Securing an Insecure World | Davos 2024 | World Economic Forum

[Music] sure [Music] [Music] that [Music] [Music] and good afternoon welcome to the session on securing an insecure world of course I'm biased but if it is one session and that you're you should go to it is this one so you you done a good good choice and with this panel I think we're also uh going to get enlightened um we are faced with the most complex geopolitical backdrop in any DeVos is in the last decades and I I like the title we can make an insecure World a bit more secure on my left I have analena bbok Federal Minister of Foreign Affairs Germany then we have um His Highness fil uh alad Minister of Foreign Affairs Saudi Arabia then we have Senator Chris koun um from the US uh Delaware the former seat of U President Biden then we have Yousef tugar Minister of Foreign Affairs in Nigeria welcome Minister how many days have you been in the job sounds like forever but yeah only since August yeah they say being foreign minister one they're dog years I think dog years is like seven is it so um then uh we go also to The Finnish forign Minister Elina bonan welcome and then um I think doesn't need that much presentation Yan dolberg the Secretary General of NATO so give them an Applause so we start on a a little bit of a positive uh note uh we will have to touch on the situation in the Middle East the danger of escalation latest development in the Red Sea but of course also the ongoing uh war in Gaza we uh with we will also have uh to touch on um the other war in Ukraine we also have to touch on um what we just heard this morning Chinese uh Premier uh and uh the G2 us uh China but also the order that we left is gone post Cold War order we're between ERS so we don't really know what the New Order will be uh hopefully not the jungle growing back but something based on international law and the UN Charter so we will also touch on that and then I think uh 45 minutes are gone so without any uh further Ado uh your highness uh Mr Fel um where to start and end um how worried are you about uh the situation in the Red Sea it's one of the major transportation um canals of the world we're seeing no ships going around Africa instead of in the canal was it necessary to take the steps we did know are you supportive of them and U you're trying to you have been trying to raining rain in the hooes for quite a while haven't you I think we are incredibly concerned uh for regional Security in general and of course freedom of navigation in the Red Sea is something that impacts all of us and uh we think the priority needs to be deescalation deescalation in the Red Sea but in the entire region and we are going to engage to make that happen and uh part of that of course is also making sure uh uh that we engage with all stakeholders how how connected is this uh with the war in gasa I mean it's clearly connected given that uh it's coming in that context and in any case uh we need to focus on the war in GZA not because of the Red Sea we need to focus on the war in GZA because of its impact on the Palestinians first but on Regional Security in general and on the risks that it poses for further uh escalation and you know we've seen now close to 30,000 civilians killed in Gazza we continue to see civilians being killed every day we continue to see restrictions on access to humanitary Aid and uh frankly we don't see any real sign that any strategic objectives that Israel has claimed are being uh coming any closer so we need to have a ceasefire immediately we need to set the ground for a credible uh process that enables the Palestinian Authority that allows us to have uh a process towards uh peace in the region this will resolve many of the challenges that we have in the region But continuing as we are now continuing to see the suffering that's happening in GZA it is likely to lead to continuing cycles of escalation I think many of us were a bit relieved that uh it did not escalate uh the situation in Gaza uh to uh Lebanon but um what we're seeing now is it has kind of escalated uh to Yemen uh and has impact on the navigation in the Red Sea um you in the Kingdom uh had the Rapa with Iran uh are you surprised that uh of the role in Iran uh when it comes to this situation and with the escalation with the hutis or or or or are they not uh that involved I can't speak for the Iranians but what I can say again I just want to make clear that our priority and our emphasis is on finding the path to deescalation and that is primarily in our view through a ceasefire in Gazza that is through serious engagement across the region but we need to focus on the immediate crisis the immediate crisis is the suffering that's happening in Gazza we're continuing to see that going on we don't see any real prospects for that ending and uh I'm somewhat heartened to see that the International Community has been moving more in the direction uh that we have called for since the beginning which is calling for ceasefires which is calling for uh uh more humanitarian aid but we need to do more clearly not enough has been done because the killing continues and the suffering continues um Minister uh bbok uh I think you visited uh the region Israel uh and uh the Palestinian areas uh also four times