Scientology: Jason Beghe Interview

it would be probably useful for me to kind of go through this thing because I'm still trying to discover what happened I feel still a little lost and bewildered and I don't quite get it and and that's it that's a common thing for me in my life is that I like somebody like some things I mean just politically like I can't get how people don't see that that politicians a liar you know what I mean I don't get it and so for me if I was going to write something the concept of the title would be how I got into Scientology and why I got out as a little kid I'm talking about even before I could talk I can remember being interested in people really interested in people and I was pretty shiny and everybody wanted to you know pick him up and all this crap and I didn't like that and but and I could see people I could I felt like I could I understood who somebody was pretty well as a little guy and it and I didn't have any kind of I might had some judgment on it but I didn't have a condemnation like ah I just okay that's dad not just daddy but okay that's that guy and that's uncle Gino and this is this guy at the party as a three four year old kid looking around and at a certain point I think certainly before first grade I became very very interested in Who am I not just you know oh that's that guy I know but I was I had some kind of a perception about a person and so I and as a little kid I remember because I the way I could get how I perceived the people in front of me whether it was accurate or not I believed it was true was kind of by looking into their eyes and saying who they are and so I remember as a little kid looking in the mirror looking in the mirror not and like really not looking at how do I look looking and trying to say Who am I and I would say who are you are you you know I said five six year old kid I remember eight years old was pretty intense and and I'd never got it and I just thought well I guess that's the life condition that you you know it's it's it's too hard to to self perceive so this was a question that was always you know and then I went up and as I was growing up and I played the fool and did normal stupid things and drugs and whatever but it was always something that was in the back of my mind and I was always on a spiritual journey one way or another you know either some new-age yet not never like not a lot of organized religion by the time I was 14 or something I'd kind of lost interest in that you know but I would read a lot and even to the point where as a 21 year old kid I mean I remember I was into this spiritual teaching of this one guy who was originally teaching in French and I learned French just so I can read it in the original frame you know I'm so it's important to me but it was all based on Who am I and it kind of I guess that Greek know thyself type of philosophy so somehow I got into Scientology which was Bodhi Elfman I was in my acting class and my acting teacher who's a big disseminator Milton Katselas was ranting about some [ __ ] and he was and which was pissing me off because it was wasting class it was like nobody how you guys are auditioning me or something he was pissed off and he wanted more on unmitigated just the adoration than he wasn't feeling like he was getting it and and in the middle of his tirade I was sitting there like first thinking were these [ __ ] people that are not you know flowing the correct amount of attention to the master and then I then I and I looked and I said wonder if I am and I said do I trust Melton and I said you know what I really don't and that was kind of like a weird thing I said why don't and I thought do it who do I trust I said well at least my parents trust mmm and I was lucky I didn't trust anybody in the room and then I had this realization is I don't trust myself and so in Scientology's I found my ruin I found my own ruin and for some reason because I thought oh well let me try and trust somebody let me try and trust Melton which is what he was yelling and crying about in this whole big speech and I thought well I knew he was a Scientologist so I said Bodhi I said give me some book on Scientology I was doing a scene with him oh yeah and he was just nervous little kid at the time and so he gave me this big fat book called what is Scientology a lot of pictures and so I took this book and I read it I read it I think I stayed up mostly in the night and I read the thing I mean I don't know if I got it worked for I didn't clear all my Amu's for sure but I got through the thing and and and I thought okay that's true [ __ ] I'll go clear I'll try that that sounds fine so I call I gave Brodie the book back the next day I said but take me in that big castle thing I want to I want to check this [ __ ] out so he always very excited you it brings me in and everybody's all excited and they've greased the path because you know I've been on TV engine and he's really nice and I figured I want to do this pure of thing because I'd done drugs and I could feel him in my body and I read the thing what the peer of supposed to do I said you know I always I felt I had felt at that point like I hadn't done drugs for 10-15 years and I thought that was one of the biggest mistakes I've made in my life and I thought if this can really take that effect away because I felt that it lost I had lost some of the shine that I'd had by you know I I mean I wasn't a drug addict but I was a drug indulge err and so I go there basically planning on doing the purif but they've got to give this tour and I must have gotten there at 10:00 in the morning and I swear to god I'm starting to go nuts I've done tests on the cans with some lady I'm like [ __ ] me can I just buy this course and let's get going you know and then they do this you know thing they can they give me my personality test and I was all on the top of the thing and they're still telling me that I'm [ __ ] up and I'm like you luck and they want me to do this finally they go through the I mean I must been there eight hours I'm ready to pull my hair up and they say you should do some little course called ups and downs I said look I'll do the course if I can can I just do the pure of thing yes yes yes and you have to do the TRS and objectives first or with it what's that that's this course that kind of fine just let's go so I buy the course I said well you know I've been here it's now it's like 8:30 at night and I said can I start because I had to get a little oral surgery so let me do so I came here for some Scientology all I got was all this everybody selling it to me I never got to do any right because I wanted to try the [ __ ] and and so now it's 8:30 and I say okay you know they say well you can start your TRS course you'll do the TRS you do the the and the TRS are these communication drills then you do the pure for you clear all the drugs out and then you do the auditing which is called objectives which is like this stuff where you walk across the room and touch the wall and all this kind of [ __ ] supposed to the end phenomenon is firmly rooted in present time I said that doesn't sound bad I'll do it okay you can deliver that cool so so I said well give me some Scientology for Christ sakes I've been here since what nine hours or something getting nothing so they say okay you can start your TRS course ldaes I go in and I do this thing called an m7 which is basically Bodhi and the supervisor are kind of helping me clear the words through and I the first thing I ever did in Scientology was read keeping Scientology working it's a pretty heavy bulletin explain what that bulletin says well it's that basically is that Scientology it's a well it's a very interesting bulletin at first it's updated so you're reading the updates I think it's written in 1965 and it was updated in 70 and 75 and those updates are before you read the actual bulletins and the updates are like l ron Hubbard just going bananas this thing is true it was true in 1965 it'll be true forever if you just follow this Scientology will never fail and it will take over the universe and will save all mankind and we're the only hope for the world so just if you apply this one policy everything will be fine now in the bulk of the [ __ ] policy is stuff of you know it's it's pretty heavy you know that if you're in Scientology an inch you're in an ounce I mean you're in for the rest of you you know this is the billionaire contract yet this is the heavy Scientology we are the only hope for mankind and whether you get it or not it's the truth and we're not here to placate you we're here to try and save the planet and we're only they were the only hope for mankind and so this is no game so that was the first thing I got I said okay you know we'll see I couldn't say you know I believe that but it was an interesting bold claim that made me say okay all the more is this [ __ ] really that good let's go so here I am I bought my little TRS and objectives and my purif and and I said to the supervisor because now by the time I finished I was 11 o'clock at night and I'm like okay well when do we start you know she said when can you come in to start the course that finish up I said you know let's talk tomorrow it could be here 7:00 in the morning and we don't start til til 9:00 I said you know I'm gonna come here to do something I've been here all day you guys say you got a product he want you know so she came in at 8 o'clock for me so I came in and I just started and I read all my [ __ ] in there and and sounded good and the first exercise is a thing called ot tr0 which is basically where you sit three feet apart from somebody you cannot have any any thinking mechanism and you close your eyes and you're totally relaxed but there's another person three feet in front of you doing the exact same thing and the exercise is to be in communication with that person and your environment but fully the key word is confronting which is he defines his facing without flinching so without thinking anything like if I'm thinking I'm doing with you I'm thinking okay Marg he's got that beard and he's probably hiding by then I'm flunking because I'm thinking instead of just being there yet without any thinking and so I have to be able to be and you do this it says until you get a major stable win okay so I said [ __ ] okay here's my first Scientology [ __ ] and I'm there with some whoever and I'm sitting there and I'm facing him without flinching and I had a major major stable win what I did according to Scientologists and I don't have any other nomenclature for it so it would work for me but I went exterior so in other words the concept would be your thetan you your soul whatever you want to call it that's who you are you're not the body I'm not Jason Beghe Jason Beghe it's like it's like buying a new car I'm the driver of the car okay so basically I went exterior and to get back to the beginning of my story I felt for the first [ __ ] time the biggest one in my life I knew who I was that question that I've been asking since I was cognizant Who am I I knew who I was and this was huge for me I said Wow and this is not even that [ __ ] auditing stuff they talked about this is just some [ __ ] you know some other things yeah and I said [ __ ] that's awesome so I was blown out of my socks happy like I and I I mean it's like oh so that's who I am you know cuz I knew I wasn't this thing because I sometimes would have this personality sometimes I was a phone sometimes I was you know you never know if you're real or not you know but then there's those moments when so it's like who are you you know and I could see I could create effects on people and stuff this is all this growing up I mean it was really interesting why would this person like me you know I knew why I liked them but why did they like me they said back in class that you didn't trust yourself why didn't you trust yours I didn't know when was go down and I say okay I want to buy this clear thing I'm gonna do that because I that's enough for me I just go right there no bread you ever had to reg me as Memphis to reg the reges they would [ __ ] run cuz I I do thanks to him you know stuff like that that [ __ ] with him I like doing that but at any rate so I go to the Reg I said I want to do this thing and I figure it's going to be like you know between 5 and 10 grand you know I didn't kiss that purif thing was like 1,100 freaking clear thing it's going to be more but I figured what the [ __ ] I had a couple of bucks saved and I said what well I buy the [ __ ] and they tell me the price of the thing fight and that's another thing you know the way they just can't say you know you know hell yeah the clear it's 11:50 you know it's like they think just happy they not used to somebody just coming in saying let me get that thing so that was hours and hours and hours I of course bode you know it's like he's in there with me and he's my ever salmon at that point you know he's going to get 10% he's excited just you know he was broke at the time and at any rate it was like 50 grand so within three weeks of no than three days and I probably had 60 grand in my name at that point I plopped down 50 I said let's go that's a huge commitment well and so that guy's everybody fell in love with me and David Miscavige called me and all that everybody but they started you know now he wrote me a letter and all this [ __ ] you know everybody's got all this excitement about me and then the other thing was that before the reason it cost 50 grand also was because they said you know training I said what's [ __ ] training and they said you mean I can't I just thought you sat there you held those cans I done it in the interview sounded easy I say yeah and if it's going to be that great and I remember reading what clear is and all that sounds pretty [ __ ] good and all I'd done is sat there and I knew who I was that's all I'd ever which probably the biggest when I had in Scientology was on that first day at any rate so I go I go to they think then they sell the training I said what's that well you learn to be an auditor I said listen you know I'm an actor I'm not an auditor you know that's cool you know but they're trying to get me to do this thing and buy a [ __ ] a meter and I you know 3,000 what for that [ __ ] lingering it looks like a [ __ ] transistor radio and but I'm like oh man okay but I trust them I figure you know because they're delivering a thing these are good people you know what I mean Ellie and I'm also looking at these people and it's these decent people they're decent and I'm trusting so and they are and and so they sell me the training they tell me