Simple Hacks To Feel Better In Five Minutes

and this is what we have to do in behavior change we have to help people feel successful they've got to feel good and if they feel good they're going to continue doing things [Music] welcome to the doctor's pharmacy i'm dr mark hyman and that's pharmacy with an f-f-a-r-m-a-c-y a place for conversations that matter and if you've ever tried to change your behavior and failed around your health or anything else this is the podcast you want to listen to because it's with my friend an extraordinary doctor healer teacher educator inspiration for me and millions of others dr rankin chatterjee and i got to know him years ago before he was famous dr he's he's really one of the leading physicians in the uk focused on health and wellness and functional medicine he's been the most listened to on podcasts in the uk his podcast feel better live more is basically the number one podcast in the uk and europe his first three books have all been number one sunday times bestsellers that's uh the london times i think right yeah that's our equivalent of you guys with new york he um his his latest book feel better in five which everybody should get a copy of it's incredible feel better in five five minutes is all you need to fix your health uh and well-being it's a smash hit in the uk it's sold a hundred thousand copies in just seven months it's been published in the united states recently uh professor b.j fogg who's one of the world's leading experts in human behavior calls his book one of the best habit change programs he's ever seen deceptively simple but remarkably effective and i know you and i both been inspired by b.j fogg he's regularly on the bbc news and television he's been featured in many international publications including new york times forbes the guardian vogue and his ted talk how to make disease disappear has been viewed almost three million times and he was also the main star and host of an incredible bbc television series called doctor in the house which is an incredible show that highlights how if you go into people's homes and teach them the basic skills of healthy living based on the principles of functional medicine you can see remarkable transformations people with diabetes with migraine headaches with all sorts of chronic ailments literally disappeared using very simple principles you're going to learn about in the podcast today so welcome rungan mark thank you so much for having me back on your show oh my god it's great you were here before you're gonna be here again i'm sure uh you're one of my favorite humans uh and besides all those incredible accolades one of my favorite things about you is you're a lead singer in a rock band and you you perform all over europe you're like the indian version of the beatles or something so i just i just think you're one of the best humans and such a good heart your wife is so lovely and your kids are so sweet and so that really matters to me and i think you have a lot to share about how to fix our our global health issues our personal health issues and i'm just so excited to have you on the podcast well thanks mark obviously last time i came on your show we were face to face in your studio it's not possible at the moment i was hoping to get out to america to have this conversation face to face but the times have changed right so we're doing it over over the internet it's true and you know uh it's hard during kobe to to actually often deal with our personal health because of the psychological stress the social isolation the lack of access to things that we might have had access to before the economic stresses that people are feeling the uncertainty and that often leads to maladaptive behaviors drinking too much i mean i think in south africa they closed all the liquor stores they didn't consider an essential business uh and uh and also people are eating more junk food and processed food they're not going to the gym they're not going to yoga they're not exercising so we're seeing this this downturn in people's health are related to covet 19 people call it the quarantine 15 or the kovid 19 you know pounds that you're gaining and and the problem with that is that we know we know that if you're just a little overweight your risk of death is two and a half times that of someone who's healthy for coba 19 if you're obese which is 42 percent of americans i don't know how many percent probably 37 percent of uh people in the uk your risk of death is 12 times 12 times that is someone who's medically healthy so what we're going to talk about the things that matter today which is how do we stick to behaviors that are hard to stick to whether it's healthy eating whether it's self-care whether it's exercise or meditation and your book is just such an incredible treasure trove and i'm honestly jealous from like i wish i wrote this book because it's just so good and it's so full of practical tips and i tend to get lost in 600 studies and all the data and you know you just have created this incredible manual for how to live better and feel better in five well yeah ma i mean first of all as always you're very kind you've given me a very warm welcome to your show and says very kind things um but i think what you just said there really highlights why i wrote this book in the first place so for me i understand that there's a lot of health information out there you've written some fantastic books i've written two books prior to this where i've given people a lot of information people go on instagram they see a great meme and they feel inspired to go yeah yeah i love it i like that one i'm gonna press like and i'm gonna give that a heart but often inspiration is not leading to action right people read something they like something they think they've done something they haven't done anything they just like to post on social media or they bought a book but that doesn't mean they've actually done anything so i set myself the goal of writing in a book about action how do you actually take action on your health and i think i say early on in the book i say look if you want more of the science about this about my recommendations go to my first two books we'll go to any of your books right the science is there but what i really tried to do mark and i i really seen the uk that i think i've managed to do that given the impact it's having given the amount of people who are finding it really useful so i've tried to distill everything i know for almost 20 years of seeing patients distill it all down and go okay if you want a book that's going to show you what to do and how to do it i'm just going to give you exactly what you need to do and i'm really proud of it it may not it may not seem like this i mean you've obviously written what gazillion books how many books have you written now 15 something like that 20. i think 17 maybe 18 i don't know i gotta look i gotta keep yeah you bring a lot of books right and it may not seem that way when you look at this one but this was the hardest book for me to write because it's for me it's easier to put more information and give you more science and give you more to try and back up what i'm saying and i think that has a place and that has value but i really challenge myself to go no only put in exactly what that person needs to know so that they go and do the behavior so i like you i'm very passionate that the majority of what we're seeing as medical doctors is in some way related to our collective modern lifestyles and i really wanted to show people how do you make behavior change in real life why is it that you bought 10 books before you read it you tried it for three or four weeks you felt great but then over the coming months you slipped back into previous patterns and the book came out pre covered 19 but in many ways it's taken on a new level of importance in these kind of unusual times in which we're living where a lot of the things that made it easy for people to engage in good health behaviors like you know going to the gym going to yoga class those things have been taken away from people so in many ways although i think this plan worked beautifully well pre-pandemic i think it arguably works even better in the pandemic because pretty much everything can be done from home um and again everything in the book takes just five minutes now you mentioned bj fogg in the introduction you know bj is a good friend if you're a good friend of mine um what was interesting is this was actually a few days after i recorded the last conversation with you uh for my stress book when i remember you were headed up to go to his training program yeah i had already written feel better in five but then i went to his two-day boot camp before you get into that who is bj fogg why should we be caring and and what has he contributed to the science and behavior change and then tell us about your experience yes so bj i think you could probably make a strong case for saying he's the world's leading expert in human behavior he sort of wrote the manual on human behavior so you know all kinds of amazing people that people know about near