since 7th of October you hear what his sinus is saying that we know need a ceasefire we need to deescalate um what's what's your take on on on what the minister just said well also the two of us but with many colleagues and friends we have been in constant uh conact uh in the last uh three months because uh in my assessment this is a total disaster it's a disaster for Israel it's a disaster for the civilians in Gaza it's a disaster for the whole world and we are working nonstop at foreign minister level at the moment to prevent uh that just uh spark uh could uh burn the whole region and not only the region I mean we feel the consequences also in Ukraine we feel the consequences that in Europe media is not reporting about the uh most heavy attacks from Russia on uh civilians in Ukraine since the start of the Russian uh Invasion we feel the consequences I traveled after I've been last week uh to Israel uh to Gaza um rougher border Crossing and also to the neighboring countries I went to the Philippines and Malaysia we as Germany feel the consequences there because in Malaysia I'm being asked so do you have any uh sentiments against Muslim countries because you are not calling for ceasefire in the wording uh my dear colleague and uh friend uh Prince fisel has putting it we are calling for a sustainable ceasefire because I believe that a ceasefire unfortunately doesn't fall from the sky we can only reach a ceasefire if both sides are ready that the suffering for oneself also ends the suffering from the others and my assessment and actually not only assessment I'm really emotional about this because we are speaking about children still in hostage with Hamas in Gaza one year old child we're speaking about a boy I just saw in alar hospital when I was there there when I went from Gaza Crossing Rafa to the hospital 10 km away at the same moment a 5-year-old boy came by ambulance waiting for weeks that he could come to Egypt to be treated in the hospital I just entered only with his mother and his uh baby sister the whole rest of family have been have been killed and the discussion about the ceasefire sounds so technical but it's about saving this children those children still being hostage those children suffering uh under the humanitarian disaster and I believe the the problem we are in is actually we know the solution we can only come out together on a plan on the ceasefire on a plan on a two states solution but at the moment we are stuck in a vicious circle uh because the Vicious Circle means you cannot say but you have to start or you have to start it has to come all together the freeing of the hostages the ending of the human humanitarian sedation the question and this is where we might disagree that there has to be the call from the whole International Community that Hamas has to lay down its weapon so Israel is not threatened from GAA anymore and obviously and this is what others are asking from us like Germany standing with Israel's right to selfdefense obviously this includes also a change of strategy that not so many civilians are dying and at the moment we are stuck in this vicious circle and we have to find and I think this is Our obligation as an International Community of those who believe in the rule of law to find the solution to come out of this Vicious Circle yeah and this is why I'm traveling many colleagues are traveling uh All Around the Clock uh to to come to peace not only for the region but I would say for the whole world well thank you um isn't it the danger that the humanitarian sufferings in Gaza will just continue and continue until there is a political solution because uh at the two former uh during the two former Gaza Wars there were uh conferences after where there was a lot of money PL and one rebuilt Gaza but I guess the international ders don't want to rebuild again if there is a danger for a total or destruction uh in a few years and then I'm looking at what are the realistic scenarios one scenario is the Isel is just stay so we are on like a pre25 uh situation before uh Israel uh pulled out then we can see a situation where the pa and fata takes over the rule of Gaza I I guess they will be quite reluctant I don't know what Abu masan says in his discussions with you on this and then the third one could be f Hamas but I guess Israel is not very open for that solution so so what is now really uh the most realistic outcome for Gaza that can also bring a humanitarian uh relief and bring us on the path as you mentioned for a two-state solution I believe the only way out is a two two-state solution if everybody recognize that Israelis can only uh live in peace and security when Palestinians live in peace and security but the other side is also true Palestinians can only live in peace and security if Israelis for the future are guaranteed that also they are capable of living in peace and security without any Rockets uh flying uh anymore so actually I would say the answer is there on the table but the problem is the bridge over the other side of the river we cannot walk together because on on the contct measures right now it's always this tit for Ted if this doesn't happen first then this cannot uh happen and we have to end this blame game and I believe again it needs actors