A true sense of purpose Doesn't come from what we can do to get comes from what we can do for others I'm an idealist you [know] I want to live in a world in [which] the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired to go to work Feel safe when they're there and come home fulfilled at the end of the day I Had a good career [in] advertising And I completely lost my passion for what I was doing it made me feel like my my job was stupid The Martin Luther King to Apple computers. It doesn't matter those are the capacity to inspire Every single one of them regardless of their size regardless of their industry thinks acts and communicates from the inside out [they] all Start with why when you have the y it gives you this Calm confidence that when people are yelling and screaming at you what you should do you [go]? I'm good at I'm on my path And so you've never seen a Tm when you see the Golden circle Or why and the reason is because I want others to take it. I want others to build on it All of those techniques used to build a company in the 80s and 90s. They're not working anymore. What happens innovation suffers? engagement suffers productivity Suffers Trust suffers So ok you bastard ceo who thinks all the stuff that I talked about is craziness? And you don't have time to make these changes. [we] don't have time. It's a war [out] there I know guys are go to war and I'll tell you it's not a war. You know you tinker with money Start with why, what is your why? This is a concept I heard about years ago, [and] I watched this man talk about the why of a business Before the what and the how and I was [fascinated] and I've been thinking [about] the why of London real for years, and I've always thought [about] the whys of certain businesses and the why it really tells you so much about what they're about and Ultimately we buy things and buy into things because of the why and much less Because of the what and that [is] the message of Mr.. Simon sinek author ted speaker Just all-around Pretty fascinating guy, and we had really one of our most epic conversations ever on London real and it was a true honor [to] finally get to spend time with simon and he told us about his journey and and Much like me. You know. He lives his journeys His books are about his life and the reason that he started with y is because he had a successful Advertising agency in New York with blue chip clients doing great business making great money and yet He was unhappy He was horribly depressed and he wanted to find out why and so he started with his own why and he gave this talk [four] years before he was ever a ted speaker and talked about what is your why and This morphed into a book and this continued his journey Into where he went to Afghanistan? And when he saw what was [happening] there with the military and the [armed] [forces] he was inspired to write the book leaders eat last Which is all about leadership, and how we need to embrace this new technique in our modern times Or we're really going to have a lot of trouble down the line Simon spoke so frankly with me about his own journeys about Technology and how it's affecting our children and Millennials and also how he's such a great great public speaker And we weren't really deep here And I'm just so happy we were able to produce this [emmy] conversation with an incredible man Who up to now? You would have really only seen on the stage and so I was so just honored and grateful to get this intimate conversation with Simon and Please spend the time and watch the entire piece because it will really change your life, and hopefully ask you. What is your why? you know why are you really doing it and let people know that and then they'll really buy into everything you do and It's got me to think what is our why here at London Rio well our? What is definitely more than just videos with great people and great? Conversations are why is because I want more from this world I want more from you and me and I want more from myself. [I] want the best I want the best version of me on this limited time I'm here on Earth And that's what London real is all about and that's what our Academy is about and the thousand members that are around the world that get together and push [each] other to be the best versions of themselves to hang out with the best people and to stop playing small you know there's not a lot of time and It's time [to] go big and time to take some risk and you know that's really what we're all about and here's a little bit More about that The intrapreneurial journey it can be a lonely road. [I] push myself in so many areas, but But you know you can't do it all yourself [the] thing about the academy is it's like look you have the ideas you have the ability you have the skill and [you] have the The sort of ambition for yourself, but when you have a group of people pulling you forward [it's] so important accountability is what's missing from most of the programs or Any gurus or any [men's] internet mentor that I had before [I]? Want to get some accountability? [I] wanted to make myself accountable to a group to you the reason we started the academy is because I felt like We were doing these amazing talks like we'd have a peter sage episode or Dan Payne episode or a [kalla] or someone and you get? Super inspired and then YouTube stops and then you go back to your life And you know make any changes and it was just like what it felt like what are we doing? You're designing your [life] right the good times are now and in a few years. You'll look back and say wow that was amazing Think about the academy is it has so many different sort of layers to it I think your web seven are so awesome the way you broke it down and the style of your teaching is is pretty awesome. [I]? like [to] [feed] When I have to motivate myself I kind of look [either] struggling and getting over those those struggles So I actually follow Daily defeat, best [facial] [wood], [baby] Sort of [face] [book] aspect of it the social media aspect of it as in creating a profile With your goals your dreams Everyone's on the same vibe, and we may be