royale james clear the founder of instagram they've all studied under bj you know they've learned his principles i think actually you may know this more that instagram was actually one of his class assignments for his students so i think back in maybe 2007 at his class at stanford i think the story goes something like guys photo sharing is going to be uh really big in the future there's you know apps and technology coming out that's going to make it really easy to share good photos can you guys create something that takes advantage of that i think he's got the original mark sheet that he gave to instagram i think he gave it you know very high combination said a very high chance of success so this is a super influential guy um you know a lot of the technology we use and many people listening and watching this mark on a daily basis they will be using some of the principles and technology that bj has studied and done the primary research on so when bj did read my book and actually gave it such a fantastic endorsement i was really humbled actually and what was really remarkable mark and i think you'll resonate with us as a practicing clinician is that i figured a lot of this stuff out over 20 years of seeing patients i'm figuring out what works and what doesn't work why have i asked that patient to work out three times a week but he comes back four weeks saying i've not managed to do it and then by tweaking how i recommend uh these interventions to people suddenly i see levels of success going up and and you know what my 20 years of clinical experience has taught me is exactly what bj's 20 years of clinical research uh sorry his his research has taught him and it was a real beautiful meeting of his research mind and my clinical experience and the principles were the same um so you know maybe i could give you an example of a patient as a way of sort of before you before you give us an example i just want to i want to share something because i think that most people don't realize how little training healthcare providers and doctors get in the science of behavior change and yet that is all that we're about okay take this medicine 50 of people prescribe their drugs actually fill the prescription and those who fill it only about half of those take the medicine and then when you look at the regular recommendations around lifestyle change is eat better eat less exercise more and we tell people to do that and they come back and they fail and it's predictable and it's completely unscientific how we're doing this as healthcare providers and what you're doing is taking the latest science of behavior change and you're actually implementing it in a practical model for people in your book feel better and five your daily plan to feel great for life because people are failing and you don't want them to fail and and even you know i see with my recommendations they're often too much or too big or too intense and some people will follow them if they have enough stress or enough pain or enough conditions that they're really willing to take a plunge right they're really on 10 medications and diabetes they're just like sick of being sick they'll do something but you're talking about for the average person how do you actually build these daily habits and in his book tiny habits is this really all about this strategy that you use in your book so tell us about this patient now that we sort of set the stage because we we have to sort of admit that we've failed as a as a profession in understanding how to actually create behavior change i might just before i tell you the patient just to just to sort of follow on from what you're saying not only do medical doctors not have enough training in lifestyle and nutrition full stop even if we then go and learn about that we're not learning about behavior change so we may then know the science of lifestyle and nutrition but we don't know how to help our patients actually stick to it because it's not you know knowledge is not enough knowledge does not always lead to long-term action and that's what that's what we're seeing this is where i think health coaches can be so valuable because a lot of health coaches understand behavior change they understand how do you help an individual create these new behaviors um but i think this this patient that i saw i think really illustrates this beautifully well so i think it was about seven or eight years ago 42 year old gentleman comes in to see me in my practice and he's struggling with a lot of the the problems that many people are struggling with these days he was a little bit overweight he was low in energy and struggling with his mood okay these are pretty common problems uh i had a chat with him and at the end of the the conversation it was very clear to me that there were various aspects in his lifestyle that we're contributing to the way that he was feeling okay we discussed a number of options and the one he really liked was strength training he said doc strength training i've not done that since i was a teenager that sounds really good i'm in i've you know it's going to help my brain held my mood it's going to help me lose weight yeah i want to do that i said okay great you want to do that grill and then he says to me he says okay so you know what shall i do shall i do 40 minutes three times a week in the gym i said yeah that would be amazing if you can do that go fantastic so he walks out the door big smile on his face you know feeling good about himself feeling motivated and i make a follow-up appointment for four weeks time four months lazy i call him into my room he walks in this time he looks different his shoulders are stoops over he's walking a bit slowly i said hey look you know how are you getting on you know how's the gym is it making a difference and he said dr chastey um i've not actually managed to go much yet you know work's been really busy i've been really tired the gym's about 25 minutes away from work i've just not got around to it i'm really winning i remember mark in that moment it was it was a very transformative consultation for me because in that moment i didn't think why has he not done what i've asked him to do i said to myself wrong listen you're clearly not giving him advice that he feels is relevant to him in the context of his life and so i thought okay i'm going to change that i took off my jackets and i said hey look i'm going to teach you right now a five-minute workout where you don't need to buy any equipment you don't need to join a gym and you don't even need to get changed and he looks at me bemused i said okay so he i taught him five bodyweight exercises uh and then modified them his ability level and he said i said can you do that he goes i can do that use it i thought okay i'd like to see it for five minutes twice a week in your kitchen and he said what did you do ten minutes a week i said yeah can you do that guess yeah of course i can do that i said okay i'll see you in four weeks four weeks later right i call him in this time he walks in chest puffed out big smile on his face i say hey how are you getting on he says doc you know what i started off doing it five minutes twice a week but i love it so much and it's so easy to do i now do it for 10 minutes every evening before i have my dinner and so so he goes from not being able to do anything to doing 17 minutes of strength training a week and what that has continued for over five years and not only has he done that that has led to what i write about in the book that i call a ripple effect that change did so much for him that he now gets up in the morning he meditates for five minutes he goes through a walk every lunch time he eats better he sleeps better all of these ripple effects started with him being able to make a change and stick to it and mark i've seen this over and over again and i think if we really dissect that and you use the the lens of behavior change science you understand so many factors in that literally mimic bj's research mimic the the behavior science research on how you help create successful behaviors so rule number one there are six rules that i write about but rule number one is you've got to make it easy you have to make it easy so let's just forget about health for a minute let's talk about business because people will really understand this so i'm guessing most people listen to this shop on amazon at some point i mean i think if they didn't before covid they certainly do not give an obviously that was the only shop i think opened for about three months um what what do amazon do right well what amazon is very clever it about five years ago they moved to one click ordering and their profits are estimated to have gone up by 300 million dollars a year right why would that be well because in the past mark and i can remember this i'm sure you can remember this to make a purchase you had to go through four or five steps you'd go to your basket you then confirm it you then have to type in your card details confirm place order every time you have to take another step and go to another screen as a reason to back out from that behavior