Sid Lowe - Rodri The Teacher & Spains Future Superstars

[Music] hello and welcome to the resty football with me galica and on this special episode um owing to the final that we've got coming up tomorrow we have the Spanish football correspondent for the guardian host of the Spanish football podcast and friend of the Pod Sid low how are you Sid all right Gary how are you it's been a a busy few days isn't it Sid thanks thanks for doing this um what's the feeling at the moment in Spain about how the this team has performed so far well I mean obviously look the the starting point is a a huge amount of excitement uh a real admiration for how they've played because it's not just that they're in the final they've won every game without having to go through a penalty shootout it's that they've had a run and they've been talking actually about this idea of possibly winning a Euros um by beating four world champions because of course they they had Croatia who of course weren't well Champions but they've had Italy France and Germany and England next um but I also think the the the kind of the context this is that no one really expected this um I think there was a belief within Spain and probably outside Spain as well that this was a side that could get to the quarterfinals that if the draw was kind could get to the semi-finals but might not be quite good enough to reach a final I I think pre-tournament when they talked about the the favorites and and again I suspect this isn't just inside Spain I suspect this is true everywhere else there was that idea that probably France and Germany and England were were the were the kind of the top rung of teams and then maybe Spain were in that next collection of teams alongside Portugal and perhaps one or two others um and Spain in that sense I think have not just pleased people but I think they surprised people um and and one of the things that's happened as well is that there's been a if you like a kind of re-calibration of the quality of Spanish players because part of that analysis pre- tournament was about this idea that well how many players do we have in our team that are genuinely amongst the best two or three in the world in their position and I think mostly they looked at rodri and they said well he is but maybe no one else is I think possibly they overlooked daning caral just because he's a right back and maybe you don't talk about right backs and I think obviously what's happened in this tournament is the emergence of players like Fabian who they knew was good but goes under the radar a little bit and in particular of course the two the two wide players we'll come to those surely but it was interesting you see they they thought you know they get to a quarterfinal and if they get on the right side of the draw but they very much got on the tough side of the draw didn't they they' beaten the host nation and then they've beaten France I mean two of the Giants of um of world football yeah and having come through the group they came through as well um you know there's a group that I know look in the end it's true that Italy it turned out wer weren't as good as we thought and actually maybe we should have foreseen that because Italy's tournament record despite the Euros you know of not qualifying over the last seven or eight years is actually pretty poor and Croatia I I suppose in a way maybe they were a team that at some point time was going to catch up with them but it's still true that you looked at Spain's group and you thought well that's a group where potentially they may not even come through the group now obviously when the top three all go through depending on how many points you collect when the top three all go through I don't think we should have ever doubted that Spain would get through it but there was a doubt about whether they would win the group which of course with hindsight it might have been an easier draw had they not won the group um and so you've got this combination as say of Croatia and Italy followed by those two that you mentioned who knows perhaps it's been good for Spain although I don't think we've had the same approach from Germany as we had from France and certainly not the same approach from Germany and France as we had from Croatia and Italy but we've seen a Spanish side I think they demonstrated a versatility that maybe they haven't had in the past and that's been a big part of the focus uh certainly in the first three or four games maybe lesser in the last couple that idea of a Spain team that doesn't necessarily want possession for its own sake that does want to be a bit more direct that maybe isn't the Spain team of before now you look at the last two World Cups and you know it might be that I I'm kind of looking back too far here but it's very definitely been part of the discourse around Spain that you go to Russia and you have more than a thousand passes and you lose to the Russians on Penal in the first knockout game and then you go to Qatar and you have I think it was over a th000 passes attempted not quite completed but 950 or something completed and you don't go through against the Moroccans and there was a real sense post that world cup of saying right we need to twist Ticky Tacker a little bit we need to do things slightly different now I'll be honest with you I thought that part of the discourse around that part of the way they talked about that was actually done to kind of justify a change of manager rather than being a reality and in the last six months or so we saw a Spain team that I don't think were quite as different as they were saying they were but once DEA fente had decided absolutely we are going to play both of these Wingers we really are we're not going to play one of them we're going to do them both and I think we really have seen that the stats bar out I must confess I I haven't seen them post quarterfinal but I think going into the quarterfinal I think Spain were in terms of possession stats at the Euros I think the 11th team and this is a team that we always imagine be first and first by a very long way it's not the only change though is it s because even if you look at the the team now there's there's hardly any players from Barcelona and Real Madrid in fact against France I think France had more players from