Shawn Ryan Show #004 Former MARSOC Marine Raider Nick Kefalides

this episode of the Shawn Ryan Show is brought to you by vigilance elite patreon vigilance elite patreon is how you support the show it also has an entire library of tactical training and behind-the-scenes footage of the Shawn Ryan show go to vigilance elite comm click the training tab it'll take your right to vigilance elite training on patreon get a subscription support the show Thank You let's get on with it he proceeds to look at me and one of my head of comrades and he's like hey I'm go ahead and put the body on the hood on the hood of what so you fuckin took out number three having that natural instinct to react and to do what needs to be done you can't train for that you were hand selected again to come on as a fucking operator the car ball was driven into one of our vehicles on the convoy we did what we were trained to do they were taking kids and filling their bicycle tires with explosives and they would have the kids ride their bike towards the convoy and start detonating their fucking bicycles I got up on the top of the roof and you know started engaging you know targets and you can see the guys were running back and forth sure enough they're still coming and I just engaged sing around to each guy they were from all different directions you know we cut out murder holes in the walls you're 19 years old and you just got your first engagement and shot your first man your fucking service record is amazing I've worked with a lot of different operators from all different branches especially when I was at CIA if I could go back and operate with somebody that I didn't get to before you would be fucking top of my list dude and I don't say that shit to very many people welcome back to the Shawn Ryan show I want to kick things off and say thank you to all our patrons on patreon who have been supporting the show behind the scenes because of your support we've been able to upgrade all of our equipment and you'll see the benefits of that as you watch the show also I want to give a big thank you to everyone who took the time to go to iTunes hit the subscribe button and leave us a review if you haven't done that yet please go to iTunes hit the subscribe button leave us a review even if it's just one word that's what we need to get this show up in the top charts if you're watching this on youtube and you're going to want to because there's real gunfight footage of our next guest in combat in Afghanistan hit the subscribe button on YouTube hit the like button share it with all your friends leave us a comment and with that being said I'm ready to introduce my next guest number zero zero four he's a United States Marine with four combat deployments he spent some time in the infantry on the frontlines in iraq back in the early days he was hand selected to become a plank owner of MARSOC which is the special operations unit out of the United States Marine Corps and became a Marine Raider he shot and killed the number three high-value threat in Afghanistan in his time guys if you think you have what it takes to become a Marine Raider you'd better fucking think again at the end of this there'll be a debrief covering the entire experience we also interviewed his wife while they were here everyone this is better than entertainment this is the real thing please welcome my very good friend mr. Nick cavalettis Nik it's an honor to have you hurt bad welcome to the show thanks man it's truly an honor to be here to just be able to sit in this chair knowing the guys that have sat here before means some bad motherfuckers have sat in that chair yeah it's a privilege truly well I'm just super stoked you guys got out here I know it's a little out of the way but you know the last time we saw each other was what two or three years ago probably teaching on the fucking gun range and then we kind of split and you went to Tampa and I stayed on the fucking range for a while but but anyways now you're a professional fisherman and that's fuckin awesome I'm like super stoked so I got you a present oh shit that might help you take your fishing to the next level so if you reach over there oh no yeah there it is oh what's in there no peeking hey no beat you know it nod okay no wonder go and open it go ahead oh yeah these will come in handy I love to snack when I'm out on the boat like it's just like feeding is continuous so so those are actually great bait for bass point oh shit yeah and there's different colors in there so you can use them okay cool some colors work better for different seasons yeah yeah I know the red ones they like you know for spawning really appreciate it dude I'll try to make sure that these make it till tonight right on but getting kind of into the into it I've been really looking forward to this one because I have we haven't had a marine on yet and so I'm excited about that because my personal opinion is I think the Marine Corps is probably the most effective self-sustaining unit or branch in the military because of so they're self-sustaining I think you guys are probably the most eager to get in there and get to war you do you guys are very fucking effective extremely violent and hungry for it and definitely the biggest liberal risks of and I'd have to agree with this there's a Marines there's definitely fucking trouble yeah I've told people before you know if you haven't partied with a group of Marines before you really have an experienced boss it's just a whole another level man yeah but and I'm excited because you are actually you might you're one of the only guys I've ever met who actually has real ground combat time in a in an unconventional unit and you were soft and in a conventional you know when you were a grunt and I kind of want to go into the differences that you saw on both being a grunt and a MARSOC operator so but anyways let's start with your childhood so where'd you grow up I grew up in South Florida Palm Beach County area so my mom and my dad were actually both Marines I can actually say my mom will work combat boots oh shit yeah so mom and dad were both Marines they were stationed together in Hawaii and that's where I was born there and kind of obey Hawaii at a young age we moved from there shortly after my mom and my dad got out of the Marine Corps they both did enlistment got out moved back to Florida which was home for them that was my first time as a baby you know when they moved from where I was born to Florida and then I grew up there you know it's gone all through grade school in high school and everything so South Florida's is what I would essentially call home so your parents for both Marines but you weren't necessarily a military brat they were out like at a very young age yeah yeah pretty much but you know anybody that's been in marine corps kind of knows that that mentality and that lifestyle it sticks with you don't really you know they have that same once a marine always a marine I feel like it kind of holds true because you keep that regimented lifestyle you know that discipline and they passed that down to me I mean my childhood man I remember get like chores in my house consisting of like White Glove inspections to make sure I dusted my bathroom correctly in shelling he said that I had no clue was actually going to be relevant during my time the Marine Corps because you actually get inspected like you get inspected on how you clean things and stuff like that like you guys have the worst inspections yeah yeah whether it's uniform inspection or field day or you know field days the term that we use to clean you know be like every Thursday would be field day and there's times I can remember do we've had inspections in our company Gunny would come through and the inspections would go we just keep failing till like 3 o'clock in the morning and we had to be up for PT at 5:00 and I think there was a kind of a method to the madness if you will like it wasn't just to make us you know just to be you know mean to us and be like now you suck at cleaning it was to see how we would perform with sleep deprivation you know being up all night and then having to perform two hours later you know strenuous you know PT exercise or doing a ruck march or a hike or something like that so yeah yeah what so what did your parents do in the Marine Corps so my dad was a combat engineer my mom was an administrative clerk and then my stepfather he he's a vietnam-era marine Marine scout sniper he did multiple tours over Vietnam and you know saw some pretty pretty hairy shit so no shit so when did when did your stepdad come into the picture yeah how old was I when my stepdad came into the picture I want to say it was like right 12 11 12 years old when he came into the picture okay so I was still fairly young you know almost a teenager were you close with your biological father yeah yeah I've always been my dad and I have always been close are you close with your stepfather I mean close in a sense like we could go months without talking and then pick up right where we left off kind of thing like we're not like you know close as my father father and I are but I mean we get along good there were some times during my childhood where we didn't get along you know just for you know random reasons but that's just you know childhood and parenting you know in general that's how it is so he was a fucking scout sniper in Vietnam with multiple tumors yeah yeah he saw some shit he had some kills under his belt and stuff like that and I think I kinda you know like a lot of teenagers you kind of go through that phase where you know you don't really want to you know follow the rules and that shit and he was just like hey you're gonna fuck live here you're gonna live by my fucking rules and him and I fucking butted heads quite a bit but you know he get past that shit you know yeah as I've gotten older and I've matured him and I've gotten closer and closer the Vietnam era is like I'm in fact that's that's the whole reason I even joined the military to begin with oh sure yeah I just I feel like that that era just got I mean those were some hard dudes and they did not have like they didn't have the backing of the country like world war two did not to take anything from World War two because it was you know what I mean but but coming home from Vietnam you definitely weren't getting a fucking pat on the back hell no and and and I think that Vietnam is like really were special operations and unconventional warfare have really started to absolutely come into play I agree and yeah I mean so would he tell you things that happened over there or he he didn't really advertise stuff he wasn't a big drinker but if he you know had a couple beers on a random occasion or whatever he'd loosen up and some things would kind of slip especially if it was like you know me and one of my stepbrothers were around it was just us and was kind of you know that that environment where it wasn't a bunch of family members and people around he had said some things but you know you could tell he had been he'd been through some shit like he has pretty severe PTSD I mean we knew it like I I was exposed to that as a kid before I even knew what the fuck PTSD was yeah you know even when I joined Marine Corps I didn't really have a true understanding of kind of what he went through but I just remember like waking up in the middle of the night as a kid and I could like you know my bedroom was kind of right down the hallway from our living room or family room and he had a like one of those lazy boy recliner and I remember waking up at night and this happened multiple times where I could hear the rocking chair squeaking like somebody was sitting in it and I just thought it was really bizarre I'm like you know as a kid you're like oh my god is Ordos my house or whatever and I remember waking up in the middle of the night and just not being able to resist going out there and see why this chair was squeaking so I get up like I was going to the bathroom and he'd be sitting there like in the dark with his 357 Magnum sitting on his lap fuck man and like I don't know what kind of state of mind he was in you know or what he was doing I didn't ask I just remember going out there seeing it and me like what are you doing and I was like oh I had to go to the bathroom you know and so I didn't know at the time I thought it was really strange but years later as I came to understand what PTSD was and kind of some of the things associated with having PTSD I kind of realized well he was just kind of having one of those moments you know I mean you probably you probably fucking saved his life by coming out of your room guys there's no telling dude you know there's no telling holy shit yeah do you see like a lot of similarities between what you've gone through and like looking back what he was doing yeah absolutely man yeah you know a lot of the isolation yeah isolation you know anger stuff like that you know you're you're trained you know to act with violence I am you know demean and you come back you know and you're put into civilization and you're expected to act as you know I normally never get everything you know yeah yeah and you know so I can I can surely relate to seeing how he had reacted at certain times in the way he was and you know surely does does relate to do you know the way I've kind of dealt with it so growing up did dad did those stories is that what inspired you to become a marine yourself or walk us through that not really because I mean well in a sense yeah like he did tell me a lot of cool stories about like the Marine Corps and you know like you know some of the experiences he got to you know got to enjoy a my dad did the same thing you know they at the time they wanted me to join the Marine Corps they knew that it was gonna be a good thing it would set me straight it would set me up even if I did 1 enlistment they knew that the Marine Corps was gonna be a good thing so they had always kind of pushed you know hey you gonna join the Marines are you gonna you know my dad just kind of made like he just kind of was like you know the Marine Corps you know such up you know you get free college and you teach a discipline and you know you'll be regimented you'll meet some really good people but I don't know man it was in the back of my mind I kind of always knew that I was gonna join what age would you say like it became like very apparent like well this is where I'm going honestly man 9/11 9/11 yeah like I always like even as a kid growing up like I watched you know like Full Metal Jacket and you know different war movies and stuff because I found that very intriguing and that's the kid I was always like a little shit I was always getting into fights and be people up in stupid shit you know so I was always I just love that adrenaline you know and I wanted to serve my country I wanted to you know protect the people and that's kinda Sencha Lee what you know you were trained to do and how old were you when the towers went down I was I want to say I was 16 years old I was sitting in a sitting in math class and you know it's it it's kind of vague to me and how it happened but I just remember the phone ringing in the classroom and my teachers phone's ringing and he answers the phone it was like like as it's like he never stopped but he stopped like as if it was an emergency and next you know he hangs up I mean he had a TV in his class from a lot of us you know growing up you remember you had like some days you would watch like movies or memories or history or something like that get a TV in his classroom and he rolls the TV out and he plugs it in and he turns on the TV and we just are watching you know the towers have just fell you know chaos ensued and you know we're all kind of like we're kids man we're looking at each other we're like the fuck's going on like what doesn't happen slowly but surely like you know this pictures being painted as to what just happened you know to our country you know and I had some time to kind of really you know ponder the whole thing that was going on and that was kind of the that was kind of the moment man that was the moment for me I knew right then and there I was like I'm fucking going no shits only as it's happening and like oh dude all the time that's when you know this is I'm fucking dough I was so fucking enrage dude like I was so enraged I just wanted to get on the fight you know yeah I knew that I knew who is responsible for that attack on our own soil and I just wanted calls out for blood damn that's pretty heavy for a 16 year old so when did you wind up when did you actually enlist in the Marine Corps well it's kind of interesting I didn't enlist all's 18 but I had moved out of the house at the age of 16 yeah I was I was living on my own at the age of 16 all on your own yeah like I literally was in high school and I had a fucking apartment