>>> THEY RESPOND TO TRUMP, AND LOOK BACK AT THE PRESIDENCY AND SAY, HEY, MY WAGES WERE HIGHER, INFLATION WAS LOWER, SO MAYBE THE GUY IS A JERK AND A BADASS AND THE WORLD FEARS HIM BUT -- >> HE COMPLAINS ABOUT THINGS. >> THAT'S WHERE WE'RE LOOKING. >> TAKE ON THE ADMINISTRATIVE STATE. >> HE'S NOT TALKING ABOUT HELPING PEOPLE'S LIVES. HE'S TALKING ABOUT GOING AFTER THE PEOPLE MEAN TO HIM. HE SAYS, OH, I'M GOING TO HAVE THE DOJ TARGET BILL BARR BECAUSE HE WAS MEAN TO ME. I'LL HAVE THE DOJ TARGET JOHN KELLY BECAUSE HE TURNED ON ME. I'LL HAVE THE DOJ TARGET JACK SMITH BECAUSE -- >> THAT'S NOT TRUE. >> THAT'S ALL HE TALKS ABOUT. HE DOESN'T TALK ABOUT HELPING PEOPLE. >> THAT'S NOT TRUE. >> THAT'S NOT TRUE. >> YOU KNOW, A MAGA LAWYER ON YOUR PODCAST, MIKE DAVIS, HERE'S WHAT HE SUGGESTED WERE THE TOP PRIORITIES FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, ONE, FIRE THE DEEP STATE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, INDICT THE BIDEN FAMILY, DEPORT 10 MILLION PEOPLE, KIDS IN CAGES, GLORIOUS, FOUR, DETAIN PEOPLE AT GITMO, FIVE, PARDON EVERY JANUARY 6th DEFENDANT. WHAT DO YOU THINK? >> WE SHOULD DO IT. WE'LL START THE LARGEST DEPORTATION EFFORT IN HISTORY. ALL 10 MILLION MUST LEAVE. >> PART OF AN EXCHANGE WITH LONGTIME ADVISER STEVE BANNON FROM THE FINAL EPISODE OF "THE CIRCUS." JOINING US NOW, ONE OF THE NOW FORMER CO-HOSTS OF "THE CIRCUS," POLITICAL STRATEGIST MARK McKINNON. PLUS, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR MIKE BARNICLE. AND SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT AT "VANITY FAIR," HOST OF "THE FAST POLITICS PODCAST," MOLLY JONG-FAST. >> MARK McKINNON, IT USED TO BE A BOB AND WEAVE, WHERE DONALD TRUMP WOULD SAY SOMETHING EXTREME AND THEN BACK OFF AND GO, "OH, NO, NO, I DON'T MEAN THAT. I DON'T MEAN THAT AT ALL." NOW, THEY'RE ALL JUST COMING STRAIGHT. IT USED TO BE BANNON WOULD SAY SOMETHING CRAZY, AND TRUMP AND HIS PEOPLE WOULD SAY, "NO, THAT'S NOT THE CASE." NO, THEY'RE ALIGNED NOW. BANNON SAID SEVEN YEARS AGO, "I'M A LENNONIST. I WANT TO TEAR DOWN THE STATE." NOW TRUMP IS. THEY SAY THEY WANT TO ARREST THE ENTIRE BIDEN FAMILY. THEY WANT TO ARREST PEOPLE. EVEN HIS FORMER LAWYERS THAT TURNED ON HIM. I MEAN, THIS IS JUST FULL ON FASCISM, AND THEIR PROUD OF IT. >> THAT'S WHAT'S REMARKABLE, JOE. MOLLY AND I WERE TALKING ABOUT IT. THERE'S NO SECRET TO THE SECRET PLAN. BELIEVE THEM WHEN THEY TELL YOU WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO. I MEAN, BANNON WENT ON TO SAY THIS MOVEMENT IS MOVING BEYOND TRUMP. TRUMP, IN HIS VIEW, IS A MODERATE. YOU KNOW, THEY'RE TALK ABOUT THE GREATEST DEPORTATION IN HISTORY. IT'S PRETTY CHILLING. AS YOU SAID, THE REMARKABLE THING ABOUT IT IS THEY'RE NOT