way because we have a lot of friends volved in this Contras but but talk about that because it does seem as if there are a lot of people in America who want to make sure that their reading experience is pure in a kind of way I think I have to say it's so weird to say to see you I think I have to say in all fairness I can't answer that question and I can't answer that question because the editor of the editorial page is James Bennett who is responsible for my career as one of our best friends why am i best yes exactly who I just had dinner with I have gone through the experience of having my friends or people who I thought were my friends commenting with my life it's not fun it's not fun so that doesn't mean if people shouldn't have their opinions about the Times editorial page and critiques I'm not saying that at all I'm not being a booster here I'm just saying that my relationship with James let me push on this and maybe broaden it out okay I mean this is there a problem in the media in the in the press and the quality press whatever you want to talk about of this idea that we're supposed to be big tents where you're supposed to have I mean we've had this discussion before at the Atlanta you know it's like looking for people who are pro Trump in some way to write for us there's a very very specific problem in that for us and I'm not saying this in a condescending or snarky way but but anything that appears in our magazine has to pass a basic fact-checking test right and so it's it's very no no I don't I mean I'm really I'm a little really true that's literally true like you can make the argument for Trump but you have to use a set of facts that are empirical um to make that to make that argument nevertheless yeah it's a sad state of affairs when people are applauding for the idea that we should know it didn't true things right here we are but but the question is I mean it is there room in the media it does everything have to be are you either in the resistance or not in the resistance well let me put it this way are you in the resistance no I'm internal I'm a writer I'm writing no I would never identify my that way I'm a writer I think my opinions and my politics are very very clear but I have long felt that one should one can be in sympathy with the aims of activists so I says I'm in deep sympathy obviously with black lives matter I would not identify myself as pot and by the way black has not acted out of me by the way so I'm not you know it's not been an exchange that we've had you know from the leadership but I just like my job is different you know my job my job is you know it requires something different I think often even like it's often the people who are most in sympathy with that you acquire the most distance from because they're the people who you love that if you who you want to win they're the people who you know in your private moments you're cheering on and when you're called to write even though you have your opinions there has to be a kind of basic fairness which by which I do not mean objectivity and lack of opinion but you have to have you know as you said a kind of loyalty to facts you know what I mean that you know you can struck your opinions out of the job activist is different it's not so much the activists can you know live bending the truth or anything like that it's that the job of the activist is to get people to do something that just requires a very very different approach to the world I'm not trying to convince people to necessarily do a thing I'm trying to interpret you know a problem as I see it you know I offer up you know my analysis of it enacting for instance the goal of you know say enacting I don't know what police reform in Baltimore City you know might require you to say certain things to the community say certain things to you know the powerbrokers approach them in a certain way in order to affect actual change writers don't really have to do that you know writers you know called the you know do something a little different so you opened the door and I have to walk in will come to Trump and Obama in a minute but Cornel West right part of his might not open that door you open that door it's very obvious that you just I mean you open that door uh-huh the door was open I just walked through I'm walking through no because Cornell part of the critique of Cornell west of you is that you're not opining or you're not leading the charge of on the left for in income equality or or a structural change in capitalism or a whole set of other things that he wants you to do and your response has been that's not my job but but maybe you can can stay on that subject just for a minute and and contextualize this one-sided argument because we've noticed that you haven't really argued back at him but but talk about what's going on in that and that in that controversy a little bit hmm and it might be the answer that I'm a writer and I do whatever I want and you know that's the answer I was hoping for more though I haven't talked to Cornel West I don't know you know what where I came from I don't know the root of that is what I'll say about myself I'll say what I said before that I think you know to be you know a writer to be addressed I think it's very different than folks who are you know call to go out into the streets and to do certain things but I'll say on top of that two things I'll say first of all if there is a construction I think what it has been a construction and I grew up with this in the 90s of what people call public intellectuals and what I'm sometimes calling I hate that title for reasons that will remain you know there will be a parent in a second wherein you have somebody who is perceived as brilliant smart intelligent all these sort of adjectives when you win the MacArthur Genius that they put on you right and that therefore means that you can be brilliant smart intelligent on anything the notion is that it's it's here you you have a certain you know facility within