right so you didn't do it now before you've even blinked you've got something that's arriving the next morning with amazon prime right so amazon understand that if you make something easy to do humans do it netflix understand that the reason netflix roll one episode into the next episode is because before you've had a chance to realize it's midnight i need to go to bed i've got work tomorrow morning you're straight into the next episode and you're like oh i just watched one more youtube do the same thing right i'm not having a go at these companies these companies understand behavior change and they use it to get you to buy more or to spend longer on their platform but when we come to human health and our own behavior we don't do that we think oh it's got to be hard it's got to be about deprivation it's got to be about punishment but no we don't apply the simple rules so what did i do for this 42 year old chap i made it easy i made it so easy that he could do it in his kitchen he didn't have to buy any equipment so he couldn't say oh i don't have this equipment he didn't even need to get changed right he does it in his work clothes when he gets home right so i made it super easy that's rule number one you've got to make a behavior easy hi everyone hope you're enjoying the episode before we continue we have a quick message from dr mark hyman about his new company pharmacy and their first product the 10-day reset hey it's dr hyman do you have flc what's flc it's when you feel like crap it's a problem that so many people suffer from and often have no idea that it's not normal or that you can fix it i mean you know the feeling it's when you're super sluggish your digestion's off you can't think clearly or you have brain fog or you just feel run down can you relate i know most people can't but the real question is what the heck do we do about it well i hate to break the news but there's no magic bullet flc isn't caused by one single thing so there's not one single solution however there is a systems-based approach a way to tackle the multiple root factors that contribute to flc and i call that system the 10-day reset the 10-day reset combines food key lifestyle habits and targeted supplements to address fsd straight on it's a protocol that i've used with thousands of my community members to help them get their health back on track it's not a magic bullet it's not a quick fix it's a system that works if you want to learn more and get your health back on track click on the button below or visit getpharmacy.com that's get pharmacy with an f f a rmacy.com now back to this week's episode rule number two is where do you put this habit in your life right so this is what you know any any habit at all then i know you've spoken to bj as well so bj's got this uh uh behavior change model um that any behavior happens when motivation ability and trigger come together at the same time and at this time we can dissect it but that last one is really important trigger any behavior needs a trigger so uh a trigger could be you just remember oh i remember i read in mark hyman's book that i should meditate right oh i must meditate today sure that works it just happens to be a very unreliable form of trigger because you're relying on your memory the next best form of trigger is a post-it note like a like a note you put on your fridge or in your laptop screen so when you open it you've got a prompt to actually do a certain behavior that's better than your memory but it's not as good as the best one which is when you stick on your new behavior onto an existing behavior that you already do without thinking about it basically you stick it on to a habit and that's the secret because uh what do i do every morning i've not been to a gym now i don't think for about two years mark but i work out every day so what do i do each morning well i make coffee i like coffee um and i weigh out my coffee beans i pour it into the french i pour the water on and i it brews for four to five minutes in those four to five minutes i don't go on instagram i don't go on my emails i do a bodyweight workout in my kitchen in my pajamas right so i'm not sure i could do that before coffee though that's the problem hey they might need a coffee yes that's a really good point right so this is very individual i have figured out what works for me that's the perfect time in the day for me to do it so i'm i'd like to think i'm in pretty good shape and i think five minutes of strength training every day consistently done every single day i don't think i've missed a day in about three two or three years i honestly don't feel i missed a day because i didn't miss a day about brushing my teeth i don't forget to brush my teeth no i've created a habit around brushing my teeth i don't forget to have my morning coffee so because i'm not forgetting to have my morning coffee well i don't need a prompt to remind me oh wrong and you forgot to have coffee today right no i'm going to have that and i suspect many people listening to this also have something in the mall in the morning that they want to do right so um yeah i have a similar i have a somewhere i have a shower that is in the top of my house which is a barn so it's to get from the you know water heater downstairs upstairs takes like a few minutes like five minutes i'm like well you know while i'm waiting for the shower to heat up i take a shower most days i'm just going to do like push-ups because i really hate push-ups and it was like about 10 years ago and i started like okay i'm just gonna do like one like a few push-ups before my show start with 10. and now i'm like up to 50 push-ups and it's it's like i i always get triggered because i'm going to take a shower the water's eating what i'm going to do wait around and it's this perfect moment and i think that's what you're talking about connecting it to an existing behavior yeah it it because you've got to remember a habit is a behavior that you're doing without thinking about it so if you connect it to an existing behavior you're already going to do that habit anyway and then you need to take you're taking memory out of the equation and again people need to experiment with what are those habits for me it works around coffee for some people it could be when they come home from work before i you know and i appreciate the moment people may not be traveling to and from work it could be the end of the work day when the laptop goes down maybe that's the trigger before you then go and put the television on or before you go onto instagram maybe the trigger is when your laptop goes down let's say someone's in a conventional job and let's say at 5 p.m it goes down maybe then they do a 5-minute yoga flow right because people think it's not enough mark but here's the thing these things add up very very quickly and why i like people starting small is if you start small people will increase it off their own accord this is what that gentleman did that 42-yard chap i mentioned at the start of this conversation he increased it to 10 minutes a day and actually now he's on 15 20 minutes a day but he did that not because i told him to do it but because he started doing it he starts to feel good and he thinks hey i can do this and he starts to increase it himself or as if when he set himself the target of 40 minutes three times a week he couldn't even get going in the first place and so you've got to make it easy stick it onto an existing habit so if people are listening to this i would i would ask them to ask themselves when they had tried to introduce a new behavior into their life in the past i bet that one of the reasons why it may not have turned into a habit is because they didn't follow one of those two key rules now it's always it's obviously not always the case but by and large i find we don't follow one of those two rules and that's why we don't manage the states now in that case i just really important part as well i think it's important for people to understand did you notice what i said about his body language so when he comes back for the first time he looks sheepish he looks a bit ashamed of himself you know he was reinforcing the identity that he already had of himself i can't stick to health plans i'm not a health person you know i can't fix any of these things no matter what i try right but then when i flipped it and i made it easy for him boom he comes back he said yeah i found five minutes twice a week really easy so suddenly his identity starts to change he starts to take on the identity of somebody oh i can stick to a health plan hey doc asked me to do 10 minutes a week i'm now doing 10 minutes a day i've superseded what he asked me to do i'm a success and this is what we have to do in behavior change we have to help people feel successful they've got to feel good and if they feel good they're going to continue doing things but if we make them feel bad if we shame them and say oh well you've not been to the gym once i mean are you really going to take your health seriously you know that just doesn't tend to work and mark i think you were very astute at the start when you