HIDING THE BALL ON THIS. EVERYBODY SHOULD KNOW, TEAM DEMOCRACY, IT'S TIME TO SUIT UP. >> YEAH. WILLIE, IT IS, AGAIN, THEY'RE ADMITTING THE QUIET PART OUT LOUD. NOW, TRUMP HAS IT TO WHERE HE IS LIFTING WORDS AND PHRASES FROM HITLER'S SPEECHES. >> YEAH, THE VERMIN TERM. REMEMBER, HE SAID, "I AM YOUR RETRIBUTION" TO HIS SUPPORTERS. NOW NOT SAYING IT IN A VAGUE WAY, MOLLY, BUT SPECIFIC PLANS FROM PEOPLE WHO PRESUMABLY WOULD BE CLOSE ADVISORS IN THE ADMINISTRATION, ABOUT HOW THEY'D GO OUT CARRYING OUT THAT RETRIBUTION. YOU HEARD STEVE BANNON, TAKE IT FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH, HE IS A PODCASTER PROBABLY GOING TO JAIL SOON. >> NEGATIVE ON PODCASTERS? >> NO, NO. >> YEAH. >> OBVIOUSLY INFLUENTIAL IN THE MAGA MOVEMENT. THE FACT HE IS SAYING OUT LOUD, WE SHOULD PARDON ALL THE PEOPLE WHO ATTACKED THE CAPITOL, WHO BEAT UP COPS ON JANUARY 6th. TRUMP SAID THAT, TOO, BY THE WAY. >> IT'S INTERESTING. REPUBLICANS AND TRUMPISTS HAVE THESE IDEAS THAT ARE NOT POPULAR WITH THE GENERAL ELECTORATE, RIGHT? THEY'RE NOT. WE SEE THIS AGAIN AND AGAIN. WE SAW IT IN THE 2023 OFF-YEAR ELECTION. THESE IDEAS ARE NOT POPULAR. BALLOT INITIATIVES BY DEMOCRATS OVERPERFORM. WE'RE SEEING, YOU KNOW -- YOU SAW SANTORUM SAY DEMOCRATS GET TO RUN ON SEXY IDEAS LIKE LEGALIZING MARIJUANA AND ABORTION. OKAY, BUT THEY'RE POPULAR. THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE, POPULAR. MEANWHILE, ON THE TRUMP SIDE, YOU HAVE REPUBLICANS RUNNING ON TRUMP'S RETRIBUTION, DEPORTING PEOPLE, DEPORTING PEOPLE IN GITMO. THESE ARE NOT POPULAR IDEAS. >> ISN'T ONE OF THE LARGER QUESTIONS THAT THE COUNTRY CONFRONTS OR HAS TO CONFRONT IS WHEN WILL AMERICA STOP SLEEPWALKING TOWARDS THE END OF DEMOCRACY? >> RIGHT. >> I MEAN, ALL OF US HERE AT THIS TABLE -- >> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. >> -- RECALL THE SUMMER OF 2015 WHEN DONALD TRUMP MALIGNED JOHN McCAIN, MALIGNED HIS SERVICE, MALIGNED HIS CAREER. EVERYBODY I KNOW SAID, WELL, THAT'S IT FOR TRUMP. >> RIGHT. >> ANYBODY WHO SAYS THAT ABOUT JOHN McCAIN, THAT'S IT FOR TRUMP. WELL, IT WASN'T AND IT ISN'T UP UNTIL THIS MOMENT IN TIME. >> YEAH. >> HE CAN BE IN CLAREMONT, NEW HAMPSHIRE, OVER THE WEEKEND, ON VETERANS DAY, CALLING AMERICANS VERMIN. >> YEAH. >> ON VETERANS DAY, MALIGNING DEMOCRACY, OUTLINING EXACTLY WHAT HE INTENDS TO DO. HE SAYS THE TRUTH OUT LOUD, HIS OWN TRUTH. >> BELIEVE HIM. >> YEAH. >> WHY, WHY DO WE SIT HERE? WHY DOES "THE NEW YORK TIMES" AND OTHER MAJOR PUBLICATIONS NOT START CONFRONTING THIS? YOU'RE RIGHT, IT'S TIME TO SUIT UP, BUT IT IS WELL PAST HALFTIME. >> YEAH. >> WE'RE IN THE FOURTH QUARTER HERE. >> EXACTLY RIGHT. TIME TO GET ON THE FIELD. WHAT'S REMARKABLE IS, WE KNOW FROM 2015 