different countries which come together and say this is the way how we Bridge it and maybe change our course not asking the question on which side are you on we are in a black and white situation also in our countries yeah we are so divided on it if we ask it from the point of the people and I mean human uh and foreign politics it's about the people if we are what do the people of Israel what do the people of Gaza need and they need obviously in Gaza humanitarian access now so the question how do we come to the political answers is that we have to change course on the humanitarian situation this is why concretely now for me German foreign minister I was saying loud and clear that uh the access to GA has to change I believe that it's highly important that uh ashport and rs can be used as border crossing as well obviously there was checks but I was standing there besides estimated 3,000 trucks waiting to enter Gaza people are starving there and here's the food so the food and the water has to come come in on the other hand and this is what I'm discussing uh with our friends and colleagues we cannot ignore that the majority of the hostages is still in the hand of Hamas some people think well the hostages have been freed now no the majority is still in the hand uh of Hamas so while speaking about humanitarian access to come in because of the people we have to uh say together and this is my call for uh other countries who haven't addressed it so clearly yet to call on the freeing of the hostages without any conditions and if we move do both together I believe this could be the step which we need on then further question of uh the role of fat the role of the PA I was there I was speaking uh about the question of reforming about the question of holding up elections I mean this was also a discussion before that we need obviously elections also in the but then you can end up with Hamas winning in the West Bank too can't you well this is interesting and this is why I'm at this moment now I'm rejecting White and black and black and white discussions I mean this leads nowhere yeah and when I was in Israel uh this time I also spoke to researchers and there were interesting findings in German media it was reported uh that an assessment which has been made in Gaza and in the Westbank it was reported the majority is now for Hamas in Gaza and the West Bank when I spoke to the researcher in Israel actually the finding was it was a majority if you asked all the people but it's always always the same with polls the question is how do you ask the question and the question if they would support Hamas in this kind of situation it was not above 50% so it was not the majority many people obviously said we don't know and actually the increase from the support of Hamas at least to this poll has increased only by 4 to 6% over the last three months so the roric which is also there in German and Western media of saying now there's a big push for Hamas this is not the finding from the people because obviously the people are also suffering under Hamas I mean they are being misused as a human protection shield so I think again not black and white we have to address again a question for us International Players to find a solution we have to also think and this is what we are discussing the day after so how can we hold election what would be the precondition uh my precondition obviously guaranteeing the right of Israel and guarant guing the right of the Palestinian live in peace and security I mean these are the international rules the charter of the united nation was founded uh on and the worst thing we could do is just wait and see for me this is no option at all obviously it's very difficult to move one step further but wait and see we saw now in the last three months just leads to further escalation and therefore I'm really thankful for the exchange here today no thank you very much um uh Senator k um in the Arab peace plan um if there was a two-state solution Arab countries were guaranteeing uh also for uh Israel security it was Palestinian state but uh it was a broad regional understanding based also on the global uh understanding uh listening to uh Prince fisel also the German uh Forman Minister who can is there a possibility at all to break the current impass both in Gaza when will the war end how will it end and also on the two-state solutions because there is like almost 30 is more than 30 years since the Osa process now and and and and yes I am optimistic that there is a possibility of Peace along that framework uh two months ago uh a group of 10 Senators five Republicans five Democrats went to Riyad met with the Crown Prince went to Tel Aviv met with prime minister Netanyahu the war cabinet and other leaders in Israel went to Cairo and met with President Eli um and the possibility of that uh Regional peace Regional reconciliation with a real path towards a Palestinian state is still there but the conditions on the ground have gotten worse every single day the suffering of civilians in Gaza has gotten to an unaccept acceptable level the refusal to deliver humanitarian assistance at scale has become unacceptable and the continued holding of hostages by Hamas there was a encouraging period cutter helped facilitate U