finally the only reason I bought the train they said it's half the wins also you in order to get the wins of the auditing and really going clear you have to be trained I said well then give me the training package so I bought a class five training package because they said you had to be trained as its trained as you're clear I said what's a clear guy so classified now you should know that a lot of people fall for this sales thing and there is probably I would guess my guests as conservatively is there is probably 500 million dollars is my guess off the top of my head of unused training that has been bought people buy it but they can't confront it they can't face it without flinching okay me I'm a class 5 Auditor I [ __ ] did it I liked it I thought it was cool I actually got a lot of wins out of that [ __ ] so that was part of her another reason why people liked me because I was actually doing I didn't mind going I would quit I've said I don't want to go on that audition I'm going on course you know I was getting I was here to go clear I figure I can do this in about five six months what the [ __ ] you know let's go and and I basically did that you know I'd stop to do a little bit of stuff to pay the rent and basically I was I was in the org from 8:00 in the morning I had my own auditor and she just ordered me all day I think on all the other pcs off her [ __ ] line and I just went clear well I actually went through my grades and turned out I was a past life clear that's why I was so able and explain what that concept is the past life clear well what is that oh dear God past life clear well I in other words you know I was born in 1960 Scientology was developed in 1952 but LRH was doing Dianetics I'm having a moment see this is part of the moments of coming out of Scientology for me at least I would have I think it might be something common to a lot of people but their moments where you just feel a loss and it's not a loss of I miss Scientology by any stretch it's a loss it's a regret of of having invested so much in something that is empty and and so there these moments I just had one where you just go so at any rate a past life clear would be somebody because a clear isn't is if even though LRH says absolutes are unobtainable that's a state that he called a homo Novis you're not even a human being you're not even a homo sapiens anymore almost SAP as he calls it you're a homo Novis which me new man in Latin and and so it's a new state on the evolutionary track so I'm more evolved than regular mortal humans I was declared to have been somebody who had gone clear in a past life which would have been my last life even though supposedly the you know the tech wasn't there for somebody to go clear well you can go clear well now Dianetics was written in 1950 and he was talking about the state of clear and Dianetics it was not until they wanted that they I I personally believe that you know it's just that there's always something being rereleased because it's never was quite correctly done or done or understood and all the people who went clear last lifetime even though they may have been Oh t8i were pulled back in because in New Era Dianetics which was a later way of going clear there was there was a different criteria there were different criteria for what was a clear and getting rid of an Engram which is a whole thing and so you had to go in and get all the postulates off at your point what what was the what were you supposed to achieve as it clear well here's the thing I mean this is a funny thing for me and this is a I mean if you read Dianetics I mean the the state of clear is somebody who is never likely to get sick he has a perfect rememory it's even intimated and this was in 1950 when there was no is that he could be immortal he may never die it's pretty funny and so that's what the state of clearest they define it as no longer has his own reactive mind which is a rigged rigged game to get somebody to take out ot levels which is their real moneymaker but the what what what oh so was i don't know so clear so but you know like I said I've never there's a guy on the internet apparently you saying I'll give you a million bucks if you can demonstrate ot I'll give a million bucks anybody can demonstrate clear there's no [ __ ] clear there's no clear there's no clear you know I mean just looking in Dianetics there's no clear clear is basically I mean what are you kidding me clear so I was like if I get this look that's what I was going for it's too good to be true and that's basically it that's and that goes back to that feeling of loss is because you know what it is I'm sorry to say see and I'm actually realizing something for myself right now because this is this is cathartic in a way for me but it's it's it's it's the same feeling that loss is the feeling that I got I got no stupid guy I grew up in New York City and I mean I I never got mugged I need I know and I've been through some serious bad neighborhoods but I remember one time I was I was living on my own down in the village and I saw this guy running across the street and he had like a VCR this is back when VCRs were a new thing like a plasma TV or something and he's like you know he'd obviously stolen the thing and he's like you know hey you can have this for 50 bucks right and I bought it took it home and it was full of bricks and [ __ ] you know and I was [ __ ] folk I got conned and that's the feeling of loss because I taught it actually going back you're asking me about clear it's a con it's a con and like any and you know it's an interesting I mean this is way segwaying but this is something I don't know if it'll be it's interesting is that you know there's a book that Dale rh wrote called the history of man and he talks about a lot of these traps that can catch a thetan which is something that has no matter in history space time or location but it can catch a thetan but he's got interest in curiosity right and and so and so there's these things called theta traps and so uh and the best theta traps are ones that the thetan runs on autopilot like if I'm trying to enslave somebody the last thing I want to do is have to worry about [ __ ] you know keeping the key and the lock and you know the best traps you get a guy to just keep himself in jail right and that's what Scientology does you just keep yourself in jail and then you you know that's it you it's it's it's a perfect theta trap because you you know you believe it and you were investing your time and your money and so it's you know you can't be a fool that's too much to confront you know well you were a kid you were saying you were able to look at your dad or your uncle and you could really perceive them and understand them and know them yeah when you looked around at the people in the org and and you trusted them do you think that there was a misperception there or were you well that I tell you I got to be honest is that the more I got in the stupider I got that's my as I get out that's my perception the less I mean Christ you don't even ask questions I mean that's what I was trying to remember the other day that I was going to say that I had forgotten like this thing I got into they made me as commissioner of CCHR I'm talking to Tory and and the CCHR is because citizens Commission on Human Rights is a way to try and destroy psychiatry in psychology and I was like fine I don't give a [ __ ] and so you know they put my name on their stationery and fine and got me out of an ethics cycle or something so I say okay and but I would go and I and I and I always had questions you know because I I would I would you know even l ron Hubbard you know he would always call the psychs and he would rail about them and how terrible they are and they're the sole course of destruction but he would never I kept saying you know his own technology says that's a generalization of the Sykes who Sykes on the whole track that means all psychiatrists for billions of years in the history of theta you know it's like it's so general and that would be that's a that's a characteristic of a suppressive person as one who speaks in generalities and another one is somebody a person who has overt switch or chair sins or crimes committed is somebody who's you know antagonistic or angry and he seemed very antagonistic and angry about Sykes so I was thinking he must have you know overts on him and he's speaking about him in generalities but the thing about I was thinking about that that I went over to see CHR and got tours ad infinitum by the the directors this woman Jan Eastgate and I would ask questions and she'd write me up and ethics chits and [ __ ] and I said fine yeah I got the question I don't [ __ ] know but I would say if you want me to represent Scientology's viewpoint and you go to their Museum it's all the psychs are bad --sykes are bad this is a bad thing and Hitler and they're responsible for child pornography and rape and it's all the psychs and I say okay that's their viewpoint I say but if I'm going to get into a discussion you know if you want to prepare me to be in a spokesman for this [ __ ] I got to know the other side so Pio and I kept asking can you give me the other side and they won't give it to you and every time I would push it I'd be like honey there's no way to get into the argument that you know they're not if it's all this is true there wouldn't be anything I got to know their viewpoint how am I going to win the argument you know what I mean and they wouldn't give me the viewpoint and it says a day and it was like and then they started to write me up because I'm ma I'm doubting I'm not saying I'm doubting or nothing I just waiting for the data which isn't this whole big thing about learning how to think correctly is this other course called the data series and the basically you have to get all the data they won't give you any [ __ ] data on certain things and especially about this there's nothing written in all the tomes of Scientology about psychiatry nothing other than the psychs are responsible for all your sexual problems because they implanted you as a thetan very very high ten years ago and I realize that on my research of ot ten oh well then it must be true because LRH says it's so I mean it's it's really you see how at a certain point you get conned and I would saying where's the [ __ ] data I say to everybody and they'd show you and nobody's allowed to tell you anything so they pull out a reference they always pull out this [ __ ] reference called pain and sex and there's like he's talking about pain and sex are these things that that are really just dogging people and bothering a minutes it's a really difficult thing that we're trying to help you with in Scientology and basically there's a maybe two sentences in there where lr8 says through my research on the whole tract Votey something or other I just discovered that this is all because of Sykes and that's the reference they tell you to prove that the [ __ ] Hitler and rape is a I'm like honey that doesn't quite handle it you know but they don't get it now I look at this as an outsider and and to me and I don't have vast knowledge of this but it seems like the psychiatric field sprung forth in in the 1800s or not not you know thousands of years ago or millions of years ago how Arthur Sykes on the whole track because if there weren't Sykes not lovely because now the latest these are the evil people these are the evil beings actually these are the evil beings and they've been around they you know like you hear about Xenu and all that [ __ ] Xenu was a psych you got it so he just wasn't really nitrous no he was practicing Zeno ISM you got it now they're called Sykes so you better beware I remember one time I visited [ __ ] me gunkid one time I visited the Celebrity Center and and it just walked in late at night and looked around said well what goes on in here right and they they woke up the projectionists to show me the orientation and I said my own private screening tonight and they had some poor Sea Org kid maybe 15 16 year old years old babysitting me in the theater right well you're not allowed to watch the movie alone right boy was not allowed to do what because you could get at em you like he was watching to make sure you didn't have any lack of masks kind of [ __ ] and he was making small talk before that and he was saying well you know you remember the Salem witch trials ago uh-huh you know was the psychs behind that but well I I don't think there was psychiatrist back Fannie to anyone oh no no not the psychs I mean the the pharmaceutical companies oh dear goodness no not quite see these are the kids you just gotta you know you're - off a get well soon card and that's about it because it's it's sad you know that's and that's that's and you know this is the interesting thing this is the and it goes back to you know to answer further the question of you know what did you perceive you what I perceived and I and I kind of avoided the question by saying I got stupider but let me tell you something these are good people these are these are these are some of the best people you can meet these are people really want to help they're willing I mean they're willing to give up their entire life and their own personal ambition to help others you know that's a that's a pretty rare and and and and generally you would say you know it's it's a pretty decent person that that's the thing you know and I would say I'm not a bad person you know if I saw me walking around there I'd say okay he's okay you know but when you say you got stupider how do you think that happened well what bullet in my opinion again and I'm only out of Scientology about a year or so less less than a year officially but in my opinion what I what I've gathered as I as I wake up you know it's a funny thing in Scientology you feel as though you're waking up to the truth the reality or what really is but what you're doing is waking up to the reality of Scientology which is that not the actual reality which is the the they agreed upon universe of what is and and and basically in my opinion in my opinion the best thing you can be is yourself and and that's who you are and that you know there's there's degrees to which you can actually become yourself and and that's probably what the whole spiritual interest is I you know I for me I don't really know but what what Scientology the trick of it is it makes you feel as though you're sold that you're actually becoming yourself but what you're actually becoming is my name is Jason Beghe I was becoming Jason Beghe the Scientologist rather than Justin not even Jason Beghe but me and the