HOW THAT STORY ENDS. WE KNOW HOW THIS ONE COULD END. SO WE'VE GOTTEN THE PREVIEW. LET'S GO. >> MOLLY, IT SEEMS TO ME, YOU'RE RIGHT,BROADLY POPULAR IDEAS BUT THEY ARE POPULAR WITH HIS BASE. INDEPENDENT SWING VOTERS SEEM TO BE UNHAPPY WITH BOTH CHOICES. LET'S SET MOTIVATIONS ASIDE FOR A MOMENT. WHAT CAN DEMOCRATS TO TO TURN OUT THEIR BASE? WE'VE SEEN REPORTING AND POLLS IN RECENT WEEKS THAT SOME OF THE USUAL DEMOCRATIC VOTERS AREN'T THAT ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT THIS TICKET. >> RIGHT. WHAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT THESE POLLS, AND, AGAIN, I THINK THROW THE POLLS OUT, BUT IN THESE POLLS, THERE IS GOOD NEWS FOR THE GENERIC DEM, RIGHT? THAT NUMBER DOES REALLY WELL. THAT'S SAYING THAT THE DEMOCRAT DEMOCRATIC BRAND IS ACTUALLY NOT IN BAD SHAPE, RIGHT? DESPITE THE FACT THAT THERE'S A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, BUN DI PUNDITG THE DEMOCRATIC BRAND IS TARNISHED. IT'S NOT. IT'S THE ONLY THING THAT'S COME OUT OF THIS THAT IS DOING WELL, AND WE'RE SEEING IT AGAIN AND AGAIN IN THE SPECIAL ELECTIONS. DEMOCRATS HAVE POPULAR IDEAS. THEY'RE NOT TOO CRAZY. YOU KNOW, REPUBLICANS WENT TOO FAR, RIGHT? TRUMPISTS WENT TOO FAR. YOU KNOW, MAINSTREAM VOTERS DON'T LIKE THE ABORTION STUFF. THEY DON'T LIKE FEELING THE GOVERNMENT IS IN THEIR BEDROOM. THEY DON'T LIKE IT. IT'S TOO MUCH. AND SO ESPECIALLY THE TRANS PANIC, YOU KNOW, THAT ALSO DID NOT WORK FOR REPUBLICANS. YOU KNOW, THE BOOK BANS. [ LAUGHTER ] THE MAINSTREAM VOTERS JUST WANT NORMAL. THE DEMOCRATS ARE DOING THAT. >> I LOVE THAT. >> IT'S SO TRUE. >> THE TRANS PANIC. >> THEY'RE SNOWFLAKES. >> IN '22, I HAD REPUBLICAN STRATEGISTS CALLING AROUND, "HEY, WHAT ARE YOU DOING?" OH, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BELIEVE IT. PEOPLE IN THIS STATE, I WON'T SAY THE STATE, IT'D REVEAL THE GUY BECAUSE HE RUNS THE REPUBLICANS SORT OF OPERATION IN THIS ONE STATE. >> YEAH. >> PEOPLE IN THIS STATE ARE GOING TO GET 20 DIFFERENT PIECES OF MAIL ON TRANS ATHLETES TAKING THEIR DAUGHTERS' POSITION IN TRACK. WENT ON AND ON. I SAT THERE GOING TO MYSELF, WAIT A SECOND, AREN'T THESE THE GUYS THAT HAVE BEEN BITCHING AND MOANING ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE DEMOCRATS AREN'T TALKING ABOUT INFLATION, THE DEMOCRATS AREN'T TALKING ABOUT CRIME, THE DEMOCRATS AREN'T TALKING ABOUT THE SOUTHERN BORDER? THEY HAVE THIS BIZARRE OBSESSION, ALMOST LIKE THE SPEAKER HAS THIS REALLY STRANGE OBSESSION ON HOMOSEXUALITY. >> YEAH. >> MEN DOING WHAT THEY WANT TO DO, CONSENTING ADULTS IN THEIR BEDROOM IS GOING TO BE THE COLLAPSE OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION. NOW, I DON'T KNOW WHO OBSESSES ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY