Should You Take Vitamin K and Vitamin D Together

do you need to take vitamin K2 with your Vitamin D supplements like a synergistic effect or something a lot of people think you do okay well let's figure it out okay welcome to talking with docs I'm Dr Brad weening and I'm Dr Paul Z okay so today we're going to talk about vitamin D which is a very common common topic we're actually do another video later on about some of the dangers of vitamin D because it's not as safe as everybody thinks that's the first thing no and big doses it can be dang big doses can be dangerous and then we're going to talk about vitamin K and how they work together to do a bunch of different things in our body okay I see what you did there the beginning okay so K when we talking about vitamin K we're talking about vit K1 or K2 right but don't get this confused with K which is potassium potassium right right so don't get confused with the element on the periodic table I think 19 possibly but its symbol is a capital K capital K A little plus sign yeah right so we're not talking about vit we're not talking about potassium we're talking about vitamin K which is a fat soluble vitamin we've talked before there are four of them a d e k or ad mhm um problem with fat soluble vitamins is they can store up and build up in your body if you take too much of it right unlike the nonfat soluble vitamins that you're excreted in your urine so you can take as much as you want and you'll pee out the excess not the case with a d e or k not the K right you did it again question okay so K1 is the one that's most common this is the one that we're familiar with um and this is is commonly found in green leafy vegetables and cruciferous vegetables so you can imagine people that have a high consumption of these Foods often have better health indices and are going to have vitamin K levels that are okay right interesting about vitamin K another thing within medicine is that it relates to your clotting Factor we've talked about this before that German word coagulation so people that are on warrin or cumin typically for something called atrial fibrillation to thin their blood or prevent from clotting have to be careful with their vitamin K consumption right we and as residents and because you know and early in our careers we used to administer quite a lot of vitamin K a lot because a lot of people were using warin which is rat poison um also known as Coumadin uh to thin their blood if they had conditions that needed it to be done like you mentioned atrial fibrillation and that there are newer anti-coagulants now indicated for those things so it's we're seeing less and less and less people on war print uh however when some came in on Warf their blood was thin but we had to do surgery on them so to reverse it one of the ways we would reverse it was to give vitamin K IV or orally and because it competitively inhibits they they compete with each other for for receptors so if you're on Warf you've depleted your vitamin K and so we used to give vitamin K to counteract the orphin so that we could operate on them and they wouldn't bleed excessively yeah and competitive inhibition is kind of like two people having a key and trying to get to like a lock and if cumin in's there vitamin K come in kind of push it out of the the way or or assume the position of that lock to help your blood coagulate normally because obviously we can't do surgery if people don't have the ability to stop beding competitive inhibition which is what we often try and do with each other when we're try to say the same thing on a video that's right appr it happens it happens let me say it okay so then so that that's mostly the the K1 side so K2 because it's not confusing enough you have come with the K subscript wait so K subscript 2 there's actually like 10 some people would say even 12 different types of K2 okay so there's two important ones ones that you'll see a lot on videos like these or on other research uh number four MK4 and mk7 and MK2 is called menaquinone and K one's called phin so good with the big words they really like the big names so MK4 and mk7 are the ones that are thought to be most responsible for the health benefits that we're going to talk about so before we do that where where do where do we find K2 can we find it in our diet yeah we can really okay where this is one where the chicken wing may have a role chicken has a high concentration of K2 compared to other Foods right so particularly compared to Pork and Beef so in the in the meat category the chicken wing is better but things like cheese and butter and eel and then a soy a fermented soy product called natto apparently it's not very good to eat a lot of people talk about how it's slimy and tastes weird I like to put that on my eel when I eat the eel yeah that's right and then the last one is other fermented foods like sauerkraut so the trouble with relying on animal sources for this is that as mammals what happens is they take in Greens like grass and then they bowels convert them through bacteria and every specific enzyme that converts the K2 but because more and more animals are being fed grain as opposed to just grazing around their K2 continents are going down um so that makes it a little bit tricky that's why I only eat the chicken wing from a kale fed chickens so yes it's hard to find yes interesting one cup of kale actually has all of your daily requirement of vitamin K which and Zero taste that's right is your the RDA for Vitamin K is actually 90 to 120 depending on male or female um and they actually don't specifically address the RDA for K2 because um a lot of of research does not necessarily show a specific benefit at this point can you imagine K2 in the blood so very good question there's not a reliable test so if I'm a supplement company I'm pretty happy about that saying listen I think your K2 is low want to take the supplement how do I know why I can't test it there are some indirect ways to test um kils and that's car o ilation of ocalin but because if you have a bunch of ocalin that's around and not carboxilate then some people say well that can translate into yeah low K2 but there's not a good direct test so this is one of the plights of the whole K2 argument really right okay so what does K2 do what is what does K2 do different than coagulation what's the purpose of it uh K2 helps you regulate the calcium in your body right it helps you um with and and and calcium in the body is stored mostly in the bones yes and we like it in the bones it's not so great if it gets out into the bloodstream and gets very high levels of calcium in the bloodstream because that can go into your arteries that can cause plaques and that contribute to atherosclerosis heart disease stroke and all those vascular diseases that we talk about right so vitamin D gets that calcium up when it's consumed with fat gets that calcium up into our bloodstream and we talked in another video about how calcium supplements cause high spikes of this and that's an issue but what happens is there are two proteins called osteocalcin and Matrix GLA protein where they require vitamin K2 to carboxilate them and make them active and this helps promote calcium going into the bones and actually out of the bloodstream um into the into the bones rather than sitting in those vessels or calcifying the walls because we talk about arterial stiffness being an issue and calcification of the plaques being in is shoe so you can see those two good things because if you have osteoporosis you have poor bone mineral density increasing the calcium in