Simone Liebster (2018) on "Facing the Lion"

you good morning my name is Greg Peterson and I am one of the cofounders of the Robert Jackson center here in Jamestown New York and we've just had a wonderful discussion here this morning regarding the Barnet decision West Virginia versus Barnette of 1943 we have some of your friends and colleagues here who are listening in it will be joining as we proceed this mis'able your morning we have Judith gobitis close who's here we also have Louise Blanton and we also have Murray Barnett Snodgrass so we have in the United States Supreme Court we go by this case so we have the daughter of Lillian gobitis and for three years they had Kingdom Hall which Jabba's witnesses had to attend we have we have Louise Blanton for that and then we have a rebar net whose family and she was part of the case which ruled that it was unconstitutional to have the mandatory flag sold and we're just thrilled you could join us and I'm going to sort of just start the comments because I know you have a story which of our audience can't wait to hear about your life story which is in the book facing the lion as you hadn't experienced we can only wonder about but you actually lived it so I just want to just start by again thanking you so much but at the same time for our audience maybe you could put into perspective a little bit about your background and your religious background I know your parents are originally Catholic and if you could talk how you became a member of the Jehovah's Witness yeah that's and moment we were strong Catholics and we had a case in the Catholic Church about misbehavior the priest with the boy and my mother came to the conclusion that it was impossible that God would accept the prayers of that priest so she decided to see if there is another way to get close to God at their time in a tree where two [Music] brothers who came from Switzerland in those days they were selling booklets she bought three pokers and it was sufficient for her just heard of preachy haven't seen any congregation and seen no one but there what she read she knew otherwise other people had to to get it so she started not freely without any contact and my father was opposed but afterwards she was reading the Bible to me at one morning she was reading to me live Ten Commandments she had promised her husband that she wouldn't teach me so she never told me she just was reading but she was really with centrist she would come back on certain words of the reading and I returned that there was not to have any images I went up and destroyed my images I had order and because of that my father said I have to get after that I have to still get her out of that religion because her daughter is being influenced I was seven years old when it happened but due to the destruction of my aura father realized that he had to do something so he overturned the book creation in three days time he said to his wife you found the truth so my parents got baptized that is my father my mother first in 38 my father in 39 my mother sister aim for the end really 41 I was 11 years old it was a time and the Germans came explain a little bit about the can you explain the school system that you were part of was there a public school system that you attended during your early years it was first public schools but but by the time the Germans came I was switching over to a higher Berlin it was a higher class as there was another school but everywhere was a tied Hitler when the priest came in when he went out when we met him in the street whenever at least I would say at least three or four times a day we had to face it a little and since it is a visual greeting you can see here someone was committing by lifting arm I always try to turn myself so around that there was not a night of the teacher site and that's when good for a whole year in between my father got arrested because he was known as a witness and I continued in school and then suddenly one day I was outside the school didn't see the teacher didn't see rules and that was it then came the tries very hard trials first in the school I had to go with a piece of paper from class to class in which it was centered go on cannot give any teaching to anyone we just complied in the rules of the government this was a warning and very little on the button intercept this was to be presented in our purchases esteem unarmored that was a terrible test because a it's trust I was supposed to happy but you know translations were not so Nancy's know whenever reacted because I did not hang but the city [Music] superintendent of the city came on Saturday he made it terrible talk about the traitor and the most dirty speech Nazi speech now he would do the same type of words and he said to try to recognize himself as to get out so I stood up I didn't give me a name he tried to go up in front of the cars 45 kids and yet the papers there and he said if you don't great sale route just a little paper you have to leave the school and Monday said that everything I give you five minutes and just think it over and it was true five minutes they were standing among the slat form will will sir and there and the watch those five minutes where absolutely I could not speak I could not talk that could not ray I got stiff as he will see in my mind you want those papers and go vote you know those papers and it loads and then one day I did okay I snapped the paper and there went out and when I came out science I had them wonderful feeling I still feel in my heart that was a victory for me and we'll send of the ice schooling I had to go lower school in the lowest cold I got beaten it that was another kind of