mentioned sure some people don't need this approach i will accept that some people are so sick and have tried so hard for so long to get better they will do anything but they will literally do anything you know they've gone through let's say a health crisis maybe they've gone through a divorce a bereavement some kind of significant life event sure sometimes people can change overnight but for the vast majority of us who haven't reached a pain point but it's that bad yet we need to follow these principles and they as as bj said it sounds deceptively simple yeah but were the effects you mentioned covered related weight gain can i just tell you we're recording this in august right so uh the book came out in january in the uk right at the start of the year and what's really incredible is that so many people have messaged me on instagram saying do your best five program has helped me lose weight it i've lost two stone or three cent i think what is that that's like 30 40 pounds i've lost over the year slow and sustainably and what's interesting mark is you could say well why would that be because food doesn't play a huge part in this book right there's 30 or 40 five-minute health tips and i say to people you just gotta choose three right one from mind one from body one from heart we could talk about that a bit later if you want to yeah but but you know one of the things that i never heard before that's so brilliant in the book that you're going to explain is this idea of health snacks now and it's not actually food it's just these little moments of health that you insert into your day based on these principles and you call them health snacks for your mind body and heart it's just brilliant yeah well it's a bit of a play on the word snack you know one of them technically is a snack but most of them are not they are just little bite-sized doses of health-promoting behaviors that actually are fun and that's the other thing i'm really trying to instill in people with this book is that health doesn't need to be about deprivation and punishment in fact if you don't enjoy health you're going to struggle to make it last a lot of these interventions these recommendations these health snacks most of them are fun they're enjoyable to do so actually you can have fun and be healthy at the same time i know you know that mark i know i know that but many people still feel they've got a choice i can either enjoy my life or i can be healthy but i can't do both but actually it's simply not true and the reason why this this is the opposite it's hard to enjoy your life if you're not healthy exactly which is you know my podcast is called feel better live more because i try and encompass that when you feel better you get more at life everything you get more out of your free time your relationships your productivity whatever you want you get more out of it so you know you mentioned cobra related weight gain i think it's super important just to really hammer home why could a book like this help people lose weight even though i'm not giving them a brand new diet to follow well we know from the research that about 80 of people change their eating behavior in response to stress right different research will give you different numbers but it's about 80 from the research i've read about 45 of us eats more in response to stress 35 percent of us eat less in response to stress so it does completely make sense then in the time of the pandemic where many people are having their lives turned upside down when many people feel anxious scared worried nervous it makes complete sense that many of these people are gonna turn to food as a way of making them feel better and coping with that stress so is the solution for them to be told about a different diet maybe maybe not maybe the solution for some of them is to help them address the emotions behind their stress which if they can bring their stress levels right down maybe they won't seek those eating behaviors like the cookies in front of the television at 10 p.m in the evening maybe they can find another way to de-stress and that's why i'm amazed and so pleased to see that this program helps people lose weight as well and i think it's because i've taken a real holistic approach to health i've split health up into three areas mind body and heart and i think many of us overly focus on one area we focus on our favorite area and we neglect the ones that aren't our favorite i'm human being i do the same thing right so i'm not i'm not criticizing anyone we're all humans we're all imperfectly perfect right doing the best that we can and so i really i remember when i was writing it and i was thinking how do i how do i make it really simple for people but yet still cover 360 degree health my and i think mind body and heart does it mind is about mental health so i say choose one five minute health snack for your mental health each day um and then body is about moving give us an example of what the what those health stack for each area okay so i believe in giving people options right so i give people all kinds of options so in the mind section i think there's about 10 different health snacks you don't have to do them all nobody's got time to do them all choose one and stick to the same one every day because that's how you create a new habit so it could be a breathing exercise so there's there's there's two really cool five-minute breathing exercises in the book one is a zen practice called that called breath counting uh you know where you just simply you sit down um you breathe in and on your when you're breathing out you count number one breathe in on your second out breath you count number two just in your head and they go the goal is on each out breath up to five you go one two three four five then you return to one again right well it's remarkable mark i've done this exercise and once i got up to the number 30 before i'd realized that my mind had wandered i was just automatically counting so it's a really good exercise to help us train our focus and our concentration and again i went through a period of time while i was doing that every morning when i woke up and i found that my my focus and my craving for sugar i found actually was a lot reduced in the day when i did this which i found really really interesting so that's one option people may like uh for anxiety one of the first recommendations in the book is what i call a morning download so this is where we download all the junk and anxiety that we've accumulated in our brains overnight onto a piece of paper this is like the practice of journaling paper uh journaling basically and i've given people two options i said journaling you know when you wake up you've often got anxieties whirring around your brain and your mind and if you don't do anything to process them they can stay there all day they can impact your relationships they can impact your uh the way you feel about yourself and your stress levels but simply writing them down on paper uh literally and metaphorically takes them out of your head puts them down onto paper and it is really transformative and you know i say to people you can write anything you want right no it's not going to be you know the it's not the manuscript for your next book it's not a uh it's not a a letter to your boss it's whatever you want to write now for some people they think that's incredible and i remember the week after the book came out a couple of people messaged me and they said don't judge it's really interesting i didn't realize i was worried about anything until i started doing this then there was four or five really key things in my life that i was worried about that i was writing down every day but it was buried inside their brain so they weren't even aware of it so that's another one that they could do for their for their for their minds but if that's too freeform if that if people prefer a bit more structure i've created this uh exercise called the five-step release so these are five simple questions you ask yourself um basically to help and it's really good if you've got anxiety or you really struggle with a lot of thoughts and you can't quite focus and it's called a five-step release if you're interested mark i can talk you through it go for it yeah go for it okay yeah so i think people find this super super useful so the first question is what's one thing i'm anxious about today so you just write down our mattress about this today what's one practical thing i could do to prevent or prepare for it that's question number two question number three what's one reason it's probably not going to be as bad as i think it is question number four what's one reason i know i can probably handle it a question number five it's what's one upside of the situation and i could tell you mark it is so simple but it is so effective and i really would challenge anyone listening to this who struggles with anxiety so pause rewind that write those five questions down it's not going to cost you anything try it for the next few mornings when you wake up and just see how it makes you feel because i've seen over and over again that