and a job damn yeah so from that age of like 16 to 18 there was a lot of fucking off and meeting there oh dude like not really booze but just like adrenaline junkie like just I used to street race a lot I had a couple of the Fox body style mustangs and I was in the muscle cars I was into street racing I wasn't going fast and I'm telling you if I if I hadn't joined the Marine Corps I would have ended up either dead or in jail like I'm convinced that I would have ended up either dead or in jail had or not joined the Marine Corps damn yeah I can relate to that I could definitely relate to that but so so you joined at 18 at 18 yep at 18 you know I was talking to my recruiter you know really good dude Jason bats and and him and I actually became pretty good friends like we hung out quite a bit like I don't know he he took a liking to me and he wasn't one of those recruiters that was just like you know a like you should do this and you know was just worried about you know hitting his quota he really did give you some tips and pointers to kind of give me point in the right direction helped set me up for success once I did you know graduate boot camp and all that stuff but yeah 18 happened I remember at the time that I was supposed to go there was a huge hurricane growing up in Florida it's a huge hurricane every summer but there was a huge hurricane coming and I was kind of torn between okay do I stay and like make sure my family's gonna be okay or do I go and you know I don't know what what's gonna happen my dad was like you need to go just go I don't worry about anything at home this is your time go which sorry let me interject here I'm just curious which real dad stepdad which one was kind of like dying in that direction my real dad yeah real my real dad yeah your stepdad was he late he in there or no not really you know my dad was probably the most impactful individual in my life mom so you know when when he you know he was a father but he's also mentor and you know he yet my dad you know he he was probably one of the biggest you know models in my life in terms of being a mentor and a father you know and he and what he thought meant a lot to me you know very critical for myself and and everything he would say and do like I would try to learn from because he's just full of knowledge and he just he told me he's like you need to not worry about what's going on here if this is what you want to do you need to go don't sit back don't just go oh shit ya know and knowing like knowing that you wanted to go to combat I don't think it was really a reality for him at that point because this was like I mean it was it was still early on yeah and I just don't think it really registered for him yeah until I graduated boot camp got assigned to my unit you know went through the school of infantry assigning my unit and started to work up to deploy you know we started training right off the bat so you went hold on let's backtrack just said and see one end Marine Corps you go to like what was your contract basically I I signed up to be a ground pounder to be a no 311 infantry rifleman what's that pipeline look like honestly man it's the pipeline is sure you go to you go to eight-week course school of infantry and they teach you just basic infantry skillsets you know different weapon systems different tactics you know patrolling hand and arm signals radio communications just basic stuff that can be built upon once you get to your unit the fall on training continues it's a little bit more advanced a little bit more fine-tuned if you will so you know one thing that like really that I want to say about the Marine Corps is or I want to ask actually is it like a marine like grunt unit is extremely fucking effective at what they do and historically not just you know modern day warfare you know starting from 911 in the Middle East and to the illusion ship but you know Vietnam Somalia they're more hungry than any other fucking branch than any other unit it's a very young demographic and what is it about that like that's different than the other branches I guess is kind of what I'm asking is at what point or what do they do in that training that motivates the Marines so much more than then than the other units I mean every single fucking Marine that I meet is I mean there they are and and I can't say that for for every unit in the other branches yeah I'd have to agree with that it's funny you mention that because we you know I respect all branches of military I don't give a shit whether you were cook or whether you were gunner and a turret like you were contributing to the mission in some aspect you've got my respect but it took me time to grow to have that mentality I used to be like you know fuck that if you're not infantry you're just a poke poke being an acronym we used for personnel other than grunt but we used to laugh and be like you know people that had never done time in the military before it would ask me like what's the piece difference like in the Army and the Marine Corps by no means by bash in the Army but I used to be like all right so think of like meat eaters and leaf eaters we're carnivores like and I don't know man it just I think it starts from the day you arrived at boot camp and you step on those yellow footprints they literally break you the fuck down mentally physically psychologically to nothing I mean I'm seeing I'm sitting there watching grown fucking men cry like babies to go home you know guys claiming that you know all of a sudden now their religion doesn't allow - you know to be involved in the training that were required to do and I basically manage them it's like a meant out it that they in green into you just the way that they train you then they build you back up you know to be what they want you to be and I think it's just like by the time you graduate boot camp especially in a wartime like you know you're hearing and seeing about all this shit that's going down and you just got these you know guys that just have done training their entire life for three fucking months consisted of making it so that they can go yeah it's a knowing that they're gonna go to combat you know yeah I don't know man I really think it's it's a lot of tradition the way from boot camp is regimented it is the way that drill instructors are I mean it is it's it's I'm gonna say like for me boot camp from a physical aspect was not a challenge I got you know it's prepared I made sure that I prepared for boot camp you know physically I was there what I wasn't ready for was the psychological aspect yeah and and that's where they really kind of build you up and then by the time you graduate boot camp and you're just you know you're a machine you're thirsty for blood you know and they've trained you to be this machine yeah yeah I mean it's fucking effective and and another thing that I find really common amongst Marines is uh I mean you guys are fucking tight and you take care of your own and and a lot of other units especially in Safi at certain be we can be a little dramatic at times but I mean it it functions and you know and and we're very effective but I can't say that about we can flip the switch and turn it on you know what I mean and we can also turn it off and that's one usually you know board soft guys a lot of fucking drama winds up happening sometimes and but I don't really in the Marine Corps and one thing I noticed when I was going through training both at in the SEAL Teams and at CIA was a lot of the other branches like guys like they finished their shit and they're fucking gone and at a very young age when I went through buds I think I think when I got I was about 19 and the guys that were switching over from the marine grunt units were always the last ones out they were always the ones that were helping guys with their swim times they were helping guys with their rifles how to clean them how to take them apart it was it was always the Marines or Navy corpsman who served with a marine touch to him yeah they just they had that shit down pat every fucking one of them that I met and they were all solid dudes in fact the guy that won honor man of might and my buds class was was a former Force Recon guy but I just helped me understand like what what happens because it's it really is every one of them that I've met is like that I think there is you know they really put a lot of emphasis on I'll give you an example you know if you're on a platoon run or something you're only as fast as your slowest man right so everybody knows like I don't give a fuck if you can run three miles in 17 minutes this guy here can only run it in 22 minutes or 23 minutes we need up his runtime because as a unit you know we're only as fast as that guy and I think that crosses over into every aspect whether it has to do with you know training or whether in combat or you're in schools and you're learning just gaining more knowledge I think we've just always had that you know that mentality kinda ingrained in us too you know help the guys within you because it's not about you collectively your unit and the success of that unit doesn't just rely on one or two people it relies on everybody within that squad or that platoon so but it's also tough to say I mean it's part of the process you know just from just our employment yeah I mean they break you down and just everything all the training which I mean it's been so long for me I can recall half the shit we did in boot camp so you join at 18 get through boot camp go to Infantry School and then you get to what unit I get assigned to 2nd battalion 2nd Marines and this year's this this is mm this is the end of 2004 I want to say it was like probably December actually was probably December timeframe of 2004 maybe January of 2005 I get assigned to 2nd battalion 2nd Marines ok that's stationed there in Camp Lejeune North Carolina ok what how much time has how much time does it take to show up to boot camp get through that go to Infantry School now you're at the unit what how much time are we talking six months a year five months you got three months from Marine Corps boot camp and then the school of mperatures eight weeks and out another two months you're looking at five months sometimes when you graduate boot camp you might get a week of leave between the time you graduate boot camps and time you go to school we have a tree or you might get a month it just really depends on Tommy year holidays you know stuff like that most shit so in five months ago from fucking dumbass high school kid who's racing cars to a fucking war fighter within five months yes mine said everything's different yeah I wouldn't say you know I yeah I mean I wouldn't say that you're a you know full fledge like ready to go warfighter but I mean you've got you've got some training under your belt you know you've got that men and green in your head at that point you know that like it's happening I mean you're definitely a war fighter whether you like it or not you know name because you're fucking going yeah and so how long were you at that unit until you got your first deployment orders like six months that's it yeah like when I got to the unit they had already they were pretty much had already started a work up you know work up further deployment can last anywhere from you know five months to nine months depending on how much time you have when I got there they were already in the middle of a workup so I got there and jumped right into training I mean we were going to places like you know going out to California and doing training there on Lejeune stuff like that like we were we were getting ready you know it was shortly after that when we got our date as to what when we were leaving how long did you have before you were leaving it was about time up for training to further your first deployment between the time I got to my unit and the time I was probably six months so okay so we're looking at a year from enlistment to deployment very much less than a year no shit yeah where did you where were you going we were going to Iraq we were going to a place called al karma Iraq which is just north of Fallujah anybody that's been deployed to Iraq probably knows about the city of karma or the town of the village of Karma it's a bad fucking place man yeah probably one of the fucking worst places I've been in my life had they already hit the Marine Corps already invaded Fallujah at that point that was though three I believe yeah yeah the initial invasion had already taken place but there was just a lot of residual just bullshit still going down so you're like fucking what nineteen years old at this time yeah what how did they tell you like where you're going do they do they know how they do it in the SEAL Teams you kind of know like the entire fucking work yeah we're it's different because it's like you know they really utilize the chain of command and in the line company or the infantry units so somebody in my position you know I didn't know shit I just did what I was told and that was it I followed orders the way they let us know I guess you know as as it got closer to deployment date they called it tuned sergeants and the squad leaders and they you know sad all this guys down let him know we're going roughly about how long we were gonna be gone and they were in order to you know how you need to disseminate this information to your guys with all to see a laundry list of shit that needs to be done prior to deployment you know next of kin and you know you know living wills and shit like that shit that you normally like you don't really think about but that's the shit you really got to take care of before you leave yeah I mean did any of that shit even seem real at the time to hitch up what you were getting ready to go do at all no no no I don't think it hit me until I stepped off the bus and Kuwait oh yeah you got we're in Kuwait I've stepped off the bus and that fucking door open dude and it was like think of like when you open an oven door how that fucking dry heat just fucking hit you yeah that sort of felt like when the door to that bus open we got off and we looked around and we're like it's gonna be a long fucking summer all fucking hold on the world yeah yeah what did they did you have any fucking clue how dangerous how bad it was where you were going did they give you a briefing or or they just I mean this is where we're going get your shit ready this is when we leave dude honestly man we got there try can't remember the unit that we that we did left see right see with but they went out with us for a few days you know Don some convoys and stuff and they were and we've gotten like two engagements in the last six months it's been really quiet you know not really much to report you know they gave us what info they had but it was really not that Connecticut of an environment at that time no shit yep and then if you fast forward to a month or two into our deployment we were getting engagements every fucking day getting blown up by IEDs rocketed I mean you name it dude it was happening and there's a reason that that took place oh shit yeah well let's take a quick commercial break and we'll pick up right where we left off on your first combat deployment sometimes these episodes can be pretty long and they will always keep you on the edge of your seat rather than sit here and watch it alone why don't you head over to vigilance elite comm buy yourself some company and get some vigilance league gummy bears not bad all right we're back from the break and we left off you're on your first combat deployment with the infantry unit you guys did a turnover and they told you that everything's been pretty cool and calm and collected in the city and pretty inactive so let's go from there yeah so they basically tell us say you know we were just trying to gain the atmospherics as to what's going on and they told us you know hey it's been on an eventful you know and they showed us you know different different areas and you know in our area of operation you know points of interest and things like that but you know for the most part when they were like alright you guys got it you know they were like you guys got nothing really to worry about everything's good you know just you know mind your P's and Q's keep your eyes peeled kind of thing it wasn't wasn't even a week into the deployment where you know we got our first engagement you know just happened like that you know and at the time you had al-qaida was was in the area that's kind of who we were fighting at the time was al-qaida and you know they're always gonna test the waters they know when new units are coming in you know so they're gonna test the waters they're gonna see what you know what what they're dealing with here so long story short I think we're convoying from 1o p2 back to Camp Fallujah at the time or something like that I think we were like transporting that's