at different stages in our journeys, but everyone's in the same page in the end there everyone's really trying to push themselves and and Building the best you it really really resonates with me And the fact that I'm committing a small amount of money and the fact that I'm actually trying to interact with those people Means that I'm invested and means that I will [keep] it for the long run You have to be serious about yourself and what you want to achieve if you're serious about yourself This is going to be such a fantastic platform London Real Sponsored by bulletproof This is London real I am brian [rose] my guest today is simon sinek the ted speaker at nog refer and author best known for popularizing the concept Start with y which became the second most watched ted. Talk of all time You are the author of two books Start with why how great leaders inspire everyone to take action and your newest book the New York times a wall street Journal bestseller Leaders eat last why some teams pull together and others don't You speak around the globe teach leaders and organizations how to inspire [people] and comment for the New York times business week in ink magazine Simon welcome to London. Thanks for having me It's a pleasure to have your [an] welcome home to the uk you spent time here [you] went to South Africa I think you came back and now you live [in] the states [what's] it like to be back? And what's it like to live in so many different places? Well, it's always nice to be back I mean, I have family here, and I don't feel like a tourist when I come here even though. I may do touristy things There's a there is a sense of familiarity which I which I always enjoy Like going to a childhood home. You know So that's great and growing up all over the world you know it's [very] funny people ask me the question Oh that doesn't bother you don't really have roots anywhere and the answer is I don't know I don't have anything to compare it to and that was my upbringing and And it was pretty great lived on four continents by the age of ten definitely Added to who I am and how I see the world for sure But yeah, I'm I had a great [upbringing] no complaints and when you were getting your [education] here at one point you almost went to be a barrister and went into law that's true. Didn't that's true Do you ever think about that inflection point in your life? No hahaha, [I] I graduated college in the states and then came back here and with the idea that I would become a barrister and live the rest of my life in the uk and half a law degree in I realized I didn't want to be a barrister didn't want to be a lawyer [and] decided to leave law school and Coincidentally was dating a girl who happened to be studying advertising. She was an American exchange student and She's like you should look at advertising. They went Sounds good, and then sort of set myself on this path of going to advertising and decided to do it back in the states I went back into the [states] and went into advertising and and the rest is history You know so it's funny how the the world works? I would have thought you had had some urge or some fascination with advertising or marketing your whole life ah? No, no, no, I mean, I like the idea I like the idea of the boat I used to describe it many years ago as the big sell You know I like the idea [of] putting together an argument that would the words I used back then would convince somebody that they should choose this over that and For me the big sell was as true in a courtroom Which is why I wanted to be a barrister not a solicitor [as] it was in an advertising I had to put together an argument to convince some of them someone was guilty or not guilty I had to put together an argument to convince somebody that this is a better than that you know so to me it was Exactly the same thing, and there's a public speaking component in the barrister world as well because you're presenting right arguments, right? well You good at that when you were trying to be but I didn't know I didn't know it wasn't something that I grew [up] doing [I've] always been a behind-the-scenes person. I like being behind the scenes like whenever I did like [theatre] stuff in school I was never on the stage. I was always behind the scenes in fact I resisted the front and even now I don't consider myself a front of the stage person and Don't really Crave it quite frankly it it it is become part of my life, and it's it's part of the way. I spread my message But I'm still I'm still behind the scenes person in fact in fact the work that I do now even now that I'm proud of stuff is the stuff that people don't know anything about and don't know that I do and There's not on any website, and I don't talk [about] it. It just happens. You know it's it's all the [behind-the-scenes] work that I'm generally my happiest because people know you for the big Ted talks the big books But you do a lot [of] work with corporations charities is a lot of different government politics military right, and it's all behind the scenes Take me back to 2009 MMM puget sound bad microphones flipchart A Three-letter organization that at this point probably [not] that many people had heard of the people in the know had But it wasn't a global phenomenon you get up to talk you know for 18 minutes Did you know how big of a platform that could potentially be did you reward it? What's happened? So ted Ted was already starting to become a thing And it was still a thing of prestige, and [so] when I got the invitation to do it. I was very honored It was still it still had prestige, and I'm under no illusions that I'm very lucky. [it's] the timing because as you said Tedx was a very new thing and There weren't that many Tedx events and there were that many Tedx talks if I had done my talk today, you know 25,000 talks and [1,500] events a year or whatever something ridiculous There's no way that my talk would have gained the popularity that it that it did There's just no way just [what] been buried in the masses so 100 percent really okay, so I got [very] [lucky] with that [and] it was an honor to show up and