Sunset Boulevard is STILL a Crazy, Meta Middle Finger to Hollywood | CineFix Top 100

at the very beginning and at the very end two of the most incredibly iconic moments in movies full stop poor dope he always wanted a pool so much of this movie is surreal and I feel like when you're stepping into that house you're stepping into another world [Music] the Valentinos you know what we got now there's literally like a new Hollywood director like from the 70s at like every time Marvel drops a movie one of them has to make that pretty much that comment I am big the picture that got small hey everybody and welcome to the cinefix top 100 the show where we don't even know how this list got made but damn it we're going to talk about these movies I'm Clint Gage joined by IGN's director of video programming and a frequent cinefix guy Michael Calabro how you doing yo Clint what's good man uh plenty I'm excited I'm excited for this at least 100 movies from what I understand also IGN senior news editor and uh Mega still a mega fan of Terminator 2. I never waver yeah Alex Steadman never wavering from her Terminator 2 fan so true we'll see how many episodes in a row I can get away with introducing you like that 100. so this being just this is the third episode of Top 100 and we are uh we all really worked hard on our personal top 100 list our producer Dan just kind of did he he listed the first 100 movies he could think of yeah it took him about 17 minutes then he smashed up all of those four lists together to make the cinefix top 100 and he's making us talk about them but one at a time this week we're talking about Sunset Boulevard it's a it's a classic going all the way back to 1950 yeah 73 73 year old movie is that what is that where don't don't date this video people might be watching this years from now yeah exactly 140-ish years ago yeah I think yeah YouTube will still be around by then right um so Sunset Boulevard it likes a 1950 Billy Wilder who by the way Billy Wilder uh we can talk more about him later but I mean this this guy's an Old Timer right I mean so he's he's he did so much great work back in the 40s and 50s um but Sunset Boulevard it's about a struggling screenwriter who crosses paths with a fading Starlet a faded from the silent era of film and the relationship that they sort of form and and the weird story that they begin to tell together uh just goes through the weird weirdest places throughout the course of this film is also kind of to me it strikes me is a film that's sort of about discovering how crazy people are but like gradually yeah you know well you do right off the bat figure out that um glorious Watson and William Holden are the the two leads and like I said Billy Wilder uh again but just to jump straight into the pedigree of this of this film I mean it's it's one of the all-time great films right and I think it is like you said Billy Wilder is a vet and so he knows the way Hollywood is and I feel like that's one of the great things about this movie it it's this is the worst part of Hollywood one of them you know and he gets it yeah so I'll be honest like Sunset Boulevard is one of those movies that I I watched in college and and have not again and revisiting it now like 20 years on I'm like oh my God this movie's incredible literally I have the same exact story I watched it in college 10 years ago and I kind of forgot about it and now I'm like oh God wait no I love this movie like it is just it's so tightly written it's so right about Hollywood it's so well like I really love this movie actually like I didn't think I loved it as much as I do I think this movie is even more relevant now than it was like yeah you know like the older to get the older it gets the more relevant it maintain like it maintains itself there's like so many quotes that we're gonna talk about here that you could just like use today and they just totally fit oh yeah and I mean like I remember I watched this movie every couple of years but the last time I watched it before the reviewing for this it was this was the first movie I've watched when I went moved to LA and I was like all right I'm gonna go with my movie La movie kid yeah it's such an LA move like I just moved to L.A Sunset Boulevard yeah collateral yeah uh heat I literally had a class in college where we watched La movies and we watched like you know like we watch this basically right yeah yeah we just was Sunset Boulevard over and over again yeah um I mean one of the things so I mean the movie again like what it's about it like what I find incredible about this movie and is talking about why it's still relevant like it was made in 1950 and Hollywood is 25 30 years old at the Hollywood proper yeah you know it's it's not that old at this point and in 1950 here's a movie that's about a star who's been sort of chewed up and spit out and it's about a screenwriter that's struggling but still dedicated to the industry and just trying to make it and giving up on like a you know other opportunities that he had so that he can be like I mean the movie opens with him or it doesn't open but like when we first meet him he is like running away from Repo Men yeah they're coming to get his car but he's like you know what this is the game like I'm a writer this is what I'm gonna do and so there's that like that dedication to the idea of Hollywood and stardom and success in the business that is has never gone away like that's still a very relatable thing and here's a movie from 1950 that's already about like oh God this industry sucks oh it holds it not only does it hold up I think it's so relevant now like it's possibly more you you have more struggling writers now than you did then and honestly it hasn't gotten much better towards aging actresses either no no but that was even the great thing about this so so Gloria Swanson who who plays the character Norman Desmond in the movie like the the meta-narrative of this movie is it's the same story yeah right it's more or less the same story like she was a an enormous silent film star like uh and then she was broke around the time that she made this movie like she I mean there was a there were a handful of reasons to that it wasn't necessarily because Hollywood was done with her she was like she started production companies and lost a bunch of money and well all that all that stuff like oh sorry guys no no I was just saying one of the great jokes of the film is when she says like there would it be a Paramount Pictures without me and that is a a line of like Norma Desmond but also Gloria Swanson yeah yeah a lot of work for the studio back in the day yeah and worked with Cecil B Demille back in the day as well who plays himself in this movie it's a fantastic little Edition yeah it's such a uh and there's apparent you know buster shows up and a couple other older older silent film stars Mick cameos and things like that and so it's I'm trying to think of a of a movie that that recently has done the same thing where like people show up I mean I guess you know you see things like traffic Thunder or like an adaptation or movies like that that are about the business in a way that you know real business people show up you know actual filmmakers play themselves in the the unbearable weight of massive Talent wasn't about so much no but it did have you know yeah that's that's him because that's got that extra layer of meta like what's going on with Nick Cage Swimming with Sharks too which is like where Spacey plays that real terrible Studio executive yeah yeah but it's so at the time though everybody loved it though because it won a bunch of Academy Awards Now it only won two it only won two but it wins I have it written down here uh it won I'm sorry it was picture it won three it was not picture it was nothing it was screenplay it was a long story The Long storied history of the academy giving the best movie The Screen screenplay yeah uh art Direction and score okay it was nominated for not for uh Gloria Swanson nope it was nominated for picture director all the actors yeah like all the acting knobs were all nominated editing and uh and editing I don't know I have editing questions because it was so nominated yeah um I mean that's a lot of nominations