what it was it was our company commander needed to go from one of our observation posts back to Camp Filosa for a big meeting with the general and we were the ones that were gonna be transporting him and providing security so you know we mount up we're going on this convoy and we're approaching you know we're going down I massage Chicago which is like the main route you know to get back to Camp Fallujah and there was an abandoned building you know kind of off to our right flank and God basically just jumped out of the you know one of the doorways of the abandoned building and just starts you know lighting up the convoy with an a k and you know we smoked his eye so it was just like you know he's stop the convoy CEO decides he wants to get out and check out the situation so we we clear the compound you know the abandoned house where that guy was in make sure the guy's you know dead and all that stuff and he proceeds to look at me and one of my head of comrades and he's like hey I'm go ahead and put the body on the hood on the hood of what on the hood of the number one Vic which was his vehicle he put a dead body on the hood of the lead vehicle he I was just as shocked as you are man I was like sir and he's like do what I fucking said put that dude on the fucking hood of my vehicle and so at that time you know we're rolling around and up-armored Humvees and we had we would do random vehicle check points like if we were in an area we wanted to start searching people we would have 50 yards of 50 feet of a constantiy Noir you know compressed you know essentially its razor wire barbed wire or whatever you want to call it we compress it you know call it up put it on the hood of the Humvee and strap it down so this way would we need it we just cut the straps pull it out and we never know we got our vehicle checkpoint and so we put this dude on the hood he had his dead guys bleeding all over the place he's all kind of tangled up in the end the see wire hold on let's backtrack here so how many fucking cars are in an infantry at this point I think we had four maybe five vehicles typically when we roll around as a platoon in that deployment it was four four Humvees but I think we had an extra one because it was the headquarters vehicle which was you know the CEO and then his personal radio guy and all that so okay I was expecting like 20 30 cars no this was a small convoy that's how he rolled around is pretty small and then this guy was just it was just a lone or just supposed to dude no no I don't know what like honestly man I don't know what the fuck was going through his head like you're one dude you got a convoy of fucking four or five Humvees but it didn't end well for how how close to the convoy uh man he was close to he was probably let him ease less than a hundred yards and invited two guests I'd say probably 70 70 80 yards okay that's farther so I'm guessing it was like usually when that happens everybody wants to pull the fucking trigger everybody pulled the trick okay just gotten into country it hadn't been a week and you've got young pfcs and lance corporals who've had all this training for the past year and finally have the opportunity you know eyes it so yeah everybody pretty much you know it all happened at once I mean it didn't last long but nonetheless yeah it was a little bit of overkill but so what you're 19 years old and you just got your first engagement and shot your first man and then threw him on the hood of the lead vehicle yeah we had boners up until we were told to put him on the vehicle and it kind of that's where you draw the line oh you're like wait boy this was a lot of fun but shit's getting a little weird yeah you know and from that day on now mind you this is a seven-month deployment this is not even a week into it in that point on that entire deployment we were engaged every single day every day every day if it wasn't a firefight it was being rocketed or RPG her IEDs it just it there was always something mortars incoming mortars like it definitely start the pot if you will how long is a how long is a deployment with the inventory seven months 7 months 7 months 7 times 30 what's that 210 that's 210 engagements at a minimum at a minimum dude I mean sometimes a bet there's times where yeah we like we would convoy I remember there was one day where we my my vehicle how the fuck I have all my fingers and toes to this day I don't know because I remember a specific day my vehicle I don't know how but by chance my vehicle got struck by an ie D three times in one day damn three fuckin times o one day what the fuck kind of vehicle were you riding around in well there's a lot of different variables that go into play with you know IEDs sometimes they bury them too far trigger man's not on you the you know detonation devices there's a lag in it it's not you know as accurate as they're hoping for it to be so we just lucked out man Wow I mean there was guys that definitely took shrapnel and got injuries and stuff but and those were some of the smaller IEDs I guess that I've encountered throughout my my time over there but I remember that man it was like it was kind of a running joke you know as my career progressed you know and I got to different units it was kind of like the running joke like yeah I don't want to be in his vehicle yes I was doing for getting blown the fuck up man that was when we were running vehicles overseas especially in Iraq that was that was the one thing that fucking scared the shit out of me and I think I think that was because you you have no control yeah you know that's right you have no control and you know people ask me all the time you know hey what do you think was worse Iraq or Afghanistan and I'm like it depends on what you know what we're talking about but in terms of like you know people getting wounded or killed I felt like Iraq because it was just they didn't really have much of a desire to fight you now granted they would they would initiate an ambush by detonating ie D and then follow up with some pop shots and a couple rounds and then they'd be gone and Afghanistan I mean you know just as well as I do those fuckers will sit up there and fucking man dresses and flip-flops and fight you in the mountains for days on top you'll be in a tick for hours yeah they were dedicated but the IEDs are really like that was for me too like you roll through marketplace and all of a sudden you see it's just a straight ghost town yeah like you know shits about to go down and at a time we're riding an up-armored Humvees like the high-back Humvees yeah which were you know their armor about that thick now granite is supposed to be titanium armor that comes up on the back of the Humvee you're sitting essentially in a pickup truck with armored sides on it but the armor only came up to about yay like about this high so your head still kind of sticking out so you roll in here you know on the mosque on the microphone of the mosque they're praying town is just complete ghost town you know shits about to go down and you're just like do you have translators yeah yeah we had some translators at the time so we're the mosques at that time were the mosques putting out Hey the Americans are running a convoy come kill them because they were doing that all over all over every a Oh s'mores I know yeah especially in that time frame and that's when the EF pees I believe o4 was one EF peas made an appearance which were the worst fuck and I never met that probably still to this day but well Nick I did a lot of research on you before he got here as much as I could it's kind of hard to research it because you don't post any shit anymore but I talked to a guy who was there with you and he told me a story that you guys were held up in a building and look at you you don't even know what fuck I'm like yeah which buildings do you like there's a lot of shit that I've like I don't remember yeah like you know my time overseas stuff that I but I'll get around guys that I've served with or buddies of mine and when they start talking like some of them's memories a lot better than mine you know maybe it's part in part to do with my TBI but they'll start talking and shit starts coming back to me like holy fuck I remember that well let me refresh your memory so we're taking fire from another building and you were in one of those bombed out fucking half built Iraqi houses and there was a small group of guys that was gonna go to the house that you guys are getting hit from and kill those fuckers they needed cover fire apparently the Marines that were on the roof at the time on the machine guns were being pussies and you ran up the stairs swatting the Marines off the fucking Sun right and man the machine gun and and then they went over and killed those fuckers so your buddy Dan Instagram handle 0 3 og yeah ring any bells yeah yeah Dan and I go way back man well I got him on the phone here oh no shit hey Dan how's it going man yeah thanks for coming on so I just gave a brief description of the story that we discussed on the phone a couple weeks ago and I got Nick sitting here so I'd like to hear this story from your angle and from Nick's angle so were you guys side by side when when the initial engagement happened you Nick shit so you fucking run to the roof and give them cover fire and Dan was able to go yeah they did we had a probably half a squad do a movement to contact you know when we took started taking fire and I was just you know trying to use up as many rounds as possible that we had up there how many guys Dan if you don't mind me asking how many guys were engaging you probably at least all in the same building and you and how many guys want to know kill five or six ounds like it yeah dan I think that I think it's safe to say that that deployment probably took your years off of our life do you get that I was saying it's it's safe to say that that deployment probably took a few years off of our lives you showed me a video right before we came up here of the first deployment and you guys got hit by I was Al Qaeda al Qaeda had coordinated an attack on the Iraqi TV station and you guys found that video on YouTube the video actually was yeah it got released on YouTube somehow like I know that our unit confiscated the the camera essentially these guys attack Iraqi police station was I've been abandoned by the Iraqi police if shit got so bad and ia Oh so we basically took it over and made it into observation post well we get to all of a sudden we get the call QRF QRF the police station is getting attacked so we roll up there and you can see the guys plain as day there's probably half a dozen deeds there you know PKM Sharpie K's RPGs you know just laying it down to the police station and we roll up you know flanked them and just you know do our thing and I guess the videoed got you confiscated now what point the video went from whoever's hands to met get it on YouTube it would have made it to be pretty famous you know pretty infamous attack on the so you have that video yeah yeah yeah yeah my squad was pretty like they're pretty lit like my squad had some problems like just the guys that were in that squad were just not they had a couple screws loose but it really benefited us for that deployment I can tell you that well I really appreciate you calling in Dan and you guys got anything to say each other for you on the call here yeah April I really appreciate it it was it was definitely a surprise and I want you to know I love you man thanks dude well hey Dan I really appreciate it man and I'll be in touch soon how'd that feel yeah it's crazy man like that guy like Dan and I I mean we did everything together dude like we were like inseparable like yeah just good dude you know everything everything ever since we were in the same company in boot camp we're the same platoon you know all through school of infantry we're in the same platoon all through you know second times second Marines that whole deployment I've got some good memories man some really good memories you know you know at that time you know got some some great memories and some not-so-great memories you know what the things that we experienced but that's pretty cool man I was surprised that you uh you had him on the hook there yeah I talked to him a couple weeks ago and he told me that story and I was like holy shit I mean you know you came here and I think you were a little intimidated because of some of the guys who sat in that seat but I mean just that one story that he told me out of the you know I mean fuck that a little that deployment alone what do we just say you had 20 210 engagements at a minimum and you yanked a fucking turret off a machine gun and put yourself in harm's way too so that your buddies could go and fucking kill the insurgents that we're trying to kill you and uh I mean that's people don't do that shit so you know that's a pretty fucking heroic heroic yeah I mean at the time I didn't feel it was euro akai still dough I mean I feel like I mean it's just one of those things man it's like instinct kicks in and that's what I've said for the longest time like guys that that work in the soft community that do like do what you did and do it you know what I did and stuff like that can't be taught you know having that natural instinct to react and to do what needs to be done you can't train for that like it's just you either gonna do it or you're not you're either gonna be the guy taking cover or you're gonna be the guy that's suppressive are to make sure that your guys you know your squad your platoon your team whatever it may be you know doesn't get whacked so yeah well for those of you listening who want to know who Dan is you can check them out on instagram at 0 3 - OG and there's some interesting stuff on there yeah but so moving forward in that deployment I was really pumped about that phone call and I wanted to get him on here and reconnect you guys cuz that's probably been a minute and but is there anything else that was a major event that happened on that first deployment there's so much stuff that happened man but uh it all just kind of runs together I learned a lot that was the most important thing is that you know that deployment for me really helped set me up for the soft world you know it it gave me an appreciation that most guys that don't get to experience that lifestyle or being part of an infantry unit you know comes with so you know I'm grateful for that that's my roots that's why I came from you know I didn't start out you know as a soft team guy started out as a ground pounder as an infantry guy I get dudes that hit me up all the time and like whether it's young guys that are getting ready to go into the military or guys that have done a few years in the military is infantry who are getting ready to transition they're gonna go to take assessment selection you know to go to MARSOC or whatever and they'll hit me up and they'll say hey do you have any commendations you know and I tried to tell I try to give them tips and pointers and stuff but the biggest thing is you can never be too prepared you know go prepared you know yeah so let's move forward then so then at some point you decided you wanted to move into MARSOC mm-hm and become a Raider so let's let's revisit that experience yeah so well at the time Marine Raider wasn't even a thing and now granted the marine Raiders goes dates back to World War two right the Marine Corps has been conducting special operations for as long as they've been you know around now it wasn't until 2006 where we were taken under the wing of SOCOM and became what is now known as MARSOC the Marine Special Operations Command or the marine Raiders at the time it was still just the old force reconnaissance companies and it was a totally different format on how these companies were laid out in terms of the teams and all that I didn't know really anything about it I just know that my company commander pulled us like a select few from the company you know I remember how many guys it was but it was like probably 20 30 dudes from the company and he said hey there's a reason you're here I have you know basically requested that you individuals come here and it's because I want to provide you with an opportunity that's out there and that is to go and be a part of this MARSOC unit as security platoon now the time we're you know we're young dude we just got back from our first deployment and we're looking around each other going what's MARSOC you know at the time we were already counting down the days to win our our first term was up because life sucks so bad on that first deployment and just with that infantry unit like you were just looked at as another number so it's like we had already made our minds up that were getting now but this opportunity had been presented to us hey you can take an in doc and try out to go and if you make it there's good things to come so at