I gave [a] talk to a room of 50 people 60 people something like that was pretty small and and Yeah, I mean the microphone. I was the first speaker of the day and So my microphone the microphone broke in the middle of the talk, so I'm changing mics But you were smooth on that change. I mean what am I going to do? [yeah]? Goes long and somebody has your new mic you take it right? I've been speaking on that message already for a Few years I'd have really been giving the start with my message for three years before there was any ted talk any book But it was always [long-form] was always an hour an hour and a half And so I'd already had practice being on a stage Never done it in 18 minutes that that was the part that I was nervous about not the actual talk and I guess practice [I] knew what to do on the microphone brooke Can you talk about the Genesis that idea because you where we went into the marketing space and in the advertising space? But then you read a bit disillusioned yeah but you were cognizant enough to Recognize in yourself that there was there was something missing in your why I was worried if you can talk [about] that part of your Life yeah, my story is kind of not that different to a lot of people to be honest I had a good career in advertising and Was working on new business pictures and stuff for the company. I work for and I lived through september 11th in New York and You know september 11th affected many people in different [ways] and one of the things [it] did to me was it made me feel like My my job was stupid You know like I remember trying to come and my office was really close to ground zero And I remember coming back to work when we were allowed to because the area was closed for a [few] weeks Remember going back to the office just thinking what value am I providing here like might this industry and my job are Ridiculously stupid you know and so I already had an eye on sort of doing something else And I had an entrepreneurial spirit, and I considered myself more of a marketer than an advertiser anyway and so I quit and started my own business with a partner and Went to do something that I thought was in my vision. You know not theirs, and it went really well for three years I mean when I say [well-meaning] we survived It wasn't it's never like that. You know it was more like that, but but we did okay You know we over 90% of all small businesses fail in the first three years And we mainly didn't we didn't so I mean like that's that's like that we joined a very elite club. You know But year four was very different for me. I had already brought out my partner and I completely lost my passion for what I was doing and I didn't know why and people say stupid things Do you like follow your passion you're like? I'm doing the same thing, and I don't love it anymore like do what you love like same thing, you know [so] I was confused as to what it was Plus I was embarrassed because superficially my life was pretty good I've made a decent living we had an amazing Clients like we had Blue chip clients that we had no business having in our little company [we] did great work well respected by our clients and yet I didn't feel it and so I didn't I was very embarrassed by the fact there's like you know, I'm unhappy You know it's like everything looks just fine You know so I didn't talk about it And I would say that all of my energy instead of going into building my business all of my energy went into Pretending that I was happier more successful and more [in] control than I actually felt Which is a pretty dark space yeah, but you're the leader of that organization So you have put that so you put on this air that yeah? You got everything under control [and] your family asks you how you how you are and everything's under control And you know I would go to business conferences to learn how to like build my business And that actually make me feel worse because I'd have all these people standing on the stage telling us. How we should? Build our businesses and all I could hear was everything I was doing wrong [as] opposed to what I should be doing and so it actually made me feel even more depressed And it wasn't until a good friend came to me [concerned] about me she saw that she saw that there was something different. [she] [was] worried for me and I remember the conversation. She was very nervous sort of a coming to me the like you know trying to approach basically challenging you like your life is not as you claim it is and It really allowed me to admit that I was unhappy And that gave me the courage to find a solution the fact that I had a friend in my corner who was there that I could cry to and Say, I don't know if I can do this gave me courage to find a solution And I was very lucky there was a confluence of events that happened around the [same] time A long story short I was able to discover that this natural occurring pattern Based on the biology of human decision-making that every single organization the planet Exists on the same three levels what we do how we do it and why we do it Everybody knows what they do. I knew what I did some people know how they do it I could tell you what made me different or special or stand out from my competitors but I couldn't tell you why and So I realized until I was able to articulate that piece that my life was out of balance everything was out of balance So I was obsessed with this thing called the why Figured out how to find my why restored my passion to levels I'd never experienced before unbelievable Did what anybody would do or does when you find something beautiful you share with the people you love and that's what I did So I shared it with my friends and I friends started making crazy life changes and they would invite me to their homes to share With the people they loved and I would literally it all started I would stand in someone's living room in New York City And people sit on the floor and I would give this talk about the why that's how it all began and People just kept inviting me to do it, and I would help people find their wife or [a] hundred bucks on the side You know