it makes a massive difference so that's another option another option is nature five minutes of nature in the morning or five minutes of flow um look in fact let me tell you this story mark i think you'll really like it a 48 year old lady with really bad migraines um you know she's busy she's a busy mother she's got three children her husband's in a busy job and she was coming to see me and we tried a few things but i really got the sense that stress was playing a big part in her migraines and i appreciate there's all kinds of other things that one can do with diet with magnesium but with her i thought okay stress is a big player for her but she was an a-type personality right she was busy all the time rushing out says i don't have time for any of that uh we i suggested yoga once and she said she gave it a try for two which she goes out dots yoga is not for me i don't have time for all this and so i was chatting with her and it turned out that she was quite into uh coloring books you know adult coloring books basically i don't know if there's a big uh um trend there in the u.s like there was in the uk but people find it a really incredible mindful exercise of unwinding when they're when they're colouring in so i said would you consider that she goes yeah well what difference is that going to make i said okay why don't we give it a go go into it with an open mind anyway we tried a few things and ultimately she said i can't stick to it and then what we did i said okay look what does your morning look like she goes i get up the kids are rushing around i need to get them ready for school i don't have any time for myself i go down i make myself a cup of tea and i sort of try and get through the morning i said okay so you're going down to make a cup of tea do you need a reminder for that no of course not i said do you need you need a notification say oh make a cup of tea guess no i do every morning it's my that's what i do i said okay perfect this is where we can stick on your new habit so if you want to do coloring why don't we stick it on there said what do you mean i said okay so next to your kettle you remember it's in the uk right so people drink tea here as opposed to i think you guys are more coffee drinkers i think um yeah for sure you put the kettle on i said okay so before you go to bed the night before i want you to make sure your coloring book and your crayons are next to your kettle i said it's really important okay fine so this means she comes down in the morning puts a kettle on and straight away she sees coloring book and crayons she's she has a visual trigger to remind her to do the behavior so we're making it really really easy for her so she makes a cup of tea she sits on the kitchen worktop drinking the cup of tea and just for five minutes chaos is going on in the house with her kids but she sits there colouring in right and i'm not kidding you mark within two weeks her migraines went down by about 50 and after six weeks they had almost gone apart from on really stressful days now that's amazing i'm not saying it happens in every case like that but the point i'm trying to make is she thought she didn't have time for it she knew she wanted to she knew it made her feel good but once we started applying the rules of behavior change which most people do not apply they think oh i'm going to fit it in when i've got time no no no there's a system and if you follow the system you're increasing your chances of success made it easy stuck it onto a habit gave her a visual trigger boom she does the behavior and it really can be that simple mark so you get the people listening who are struggling with stress maybe that might be one that appeals to you but if it doesn't don't worry there's all kinds of options because i really believe like you marking personalized health i i don't think we should be forcing people to do things they don't want to do out of all those recommendations in mind choose one just choose one right choose one and do it at the same time every day that's what gives the impact i give people the example of a tooth brushing mark right so a lot of people think oh no i can't do it every day but i'll do a one-hour session on a sunday so i say okay when you brush your teeth do you brush your teeth every day i'll try it with you mark so do you brush your teeth every day yes morning and evening 98 of the time okay maybe 99 99 you do it okay i'm guessing you do it for two minutes roughly in the morning two minutes roughly in the evening okay so you know that if you give your dental health four minutes a day then you know over the course of your lifetime you're going to be looking after your dental health yeah but when it comes to everything else we think no no we've got to do a big one-hour session twice a week or three times a week and i'm saying hold on a minute is your mental health is your physical is your emotional health not also worth the same as your dental health is it not worth a little bit every day and i find this is the approach that works for most people now as someone's listening to this and they go yeah but i find it no problem to work out for an hour four times a week fine and many people have asked me i said okay fine so that means that you've already got that locked in but are you also doing something for your mental health and also something for your emotional health or what i call your heart's health and often people find this framework so useful because even if they're already doing one of them it helps them identify their blind spots and go like you know someone uh in fact the lady who helped me design the book is a really beautiful design she said wrong it was really incredible i thought i was really healthy because you know i did pilates regularly i'd go for a walk every day but i realized i neglected heart health which is all about connection and since she got the book and this is eight months ago she now every evening she started off phoning her mother for five minutes and now it's moved on it's sometimes it's a mom sometimes it's a friend but she knows that human connection each day is critical and she's found actually as many people have that actually once they get that right they start to engage in less unhealthy behaviors let's say sugar alcohol often mark we engage in those behaviors because we're not getting this nourishment in our hearts we're not connecting with people so we're missing out so we try and fill that hole in our hearts with another behavior whether it's cookies ice cream alcohol uh binge watching netflix going on instagram for four hours straight we're looking for we're yearning for that connection that we're missing and that's why this heart health piece i think is the most important piece in the book i put it at the end because i thought and you don't mean you know your cardiovascular health you mean your emotional heart yes it was a bit of a play on words again so well you know the way i talk about it as i say when i say heart health well i've been an md i went to edinburgh medical school um and i was taught about the heart i was taught that heart the heart is a muscle it pumps blood and oxygen around the body now that is true right that is the physical kind of function of the heart and the heart muscle the heart's got another meaning hasn't it heart's got a meaning that poets and artists and songwriters have been waxing lyrical about for years and that's what it means to be a human being that is our hearts connecting with other people and we know if this sounds a bit woody for people we've got hard science on this you know there's good research now showing that the feeling of being lonely may be as harmful as maybe smoking 15 cigarettes per day right being lonely or if you uh the feeling of being alone means you're gonna die fit die you're 50 more likely to die earlier 30 percent more likely to have a heart attack or a stroke right being lonely and not having that human connection is a really important part of health and i guess in these sort of pandemic times when a lot of our social connections are being taken away from us it's become even more important so there are actually more health snacks in this section of the book than any other section because that's the importance i give to this section uh you know there are gratitude games there that people can play there are little writing exercises people can do for themselves but i've got to say ma my favorite one and i think you already dig this one as well and it's one that i try it's something that i call the tea ritual in the book um and the tea ritual is one of the five minutes heart snacks for health and it's to do with connection so i'm married i've got two young kids now it's very very easy for us to be so busy that we're like passing ships right yes we're present in the same environment we're doing what our kids need to do we're working we're sort of eating together or whatever but we haven't really spent any quality time together so the tea ritual and again it's not just for couples or partners if you have a flatmate um in your apartment it can work as well but it's just the commitment