that point really I have shit to lose I just knew that life was miserable where I was at and I wanted to change I wanted an opportunity to kind of better myself and so I did it took the you know the little screening and in doc that they had ended up making it and went over to MARSOC as part of the trailer slash charitable tune and essentially what our job was to do is basically provide security for the dowel platoon which was basically short acronym dice are being direct action special reconnaissance we would provide security for those guys when they're going in to do raids or do a hit on a house or something we would be the ones main in the the heavy guns the machine guns you know with our experience and so you guys were like a blocking force essentially essentially were essentially squirters making sure there were those squirters making sure if there any reinforcements that came in while our art teams were boots on the ground and you know we're inside you know whatever compound or house that we were hitting you know just making sure that they could go in there and do what they needed to do without wording worrying about the outer cordon okay so real quick for the audience a squirter get your mind out of the gutter but a squirter is basically when a unit hits a house or a compound or whatever it may be the people that are bad that are in that compound that run and try to get away from destiny of blocking forces there to basically eliminate them so that they don't get away and fuck another unit up so we call that squirt or Patrol or a blocking force yep so you see you're a blocking force for varying special operations and so basically you're hand selected yeah essentially you know when I got there I mean dude we had the that was the longest work up prior to deployment I have ever done I mean we shot I can't tell you how many thousands of rounds of ammo different shooting packages to training different training packages and stuff it was all you know really great training that making me an element leader you know during that time so I had you know had a fireteam under me that I you know that we deployed together in all odds did you work with the spec ops unit as an infantryman yes yeah like while we were there everything was kind of like whatever training they conducted we were conducting and we were everything we did was together because ultimately by the end of that work up we needed to be meshed as one because we were gonna be I mean were there helping each other you know so yeah everything that's that was cool for us as infantry guys that went over we had gotten training that we had never even dreamed of ever getting I mean going to Hawthorne Nevada doing you know high-altitude shooting and we went up to you know Fort Campbell and trained with yeah I think it's fifth group whoever it was that we were training with and you know training with you know little birds and you know Apaches and stuff like that you know calling for air and you know engaging targets and stuff like that just stuff that we had never really thought we'd get the chance to do and it was cool we got to do all that stuff the biggest difference you know from infantry transitioning over to MARSOC was the funding yeah when I came up in the Marine Corps was always do do what you can make do with you can with very little like we always did the most we possibly could with a little bit that we had and we went to Mars Hawk we had all the ammo we needed we had the weapons we needed we had the gear that we needed you know all that stuff so it was a totally different world how long after the turn how long after you were hand selected to do security for MARSOC or with MARSOC or reconnaissance at the day was it when we went over is when it turned when it was turned a MARSOC milk that was in 2006 okay how long after you got there did you deploy again with that unit well yeah that was I got there soon as we got to MARSOC it wasn't but maybe two weeks and we rolled right into a workup and now it was a nine-month workup and I'm talking we did everything oh shit nine minutes nine months and you're working with the operators yeah yeah essentially working with the operators you know different school we went we had a school phase where guys were tossed out to go to different schools and learn different things and then once that phase was over we come back together and we train together collectively as a unit how did they receive you guys were they they hated us they fucking hated they fucking hated us you're a blocking force for them they when they fucking hated you yeah like they hated us I'm trying to remember a guy that I later down the road ended up becoming friends with he's very well known guy in the community but he hated us with a fucking passion he's like basically I remember one day he's like you know he's talking to one his buddies he's like man he's got these dudes are like little fucking Iraqis why are they even here you know they just didn't want us there and the reason being is that we didn't come up the way that they did you know when they graduated the school of infantry they may have went right directly to you know brca the base of reconnaissance course or amphibious reconnaissance school and we just didn't we didn't go that same pipeline we didn't go and honestly to them like we just were not up to par you know we we didn't we couldn't do what they did because we didn't have the training and the experience we just weren't as good as them you know yeah but you weren't doing what they were doing it's just one of those one of those things man the egos were flying around and you know and and we just kind of kept their mouth shut we knew that we were the new kids on the block and we didn't really you know have what they had and but we knew that our time would come our time was gonna come where we could prove ourselves and we would be looked at as an asset and that time did come you know so you're going to deployment where you headed till all a bad Afghanistan no Jay Pat old Jay bass a nice town so you're in j-bad and what what's the mission because it's a sounds like infantry was a lot of presence patrols and and kind of PSD work yeah yeah I ranking individuals yeah now you're attached to a SOCOM soft unit which you know mission is completely different yeah totally different I mean it's I mean it's not like you're you we're not out there doing like things like presence patrols and you patrolling the area just to kind of gain atmospherics every time you went outside of the wires with a purpose yeah we're running missions you know you know very planned how you know down to the Nats ask detailed missions you know running raids and doing you know big sweeps of villages where we're going through and you know it might be rolling through a you know Taliban you know infested village you like that word infested yeah so it was very different though in our mission again was to provide security for the diester platoon that was our pretty much our main goal there making sure that they you know could do what they needed to do man and the heavy guns setting a cordon you know all that stuff but it was for for more more or less direct action raids and stuff of that yeah HT T's and shit yeah focusing on HP T's or at some point they changed to hv eyes because HP T's wasn't politically correct or whatever but no picture figure yeah how did the op tempo change was it we're yet still engaged getting in engagements every night or did it kind of change a little bit it changed it wasn't that deployment at first it wasn't really quite as kinetic I mean we did get in some engagements but it wasn't as reoccurring as it was we did have lots of get lots of radio traffic you know cell phone traffic that we were tracked and they were planning on taking over our compound you know breaching the walls and taking over so that was always there in addition to you know being out outside of the wire when we're doing missions it whatnot but we we did get engaged and ultimately you know as sad as it is to say that deployment got cut a little bit sure because that was the very first MARSOC company to deploy to Afghanistan that was like since Mark stock had been stood up we were the first ones to go here is this this is we left in the beginning of 2007 okay and we ended up getting kicked out of country I've heard about this incident so I've heard about this incident the first the first MARSOC unit to deploy under SOCOM and I heard it was a fucking shit show yeah to say the least man it was a fox company and I mean I was working at the time under pride the most were one of the most respectable officers within the force reconnaissance MARSOC community at the time major Fred Galvin was our company commander and you know he basically he knew what the fuck we were there to do and you know unfortunately the incident that happened that resulted in us getting kicked out of the country it ruined careers his being one of them just completely ruined guys careers what was the incident so those guys recently got exonerated this has been years so think from 2007 to when they got exonerated in 2019 that's the amount of time it took it's fuckin 12 years 12 years dude by this point their careers have went down the drain and now they're just trying to save what's left of their lives yeah but ultimately it was a vehicle-borne IEDs that struck her convoy and we were being engaged from you know multiple different compounds you know around us and Marines doing what they are trained to do you know start to push out of the kill zone and engage the threat at some point in time somebody I know I don't know if this is a tactic that was used by the Taliban at that time saying that there were there were you know innocent civilians that had gotten killed as a result of this but it it went up to the top of the flagpole man and it was a huge investigation on why these Marines basically killed innocent civilians in Afghanistan everybody kind of forgot the fact that what initiated this engagement was it was a car bomb yeah you know a car bomb was driven into one of our vehicles on the convoy and we did what we were trained to do yeah I remember hearing about that and yeah it spoke of operations handles shuttle up differently and it's a lot more surgical and it was very yeah I'll give you an example man like those either haven't been Afghanistan before you probably wouldn't know this but like there were times where we'd go outside of the wire to 0and different weapons you know go out go out test the the mark-19 test 50 cals make sure everything was working properly knowing that we had an upcoming mission dude those little kids their little Afghan kids they would literally be sitting there off the side of the Humvee as you know we're engaging you know targets you know or just you know at the range or whatever and they would be sitting there collecting the brass so I remember you know one of the investigators of some high-ranking you know officer who didn't know what the fuck he was talking about because he had never been in combat before it was like well you guys say that you were engaging enemy combatants that were firing from you you know we went back days later we didn't find any spent brass on on the ground and we're like well no fucking shit because it's been collected you know so somebody that hasn't been a pianist and wouldn't know that or hasn't been you know in combat for say yeah well I mean it's really easy for these fuckheads - you know back seat quarter back seat quarter back an entire event and you know they don't even know what the fuck it feels like to get rocked by an IAD then you throw in you know I brought up the kids and this reminded me I remember when I was in Afghanistan they were taking kids and filling their bicycle tires with explosives and they would have the kids ride their bike towards the convoy and start detonating their fucking bicycles yeah and you've got people that are you know they're wearing the the the man jammies attire and they'll clack rounds atcha you know laugh at you with an A k and then hide the a K under their under their fuckin clothes because they're so baggy and when all this shit's happen and all at once it can be real fucking hard to ID in pinpoint exactly where the threats coming especially when it's coming from fucking everywhere yeah and I mean they would have guys dressed up like women yeah burkas weren't a suicide vest the well fucking building down and and then you got some fucking jag that comes in and you know backseat quarterbacks the whole fucking thing and ruins careers and lives and yeah fucking sucks so so you went home and we went home and that was uh it was tough you know after a nine-month workup you know it was really tough to to come to terms with the fact that like a lot was that sucked but also it was kind of it sucked for us because all of SOCOM you know is looking at us through a microscope at that time you know to see what are the Marines gonna do yeah like how are they gonna perform on their very first deployment and it was just a complete you know in the eyes of the time and the eyes of SOCOM it was a complete flop and that was in j-bad that happened yeah I had heard that was in Kabul Kabul was in Kabul it was in Kabul yeah okay we yeah we were working in j-bad and and caught what the time though we were we were operating right out a Kabul airbase there and that's where it happened how long were you guys in country like how long was that deployment I think from it ended up like from start to finish it maybe ended up being like a hundred days oh shit okay maybe 120 days yeah they got cut real short man maybe 120 days tops yeah I still you know when you guys got home how was the morale with everybody morale was low dude morale was real low we didn't know what was gonna happen with the guys that were under investigation you know we did we really didn't know what what the future was gonna hold for them and there was a lot of changes made like when we got back from that deployment they completely did away with the whole format of the company you know where you had your trailer / security platoon you had your dice or platoon that worked together that went away I completely went away so at that point it was like all right so all you guys that came over from secretary ii range don't really have a purpose for you anymore so he need to go home so he going back to the grunts well that's what most of the guys ended up doing got sent back there was a select few of us that they I don't know I mean I don't know how it happened or why it happened essentially I guess you know some of the guys you know the company commander and a sergeant from that - platoon you know saw something in a few of us that you know he really liked and thought that we could you know you know I don't like what I just said but anyways I think what you're trying to says you just got fucking hand selected for a second time to to stay but on permanent orders as a actual operator yes yeah now and that was unto thee I don't want to say agreement but it was basically like hey you're getting orders here but you're gonna get schooled the fuck out because we understand that yes you've got some combat experience yes yes we feel like you know you're gonna asset to the battalion but we need to get you up to speed you know things that you know we don't really get as infantry you know do you know how fucking big that is like seriously you get fuckin hand selected to go to a essentially the blocking force for special operation in Special Operations MARSOC you did that you did a three month deployment whatever the fuck you did in that three months must have been pretty badass because then you were hand selected again to come on as a fucking operator yeah without going through yeah the selection course was just to put this shit in perspective for you like all the way up to the top level it fucking dev group and CAG you screen to go there they don't fucking they're not out there hand selecting everybody you might get a push like hey you mom you might want to fuck and go scurrying and go to dev group they had a dev group doesn't come fucking find you you know so yes I just want to say that did you ever think about at the time no dude and you know it's weird because at that time we were at a weird transition from force reconnaissance to MARSOC so there was still a lot of unknown we were still going through a lot of growing pains at the time there was no individual training course which is like our cue course nine-month training pipeline that you go through to become a critical skills operator there was no course there was no assessment selection so there was no real option at that point I could have went to BRC but in that point recon battalion was going to remain as part of the second as the Marine Regiment and MARSOC was gonna be part of so calm so that training