that's a bunch of nominations should have won geez yeah she makes that movie I mean come on yeah William Holden was he William Holden is interesting because my first experience with William Holden uh was the Wild Bunch and so seeing him in like these sort of younger romantic roles it just never added up to me well that's the first time I ever saw William Holden in anything like he's he's killing 65 people in the Wild Bunch yeah I always get him confused with Joseph cotton yeah which is like another actor at that time but like yeah I well in future episodes we'll get into my uh disdain for the Western genre so I don't have no okay so see if they ended it like that'll have to be a real Quirk of the algorithm to get to get a Western on there yeah torpedo on them all so right yeah um might as well get your Holden uh wild bunny yeah this is the only time you'll be able to talk about the Wild Bunch yeah but I totally buy him as a romantic lead though like he I mean he has like two romantic interests in this movie and I think yeah yeah they're just every woman that appears in the movie falls in love there's like a great shot of him like coming out of the pool with his shirt off looking like he's like such like a star no Starlet he's a total him he's a total him he's a hippo yeah yeah he's he's a not talented writer that's the funny thing too is like there's no as good as his mind thinks exactly exactly that is that is a really great thing about the the film too this is this film sort of famously opens on William Holden dead in a pool and then William Holden proceeds to narrate the rest of the movie which is like a really great film Noir Trope that I enjoy is giving an excuse for the vo like he did it in a Wilder did in Double Indemnity too like that movie opens with a guy like gut shot wandering in and like picking up his tape recorder too talking to Keys yeah exactly and then you have like the added strategy of him not being able to tell like the best story he's ever told until he's dead yeah yeah but he's a bad writer yeah he's not a good writer and everything that every piece of evidence we we see of William Holden or the writer or I'm sorry what's his character's name so I can get this right uh Joe Joe Gillis Joe Gillis so every every Joe Gillis screenplay that gets talked about or shown or any of it is bad and nobody likes it and that to me is hilarious there's no great story lurking within Joe Gillis he's just a guy desperate to make it in the business and he's probably not going to hack it ah maybe maybe maybe the story he was working on with uh with um yes what's her name so that's another one of the subplots is he he's in there he's desperate he's pitching a Paramount executive yeah on some idea that he has a baseball a bad batter up right yeah yeah it's a it's a it's a baseball movie and then uh uh the executives uh one of the script readers is a woman that works there um uh what's her name Betty Betty Shaffer Betty Shaffer yeah Betty yeah that's the exact name is it not no Betty Draper oh okay close enough I'm sure there was a Betty Shaffer on set somewhere yeah uh but Betty walks in and starts and starts tearing apart the guy's script without knowing that he he was the one that wrote it and it's it's just really funny and she doesn't back down at all like she's just like no yeah one of the better exchanges than that where she's just like I just think your pictures should say a little something things just like oh one of the message kids yeah just a story won't do yeah your story means nothing sir that's a problem I know and I love how like accurate those Crypt notes are too like like right yeah so good yeah no even the way that she was dressing down his bad script was accurate to the way people tear apart bad scripts yeah but it was great another thing about him being a bad writer though it really shows where Norma's priorities are because she doesn't know anything about his talent or credentials she just kind of thinks he's hot I feel like right oh this is my little boy quite now yeah and I mean can we talk about how they how they join forces one of my favorites it's it's so so truly bizarre first of all he's on the run from Repo Men like he just happens to be here yeah attire pops and he like hides in her garage and it's like it's like he's driving into like the you know Secret Garden or something like yeah like it's a completely separate world that he sort of stumbles into and he parks in her garage uh and then and then he gets mistaken for a a Undertaker monkey Undertaker yeah because because her previous companion a monkey has just passed and you know yeah and yeah it's a great scene because right off the bat he knows she's Bonkers we know she's bonkers there's something great about it though because like we started this conversation about Sunset Boulevard with like this is one of the greatest movies of all time right yeah and yeah and then a few minutes later we're like and then he gets mistaken for a monkey Undertaker yeah which and the fact that it works and it and and it all tracks is real question you think there was like film textbooks written at this time gosh I don't know no I really don't think so like they would probably be coming in like the next decade right because like like a lot of my notes here are just like how I can't think of a better term to describe like a lot of the camera blocking and coverage and stuff like that than like textbook right and like that monkey funeral is probably like one of the most textbook examples of like how incredible it is to cover it because like they a mistake them as the monkey Undertaker right and then like she convinces him to stay so he's actually staying in the room above the attic and you watch the monkey burial from the perspective of Joe Gillis yeah so it's just like looking down on them at night as like Max her Butler who's her former husband and we'll get it yeah we'll get into that later uh like have him just like uh Paul bearing this child's casket that actually is holding a monkey as they like bury it in the backyard and it's it's a great shot it's so surreal yeah yeah I mean so much of this movie is surreal and I feel like yeah like you said like when you're stepping into that house you're stepping into another world yeah right I mean the the surrealism of it is is another funny I mean knowing that Billy Wilder came up doing some silent work himself in Gloria Swanson her story is is sort of represented on screen also and then to treat it that with that touch of surrealism and like that just that sort of just naked bonkersness right like I don't know how else to describe it like they're like I feel like at every turn every time we learn something new about uh Norma Desmond Gloria Swanson's character it's it's just crazier than the last thing yeah this is as like zero to a hundred as the haze code could possibly go right yeah but you also like it also gives you some insight into max who yeah I'll we'll discuss more later but like the fact that he's just on board like not questioning this like yeah you're the monkey yeah yeah but like Max is like the biggest ride or die in the world like and I think like right off the bat you get like oh he's gonna indulge every one of This Woman's weirdest impulses at whatever cost yeah including having a monkey funeral you're not the properly dressed for the occasion what's the occasion have him come up Max up the stairs suppose you listen to me for just a minute Madam is waiting for me okay [Music] in terms of other movies from this era do you did you guys put any more on your list do you how many how many 40s and 50s movies do you guys have on I don't think I have anything I got a couple you got a couple I have I have a few I have a few film Wars and nothing else by Billy Wilder oh I got which I I got double and dummy yeah okay well we'll maybe get to talk about that down the road depending on how high yeah probably not considering did you have it up 15th like Independence Day no no I my list is pretty recent like I you know mostly within the past 30 years I would say I'm like yes yeah okay well I mean in terms of like how like Prestige or popcorn this movie was obviously now we're looking back on it you