trick is and you say how do you fall for this [ __ ] go back to my first [ __ ] win because it's me it's me and so there is there is you but then it's you are through I can't explain it pressure of the group or I can't this is the thing I'm trying to get because I've never been like a guy well I got to get a pair of those shoes cuz everybody's wearing them I has not been I've been although I got to find my own if everybody's wearing those things but it's like maybe that's how I got out to some degree is that I always try you know I mean I'm not saying I had never you know you know bought a BMW or whatever the [ __ ] people want to do you know but it's like it's it to me it gives you a way of thinking that at least for me and from what I observe of others is not native to that actual that person I think as I said before in my opinion I suspect I'm knows Dalai Lama but I think that the best thing you can be is yourself and that if you can do that truthfully it'll be beautiful and successful and and interesting I don't know about success like how you define it but it'll be a worthwhile time spent and and what happens is you you you are sold and you again the trap is good because you sell it to yourself because if you're not on course you're wanting to be on course you should be uncle you've got your own self in jail it's an autopilot gig it's quite good I think there's some hypnotism in there or something I don't quite know but it's quite surprising and and so at the end of the thing you end up being you know like here's an example you start the ethics technology so you start thinking okay and you start thinking in terms of the conditions of existence that he laid out and that these are behaviors and so you now you're not just going you know what the [ __ ] I think I need to take a walk and I think I got to become I'm gonna be a you know an insurance salesman and that's my truth you know it's you know you have to go through these steps and do this it's like [ __ ] it's not it's not true it's not true you know and I did ethics cycles and conditions and make nothing changed I've seen people who've done them and they've changed that so I don't know you know whatever you know but there's a placebo effect I don't quite know Tory how many times did you do the PT SSP course you have to every time you go pts which is the human condition you got to do the course over and do this [ __ ] let me tell you something it's it's a that's another racket pts I'm not sure if we got pts discrepancy potential trouble source so all injury accident and illness listen to those three words oh oh injury accident illness how full is all because of pts everything everything negative that happens is because pts which means you are AP potential T trouble s source wow that sounds weird a potential trouble source so in other words not only did you just slip and and and and split your lip but you better get away from this guy because if you're near him you're going to split your lip to and your business is going to fail he's a potential trouble source so you got to take him out it's like he's got you know it's like you don't come to school with the flu this is what this is like the spiritual flu so it's like heavy [ __ ] and now there's only one reason that you are a potential trouble source one reason is that you're connected to an SP which is a suppressive person now this is the two and a half percent of awful people like Tory who are [ __ ] it up for the rest of us good people and and oh it's a funny thing it's funny you know the you know as I zip around my best friend this is my best friend I mean like this is a guy that I was in ninth grade I met this guy and like I saw this guy came to my school in ninth grade and I said I saw this guy and I and I and I was a gregarious kind of kid and he was know and I saw him and I said you know something you and I are going to be friends I think that's the first thing I ever said to him and and I was right he's a big famous actor now and an amazing guy David Duchovny and and David my best friend I mean I'm talking about a friend our relationship was adversely affected by my being in Scientology he was very cool you know but he wasn't into it he wasn't he was happy for me he never gave me any [ __ ] thing about it you know but and I think his wife you know I purse I know I perceived that you know she was a little bit more like like that at any radar and they were right but you know and then everybody in Scientology as a generalization I'll give you people Marty Rathbun Susan Watson Dave Pettit a couple of RTC terminals people said well he's a he's at one 1sp okay in other words trying to destroy my relationship with a man it affected our relationship one one is a is this as a as a as a definition is covertly hostile hey man I'm your friend I really am you [ __ ] you know that's covertly Hospital covertly hospital and and so one of the first things I did I mean you know we'd stay in communication but the further I got in like that that's a loss you know let alone my family you know no but my family you know [ __ ] they don't [ __ ] with me or anything you know but I've never been closer than now that I'm out you know because they weren't into it everybody was totally respectful of me nobody ever said you know my mother said one thing wants you I just don't think it you know allows for the grace of God or something that was y'all something you know because she's big Christian thing of course I whipped out the whiz bucket I gave her the right answer and handled her you know but the the thing with David this is just the other thing when I was thinking about the I was laughing is as I got out when I got out one of the first people I went to go see was David and you know his whole family was out of town and I was just moving here and now we live in the same city and that's how I went over to his house and you know we're just walking around and and we talked about it a little bit just a little bit you know because I just sell by the way yes I okay so we started to talk a little bit about like the IOT levels and stuff like that you know and you know he doesn't watch South Park or whatever the [ __ ] but you know he doesn't know this holes so uh you know what is that you know what is the you know what were you into why what is the OT you know so I don't know what the EP asked to quit but somehow I went I explained him and Here I am you know just kind of just kind of basically it just walked out the door and and it did so much for me but I started to explain to him the story of xeno and loyal officers and I tell you [ __ ] me I mean I couldn't get a third of the way through the story and we had our faces on the floor we were laughing so hard I mean you couldn't even talk yours just because it's so it's [ __ ] it's insane it's how was your reaction though when you saw the packet with the info how did you react well that's the other thing I got to say I mean like I had told you earlier I had I had been on a spiritual journey long before Scientology this data is is just it's it's it's as different as the word Phaeton is different from the word spirit it's about that different I mean the Bible talks about the devil and demons it's nomenclature the you know entities is what they talk about in these New Age religions so this all that stuff about Satan's I mean it was a little because I was in Scientology heavily so I was a little bit like this but I thought okay and I remember that was my thought I said okay well that's obviously it wasn't that big of a surprise to me and I just thought it's like one of those moments now that I look back and really look at it there was a moment where I could have woken up there but you choose not to and that's part of the reason why Scientology's expensive you know well if you're paying a lot of money for it it makes it more valuable and you give it more it's like I was just listening the [ __ ] radio today there's this guy he was working at MTV and they were in New York this is just on NPR today this guy and and he was on this art channel on NPR and he's working at MTV and they were talking about packaging and marketing and how important it is and the guy and and and he was talking and saying it was important and that it was this other guy said it's not that important he says [ __ ] and they had a little bit of an argument he said well let me see let me show you something and he went he was in New York and he went he cried little garbage and he put them in little plastic boxes and he put a little stamp on them and dated him and signed the you know and numbered them and he selling them for 50 bucks each as art started his 10 bucks as just and that was like a little gift but now that they're up there fifty and a hundred bucks each the people are actually calling them art so it's an interesting thing so again it's your own it's your Drive in the car it's just that you don't realize that the car as a Scientologist because you're in the trap it's got a pre rigged route it's called the bridge and so you feel like this is this easy life I just got to sit here and the car basically drives itself all I got to do is show up at the church and I'll be happy and there you are and you're on the bridge to total freedom to total freedom yeah they free you from yourself that's one of the ironic things about Scientology when they have a slogan called thing yourself yeah and you find yourself thinking exactly what Scientology wants you to think it's no but you're doing it yourself that's why it's pretty good I mean it's really insidious it's it's quite a it's it's so bold and bald-faced that you know you just would never suspect it you know it's another reminds me remember those I used to smoke cigarettes and so I smoking cigarettes and I wanted to quit and I couldn't quit and I'm smoking smoking and then these new cigarettes came out from American spirits and I see and they're supposed to be all natural right and the [ __ ] thing on it it said addictive free and I said [ __ ] so I started smoking and I'm down to like two cigarettes a day and I'm like [ __ ] disseminating the [ __ ] out of these things they're the best cigarettes in the world and I'm telling everybody these are addictive three I'm hardly smoking at all I say look it's addictive freeze if that's not they says additive free that was right back to a pack a day so it's the same kind of you know what I'm saying it's it's a it's a it's it's you know you're playing the game by yourself it's a it's a it's a mental well it's I don't think it's fair to say by yourself because there's it seems like this entire structure of Scientology but it's built to to funnel you onto the bridge and keep you on the bridge yes yes and those people those people that I suspect again I'm not an expert and this is some of the things this is one of the things that I can't fully confront yet I can say that in my opinion that doesn't lion share at least at least well over 99% of your Sea Org people are the truest of the true believers okay so they are really there - they're trying to help you and they'll they'll not take no for an answer it's like you know your son wants to touch the stove and you know you're willing to physically stop him even though he's sure that he wants to to see that beautiful blue thing that's dancing there and touch it right maybe even put his hair in it or something you know what I mean didn't know what fires they are willing to give their lives practically to keep you on the bridge because this is for your own good so but they are doing it that's just one individual and that individual is is doing his job he's there's not a lot of them that need to be told to get up in the morning they're on autopilot too but the whole group is it becomes you know this this living breathing thing and the thing that I haven't quite confronted is I can't quite see what the [ __ ] anybody gets out of it like you know is Co B does he want 300 million dollars is that what it is does he want a billion dollars and she'll be as David miss yeah I mean is that it is it just his power hard-on is you know I or is it just insanity you know I mean I wonder his LRH was he just crazy you know they're people of me maybe he was an SP you know whatever oh but I don't know I mean the jury's out for me I haven't like I said I can't confer I don't see what the [ __ ] like if I wanted money I know for me if I wanted a billion dollars or something like that I couldn't do that that wouldn't be away from me I you see what I'm saying I wouldn't I couldn't do it I'd probably kill myself you know what I mean I just couldn't live with myself like I certainly couldn't look my son in the eye you know what I mean but that's me and maybe that's me pts maybe I'm [ __ ] up maybe that's my conscience whatever the [ __ ] that is but do you see what I'm saying I I don't know I I haven't quite had that confront of truth or evil depending on what you want but I don't know what the [ __ ] anybody wants out of it whoever's who's dead like all this money is a big thing where does it go we see recently there was a video released of Tom Cruise's birthday aboard the freewinds and and I understand that there was six figures spent on the birthday party for Tom and that's parishioners money going to keep Tom Cruise happy well that they figure that's worth it you know they you know according to him he brings it he brings in just him being Tom Cruise per their viewpoint he probably brings in a hundred thousand a day for this church in terms of interest and positive public relations and you know so six figures ain't dick right you know that you know it's certainly you could throw a party for him every day and it wouldn't really put a dent in their bank account so I don't know what the you know a party you know people like to get mad at ce o--'s who take these big things and and Tom Cruise is party and there was some [ __ ] free winces let me tell you is a fleabag I mean it's a it's not a [ __ ] nice boat you know I mean I've been on that thing I got seasick every time so but speaking of Tom Cruise you're talking earlier about your your your identity being stripped and being replaced with that of Scientologists and certainly you can see that in Tom Cruise and anybody videotaped I was really I mean I I mean I yeah but I would suspect that that's what's happened you know and he was off for a while and you know he's in gung-ho you know I'm sure he went through a big epic cycle and woke up you know because he probably had some trouble with his wife and he found his rule and you know I think it's brought I mean I would just maybe his he has trouble with girls or