at BRC was kind of it wasn't completely relevant I mean because it didn't include a lot of the training that's that you need to have to become a CSO or a critical skills operator while I did have some of the amphibious training and stuff like that and a land map piece of what not it just wasn't and that's why they developed a much longer in-depth course being the individual training course so yeah at that time I was essentially I got grandfathered and you know went to schools and stuff like that so but it was at the time I didn't really think of it the way you just put it you know yeah well you know that's most guys don't think about that because we're some was a humble and you know some of us are but I would say the majority guys are pretty fucking humble and but you know there's a perspective Floria that you probably never thought about and should be fucking pretty proud that you were hand selected to become the fucking plank owner of what wound up becoming MARSOC yeah how long was how many different schools did you go to and and how long was it before you wound up deploying again well so shortly after shortly after getting back from the deployment with Fox Company I basically re-injured reactivated a prior injury from my first deployment I was involved in a IET rollover incident basically where my Humvee was flipped I broke my back and I had multiple ended up needing multiple spine surgeries as a result of it so that kind of put a kink in the plan of that whole school phase while I did manage to get into a couple schools you know when I reinjure you know I think I was at one of the schools it was like one of my PME courses which I don't know if you guys did that in Navy but like your professional military education courses like the shit that you're required to have in order to get promoted to the next rank i scammed out of those did you and you got lucky we had do they were like anal like you you were going that didn't matter how cool you thought you were what you had under your belt like you were fuckin going so I reinterred my you know reactivated my injury at that at that course and you know had to go you know I had to get surgeries and stuff like that so I was rehabbing man and you know a lot of people didn't notice but at the time like my wife and I had a child who had some severe medical issues you know he was eating through a feeding tube and he was really young man he's only like three or four months old and all we knew is that he had some issues going on and we were trying to get to the bottom of that and like figure out okay what's going on my son I mean we're traveling all over the country you know Cincinnati Children's Hospital Duke University UNC Chapel Hill you know going to see all these doctors and specialists to perform these different procedures and stuff with my son and different tests and stuff to figure out what was going on so at the time my leadership you know the command thought it was in the best interest of myself and my family to get orders to the marine Special Operations school house I'd be taken out of a deployer will bill it and put it over at the schoolhouse for a term and that would afford me the time needed to be able to want to rehab to get back to full duty and then to to give me the time I needed to be able to take my son to these different you know appointments and stuff like that and figure out what was going on with him and dude that was probably I'd say that time frame was probably the hardest time out of my whole military career even at some of the shittiest times during my deployments like I think that time was probably one of the one of the hardest times of my my military career yeah so you're you're rehabbing you're back you're trying to figure out what's going on with your son oh yeah and I'm going through a divorce you're you're going through a divorce yeah and then on top of that you're dealing with all the combat stress that you know comes with the with the job and that's a lot of that's that's a lot to deal with a whole lot so what what happened with your son how's he doing now ha did it like my son he is light years I had to where he was at that time I mean did they didn't think you would walk hey there's a lot of unknown he has been diagnosed with autism he has been diagnosed with cerebral palsy which were they were good things we got answers we wanted to know what what was going on why is my son this way but ultimately he has gotten the care and the treatment that he needed he's progressed like I said light years ahead of where he is and he's good I mean he's he's good to go he's come off the feeding tube he's eating enough food by mouth to sustain his weight he does speech occupational and physical therapy every week he goes to a school that's specifically for kids with special needs so he's doing great he's doing awesome that's awesome yeah I can't even that's a lot to go through yeah dude and the thing that that really fucked with my head the most was during that time you know I got sent to the schoolhouse specifically for the reason - hey this is gonna give you the time you need to get back to full duty take care of your son get your life on track but people under - the leader my leadership didn't always understand that guys that I was close to you understood what was going on but for the guys that didn't know what was going on you know his tough man I'd go you know fly up to Cincinnati Children's Hospital for two weeks with my son and my soon-to-be ex-wife - you know they'll have this procedure for my son I might show back up to work and I'd have God be like how cool is it's nice to you to come back to work when your kid gets sick again and so that shit really fucked with me man like it it it hurt because I knew that like I already felt bad enough I already had that guilt trip of not being there it was already bad enough being at the schoolhouse and being pulled from you know the team so fuck but uh you know so there was a little bit of a gap in time between that 2007-2008 deployment till my next deployment you know I did a term at the schoolhouse and then I was sent to the regiment I ended up coming back to full duty three spine surgeries later I'm still jumping out of airplanes I'm still you know rockin I'm still all the shit that you know doctors told me you're never gonna be able to put an 80 pound rock on your back again and walk you know it's just you're not gonna be able to do that and I just wasn't hearing that noise you know I would see some of the statements that would come back from the hospitals like for my son's treatments and shit and did it Astrakhan astronomical amounts of money like and I'm thinking to myself if I get out because of this injury I'm never gonna be able like what are we gonna do who's gonna pay for this I'm not even you know if I get out insurance companies might not even cover my son because he's got him now a pre-existing condition so that was my motivation to come back to full duty physical therapy on base wasn't doing shit for me I fucking hired a personal trainer out of fucking sports rehab facility that trained fucking athletes and I went in there fucking put my goddamn medical record on the fucking table that was about that thick at the time and I told him here's my deal this is what I do here's my situation I need to get from where I'm at back to this and I paid out of pocket at this sports rehab facility to get back to full duty had that not happened do you think he would have separated at that time what's that had what had had your son been taken care of or did not have the medical issues do you think he would have separated it's tough to say man because yeah that my son was a big to that decision but also I wasn't ready to drop my pack yeah I just wasn't ready you know I hadn't gotten that monkey off my back yet you know so you went back to war yeah yeah basically man at the first opportunity I was given I was working I was working at the at the regiment under a master gunnery sergeant I'll get old Frank and I told him I said look I don't give a fuck what it takes man if there's any opportunity to get back into a team um like sign me up I'm ready like and sure enough we had a good buddy of mine who was actually deployed at the time with Fox Company who was deployed with them and he stepped on a pressure plate ie D and lost his leg and I needed to combat replacements somebody to go over there you know quick fast in a hurry to cover down on his his duties so I volunteered for that went over 2013 I went over this time it was went to Kabul province and essentially finished out the deployment there shortly before coming home the unit that was coming over to replace Fox Company Golf Company was getting ready to come and do turnover and I got an email from a master guns back stateside and said hey we've got an 18 charlie with this team whose wife is having some serious medical complications he's not going to be able to make the deployment would you have any interest in cross decking it would help us out tremendously so that turned into that you know four month deployment well it was left of that deployment anyways ended up being four months for me that four month deployment turned into like an 11 month deployment holy eleven fucking months yeah with you didn't come back once I came I went back at that time I didn't know I was gonna be cross decking yeah and I had like my house and shed back home that I needed to like I mean I I just wasn't administrative leap repaired to be gone for that long and I said hey those guys aren't here yet let me fly home for a week let me just get all that stuff you know under wraps make sure it's good to go and I'll come back so I went home for about a week and a half fuck and then came back and jumped right into a team that I had never worked with now granted I knew I knew a few the guys in the team I had been through different shooting packages and demo packages and shit like that working with these guys but for the most part I was like the new guy on the block so yeah technically went from the training house to right in the fucking thick of it yeah as I mean it's your first technically your first deployment as a special operations operator from MARSOC yeah yeah so it always looked at you know like look the guy for the guys that knew me and that team they were excited to have me there because they knew you know what I was about but for the guys that didn't know me is like who the fuck is this guy you know so that first month of that deploy him a lot it was having to kind of prove myself you know a lot of you know showing that out I was there you know to contribute to the team and to do bad things to bad people yeah what was the what was the OP temple on this deployment that up temp the tempo of that deployment was just insane no shit we had that's probably I'd have to say that deployment was probably the most fun I've ever had and earlier yeah I mean it's just that was the correlation of like the years of training and blood sweat tears everything that you put into you know you know the training and workups getting ready for deployments and then that just having that opportunity being presented with being able to utilize all that training and that's those skill sets in a real life you know real world life kind of thing what was the primary mission was it we were there doing fed you know we had our host nation forces we were running commandos we were running na SF which for those who are not familiar its Afghan National Army but they're Special Forces so we stood up a curriculum in a pipeline for the commandos that wanted to go like a Special Forces RAL and get more training and we literally trained those guys on everything how how many guys are there because sometimes we did fit and fit was like fucking one Iraqi it's all Iraqi dude we had to we had two platoons attached to us well they were living in the same compound as us so you're like doing the SF yes Bard yeah now and that turned into like that fed mission turned in more like direct action special reconnaissance type missions you know our job was to be there to mentor advise the Afghan National Army to ensure that they had the training they needed to be able to take the wheel it doesn't always work out that way now but during that time I mean we were at a VSP village stability platform kind of in the middle of nowhere in Herat province right and where we were man it was just surrounded by villages that were nothing but Taliban so if we weren't outside the wire getting in engagements there rocketing the shit out of us and you know doing stuff like that so it was we stayed busy and even like the guys in that that team like they didn't like to have nothing to do they want they were always wanting to work yeah just everybody had like crazy work ethic and just was ready to go we knew that that deployment was that was kind of the end of the line now that deployment was essentially right before the plug was pulled and the majority of forces were pulled out of Afghanistan and we knew that all the bsp were getting D mailed and tore down and all that stuff I know this from when we were working before and I've heard you know you talk about it and I've seen the video but a major event happened that you were involved in again that you can essentially take credit for so let's go over what happened there we got we basically got tasked with going through you know got tasked by siege so if they wanted us to go in and do a sweep through this village where they had Intel saying that there were some ie D facilitators and and guys that were running ID and weapons facilitators and guys that were running back and forth from Afghanistan and Iran guys were coming back and forth when they came back that was essentially the area where all these weapons and I edu making material were being disseminated to Taliban so we were you know tasked with going through doing a full sweep in this village searching everything it was supposed to be like a two-day op and we were gonna walk in because at that time there aw are there early warning signals were just they were good they knew every day if we left the wire they knew we were coming if you know they would have you know a little brevity codes you know the wolves are coming the wolves were coming you can hear on the cell phone chatter and so he said you know what fucker we're gonna walk you see you fucking humped in yeah we've got him you know we had I mean you talk in two days two days worth of shit in Iraq and then you think two days all well just pack some skivvies and socks now he need fucking batteries you need chow you need enough ammo or if shit hits the fan you're not gonna go Winchester so we're loaded the fuck down fuck in assets or was is an hours air or at that for that mission we didn't have there was no cure we were out there on our own dude I was we were I think 60 miles from the closest base so we were on our own there was no QRF occasionally we would have I saw stuff like that but for that that one we did not know shit not until the daytime so we walk in at night once we get into the village you know we basically holed up in a compound wait for daylight daylight comes we come out of the compound everybody goes their positions and we start our sweep wasn't even ten minutes I started taking fire at this point we had three elements all three elements were split into different positions my element we slipped into a compound the closest compound that we could find to take cover and basically we we fought from the compound where you know they were from all different directions you know we cut out murder holes in the walls of this compound I got up on the roof for a lot of these houses in Afghanistan the way they took you structure there essentially mud huts you know they're they're hard not hard as concrete but they're big mud huts and they've got these giant domes on the top almost like fighting positions and so that's what I did I I yeah you know got up on the top of the roof and you know started engaging you know targets and you can see the guys were running back and forth and you know popping out of doorways and buildings and stuff like that so yeah I was up on the roof they kind of honed in on my position you know you could see like where I was kind of tucked in between these two domes I'll put my head down and you could see like rounds would be like ricocheting off the top of the dome and at this time I had a helmet camera on and I'm just kind of I went back and looked at the footage afterwards and it's like I'm sitting there I think but yes weird sometimes it's a good feeling when you're getting shot at cuz dude it's like you know what it's about to happen yeah yeah so it just so happened that my team leader happened to be with my element when that went down he just happened to be with us as we were doing a sweep and he's down inside the compound and