that's how started. [so] there was never a time where I said ah this will be my career Yeah, this this I can make my [millions] with this thing you know this thing has commercial. You know Value it was never it was never that it was always something to share for free or at least it wasn't a commercial of academic exercise was always something [dished] to be shared because it had value and that was it and so that's how I that's how I Went on and it's really funny my wise to inspire people to do what inspires them [and] I remember I remember exactly where I was sitting - I had one of the biggest decisions I had to make in my life. Which was the first test of my [y] after I'd had discovered it Which is I've got this magical thing that clearly has value do I copy write it writes protect It keep it for myself put on TM every time you see it anywhere in the world and and literally sell everything and own at all or Do I look for opportunities to just share it and give it away whenever possible And if my why is to inspire people to do what inspires them there was no choice? I only had one option and so you've never seen a TM When you see the golden circle, or why and the reason is because I want others to take it I want others to build on it. I want the idea to spread. It's not mine I simply put the concept into words it belongs to whoever wants [to] use it and the reason it has spread is because that was a strategic decision many years ago that it should spread you have probably people saying you've [been] a copywriter hide all that and You were like you're crazy. Yeah, I don't know It's probably been shared more by the fact that you weren't trying to control it [yeah] and and and I'm proud of that, you know I I tend to think that my life is the tip of an ICeberg [meaning] no matter what I've been able to accomplish or do There's so much more to do still You know I'm an idealist I Have a vision of a profoundly different world than the world that exists now. You know I want to live in a world in which the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired to go to work Feel safe when they're there and come home fulfilled at the end of the day that is not the world We live in now is the world I want to live in and that is the world I want my friends and family [to] live in [and] so all of [my] work is Committed to building that well well I know I'm one piece of a jigsaw puzzle [and] it's going to take a lot of us who are all working on different things my job may be to preach Like you know when you do a jigsaw puzzle [you] put the box against the wall and then you do the jigsaw puzzle Well my job is to point at the box and remind people what we're what we're building That's my piece of the puzzle [you] [know] I'm a preacher, right? [and] others have play another role your job is to help disseminate the messages somebody else's job is to build the company based on those messages You know somebody else's job is to demand that their leaders provide That thing so we all have a role to play and we all put our pieces down until we have the picture formed so no Matter what I've accomplished. We're nowhere [near] that Picture, so I always think of myself. You know as like I said that month my my work is tip of the Iceberg I still have much to do but the one thing. I'm [really] proud of is that the concept of [y] is now in the vernacular When I started this no one ever referred to their [why]? And nobody ever said that company needs to know [they're] y or doesn't know they're y and people who have no idea who I am? And journalists who are writing? Who've never read my work or seen me speak are now using that vernacular that to me is I'm proud [of] that because what it proves is that the message resonates? is that people have taken it and made it their own and and use it as the currency as the Vocabulary of what they're trying to communicate Which previously? was unclear and so most of us are out there doing things that we probably shouldn't be doing and That we don't really enjoy doing so there's massive inefficiencies of [sherrill] and that if we can get these people Aligned to find out what they want to do and then believe in it with all their passion then everything [just] can go up 10x 100x thousand x And here's the folly. It's good for business. That's the joke that. That's the joke which is People who know [their] why people who are working for companies that align with their [y] people who feel like they belong? People who feel trusted in busting people who feel that their work is valued and valuable [work] harder or more productive and more innovative. They are much better employees, and the joke is when we offer out people that those companies Invariably outperform their competition over the long term almost always Costco significantly outperforms ge over the long term the Heil General electric has half the Stock value of Costco over the long term ge stock value looks like this if you go from when Jack welch came into power Right back in the in the in the early 80s literally It's a roller coaster sometimes you're up sometimes your [dad's] an absolute roller coaster when you look at it But they were hailed because of the steep spikes And you look Costco that for years the analyst community Criticized because their stock price was flat and that they spend too much time and too much money investing these are the analysts words Investing in their employees and the customers and ignoring their shareholders, and if you look at it and annualized a quarterly basis it the stock price certainly looks flat, but if you pull back over 30 years This is what ge looks like and this is what Costco looks like Ge needed a [300] billion dollar bailout in 2008 that's not a stable company. That's not a good company. That's not a company That's built to last that's a company built for short-term gain at the expense [of] human beings right Costco where they prioritize people? Was the steady beautiful upslope and unbelievably stable and when bad things happen in the economy little bumps, okay? so if you invested a dollar in ge The year that Costco went