your brain that does not necessarily require you to be particularly deep read on a subject you can brief that person in 10 minutes and they can spit out a you know a useful response you know for folks who say wow profound I'm not smart like that I don't possess that that kind of intelligence I possess a kind of curiosity that allows me to go deep on a particular thing for a long piece I talk with my wife about this all the time like I'm not like a fast reader I'm not particularly fast do you know what I mean I prefer and you know this is you know probably part of you know just how I process information to go specifically deep on a particular thing and then I can tell you what I can tell you about that particular thing but if you ask me for something that I haven't really read on I haven't really reported on that I haven't really thought deeply about I'm not gonna say much about it I'm just not because I came up in an era where people spoke on all sorts of things it was quite clear even if you didn't know much about those things that that person hadn't thought about it but the way the world is organized the intellectual economy of the world is you will be in a room like this and people will chair for it anyway I'm not saying you guys specifically but when talking is your profession do you understand people they cheer for you even when you haven't said anything you know particularly you know deep or profound or well read you know you can be as you know folks say all the time you know you know you're showing yourself to be an expert on people who think they're experts would aren't all right you could be like you know wouldn't say a mile wide and an inch deep right that that happens all the time and that that's just not a thing I that's why you're not a national television commentator I'm not know at all and it's not what I want to be it's just not what I want to be and I get activists all the time who come and you know I meet with and I meet with them mostly because I usually learn something by meeting with them about you know whatever you know subject that they're they're working or who I might be in sympathy with politically love what they're doing as a private person not as a writer but as just you know a citizen of United States citizen of the world black person love what they're doing who want me to say well you're so brilliant on this and you had this fiery sense of justice when this clearly that means you come over here and do and I can't I tell them it's not that easy I can't just turn it on and if you if I did what you wanted it would ultimately embarrass your cause because the minute I had to stand up next to somebody who knew something about that who was on the opposing side I would be embarrassed they would humiliate me they would destroy me in any sort of debate you know and so I just some I have to you know like I think about it as fighting you know what I mean when you throwing a punch you know your feet have got to be set you know and my feet are setting the thing that I have read researched and thought about just one quick thing in addition a tattoo I think also there's no an electoral fight like a sectarian fight it is often the people who historically it's often when you have to quote unquote thinkers writers whatever who agree on 95% who viciously denounced each other well that 5% I don't I don't want to embarrass anybody but I just you know just to make this really really specific at the same time that you know that's what attack was coming in from you know towards me from Cornel West and other people he was touring the country with a gentleman by the name of Robert joy who's a professor up at Harvard who thinks for instance that LGBT people shouldn't have the right to be married they were up here in the gap you know I mean they were in debate but they were friendly with each other they were you know what I mean and that was okay and it's just you know sort of wild to see you know when you have you know someone who you know is so obviously opposed on you know basic rights you know for for you know a group of people but somehow you guys can find common ground but you know we who are much more closely aligned we can like we you know have to do this you know this is denunciation back and forth I am is that in part because there doesn't seem to be enough room in the public discourse for many black intellectuals publics are to use expression for public intellectuals I mean is it it's is it is it a zero-sum game in other words that people have to tear you down because they have to get back up on top of the hill I hate all this mad with it but you make an interesting point going back to this New York Times point that you also won't answer that no it's interesting like there's sometimes the anger toe on the left or the New York Times seems hotter than the anger on the left toward Fox News in a way because Fox News is just Fox News that's cause you think the New York Times should know better yeah well that's maybe that's the same thing with me right maybe that's the answer to the question I just gave right like maybe it's closer to the fact is that you feel like the people who were closer to you actually really really should know about it and you've almost kind of dismissed the folks that over here like just complain you have no real respect for them anyway so it's ok it doesn't make you as angry right one of the critiques and this is a difficult spot for you because one of the critiques is is on some parts of the laughters that you weren't tough enough on Barack Obama I know somebody who believes that not to be true and that's Barack Obama he believes that you're tough enough but or too tough but I think would be interesting for people to listen to you talk for a few minutes about your relationship with Obama I don't mean just your personal relationship with Obama but your intellectual relationship and how Obama is kind of at the appearance of Obama and the success of Obama is the animating force