something like that you know that might be is whatever I don't know anyway he's at any rate he seems like the you know ideal ideal of what a Scientologist should be I mean dedicated well I was in there you know but Theo be called me the poster boy for Scientology I was I was his gung-ho as you could get how did it turn around for you why did you start to doubt well it's it's it not only didn't work anymore the more auditing I did which I was more and more encouraged to do the worse I got I was starting to go [ __ ] crazy and it was [ __ ] me up how far up the bridge did he go I'm a class 5 OT 5 I've done all my elves done a lot of what do you call those [ __ ] things you know all those other courses data series things and blah blah blah one of the things you know what's interesting to me there was a big thing about maybe two years ago or a year and a half ago that everybody wanted you to listen to your Congress which is the all the Congress was this you know meeting that LRH had started in 1960s and he would get a group of people together and he would give a series of lectures on X and usually it was about it all really had to do with clearing because all these the congress's were having to do with clearing and and I let me give you remember that I'm talking about the Congress's I'm going to give you the unabridged version it's that okay sure you sure okay when I was in that TRS course my very first week in Scientology now again I'm going to hack there so you know communication is something I kind of do for a living so and that's a whole course of our communication so I felt like I'm pretty good at this naturally and one of the exercises is you take oh they use Alice in Wonderland which has got full of these wild kind of sentences and you take it and you read it to yourself and then you deliver it as your own that's a TR one TR two is properly acknowledge somebody so they say off with your head and you say thank you to make sure they know it and ended and there's all these other things now here I was doing this TR it was happened to be TR to and somebody set off with your head and I said my god and they flunk me and I said why they said you know because you're showing you know it's supposed to be just thank you good whatever I said no read the [ __ ] a says appropriate acknowledgement if somebody says off with your head the apply do you think he chose Allison wonder and they bring the technical the head technical person the [ __ ] place and they're all in validating the [ __ ] out of me and I'm sticking to my guns I finally am crying I said you guys are [ __ ] wrong who the [ __ ] talks like that thank you I got it okay good wow that would be way too much Wow okay I totally duplicate that this is the way you're supposed to talk I'm really talking to you but do you see how I'm not so it's there I'm doing this is perfect in terms of their idea all right I got it okay so that's really that was good TRS wasn't excellent excellent tea ours is more like this you know you're really conversational but I'm not moving and I'm really looking at you and I'm ready for everything and I don't blink and I'm not really your eyes stink okay so it's that kind of [ __ ] deal some gum worse ooh up anyway the that's just a private joke you know that one right anyway Moo goo gai pan these are words that are just so you can talk gibberish in Scientology to help you learn your TRS and one of the things written down is some gum war sooo up that's not a sentence that's like written like Chinese s um anyway so at any rate so I'm in there and I'm [ __ ] crying and [ __ ] and like blah blah blah so finally I stopped and I and I told the line and I'm like thank you okay good you know and then about four years later in some event um Co B David Miscavige says hey there's been this big breakthrough in this Golden Age of tech [ __ ] piece of [ __ ] they they and one of the things is here's the real thing on people have been doing the improper acknowledgement you're supposed to have it says appropriate acknowledgement and they have LRH on tape saying you know somebody said off with your head and he goes my god that's the right way to do it so here I was this guy first day of school and I had it right now cut - you're asking me how I got out so I'm in the [ __ ] thing and they keep telling me I got to do this action and I got to do this and you got to do this a sec checking and all this [ __ ] and I'm like you [ __ ] people I wouldn't show up here if I wasn't ready and they would be set checking which is basically asking me for my crimes and charging me thousand I probably paid fifty grand excuse me in inset checks to get this [ __ ] together because everything was [ __ ] up so it must be that I'm I'm [ __ ] up and I kept saying these SEC checks are killing me this is the standard tech now this is the Golden Age attack and I finally just said you know something [ __ ] I don't care you could get Ella rates to fly down here back from [ __ ] target two and tell me that I am [ __ ] doing it wrong I am NOT going in session and doing this [ __ ] you guys are [ __ ] killing me I am here to tell you you're [ __ ] me up so I'm out of here until you [ __ ] wake up okay and then they come back to my house and they're offering me free auditing I say show me where free auditing is standard you're not giving me standard tech now you want to fix it by more on standard [ __ ] get the [ __ ] out here you ask Griffey blithe and the whole rest of those [ __ ] in a oh if this is a lie it's the [ __ ] truth and I'm out and then they call and I just went on course because I couldn't take any more this [ __ ] auditing was killing me so then they come out with this thing that Jason you have to see this I wouldn't even go to events you know because me I'm an event everybody say hey how you doing and I go good I just couldn't [ __ ] lie anymore I'm ready [ __ ] die you know I said I told him I'm not going I can't participate because my role was like Jason Beghe I couldn't be like yeah well tell you the truth I'm [ __ ] up I ate ot5 and everything's going [ __ ] shitty and it's [ __ ] not working and it's costing me a shitload of money and I'm more unhappy than I've ever been in my entire [ __ ] life what would happen if he spoke truthfully well I would tell that true I would talk to RTC and all these things but it's bad P it's none of anybody else's business you're not supposed to talk about your case so this is going on honey this is going on for I was in Scientology maybe 10 11 years the last eight years like that okay and I'm paying [ __ ] money maybe I paid a million [ __ ] dollars I don't know I don't even keep track I just said what the okay you're another [ __ ] this is going to work you think so yeah we finally got it so anyway on this [ __ ] thing I'm out of thing and I'm doing course and I'm just off auditing lines you know and then you've got to see this thing Jason he's going to [ __ ] key you out and I go in and they show me this [ __ ] and I'm looking at all these people who are on ot7 and they're going nuts with the SEC checks too and I'm like this is [ __ ] crazy these people like you know they're supposed to be home auditing and then they have to go to flag every six months and they're there for like six [ __ ] weeks how you supposed to what are you crazy and they're coming home I had a really good six months check I mean these [ __ ] I said I mean it's just as clear as day I tell you this is not [ __ ] standard Scientology it's not supposed to make you worse I saw I was experiencing it and watching it so now they come out and this is two three years and this little mistake probably made the church about five hundred million dollars and then about five hundred million dollars later see OB gives a [ __ ] briefing on the freewinds and this is what they show me is arbitraries cancelled it's an arbitrary is what they say so in other words all this cept checking was an arbitrary and through his research and looking into things and rechecking all the LRH is notes they realize they made a mistake and so now I don't have to do the SEC check aren't you happy Jason and all these people like on seven like a bunch of [ __ ] idiots we're like arbitraries have cancelled I can just go on and it's going to save me about fifty grand a year and all this [ __ ] and it's like wow and me I'm like you think that's supposed to make me [ __ ] happy I feel like you should have a [ __ ] apology I said if I were Co being I made that mistake I wouldn't go arbitraries cancelled I say I made a [ __ ] mistake I am sorry and I'd make up the [ __ ] damage I pay my [ __ ] mistake made me 500 [ __ ] million dollars and you don't [ __ ] even say you're sorry you say guess what and this is what the [ __ ] thing does it just plays the same game over and over again and this when I going now to the Congress the Congress I toured the end of this eight years they say the guy and I'm like off auditing you know I finished you know ot5 finally and I just said I don't want any more of this [ __ ] they na that nobody even said take ot7 because apparently I'm in the middle of four different [ __ ] actions and nobody knows what to do you know so I'm [ __ ] in the middle of oil ten you know I mean I could tell you about ten is a story in itself l ten is a story so just know that they use my [ __ ] winds on the elves and the elves are what [ __ ] me up in Scientology okay the now I do the I do the so I go and I say [ __ ] it okay I'll buy these congress's is only a couple of thousand bucks and I got something to do and I'll get in shape I'll listen with Congress and go for a walk so I was one of the first people to finish the congress's cuz I decide I get up and I'm [ __ ] thing and I get up early I get up at like 5:00 and I just get up and I take the dog and I go and I listen to three tapes and walk for an hour or two and do the thing and I saw I got through the Congress and me the Congress's are part of what got me out of Scientology because if you listen those [ __ ] congress's it goes like this hi everybody I'm LRH I'm very happy you're here listen I've got great [ __ ] news we've got clear handled and you do this thing and it's this new technology and here's the realization and this is foolproof and this is it and this is that's it and now welcome to 1964 okay apparently you know because the [ __ ] thing didn't work in Dianetics didn't work even though nobody ever said it didn't but they always trying to perfect clear then the next Congress and there were what 20 30 of these [ __ ] Congress's maybe about I don't know 200 hours or some [ __ ] every [ __ ] Congress is I got at this now we've got clear handled we finally got clear and this is going on over I'm listening from 1964 to like 1970 and they still haven't [ __ ] handled clear but they're selling you clear and I said what the [ __ ] that's exactly what they're doing to me now I said what the [ __ ] and I went back then I'm talking to Dave Pettit who's the head of CC who now is handling my case personally personally you know he's my house he's at my [ __ ] thing we're taking walks I almost killed him once I [ __ ] took a brother tie and I was ground him but I [ __ ] you know Jason flues office okay I actually worked secretly recording it it's funny and have it on but uh the [ __ ] thing he didn't want me to leave please don't leave please only I said [ __ ] get out of the way and I will [ __ ] kill you he wouldn't get out of the way so I took my tie and put him down on the floor and then I walked out but because it'll get you pissed but that's how mad I was i mean i'm i was [ __ ] up it's one thing to feel unhappy from i mean I walked into Scientology member I was on the top of the thing it must been false though I'm I was [ __ ] happy and I'm [ __ ] unhappy and they're paying me they're making me pay to get [ __ ] up and they're and they're telling me what's wrong with me and that's another [ __ ] thing they won't tell you what the next thing is and I'm like yeah believe me it's good so you got to [ __ ] buy the thing for 50 G's a pop or whatever and it's wrong oops made a mistake we're gonna do this now are you [ __ ] are you [ __ ] crazy do you see how stupid I was yeah I mean it's like oh my god and that's the game and I'm telling you that's the game so at any rate the Congress has helped me out because I said what the [ __ ] it's because I never met Alan rates and I figured he was good I figure Scientology works it's just these [ __ ] mortals can't [ __ ] give me Scientology if Scientology works a hundred percent of the time this ain't [ __ ] working so I'm not getting Scientology and that's what I said to him I said that's why I said you guys should give me the [ __ ] money it's one thing to make a [ __ ] mistake but you know let's say the last [ __ ] 600 grand was a [ __ ] mistake I mean there I feel like I got a case because if Scientology works and they agreed this didn't work I bought Scientology then you should give me my [ __ ] money back and there's nothing to indicate that they have any [ __ ] hope for my case now so I just said you know babies let's just and I fir time I was trying to be nice I mean six eight months I say why don't we just let me go just let me go just let me go you know I think it's better want to get into a whole [ __ ] thing with me and they would and they had to keep changing terminals because I was I mean I'm talking about big [ __ ] terminals because I would put doubt in their universe because you can't argue with my story when you saw what happened to [ __ ] me and you're a trained oddity and you look in my [ __ ] folder they [ __ ] me up you I mean I mean I'm talking about insane I mean I mean like I'm like huh I mean I've never been like that in my life I walked out I was like hey hi I would never shy I was never introverted or any I'm sitting there like I'm oh now you know what I mean and so I mean ever they [ __ ] me the [ __ ] ah you all the way out the way through I mean there's no reason to get in that room maybe that was the hidden deep [ __ ] I'm looking at my kid he's five years old he's a happy [ __ ] guy he's not [ __ ] up yet he might get [ __ ] up later are you sure you were [ __ ] up maybe you were just pts to an SP well that's what I'm saying and that's the other thing I had this big [ __ ] car accident in the middle of OT five I nearly died I was in a coma for three and a half weeks I mean I was [ __ ] like everybody thought I was going to die so of course we got to find my pts terminal that happened eight and a half years ago okay and I got out of Scientology a year in the last seven and a half years in Scientology still no [ __ ] pts item until I finally said it's you guys and they couldn't deny it I said look at the data are you sure it's not that person he's gay but I mean somebody told me I mean that's how naive some of these people that's it that's it that's a that's a that's a what do you call it an RTC terminal which is like that the gold standard of technical perfection and that they think that's a gold homosexual so they believe that homosexuals are all 1.1 they still believe that there's some that do I never believed that I read reported it differently but it was something where I had to do some mental gymnastics in order to make work well that's what Hubbard wrote though that they were what's debatable well I know that he wrote he said something like in and he said your homosexuals when he's saying the the 1.1 so I don't know if it's all homosexuals or or what yet the church says that they've changed what sexuality the church said they change that the church has said that they they no longer you know think negatively about homosexuals realize I've never heard the word [ __ ] more than when I hang around people at gold till the point where I said you know I don't like it my brother is gay and he sure ain't one one you know I got great great friends of mine that are gay you know you're telling me Leonardo da Vinci is one one I I don't think so you know if he's covertly hostile I I mean he's got so much that he did that was good that you know as much hostility as he may have exuded I think he made up for it you see yeah I mean that's I did just I don't I don't I don't buy it I never bought it and now you know again in my own my universe when I was in it you know I just thought you know because you you part of the thing when you're in it you know LRH is this super duper guy so you make them into your own super duper guy I suppose probably you're looking at the current management David Miscavige CEO be and you're thinking well was he is he in it for the money what's your view of l ron hubbard now well Mike you know I mean I again I don't have all the data I read some of the books that are out that are critical bare face Messiah and madman or magician to whatever was madman or something Messiah night that one may and piece of blue sky piece of blue sky and you know and then there's stories yeah I think that you know so I don't know if all that's true but it it's consistent what one of the ways for me that I can detect whether something is is true or false is for inconsistencies you know you say the guy you know wore blue shoes and here's a picture of men red shoes so I never saw anything inconsistent but you know I didn't see it with my own eyes but there's a you know the person seemed reliable but again Here I am I'm just pulling out of this thing and I thought LRH was reliable and I don't I don't think so now I mean I look you know and you know the whole death and the death certificate and all this stuff it's hard to argue it you know it seemed like he was you know and his kids you know like my wife is she my wife is an interesting person to talk to as well because she's class 5 OT 5 or class 4 ot 5 and but she's like one of those people she could probably you know do heroin for like for a year and then just say uh you know what it's making me too skinny and just put it down you know what I mean she's not a person you know and she she was seeing everybody loved her you know a whole lot of you know she was Jason Beghe his wife to some degree over there but she's uh she's a remarkable person in her own right and one of the ways is that she just doesn't she's one of those people who just can't brainwash so when she got out it was kind of like you know that's it she did you know she ain't even talking it was like I said you know honey I'm thinking about doing is yeah I think she was like you know okay fine whatever flip the burger and yeah you know cuz I think there you know could she had said she had always pointed out things that were inconsistent also and whoa all these [ __ ] ot's that aren't OT like that's Oh tea and what's an OT supposed to be somebody who's at least able somebody who can like walk and chew gum I mean there's people that are ot that are some of the most incompetent stupid people I mean when I say and that's how my definition of stupid is not you know necessarily it's not it doesn't have anything to do with with with a data or education it has it has to do with being able to say I mean I'm talking about people put their hand on the stove and go hey hey hey my hands hot my hand is hot you know I'm talking about that kind of stupid I mean and like unreal unreal what's wrong with you what's wrong with you so that you know there's some real dopes that have you know but they have money and they're successful and they feel good about themselves because they're on seven well I'm on seven now it's [ __ ] great I gotta tell you gotta get on seven yeah it's that kind of thing and that gives them a thing in here and you look at him and it's a and you know and Scientologists know and I talked to like big Victor I said what the [ __ ] if we've sort of it what is that you know what is that you know cuz these people you know I might have had an issue with them and they'll write me up and they'll bring me to ethics I gotta handle this thing and I had all they have been the thing they wrote up I'd say what do you want me to say it's true I guess and they go well you know I'm not gonna say the name you know he's what you know is right now go yeah okay we just had to bring it anchors written up you want to you know write eight I don't give a [ __ ] put it in the folder you know so I mean it's do you understand what I'm saying yeah so that was some of the stuff that she would just like you know really go nutty on any even me here I was I told you the further I went up the [ __ ] bridge the more KC I became you know I met this girl and I was you know and she could see the more I do this [ __ ] you know whatever it wasn't it wasn't handling dick so once you left how did you leave they wouldn't let me leave they just I mean they just kept saying no no no no no no and so I said okay give me my money back and that what I had was you know money on account and per their policy if you ask for your money that was it and they did give it back are they they gave my wife's money back they offered to give me my money back and I'm still in a they want me to sign a piece of paper that says that I have no further claim against them and I told them I can't do that because I feel I do and I just said you know I mean I I don't have the time or the money to get into a legal battle even though like it's a million dollars they probably owe me conservatively and in this country you could do pain and suffering maybe I could get a couple extra bucks I I just don't it's tough to litigate Scientology yeah but I'm not going to sign some paper that says I don't you know I just couldn't it's just my own integrity I couldn't you know I couldn't I couldn't say that so what's happened since you left Scientology I was talking to your wife a little bit earlier and she was talking about how you know the friends cut off from her who you know those who were still in Scientology yeah well you know I mean Jesus I got a little I got a little son too and he was in a little Scientology school and it was four at the time and no school was started we moved so we're in the process of moving so it was pretty and moving to a big we moved to this big property out here it's a big different thing and it's a long way away and they kicked him out of school it was a Scientology school yeah kicked him out okay so he had nothing to do and it [ __ ] him up because he had you know why can't I see my friends and that was just all his friends and you know and this was a time when you know mom and dad were really busy I'm working we've got a little tiny infant at the time and we're moving to an enormous thing and plus for this whole place here in was under construction there was a period weary enough one of those Airstream type of things you know and and no nothing for him to do and that was that that was so that was one so yeah my our friends I mean I knew I could see I was pulling away so I'm kind of an antisocial personality anyway so I don't really hang around people you know but my wife you know with the kids and stuff she I remember there's a girl a wonderful girl Kelly Kelly Daniels terrific chick and she found out you know some ethics person told her and she just was inconsolable you know Brooke so I know there are a lot of broken hearts on the other side and now there's not I saw some [ __ ] kid like that I hardly know you know I do voiceovers too so I went to a voiceover and there was some kid from Scientology and I usually if I'd see him at a voiceover hey Jason you know and he would you know and I like I just said you [ __ ] Punk as I said though it's just like you that it you see the daddy that's that's it in a nutshell you know even both of them are alive the Jason because we're Scientologists and though because you're out and so when you look at the thing about it's it's really really the data shows from the fact that Tori's husband left her these people they families are just there's the proof there's the proof you're incapable of being a good friend if you're a Scientologist because it's you're a Scientologist and Jason Beghe the Scientologist is willing to lose David is willing to sacrifice certainly the quality of my relationship with mom and dad and brothers and sisters and God knows who else that I could have made friends with that weren't Scientologist because whatever maybe they just didn't understand or whatever and my whole [ __ ] the the most important thing in my life for me again going back to who I was as a kid was a guy who was interested in people and I wasn't like judging people like I was just willing to be them and maybe that's why I became an actor and I grew up in New York and I was like this is people people people every day growing up I would meet somebody you're on the subway and now you know people go to the Home Depot with me and we go and I hanging we talk and we do a thing and then that's who I am and in to some degree you're not able to to communicate because you can't what you're you're you've got a bubble around yourself it's it's this thing and there's another way that part of the thing that I that always that made it a little bit easier for me to get out of Scientology than other people was that I would always look at the religion side and it's like because again I was always interested in religion and when they get exclusive it you got to wonder you know when in other words you know the I don't have anything against anybody's religion it's fine but you know the evangelicals are the only ones going to have it and the Muslims are the only one going to Allah whatever and these and the Scientologists are the only people who know I go well I don't think so I make sense to me you know and there's an interesting story like one of the things that like they said that like one of the things that took the biggest hits on religion in this century was it [ __ ] up a lot of people you know world war one was a [ __ ] just awful war different than others with gases and mustard gas and it was terrible and people were slaughtered and it [ __ ] up a lot of the Germans and the Americans when they'd go and they'd see their bodies and they saw that they had the same Bible they said whoa I thought God was on my side and it's the same and it apparently so it's like this kind of you know when when things are bringing people further away from others and and distancing them and Scientology to the degree that I'm a different species you're a [ __ ] I'm a homo Novis and I'm homo Novis enough to be loving of you you see what I'm saying that's that's pretty bad you know and then you look at that you know and radical Islam you know it's like it's not that different and yet Scientology says that they're not exclusive that you can certainly be any other religion and be a Scientologist let me tell you something I talked to many many many terminals about this because after a certain point when I'm down on the [ __ ] bottom after going through this and I and I've never complained about money and I'm not rich but I never complained about it you never had the [ __ ] begged me for a [ __ ] thing I would go in and throw down when I was ready to do it I'd say let's go and it wasn't ever I wasn't ready because I didn't have the bread it was I wanted to be ready because I wanted to if I'm gonna [ __ ] do this thing I'm gonna do it you know and I got to be behind it and that's where I was at as a Scientologist and and but I told those [ __ ] people cause they're always talking about you know what they're doing you know why they need all this money you know what their real goal is it's to clear the planet to clear the planet and you know what the good news is we only have to clear about three-quarters of it and just the fact of our being so theta the other fact the other quarter we'll just clear instantly and the ESPYs will crumble and you saw the little Wicked Witch when she got water thrown on her because you mean about that's what will happen to the [ __ ] sp but I said to them I said because now after a while you start feeling like a [ __ ] hey man this ain't like a little mistake that cost me 50 G's you know and you start doing that a couple of thousand [ __ ] times you say hey I'm getting pissed you know that's a lot of money okay and you start getting into that and they talking about all this day and I say where's the money going nobody ever [ __ ] gives you an answer and they've you know we're trying to clear the planet I said babies I want to tell you something I Got News for you there's no [ __ ] way you can't [ __ ] clear Beverly Hills with these prices there's no [ __ ] way it's physically impossible like they say Obama of Clinton can't reach the number there's no way there's not enough money it can't be done so that's a lie there to try to clear any [ __ ] planet and if they are they're going to have to bring the [ __ ] [ __ ] money the price is going to have to go so [ __ ] down I said I'll wait then I'll wait I'll do it next lifetime what if 250 bucks to go clear because I can wait another 40 years you know and it'll save me a million bucks and I'd rather my [ __ ] kid go to private school you know so [ __ ] it our celebrities treated inside Scientology all I know is how I was treated and you know my peers I mean that's why I hung out with I dunno I knew that I know that it's a lot different actually I do only