public which is about December 1984 which so jack welch had been in office about three or four years you Would have made six hundred percent on your money in ge today if you invested a dollar in the S&P You would have made Six hundred percent of your money, and if you invested a dollar in Costco, you would have made twelve hundred percent on your money [2x] ge [2] x in a much more stable fashion that's called Investing that's called stability that's called a well, led company that's called a company built to last Right and in variably those companies always Prioritize their people now what do you see from the [outside] when you see Costco? can you see it in a minute when you look at the language they use or Culture employees is it is it very stark difference or visit 30 if you work there? You feel trusted, and you trust the people you work with you don't walk around with the sensor You come from banking you know nobody trusts each other You walk around waiting for somebody to stab you in the back yeah meeting Jack Walsh complained about the finance arm You know when you buy this course He said they were even worse yeah than everyone else they just wanted to get paid but but the Joke was he was the one who pioneered shareholder supremacy He was one of the ones who pioneered rank and yank he was the one of the ones who pioneered using layoffs to Balance the books so he built the culture he got so he can not complain that's exactly what he built right a Company built for the short term it's kind of congratulating love the management techniques before him right I come in I do this we charge this right and the problem is is you know? Ceos used to be compensated based on how well the company performed now. They're compensated based on how well the equity performs That's screwed up Right, so of course you had to invest in your employees and your customers because that's how the company performs now if you announced layoffs the stock price goes up hmm figure that one it figure that one that so the fact of the matter is The theories that were proposed and pioneered and popularized in the 80s and 90s were done for a different time they were done for short-term gains in years of prosperity with relative peace and A kinder [gentler] cold war you know it was a good time. It was an easy time Let's be honest, and so we probably could afford to be selfish I mean that's how we acted yeah, we dismantled glass-steagall and things like that. You know Well those times [are] gone. These are not relatively stable times the competitive landscape is very different The economy is very different and all of those techniques used to build a company in the 80s and 90s. They're not working anymore and Companies are struggling more than they they they used to it, but they're still applying the same old techniques And so it gets harder and harder and the stresses go up and up and the and working these companies is More and more difficult just from a stress standpoint or stability standpoint. So what happens innovation suffers? engagement suffers productivity suffers trust suffers, and you know cooperation suffers a Few years ago [the] economist ran one of their multi-page you know specials in the middle of the magazine and It was all about the decline [of] innovation in the world and they spent a whole bunch of pages making the case that Innovation is under Klein [things] like fewer patents have been filed and the ones that are being filed are of smaller value you know and You know they made their case that the innovation is in decline globally, and then they attempted to explain why and they made all kinds of guesses things like the internet things like Globalization things like the speed of business etcetera etcetera etcetera not one single word not one talked about people not one So my question is who's coming up with all of these ideas If you want to know why this decline decline in global innovation is because why should I take a risk because innovation requires experimentation? An experimentation requires failure, it's in the definition, so if there's a decline in innovation Why a should I give you my great ideas if there's a risk associated with them in an environment? where fear is is the norm or at least Lack of Trust and if and and if I don't have ideas I don't have anything to inspire me to come up with ideas because I'm spending so much time Focusing on the short term that actually don't have time to figure out how to advance a cause or big ideas It's just not it doesn't even factor into my daily thinking And I'm too busy trying to you [know] build my book of business or what I'm trying to do So we're not fostering that innovation on so we don't foster an environment Right over the startups are different because they can do it themselves and [help] themselves But otherwise, we're not were they but they start out with an idea they started out with an idea right right? Yeah [and] for their existence is the idea I was at a company recently and I heard a things the cFo and [he] stood up and said our priority is [Number-one] priorities are innovation and efficient see And I was like Good luck with that Because ain't nothing efficient about innovation. It is wasteful You know you have to throw so much money into rnd you have to try things you have to failure to try again [you] [know] that's just how it works nothing you think the wright brothers built one plane And it flew [jib] any idea how many crashes they had before [that] plane finally took off? It's not in the design it's in the trials That's not efficient at all [it's] often slow and it's sometimes costly, but if [you] [don't] willing to pay for it Then you can't be innovative the [trials] an error and sometimes product failures that you have to go through So you can pick one? Sometimes their line sometimes it can be efficient But you can't demand at both those fact both those metrics grow simultaneously And so I get a kick out of this I get a kick out of the fact the very very smart people Who are leading or running? I'm not sure they're leading you can't lead a company You can only lead people, but