know it nominated for a bunch of Academy Awards one a couple and then you know 70 years on we're still talking about it and it's still a great movie um but like it it did some business like it it was the budget at the time was 1.75 million dollars to make and it made five it brought five yeah back which I adjusted for inflation is a 22 million dollars to make 64. like that'll get you a sequel yeah that won't give you a sequel yeah or if you're John Wick yeah masterpiece yeah without question yeah yeah okay like there's just so little that's wrong with this movie like it's like this it's so tightly written it's so well acted it's so well shot like I don't know yeah I mean it breaks all the rules too right like yeah so like this did this did vo so well that then vo was like a subsequent Trope that you know uh Charlie Kaufman has to like rail on when he also does vo in adaptation yeah like you think about like VR movies that really stand out it's like this Fight Club taxi driver what else what else we got that does it I mean every film Noir yeah but none of them do it this well no well and none of them like established the fact that your vo is is from a dead guy yeah yeah like I think I think there was uh you know um It's a Wonderful Life had a little bit from an angel or something but yeah but not really like This was um yeah I mean establishing from the very first scene of the movie that a dead guy is going to be talking to you talking you through the rest of this film you see the body of a young man was found floating in the pool of her mansion with two shots in his back and one in his stomach nobody important really just a movie writer with a couple of B pictures to his credit report dope he always wanted a pool do we want to get into some of these best vo lines now or do we want to get into them we were talking about the violence let's talk uh um yeah I mean listen let's let's call this the brilliant moment section here so really brilliant moments we're talking about these are these are the moments in this movie that really shines it's the vo for you oh yeah I mean Norma Desmond has her own lines but like as far as like a brilliant moment is concerned it is definitely the VL all like you gotta remember right this is written by Billy Wilder German guy English is his second language and he still wrote vo like this tight yeah for example like when he's talking about how he hit his car from the repo man right he's like I always kept it across the street the parking lot behind Rudy's shoeshine parlor Rudy never asked any questions about your finances he'd just look at your heels and know the score like the shoe shine guy yeah has the total sizing because and I mean I'm not gonna lie like I'm a huge like I like noirs right and I like Naked Gun and like if you've ever watched police squad like there is the character who's the shoe shine guy that that like that like uh Leslie Nielsen goes to to get info on like the cases and it's just like I always just think of that yeah yeah no it's I mean it's great too because and and to your point about um about Billy Wilder and English being a second language like the idea for him to love like a clever turn of phrase there is no better vehicle for quips like that than film Noir vo yeah oh yeah and stuff like it's it was like his Kink I would imagine like then I talked to a couple of Yes Men at Metro they told me no [Music] and how like how on the nose is that for to say like like this guy I'm down and out I got I got nothing yes men are telling me no yeah you know like that's it's incredible even the way he describes the house right like he was just like here was a tennis court or rather the ghost of a tennis yeah so dramatic he's so obvious he's a writer trying to be a really good writer yeah it's in character yeah it's like that's how his the vo is in keeping with a bad writer's character yeah exactly yeah the thing is we just talked about its death but my one of my favorite scenes is that opening scene and one of my favorite lines is that I'm still big the pictures got smaller like it's so like it's so establishing of her character like she thinks so highly of herself she's so delusional and I love that about her but like no I love that lion yeah yeah well and it's it's interesting though too because those those two characters are you know that line in particular that I am big but the pictures got small like that's the same energy that that Joe Gillis has yeah about like no I'm a writer and I'm gonna I'm gonna be a writer and that's that's all there is to it regardless of how I can't pay my my you know my bills or my rent or the refillment or knocking up a majority and like so for them to have that much in common and also be for him to be so disdainful of her for it is is another part of the yeah is another part of this industry that it's so fascinating in 1950 that they were already very aware of just like there is a stupid double standard here of people who like looking at people that are judged to be past their Prime yeah it's like the people that are still in it that is like Joe Gillis is not Successful by any metric whatsoever but this lady who was enormously successful and is just old now yeah like that's pathetic that's why I always get like a little defensive of her too because oh yeah she's not a good person by any means but like what the industry has done to her is actually really crappy and the way that Joe initially treats her is actually really crappy and it's like you know I don't feel that bad for him by the end of the movie no I don't think you're supposed to yeah no no it no it's you're not supposed to feel bad for anybody well that's the thing everyone's pretty despicable except for uh the mail for Betty maybe yeah Betty's pretty yeah he just has he's gonna go home that night and feel bad about it and then come back and not not remember but the spirit her feelings like yeah honestly this is this is going to be my brilliant moment it's that whole sequence where she actually goes to the lot right and like so we don't know why they've been called back there we just know that like Paramount's been calling and oh they want me back and they want my picture and yeah but really they just accidentally saw the old car that she was driving and they want to use the car as a prop car in one of their movies and that's why they've been trying to get a hold of her and you feel so bad for her and and Max Butler ex-husband we'll and we'll get there have we gotten there yet no we haven't explained that yet okay that's fine we'll hold that for later but um and Max has kept that from her Max is allowing her to believe that they want it back he knows full well what they're what they're looking for and so now that we know that watching Norma Desmond walk into that situation just full of confidence and and feeling so good about herself to go back onto the lot and to meet Cecil B Demille like it's so tragic and it's so horrible and the this very specific brilliant moment is there's the gaffer up in the rafters that recognizes her swings the spotlight down yeah and that's cool to begin with and everybody kind of swarms around they're like oh Norma Desmond wow hey it's great to meet you and she's got her adoring fans or whatever but the real brilliant moment is when Cecil B Demille is walking back over to her and the the crowd kind of parts and there's a light the light is still hitting her and it is the most unnatural like even for a stage like that light does not exist in like on the stage except to shine onto her for this specific shot like the texture of the light is is different than anything that's pointed at the set so it's not like a like a practical thing that was actually there um but they and when Cecil B Demille walks over and he's like get that light out of here or put that light back where it belongs I think is what he said yeah which and and that line right there is a beautiful shot like tracking up towards her with this incredible light get that light back where it belongs will be DeMille saying that who's honestly one of the more sympathetic people in the whole movie I think so yeah and he's still like nope it's not happening yeah and the funny thing is like it obviously