is for five minutes a day my wife and i will put our laptops away our phones away we'll make a cup of tea and the the what the goal is that we we're gonna without any distractions ask each other how we are now mark some people may be thinking you're a medical doctor to me like why do i need to hear the stuff about relationships from you first of all i'd say you don't have to uh it's the first first thing i'll say but the second thing i say is i really feel from what i see time and time again this lack of nourishing relationships in our life the fact that we're so distracted now we're not being present with the people that mean the world to us i know that feeling you know i'm not perfect here i sometimes will you know pre-code i'd walk in sometimes i'm still sort of trying to answer emails or get back to someone on instagram instead of being present with my wife and my children it's very very common and i found that when when we put the kids to bed and before we do anything else mark we sit down in the kitchen and we make a ritual around it's a nice green tea pot we make some mint tea and we sit there the requirement is we do it for five minutes now i don't at the end of five minutes say hey babe look we're done five minutes like it's time to get back on my email no of course sometimes the five minutes leads to 10 leads to 20 leads to 30. but the commitment we make is five minutes because why five minutes underpins this whole book is this five minutes is a small amount a period of time it's a small amount it it's small enough that even the busiest person feels that they can fit it in and if you don't have five minutes you've got to really look at your life and what's going on it's long enough where if you do it consistently you will experience a benefit and i can tell you what when my wife and i do the t ritual and we fell off in in at the start of lockdown we stopped doing it and it had an impact on our relationship and it is amazing five minutes of dedicated connection time really knocks on to all these other areas so again if people are listening to this or they're in a relationship it could be with your children it could be with your children are you inside all day with them and they're around great but have you spent some real quality connection time and mark i i've done a few instagram videos on the tea ritual and people love it yeah right and i honestly think mark 20 years ago you wouldn't need two medical doctors like us talking about this i think that was inbuilt into culture two years ago you come back from work you don't have any more work to do till the next day you have your dinner and then you'll connect over the evening we it's only now in the modern era where we finished it and then we're back on our computers we're back on our emails we're back on instagram and i'm not having a go at that i'm just saying just be mindful of making time so yeah i'm just trying to give people exactly i agree i mean i i found the same thing my wife and i you know we're both busy but you know i decided to have a special ritual called what's up below and we have coffee in the morning we sit down on the couch we sit down outside and we just deeply ask what's not on the surface of all the normal stuff like how you doing on the service but like what's up really below in your life what are the things you're dealing with make you happy make you sad make you cry make you laugh like what is it that really is up for you and so that what's up below they're very it's very much like how are you doing and it's a coffee because it's america but it's a very powerful tool to stay connected and to stay connected not just on a superficial level but on a deeper level it's a different form of nourishment i mean we need heart food we need soul food we need body food we need mine food and all these healthy snacks these health snacks that you talk about are really so simple it's such a simple idea and and we think we you know health has to be such this onerous thing that we strive towards that we always fail at that makes us feel bad about ourselves that then we sort of in this vicious loop and and your book is really feel better in five this book is really a way for people to understand how to break that pattern break that cycle in little incremental steps and tiny habits as bj fog calls it yeah that allows you to really succeed and then like you say you don't just stop at five minutes talking to your wife you might be talking to her for an hour about about whatever's going on that really matters to you guys you know you can do this with kids as well like people often ask me mark what about children if you know we're not we're i'm in my garage at the moment which i just converted to a podcast studio and you're the first person who's actually talking to me in it so i'm very very honored that it's you um but just there i could see my kitchen on the wall next to our fridge my wife me and my two kids my son is ten my daughter seven we have our own charts we've got our own mind body heart charts so they have chosen their mind snack their body snack and their heart snack and we all tick it off each day so we have a reminder in our kitchen of us doing our daily habits and that's something you get the gold stars so i had those when i was in kindergarten i love those yeah but you know what it works because the kids do it not because daddy's told them the benefits of a breath practice which i've tried to do but i'm not convinced that that's making the difference now they want their tick on their charts right and that's a key part of behavior change success is celebrating your success right so we don't do this so let's flip it let's flip it for a second mark so what do a lot of people do when they feel low or depressed they've got chocolate right they borrow chocolate and what happens they feel good so they're wiring in the emotion when i feel low i have chocolate i then feel good that is very powerful because for a minute for a minute yeah but what it does is it wires in a very powerful behavior sort of loop which is next time you feel like oh i could have chocolate because that's going to make me feel good for a minute and i'm saying we do it for bad habits we don't do it for good habits so you want to spend a few seconds luxuriating in the feeling let's say you've done a workout right and there are i think there are about ten five minute workouts in the book none of which require equipment none of which require gym a lot of them are super fun feel good about it go oh you know what i was feeling bad before i've got loads of energy spend a minute to celebrate that success a great way of doing it is ticking it off on a chart that's why we have these charts on the wall i think actually on my website there is a a mind body heart chart that people can download and print off for free if they you know you know if they don't want to get the book just print off the chart put it on your fridge choose one mind snack one body snack one heart snack and each day take it off because what's that what's the link to that chart i should know this stuff but i don't dr chatterjee.com feel better i think it's got to chat forward slash chart i think cha rt i think that's where we put it um but i'll i'll send it to your team so you can have it in in sort of in the in the show notes whatever but but it really does work and you know i say it works for kids market works great for adults as well you know we like to know we like to see a visual success visual um reminder that we are being successful then let's say you've had a really bad week it's been super stressful let's say work's been tough you can still look at that chart and go you know what 21 times this week i have done something proactive for my physical mental and emotional health and you know what that feels good it helps to balance out all the stresses that we have in life at the moment so you know i know it sounds simple this stuff works whatever you want and if you if you're listening to this and actually you don't have a health problem you just want more focus you want to improve your athletic performance or you want to improve your longevity what i did mark because i appreciate some people like a bit more guidance because i do say look choose the ones that you want but i realize with 40 or 55-minute recommendations some people will get stressed out trying to choose just three they'll go no i want to do that one and i want to do that one so what i did is i created this useful 22 uh 22 different things 11 things you want more of 11 things you want less of and i have pre-chosen a combination of three for you so if you if you want to take thinking out of it and you want to say hey i've got anxiety tell me what to do i have chosen that what i consider to be the three best health snacks for anxiety if it's depression i've chosen for you if it's type 2 diabetes i've chosen for you if it's longevity if it's better concentration better sleep more energy it's sort of like personalized health snacks for you yeah it is exactly because i what i don't know about you mark but one of the struggles i have when