the release of some hostages there's just also been the delivery of some medicines but we are a long way uh from resolving this and making any positive path forward requires a change uh both in the sentiments uh and the leadership uh in Israel as as well as the sentiments uh in the region the United States can and should play a central and a facilitating role but we cannot make peace where there are uh peoples not willing to or committed to this is a shattering moment uh for the people of Israel to reexamine whether a strategy of having both Hamas and fata in the West Bank in Gaza was wise or unwise whether or not there is a guarantee uh of security returning to that and whether or not it's sustainable uh globally for Israel uh to continue this uh conduct of the war in Gaza I would argue it is not U there is also a regional actor we have to be clear about um it is Iran that is providing the drones and the missiles that are killing civilians in Ukraine it is Iran that has provided a lot of the training and the support that makes houti drone attacks and missile attacks possible Hamas attacks possible uh and we have to be clear eyed um that there is an accelerating trajectory of difficulty the dprk and Iran have provided critical resources uh to Russia for which they will be rewarded with technology uh that will make the world even more dangerous so I think we need to be decisive I think we need to be engaged and I think we need to be cleare eyed we have talked for a long time about a Palestinian State without making any real progress um and so I think this is a moment for bold action I agree with much of what the minister had said about a sustainable ceasefire but the conditions for creating that are going to require some real changes uh our secretary of state has been throughout the region tirelessly so too have many other American leaders I am actually hopeful that this is possible but hope is not a strategy without significant investment and real change is that possible with the current uh Israeli government prime minister Netanyahu has made a career for a long time of opposing a two-state solution this is not recent this is not news um so I think it falls to the Israeli people to decide as a democracy what they see as the right path forward but there's also very short time there is a short window before the American political election season squeezes out any possibility uh of us ratifying or engaging or supporting a new security arrangement in the region there's also many elections in other places this is the the year of many complex and challenging elections uh and so I I think the time if there is an agreement we saw that uh the jspoa was just terminated by by Trump so if if if that if he was to be reelected and the Biden Administration made deals now could we count on the new Administration continuing the United States rarely ratifies security treaties but when we do we keep them um we have just enacted uh our defense authorization act it includes a provision that passed with an overwhelming bipartisan majority uh our ratification of the NATO treaty decades ago was silent about whether or not an American president could unilaterally withdraw America from NATO it's no longer silent we have amended the statute an American president can no longer unilaterally withdraws from NATO why was that done I think it's clear and enlighten me no uh before I I have um a follow-up question but on a different topic uh Senator kons but uh Prince Fel um short reactions from you from what Senator said and also what uh German forign Minister said I think what's important to note here is that there is General agreement uh and uh what we need to do is translate that agreement into concrete action you know uh Minister Bok uh very eloquently discussed uh the fact that peace and security of Israel is intimately linked with peace and security for the Palestinians and that's something that we have supported in the Kingdom since 1981 the pH uh proposal on peace so we are fully on board with that we agree that Regional peace includes peace for Israel but that can only happen through peace for uh the Palestinians through a Palestinian State and I hear from Senator Coon's exactly the same uh sentiment and this is something that we have been indeed working on with the uh Administration the US Administration uh and it continues I think it's even more relevant in the context of razza the fact is that what Israel is doing now is putting uh the prospects for regional peace and security at risk uh there is a pathway towards a much better future for the region uh for the Palestinians and for Israel that is peace and we are fully committed to that but again the first step for that is ceasefire and uh I I will say that a ceasefire of course means ceas fire on all sides but that can only happen as should be a starting point towards a permanent sustainable peace which can only happen through uh uh True Justice for the Palestinian people thank you and I think also the kingdom has said in that context it could even uh be recognition of Israel from the kingdom if that was part of a bigger uh political agreement certainly Senator Coons um we had uh premier of China speaking this morning uh second largest economy in the world 20% of