you can run a company So very very smart people who run very very big companies And they've got all sorts of degrees, and you know credibility that They don't see that efficiencies and the Innovations are [not] They're not compatible. It's oil and water you know sometimes they can be mixed if you shake them up I guess I want to get into here. I get a kick out of it. Yeah I know I can tell you're [very] passionate [which] is fantastic I want to get into your second book in just a second leaders eat last and you made a few allusions to that at the First Ted talk you know the very end you were talking about Martin Luther king and how people arrived Not for him, but for themselves yes, and there was some seeds in there of that next book yeah and I want to ask you about that, but what happened to you after that ted talk was [it] a big pop or was it just kind of Awareness of your idea that have been happening, or did that change things for you and your future, so I? Was very [lucky] to get a book deal? about the same time Slightly before the Ted talk so they actually came out at exactly the same time they both came out at the end of the year of 2009 right and The Ted talk started to getting popularity on YouTube. Which is what made the ted people take notice And at one [point]. I think was the [highest-ranked] Tedx talk on YouTube That's I think I reached that point and so they put it on [ted.com] in may of 2010 I Didn't know that they were going to do that that I found out when it happened. [you] [know] right because at that time Tedx talks didn't go to Ted calm probably and Tedx was very new it was very new and it was very rare and the quality as You pointed out the microphone brought the best Which is funny though, I remembered your ted Talk from years ago is a ted talk, and it's funny as I looked into it more I was like Oh, it's a bad mic and bad this but sort of funny enough to when I first saw it It was the message that hit me yeah so they saw it they Decided they were going to put on Ted calm. Which gave it much broader exposure obviously and then the numbers started to grow Ironically as the views went up Book sales didn't it was really sort of very funny the book did its own thing and ted looked at something they weren't related but I think what started to happen was like the demand started to grow for me to come and share my ideas to come and speak and that allowed me [to] have [a] to make a living Spreading the [idea] that I wanted to spread so I didn't have to do consulting anything in them anymore on the side and get you Welcome that transition. Oh Yeah, okay, sure and you you closed down your advertising agency in the meantime, or yeah I mean, I was on to sort of drifted away, okay, and so this was a welcome change [I] What an amazing opportunity to be able to share an idea? That I'm passionate about that others are passionate about that inspires other people and hopefully inspires change I mean what a what a great honor to be [given] that bully pulpit And so yeah, the ted talk definitely created a demand for me to come and share those messages, and I'm immensely grateful for the you know to the ted folks for that opportunity when you look back on that top now is Anything changed about your concept of the golden circle, and why how what or do you ever go back and think okay? I would change this or has anything evolved There's not many people that disagree with what you say But I've heard people say that they would throw in a who in the center of your a golden circle [yeah]
And I'm just curious if your views have changed and what you feel about that Who piece sure so I've heard that before it people's I mean you forgot a piece You forgot who I didn't who is the sum total of all three of those pieces? Only when all three of those pieces are aligned will we know quote-unquote who you are right because if you are doing things that are misaligned with Your your your cause your purpose your why then we'll say to you. It's like. I [don't] know who you are anymore right if you are a Person is driven by x and you start doing [y] You know people will not [know] who you [are] and you cease to be trustworthy reliable or predictable, right? [remember], this is the biology of the brain [that's] it those three levels correspond with the evolution of the human brain So I can't just arbitrarily add or take away pieces it is what it is But who you are or who a company? Is is the sum total of all three of those pieces so when all three of those pieces are in play and aligned? The who is clear? when they are not the who is unclear, so it's it's it's [built-in] it's it's there [its] built-in [but] to answer your question [you] know there are definitely? Nuances that I would like to have said differently that I would have added or taken away But and I think every author feels the same way your your book is never the minute it comes out You're like all right. You know. It's that you just accept that that just goes with the territory but but no, I'm still a devotee to to the purity of the original Idea and it serves me and how I live my life and Sort of managed the business as well, and it what's also really an aside is we don't actually talk [about] the business I talk about running the business, but we don't actually run a business we've never had a discussion inside our company as To what's good for the business or what's bad for the business should we do this for the business the only discussions? We ever have is this right for the movement should [we] do this for the movement? Will this help the movement that's how we make decisions? so the y goes front and center of how we make decisions for the company because we think of ourselves as as Being responsible for the the Growth [of] a movement not necessarily the Growth of a company One of the big things in that talk was the law of diffusion of innovation I hadn't really heard it articulated like that again. This is seven years ago now How has that? Morphed over time is that something you still talk a lot [about] and what was the reaction to that part of that talk? So that so it's not my