there's a mirror to that scene and the end of the movie and I like that both of those things are kind of set up by Max lying to her to spare her feelings yeah so max did her and which is really doing her disservice because she's humiliated on the on the lot and then I have less of a problem with it at the end because at that point you know she's it yeah she's already going to jail but yeah yeah no but it's such an interesting Joe Gillis yeah sure yeah but um no it's such an interesting mirror that I really appreciate about that scene I just want to talk about some of the blocking of the shots like yeah you know I'm glad you bring that up too because like this is an era of filmmaking where there were there weren't a lot of tricks to be had except for how you stage yeah because it's like the thing we study now right so like they got so much mileage out of that staircase in their foyer right so like the opening like just like when she comes in right so it's just like she's standing at the top of the stairs she's like so you're a writer and it's looking up at her from Joe gillis's perspective like where she has all the visual screen power and stuff like that right and then he's like yeah I've like written a couple of pictures and then she comes down to meet him at eye level to be like well will you read my script and it's like that kind of power play they do the same thing later on in the movie where uh it's the New Year's Eve party and there's a news party the New Year's Eve party at two where she she rents a four-piece Orchestra like a four-piece String Band and just for the two of them yeah they're like tangoing in that like black void of emptiness and you're just like staring down at them by themselves it's such an uncomfortable scene so good it's like yeah that like that house is such like a like a fun house it's wild I I mean thinking about this movie like a horror film yeah is kind of an interesting exercise too because like there's I feel like this is uh I mean there are shades of this kind of thing in in I mean Little Indie things like creep you know these movies where like somebody shows up uh and meets somebody new and they go into this person's world and then they're like oh God I'm trapped here like there's a version of this movie that you know obviously it ends with him getting killed yeah so like it it's you know but that fun house kind of like you keep getting to another layer of like the monkey Undertaker was weird enough yeah and then like now you threw a uh a New Year's Eve party and he walks downstairs he's like when's everybody else getting here and he's like oh nobody's coming it's just us it's like Jesus which wasn't even a huge shock to me when I was watching it but it's still like oh God no yeah it's so it's so painful yeah um but no I I kind of thought of it as partially a horror movie like and you have things like her saying like I got a gun and you're like oh that's gonna that's not going away like that's gonna come back like yeah do you know what the most like now having lived in Los Angeles for a couple of years you know what I think is like the most La thing about that movie now but the scene where they go shopping clothes shopping and uh the guy's like well we got like this fancy kind of overcoat and we got the camel like and the camel hair and he's just like just get things I think the line was actually because I made a know that too that was one of my favorite moments of like that was the kind of there's a couple of moments in the in the movie that are clearly like they're cut in a way that what's that that's a p Kimball moment Yeah well yeah yeah but they're also cut in a way that's like holding for Laughs in a way that doesn't match the rest of the movie right here are some camels here but I'd like it just to feel this it's by kuna of course it's a little more expensive the camel's hair will do well as long as the lady's paying for it why not take the vacuum [Music] we're talking about weird right like it's time to get to Max we should probably get to Max honestly this is another brilliant moment yeah because this reveal is really really incredible we so max we've been referring to him as the butler ex-husband this whole time uh but it's you know he's the butler for like two-thirds he's the butler for most of the movie and then at some point it starts to look real bad for Norma Desmond and he gets so concerned about he spent the whole movie like keeping things from her and letting her believe that she's still a big star and everybody still wants to work with her and then all of a sudden things are starting to look bad for her and so he actually he's worried enough about her that he opens up to Joe and admits that he was he used to be a director and he directed Norman Desmond then they got married and now he's he's her Butler and and now they're also divorced and they're also still there and he's still there and there's been other husbands yeah she's had three husbands this boy toy so it's Max Max the director Max the disgrace director after Norma Desmond got through with him I think yeah but then they got married then they got divorced then other then he's her Butler then there are like three other husbands and now there's Joe who's just sleeping in his old bed I was just gonna say can we talk about how that all goes down right I'm pretty sure that all happens in the same scene and that is like it's the scene where he gets to like move into the house and he's just like why isn't there any door handles and it's like oh cause she's suicide because she's suicidal and in the same scene he's like yeah this is a nice bedroom and she's just like yeah no he didn't say that he was like it used to be like the husband's business oh that's right yeah yeah and then and then like later on in that scene it's just like well I was also her husband and talking about like but when they do that though that like that's the moment that's great when they do that it's like there's a there's a sting in the score and there's I think there's a camera move like I literally gasped I watched that like like I said I watched it in college and me and six other students were literally like like it was like such a big reveal it was huge but like the thing is like Max is such an interesting character and they never really go back to it after that reveal like okay so you understand why he cares so much about her but I'm still really curious as to like why he's okay with watching her get married two other times and watching these men in and out from driving him around and sleeping in his whole bed and like getting his clothes from his apartment like what it like Max has as many screws loose as Norma does like because I don't think anything was actively done to Max right right like his normal stuff happened to Norma Norma as a character had been put through the ringer right like she'd been sort of chewed up and spit out by the system in the hall in Hollywood and everything like that Max just kind of watched it happen I mean he kind of was like chewed up and spit out by Hollywood um as like a disgrace director but still like not yeah she was do you know who the person that didn't screw over Norma Desmond Desmond was her financial planner yes which is still really rich yeah like there's like that scene where they're talking about like why like oh whatever you want we can buy it yeah I got oil fields and Baker field they just pumped and pumped and pumped so we could spend it spending spend it's like yeah maybe Max is sticking around because like you know the gravy train well that's like he explains it at the end he's like well I got a pretty good setup and I'm like yeah like it's the same reason Joe is sticking around like he's sort of like begrudgingly realizes he's like well I'm a kept man now yep um but yeah that is that is the one part of the meta narrative between Norma Desmond and glorious doesn't line up like like Gloria Swanson got got some bad hoes and some bad business deals I think um but uh but yeah the fact that she's because I kept waiting for that for that shoe to drop right I kept waiting for the money to run out or like you know so that's never even hinted at no no because I guess it wasn't yes but like