the global economy us 25% of the global economy almost 50% uh Al together um I think one of the few bipartisan uh topics in in in DC is the view on China but following uh President Biden's and shishin Ping's meeting in San Francisco during the ape meeting there is no uh broader understanding at least establish a kind of a floor so where do you see the relationship between uh the US and China in the next decade will it be as your president have said extreme competition but also agreement on areas where there is common interest or will it not only be der risking but also in certain areas going into deing well I think uh to a great extent that will depend on the outcome of our presidential election uh I do think President Biden made some real progress in reducing um the risk of military Encounters in the South China Sea of profound misunderstandings we have fundamentally different systems and values uh but we are deeply interconnected economically uh and reopening military to military lines of communication to reduce the possibility of an unintentional uh conflict is a positive step um I believe Xi Jinping also heard um there was a delegation of senators that went and and he dedicated a great deal of time to a respectful engagement and heard about Fentanyl and its consequences in our country where it is killing huge numbers of Americans and that has been driving some of the anger at China is the nationally shared sense of grievance uh that the PRC was taking no significant steps to reduce the production and Export to the United States of fentel substantive steps have been taken and that is a positive sign um we need to now figure out how it is that we can um find areas of cooperation whether it's on climate change or on pandemics or on uh research while recognizing that we will vigorous ly compete uh we are each taking steps to constrain the other in terms of Technology uh that are raising some concerns in conversations I've had here um but I I think it is also worth being clear that um in terms of the international rules-based order China continues to do things uh in the economic zones of regional neighbors u in terms of constraining freedom of navigation in terms of their view of uh the international flow of data and the theft of intellectual property that that causes us some concerns and some issues uh I also think um that g watches closely the world's response to Putin's aggression against Ukraine and it's important um that we in the United States continue to meet our commitments to Ukraine that we continue to work in Partnership uh with the 50 other countries that are determined to push back on the invasion of a neighboring sovereign country um and that we um continue our work together to find a way that we can der risk this relationship um in a positive direction for the world thank you um we're discussing uh midle East but we're also discussing east west but north south has also been um a prominent uh topic during the last three years there's been uh lack of trust uh between the South uh and the north some people would say it started with not necessarily but it accelerated during Co where you saw that Global sou did not have access to the most effective vaccines and uh the global nth was then seeing vaccination third fourth times and they started to vaccinate children and there were vulnerable groups not having access to vaccines in the global sou so uh Minister um tugar Nigeria one of the really uh big uh Powers uh in the global sou you listen to the discussion uh of course uh so far but is there a way that we can see a Reconciliation between the North and the South and what has to change uh from the north is there anything that has to change uh from the south and what would be the fundamental fundaments of that these uh this cooperation the pillars that this Corporation will be built on un Charter is it international law is very interesting to to hear also from the new Nigerian Administration on this Minister well uh what we have to do is to collectively uh practice what we preach so um the values that uh uh we uphold uh democracy um rule of law uh need to be practiced and we need to see them being practiced in uh the very decisionmaking uh bodies or entities uh uh for the planet so so to begin with the UN Security Council uh it needs to democratize clearly it is not uh fit for purpose um Nigeria you mentioned is is is a large country it is the the most populous country uh on the continent on the African continent it has a population of 220 million people it's going to be 400 by the year 2050 uh it belongs in un Security Council for instance and there are several other uh key decision making bodies with or without FAL power permanent yeah seat we are but no more veto Powers huh or we we should we should do away with the with the veto pow clearly it's clumsy it's not working and um again you know when you look at the the Global Security architecture it is impacted upon by such um undemocratic uh entities that influence uh decisions again you um have a situation where in the past when we had a bipolar uh world we had neutral ground for uh diplomats to engage for diplomacy to be allowed to resolve issues to preempt conflicts and diffuse them we don't have that anymore we no long longer have