behind so many of the pieces that you did in the Atlantic over the last nine years and of course the book I don't know where you want to start on that it's a big question but it's it's fascinating the people yeah I mean it you know as you said it's time for the question I won't answer you know as you know I write in my new book people eight years in power won't sell now [Music] everybody's selling I came to the Atlantic through a piece you know that I wrote on Bill Cosby but that was overshadow you know by you know the fact that it looked like you know what we did we had our first really really serious you know our first african-american nominee for president and as I said before James Bennett was the editor who did that it was um a life-changing event for me the fact of Barack Obama I think for journalists across the board not just me writers across the board it created an appetite a curiosity about certain things I had been practicing I was 2008 I have been practicing for 12 years at that point and at no point was anybody as interested you know in what I was writing or you know this area that I was that I have been interested in as when Barack Obama became president it just you know opened an entire you know I don't know room up you know for Jones that weren't there before what was their relationship like I mean so we don't blog anymore I think that's a huge part of it right that's gone but during you know the period of time that he was there you know I blogged you know what I mean all the time it wanted a more you know challenging aspects I felt in my task was to reflect the very real joy that the community that I was a part of that I lived in felt at the same time you know to express my own you know very very specific opinions you know some of the things that you know I found deeply disappointing the Morehouse speech obviously is one of the things we immediately that immediately come to mind you know his embrace of respectability politics the basic notion that of colorblind policy you know which Barack Obama Greyston basically every you know democratic president before him embrace that the best way to help black people who had been injured by policy that was not in fact colorblind was through you know some sort of colorblind remediation class-based policies as we call it was a huge huge area you know of disagreement you know and I'd you know criticized him you know all the way through forth at the same time you know with my own politics there's also you know the fact of you know there were people who felt that he was just a symbol and not always you know drew me up right because it's like again I guess it's the flip side of that question about you know all of these sort of you know reporters who go out in the Trump country say are you are you sorry yet the basic notion again is that voters don't know what they're doing and one of the things you know I concluded just talking to black folks just watching the black folks just watching black folks is that yeah is a simple but maybe that simples like really really important maybe we under a sand you know the kind of Confederate flag is also a symbol all those monuments that we're pulling on these are also just symbols these are not in and of themselves create the wealth gap but maybe symbols actually have some sort of power maybe they make some sort of statement about you ambition movies I mean Black Panther you know we started this conversation you know black rabbit in and of itself is not a piece of policy it's not reparations not gonna you know what I mean in of itself do anything about any of the social action economic indicators but we have always said that before Barack Obama you know the fact that every single president was white male had some sort of import we knew that it could not beat it the simple symbol of Barack Obama had no employ and so as is almost always this conflict between you know expressing you know your disappointment in him in terms of you know how he addressed black folks and very how shall we say cautious way you know he dealt with you know racism you know in this tree and the fact that the actual people who you were talking with you you know I mean I don't know that there was a more popular person in in in black America than Barack Obama did that mean black people have been brainwashed had they been fooled that they somehow they been hoodwinked you know and as you know as I said again as you know you know I would make the same case you know for folks in Trump country I just don't that's not my approach to the electorate I think folks know what they're doing you know and it's much more interesting to me to try to figure out the why of what they're doing go to this go to the go to your writing about Trump for a minute could Trump have become president without Barack Obama before him any chance at all Trump could not have become president without the response to Barack Obama and it's important to state it that way because I don't think as anything Barack Obama did except be a human being who happened to check african-american want his census for you think that was so provocative yes Arnold true that in itself yes yes and it makes sense you know it makes sense if you believe that you know racism and white supremacy is a central thread in American politics it makes sense that a black president would be a shock to the system it makes sense it makes sense that on one side you know like we like to celebrate you know that that response to folks like you know say in Millennium Park you know when Barack Obama was elected in 2008 but what we don't see is that other folks might have had a response to that too and in fact if you look closely through that do those whole eight years it's actually they're coming consistently don't know that those eight years anywhere from half to you know a narrow majority of the Republican Party believe that the President of the United States was illegitimate because he was not born in this country I mean that's