because like this was another question for me like here I was I had Ray mid off who's the head the top auditor on the planet this senior c/s international I had RTC technology technicians whatever people plus and I'm in LA and I had my own auditor the CS the senior CS and then they would all go over my folder then they'd send it to Richard reset flag who's a senior c/s of flag and he go over the floor and they would now long it took me to get a [ __ ] siehst like I do a thing and I'd make an origination like you know I'm not sure I like this my next session would be about a month later because they couldn't [ __ ] handle because there were so many vias on the comm line and so how was I handled I was handled with the best attention ever and I said you know something if I'm if this is the best of the best that's what I was saying to him at the end I said how the [ __ ] that's another thing I said about clear the planet if you are the best [ __ ] in the world and you admitted you [ __ ] the [ __ ] out of me what happens to poor Schmo at Orange County org when you're saying you know just because when you first think well you just need ethics or some [ __ ] thing he's still stuck in some ethics cycle going really free and their buckets because they [ __ ] him up and they said no you need more set checking and he can't afford it or some [ __ ] thing and it's not even the right [ __ ] thing these guys don't know what they're doing they're [ __ ] hoping you know what I mean they're hoping and the [ __ ] crime of the [ __ ] is they're saying aha we're gonna work this out and I'm going to put in a little oregano and the other guy says too much salt and then [ __ ] here's your folder and of course we've got it siehst and ready to go and I'd be like this [ __ ] sucks it's a long [ __ ] item and I your needles floating we'd like to indicated is the wrong item and to go right back to the [ __ ] for another month and meanwhile I've already bought a hundred thousand dollars worth the auditing and and it's more going through this thing and then it's like just talking about some stupid [ __ ] overts to start there because I haven't had a session well I masturbated and I might mean you coming up with who the [ __ ] cares I said you know what I mean I got nothing it's not like I'm [ __ ] killing people or beating my children or something you know what I do you know an internet porn and I don't know you know I was I blew my side got mad at work and you know you got nothing to [ __ ] say and this is this and that will [ __ ] eat the whole coccyx it's just unbelievable celebrities are used heavily for recruiting yeah and they recruit young actors coming to town I see every weekend in backstage West there's NAS up to five or six ads for different workshops that you are you familiar with yeah yeah yeah I gave one yeah they got me to do one ones uh yeah and you have people got interested and they signed up for courses yeah and they use they use people to do that I suppose they're targeting actors that's what I've understood it's it's good public relations for them I suppose or if somebody hits big it's it's thanks to Scientology I know that I know a lot of people who do them and at first they were very reticent to do some of the things say some of the things that they're pressured to do in other words you know Scientology and say that Scientology and that you use the ethics conditions all the time you know in your career and all these kinds of things and but after that yeah but then after a after they've done a couple of them they even start to believe it it's very hard you have to look I mean you know these are decent good people and and they and they it's like man I wanna I mean I don't want to say so many alarming things but I mean it's you know how do people get involved in these destructive relationships just between two people you know there's a lot of people that get knocked around and come back and you know I doubt the person knocked them around on the first date and and it's you know it's it's sad and just looking at that those celebrity you sell a little piece of your soul when you tell that lie but you've got it all justified that you know well it's good people and it's for the church and you know I'm helping the group and that is it and you got it thing and but I'm telling you you know that you're full of it a little bit and you know that if you really look at it it's okay and like in any other universe you know if that came up in session it would be an overt but not there because you're doing because they've got the whole thing - I mean this whole hard sell and all this thing I mean in that what they you know do - virtru - she had actors is one thing what about the little children they get into the sea organisation billionaire contracts you know what's your reaction to the Sea Org and and and the way that Sea Org members are treated as opposed to the celebrity clientele are you aware of some of the things that happen to see ordnance well I mean I again I've heard things and I don't and they seem quite plausible I have never seen anybody been abused I've seen people kind of screamed at but I've never I've never seen that kind of abuse by to me I mean it's let's say you know you hear my story and I got out and I've got some sad tales and maybe I got ripped off for a good chunk of money and this that and the other thing if you look at that as compared to somebody who joins the Sea Org it's not even comparable can you imagine what it would be like to have a person at your beck and call and complete disposal your slave who not only was a slave by by force but by by you know you've got them by the mind not the balls you got them by the mind so they they're in love with you devoted to you to do whatever you want for their entire lifetime okay and you can just get them so they're working let's say I mean just a person working a hundred hours probably is what the average see York works a week I'd say about 80 to 100 hours a week what's the minimum wage on that is you know I mean it's not even minimum wage [ __ ] I mean they build the buildings they they do everything high-tech stuff I mean is it worth at least seventy-five thousand a year so that's it and then you get that for fifty years forty years because they get them when they're teenagers you know and they you know they then they've also hired a dentist who takes care of their teeth they've also hired a you know all these kind of things is part of their organization I mean what is that that's just millions and millions of dollars worth of free labor I mean it's it's it's it's not only that plus your whole life and what do they get in exchange they they believe that they're saving this sector of the galaxy and that's enough for them and they're the few people who have the the ethical fortitude to make that kind of a commitment what's your reaction to the RPF those are the rules of the game but I mean to me what it is is is is more of a way to control the you know people end up there if they're I would think to some degree they feel getting out of control and so what do you do is you put more control over them until you got them back in control and and whether that's physical abuse or mental abuse or both it's uh it's what it is when you're again do you know the you know the ins and outs of Archaea where families would be split up and people couldn't communicate for months or even years they know they don't talk about that much I mean as I got older I mean when I was in a little bit longer and spent more time you know at the upper organizations like gold I I would hear about things like that and find out but they try to keep that stuff away from everybody especially celebrities because it indicates you know the the the company line is that the Sea Org is made up of oaties it's a group of Oh T's okay so for these people to fail and it's meaning that OTS are failing and it's kind of like a one shot clear joining the sea organization and you have the EPF which is the precursor where you get ready and that is supposed to when you're finally posted in the Sea Org the M phenomenon of the EPF which is called the estates project force is which is basically where you run around and do a lot of physical labor and take a couple of courses the end phenomenon of that is supposed to be an OT and which is interesting to me I've many times blown my stack when I've got it I'd had to get in touch with somebody at flag I always had to call the president and and of course they've got a new person answering the telephone at flag and of course Scientology touts itself as the cutting edge in communication whereas they have somebody answering the [ __ ] phone who does not speak English however they are an OT they happen to be an OT from Poland who is now 14 years old and is now the main receptionist for an international [ __ ] hotel and you call you say what the [ __ ] is wrong with this person well they're they're posted and they should be there that it's it's it's you got to get that job done right and if their stats are down I'm sure they're back on the RPF if they hadn't learned to speak English quick enough and that's not that's not an exaggeration insanity so you didn't know that much about what's going on in the RPF no I learned some things online but yeah how are you as public kept away from the other theta that's going on in the real world I mean if there's a you know some really negative story about Scientology in the paper or on TV are you aware of that it's a funny thing like I remember like my wife had seen Ted Koppel interview David Miscavige and she thought that he kind of [ __ ] up you know certainly wasn't very Oh Tia and she talked to Susan Watts and it was the president of CC so you know that and CC and Susan was like it's almost like a gaslighting somebody you know that that expression yeah like which is you know kind of make him seem like there are you crazy oh well you know he was just doing a tone scale drill because you know Ted scumble and you know just kind of to to just not is the thing I think it's called dead aging and and it was an interesting thing I mean I had a similar experience well just seeing Tom Cruise you know acting a little bit in a way that you know could distress a lot of people and they make it into like well this is the greatest you know this is good people just can't handle his level of enthusiasm you know and it's a little okay so that's the company line and you go okay you know with the release of the tongue proves tape and global attention to this they're trying to spin it as a positive that all these people are coming to our site and learning about Scientology and joining right where it's the rest of the rooms that can no conkers is nuts yeah yeah well you know that's the thing though in their own little world it makes sense the funny thing is that is that is a Scientologist talking to Scientology Scientologists I mean that's Tom Cruise who's sitting there I've done these kind of videos being interviewed knowing that his audience is people in the audience of an event that's going to be made of completely of Scientologists and his job is to get some fire under their asses so they can jump out and start behaving more like him and that that's basically what it is so that's that's not that is in their universe you could show that of that that I mean I think that's an unedited tape but you know that's basically him I mean I've been around the guy I've been you know I twinned on him in some courses [ __ ] he and I was I was getting auditing from Marty Rathbun we were on turnabout for a month and a half it was like Tom would go in then I'd go and tamagoyaki good I saw I mean I spent a little bit of time with it and that's him you know he's a very [ __ ] focused guy and he's he's a I mean that's what I see I mean this guy is not a namby-pamby pantywaist he's a total totally dedicated person is my I don't I can't call him a friend or know him even but I can tell you that that's who he is so if it seems crazy that's interesting that seems like the ideal to most Scientologists and that's an interesting comment that's what it is because they showed that as a come on babies get off your asses don't you want to be like Tom and it's interesting that the rest of the world who are not caught up in that Truman Show they see it as well good what's wrong with this guy it's crazy very much to an outsider as though your personality is stripped away and it's replaced your reality rather stripped away and let's replace with Scientology's reality that's what I saw that's that's what I've perceived and the other dangerous thing I mean I watched a little of that that that that Tom Cruise interview and I was I'd seen it before then you know I went to that event you know there was a is event from where he won the freedom medal he the fact that you know it's there's some part in there where he says you know as a Scientologist you just can't let that that that you can't you can't pass that accident because you know you're the only person who can do something about it and he does know that you know and to me that's part of them that's part of what I'm finding is is is destructive in terms of a religion that pulls people apart you know whereas it seems like well no he's really helping people so you could say that but he's also putting himself above it he's a homo Novis he's somewhat condescending he knows he's going to heaven do you understand you know and I find that it makes me it's very worrisome it really is it's not I don't think it bodes well for the the planetary community when you have people secta fiying into these groups that are the only way out it's a it starts to look crazy that's I think where war comes from the you mentioned to having done those videos light crews you've done a lot of Scientology oh [ __ ] man let me tell you something like the main recruiting film for the C organization I spent over well over a year doing that with the up ad gold with with David Miscavige and he got you he and I and one other guy on the final day because we had to finish it for Sea Org day so I if you ever get recruited to join the Sea Org that'll be me talking unless they hear this maybe they'll take me off but we live in a world gone mad where pain and strife create war and human suffering a world rife with drugs yeah it starts like that that's very serious and it's all about the sea organization how it was formed and blah blah blah so apparently it's it's working that's what I've heard they told me but their stats never go down the yeah then I did the last thing I did before I left was they dead to say I don't know what