those two teams um than than Spain did and that's a that's a big shift yeah it is and I think that links us back actually to what we were saying that that in in part when you sort of analyze have we got the best players in the world your starting point from a Spanish perspective whether you mean it to be or not I think they you know you almost can't help it it's look at Madrid barcelon said well they haven't got Spaniards therefore Spaniards aren't the best in the world now that got challenged a little bit I think in 2008 and 2010 because of course because of the Spanish players playing in the Premier League so you had Silva eventually obviously it took a while for him to go you had CES and you had Fernando Torres and you had Sav Alonso and and a couple of others who off the top of my head I can't remember now um but I I do think that that's true that this is a team from a from a different place actually funny enough in in the press conference on Thursday Danny Vivian was asked about the fact that this world cup is being watched and enjoyed the TV figures show this in the bass country traditionally obviously a place with a independent kind of mindset uh where people haven't always followed the Spanish national team and he said well there's nine of us in the team so of course they're watching us tell me about Luis De Fenty we know he's been successful at Youth Level uh with Spain and now he's taking over the national side what's his background where does he come from well I mean his his background and he makes quite a lot of this is is a little town called ad which is near the bass country but well let's not get into the debate about which you know what is the greater baset he played for Athletic Club he was a fullback who who stood out as being competitive and and being I think quite intelligent rather than necessarily being an outstanding footballer he wasn't one of those people that you necessarily looked at or listened to talk and thought he's going to be a manager for sure um he's built his career as you say through the youth structure in the in the Spanish Federation which is something actually that that Spain have kind of quite liked before they did that with Julian L of course who had relatively little experience at senior Club level when he became Spain manager relatively little uh de has even less um and I think there was a there was a significant doubt around him it's very interesting you know you think back to him taking over from uh Luis Enrique and as I said there was quite a lot of this attempt to say this will be different he's going to twist this we're going to be more direct we're going to be more aggressive and and a bit of it felt a little bit like kind of protesting too much but I but I think it started to happen but even then talking to Spanish colleagues here who covered the Spanish under 21s who cover the Spanish under 19s even when those teams were being successful they would always say that's because they've got good players it's not about Louis wasn't he and there was huge amount of doubt about whether what he' done at Youth Level could be transposed onto onto the senior team imp part of course because of the nature of group dynamics you know kids are not the same as as as professionals and I think actually what we've seen in this tournament is partly the success of a man who's managed to get that same group dynamics he had then into the team now now it helps of course that a lot of these players have worked with him at under 19 under 21 level a lot of these players feel a degree of I don't know what it's call it gratitude or even debt to him you in terms of his his help in their their development a couple of key decisions in terms of members of the squad and the obvious one that became a you know a real talking point in Spain is the departure of Serio Ramos and the fact that there was clearly a sense of of friction there and I think that was about group dynamics and about leadership as much as about football what he's really done is given those players a degree of freedom I was very struck by something that rodri said before the tournament we we we we had a day with the Spanish national team just before they left for Germany and rodri talked about DEA fente understanding the difference between a national team and a club team understanding that there wasn't the time to impose a really clear and very structured system and of course we're talking about rodri here someone who's seen this with Guardiola at Manchester City and saying that there's three or four very clear Concepts that he made very clear and beyond that he didn't want to to kind of confuse people with other things he trusted in the players he's got he trusted in their capacity to to kind of run the team within those broad parameters and obviously the the evidence is showing that it's worked really well certainly is I mean you mentioned rodri there um I I read your piece you did with him um I saw it in the guardian I mean it was fascinating what what an articulate intelligent um footballer his and you can see that way he plays I mean he's been so important um to Manchester City and he's so important to Spain he doesn't lose very many football matches um what was he like during that interview how how did you feel he was as a person as a as a human being in terms of intelligence Etc unfortunate enough in in a way that it's taken a while for for rogy to to be recognized I think as as a big player and and you know without without wanting to necessarily kind of blow the myth here it is normally easier to get access to and talk to players who are not necessarily considered the superstars so over the last few years I've spoken to rodri quite a few times um and he's always been brilliant to listen to he's always understood the game with a and spoken about the game with a Clarity and and a sort of a very rational approach as well I remember during the first time I interviewed with him was not long after he'd arrived at Manchester City and he was talking about the difficulties of adapting and talking about his own background and obviously the first time you meet a play quite a lot the focus is in that on you know being a student being brought up the way that he was brought up and he talked then and it's really stuck with me about