uh Austria the way it used to be or Switzerland land where we are today um Scandinavia uh when I was studying international relations many decades ago we had we even had the term finlandization you know and all of that that no longer exists so uh we're increasingly seeing a situation where diplomats and diplomacy are taking the back seat and um uh disagreements are being securitized and uh uh security uh Chiefs uh defense policy makers are taking um the the the front seat and of course for uh the guy with the hammer uh everything is a nail so we end up uh with increasing conflict so we need to um allow for of course you know some of these things have to do with also the um Global Financial uh situation uh um problems to do with the economy so if uh a Foreign Affairs Ministry is not deemed to be uh a revenue generator then you know one that maybe produces weapons and sells and you know has more Revenue generation takes the Forefront so we really need to um allow for uh diplomats to play uh uh a more um um uh sort of U uh important role when it comes to uh dialogue when it comes to engagement between countries and that is missing thank you thank you very much Minister uh Yan stolberg uh first we come back to Ukraine but uh I asked Senator Coons a question about uh the US and China but also uh the west and China and uh last year uh Secretary General of NATO spoke about uh China that was the first time I I I've heard so so uh I think NATO is of course first and foremost transatlantic Treaty Organization looking uh at uh defending its uh member countries but I think you also have enlarged um also uh the things that you do address and how how do you how do you react to What craun said about uh us relationship with China and how do you think the West should should deal with China so first of all you are right that NATO is a Transit Atlantic Alliance Europe and North America and we will remain a regional Alliance uh but the transatlantic region uh faces Global threats uh security is not longer Regional security is global so what happens in Asia matters for Europe and what happens in Europe matters for Asia and therefore of course we don't regard China as an adversary but uh well but China's uh heavy investments in in modern military capabilities including more and more advanced nuclear weapons um uh China's um way of behavior especially in the South China Sea U and the way China is actually violating core principles for NATO democracy the rule of law uh uh journalism freedom of of expression as we have seen in Hong Kong all of that matters for NATO and uh we also have to understand that this is not about NATO moving in into Asia but it's the about the fact that China is coming closer to us we see them in Africa we see them in the Arctic we see them trying to control critical infrastructure not so many years ago we had a big discussion about 5G and and and many allies said this is only commercial issue no it's it's also a issue about our security so therefore for all these reasons of course NATO has to address what happens uh in Asia uh not because we are Global Security Alliance but because what happens there matters for us and vice versa I visited Japan and South Korea close partners of of NATO they are concerned about what happens in Ukraine because they know that the more success Putin has in Ukraine the more likely it is that Beijing will use Force so we have to have a global approach even though we are Regional countries uh Regional or organizations the world is interconnected and of course NATO has taken a consequence that thank you we were at a session together this morning with President uh sininsky are the ukrainians um winning or would you say not losing the war in Ukraine the the situation on the battlefield is extremely difficult uh the the Russians are now push pushing uh on many front lines um and uh uh and of course the big offensive that the ukrainians launched Last Summer didn't uh uh give give the results we all hoped for and we see how Russia is now building up how they acquiring drones from uh Iran actually building their own drone uh uh uh Factory to produce their own drones in fistan with help from Iran how they get ammunition and ballistic missiles from North Korea and they have also demonstrated a high tolerance for casualties so overall Russia is is is pushing hard and this is serious and and we should underestimate we should never underestimate Russia having said that I really believe that there are that there is also cause for optimism first of all we have to remember where we started when these wars started with the full-fledged Invasion uh back in uh 2022 then most experts believed that Russia was going to take Kia within days and control Ukraine within weeks that didn't happen the opposite happened the the the the ukrainians pushed back they liberated the Northeast and the South hon um uh uh they have made big uh uh military victories in the Black Sea open up a corridor so now they're actually able to export grain and and all stuff through the Black Sea and we have seen how they have been able to hit both uh the Russian Air Force uh and the Russian Navy these are Big military victories for uh Ukraine the most important thing is that Ukraine has survived as a sovereign