the hell they were calling it but it was this big public push they were going to put these videos in every org so when new public walk in they can learn what is CCR what is the volunteer ministers what is the there's like I must have done 10 or 12 of these things and that's my voice to [ __ ] then of course you know the technology of Scientology is learning how to clear people and and bring them to higher states of spiritual freedom and that takes a lot of learning you have to go to course and part of the course is technical films where they tell a story they're all written by Elrond a burden and some were even directed by it but I'm in Jesus [ __ ] I don't know plenty plenty of them don't have to purge you know I don't know if they'll purge me you know there was a girl who had left and they kept her I mean they redid the film finally there's some of them that it'll take a while to redo I mean they take ourself forever to make a film anyway in minutes she had I did a little half-hour film for them it took months it took months my experience personally and what I've observed for myself is that Scientology is destructive and a ripoff and that it's very very dangerous for your spiritual psychological of mental emotional health and evolution I think it stunts your evolution and joining the Sea Org is the greatest commitment to that and and it requires the greatest amount of commitment from that individual you know there's a different standard for a new public for a Scientology public an OT public and then above that is a Sea Org member and and what's required and expected is far beyond and so the degree to which you have to be completely devoted and to me from my again my perception the more devoted you are the more brainwashed you are the more the less you are yourself the more you are just a Scientologist you know when I was saying earlier you know you become Jason Beghe the Scientologist right Jason Beghe the Sea Org member would be further gone than Jason Beghe the Scientologist and I hear about some of these hardcore top execs that are now these are heavy duties in the sea or 25 years made it to the top leaving I would imagine that the to use your word decompression for them could be in danger of the bends I mean that's some heavy [ __ ] to get that far in I mean like to me right now I'm just getting an inkling of like you take an idea about you know one of the big big concepts in Scientology is overts which are sins that you've committed these are naughty things you've done these are your peccadilloes these are your big big awful secrets that you would never tell anybody these are some mistakes you made they can all add up to over I look at I'm beginning to get a concept and maybe part of the reason why I'm doing this is to try and make up the damage for some of the people I've influenced getting into Scientology because I feel bad I feel uh that was bad that maybe somebody would look to me and say hey he's cooler Oh or you know he's no fool whatever the hell they say and [ __ ] you know that makes me feel bad you know that Sea Org slide show [ __ ] Co B told me that it's got a whole bunch of people into the Sea Org it's working like gangbusters that's so you asked me if I fully really face that without flinching it would be a tough pill to swallow I mean that's that's some heavy [ __ ] I mean if you really are if I really look at that I mean that's that's taking people's lives away that's enslaving somebody's mind and when I was talking about being you know the levels of ethics where somebody it doesn't even know they're out ethics [ __ ] maybe we're talking about people don't even know they're enslaved that's a hard [ __ ] thing dick I mean [ __ ] they can create their own reality where they will show up in and when they're 21 next lifetime and come back that's [ __ ] feasible I'm talking about brainwashed I mean I don't know how far it goes but I mean this is it ain't a joke and and if Scientology is real then something's [ __ ] up because this it ain't delivering what it's promised that's for goddamn sure it is not it says it delivers what it's promised where's the [ __ ] clear you're talking about ot let me meet a [ __ ] clear I would like to meet a [ __ ] clear I'm clear right I'm declared clear as a [ __ ] Bell I went clear twice as a matter of fact okay so I mean you pull out a [ __ ] copy of Dianetics let's hear the definition of clear and then they change it a little bit more and they say no longer has his own reactive mind his own so they can sell the OT levels but my percent might might what I see see now it ain't a joke for me when you start talking about this this is the bad stuff I think from my own experience and from what I've seen I think the further up you go up the bridge the worse you get that's what I see some people are happier but who's happy it's my eye I submit to you that it's not them anymore and I know people that are troubled to death they just finished ot8 and they have migraines migraines a [ __ ] clear doesn't have migrated eight for God's sakes migraines migraines it's an Engram that you can handle and I mean come on how do they and they're still [ __ ] gung-ho and head ot ambassadors and all this [ __ ] and running around trying to do the job of the OT eights who are really the powerhouses and and so they believe that they and so they're happy because I'm [ __ ] doing something to save the planet and they're running around doing this stuff but it's just like that that that theta trap it's just one guy he's stuck in a theta trap and he's unhappy another guy stuck in it he's happy because he's convinced himself and he's just hahaha I mean it's awful it's what's worse I'd rather be depressed than that then and then then oh yeah yeah it's sad I mean so what would you say to people who are um well somebody's still in you know listen you got to make your own move but it's like this this is hopefully this will communicate like I said before I used to smoke that again I had my little son and I never smoked in front of my son but kids are smart and he'd find a cigarette and he'd be going like this worried and he couldn't even walk be and I said I gotta [ __ ] quit you know and I couldn't quit I tried to quit a whole bunch of times I found this thing called the easy way to stop smoking it worked for me okay and it was easy it was very easy it's part of the holes smoking thing according to this thing that worked for me is that it's not as bad as you think it is okay and so for somebody who's in it's as far gone as you as I say you are as you go up it's it's the difference between waking up and being asleep is the difference between waking up and being asleep and it's like sometimes when you're asleep you can still hear the [ __ ] that's going around because you're only half asleep you're not that [ __ ] brainwashed so I'm here to tell you this is what I say wake up and you can hear it there was actually a little process that LRH ran some processes are good okay and he used to run it and he said sometimes you can actually cure somebody of insanity which is what we're talking about and that and the command is in tone 40 which means with no any possibility of there being this that the communication not arriving and making it if the effect intended is saying to the person the insane person who's out you know I'm talking about a [ __ ] you know David Berkowitz is and here's the only command come up to present time come up to present time because you're not there and guess what you are there so come on hello right now there you are there you are that's what I say that person there you are that guy that guy that guy right there not what you're thinking [ __ ] what you're thinking hello right there there it is and it's a no-brainer so it's not that hard it's like it's it's it's it's it really isn't you know me I got out I mean it was a slow process but I know that it says it most of it here's what I'll tell you something this is what I [ __ ] know I realize when you're doubting you already know you're just looking for a bunch because you're stuck in a world of data you're looking for data to make it so you can overlay this data and guess what it's not about data it's about you I mean which is exactly what Scientology says this is because there's the irony it's about you it's not about any [ __ ] data there's no this there's nothing to figure out because you already know you already know beside the fact that all these [ __ ] claims there's just the thing if you have one a little just a little thing all these claims how about a little bit of [ __ ] evidence how about some [ __ ] evidence I'm not talking about prove to me there's God I mean it's just some pretty [ __ ] sweeping things of like well you know you have to take responsibility for you know salvaging beings like this whole xeno thing is insane you know what I mean do people believe it why because LRH said it just like I was talking about the Sykes there's no [ __ ] evidence it's just this just chatter about nothing there's no [ __ ] evidence and they call it Scientology like it's got some [ __ ] hypothesis and some [ __ ] if-then and here's the proof and this is it and there it is and the [ __ ] thing and that's the other thing that I realized it listening all those [ __ ] congress's this [ __ ] listen if you're doing some Scientology some science you know you got to have a bunch of [ __ ] people and you test [ __ ] thing what did he do it on three [ __ ] of his friends wait that's it you're clear now okay let's have a Congress because it worked you changed the wording from come up to present time to come up to present time and time for Congress and it worked on you know Joe so yeah go try that and they [ __ ] had these audience insane I think he believed at some of the time you know what I mean so what would you say to her well if you're I I don't get it that's what I mean I don't get the ones who are like I don't get it I mean I you know like I'd the lower-level people like that I know and in the Sea Org like you know Dave Pettit and stuff like like Dave Dave I can talk to Dave right now Dave you know you got to justify you [ __ ] know that I know that you know and if either you're a liar and you're you know really evil and just want to get up on top and somehow win the thing which I doubt but it's possible but the other side of it you know you know and it's not just my [ __ ] story and you know that too so you know and so I would imagine you know these people that are better you get so justified and that you know like you get into a group I would imagine that they have their own little group and in my opinion just to use more of that nomenclature from Scientology another way to say is that the further up the bridge you get and the further up the Sea Org you get the more pts you get and that you think that pts is I'm feeling shitty or I've got a cold or I broke my leg right you think that's what it is that's it that's a level of pts at least you're aware aware something's wrong when you're sitting there and you're so [ __ ] pts that you think you're [ __ ] saving this sector of the [ __ ] galaxy you know all you can there's I mean it's just I'm you know what can you say either hopefully for your own sake you're just a plain old SP and you want money and power if you actually believe that [ __ ] which I don't because remember you know me talking now you can wake up just like that if you really believe that then you're so far gone I mean that is be the that's that's gone that's gone and I don't believe anybody's that gone you just it's like it's like a guy who has a $500 a day habit you know he started with one toke or whatever the [ __ ] it is it's just more you start eating more and more of this [ __ ] to the point where you believe and you've got all these things because I know if you're that far up in the [ __ ] exact management level you've committed so many [ __ ] overts and justified so many evil [ __ ] deeds you know it I mean a blind man could see it I don't even have to know what it is I can tell that's why I'm so happy Mike Rinder got out and he was the worst piece of PR you guys had because I would look at that guy and you could just tell that guy was he was bad he had done a lot of bad things I mean I just saw it you could tell you know you mean they put him on to defend people of Scientology you put the Dalai Lama on and you look at him and you say there's a sweet guy I don't know what Buddhism is but you can tell that's good Deepak Chopra you know okay he wants a couple of bucks for these he's trying to help him this is a guy who's like yeah I mean he's dark and he was like yeah and it was like this thing it's like [ __ ] thing this is what you would cast as a villain in some cheap [ __ ] b-movie what are you crazy and you know did you believe it I'm sorry I mean he's out I mean I hope he's out that's great but that's what I saw you know that's what I saw you know me personally I look at David Miscavige that's my definition of one one he's good at it you know to lie to people like that to take money to have no sense of responsibility when you rip people off for 100 of millions of dollars and then make them happy about it afterwards you must be giggling arbitraries cancelled are you [ __ ] kidding me I mean that's insane so whatever you know but there's so there's some people right listen the bottom line is some beautiful [ __ ] people in their public and Sea Org great people great great great people you'd be lucky to have a friend like that so but that's the shame of it and that that's the part you know I don't you know maybe I've gone too far because I do not want to hurt somebody's feeling I don't want to shake somebody's universe I'm not here to yeah like right now I'm feeling a little uh only because I don't you know maybe yeah well there's the unsure coded version but it's got a little English on it and I don't my intention is not to put English on any of this I mean I talk in a way that's full of English but I'm talking about like I don't want to I don't have an agenda I don't think I mean I just like most people I guess I want to help and I suppose that's why I got into Scientology that is because I wanted to help and right now I'm trying to help and I know that the Scientologists are trying to help they're just trying to help I think that's what most people are trying to do is they're just trying to help I don't want to be a terrorist about it and shake anybody up and upset anybody I have the the luxury of having gotten into Scientology and after having been in it been out and that's a perspective that those people who are in and are not out do not have