how when he was 11 or 12 he had a coach who pulled him to one side and and sort of started to explain to him different ways of playing and how he had been a kid and I think this is probably true of most most players who make it to the top even those who end up being Defenders or deep midfielders you know obviously as a kid because he was the best he was scoring all the goals you was the kid who played up front he was scoring over all the goals and there comes a moment when a coach is I'd like you to play here a little bit deeper and he talked about how it just kind of fell into place for him that he understood the spaces he understood how this movement creates that one and that even from a very young age there was a if you like a I don't want to sound kind of overblown here but a kind of a conceptual awareness of football that made him different to other players I personally think um that he's been a little bit unfortunate that CIO buett was around and that CLE wet was around for too long he was the master wasn't he it's kind of blocked his path to being this player that he is now now obviously he's also a product of playing with Guardiola and he talks a lot about how guardiola's molded him and shaped him and and and and know kind of made him rethink things but you know the thing that most got me got me about rodri and this I did put it in that piece but it's not rodri himself saying it it was before the Germany game and Gundam was talking about rodri and and you know maybe I'm allowing myself to kind of get run away with a with a with a throwaway line but gundan said oh yeah I remember in the first year that rodri was at Manchester City he used to stay behind every day after training 35 minutes 40 minutes an hour and of course at this point I'm sitting in in in The Press Room thinking he's about to say to practice this to practice that to practice heard this all before yeah to talk to talk like actually yeah that's part of it isn't it's about it's about understanding it as much as doing it absolutely I mean he's become very much I know Moretta is the captain and um but he's become very much the leader hasn't he actually while I mention marata um is he okay yes he is he's fine he's absolutely fine it wasn't I mean it was a worrying moment was I mean it was extraordinary I yeah and marata marata is I mean just very briefly to pick up on what you're saying there about the captain I feel like the Spanish national team has a kind of a shared captaincy you know it may be that I'm trying to compartmentalize a little bit too much here but I think you can look at three players in particular and you can look at Danny Carvajal as the captain from the point of view of the experience the aggression the competitiveness you look at ala marata who's the captain from a kind of if you like an emotional and human point of view in terms of he's the guy that makes everyone feel comfortable within the group that brings everyone together and then Ry is the captain from a footballing perspective and Rod say something very interesting the other day not actually to me I wish he had said it to me and he was asked about linal and niiko and he said oh I've had to tell him off a couple of times and I think that tells you something about him as well for not doing the homework probably exactly uh Sid I've I've resisted the urge to go too quickly uh too soon with laminal I wanted to wait to the second half in particular I mean boy oh boy I mean I've watched him all this season with with Barcelona a gast at times but to do what he's doing in a major championship um particularly I think in the semifinal um was was quite remarkable wasn't it yeah I mean it's as you say you're sort of resisting the urge to go to kind of go too soon with him I think all of us are trying not to get too excited because I think I think we all know that there's a there's kind of a duty of care as well isn't there of not sort of loading him with all this pressure um but the trouble is when you play that well it's going to happen you do exactly there was a lovely line in in I think it was before the first game and Lis alente was asked about him and in one breath he said you know let's take this away from him there's not put the pressure on it and then in the very next breath he said it's like he's been touched By God's magic wand and he just well there you go then and he's been well having SE having seen that clip of Messi with him when he was a tiny baby maybe maybe he has it's the ceiling of the cinee chapel it's the finger touching and you know it's it's quite extraordinary um I me look Messiah has touched me I I should know I know a messiah when I see one I've followed a few you have indeed you have I mean I suppose that's the other thing isn't it you obviously played against maradon and and and really admired him and I know how much you like Messi and we're all trying not to do that you know we're trying not to put this on him but he is very special I I guess the the thing is and I always feel this with young players that sometimes the risk is that we judge them not just by what they are but by what we think they will be you know and we we kind of project upon upon them a kind of a future them as well as a current them but he has played phenomenally he is unfortunally going to ruin this for us because of course every time we mention him we can't help but mention that he's 16 on the day of the final he will actually be 17 so it's been ruined 17 yeah it'll be an it'll be an oldtime then it'd be past his prime abolutely um um what what what's the reaction like to him in Spain though you know the general public there's there's a huge amount of enthusiasm when he first got called into the Spain Squad there was certainly from the if you like the Madrid supporting half of the Great footballing Divide here oh here back in Spain there was a kind of a sense that this is a bit soon isn't it and and you know is this because there's a bias towards the classic thing a bias towards Barcelona because of course Gaby had been called into the squad where he barely played a first team game Lin yal I think had only had his first start something like a week before he went to the Spanish na he played quite a lot as a as a sub of course they'd seen him through the structure and