independent nation um which is a big for them and Russia is losing meaning that Russia has lost uh what they wanted to achieve with the war and that was to control Ukraine Ukraine the people of Ukraine have never trusted Russia less than they do today and they want to be part of the west of the European Union and NATO and they're closer to us than ever before and this is a big loss for Russia we have to support them and I'm also quite confident that NATO allies will continue to provide support because uh uh support for Ukraine is not charity support for Ukraine is investment in our own security and therefore allies have provided unprecedented support now we are ramping up production uh there was just an agreement now to acquire um close to, new interceptors for the Patriot batteries one example of how allies are stepping up to refill their own stocks but also be able to support Ukraine in the future so so uh we just have to stand by Ukraine and some stage Russia will understand that they are paying it too high price and sit down and agree to some kind of just piece but we need to stand by Ukraine thank you you're also a Secretary General of NATO you're on top of all the juicy intelligence uh we heard this morning that Russia has lost like more than 200 soldiers half of their tanks uh in uh you 300,000 say that again 300,000 300,000 yeah so uh and half of their tanks um and it of course also having severe impact uh on their economy it's it's it said in the morning it's a war economy so you can then uh use the traditional uh measures but with what you're hearing uh also uh as Secretary General of NATO are the Russians aware you think that this war did not go as planned and are aware of all the casualties and uh you know for a nation that has lost half of their tanks and 300,000 soldiers that's that's not a minor thing is is there something happening in Russia or is it just not I'm very careful predicting about both how the war will develop uh Wars are by Nature unpredictable and I'm even more careful about predicting what will happen inside uh uh Russia we saw ping last year surprises may happen but but we don't have any indications for any big change inside Russia but of course there can be surprises again I think what really matters is is what we do uh and uh and and we just to have to do whatever we can to increase the price for Russia and of course when they had lost 300,000 soldiers casualties uh thousands of armed Vehicles hundreds of planes this is something that that that matters for Russia and for ordinary Russians uh their economy is struggling uh they are paying a high economic price they are paying a high political price they're more politically isolated all in the area Broad in Caucasus and and Central Asia uh and uh and and so what we can do is is not to predict with certainty what will happen but what we can do is to just maximize the likelihood that at some stage President Putin will understand that to continue this war will have a too high high price and then at some stage she has to sit down and negotiate some kind of uh just lasting peace where Ukraine prevails as a sovereign independent nation uh and the Paradox is that if we want that to happen a peaceful just end to this war the way to get are more or is more weapons to to Ukraine so the more credible we are in our military support the more likely it is that the diplomats will succeed because what what what what happens around the negotiating table with diplomats is is so closely linked to the situation of the battle field there are no indications that Putin is planning for peace now but he will when he realize that he that we will not give up that we have the military strength to support Ukraine and then he will sit down and the diplomats can take over thank you yans uh in the morning meeting someone also said that uh Putin is the father of the modern uh Ukraine but um Minister uh Elena Walton and of Finland I guess Finland would not be come and NATO member if it wasn't for Putin's war on on Ukraine yeah probably not uh we never kind of saw the need for that even though well personally I have been in favor of that for for decades but not all of us fins and we we thought that we would be able to defend ourselves and deter Russia based on our strong own Defense Forces um but I have to say um I mean in this narrative and perhaps also what my colleague from Nigeria referred to I'm not hugely proud of the Finnish piece of history of the Finland finlandization and that's got nothing to do with diplomacy it was enforced on us I mean living next to a huge neighbor who is not only unpredictable but very aggressive and we've had our past where we have had to um defend our country against the aggression and The Invasion from from back then Soviet Union luckily we were able to remain indep dependent never never were part of the Soviet Union but those few decades where we really had to you know constrain our sovereignty in order to remain independent that's not based on the UN Charter right I mean every Sovereign Nation has the right to decide on themselves or more precisely those people living in those democracies they have the right and that is exactly that the ukrainians are now fighting for because they decided more than 10 years