an incredible statement that's an incredible incredible you know statement that I think was something that was different and you know Trump obviously you know this was how he you know began his presidential run you know by embracing that idea and it was an idea that was much much more powerful than anybody including bra mama by the way understood powerful enough to make you president the United States you you are famous for among other things arguing that there is not necessarily a moral arc of the universe that bends toward justice you've written that there might be more there might be an arc but it bends toward chaos right so so the question is are we in a temporary phase right now or are we back to the mean in other words we have this experiment where we picked a black guy to be President but that was nice and now we're back to something we're back to the norm do you see do you see this as the last withdrawing roar to borrow from math you aren't the last word roaring roar of American white supremacist thinking or are we just back to way it's always been it's probably not the last I would say either those I mean how old was Dylan roof 2021 he's a kid it wasn't like the people marching on Charlottesville was 65 years old there's a lot of young people marching on Charlottesville you know and so I think it's you know naive to think that this this the force that has been so powerful in American history and politics is just gonna age out so I wouldn't say that I don't know where this goes but I have to believe that given the power of the White House to have somebody in office who is as ignorant as Trump is that that has long-term effects you know that even if you you know go beyond race relations you know they go beyond everything well I think like anything else you know the way you know white supremacy works in this country is it first you know screws you know folks over in its narrow area and then it spills out into everything else so I don't think Trump exists without birtherism but birtherism is not the end of the harm in which you'll cause you know and I don't I think that'll you know whether Trump is you know re-elected or not I think will be grappling with that for a while a question a lot of journalists get I get this a lot is is okay so you guys in the mainstream media you're doing pretty well now because people are reading you people are subscribing in solidarity with the idea and Free Press but how are you going to reach the let's say the hardcore 3035 maybe even 40 percent of America that seems to be that doesn't accept the basic enlightenment values that there's some such a thing as observable truth right the question I have for you is how do you what does the answer that question is I don't think anybody's come up with a really good one yet how do you as a journalist go to people who still support Trump and and still believe that he's gonna deliver on the things that he promises and and say to them well actually here are a set of facts and you should be swayed by these facts in other words how do you as a journalist recommend recommend we we try to convince people to come back into the fold of observable reality I'm sorry it's my job is your job though in a kind of way you got a you got to go out and try to tell people that here's truth and yours falsely no yeah but you can't I think buried in your question is the notion that it's your job to well first of all breda is that if you present you know a set of facts that have been verified that they somehow will say oh those are facts I'm convinced oftentimes they're another set of facts that people are operating on that maybe can't be repeated in polite company well that sometimes are actually repeated in polite company as it turns out you know as we're learning but I guess I'm skeptical at at because that to me again is actually more the job of activeness activist had to figure out how to phrase x y&z so only people are convinced cuz they're actually trying to move him the job you need somebody who has the ability to say the things that may not be digestible you like if we all start writing like Senate aides if we all start writing you know in such a way that and I guess on top of that you know it has long been the way for black journalist and black writers to soften their words to soften their blows so that white people will hear them and to me that just takes all the fun out of writing why right alright go go lead a bunch of diversity seminar somewhere I mean what like why write the beautiful thing about writing is you know when you sit down at that computer to manage you in the white page this is you and that page you not I mean and in this you know narrow horrible thing about that is the horrible thing to yes it's both horrible and beautiful you know you can do whatever you want you also can do nothing like that's you know what I mean both of those things can happen you know so I'm gonna stipulate that there are many white people in America who don't like you but are you ever surprised by the he has Gallup polling this question on a daily basis actually are you surprised I mean look at this audience are you surprised that there are so many white people who do actually agree with your understanding of where we're at and does that give you any hope I RI use that word I am but I shouldn't be there are hundreds of millions of white people in this clot of white dude - country and so that's room enough for a lot of white people to not like me into a much sway much smaller group of white people to like me and still have a room like this so I should be less surprised a working will being less surprised less surprised that a relatively small group of white people like me why would you be surprised why would I be surprised yeah I think because I'm I write the way I just stated I think like that there's a notion that somehow if we explain things in a certain way to white people if we hold their hands like kindergarteners and walk them through racism 101 