there was also a slight suspicion that maybe he gets called up now as a way of making sure you don't lose him later because of course he's got he's got a Ganan mother and and a Moroccan father and there was the suggestion that he might play for Morocco which of course Brahim dif has just decided to do um and I think there was a slight nervousness about whether this was the right decision at the right time and now that's been blown out of the water there's an enthusiasm for him I think a because of his age and B because of his talent but also the sense that him and niiko represent something different they represent a stylistic difference which is obviously that that Twist on Ticky Tacker a bit more mod direct willing to run at people that's very exciting for people to watch as well I think and and and that helps people there's a there's a there's a niess about the way they talk they're very fresh they're very infusiasm is that footballers either have or develop later on and who knows maybe with time they will become a bit more guarded and again I'm I'm a bit loed to go too far down this route because because I don't want to load this pressure onto them either but there's also the sense of these two symbolizing a shift in society the the the sons of immigrant in both cases because bear in mind that processes and waves of immigration in Spain are at different stages than in the UK and then in France and in various other European countries and so there is something about these two being groundbreaking as well the story you you you've got to tell of the the Williams um brothers because it it it's quite remarkable isn't it yeah and so so The Williams Brothers and what I love about this is there there's a there's a couple of different dimensions to it but the the kind of the starting point of this is that that um inaki and Nikos Williams's parents Maria and and Felix crossed the Sahara barefooted climbed into Spain uh at the at the North African enclaves that they've got um came into bilb iny's mom was pregnant with inaki when they arrived in Spain he's born in bilb which is what qualifies him to play for Athletic Club because of course they have a a bason policy they get taken in by by by a charity they get looked after by a charity a priest by the name of inaki hence iny's name and and and the family kind of begins their their their story in Spain in Pamplona what happens with inaki and Niko I think is is is for me at least is there's a tenderness to it that I really admire and really love the the the kind of the approach of these two brothers which is that um Felix the father goes to England and he's in England for for basically a decade he's he's in England trying to find work he works as a ticket collector at at Stanford Bridge amongst various other things really and so in Yaki who is 8 years older than Niko effectively becomes kind of Niko's surrogate father he takes him to school every day he takes him his pack lunch he picks him up afterwards he takes him to football games he looks after him as a father figure and they end up playing together in the first team of the athletic team now the national team thing I think is really interesting as well because what happens is there's a moment in which inaki after thinking that he would have the chance of Spain doesn't get there and his grandfather back in Ghana says you know I would love to see my grandson play for Ghana so inaki agrees to play for GH having previously rejected it and previously resisted it and he f that it didn't feel right to him he said look I'm Spanish I was born in The Basque Country I feel Basque I you know it's not quite right and I feel like I'd be taking an opportunity from someone else now that's the inaki story and I didn't realize I must admit until this tournament that there is a niik element to that as well which again feeds into this idea of inaki sacrificing himself and being a father for Niko Niko tells the story but actually the way inaki had told his grandfather story was not quite right because what the grandfather had said was I would like one of my grandchildren to play for Ghana and inaki effectively says I'll do it so that you can play for Spain and and I love these two as a as a as a pair of brothers anyway and as a pair of footballers and I just thought even that is a kind of a beautiful moment that says here we are this kind of duel identity family but I'm doing it for you now you go and win the Euros that's a really beautiful story isn't it um do you worry about these young players because we saw what happened with pedri and he's he got injured again in this tournament which was a shame but he played a lot of football very young do you fear the same might happen to perhaps lamin yal and and and Williams or not I I think everybody fears that I I think maybe in Niko's case no because he'll be 22 by the time the final comes down tomorrow I think yeah so he's a bit older I think with lamine obviously what happened with pedri that was that is the thing that everyone grabs on to and in particular Barcelona fans grab on to because they feel that the Federation didn't manage him the right ways that that season he played I think in a calendar year I think I'd be right in saying he played 70 I can't remember how many it was 74 75 games but he went to the Olympics as well as the euros and that was the real focal point if you like of the frustration now coming into this tournament Spain hadn't yet named their Olympic Squad and of course lamine is of an age where he could be in it and he was that's why I asked actually because I saw a piece this morning that said he was they thought he would be in the Olympic Squad and I thought oh God they're not going to do that again are they no exactly and this was a FAL point and he said no and he actually said look I would like to but I thought about it I thought about rational and I wouldn't forgive myself if something went wrong and I think you know I don't want to make a positive out of the fact that ped's had terrible injuries but at least that was the warning if you like for other players yeah I think so and and obviously there's a broader question about the fixture list and it was very interesting listening to rodri say you know 50 60 games a season maybe you can do that a couple of years