he's on the fucking hook with our jtac trying to get air assets on the line to get him to come in and he's like dude you need to come down you need to come down so I come down off the roof and we had three murder holes you know dug out different different sides of this compound one on each side and so he's like hey if you want you know go in there with so-and-so and you know just just man the murder hole just you know see what's going on so for a while there there was a lull in fire who wasn't really shit going on it got quiet went from just like shit was going off everywhere to just stopped so my buddy's like hey man I need to piss you might just you know keep an eye on my yeah good so you know I'm in this murder hole I'm just sitting here and I'm watching and all of a sudden I see two dudes on a motorcycle halt and ass they're trying they're coming on and they're trying to flank us this way I don't know if they had another another element or something that they were staged that we were trying to get they were trying to get to or what but I could see when they were haulin ass they both had man jams and both had a case strapped to their backs which they were just in a firefight like here military-age male you're on a motorcycle and you've got an a cage strapped to your back like no fair game well as I'm in this you know I'm looking through this murder hole I didn't catch the guys in this motorcycle until I got about to my my right-lateral limit if you will or to my or my field of view was cut off so immediately the instinct kicks in again I haul ass my buddy's getting he's coming from using the bathroom back into the room where we were and I'm like push him out of the way my move and I'm haulin ass and I was trying to make it to the other side of the compound so I can get into the other murder hole to see where they were going so at the time we had one of our commandos was was he was in that room and I go in there I'm like hey let me get in your meeting here so I get in and sure enough they're still coming and you know I just engaged sing around each guy first one launched the the jogger the motorcycle off the motors like we're really close range I don't think they realized that we had murder holes dug out and they didn't see anybody on the roof anymore so I think they took that as a window of opportunity to make a run for it you think they thought you were dead they don't I don't think they thought I was dead they could have thought that they may have thought that but they all they know is that there was nobody else on the roof returning fire because when I was up there I'd pop up over the dome you know turn some shots get back down well good 20 minutes went down went up went by where I wasn't up on the roof so I think they saw that as their window of opportunity to either try to get away or try to get to another position or whatever they were trying to do and essentially they got cut off yeah so I engage both targets and then the fire starts again like both the let me back up engage both targets now let our team leader know large ATAC know hey we've got two guys down over here on a motorcycle all right we'll check it out what range was it like how close we were prior like 50 yards 50 yards not even okay not even know that I'm thinking of it it's probably closer like 35 yards oh fuck it was close okay yeah they were real close to the building and where the road was they were trying to trying to go by and he flew off the fucking bike the first dude the first guy so the first guy that I engaged was the driver of the motorcycle because that was I wanted to stop the motorcycle so he was the first one I engaged literally that was my first time ever shooting a guy a bad guy in combat with a scar heavy so I know we've got a lot of people either love or you hate to scar I'm not a huge fan of it but well I'll tell you what at close range is pretty impressive so yeah essentially kind of launched this guy off the motorcycle before the motorcycle could fall over the guy in the back tried to stand up as the motorcycles fallen over and about the same time his feet hit the ground as when I pulled the trigger on the second shot and took him out as well shit so you must have hit him from the side then yeah yeah they were coming from the side so I hit him both from the side yeah fuck and there just one shot one shot dude that's all it took that's all it took goddamn one shot on each that was a fuck and so moving forward we we had a couple casualties we had a medevac bird in route but because we're at it was too hot we needed to link up with the other element who then had the casualties we needed to link up with them which is like five five hundred yards away to another compound to be able to provide security so that the bird the medevac bird could lay in and pick up our casualties how many Kent were they Americans over they we had to I want to say to Afghans and one American yeah it's to two Afghan National Army guys and you know one u.s. coalition guy yeah none of them were severe but severe enough to where we needed to call a medevac so we exit the compound you know we stood we know everything that by this point an hour or so is gone by with no fire we go to exit the compound we don't make it you know hundred yards we start getting engaged again they were just LAN yeah they were waiting for us to move and this time they were behind a wall and they had pecans our bouquets oh shit I mean the whole nine luckily where we were at the time was close to a little irrigation ditch and so you're talking to hook like an element of you know six probably like six soft guys and then like another dozen commandos and we're all like crawling through this ditch and I distinctly remember laying facedown in this ditch and my rook mind you I packed out my ruck like I was gonna need it for two full fucking days this was supposed to be a 48-hour mission so I'm crawling through this ditch and I can feel rounds impacting my rucksack which I do still have the rucksack oh shit yeah so I could feel the rounds impacting and right in front of me is our JTAC they weren't hitting your fucking gummy bears or they oh dude that would have been fucking game over so I kept those on my person yeah first line so JTACs right in front of me and he's on the hook you know he's trying to get get Apaches to come in and what 9 we're pinned down and I could I'm sitting there and I remember being in boot camp and having to go through the little course that they had with like you know barbed wire little things and you're crawling through the mud and they're like drag your face drag your face and you're like thinking to yourself at the time when the fuck am I ever really dragging my face and the fucking mud like what and at that time I was dragging my fucking face dude that's how low I was I was trying to get so small and that little ditch because I could feel his rounds impacting you know my ruck and I was like man a couple inches lower and that they're gonna hit me yeah all of a sudden this makes sense yeah yeah so I'm dragging my fucking face and sure enough fucking patchi's fucking come in and just start doing gun runs no shit I'm talking danger-close cuz I'm I'm literally in the irrigation ditch right behind our JTAC and I can hear him saying I don't give a fuck if we're danger clothes fucking engage so it was this daytime or nighttime this is daytime oh fuck this is daytime there's a two patches come in and they're just fucking destroying everything and how close like less than 100 fucking yards okay yeah like yeah it'll make your asshole pucker up if it even more than I already yeah yeah so but that that was like so that happened they engaged the enemy eliminate the enemy and we keep going we link up at the other compound medevac bird comes in and then we end up you know leaving I think it was the following afternoon we had a team meeting in the talk and we're kind of going around the horn getting Intel reports from our Intel analysts and different things you know trying to just everybody's keeping up to speed and my team sergeant was like yep so just so you know k-fed you got Dead Milkmen everybody's like what Dead Milkmen was number three on the hvi list at the time he'd been getting tracked for multiple deployments multiple SEAL Teams multiple OTAs China if I can get this guy and it just so happened by chance he was one of the guys on that motorcycle and you fucked him down him apparently I got him and you were the only shooter yeah only shooter nobody else saw him because unless you were looking through that murder whole damn didn't you wouldn't have been able to see him so you fucking took out number three and I met the Rhine yeah I think number three has what like a two or three-week life expectancy for a long time but I mean it's the fucking number three that's how'd that feel fuck it man felt really good at that time I had already been accepted in the team like I'd make friends those guys were awesome like we had been through shit together already but that felt really good and the only way we found out was you know just as well as I do like in that culture there they they are supposed to bury their dead within 24 hour time frame and the way we found out is by that afternoon after we had left cuz that happened about mid-morning by late that afternoon there was like 350 to 400 people there for a little like funeral service for the burial of Dead Milkmen how did the fuck so pious our feed basically they were able to ID him from that he hasn't taken his skin or fucking hair from her hair yeah yeah we took hair samples and stuff so between that and then you know all the Intel we got you know I saw her and stuff like that show on the funeral and everything they all that all the cell phone chatter and stuff that was going on between the locals and the people there we had gotten Dead Milkmen fuck man yeah well I'll bet they're glad they hand selected you for that so otherwise that motherfucker might still be running around especially since everybody was already after him you know and that's how it is to all the fucking units are competing with each other you know it's the fucking seals are competing with MARSOC remember everybody's we're all just a competitive nature guys you know were just all China and it was just one of those things dude right place right Tom I didn't do anything that anybody else wouldn't it done or wasn't like I you know did anything special to get in that position I just happen to be in the right place the right time and you know knew I was I knew I was engaging somebody that was a threat didn't know who was though was a fucking huge threat yeah was it the driver of the motorcycle or the passenger did you know Hoss injure he was being at come to find out it was like he was being escorted out of the area I'll be damned I think it's safe to say that that up was probably the highlight of that deployment for me anyways for me personally that was like the highlight of that deployment essentially highlight of my career I mean it's it's when everything comes together the years and years of training and you know dedication you put forth - what our job entails and you have the ability to utilize that you know over there that's like doesn't get better than that you know I mean yeah well I mean I could definitely see how that would be the highlight I'm getting rid of number three um you got rid of another number three yeah we we went on we that deployment I was about halfway through that deployment and again it was a very successful deployment like we did a lot of shit we ended up you know killing some other age you know high high value individuals you know before we left so if you gauge our success by that like we we went there and did what we were required to do or expected to do I should say and then packed our bags went home yeah it sounds like you guys were operating at the at the fucking apex of what anybody any operator could dream of and that's fucking awesome man yeah absolutely that's a good way to put it for sure for sure that was very the satisfaction factor was definitely there you're doing everything you put the time in in the blood and the sweat and the tears to do and then and then you go home and how was that so you go home this is where shit starts to fall apart yeah you know everybody the modern day guys are the guys that are getting out more recently they start hearing these stories about the transition and I think it's probably the most dreaded part of your life that that that these guys have to look forward to yeah yeah when they get out but yeah the transition for me it was extremely challenging you know when I got back from that deployment you know a couple months that went by and I started noticing that I was experiencing things and you know having just certain scenarios and situations and symptoms I guess you could say I don't know what the fuck was wrong with me you know I didn't know what was going on you know I had I mean I would have like these fits of rage where I would just go from like zero to a hundred like that you know severe migraines headaches I mean straight up like debilitating felt like he couldn't fucking do anything I mean I remember there was a point where just driving to work you know driving to to the battalion in the morning you know I'd have to pull off the side of the road and throw up couldn't tell you why holy SH I couldn't tell you why now I didn't really all this shit was happening and you know the depression set in and all that stuff and I never said anything is just kind of like swept under the rug and kind of came to a head I remember I was getting ready to go to a school I don't remember if it was die school or what it was I was getting ready to go to a school and I needed an updated physical so I go into bas which is our you know our doctor's office if you will and I'm like hey I need some signatures from the doc I need a physical the corpsman there is like Roger that let's go ahead get your your vitals yada-yada-yada and so he sits down takes my temperature you know does my blood pressure and he starts asking questions and he's like he's like you run here today and I was like no and he's like would you drink a pot of coffee and I'm like no what's up with the weird questions and he's like well dude your fucking blood pressure is like sky-high I'm like what is it he's like your blood pressure's 155 over 120 - holy shit yeah and he's like I don't know if just playing here for a second I didn't know this at the time but he went back to the mo which was the medical officer at the time who's a female lieutenant in the Navy and say her name but uh he was back there for about five minutes and he came back up and he's like hey he's like it's just gonna be a few minutes I'm like because everything okay and he's like yeah and he's like I don't know if we're gonna be able to get you the signatures or anything right now he's and I'm like fuck you talking about well I need to leave if that's not gonna happen he's like you can't go and I'm like what do you mean I can't go and he's like the doc specifically told me that you're not allowed to leave so she pulls me into her office and she's like yeah your blood pressure your fuckin risk of stroke like your shits high as fuck and this had been like 20 minutes had gone by before she had called me back and during that time I guess she's going through my medical record with like a fine-tooth comb she didn't know who I was when we were gone and that deployment is when she came in to the battalion so she didn't know anything about me there's this new guy that just got back a couple months ago from this Golf Company deployment and was trying to go to the next cool guy course you know and she sets me down and she's like has anybody ever gone through your record with you I'm like nope and she started kind of asking me you know questions have you ever felt this oh you ever done this you ever you know had this experience that I'm like got to the point I was like yeah what are you getting at you know and she's like there's I think there's a correlation between your high blood pressure and what I'm reading here in your medical record and that was kind of that come-to-jesus meeting that I felt I think that I really needed well what what specifically did she read in your medical record that this is related to I had a total throughout my career I had been exposed to 12 either you can either IEDs or large blast some of them were RPG blast some of them were when my vehicle was struck by an ie D some of them were just random IEDs that one off away on a foot patrol and I was in close proximity so recorded I had 12 in my medical record and that doesn't even count all the all the breaching all the rockets on all that oh hell no man that's not like you know we're training on the range and shooting laws 84s you know yeah shit like that demo