but again like like looping all of that in together into this movie like adding it all up into a movie about how screwed up the business is like here's a person that you know there would be no Paramount Pictures without me and she's incredibly wealthy um and nobody wants anything to do with her and it's it's just so bizarre and don't forget like like The Meta narrative too right of like how like the system's gonna profit off of her downfall too right it's like tab light all those like all those cameras are there like she's ready for her final close-up because that's gonna be on freaking newsreels it's gonna be on that like the tabloids like and that was another one of the cameos too it was like a real life gossip columnist played yeah yeah what's her name she was on the phone there at the end me like hold the hold the print I've got a story like that kind of thing yeah but it's like and the funny thing is that we talked a little bit about this with like the way that Joe immediately dismissed her it's like well she actually made a name for herself in Hollywood like you have it my guy like you barely are getting by and she was a big star and you know like she basically was just thrown out because she got she aged yeah like they're both done yeah business is done with both of them and neither of them want to believe it yeah um but like somehow Joe thinks he's like above it somehow I guess I mean there's not I'm not saying that doesn't exist in Hollywood there's still a lot of that in Hollywood yeah for sure no and that's why the movie like I you could take the same script and swap out like you know we were talking about you swap out the what happened to the Fairbanks and with what happened to Scorsese and you can make the same thing right now like it's a conversation that still happens oh I got the quote right here you want me to read it yeah the script pulled up they took the idols and smashed them the Fairbanks is the Gilberts the Valentinos and what do we got now some nobodies there is literally they're like there is literally like a new Hollywood director like from the 70s at like every time Marvel drops a movie one of them has to make that pretty much that kind of yeah it's it's yeah it's De Palma's turn next I think because yeah Spielberg Scorsese Coppola they've all had their turn yeah I'm like we got a bunch of nobodies today like yeah but it's yeah um I mean I've already seen people try to argue that with like like using Tarantino it's like well we still have Tarantino yeah he's he's still around yeah he's not even old yet make another move whatever happened to David Fincher yeah well I I don't want to speak it into existence because I don't want it to happen I'm almost surprised someone hasn't done a modern Sunset did they really they tried it in like the 60s uh no not the 60s I'm sorry the 70s there's another IMDb credit I'm surprised there isn't one from like it's never not been relevant right like I mean now it would be you know maybe it's Ingrid goes west or something now but like um but it just holds up so much especially when it comes to the business and it's kind of sad how much the business doesn't change as much as it does so any other any other brilliant moments we need to talk about I mean like I in terms of pure iconic moments there's opening in the pool yeah that we talked about which is just a really really great like here's your main character and he's dead full time we haven't talked enough about the final scene like moments and movies this this movie is bookended by two of the I think most famous like and most you know imitated that staircase putting in some putting in some work and the way that everyone around her just buys into it you said one for best art direction right yes okay because like the weird Vine shape of the banister on the like the the staircase didn't look like a staircase I'd seen before yeah you know what the author the thing I noticed this time when I was watching it is like when she's walking down the stairs everybody stands still like everybody is like trying to hold for like a long exposure photograph except her like they don't move like even though like this crazy woman who just shot this dude in her pool right she's like walking down and all these people are just like yeah like like standing for a painting yeah as like she like flows past them but you also believe it because you can you imagine if you were there you would absolutely the only guy that's moving a lot is the guy that has like the lights that's just like yeah yeah but talking about how surreal this movie is I mean that is the most surreal moment in it and the fact that Max is sitting there like directing yeah like he's talking to the cameraman and he's telling me like all right we're ready for you Norma and um in a weird way it's like a happy ending like it's not but it's like you know Norm I got what she wanted max out what he wanted I mean you think about like what what other possible ending is there for there's the ending where they go and make her movie and she's a star again right but that's no I don't want that no you're right you know like I mean but in terms of in terms of other like okay outcomes I guess we're all okay like Joe gets put out of his memory misery and uh and Norma gets to think that she's a star again and already doesn't get screwed which is a character we have already we've not talked about it I mean let's let's finish up with the in scene there because like this is I mean it's up there with the most iconic lines in all Hollywood uh I'm I'm ready for my close-up Mr DeMille like that is I mean that that's the line I mean like I knew that line before I had ever heard of Sunset Boulevard it's one of those things yeah yeah and just like her so delusional and she's so like at that point she's gone yeah like she there's no reasoning with her it's just so well done well in the the eye like she's still dying she's still doing the silent movie actress yeah performance like top to bottom that's that's one thing there's a there's a a moment watching this movie where you start to think like man Gloria Swanson is really playing to the back row here but then at some point you're like oh wait no no that's Norman Desmond playing to the back row oh yeah and it's an incredible performance there's a really not to uh distract from this scene but there's just before this scene when she's going to basically beg for Joel to stay she like looks in the mirror and like goes into silent film star mode where like eyes get really big and it's also terrifying like that's one of the horror movies yeah yeah that's really what it is it's like no at that point she's she's gone like it's so good you see this is my life it always will be there's nothing else just us cameras and those wonderful people out there in the dark foreign [Music] so I mean let's talk about I mean it's one of the best we're sitting here agreeing that it's one of the best uh but like what of the movie lists would it show up on let's let's talk about movie list for a second so what movies uh has it shown up on to be honest and this is um to my uh I'll I'll cop to I'm a little ashamed of this uh as far as I can tell it's only been mentioned a few times and never an outright pick on a movie on cinefix movie granted we haven't always had been as fastidious with the metadata uh as as we have been in the past couple of years so there might be some older ones Where It's featured but it for sure um is featured in our 100 most iconic lines of all time oh yeah it has to be ready for my close-up it should also be on another one that was recently published that I'm I'm I'm ashamed it's not in go for it you tell me that this isn't one of the best screenplays ever written I mean it needs to be if it's got one of the 100 most iconic lines somebody had to write it yeah yeah so I would say that it's such like it's such a good screenplay I'd have to go back and re-watch it to see I would wait I I I just want to believe that we mentioned it but we might not have we all make mistakes I don't know I I this is me apologizing I'm sorry I think I think my my list the list of my lists that I think that this would be on yeah are screenplays Hollywood movies yep noirs