director creature very much [Music] because I had to go to the kiss top my head I went our examination by the Gestapo they wanted to make it Ranger out of you that I would give names of one of the witnesses but it's true they knew everything I was in underground activities so I knew no the Brotherhood well not many German really handled the situation wonderfully and after that I had to appear in front of the church German judge who decided that I was a very nice child very polite but corrupted by the teaching of my mother and that's why I had to be taken away get force okay in another place so I came in a rotational home and that home and my own in Germans and those kids were on of a household's hit where the parents had serious problems with behavior among son so that place we had absurd night to talk to each other punishment for talking was terrible absolutely terrible it could go to a whole week no evening meal and three had hard hard work it was non-stop but it was quiet there was never a highly trained coming up with us they sent you don't deserve the privilege of hailing Hedra because I emo home which sadly for me which was a good thing and my words in the top place for Sevilla module in our working behavior that was my goal my mother had said they have to know that journalist witnesses have a superior teaching well in our teaching as they want to make us believe so my goal was to be a very very strict in everything I never got finished finished and conscience the press and of the world of the end of the situation between my mother was also arrested so a lot to me we're not arrested Sudama so some wonder if I could just to put into perspective your mother and father were could convert it to Jehovah's Witness they were baptized what happened to your dad was he like arrested at the factory I expect a clinic estaba of secret police came to his working place he was a he was drawing a patent for printing material they asked him are you Thomas ruthlessness he said yes he said come along with us so he had to take a bicycle and go home the car was pretty scar behind so I were put in the street could see that he was getting arrested but this happened I was in school and mother was out of the house so we didn't know anything and I took her in the afternoon they came and had mother on the cross where an interrogation starting your from the tool until 5 o'clock constantly asking after watched our meetings other people and names and I listened that was in the next room I listened to that and that's where I got my teaching for myself when it happened a year later I knew remember I had answered so I got could use the same thing for instance they would said do you have the watch dog she said yes so the drugged up and said where did you get it from where she said you couldn't cut it from Switzerland as long as support or was oh no we don't get it anymore because of orders goes they couldn't do anything with it and when ster said you have secret meetings she said but secret meetings what do you mean anybody can fail follow me they come along and see where I go there's nothing sacred in my life see this way of answering very concrete very politely has given me a big lesson on how to handle the relationship and they would swim say mother said when you have to answer talk right choose a face of your persecutors see the face look at them don't you look away above their heads see the Angels so they won't be influenced are they mean faces they will believe that you will get them but you see behind any chance and this but I did all the time so your father is pleased arrested and placed in a concentration camp and there he stayed really until 1945 is that correct did you have any contact with him at all did you be able to write a letter is there anything I had the right to weren't a meddler per year for his anniversary he had a right to right you could write letters to Sicily well the sister of my mother she was a mate and she could get a truth or to much difficulties and she would get letters every tremont 12 lines it's all and of course nothing special but mother was sending him they could send food packages and mother was make very thin copies of the Westone very own secret paper wrote it he couldn't put it between two cookies and that's how father was kept informed first happens you know brother ah Rutherford who died but don't know him I could get it but I wrote him a letter the letter she said that the present is fought and that means gone if German the end of the sentence and then she says since that man is gone we prefer to canola soup there was a trade was super gentle curve and so on she only wrote where we love the cannot soup so much and that's all my father cut the connection the truth offer that diet and don't you know I was taking over Simone during that time period you were with your mother until 1943 when you were then placed in a reeducation house what was happening at home with your mother what happened to her we after you left to go to the re-education location 18 hours she went to the police and she said I don't understand why - but I still free - fathers got the girl is gone what is she doing in freedom so she cut arrested and trying to Kendal Richter she was pleased to the camera yes but it was not a regular concentration camp it was a temp the Nazi opened it is us to do corrective pants Asian people to get them on a straight way but it was similar to concentration your free education test that tests your faith were you confronted by the parents the foster parents of the reeducation location to try to dissuade you from your beliefs as a Jehovah's Witness no no and I think it was due to my