they'll get it and one of my motivating features you know for writing was you know I was talking to you know a writer you know you notice this person at the Atlantic and I was telling him the other day you know the best thing I what I love about how he writes is he writes angry he writes the way of you know athletes should play angry this guy writes angry I told my said I'm reading this piece right now man and you're not writing angry and when I write I don't I'm not trying to hold hands I'm trying to write angry anger gets a bad rap you know what I mean anger is a very very human emotion that can be good for something you know and I try to rival all of that force and all of that tonight sitting in you know all of that heart you know that I have and III just some I think what a lot of us were trained to believe was if you do that you know black folks will hear you and nobody else will and so I think what I told myself was okay that's fine if but only black folks hear me I'm good I'm okay with that and then you know you look up and lo and behold it turns out to be more than that I'm gonna go to some of these questions ever again but I've got a lot of good questions here this is a very good one we've talked about this in the past if you could ask the 45th president I don't know why they didn't write the name I wonder who that is only one question what would it be I mean this is horrible for Jonas to say I don't feel like I have questions for tronco no no no no no no you must you're a profiler I mean among other things but he's so blatant like it's so like there's nothing there's no dissembling like he says it like he fired at FBI director hey why'd you fire the FBI the Rebbe said I thought this Russia thing was bad so I fired him like there's no second level it's clear it's clear isn't that refreshing in the kinda like you know problem-solve you know Donald Trump why don't you like judge Carillo he's a Mexican he said is good he's a Mexican why can't we have people from maybe Haiti's a country I mean okay I know what you think now I know what you think the why though why don't you ever want it I mean it's a happen to be expressing my own personal fantasy that tana hössi Coates goes to the Oval Office it's been two hours of Donald that would be and that would be a comic book that would be that would be a hell of a comic book what's there to say is like well tell me your first experience with african-americans why you know like what was it like in Queens when you're growing up I just said that would that be interesting I sign it I think I'll be fascinating I would like to hear him explicate I mean that you're I'm assuming a level again I'm not trying to sound condescending here I'm assuming of there's that there can be a level of thoughtfulness in the interchange that would allow him to reflect a little bit on his early experiences with people from other groups there is nothing about Donald Trump that strikes me as reflective no I know I'm talking about earth-2 I'm talking about earth-2 right now I got that but I would I would I would think that would be an interesting thing for a reporter to try to do that's all I'm saying huh no I guess it's not gonna be you're not gonna be reading that in the Atlantic anything I'm saying obviously there are other like you know concern who I actually would you know I think I actually would enjoy oh you know talking to I mean anybody else Paul Ryan you know I mean I'd have some questions for Paul Ryan well will be your question if all Ryan do you really really believe in this taxes you really really believe this is everything because like Paul Ryan like there's some cover right like sexy so you know at me like it actually is you know AG you know that mean like and I'm sure somewhere in there is some belief in somewhere and there's a lot so do you not I mean and so the journalist you go and try to figure out which is which you know but with Trump it's just that's what it is man this is what it is all made you very rich you know I mean like it's a straight you know down the line I could shoot somebody out in the middle of Fifth Avenue you know what I mean like it's just a straight okay alright what else thank got it got it I'm working that Paul Ryan thing here's a question you wrote an entire book about your son and his relationship to being black in the u.s. what would the ideal superhero look like to your son I feel unqualified to answer that I don't know I have no idea I know does that mean that would you want me to edit like um like when I was thinking my superheroes with spider-man and I don't like to regret that you know spider-man is awesome you know I mean great power great responsibility I know about that you know what I mean like that's a beautiful you know sort of message so I don't know who ever he'd be interested in next year we're gonna have we both have sons the same age we were actually gonna we were thinking about sending them out here instead of us how long that would go we've talked about comic books all that here's a question that that I asked with some hesitation because you might you might bag it on the grounds that it's more of an activist question but what would incentivize the privileged to understand and actively work to reverse the and justices that not only built America but still plagued America to date the belief that it was so central to their interests that they had that he just had to get done we have examples that it's all through history of the onset of the American Civil War no one on either side wanted black people fighting in that war Frederick Douglass goes Abraham Lincoln says listen let me you know raise a regiment of black soldiers to find Abraham Lincoln does not want black folks fighting emancipation proclamation is about 1862 and that's the first you know sort of you know presidential dogmas says you know that you can raise black troops well bought in you know the union's getting his butt kicked and it's like we actually you know what