ago the Ukrainian people they want to have a European future they want to have a future where each individual counts they can decide on their own future and that's why we need to assist them because nobody wants to have have nobody wants to have a world where only the strongest the most powerful are to decide and I'm I'm sure that applies to Nigeria just as much as it applies to to um the 5 million people of Finland and only just finally NATO does not enlarge by force it is the Free People in democratic nations who choose to join and that goes for Finland and Sweden just like anybody else and we didn't join because we wanted to threaten Russia come on 5 million fins threatening Russia come on it's never happened in the future don't believe that narrative we are there in order to protect our values and uh stand up for the UN Charter you you just told me that you had to close the border again uh towards uh Russia for another month that's right um well yeah um we've experienced especially after the summer some uh increasing so say harassment from from Russia so now there's this um hybrid operation going on where where Russia has not only let uh Third Country citizens uh enter Finland cross our border without valid documentation uh but they have also been been or we have evidence that they are actively mobilizing those people uh also direct from their or original um countries and that's obviously not something we can accept it's part of our sovereignty and territorial integrity and plus Finland is obviously not only protecting its own border but also that of the EU and NATO um many of of those uh people who have um entered our country uh well are criminals or have even war criminal records uh and uh some of them many of them stay in Finland they have all of them seek Asylum but many also continue uh on to towards the rest of the shenen area and of course we can't have that happen time is out but Minister tuar I think you wanted a short reply um I would have loved to continue another half an hour but I learned though uh in my political past that you should always end when people still want you to continue I'm not sure sure all politicians stick to that but Minister tuer and then we'll I'll do a very very short closing yeah so real quickly not a reply just a reaction um I spoke about finlandization within the context of a bipolar world and uh ways to avert conflict and in this case nuclear Annihilation so um perhaps that was the price that we had to uh pay it was regrettable but uh the point I was trying to make was the need for there to be neutral ground for diplomats for countries to engage with each other to avert conflict so but um I couldn't agree more uh with the minister with regards to um freedom of uh of of of of self-determination because what you described could apply exactly uh to Palestine they have the right they have the right to you know self-determination the same way that Finland we could but I don't want us to keep on you know nitpicking and picking and choosing uh which conflicts to highlight uh what is important is also that we pay close attention to um uh proxy uh um Wars and and and actions and and the use of of of proxies to forment conflict in in in in third party Nations so this is something that is happening that we see uh increasingly and unless the diplomats engage with each other you cannot diffuse such attentions but we need to roll that back as quickly as possible no thank thank you very much uh Minister I I feel uh extremely privileged to have had a chance to moderate uh such a panel uh great uh leaders and their uh different fields uh the title was as I said the beginning securing and insecure world I think we took a small step forward in at least establishing some potential pillars for what a more secure world could be and to you uh Minister from Nigeria also on the diplomacy I think we need more diplomacy and not less diplomacy and both in Gaza uh Ukraine uh us uh China north south east west it doesn't hurt to talk it doesn't hurt to have a dialogue and that is what we're trying also here in Devils I'm being asked three times this morning about people that are invited to Devils why did they invite her why did we invite him we don't agree with them exactly that's why they're here because we can have a dialogue if you only then deal with the people you agree with then there will be conflicts there will be no further understanding and of course that's part of the whole disinformation agenda if you look at something the algorithms just make sure that you look even more more at something that is even more extreme than you look at maybe it wasn't extreme at all but it was a little bit edgy so thank you very much to the panel uh really appreciate it thank you give them a big [Applause] Applause I

Channel: World Economic Forum

Views: 22,399

Keywords: World Economic Forum, WEF, Davos, politics, finance, economy, news, leadership, democracy, education, technology, tech, AI, automation, work, future, world news, economist, world, forum, economic, world news today, worldeconomicforum, switzerland, external affairs minister, globalization, robotics, bloomberg, Davos 2024, Davos Agenda, WEF 2024

Id: py4xpGmlUYU

Length: 53min 49sec (3229 seconds)

Published: Wed Jan 17 2024