back just know this is like when incidents happen where I could i potentially lost consciousness or was like i had a time where my eardrums got ruptured because you know struck my vehicle but uh yeah so twelve fucking so basically twelve fucking TV eyes essentially it had the potential to be that now i didn't I didn't lose conscious consciousness twelve times from what I can remember right firewalls conscious like four times maybe five but whether or not that categorizes it as a TV iron on I'm not you know I'm not too sure but there was 12 cases twelve instances throughout my career were it was significant enough to be documented in my medical record fuck and then and this is from first deployment yeah did you ever made with the infantry all the way to last one with MARSOC and this is the first time that yeah anybody any any kind of red flags and it was good because the way she approached it you know we're very fucking hard-headed we're very prideful like we're quick to sweep the shit like that under the rug and just focus on the mission you know at hand and that's kind of what it was and she was kind of was like look fuck stick like you've got some issues you know and would she kind of put it that way and she she was like she you know asked me questions about family I told her about my son and she like listen she's like your son you care about your son right no he's like you want to make sure he's taking care of like yeah she's like you can't do any of that unless you take care of you and that kind of resonated with me you know really kind of kind of hit home and so she's like I want you to be honest with me she's like go home for the weekend I want you I'm gonna make an appointment you're gonna come back next week and we're gonna do a full physical and I want you to be honest with me and so I went home that weekend and just kind of thought about everything and I was I was scared to talk to say what I was Spearin Singh because I was on that that high you know we just come off a really successful deployment and I was getting ready to go to a school that I've been trying to get for a while and then after I got back from that school was gonna jump into another work up and deploy again how long after deployment is this happening after that last deployment it was probably two months holy fuck were you having any symptoms on deployment yeah it actually the symptoms had started even prior to my last deployment but it was all stuff that I just you know do we don't say shit you know what I mean it's just you know you don't want to do anything that's gonna remove you from your team you know yeah stubborn in a sense but so yeah that happened we went back the next week and I did I spill I spilled my guts man I told her everything that I was experiencing I told her I don't know what the fuck's going on with me and I've been super depressed so long story short she wanted to enroll me in the spirit intrepid Center on Camp Lejeune which was our brain treatment facility it's a 20-week inpatient or outpatient program where they do everything from like vestibular rehab to cognitive therapy physical therapy occupational speech therapy all that stuff and and you're you're basically going there and you're receiving treatment every day for twenty weeks that's that's your sole purpose and she thought that I needed to to go into that program because of everything that was going on and so they could kind of dig a little deeper and see what was going on and that's when that's when I found out about the TBI and they done MRIs my brain and shed and you know it was just like okay so when you went home for that weekend but nobody wants to be bleep neck I guess I shouldn't say nobody most guys don't want to be diagnosed with anything because they don't want to be separated from the team or miss a deployment or any of that shit but on the other hand at least for for me I didn't want I was also at the same time scared too I didn't want to hear what the fuck was wrong with me and I know a lot of other guys have that they have that did you have any of that that fear that because once you get it it's that's been real yeah dude I was scared you know and I look back on it now and think how foolish I was but I used to be that guy that was like the fuck is PTSD ya know that shit's for their weak yeah that means you fucking have a weak mind that's how I used to look at it because I was just didn't know was uneducated thought I was fucking you know bulletproof that age that's how you feel that you feel like you're unstoppable you know and that's kind of where I was and there's a humbling moment when I realized like this is me like I'm human and the accumulation of all these deployments and all this shit like being at a high stress level in that fight-or-flight mode for years you know I was that was me now you know these are their effects all this these things that I was feeling and experiencing and everything it was a result of all that time that I had spent doing that that cool guy shit you know so everybody's like you know not everybody batted a lot of people like dude holy fuck you'd like the things that you did is fucking amazing like I would kill to fucking be able to do some of the things that you did and while I'm grateful I'm kind of like it fucking I came with a price yeah came into real hefty price you know if you heard of if you heard of operator syndrome hmm they're now saying that I'm gonna fuck this up but they're now basically what they're doing is a PTSD became so broad that now that they're starting to or have started to diagnose operators like yourself with operator syndrome because of all the other fucking symptoms that are coming out you know like your PTSD is different than the admin person who had a random rocket land next to their fucking bunk house mm-hmm so and I believe there's seven I can't remember exactly what they are but I believe there's like seven different kind of symptoms that they did makeup operator syndrome which is off you know from right that's dress huh that's interesting and I can totally see that I remember one of the things when I was at that brain treatment clinic was they asked me if I would be interested in doing group therapy and I promised myself that when I went there that I would go in with an open mind and I would try my best to take advantage of every resource that was available so I tried it and you know the first one I went to was the only one I went to but it was like 15 people in a room all either Marines or Navy corpsman and everybody had their own experience but the thing was some of them were combat related and some of them weren't like a guy was you know you had a e ii or III sitting next to me who had been in a car wreck and was suffering from TBI and PTSD which i you know don't take anything away from his accident and his injuries but it's totally different you know so it just was hard for me it wasn't relatable you know yeah it was hard for me to be in that setting I felt like if I was gonna do counselling or therapy it probably needed to be better probably needed to be alone you know I didn't do well with group therapies but anyhow so I was there did the 20-week program and during that time it really opened my eyes seeing where I was at with my baseline with all the different tests and shit it revealed that I had issues yeah and I guess I was being as I was realized at coming to the realization that I had issues it was really or that suno ball effect was really taking place if my issues were getting worse and worse and worse and at one point man I just got I I was in a really deep dark place in my life that was right before I got out of the Marine Corps I had basically been given a choice I was told I was never gonna deploy again and I had a choice to either do a lot of remove to a non deployable MLS essentially in an admin job or I would be medically retired that I had to choose between the two and that kind of fucked me up because I wasn't ready to to drop my pack I wasn't it was very difficult to come to grips with the fact that it was it was over yeah how did they how did they tell you you're not to pull you're not going to deploy they told me I couldn't afford another concussion I don't they're like you're gonna turn into a fucking vegetable like you cannot afford another concussion if you deploy again in the teams there's a very high chance you will get another concussion and you can't like we don't want to risk severe brain damage at that point you know not saying that that's what's gonna happen but they're erring on the side of caution you know at that point yeah so that was tough there was a time deed were like there wasn't a day that went by where I didn't contemplate suicide and think it out like how I was gonna do it I've already gonna do it that had an array of different ways I was gonna do it were you drinking yeah drinking how you know I had gotten divorced I had a failed marriage I was living in a three-bedroom house all by myself so I'd go home and nobody yeah you know it was just lonely and I was trying to battle all these demons on my own not really knowing what what the fuck to do you know yeah and I was kind of god I was a resentful of the guys that I had served with the guys of my team because thing I've learned about not just the Marine Corps but you know all branches regardless of what what you're doing is and you get out that train doesn't stop rolling yeah that train keeps going and it doesn't look back it doesn't slow down if you get off Thanks have a good time it does exactly what the fuck it is supposed to do whether you are there or not yeah and that's a fucking tough pill to swallow I didn't get any calls nobody checked to see how I was doing I don't think anybody really knew I was so like isolated I just isolated myself and you know I don't even know how the fuck I pulled myself out of that hole to be honest with you man it was bad it was real bad I'm just oh and for like a solid year and a half I was not myself like I did some shit that I look back on now that I'm just like fuck the fuck is wrong with you and I mean just like give us an example failed relationships you know with people different you know just just the way I would act you know like I just didn't give a fuck about anything or anybody you know yeah I think I know where you're going with this but I'm curious did you look dear I mean your stepdad was a sniper on Vietnam and who had come home and he's still alive so did you look to him for any type of guidance or did you now I didn't man that's no I didn't man I was I was partially you know embarrassed about it I didn't I didn't really know how to feel but I didn't have it like a mentor or somebody that I could talk to you or somebody could be like yeah dude this is normal it wasn't like that I just and honestly had I it was probably best that I experienced it by myself because I learned from it I learned a lot and ultimately man I think I think my son is is probably what kept my head above water because I came very close on a couple different occasions - you know taking my own life and my thinking about my son and him growing up without a father is what stopped me so fast-forward you know I I get put on a med board I'm found unfit for duty I'm given a date to get out of the Marine Corps I'm done I'm being medically retired what your what your is this this is the end of 2014 and I feel like the fucking walls are closing in around me cuz I have no fucking idea what I'm gonna do how does what I just did for the last 11 years of my life gonna translate to the corporate world or the civilian sector yeah I don't want to be a fucking cop I see what those motherfuckers deal with and quite frankly I just don't want to do it yeah I was done carrying a fucking gun had enough didn't want anything to do with it for like a year and a half after I got out I never even picked up a gun didn't carry didn't have any fucking soul on my shed they hold all my guns where did you did you where'd you go uh I moved back down to Florida that's where you know where I grew up and my dad lived there and you know I went I went and moved in with my dad temporarily for a few months he was you know he's been the most impactful person of my life and he was the one I felt like I need to go be with him for a little while and just kind of try to clear my head but and then figure out what the fuck I was gonna do with my life what's next what am I gonna do for a living you know I can't like I so I just I don't know what to do you know I was kind of lost in life and you know so that during that time you know when I move moved back down to Florida you know I tried if you I dialed in a few different things I tried the school thing you know GI bill that that fucking worked out like a fart in church yeah how long did you try that I'm just curious semester and a half that's a you gave it a good yelled yeah I gave it a good go but it just wasn't for me to like it just I tried it I thought that was like the thing to do yeah well coming back from for fucking combat deployments been blowing up twelve times killing the fucking number three guy SWAT Marines that are pussies out of the way so he can jump that finger and then go into a fucking classroom with a bunch of eighteen-year-old fucking chumps that had to be a tough pill to swallow oh yeah did you want to talk about feeling like an insignificant piece of shit I was just trying to figure out like what the fuck happened a year and a half ago I was fucking like on top of the world yeah you know I was on the top of the fucking world it was tough man so I did that it would didn't work out for me than I thought alright so maybe I want to do a trade school maybe I want to go be a marine marine technician go learn how to work on outboard motors and stuff like that you know God everything was doing my vocational rehab you know packet going to that I went the first day and I was like no no this isn't gonna be good like I said I could just tell it was you know certain guys it was a younger guys in the class and then between that certain guys in the class that I knew I wasn't going to mesh well with and then there was a personality conflict with what the instructor himself and I was just like yeah I don't I don't want to do this bad enough yeah to you know to stick this out for I think the course for that was like almost a year and we getting a lot of anxiety and shifting all is fucking unreal and and when I talk about like personality conflicts and not meshing well with some of those other students and stuff I think a lot of that was me you know what I mean like yeah it was just me like I had no idea how to fucking deal with being like a member of like civilization regular society you know what I mean like somebody we fucking tapping their pen on the desk all somebody's talking you're trying to concentrate and I want to fucking slam their face on the desk you know yeah no I think that's a big reason why people are always asking we get a ton of emails and one of the really common question is why do guys that come from Special Operations community or war fighters why do they always self isolate why do they wind up in the middle of nowhere and I think we're all just trying to avoid confrontation because we cannot deal with it the way we used to dude the first step move back down to Florida I broke a guy's jaw kind of like we had a storage unit I was getting my stuff I won't go into too far into detail about the story but the guy deserved a nice welcome and I gave it to him but uh you know hours after that deputy shows up to the house you know luckily I didn't get in trouble because the officer felt that my actions were warranted but that kind of was like okay I can't fuckin do this kind of stuff anymore like I'm gonna end up in jail ya know I can't can't react the way that I normally would react so how many relationships well let me rephrase us what relationships did you not ruin because a lot of guys brewing all the relationships with family wives girlfriends friends dude I think it's safe to say that I probably fuckin ruined all of them even had some time yeah later down the road my dad and I kind of had a falling out since then we've rekindled that you know him and I real close but yeah so you said you pretty much fucked up just about all of your relationships even with your your dad but you came down here and you're newly married just like me so obviously you had at least one that worked out and was able to put up with your fucking bullshit hey I think that's what it boils down to is when you end up meeting your soul mate it's that one person that's willing to put up with your shit yeah I met Gillian about four years ago we got married in October last year and she was my saving grace dude I mean when I found you know refound my love for fishing and taking the guys out that made me feel accomplished