I mean we're going to win we actually need black people to fight you know I'd rather they didn't I wish they couldn't you know I mean because the whole notion of soldiers deeply caught up in this idea of citizenship and it's quite clear that once folks start dying for their country you have to you know start talking about rights for them they held it off for as long as they could you know and it got so bad that by the point right it by you know towards the end of the war the Confederate Army have you seen these black folks out there fighting we need it's not think I have some black people fight for us right you know your interest gets Oh racism is a luxury as long as you can afford it you're going to a four-hit it's in those moments where you can't afford it why does Robert F Kennedy you know decide that you know something needs to be done about the Freedom Riders well because the Soviet Union is you know using this as a kind of propaganda because it's this idea that the country needs to be represented you know their larger interests at stake in the idea of seeing America as democracy as a democracy and as the leader of democracy and when you see people getting bombed on a bus simply because they want to sit on a bus that undercuts it undercuts our interest now so maybe we should actually do something about that that doesn't mean it did not so what's the what's the price that I'll let's put it bluntly what is the price that white America has to pay for in order to actually change these underlying structures a complete loss of whiteness and it's suite of privileges and I mean that in the most literal if you want to make that not just you know what I made an abstract thing in this country when I did case for reparations and it might be more or less right now but you had a twenty to one wealth gap for every dollar you know that that black people had I'm sorry for every nickel that black people had white white families in this country had a dollar obviously you would have you know you would have to have the loss of some amount of wealth you know for the average white family and in this country massive dismiss of redistribution of wealth but the money is just the beginning of it I mean you would have to come down here and live like we live or we'd all have to be raised up to you know to some sort of equal level Trayvon Martin you know would no longer have to be just an abstraction to you you know it would have to be you know when when Bhagwan said my son you know if I had a sudden you look like Trayvon that had to be true of white people too I didn't have to actually say that and feel that in a way to black people you know feel it beyond that bigger than that I mean if you think about like how status works in this country and maybe period for all humans I don't know the way you define yourself is you know having some sort of you know place you know on a societal ladder is that there's this bottle that you can never sink to and the promise of whiteness in America has always been there our class of people no matter what happens to you no matter how many jobs you lose no matter how many times your wife or your husband leaves you you know no high school dropout whatever you will never be excuse my language a that will never happen to you and I don't think you can under self how much the loss attacked the idea that you actually could be on the bottom that anybody could be on the bottom the chaos that that represents you know for white people in this country I don't think you should understand how big that would be there's a really interesting question its reference to and he's about between the world and me how might your message have been different or not if you were writing to a daughter I don't know I don't know this is why I'm not a public intellectual explain why because I think like I think of like as a public intellectual I could sit here and say well I think you know black women face is different you know sort of suite of challenges and dangers obviously I would be concerned about sexual violence I would be concerned about you know having you know maintaining rights over you know her body and her reproductive rights and I you know I could go on at and live like that but that's and what's that because I wrote between the world and me out of a specific experience I had with Samari Coates and that's what I know that's why I didn't write it to a generic black male I wrote her out of specific experiences that I had I mean it really goes back you know even further day night it goes to you know my friend Prince Jones being killed Prince Jones was an actual person there's a work of journalism within that he was a black male and not then tied in to the fact that the year he was killed my son was like a month old and I was holding him and I was thinking about that in other words it comes from and I don't mean to demean a person that that asks a question but it is not as if you sit up and say huh I'm gonna write a book a letter to a young black man that's not how that book started it came out of specific very real personal tangible experience it wasn't theory it wasn't a abstract familiarity and so having not had that experience with a daughter you don't have one having not had that sort of direct thing you know actually happen it is tough to know it's tough to know it would have came out of whatever those individuals very very specific experience it's like asking me you know like if I ask you Jeff how would you have you know written a story that you've never reported on and you don't know right because you don't know where you know what twists and turns you know might happen you know as you go out and report you know it's tough to know you know in the absence I haven't actually done the work here's a question that's probably from Jack Dorsey will you ever come back to Twitter and our other social Channel hahahaha not actually from somebody else not Jack you know what do you mean no no no never Never Say Never no I'm