writing books and i'd be interested to know what you what you say to this as someone who's written a lot more books than me is i like you believe in personalization of any recommendation yet when you're writing a book it's kind of you don't have the luxury of seeing that individual in front of you so you can actually tweak it so it's always a challenge for me is how do you allow people to make personalized choices in a sort of prescriptive book um and the way i tackle with it here was i said you can choose but if you don't want to choose here are a few things to get you started i mean how do you approach that well i think it's just a really incremental for me like i i um i just like to get people start on something and and if if people have what what i call any p syndrome which prevents them from changing nep stands for not enough pain right so they're they're not motivated enough to actually create a massive change which can create massive shifts in health right so i do people put people on for example on a 10 day reset literally a dramatic change in diet and lifestyle for 10 days to see how different they can feel because if you just do one little thing it might take longer to see the changes happen but it'll happen so i think it's very personalized and i think your your book is just so brilliant in the personalization for all these different health conditions you've literally pre personalized all these different health snacks to have the maximum benefit for those particular issues it's just to try and recognize that you said everyone's different right some people will love the choice some people go cool i get to choose that doctor's not telling me what i need to do i can choose but some people will find a choice overwhelming and they will want you know they'll want a bit more guidance i'm trying to say you know basically like i do in my practice personalize it for the individual but you mentioned the word motivation mark and i wonder if i could just expand on that a second but yeah really think motivation gets really misunderstood in the in in the sort of context of behavior change when we're trying to improve our health so people think motivation is enough now i don't think it is unless you have enough pay as you just highlighted you know if things are so bad yeah sure i think motivation is enough or certainly it can be enough for the first few weeks the first few months but for a lot of people it really isn't and when you look at the research it's really interesting motivation goes up and motivation comes down what bj what professor paul calls it is the motivation wave right so it comes up it goes down it comes up it goes down the biggest mistake people make is that a lot of people make their their new year's resolutions or their health plan at the peak of the motivation way they're assuming that they're gonna be super motivated yeah i'm gonna go to the gym five times a week i'm gonna meditate for half an hour a day i'm gonna go for a walk every lunch time sure and for a week or two when they're feeding that motivation they do it and they feel great but then what happens is that life gets in the way they've had a bad week at work or you know they've got to take their kids somewhere and they're back late and it all falls off so they go from everything to nothing but when you understand that motivation goes up and down if you make your plan your health plan or your resolution if you plan for it at the bottom of the motivation way then it means you're always going to do it and this is why five minutes is so important because it motivation and ability to do something um are sort of they work together right so if you're really motivated to do something you will actually do a behavior that's very hard to do right you will if you if you have you know you've seen that over and over again in your clinic just as i have if people are really really struggling they're very motivated they will do hard things but when you're when your motivation is low you will not do a behavior unless it's easy to do and that's why that sort of underpins this whole program is it's easy so even when you're tired and stressed you can still do it as i say all the five minute workouts they can be done in your own clothes you do not need to get change if you want to get changed sure but remember i do my five minute workout in my pajamas every morning i don't get changed into gym gear right now some people like getting changed into gym gear and that makes them feel good that is completely fine but i'm saying don't let that be an obstacle here in the uk mark there's a um there's a sportswear company called sweaty betty for women right and i've met a couple of patients before who unless they have the latest outfit from sweaty betty they wouldn't work out it was their excuse not to work out and look i'm not i i'm sort of very compassionate and understanding when i hear that because people i think have been conditioned by society to think we have to look a certain way uh when we work out and i say i had this one of my podcasts i spoke to a guy called sanjay rawal about running and we were chatting about these tribes these hunter-gatherer tribes who run who run every day um i love sanjay by the way he's a good friend he's brilliant isn't he it's absolutely amazing i think it's one of the best to listen to on my show so far because it was so he's so incredible we had a really lovely conversation what was what was really striking is that these running tribes okay they don't have one outfit for living and one outfit for running and one outfit for working out no they've got the clothes that they wear and if they're living they're living if they're running they're running but they wear the same thing and it just made me think how far removed are we from a basic human right which is to move our bodies each day that we think we can only do it when we have the right you know sweat uh sweat removing t-shirt and the right shorts and the right shoes and we need yoga clothes and running clothes and weight lifting clothes and tennis clothes and biking clothes i can't keep different shoes for each one yeah if you like them and you have them that is great but what i'm saying is don't make don't let that be an excuse you can work out everybody listening to this can do a workout in what they are wearing right now and you know one of the simplest workouts in my book is what i call five minutes of dancing right mark so a lot of people think working out or moving their body is not for them okay so most people like to dance especially if people aren't watching them right so if people are at home and if you want to get moving but you don't know where to start i challenge you go into your kitchen or your living room or your bedroom pull down one of your favorite tunes for five minutes and have a little boogie that is movement that counts right it doesn't have a special name it doesn't have a special class you need to go to or spend money on but you know what you'll be releasing endorphins you'll be improving hormone release all over your body you'll be burning off energy your mood will be elevated and you know if someone's feeling sad put an upbeat tune on and dance to it it is almost impossible to feel low and anxious when you're dancing to an upbeat you you simply can't do it and my favorite one for that is happy by feral williams i just love that song yeah exactly and so again how do you do it make sure on your phone if that's where you listen or if you have you know i'm a bit old school i've still got a cd player in my kitchen that's what i like but make sure you've got tunes ready on hand when you're feeding down or you think oh i'm going to do my five minutes of dancing now here is my playlist what you don't want to do and it's the same with workouts you don't want to go okay it's workout time now or it's dancing time which tune am i going to choose today because then what you have is you can spend 20 minutes scrolling go oh now i'm not sure i'd answer that one yesterday oh no before you know it the time's gone you haven't done anything or by the time you've worked out whether you want to do yoga or pilates or strength training you know what that procrastination takes time and energy that's why i say when you're starting this plan choose the workout you like and do it every day the same one because it's you know you know you don't for example brush your teeth one day mark right you don't on a monday go i brush my teeth today and on a tuesday go hey i brushed my teeth yesterday so i'll tell you what today i'm not going to brush them i'm just going to floss them and then on wednesday you go i brushed i've flossed today i'm just going to rinse the the reason it's a habit is because you've done the same thing every day at the same time and you can absolutely do that with health and mark i know for some people this is a new way of looking at things they've been conditioned into thinking it's got to be hard it's got to be difficult and if you're listening to mark's podcast and you listen each week to all your amazing guests and you have implemented health changes