idea. It's a guy by the name of Emmett Rogers who wrote that down in the 1960s [and] What I did with it was reapplied it It was used you know Jeffrey moore talked about it as it relates to the growth of [technology] But I looked at it in terms of just [the] growth of [we're] spread of any idea I just took it as a social phenomenon so I sort of reapplied it But I'm a to me the law of diffusion is a religion for me You know the idea is not to worry about the majority if you want to have a an impact In the majority if you want to have mass-market success, mass market stability or long or [mass-Market] acceptance of an idea you don't actually aim at the majority you aim at the early adopters and when you reach 15 to 18 percent market penetration It just tips it is the tipping point Social Phenomenon the reason being because the early majority will not try something until somebody else tries it first and So when I say it's become religion for me. I mean it. So we're very good at Figuring out discerning who's an early adopter and who's majority so for example when somebody says to me? Convince me why I should I should bring you in to talk to our company convince me Why we should use any of your ideas inside our organization? [my] answer is don't Because you just identified yourself and you say convince me you just identified yourself as being a part of the majority and It's not that I think that you're a bad person I just think that you're coming at a different time and your time is later right you'll come along later So I'm looking for the people who go, huh? This is good. I mean, [it's] not perfect, and it's good. You know I'm not [100] [percent] sure how it works but Probably worth it there there's probably something there [that] we [should] pay attention to would you like to come and Work with us. Those are the people I want to work with and so we're very very good at saying no thanks to people who demand us to Convince them and we're [very] gracious and grateful to those who invite us into to come and help and that doesn't mean we only preach the converted we work with some pretty dysfunctional companies, but But what we know is the leadership? cares about trying to do the right thing and That's very appealing is that good advice for any innovator to just not to pitch those people that are on that? [front] part of the curve that want that are ready to adopt and save the rest of them for when they're in the cycle later Yeah, I mean It's much more stable way of getting an idea to spread the problem is it's not you can't predict as to when it'll tip over that's the problem people want certainty that my Three-year plan is that by this date. It will I mean if you have enough money you can buy Popularity, but the minute you stop spending it it goes away You [know] like we know if you invest a huge amount of money in advertising You'll see sales go up, and if you stop advertising I'm talking any advertising bad advertising when you stop spending the sales will go down. Well you paid for that now How [would] you do it without spending the money? You know how would you do it? So that when you stop doing anything remember? I don't have a publicist a publicist [I] [didn't] never had one through that any of the book and I never neither of the books. I've ever been reviewed by any major press. I haven't right The reason the Ted talk spread the reason the books spread is because somebody else told somebody about it That's by design right because we've for 10 years we've been obsessed with the early adopters and so if the work has spread at all It's because we always put all of our energy in all our efforts and took I would much rather get [paid] nothing to work with an early adopter then get paid a ton of money to go work with somebody in the majority, okay, because I'm not in it for the return a minute for the impact and so You've [got] to align your strategy accordingly, and so I love early adopters I love early adopters and But like I said when somebody says how long is this going to take the answer is I [don't] know. It's just like exercise Consistency is more important than intensity. You can't go to the gym for nine hours and be in shape It doesn't work that way But if you're gonna jump the gym every single day for [twenty] minutes You will get into shape the problem is I don't know when I know I know it will take more than a week I know that I also know that if you're doing if you're going [everyday] And you see no results in six months or a year you're probably doing something wrong I know that the problem is I don't know when I just know it works. I just know it It's like a relationship when someone falls in love with you You know it's not the big events remembering their birthday and buying the flowers and valentine's day that they fall in love with you It's the consistency. It's the little things. It's saying good morning to them before you check your phone It's getting them a drink from the fridge when you get yourself a drink from the fridge It's acknowledging them when they talk to you It's turning off the TV and turning your body towards them when they want to have a discussion It's little things that you do in a consistent basis that doing any of those things once or twice does nothing That eventually I don't know when they'll fall in love with you, and you will fall in love with them That's just [how] it works, but I don't know the timing and so the law of diffusion works. The same way it absolutely works it Absolutely works the exact timing of when it tips is unpredictable, and if you're okay with that It's gold and if you know you're why and if you know you're why it gives you the confidence to stick with it So knowing your why is the equivalent metaphorically of knowing that exercise works? You don't have to be a scientist or a doctor to know that it works Right we have a sense. That's the right thing to do right [and] I know that if I stick with it it will work I just have that internal confidence right even though I don't see it, and I don't feel it even though there's You know I can't see any difference from a day-To-day