mother because when I was arrested my mother came along she insisted they were the first ladies didn't want it but my mother insisted and then when we arrived she was standing there and the main persons of the place said was there what is that lady and they said it's attracts a mother so she called her in and she said I respect a mother who comes and brings us there's the kid over here and I mean if the mother had had a long interview with them telling her exactly what happens because I could feel a certif elect from the bandleader and the second one teacher which second hands person with four of them she was very much against insurance and she was the one dance one survey was humiliated me one speak against you my song just isn't in 1945 the there's liberation of Europe the war ends June 6 1945 and you're the concentration camp where your dad was located was liberated in May of 1945 tell me about the reunion at some point your mother and you are connected with your dad what was that like had come to the place before I was free she had to wait there um you would come as soon as the French army came they liberated mean we came home and Twitter don't father was missing and the Red Cross this my father was considered as being disappeared was not death but disappeared didn't know and we thought he was dead and it took a long time it accountant accost before he came home to these 50 days after the liberation and when he came home he was deaf he couldn't hear anything he didn't recognize me because that has been four years and he had terrible nightmares because in the mask and when the agency there is no chosen they were they had cannibalism and since he was sick he was he could not stand up anymore he was afraid that they could tried to cut something left on him to eat so I he when he came home he had terrible nightmares we need the doctor care to get him back on this was not easy that must have been so difficult for you to see your dad and the condition he was in and hardly recognize you because you grow now since the last time you saw at least four years at last how did you finally get him well let me ask a question all three of you your mother you your dad as members of Jehovah's Witness again your faith had been tested what was the lesson you learned through this terrible time period with regards to your faith Jeremiah is a powerful God and you could feel his approval all the time my father went wrote in this letter it's a piece that we have in our mind the true selves around the right way because that piece even they were crying and had pains there were difficulties but the inside piece was so strong that when you did reach over was a heavy content with us so we never never never had the slightest idea that we should have done it differently because it was just standing up further truth that gave us the strength for the next one it it was just the opposite of what they have enemies thoughts the any resulted breakers don't in reality it lifted us up because insight relationship result was reading in your wonderful book facing the lion the chapter dealing with vengeance or forgiveness and you tell the story about the opportunity your mother had to really arrest the people who denounced her can you tell that story yeah she was colored by the French police because they had found a list of her of the traitors and they told to mother you give you signed a paper and then we arrest her I also said no you do your job but I I'm not signing it but as I said she deserves it she said this is your law you have retired I do not turn in and that lady was living in the same house is immediate part of our house and she became tensed she had no one anymore no one to take care of her and she was in those days cancer was a terrible situation because people would just rather I did by looking there was no medicine nothing and it's my mother that's washed her every day they brought her food change her bed and into sanitary I don't know how long she did that but for quite a period of time I had a hard time to understand why mother was asked was to eat this and she said a Christian does not retaliate do you know that she is very responsible that she didn't go a wrong way because she no better it's loading us to judge people and they became a medicine you know or my life I realize that people do offer things doesn't mean that they're mean they're just misled and that helped me a lot because I never suffered when somebody was hurting me because I always thought maybe the person there is no better so this this lesson has really really shown me what it means not to retaliate love our children love not retaliation I'm gonna read I'm gonna read the passage that's in the book for the audience because it's so powerful how you've written it and you talked about that gentleman who had once threatened to kill your dad with an axe and then later on brought fruits to you and fruit and vegetables from his garden on your table why even your father who had been threatened with an axe by this gentleman agreed and that you were constantly amazed at my parents ability to overcome resentment they never paid back evil for evil or sought revenge but the greatest lesson was yet to come the wife was bedridden with terminal cancer as you mentioned and those days treatment was sparse a terrible stench came from under her apartment door she had no house no family and no friends it wasn't an easy task to wash her and change the soil sheets yet your mother did it twice a day for months on end that's an amazing story as you you're here today with a special commemoration of what occurred in the judicial system here in the United States and I wonder