and you're doing great with your health fine i'm not asking you to change anything i'm not saying go to this five-minute plan if you've already got something working that's great but there's many people who will be listening who have tried over and over again and it's these people really that i wrote the book for to say you know what health is not as hard as you think it is health can be fun health can be enjoyable health can be something that helps you to get more out of your life and actually beyond that this plan will help you change the identity of who you are as a human being when you start sticking to these three house facts a day you take on the identity of someone who prioritizes their own health who takes their self-esteem and their self-worth seriously and that will impact your health but it will also impact your relationships it will impact you know your your your interactions with your work colleagues will impact how you parent your children and all i'm asking people is five minutes three times a day that's 15 minutes a day it's all i'm asking and i say at the back and frequently ask questions i say if three health out today is too much you know what fine start with one right start with one but do it every day at the same time yeah right and that's the key that's how you build a habit and you can think it's too easy you can ignore it you can go for that one hour four times a week and if that works for you great i am really really pleased for you i promise but if it doesn't i honestly would urge you to give this a go so ryan this has just been so brilliant and it's it's it's broken down some of the challenges that people have around behavior change and around sustainable behavior changing about figuring how to motivate themselves and also addresses the myth of willpower because willpower is not something that actually works most of the time you can white knuckle it for a little bit but you have to actually make these things part of you on a daily basis and this marriage of medicine and behavior science and the science of how to create health with the science of how to create healthy behaviors is just brilliant i've never seen it put together in such a beautiful simple way as in your book feel better in five your daily plan to feel great for life it's just a tremendous book i think everybody needs to pick up a copy today and before we close i'd love to ask you what are your health snacks every day and how do you implement this to support your own health and well-being yeah so mark that's a that's a great question so i've got the foundation sort of built into my life now so i do now mix and match a little bit but i can only do that because i stuck to the same thing at the same time every day for a prolonged period of time so what do i normally do right so i will do my mind snack first thing in the morning so i would start off and i did this for a good year or so for me it was a breath practice so i would start every morning before i did anything before i made my coffee i would do five minutes of breath counting and i found it a really wonderfully relaxing way to start the day then i would go into the kitchen i would make my coffee and during those four or five minutes while it was brewing i would do a workout so uh i initially was doing body weights but i actually do also keep some dumbbells in my kitchen so i will mix and match that but essentially until the beeper goes off for me to plunge my coffee i am working out now here's the truth mark sometimes the beeper goes off i plunge the coffee and before i drink it i'll do a few more so often it'll be 10 minutes that's true um but then i get to then sit drink my coffee i normally read something positive there just to make me feel good for the day and really enjoy and take that moment but then in terms of the heart health snack i actually do two a day okay i do two a day now and one is the tea ritual that i mentioned so that's when the kids are in bed my wife and i will sit there for five minutes and we'll connect for at least five minutes although we fell off it a little bit during lockdown that wasn't failure mark that was a reminder that oh when we don't do this our relationship isn't as close as it is when we do it so again reframe these things that wasn't failure that was education that was like ah this is important we need to get back to that but the other thing i do is a gratitude game and i don't need to find time to do this market particularly the lockdown because i'm having my meals every evening with my wife and my two kids so over dinner we play a gratitude game and we all go around ask answering three questions what have i done to make somebody else happy today what has somebody else done today to make me happy what have i learned today and you know it's a beautiful game it helps connect you with the people around you it helps you feel good because you're reflecting on the positives but again mark just to hammer home the same point about behavior change because it's part of our evening meal i don't need to find time in my day to do my gratitude no i i have dinner every evening with my family right i don't need a reminder to say rongan look you've forgotten to have dinner you've got to have dinner tonight no i'm having dinner so that is now one of our hearts health snacks is one we do as a family that's beautiful i really hope by sharing that mark i'm not saying people have to do the same one but i like yuma i'm a busy guy i've got lots of juggling balls whether it's weekly podcasts seeing patients writing books uh caring for my elderly mother who lives nearby whatever it is i'm like many people super busy but i do prioritize my health um and and mark i'll also say and i know this because i was a carer for many years before my father passed away seven years ago why i moved back to the northwest of england is to help my mum look at him he had lupus and kidney fair he was on dialysis i know that there will be many carers listening to this mark who will say i don't have time for myself i'm i'm caring for someone else i'm looking after someone and i really hope and i have seen this in the uk that many carers have found this really helpful for them because they're like oh i couldn't actually i can do that yeah having been a carer and still to for my mom i am now again um i really want to give that message of hope to carers that you can afford a bit of time each day to look after yourself not only will you be helping your own well-being but it will help you look after whoever you're looking after yeah in a more relaxed stressful way i mean the beautiful message of your podcast in your books is this whole idea that if you feel better you can live more you can be more engaged in the things that matter to you and the relationships that you care about in the work and your purpose in the world and your own well-being and it's it's such a simple idea but it's so powerful and i think that we neglect ourselves in the service of our greater missions or other people or whatever excuses we have but you in your book feel better in five you've created literally hundreds of ideas for people for these health snacks for mind body and heart and and there are thousands more that people can create that aren't even in the book but the whole idea is how do you design your life for success and you're saying basically it's not by saying i'm gonna run you know an ironman marathon next month it's by doing five minutes three times a day for mind body and heart it's just such a simple beautiful message and i'm just so honored rangan that you came on our podcast that you've shared this incredible idea which is a real breakthrough in medicine i think it needs to be implemented across healthcare and it's all in your book feel better and five which people can get everywhere they get their books on amazon you can go to the website for the book it's called dr chatterjee that's d-r-c-h-a-t-t-e-r-j-e dot com fuel dash better dash in five so basically feel better and five with dashes in between uh and check out his podcast feel better live more podcasts which is fabulous everywhere you find your podcast uh thank you for your incredible service and work and bringing these ideas to humanity and being such a good human being in the process so grateful to know you and and be part of helping you share their story about making these incremental changes that make all the difference thank you so much mark thanks for having me well thank you so much everybody if you love listening to this please share your thoughts and comments tell us how you've made those little incremental changes that have changed your life we'd love to learn from everybody share this with your friends and family on social media subscribe wherever you get your podcast and we'll see you next time on the doctor's pharmacy you

Channel: Mark Hyman, MD

Views: 23,296

Rating: 4.8663101 out of 5

Keywords: Dr. Rangan Chatterjee, Dr. Mark Hyman, doctor’s farmacy, behavior change, bj fogg, daily habits, covid 15, stress eating, caretakers

Id: H_PKQfzON3E

Length: 72min 36sec (4356 seconds)

Published: Wed Sep 02 2020