cinematography and Femme fatals okay yeah I will take one of those one at a time I think because I I had a movies about movies kind of kind of list yeah that way you put it up there you know with things like the player um you know adaptation uh movies about the the process the other the other thing that sort of tangentially related to that is movies where this is hyper specific but like movies where creative people get destroyed by their art form that is very high that is that is incredibly other like examples well yeah I mean it's things like like Black Swan and like a wrestler Jinx there you go here if you say the wrestler at the same time you gotta take a drink [Laughter] but yeah I have movies about movies and movies about like creative people being destroyed I think are like a weird oh we Barton thing yeah there you go uh that's a weird Niche that uh as it turns out I really enjoy I really like yeah and like the thing about like the movie about movies list like I've that list like this this really has a lot of teeth like it does not come across as liking the movie business at all and I like that like I like that it just bites and doesn't let go yeah which is again like the fact that they made it they were doing that already in 1950 yeah like we're not special like the the Senate is like cynical takedowns of the industry that happen you know that that we get it's like there's nothing new there like we've been doing it since Sunset Boulevard probably before I just you know most consequential monkeys yeah right right I don't think that monkey was the inciting incident but it was close I mean listen if if that monkey didn't die on that day Joe Gillis might still be alive living in Dayton Ohio yeah as a failure as a failure failed screenwriter and and moderately not a failure of a desk jockey newspaper man or whatever living failure instead of a dead himbo yeah but we should also talk about the production design too because like you said like that house is a fun house and that movie doesn't work without being in a fun house by the way a house is owned by Jade oh Getty's ex-wife in real life okay yeah Paramount Paramount rented it and we're not to the things you didn't know section just yet so okay all right that location manager though it's like a great location what was it what was the next one on your list there's movies about movies no Hollywood noirs yeah yeah absolutely right Phil Noor as a genre I I think this this fits into the oh is there a subsect of film Noir that this that this is the best example of or just no because film Noir is Broad right like I don't know I mean like it's black and white and it's got crime in it I mean yeah you could do like there's the detective yeah there's a hard-boiled attack the hard-boiled I just don't think that there's enough there's not ten of them yeah there's not something there's not enough Sunset Boulevard like movies where you could be like yeah yeah there's no honorable mentions in this category it's just Sunset Boulevard you're right right [Laughter] like I'm just like yeah what about femme fatale where does she Stack Up in uh uh against what Sharon Stone from basic instance I mean any you know she I she would be high in the ranking of just the film Noir I imagine film Noir era film vitals would have to be probably two slots in a movie list because there's so many good ones yeah for sure um trying to I mean while I just keep going back to Double Indemnity because we're talking about Billy Wilder but uh that's a great one um I mean I mean the erotic Thriller genre that I feel like everybody's speaking speaking of 90s genres that you know had a anytime somebody there's any conversation about like you know what genre should come back everybody somebody's gonna say erotically I don't know how erotic it is to call it a neurotic Thriller though because they have like no chemistry Joe no no I was talking about Basics yeah yeah oh yeah yeah you know what why don't why don't they bring back Sunset Boulevard as an erotic Thriller that would be starring Nicolas Cage as like him as like a May December erotic Thriller dude you you get you you know what I've had I had the idea just now we're gonna I'm gonna save it for the Nicholas Cage section I got a good I got a good pitch here there's not that many characters in this movie yeah but there is only one okay I've I think I can guess what it is okay yeah I it's yeah I got one too yeah but we'll we'll say that before um the best video what what would beat it Taxi Driver oh yeah but I guess yeah yeah they're similar in that the vo is is an offshoot of the character yeah you know like it's it's not Exposition it's just sort of like pondering sometimes that way should rain would just wash all this stuff I don't know this Taxi Driver makes me more uncomfortable every time I talk about it yeah it's not the right time you know it's not not the time for Texas right now but uh this is the vo in this movie is Amazing by the way just one thing I wanted to say like I watched the um the making of bonus features for this movie which there is no making on footage I don't think anybody was thinking of that stuff back I'm like yeah uh a guy who is friends with Billy Wilder who is featured on this documentary was just like Bill he said that Billy Wilder liked right liked vo for two reasons one he would one was it was an efficient mode of exposition so it was just like I could get a lot of exposition out there fast and the second was he saw himself as a satirist and vo allowed him to comment on the action and like so it isn't it it's an authorial voice to him then it's him talking not Joe exactly okay he just put his hand up the butt of joke yeah just started yeah flapping his mouth do we want to talk cinematography is this like one of the better looking black and white photograph movies of all time I don't know that it's it's specifically a great yeah I don't think of it as like a cinematography movie no you know that's well I mean there's yeah there there's the uh you know the idea of like you do a good job if nobody notices yeah kind of thing which like yeah it's it's so it was very obviously skillfully done but in terms of like there's really some some good stuff at play here I mean that one moment that I mentioned earlier with the the stage light shining that way yeah gorgeous yeah also when he gets shot right like yeah it's all dark but the pool is lit so it's like the pool is like the bright thing in the frame when he falls into it and it's like the glowing water as it like splashes up well that's the thing you have to you have to see that first that has to register because now you're thinking like oh here we're getting back to the beginning yeah and let's not forget how they photograph that opening shot where you're looking up at Joe Joe Gillis yeah on the water right they had to lay a mirror at the bottom of the pool and then they shot the camera down at the mirror to get the reflection of the mirror and that's how they got that shot which is oh wow I was assuming that they just had a tank nope nope they didn't have tanks back then nope no they invented the tank in 1960s 1960 yeah 13 years after this movie they invented the tank sometimes as we watched she'd clutch my arm on my hand forgetting she was my employer just becoming a fan excited about that actress up there on the screen I guess I don't have to tell you who the star was they were always her pictures that's all she wanted to see let's get your transition straight and things you didn't know this is some some trivia some behind the scenes stuff that hopefully uh you know will make you make you think about the movie in a different way I only got one thing you got one thing yeah it was one thing so you remember when they're um there's a scene where and you know we think this is like really common but they're at they're at uh enormous house watching a movie which you know growing up in the Advent of TV we think oh yeah everybody gets to sit home and watch a movie anytime they even like later in the movie when he brings Betty oh yeah and it's like it's like this yeah it's like that size yeah but she they roll up the painting yeah you know so you can it's a great setup it's really