but she was that missing piece to my puzzle she kraut he uh keeps me grounded brings him back down when I'm you know I'm left field and ultimately she's the one that pushed me to pursue my my goals my dreams my aspirations so I got her locked down now well that's fucking awesome them yeah man we're really happy and we're both in a really good place and I'm very I'm a very lucky guy yeah you guys are good together thanks man appreciate it a lot of people want to know how they can help somebody with PTSD or post-traumatic stress TBI with the with the transition and I tell you what definitely does not fucking work is when people try to relate to what you're dealing with who is never who never fucking been there yeah and but so don't do that but do you have any advice for people who who do want to help anything I mean if you want to help just be a good fucking American don't let guys that have done so much and sacrificed so much for the country feel like everything they did was for a fucking waste yeah you know do it getting on social media and posting videos of yourself doing fucking 22 push-ups you're not fucking making a difference you're not doing shit yeah you're not raising awareness like you think you are and whoever fucking started that might might have thought it was but you're not ok so just be a good fucking person you know be a good person and if you by chance do you come across a combat veteran just look and say what's up you know don't don't sit there and try to ask him how many fucking people they've killed or don't do that shit just you know just asking what's going on you know talk to him introduce yourself I had a guy I remember one time when I was I went to another brain treatment facility in Dallas Texas I was working out the gym there that was right right across from the facility there and random dude just came up to me and he's like sir I don't want to interrupt your workout but he's like I recognize you you were your pictures on on LAF page and I'm like that's pretty fucking we're not being a trained observer that's pretty fucking good but the kid didn't have any expectations he wasn't like you know trying to fucking find out you know info about like what I did and just hey can I get a picture with you he genuinely was just like dude I want to say I got a ton of fucking respect for you and I don't have any clue what you may have experienced but uh I just want to tell you thank you you know that's what I thought that was pretty cool you know yeah but yeah so you know fast forward probably a year from there you know I'm still trying to figure out what the fuck I was gonna do in life and I get a phone call one day from a guy by the name of ed salut and he goes hey dude you want to go fishing and I'm like you know I always want to go fishing dude so he's like he's like well here's the deal man he's like do you want to go down to Costa Rica and go bill fishing on a private yacht sport fishing yacht and just hang out and relax for like a week and I'm like yeah what's like what I got to do like where do I sign up or you know what I'm like what's the catch and so long story short he's like look man I got there's this organization called Freedom Alliance they do here what they call the heroes vacation every year and they basically select 15 guys to go down to Costa Rica and go down for a week and basically go bill fishing you know for Marlin and sail fish and stuff you know once-in-a-lifetime opportunity and it's funny because in between missions on my last deployment I remember we had a little Internet Center and I remember going in there and getting on the internet and researching about like different charters and stuff because I told myself when I get home like that is my number one on my bucket list I want to go down and catch a trophy bill fish and the opportunity was presented myself I got to go down there and it was a life life-altering experience no shit yeah I grew up fishing down in Florida fresh water fishing saltwater fishing like I I grew up doing that but during my time in the military I basically didn't do any of that like I didn't fish at all so get you know when I got home I kind of rediscovered my love for fishing again when I went on that trip it was just like it was life-changing dude it really was it was a life-changing moment in my life and I just kind of you know a few times during that trip I kind of sat back and just observed to see what it was doing the impact was having on the other guys that were invited to go on this trip and I'm like and the fucking light bulb came on and I'm like I'm like I could fucking make a difference like I can fucking do this I have the experience and the resources and the gear to fuckin be able to get more guys out on the water and let them experience this and so that's what I did you know I talked to the director director of freedom Alliance talked to the president of freed Alliance I said listen I said I love everything that you guys are about everything that you're doing and I want to be a part of it I want to volunteer I don't want any money I don't want anything I just want to be able to contribute and I love to start doing more than the one time of year where the guys would go down to Costa Rica so I started running I started taking combat wounded veterans on all short fishing trips to the Bahamas and it was amazing dude the impact was having on these guys it was just like unbelievable and for me that was like the biggest thing because for that like year after I had just gotten out the biggest thing I struggled with was trying to find my purpose in life again yeah you know feeling like I was just a total piece of shit wasn't doing anything I needed to find that sense of purpose again like I was and I felt like I was contributing to the mission just in a different aspect that I was prior to that so it was really cool to do that and that let it you know doing those trips and and realizing how much of a difference it was making and how much of an impact it was having on these guys I took it to the next level I used my GI Bill to go to captain school so I went to a 13-week captain's course ended up graduating his honor grad from that course got my US Coast Guard captain's license and now I've kind of found my new calling I I'm a full-time fishing guide I started a business warrior tabasco service a full-time freshwater fishing guide you know targeting mainly largemouth bass so it's what I do to put food on the table for my family now I really enjoy it I get to meet people from all different walks life and provide them with lifelong memories with family members and friends and stuff get out of the water but my biggest enjoyment is I still do the volunteer work I still take veterans so in between all my work I have blackout dates where I will scheduled to fly veterans in to fish for two days so that they can experience that well I remember I think when we met you were still working with freedom Alliance yeah and we just started teaching together and you invited me to go on that trip and Baton Rouge right Venice we're in Venice Venice you know on that tuna fishing excursion and yeah which was fucking awesome and I I really I really trusted you I didn't before that I didn't do any of that I know because I just I've seen so many fucking nonprofits you know use the veteran card and in in in the treatment card to fucking Hey yeah they abused it I know what you mean but I you invited me and I was like well fuck I mean I had a lot of respect for you and I trusted you we won and it was it was a really good fucking experience and and it wasn't it's therapy but it's not it's just nice to get your fucking mind off a shit and be around some like-minded people yeah which is another reason I was actually a little hesitant to go is because you know with what we used to do there's egos fucking run rapid and sometimes that can be pretty toxic but but that was a really good trip and all the guys that were there whether there was four of us and was other than the fucking cold that was awesome but yeah nobody goes flying around I remember telling my my wife like I was actually kind of shocked that you said yes like I really I knew you're kind of your outlook on you know some of the different benevolent organizations and and how they abused it and didn't do the right thing and I was shocked that she came but I was happy that you did I mean that's what it's all about man you get out there there wasn't you know like I said no he goes running around and even though it's not a therapy session just by nature of what the trip is it ends up being kind of that way it ends up everybody gets something out of it whether it's just you know talking to a guy that may have similar experiences that you do and in the end you feel like you're not alone because that dude knows exactly how the fuck you feel like that's a big deal yeah well the way you structured it too you had guys that were fresh out you had guys that were had been out for a little while and then yeah like I had been out for a little while and I think that was I think that was really good because the guys that are fresh out that's some it's fucking seems hopeless and then you see a guy who's been out who's coming around and it gives you it it just made you realize you know fuck it's I can overcome this shit it's possible yeah you know that guys doing great gives you hope yep you know I mean you've done it I've done it I mean how many guys have we helped kind of walk through the transition and and multiple different facets you know I've had guys reach out to me and they're like look man what do you what do you think about this you know what should I do you know guys that just don't know and kind of looking for direction you know guidance and I feel like I fucking learned it all on my own like I went struggled through the the transition and ultimately I I feel like I've had a successful transition but if I can help anybody from going through what I fucking went through yeah I want to help them you know it's almost like for the young MARSOC guys that are coming out now or that maybe they're not even young you know that should could be fucking 40 years old but to see a guy like you who's been there and done it and admit that you've gotten help it it makes it okay you know for the next for the generations that are coming out and I do have a question how do you make do you make everybody who catches a fucking tuna eat the heart out yes that's tradition so two things that typically happen when you catch your first tuna you got to get in the water with it which we didn't make you do that but what we did make you do is you got to eat the heart not the whole thing we at least got to take a bite so for those of you guys that have or have not fished the board uh any of captain Mike Ellis boats with relentless sport fishing there's kind of a tradition that's kind of adhere to and any time you catch your your first yellowfin tuna that is you will taste the blood of that tuna so eat your heart out Sean I'd send it out give you warmth freedom alliance let's for fishing good stuff guys good job in Graz that's just a tradition man that sets come from years back and it's just fun you know and I feel like anybody in the normal state of mind would look at you and be like yeah that's not fucking happening but with guys like us it's kind of like you kind of fucking do it you know yeah well you made me do it I was gonna finish it but then you told me I'm gonna get fucking worms so but so you do that you're able to do that now with with your charters what's that they take veterans out and that's probably that is probably even better because it's a one-on-one experience we had you know we had a captain and three other guys yeah and then but now you're the fucking captain and you're the combat vet that guys you know can you hook up to and it's a one-on-one there's a one-on-one session yeah typically the way I'll do it is I'll bite two guys so it'll typically be two guys and myself alone but you know I just want to emphasize that this is not a for-profit these guys are not being charged when they come when they're invited you know I select these guys and nominate them to come down for these trips based on people not just random like oh yeah got you and you these are people that I feel can benefit from it that need it you need that reset button what's that you verify oh absolutely everybody that I've taken I know I either know or have somebody that's very close to me that knows them and this is to ensure that everybody that gets the opportunity to go on these is actually deserving of it but yeah it's you know basing myself and two other guys and you know we go out and just relax and decompress and have a good and you know we catch fish which is always a plus but at the end of the day it's that breaking away from the everyday stresses of life and the bullshit and all that stuff and letting them kind of reconnect with you know old comrades or you know just like you said like mounted individuals who might may have experienced similar things or similar struggles you know and getting them out on the water together and you know and next you know you got two guys that may have not known each other prior to that or they may have known of each other but never really met who are now lifelong friends they had that connection you know building the network absolutely fucking huge absolutely it out well I think that's that's fuckin awesome what you're doing and so who's covering the cost of taking these guys out well I am basically you know I'll just I'll put money aside you know when I can on my busier busier days at a busier times a year you know I'll set some money aside and you know I'll eat the cost you know they're not they're not paying me for you know to take them out like it's just my boat my gear my time the money that I do put forth is to cover things like airfare lodging food all that stuff so right now it's me so we kind of talked about this before he came up and I mean I just think it's fuckin great that you're paying fur to help and give back to the community but I mean in my opinion you shouldn't be the one pan to give back to the community so we spoke a lot about and talked a lot about business before we finally set out and and got you on the show and so you can donate to neck on vem oh and PayPal and anything that gets donated goes to the next set of veterans that you help to a therapeutic fishing retreat you know we get we get questions all the time at the John Sallee Don how can I help the veterans how can I help the veterans how can I help the guys coming back home what can I do to give back to them well now is your chance Nick's doing the dirty work not dirty work but you know Nick's doing the good work and he's a great role model for the guys coming home and he's got a lot of good advice and the more money you donate to what's your handle so you can find me at a warrior to Bass guide service it's will spell the name warrior the number two and then bass you can find me on Instagram you can find me on Facebook or you can go to my website warrior bass com so all those proceeds get veterans out there and you get a fine example of somebody who's had a successful transition so check out warrior two baths although I think it should be a boarder three baths but so I want to kind of wrap this thing up here Nick I just want to say it's been a real fucking honor to have you sit in that chair across from me and you know your fucking service record is amazing I've worked with a lot of different operators from all different branches especially when I was at CIA I worked with all of them and I got to tell you if I could go back and operate with somebody that I didn't get to before you would be a fucking top of my list dude and I don't say that shit to very many people but here's the solid motherfucker dude yeah I appreciate that man feeling's mutual I knew that from the time when we started teaching together you know doing the training and whatnot I always thought to myself man we can't fucking direct some shit we're deployed together damn right all right check out warrior two bass on instagram and vessel up to it man thanks brother I appreciate you having me on the show Cheers

Channel: Vigilance Elite

Views: 612,487

Rating: 4.9550815 out of 5

Keywords: vigilance elite, shawn ryan, shawn ryan show, nick kefalides, marsoc, marine raiders, navy seals, afghanistan, combat footage, war footage, marsoc training, vigilance elite podcast, shawn ryan podcast, kefalides, marine recon, war stories, infantry, nick kefalides marine raider, semper fi, shawn ryan show #004 marsoc marine raider nick kefalides, navy seal, shawn ryan vigilance elite, the shawn ryan show, marine raider, marsoc raider, nick kefalides marsoc, marsoc marines

Id: 1LqlMUXcYK4

Length: 168min 49sec (10129 seconds)

Published: Fri Jun 26 2020