but you can't do it for 10 years and that's why I'm worried about people like line and that's a broader question it's not just about lamine but obviously he's if you like in that generational firing line that this could happen again yeah very much so I I want to talk about Danny Elmo because he's a player that didn't really start the tournament in in the starting lineup was it because pedri was there and he stepped in but I mean he's he's he's a real talent Elmo I read this morning that his his release Clause has been made public and I think he might attract a bit of attention yeah he might his release course is is uh you know what the top of my head I can't remember if it's the 15th or the 16th of July but basically before the 15th or 16th of July and he's it's quite interesting talking to him because he now says well you all know my release calls without ever actually telling you what it is he just assumes we all know because of course he knows that we all know um and and and basically his departure is is on the way Bayern Munich have been interested Barcelona have been interested I I must confess I don't know what his final decision will be um I know I do know that there was a slight difference of opinion within the family about where where he should prob probably end up his career is really interesting as well because been a very managed career you know leaving Barcelona early to go to Croatia because he was aware that never played in Spain has he exactly so din mcreb were going to give him opportunities he wouldn't have got elsewhere going from there to to leick because of course that whole idea of the red ball model where we develop young players and then we allow them to move on and I think that has meant that he's gone a little bit under the radar in Spain because he's been a little bit outside of the country I also think he's partly a victim of the fact that the Spanish structure hasn't really allowed for a number 10 until now because it's tended to be 433 it's now more like four 42 31 and he can be the one in the middle of the three behind the forward I think that's helped him I think he's also a player who maybe doesn't do things that are um kind of fantastically attractive he's not he's not a fantasy player if you I mean he's technically brilliant he takes really good was in the semi well that's the thing I mean this is why for a moment there I was backing away from my own words because I think the go he scor the semi is is so wonderful but but I do think there's there's a lovely Spanish phrase which is to to enter into someone's eye he's maybe not always been a footballer that enters into your eye he's not kind of naturally incredibly graceful or or or incredibly technically gifted but I think he's very very good at everything um and and I think this has been a great tournament for him not just because of how he's played but I think because it has made people who maybe were doubtful about him think actually yeah this is the guy and coming into tournament I'll be honest with you I thought if he was going to play he would be one of the two wide men kind of forced to come inside and be be a combinate a combinations wide player rather than a run at you wide player or he might end up as the false nine as it's turned out the restructuring of that Midfield has enabled him to be the 10 the restructuring and of course ped's injury has enabled him to be the number 10 which is where he feels happiest do the Spanish public see themselves as favorites in this final given the way that they've played yes they do of course they do the way they've played but without believing that this is done because of course there is an awareness of of of English football and there quite a lot of Spanish people watch English football there is awareness of the the the enormity of the names that they've got I me span is obviously have watched Bellingham all season now it's true that Bellingham since around about maybe around about February time hasn't been as as good as he was in the first half season but still an extraordinary first season from him and people look at that him go well he's brilliant Harry Kane's brilliant Phil foden's brilliant they saw him at the Burnal score that brilliant goal um and so there is an awareness that look this lot might not be playing that well but they've got some footballers and so I I do think you know you can't not be favorites when you've had the run that Spain have had but I think there is naturally a degree of caution and that's about Spain but it's also about England and and a recognition of the quality of their players my final question Sid who are you cheering on I I know you love your Spanish football yeah no they I I am English and this I mean you know it's true and actually this speaks to the in Yaki Williams thing we were talking about speaks to laort and and L norand and so on I I think sometimes we get hung up on the idea that you can only have one identity and you you can have more than one identity and you can have a connection to all sorts of countries and if Spain were playing anyone except England I would be wanting Spain to win but they play England and yet it's also true this sounds incredibly um what's the word lacking in enthusiasm or passion or whatever but when you're working at a game it's not quite the same to be honest oh it will be on it will be on to be honest I might disagree with you on that one when it happens yeah you've still not said who you who you cheering for how about England I am English I me there's just there's just no avoiding that just for just for clarity Sid um just for clarity um thank you so much um it's been fascinating as always um your Insight is invaluable thank you uh that's all we have time for on this episode of the rest is football do join us for our show tomorrow where we'll have mik and albach previewing the European Championship final between England and Spain and of course the final tomorrow will be live on BBC 1 will be on air from 6:30 uh goodbye from me and thank you once again Sid pleasure [Music]

Channel: The Rest Is Football

Views: 95,482

Keywords: football, garylineker, micahrichards, alanshearer, therestisfootball, EURO2024, saka, england

Id: okp0lcBkoSY

Length: 26min 47sec (1607 seconds)

Published: Sat Jul 13 2024