cool yeah I wouldn't mind doing it so the movie that they watch is actually a glorious Swanson silent era movie right that is directed by Eric Von stroheim who plays Max yup that's brilliant well he did say that all they would do is watch her movies yeah yeah but the fact that like like it was so methodically cast that it's an old glorious Johnson movie and Max is so is actually directing that movie yeah that's that's incredible but and so sticking with some of that the casting choices and like the meta-narrative of it all uh Eric Von stroheim uh apparently didn't want to take the role but he needed the money and so he took it he took it for the money which is also hilarious like thinking about the meta-narrative of Gloria Swanson playing Norma Desmond where Eric wants you know where he's taking the role that he doesn't really want but he wants the money like the real world parallels that everybody has with their I mean except for William Holden I guess he was a he was a star yeah at this point but like you know the the real world parallels that they have with their characters is is remarkable and to Gloria Swanson's credit another thing you may not know is the May West there were a handful of other people that they went out to first before Gloria Swanson Mae West was one of them and a handful of them turned the role down because they didn't want to play Fading Starlet because they were still like no I'm not gonna play like Mae West was a I'm not past my Prime May West is she she thought of herself as a sex symbol like until she died I think but yeah um how old was she even when I don't know but good for her you know this is great it's um but the idea that Gloria Swanson was the one that was like no I'll do it yeah I'll play I'll play Down and Down and Out I'm surprised that wasn't written for her like it is it seems like yeah right like yeah yeah but it was yeah nobody wanted to nobody wanted to do it yeah why and yeah just Gloria Swanson being like what have I got to lose Arlen Brando also in the running for Joe Gillis yep I believe that wow he's gonna be really young for that he when was uh streetcars yeah yeah a couple years later you know this is like David Lynch's second favorite film of all time I believe it yeah I definitely 100 yeah I'm surprised it's not his first yeah eight and a half is his first oh okay allegedly hello allegedly depends on when you ask it if you google David Lynch's favorite films I've I've clicked on a couple articles uh eight and a half is above it but like Sunset the second I mean that makes sense so much of it makes sense there's so much Sunset Boulevard and blue velvet yeah well in like Mulholland Drive too right I mean there's any anything in and around you know industry adjacent yeah that has happened since 1950 like there's gotta be hints of Sunset Boulevard in there there's another we talk about how iconic the opening you know scene is originally there's an original version different version where Joe's corpse uh is arrives at the morgue surrounded by other corpses uh but audiences the way that it was played audiences uh thought it was it was too funny and so they swapped it to him just floating in the pool yeah like that's it's so it's it's it's hilarious to me that scenes that work out that are just like burned into our collective subconscious yeah you know what else is cool about this movie it wasn't even the first it wasn't even plan a yeah yeah right you know what else is cool about this movie too the title card where it's like and like the camera just like Fades down and it's just like Sunset Boulevard written on the curb with it like yeah that is a good one yeah like that's hard yeah and then it's just like and the car motivates like a whip pan yeah yeah right yeah and then all of like the opening credits are just on the street yeah yeah rules it's cool when it came to uh here's here's one this is uh this is from from Dan who told Tayo to to to compile these for us yeah uh Dan gets zero credit for this no no this is I did nothing this is tayo's work uh but when it came time to shoot Norma's visit to Paramount von Eric Von stroheim was embarrassed to admit that he didn't know how to drive oh couldn't drive the car um so the the stunt car the the Zara frashini like which is a car that I don't way to pronounce that bro yeah is it wrong it sounds right to me okay great um they had to pull it behind a uh a tow truck and he only steered it just a little bit into the Paramount lot which is funny because now that's how that's just how they shoot right yeah like with the and he cried he actually crashed into the gate I've just been whispered really Whispering what's that what's that damn crashing the gate no that was Tayo again Tayo wants to make sure I get his good work right [Music] hey she missed the move open the gate Mr demillo shooting you got an apartment no appointment necessary I'm bringing Norma Desmond Norma who okay well let's move on to the to the MVP who's who's the person that makes this movie and with somebody different it's not the same movie Gloria Swanson yep without question easy like and like yeah like you know Holden's great she's she was name checked for this for the rest of her life yeah yeah she died in the 80s and like we've been talking about this like whole meta narrative just adds to it too like now it's easy Gloria I'm so mad that she didn't win the Oscar yeah now that I know that it's unfortunate that it's not like not Peak Wilder because he only got screenplay for this but yeah even then even if this was like even if Wilder took home the statue again for this this is still Gloria Swanson's movie right yeah I think Wilder did so much other good work yeah that like it can kind of not that it Blends together with his other work but like you can make an argument for any one of his movies more or less being his his best work yeah but like even he can't like be held responsible for that kind of magnetism that she brings to this right and that's what I'm saying like like anyone else like it would still be a great movie with someone else but I don't think it would be like a capital M Masterpiece without Gloria like I don't really don't think it would be yeah and she the I I I also picked glorious Watson this is kind of an easy one it's but like the idea that uh she's so committed to the conceit of it yeah so on board with what the movie's about yeah um the yeah I don't think if had May West said yes and she'd been kind of hedging her bets about committing to the role like then it would have been a different thing and it wouldn't have worked half as well and I like you said earlier you can tell when she's playing into that like silent film star thing when she's like over emoting and like her eyes are big and she's using her hands so much it's like it's there's also another really cool thing in her performance where there she gets vulnerable so like there's the there's the the moments where she is like the wall is up and she's the star and she's unapproachable and then there's the moment where she's begging Joe not to leave her yeah yeah so and they're new there's wildly different energies well and I find it so interesting at the end when um Betty comes to the house and Joe basically shows at the door and like you know no for Norma it's like confirmation that he's essentially been like kind of cheating on her but she doesn't even care she she's like thank you Joe thank you for like choosing me and like it's like and like you just feel like again she's not a good person but you just feel stuff like she's it's it's it's such a tragic thing like every and the way that they this isn't going back to talking about the screenplay and maybe a vote for Billy Wilder in in writing this right co-wrote it with two other guys I think but um the uh whose names don't matter um the the idea that they won Academy Awards they all want Academy yeah they all got the statue um the way that the information is parsed out and so like the dramatic irony of like us knowing things that Norma doesn't or that she's not aware of and just watching her repeatedly walk into these really tragic like she's set up to fail at every turn she's set up to be embarrassed and it's like oh God I don't