SO MUCH THAT THEY -- >> THERE IS AN ACCOUNTABILITY SYSTEM. >> YEAH, THEY HAVE THIS PORN SHARING SERVICE BETWEEN HIM AND THIS GUY. IT'S ALL VERY -- IT'S ALL SOMETHING. >> SOMEBODY HELPS CONVERT PEOPLE. >> THEN, YEAH, YOU HAVE ALL THIS STUFF GOING ON, MOLLY. >> SWIRL OF IT. >> FUNNY THING HAPPENED ON THE WAY TO EVERY ELECTION IN '17, '18, '19, '20, '21, '22, '23. ALL OF THESE HOT BUTTON ISSUES, WHETHER IT'S THE SOUTHERN BORDER, WHETHER IT'S ABORTION, WHETHER IT'S TRANS ATHLETES, YOU NAME IT, BOOK BURNINGS, WHATEVER REPUBLICANS WANTED TO DO, THEY ALL FAILED. >> YEAH. >> BECAUSE REPUBLICANS ALWAYS HAVE LOST, ALWAYS UNDERPERFORMED. EVEN THE HOUSE WHERE THEY BARELY SQUEAKED BY, A YEAR BEFORE, KEVIN McCARTHY SAID THEY WOULD WIN 50 SEATS. THEY DIDN'T. WHY? THEY OBSESS ON THESE FREAKISH THINGS THAT A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THEIR BASE OBSESS OVER. >> YEAH. THEY MADE A PERSON SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE WHO IS SO OUT OF THE MAINSTREAM. THEY COULD HAVE MADE SOMEONE WHO WAS MORE OF A MAINSTREAM, YOU KNOW, CANDIDATE FOR SPEAKER. INSTEAD, THEY PICKED MIKE JOHNSON, WHO HAS ALL OF THIS RELIGIOUS WRITING, WHO IS NOWHERE WHERE A MAINSTREAM VOTER IS. I THINK THAT THEY'RE GOING TO PAY FOR THAT. I MEAN, THEY CANNOT -- THEY JUST CANNOT TEMPER THE FAR RIGHT, SO THEY CANNOT APPEAL TO MAINSTREAM VOTERS. THIS IS ONE OF THE PRON PROBLEMH TRUMPISM. YOU CAN'T KEEP CONTROL OVER THIS FAR RIGHT FRACTION. >> GO AHEAD, MARK. >> I DON'T THINK VOTERS ARE GOING TO SLEEPWALK THROUGH THIS. THEY KNOW WHAT THE NIGHTMARE IS. THEY MIGHT BE NAPPING RIGHT NOW, BUT BY THE TIME WE GET TO NEXT YEAR, THE STAKES ARE GOING TO BE SO CLEAR. PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE JUMPING OUT OF WINDOWS. >> WHY AREN'T THE DEMOCRATS, MORE TO THE POINT ON ALL OF THIS, THOUGH, WHY ARE THE DEMOCRATS SLEEPWALKING AS THIS IS ALWAYS GOING ON AROUND US? >> I THINK THEY'RE NAPPING. I THINK THEY'LL BE UP IN TIME FOR NEXT YEAR. >> THE THREE POINTS THAT -- >> WELL, CAN I ANSWER THAT? SORRY, GO, MIKE, THEN I'LL ANSWER WHY IT SEEMS THEY'RE SLEEPWALKING. GO AHEAD, MIKE. >> THE THREE POINTS YOU MENTIONED, JOE, YOU KNOW, THE TRANS PANIC, THE BOOK BURNING, ABORTION AND EVERYTHING LIKE THAT, WHY DON'T THE DEMOCRATS SAY, HEY, THIS PARTY, A PARTICULAR SLICE OF THIS PARTY, A DOMINANT SLICE OF THIS PARTY, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, THEY WANT TO FOOL AROUND WITH YOUR FAMILY. THEY WANT TO COME INTO YOUR HOUSE AND TELL YOU, "NO, YOU CAN'T DO THAT WITH YOUR CHILD. NO, YOU CAN'T DO THIS WITH YOUR KIDS IN SCHOOL." >> ANDY BESHEAR DID THAT. >> HE DID. >> HE WON BY A MUCH LARGER MARGIN. >> AND HE WON IN THE STATE OF