basis on my body, right? It's the same thing when you have the y it gives you this Calm confidence that when people are yelling and screaming at you what you should do you go? I'm good. I'm on my path um It might not be working. I remember I mean in the early days of this when I would started to understand the power of the y, and I was really starting to And this thing called the law of diffusion and realized this had to become a religion [for] me I had to [be] obsessed with this because this was the way ideas would spread I remember going for dinners With friends of mine who were much more successful entrepreneurs who are making much more money than me whose businesses were much better structured than mine and they would tell me in sort of Stern to you know borderline insulting ways that I was an [idiot] and Look at them as the as the case study and how much money they were [making] and how well they were doing and how badly? I was running my business and sometimes it was unnerving because sometimes Like I was bootstrapping this thing. I mean, I didn't have two pennies to Rub together But I still believe that what I the path that I was on was the right way to do it for me not saying for everybody for me and It worked [and] would you articulate that to them at the time? I couldn't he couldn't write. I wasn't able to write I wasn't able to It's interesting because so many guests that I've had on here are doing what you're doing is in there working on that diffusion But they don't necessarily know the theory that you do right So they're doing a lot of the things you're doing without knowing why they're doing them right now And this is a great thing and it's why These entrepreneurs have success But the question is how does it last and very? Often what [happens] with these companies is as soon as they die or quit or retire? the company Putters along for a little bit and then invariably Nosedives it goes out of business, or it gets bought or merged. Whatever it is so Until you can articulate the theories then how how others supposed to know what's in your gut? I think this is the value of putting these things into words do I have to put my wine into words no But what it [allows] is for those on my team to make my cause their own because we all believe [in] the same thing simply Because I put it into words it allows those we work with to share in our cause and it allows us to build the army and I don't have to be the person at all In fact, I don't need to be the person [you] know The this thing will only work because my vision the one that I articulated with the beginning of the show Probably won't come to life in my lifetime Probably probably will never see it happen that long. Yeah. It's possible it might take it I might get there, but what I expect to see is momentum [I] expect to see that the needle is moving I expect to see progress towards that I expect to see More and more companies adopting these theories and experimenting with them and inventing things that I couldn't even conceptualize myself I don't have all the answers and I think it is moving I think [we] can see that look it's embarrassing that I have a career, right? Like I talk about things like trust and cooperation there should be no demand am I from my from my message but the fact that there is means it's Missing and people want it so I'll take [that] as an opportunity yeah Five years later after that publication you wrote leaders eat last Why that book why then? And is that something that had been brewing inside of you obviously I felt like there were seeds of that in that [top] [no.9] But you know I don't know that. I don't know the whole of it. Yeah, so I [never] set out to be an author I'm not a journalist right So I Honestly believe that I was a one-trick pony. I used to joke [that] I was a one-trick Pony It was a good trick, but it was all as one trick [and] that was the why and [people] call me the why guy and I sort of I? Never wanted to do one thing in my [life] but I figured if I was going to do one thing was if that [was] a good thing you know and I never thought I'd write another book ever But the good news is is that I'm on a journey [all] of my work is semi autobiographical It's my journey [and] so the first book was about my loss of my passion and how to regain my passion and have a sense of purpose in my life and in my work that's what I wrote about and Then as my journey progressed the new problem Emerged Which is I? Had trouble trusting people. [I] had a couple of instances As my work started to get better known I basically wrote a manual of how to talk to me. That's what start with why is and So I'd meet people. I tell there's one specific person I'm thinking of where I met him an event and he sounded just like my kind of guy He's amazing guy he talked in idealistic terms and believed in my [work] and and we became friends [and] it from all superficial Standards, it looked like a friendship He'd call me on the weekends When we were in the same city on business we got for dinner [and] telling me about its failing marriage I mean that's what friends do right. We confide in each other right, and he said I'd love to work with you I said sounds great I like working with my friends and so we started working in one of his clients or invited me to meet one [of] his clients And he sent me a contract great, and I went [through] it and Offered a couple changes to have a couple terms no big deal, and he got furious How dare I and I never heard from ever to watch the rest of this fascinating interview click on the link below and go to London real Academy.com there you can sign [in] with your social media log in and watch the rest of the episode for free Along with all of our episodes on London real my webinars and all of our premium content all located over at London real academy.com So click on the [link] below you'll be directed there, and you can watch the rest of this fascinating interview And I'll see you there, but simultaneously I was hanging out with folks in the [military] a lot and I was doing a lot of work with the military I kept meeting people who