want to watch it again um and so the way that the screenplay is structured in that sense is is really incredible yeah so but it's crazy when you find out yeah like like you know like she doesn't realize that DeMille wants nothing to do with her but like she does realize that you know Joe is seeing someone else like because that's where her focus is right now her focus is on Joe and she's obsessed with him so she's gonna notice everything he does good looking guy good looking dude yeah yeah it looks looks great getting out of a pool yeah um yeah no I think we all agree Gloria Swanson congratulations Gloria belated even if you didn't get the Oscar for it um so now uh Calabro shall we get to our final segments yeah the the best segment that everybody has been waiting for it's how would this movie be improved if it had Nicholas Cage in it in some capacity and I think we can all agree like every movie it would be improved with Nicholas Cage in it so I propose that it is to your point Alex it is time to remake this film you know I think it's relevant I think we should take down Hollywood a couple of pegs I also agree with you Clint it's time for the sex Thriller to come back so like why why don't we reimagine Sunset Boulevard as a sex Thriller with Nicholas with Nicholas Cage as Max the soy I knew I knew it was gonna be Max I knew it was gonna be the perfect age yeah he's an old ass man you know you just got to get a 90s heartthrob to play like Gloria Swanson right now and throw Timothy chalamet in there as a writer and then bam we got to go we gotta have to go picture I don't know what Timothy Charlemagne would be my choice yeah you gotta play with the dynamic Nick of like Nicholas Cage and Joe Gillis you can't have like a I don't think you could have a tradition I mean it would be it would be Renfield like it would be Nicholas would be oh you know I see Nicholas Holt yeah who's Gloria Swanson Christy Swanson or who's who's Norma Desmond no Christy Swanson who's Christy Swanson she's the she's from uh I guess we could do you know who it would be if we're gonna make this the the erotic Thriller come back it needs to be sharing Stone yeah yeah it has to be there it is Nicholas Cage as Max Sharon Stone as Norma as Norma and then this is called as Joe no I hate that I don't hate that I know I know I'd watch that who's already we haven't even talked about artists Sam Rockwell the kid Greg from succession hmm too many nicholases in the movie though you can't have that many nickels yeah Nick Nick three Nick three yeah I mean I'm trying to picture a Nicholas Cage though as Max I mean you'd have to read interpret Max honestly it's who I chose it was the same yeah who would you move was there anybody else no I mean there's like I said there's not a lot of characters in this movie is he your Artie because I don't think I like him as Max like hot take because I think I think that doesn't allow Nick Cage to do very much like Max is eccentric but he's very um it doesn't come out a lot I think I think it would if Nicholas I think I think a scene because we have Max he's not a character that gets slow played yeah yeah yeah we have to we have to bring something new to the like new to the film and I think giving like Max a moment to explode on Joe Gillis is like you know that that scene where he can like really let go and yeah exploring the Dynamics between Joe and Max oh for a like 10 extra minutes yeah on screen period for 10 extra like they never go back to that reveal that he was her her husband yeah I mean the only time the only real thing that it does number one in the moment it's it's bananas yeah and then the only other thing that it does for me anyway is it tempers that end the end scene where he's directing her and he's like still kind of shepherding her through a situation that he knows is painful yeah um and knowing that that's who he is and seeing him sort of spring into action like that yeah um it comes back there but not explicitly yeah who would be your Cecile feed the mill oh I mean hmm it would need to be like a Scorsese oh I'd go with the Palma you figure you have like the new Hollywood sex pest is your yeah you'd be a bad guy but I mean you need to do Scorsese because Sharon Stone worked with him yeah yeah oh see I like that yeah that does the meta-narrative part again yeah so then where do we get James Woods in here no you don't how to change what you're not available yeah that one that one we can thank Dan for it I can't believe I'm saying this I think I like that except for Nicolas Cage that's Max yeah I think that's the only thing I don't know wait where would you put him yeah I wouldn't I don't think so then wait then so then who's your max if it's not the great if it's not the great Nick Cage God it would be my Max that's really hard no it's not it's really easy hard for yourself oh fine I'll give you in the cage because I can't think of anyone but I hope that makes the movie better though I'm gonna say that we all agreed even though I know you didn't uh yeah but I it wasn't unanimous the prevailing wins are for Nick Cage to be Max uh in a remake of sunset before but it's now an erotic Thriller with Sharon Stone and yeah I mean if someone told me I had to put Nicolas Cage somewhere yes it would be Max well that's what we were doing yeah okay that's the whole that's the whole point of the bit okay uh well that's Sunset Boulevard so where where do you think uh where did you have it on your list Cal bro well I think the only reason we're doing this episode is because I had it at number two no wait let me double check it you don't know you don't know where it falls on my list I think that this is the second best movie of all that is some Independence Day wait yeah Sunset Boulevard um Dan also featured it on his list but right near the bottom 95. wow I shamed him into uh getting it up there and I didn't have it on my list either I'm glad I'm not alone two two blank spots and number two and a 95 uh and apparently apparently all that adds up to number 56. wow on the list Independence Day is 15. and no Independence Day Is My 15. independence day was uh where it was lower it was like 80 something right 84. eight oh it better be in the algorithm the algorithm called number 84. so the algorithm is much kinder to Sunset Boulevard whatever that means number 56. yeah the thing is like and I I said this during the Independence Day episode I figure that there will be some movies that I watch as we do this where I'm like oh why didn't I have this on my list and I didn't feel that way about independence day I feel that way about Sunset Boulevard that is the trick with this uh with this whole process is like I didn't re-watch 100 movies to make to make my list I just kind of pulled them out of my head I cruise through you know I Googled some things and looked around and it was like oh right no I love that movie but then uh but re-watching some like yeah Sunset Boulevard I should have put it on there it's great yeah I should have too I regret it yeah it's gonna end up on top 10 Vos I wonder as soon as I get around here no we should like do a we should get like a cheat sheet and do like a revised list at the end of this we can yeah we certainly can episode 101 yeah that will be the the new top 100 that'll be season number two first season 100 episodes second season yeah exactly it used to be back in the good old days yeah true uh okay well that is that'll do it for Sunset Boulevard any any parting parting thoughts yeah don't forget to like And subscribe and uh if you can leave your comment on where you think Nicholas Cage would be in uh Sunset Boulevard reboot that is an excellent CTA and uh thank you for joining us again here at cinefix top 100 comeback next week for parasite ooh exciting Best Picture Winner a little bit of a parasite himself oh there's a connection that connection your parasite oh no I feel like we can now go out we can cut that yeah cut that could we yeah okay

Channel: CineFix - IGN Movies and TV

Views: 31,967

Keywords: DVD, Drama, Film-Noir, Paramount Home Entertainment, Paramount Pictures, Sunset Boulevard, Theater, Thriller

Id: ykjfQgN9gd8

Length: 66min 34sec (3994 seconds)

Published: Mon Jul 17 2023