saying no really yeah this is on the record yeah I'll never I'll never do that again oh why talk about it I think it goes back to what we were talking about before like this idea of first I had fun on Twitter it's very fun it's a lot of fun I really really enjoyed it and I miss it I wish I could beat it I really do but I think part of maturity is understanding what is good for you and what is not good for you and I don't think it was good for me I am NOT making a declaration about Twitter that I think holds true for all other Twitter users I'm talking about me I'm a person that you know sort of slow as I said that likes the nuance of things that likes books and it likes you know the space and the time to think that you know enjoy slowing things down you know a little bit that you know writes things that I think what tries to write things ding Twitter is bad for you or bad for society or both I'm has something to say is bad for society I think it's bad for me and I suspect that it's bad for writers like me in other words writers who do what I do I think it's probably not good for them it's not good like one of the it's not good to be able to have an opinion for someone like me someone like me who already has a voice who already has a platform it's not good for me to be able to just immediately vent whatever opinion I had while I was drinking coffee that morning with my wife that's not good you know what do I know have I thought about it how about batted around back and forth how about read about it but you're a guy you're a guy who when you were look much less famous you were blogging and your method of blogging was to take people inside your mind and say this is what I'm thinking about right now I don't know the answers that that doesn't have any appeal anymore yeah but I had a really controlled check on that and that was my comment section which was a really curated group of people who could push back and forth and go you know all different ways and sometimes I could highlight their opinions and say you know I thought this yesterday but that's why I see person said this you know in Twitter you know you're in a situation where like not only can you not see the person you don't have any established relationship with the person communication I think I think again you know I'm has to make grand pronouncements but I think is really really based on there has to be some shed something you know I think anonymity is probably bad in terms of the things people will say to each other I think that's the first thing and then I think you know even within anonymity that can be you know some sort of relationship the lack of real relationship I think the things you know sometimes people say that they would not say if they were sitting next to each other mm-hm that's telling me whatever I write in my articles you know what I mean I have no problem saying you know to people you know I mean I wrote something about you know president when he was you know in office you know and I had to go into a room and I had no problem talking about no problem repeating it at all you know um a little nervous about it but I could do it you know I could do it you know what I mean um when you start like singing things you know about people call it in a way that you know if you're always sitting next to each other you just went do it you swing through I don't know and I think maybe the platform lends itself to people doing that now maybe that people were better control you know X Y Z you know um somebody like me should be I shouldn't be there I shouldn't be in that room I'm gonna come back to comics just for a final question what are the political pressures of the Marvel Universe presumably it's part of the old-school comic book is partly current how do you synthesize all that and then a very happy thanks like that it's very polite you're welcome that's a great question um I think in this way the comics connect to the nonfiction work because when you're doing comics at a place like Marvel you start with a story that's already in motion it's already ongoing and so in order to write that story much like writing a story for the Atlantic you actually have to do all this historical research there's to be all these other comic books you know at me and you have to base whatever you're writing at least I do other people don't you know they kind of do whatever but for myself I try to base it on what happened before so like any formulation I have of Captain America is usually based on or will be based on what ever happened before you know and the research of that I love that stuff I think it's really really cool you know I love you know being part of you know some sort of you know bigger you know arc and bigger story it's a lot of fun for me so ladies and gentlemen next year at this time it will be Tana Haas and Paul Ryan in this chair I hope you're all back for that time Ahoskie thank you very much thank you very much for everybody [Applause]

Channel: SXSW

Views: 70,576

Rating: 4.6613755 out of 5

Keywords: Sxsw, “South By Southwest”, South, By, West, Southby, Southwest, Fest, Festival, Austin, Texas, Conference, Lineup, Keynote, Speaker, Panel, Interview, Music, Film, Movie, Interactive, EDU, Tech, Technology, Gaming, Video Games, Media, Entertainment, News, Business, Training, Creative, Entrepreneur, Development, ACL, CES, TED, Talk, Comic Con, Red Carpet, Live, Performance, Showcase, Concert, TV, Television, 2018, 2019, Ta-Nehisi Coates, The Power of the Word, Jeffrey Goldberg, The Atlantic, Between The World And Me

Id: n3YCkgRAa-8

Length: 57min 30sec (3450 seconds)

Published: Sun Mar 11 2018

Reddit Comments

[u/TheeHeadAche]

“[Steve Rogers] is someone who believes in the ideal of America. And really, really believes in it. [...] Within that, depending on the reader, is a mix of admirable idealism or disappointing naiveté.”

Yeah.. I’m real excited to see how he does on Cap.

[u/Saito09]

Hella’ interested to see what he does with Cap. Cant wait!