is this there a message that you might have Simone - we have three special guests here or even a question you might want to ask of Louise or Marie or Judith anything that you want to share with them at this point because you went through much but yours was a flexible case - I listened to them three days ago - some of their expression sent to me at every area with Jimmy and I realized that for children standing up a day after day was a big challenge know what I wonder it's how they record on it do they still think of a page from painful situation or do they see that it was a victory for their home good because it took time to to get that freedom back it was not easy took a long time in for children it may be hard to grasp how important that is but due to their exceptional steadfastness of them and their parents and our sort of brothers who made schooling freedom that this was possible it is sure was blessing understand what they did what they suffer that road to freedom for children was pillars and I think they must have been cheating on them during their lives in would any of you like to comment are what she just said her comment was essentially us students were tested with your steadfast and steadfast this towards your belief and I'll ask the baby a rephrase the question by saying you know what was it that kind of kept that long-standing steadfastness you want to start first Elise integrity determination and we benefited by their faith so I think it was Jehovah's way of giving us the courage to Bothwell same example we read events fiction to hold her when she went through it makes not nearly is she makes me feel like she was too so much Bradon allowed because she had so much more to suffer that we did in but I appreciate when they did over there so you are an exemplar your life is a message to an awful lot of people and I have a roomful of students and members of the public who are here too [Music] obtain some knowledge from you and I know you give lots of presentations is there a message Simone that you want to make sure that everybody gets a chance to understand I always trust that it's essential for children because mostly with children to get to the facts of the reality and get the information and once I have the information and try to find out what is their own reaction and find out why we had this reaction because our life was depending on what remover is demanding of us and usually the children do not follow especially any religious idea so when I talk to the children I really stress the need of getting to know what has true values they have to study the research make history and find out what is their true then I'm not supposed to teach religion the class so I turned around I do not speak about the viruses and so on and so forth I go right down to the fact that they grow up now the genome and they have they're going to have responsibilities and they need to know what the decision is going to bring out if it is a good one our a bad one I am stressing a lot of the necessity children are well-known witnesses to find out that what has happened in Germany is not the beginning of the evil the even began long time before if they make history they can find out that there was persecution in New York terrible that's right America is made up of European people who escaped because of persecution and I have to get through it to find out what it's their responsibility to get this information because I'm not speaking to a group of protists I'm speaking to all scientists you conclude your book with the wonderful world of words of a Marcel suitor who inscribed in your poetry book hope is the greatest treasure if a man has lost everything he still possesses hope why did you conclude your book with that phrase and he wrote especially for me he wrote this at the moment when he had to present himself to the draft and he knew that it would mean death he came home with goodbye promise that we will meet in the New World sit stay faithful and we will come together again we meet so this council he wrote just before leaving has become my mentor it is hope if we take if I lose everything my parents I has my life or was not killed the princes - rewrote from Java this is why I could that in that book because Mark said dick had beheaded and today it was bad and then I got the news I was already in detention even so it hurt me to know that they are tight I was filled with the with a deep deep I know what happiness is not the world a deep feeling of massiveness become your example beginners been able to go to death without any regrets and this is the way you want to go it has just become my my direction and at the same time I met the burning place where they killed the Czech resistor Jonas and when I realized that that story came together I said those men have been faithful unto death this is possible because they were only humans and they could stand nation there is no reason why I should not be able to stay faithful just follow their example you're amazing ladies and gentlemen Simone leaves there I you provided a sense of guidance and tremendous hope for everybody and what a guiding light and so I on behalf of all our participants here they're all thumbs up and thanking you for participating and drawing an appropriate closure to a wonderful event here at the Jackson Center so again thank you so much for taking your time thank you [Applause]

Channel: RobertHJacksonCenter

Views: 14,400

Keywords: Simone Liebster, Jehovah's Witnesses, Nazis, WW II, concentration camp, Judith Klose, Marie Barnett, Louise Blanton, Robert H. Jackson CEnter

Id: N93DmPoIH_s

Length: 40min 26sec (2426 seconds)

Published: Fri Oct 26 2018