Channel: Mark Bunker

Views: 1,033,382

Rating: 4.8247237 out of 5

Keywords: Scientology, Jason, Beghe, OT3, Dianetics, Hubbard

Id: KHb0BZyF5Ok

Length: 122min 38sec (7358 seconds)

Published: Wed Jun 04 2008

Reddit Comments

[u/[deleted]]

Everyone who gets involved in Scientology has their own unique experience, although Scientology does try to make everything and everyone the same, as indicated by the heavy emphasis on everything being "standard" by which is meant, conforms precisely to the statements of LRH. So, I can see from Jason Beghe's experience how he, like everyone else, was forced to fit into the Scientology mold of Standard Tech, while still struggling to be himself. He mentions that even before Scientology he considered himself to be on a "spiritual journey". I am very leery of anybody's spiritual journey, although of course I myself was on a spiritual journey of sorts, during my own years as a cultist. Scientology as an organization is filled with ruthlessness and abuses of power, but at the same time, everybody is on a spiritual journey. People get sent to the RPF the way Stalin sent people to the gulag, and then in the RPF they still try to make some kind of progress in their spiritual journey, it's the weirdest thing. In the end, spiritual journeys are an invitation to intellectual sloppiness. People on spiritual journeys mistake metaphor for reality or no longer see any difference between the two. So, the history of Jason Beghe is as illustrative as any. All cultists go through struggles.

[u/bloorpdedoop]

Ohmygod I remember when this came out! Jason is a straight-shooter and always tells it like he sees it.

I'll watch this throughout the day today whenever I have breaks. Thanks.

[u/Vanchat]

hilarious bit around 2 hour mark..talking about rinder and how dumb it is to use him as your PR, he looks like an obvious villain in a b movie