the bone helps that strengthens your bone and helps you resist fragility fractures at the same time getting it out of the blood keeps it out of your artery right so those seem like really good things obviously everyone should take vitamin D and calcium and K2 right well that's the problem we we know some of the mechanisms that happen but so so much of the time we know mechanisms of things and then when we go to translate to health benefits that's where the link is broken right and you can say oh yeah we see all the biochemical things that happen so if we just give a supplement less people should die and less people should break their bones that is what we're having difficulty proving especially with K2 and a lot of the studies for K2 to um particularly our observational studies so where they assess people's dietary patterns and sometimes they'll give them supplements and a lot of these studies are sponsored by the supplement company so K2 supplement business in 2022 was about $700 million estimated to get to $2 billion by 2030 and a lot of it is driven by social media and videos exactly like this where people be like hey click on the link and get 10% off my K2 Brad and Paul's K2 um we do not have any of those types of products or sponsorships and really complicates the landscape so observational daa where you say well look this group of people we think they look like this and they don't have this so it's because of this well here's an example give us an example so if you're watching professional golf on a Sunday you say well these guys all have long pants they got shoes with little spikes on the bottom they're wearing a golf shirt they have a hat they're professional golfers well if I put on a hat and a golf shirt long pair of pants and some golf shoes that does not make me a professional golfer it makes me look like a professional golfer but I'm not a professional golf and that's the difference between observational research and a randomized devil blind control trial in a human which is the gold standard so until you have that you can't really say definitively that something uh has proof however it doesn't mean that K2 does not do this stuff it just means that we can't prove it definitively at this point these observational studies Are One Step Up from observational humor Jerry Seinfeld style right I like Jerry St to so if you go to Pub M the National Library of Congress where they document all the papers and the research articles if you limmit it to randomized control trials it comes up with actually 15 and all of them are about about bone right now right so when you're doing K2 and D3 together and so what does it show looking through all of them my takeaway is that the one group of people that has shown to benefit from K2 and D3 together would be postmenopausal women with respect to osteoporosis and Bone quality bone density but it does not necessarily reduce the incidence of fractures right right that's the thing we can see biomechanical biochemical effects but we can't translate it into a good clinical outcome and that's like many of the supplements right interesting but there are some people in cases where we do administer K2 we talked about well we talked about vitamin K1 we give uh when people came in on warrin with the thin blood and newborns as well often we get a k injection as well because it doesn't cross the placenta very well and there may be medical conditions that you are on okay for those medical conditions prescribe by your family doctor or your Healthcare professional that's fine we're talking about supplements for the average person uh with no significant related medical conditions should they be taking vitamin K right can we go to the bottom line yet or we there no not yet with respect to the Cardiology side so things like arterial stiffness calcification of the ortic valve as well as calcification of the vessels themselves a lot of observational data no good solid randomized control trial to prove this actually recently there was a trial for Ric valve calcification that did not show a difference that was very very disappointing for a lot of people who thought certainly it was going to and there are specific populations where the incidence of valve calcification is very high particularly renal patients and dialis patients they've done some studies in this group of people to say hey if we give them K2 can we suck some of that calcium out of their vessels and it has not been proven so I think there's more to learn about this I think if you're so I guess the take- home for me is that taking K2 I think has some potential benefits I think it could help your bones at this point more than it can help your vessels but not sure about the vessel side because a lot of the people that have healthy vessels are already eating healthy diets green leafy vegetables cruciferous vegetables wide variety of of plants as well as less animal products this leads to better yeah that's my take-home that's now after all the research and all these supplements I go into it thinking is this thing going to prove to me that this supplement is better than eating a healthy balanced diet right and then that's sort of the benchmark I said and no definitely K doesn't meet that requirement for me and if and if you think about it why is there no double blinded randomized control trial it doesn't make sense that there isn't one because the companies that make these supplements have a lot of money because it's a big industry they could easily fund one of those trials but you wouldn't fund one of those trials if you were one of those companies and not confident that the results would prove that your supplement tricky is is good and then they so you should be a little bit weary that there aren't big randomized control trials proving these things that's right and time's going to show because there are a lot of ongoing ones and like we said there's been some observational data that's shown like there's one that a lot of people quote the Rotterdam study where they shown that people with high K2 intake do have less um calcification of their vessels but it's not an RCT it's observational data so the good news is vitamin K2 is very safe um so even if you took very very high doses the odds of it causing damage to you would be low unless you're on cumin um it does have an Associated cost um but I think I think proceed with caution and I think we'll we'll keep our eyes and ears open and if something else comes up happy to share yeah and leave a comment if you have some experience or anecdotal data or you agree or completely disagree but don't get mad people are going to get mad and say well I saw this guy and he said I have to take K2 um we're all about the randomized control trials so show us show us the data show me the evidence there now you know if you like this video please like it subscribe to our Channel and remember you are in charge of your own health just eat a good diet there you go we'll see you next time

Channel: Talking With Docs

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Keywords: vitamin d, vitamin d3, vitamin k2, vitamin d deficiency, vitamin k, vitamin k2 benefits, vitamin d supplements, vitamin d benefits, vitamin k2 and d3, vitamin d deficiency symptoms, vitamin d foods, vitamin k2 foods, vitamin k2 supplement, vitamin d3 benefits, sources of vitamin d, vitamin k benefits, vitamin k2 sources, vitamin d deficiency causes, low vitamin d, source of vitamin k2, vitamin k2 mk7, vitamin d dosage, too much vitamin d

Id: OWfpvkkq8ao

Length: 13min 2sec (782 seconds)

Published: Sun May 12 2024